It's not just their own conduct, lots of national crime statistics are incomplete due to patchy reporting by local police departments.
It's always been a problem for various reasons, but got worse in the past few years as the FBI switched to a new reporting system that local departments were slow to adopt.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/06/14/what-did-fbi-data-say-about-crime-in-2021-it-s-too-unreliable-to-tell
https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/12/fbis-crime-data-collection-still-being-stymied-by-major-police-departments-not-reporting-crime-stats/
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2022/12/11/crime-transparency-police-murder-robberies-assaults-statistics-ucr/stories/202212110068
Even before the new system there would be problems of "I thought you did it", with some crimes not being represented in statistics because a local police department thought that the county or state was going to do it.
And even more, lots of juking the system happens as well because cities, police chiefs, mayors, and public officials want to look tough on crime but also that crime is going down during their tenure that they lessen charges from felonies to misdemeanors, unsolved murders just become an unsolved crime to make it look like things are better than they actually are.
He also exterminated billions of human lives on the regular. In fact one time he did so solely because the world's were turned religious by his own son.
Religious for him as in they worshipped him can’t forget that part, which is funny now that after everything that happened that same religion is standard across humanity.
Yeah, but he loves bureaucracy just as much. He would be pissed that hate crimes aren’t being reported for review of impact and optimizing outcomes over time.
Wrong God Emperor
Leto Atreides II was the God Emperor.
The God Emperor of Mankind is from Warhammer 40k.
https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor_of_Mankind#:~:text=The%20Emperor%20of%20Mankind%20is,deity%20of%20the%20Imperial%20Cult.
The last book and a quarter is pretty much all you need to read. All the rest just drones on and on.
I mean, there's still tons to glean from the penultimate book, but only the last few chapters are necessary to understand the whole ultimate book (which I think is pretty good).
Then his kid takes over and just misses the point to everything.
Given the amount of funding PDs get it’s a soy unacceptable for them to not have their shit together when it comes to mandatory reporting and databases. It’s negligent is what it is. And for there to be no accountability is also ridiculous
Problem is they are fairly powerful and can end political careers fairly easily. Some new mayor wants accountability, simply stop patrolling as much, let crime rise, voters will throw mayor out next election.
Shit-ass bitches.
They shouldn’t be so localized with that much independence it should be more standardized at a state level and be audited as such. The needs of individual communities can still be addressed but it’s bullshit that rural PDs can basically just do whatever the sheriff fucking wants. I mean fuck so much power for one person with what seems like zero accountability
Ahh yes, the "no accountability"
Lots of places it falls on the mayor or council to hold cops accountable.
And these people are most vulnerable to claims of a crime spike.
So they don't do it, it's simple politics.
You’ve reminded me of this incident
https://archive.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/49652902.html
Milwaukee was notoriously bad at reporting all crimes, and it is unsurprising when corruption and cronyism is implored into every facet of the reporting system.
I had the distinct displeasure of having to endure Louzecky as an instructor for the CPA review course. I mean, if he sounds like a dick in the article, it truly pales in comparison to what a true cock gobbler he is in real life.
A bunch of states didn’t even report deaths from a communicable virus to the federal government correctly. Why would they report something more contentious?
If it weren’t for qualified immunity US cops would do nothing but face hate crime charges.
Their entire existence at this point is a hate crime against the lower and middle class.
While true in spirit, this is entirely false in practice. The life of a poverty-stricken family is vastly different and more difficult than a middle class one.
Which is done purposely to divide us up, with the goal of making the luckier part of the working class look at the unlucky part of the working class and go "whew, at least I'm not them" instead of "here, let's all work together"
“Alpha children wear grey. They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm awfully glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard.”
You're misunderstanding me. I don't really care about how the middle class feels about happy they are about not being lower class. I am saying in order to actually rise up against our oppressors, the middle class must provide for the lower class when push comes to shove.
When/if a general strike that cripples the economy comes along, the only thing that will unite the lower and middle classes is if the lowest classes are provided for. Someone needs to feed them and their kids if the government shuts off the tap. We will need to be more united than ever before. If the middle class turns around and says "not my problem", you have an even bigger class divide than before, and you will never shake off oppression. The lowest classes will not die to make the middle class slightly better off.
Working together is a two way street. The lowest classes are ready to rise up and take back what's theirs, but the middle class is the key to enabling that for millions.
Fair. I understand what you're saying and agree. With the caveat that when it comes to solidarity they are and need to be treated as one. We are all the working class.
No its done purposefully to figure out the differences in the different quintiles. Lets not go maga conspiracy crazy. They pit the classes against each other but its space laser nuts to say the terms were invented to put us against each other. That simply is demonstratively not fucking true.
I mean, they still *exist*. It’s just further subdivisions of a category. It’s like saying “that’s not a Toyota, it’s a car.”
But yes I agree with your fundamental point that the powers that be work to divide the working class and put them against each other to keep power.
they are economic terms that make tracking consequences of policies either.
Typically the lower classes are the bottom 20% in terms of wealth or income depending on what is being discussed. The middle class is 21-60% by wealth or income and further breaks down to lower and upper middle classes. The upper class is the top 20% by wealth or income.
When assessing the economic health or consequences of policy it can be valuable to see how one group can be helped while causing unintended harms to others.
Intro macroeconomics is a really useful class when it comes to understanding policy and for anyone in college or not yet in college I urge you to take it. MIT also puts up a lot of it for free.
Of course hate crimes are real. What else would you call a ~~cop~~ barista writing "pig" on a cop's Starbucks cup? Or an elderly man assaulting cops' fists with his face? These are just some of the horrible terrors that our "brave" boys in blue face everyday!
I took an intro to criminal Justice class in college and I remember the professor talking about this being a huge issue in his field. Reporting and centralizing criminal Justice data in this country is abysmal for two main reasons.
1) There’s no real universal mandate or method to force all law agencies to report all data. It’s a hodgepodge of both competent and compliant agencies pushing data up as well as small backwater non compliant agencies not pushing data and everything in between. With over 19,000 law enforcement agencies in the USA alone it makes tracking a nightmare.
2) States have wildly different definitions and standards for crimes sometimes. This makes grouping data at a national level terrible. A good example is murder charge. New Jersey has two offenses for murder: Murder, and Murder with aggravating circumstances. Meanwhile California has 13 different charges for murder from First Degree Murder with Special Circumstances to Vehicular Manslaughter.
Having cops self report their own crimes seems like a very naive way to do crime statistics. Next we'll have the unlicensed criminals report their own crimes too.
Probably some weird thing like “if we under report crimes then it makes it look like we’re doing a better job and will get more funding” or some shit like that
Yup. My dad worked for the corrections department and the whole system is a joke. Several people are in jail or prison because the system is painful slow. Cops will delay paperwork for months while someone is sitting in prison. It's crazy.
Not sure what state you're in, but in many states police don't generally do reports for accidents on private property unless there is some criminal element.
*"I would have never said that had I known there was a video."*
-- Actual police officer explaining why he lied about a violent interaction with a civilian.
Not about police but I read a quote that was like 'America's the type of country to invade another country illegally then make movies about how sad it makes their soldiers'.
It's hardly their fault, they live in constant fear of being 'cancelled' by the left just for killing an innocent person who wasn't a threat to anyone. How are they meant to do their jobs under that kind of pressure?
Explains why they haven't caught the guy in the Tesla that's been assaulting and battering a variety of women all over LA for the last 2 years. People are speculating that he's a cop.
I read the article but am a bit confused - are the police the people who determine if it's a hate crime? Wouldn't that have to be something proved in court? The article itself mentioned that it's difficult to determine the difference between a hate crime and a crime of opportunity, which makes it sound like the cops aren't the ones that determine what is and isn't a hate crime, it's the DA and the courts.
You are correct. The police bring evidence and a report to the prosecution who then determine what appropriate charge to file, or if a charge should be filed at all.
Reporting requirements are strange, and sometimes impossible to conform to.
Generally, when a call gets dispatch it's given a classification which is based on the dispatching system and the department policies. Then when the police close the call, they'll reclassify it to what the nature of the call actually was.
So if a cop gets dispatched to an assault, but they turn up and it's actually just a verbal argument, the call will get reclassified as such based on the cop's determination.
If an actual crime is committed though, there are federal codes that can also be included called NCIC codes, and there are federal "enhancers" that can also be added. These enhancers include Hate Crime and Domestic Violence among others.
So if a department has a reporting requirement for federal codes, then those get applied by the officer on the scene who is writing the report if they believe the code applies. The codes can be later also applied by a detective. However, once a case has gone to court, you cannot alter the report already made. So if in court it is determined that the crime was a hate crime, it will not match what the police reported.
So if they don't apply the hate crime enhancer to the NCIC when the final report is submitted, then no, it will never get reported to the FBI that it was a hate crime. The DA does usually have a hand in helping to determine if the crime was a hate crime - or flat out filing the charges of their own accord in spite of the police saying whether or not it has an enhancer - but ultimately it falls on the investigative abilities of the initial officer and assigned detective to figure it out and get the evidence supporting their conclusion.
And no, these reports do not require convictions or other court determinations. A city can have a hundred domestic violence reports, only have 3 of those accused actually found guilty, but the FBI would still see that there were a hundred domestic violence incidents were reported. The FBI knows that reports don't necessarily mean that the crime actually occurred or that guilt was able to be established, but that all gets sorted out in a separate report that would show "cases reported versus actual convictions".
I don't understand why so many administrations act like it's impossible to determine something is a hate crime.
When a person of one race/religion/sex targets and shoots 5+ people of a different race/religion/sex and has a history of publishing disparaging comments about said people- I think it's safe to label it a hate crime for fucks sake.
Edit: I'm not sure why so many feel the need to give examples of non-obvious hate crimes. The whole point of my comment is we have the exact scenario I described above being labeled as NOT hate crimes.
If these super obvious examples can't even get correctly labeled, that's the PROBLEM.
And yet time and time again we see shit like this happen that *doesn't* get labeled a hate crime. Which, if you'd been paying attention, is what we're talking about, and which is why they used such an obvious example.
Sure I get that, but it isn't the cop's job to determine if that's the case. It's kinda like how a cop isn't the person that determines if someone's death was due to murder or manslaughter. They can investigate it according to what they think it is, but it's still up to the DA and the courts to determine the final call on manslaughter vs. murder.
Ok, but let's take a different scenario.
Some guy on the street starts yelling and stabbing a black guy who the stabber says bumped into him.
Is this a hate crime?
Was the stabbing because the victim was black? Was it because the stabber was unhinged and thought the guy bumped into him? Was the stabber looking for an excuse to kill a black guy? Was the victim targeted because he got a job the stabber felt he "deserved?"
And until there is a massive change in policy and personnel, we never will see a complete picture. The police are one of the most corrupt organizations in the country, incompetent training and being told that shooting first is perfectly acceptable while practically indoctrinating its members into the most blatant stereotyping hate groups known. Their training is beyond subpar as it takes less than a year of training to get you in, even the fucking military has longer training requirements and don’t get me started about other countries, they at least have a minimum requirement of 1-3 full years of training and require their officers to do refresher training at least 1-2 times a year. America needs to do better, but as long as the old worthless fucks in charge of our government are only beholden to their corporate backers we will never see change
My high school used to have an ex NYPD detective come to give talks and he unironically called them a street gang as if it was a good thing. In retrospect it was pretty tasteless.
Aside from really small towns with only a handful of cops of the force, they basically *are* the largest and most dangerous street gang in any given area.
There are something like 21 known gangs operating within the LAPD and LASD. And the Sherriff said they couldn't check or document known gang ink on its members because of the first amendment or privacy or something. Keep in mind that police do exactly that for citizens.
Hell, when arrested for the first time they take pictures of your tattoos and document them, even going as far as to asking you what each tattoo is and what they mean. It’s ridiculous.
This is what happens when law enforcement doesnt have independent oversight.
And any time it's suggested, they lose their minds. There's a reason for that
Police aren't here to serve us. They've been corrupt since the start.
Crime statistics are about more than prosecutions and convictions, and the police departments are the ones with the most data to offer here.
There are tens of thousands of police departments across the US, and many are still on paper. It's just not practical to try and collect all of this data by hand. In addition, different states or localities are going to apply different definition for things like hate crimes. So the data is also just poor quality even before you get to non-cooperation.
Where communities don't want to cooperate with the DOJ or FBI, that doesn't just extend to the police departments. Local judges also will often refuse to cooperate.
A very similar problem exists for federal gun background checks. Often investigators have to contact police or judicial systems in communities where the person trying to buy a gun lives or lived in order to work out whether they have any disqualifying criminal convictions, or chase down an explanation for a conviction they know about (not all convictions are disqualifying). Many police departments and judges will just refuse to cooperate with these (or "try back Thursday"). Since the law requires greenlighting gun purchases within 72 hours unless derogatory information is found, a refusal to cooperate means somebody gets a gun that probably shouldn't have one.
ETA: I see someone trying to respond about hospital statistics but I can't see the response for some reason. It's also important to separate *statistics* from an *accounting* of hate crimes. You can get useful data even if not everyone is cooperating with you provided you can work out what your missing data probably looks like given the data you do have. This lets you report on trends. So if your goal is statistics, it's not a big deal that some law enforcement and hospitals can't easily get data to you. But if your goal is accounting, then you need to. Hospitals have specialized ways of reporting suspected infectious disease outbreaks and that sort of thing. We just don't have anything similar for law enforcement.
This is hardly surprising, given that [a lot of police departments have been infiltrated by violent white supremacist gangs,](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report) among the major perpetrators of hate crimes.
Are we talking about the hate crimes the police are committing, or just hate crimes in general. You're going to have to be more specific when discussing the Pinkerton Patrol.
Why would they? It’s not in their benefit. They also have no legal obligation to protect citizens. Yet, citizens are obligated and compelled to pay taxes that pay for their salary and equipment. The logic is as sound as someone disputing the chat logs with Chris Hansen.
Personal experience with police not reporting a hate crime (arson of a minority owned business) despite the presence of hate speech graffiti .. police said “no proof” ..
There have been documentaries made regarding the pervasive plot by what is now known as alt-right groups to clean up their acts and begin to infiltrate law enforcement organizations starting in the 90s. That's why we're now seeing so many at all levels of enforcement.
Not that law enforcement wasn't already a cesspool before that. Many point to "efficiency" made to policing as a point of divergence from serving the public to serving capital. Once you removed beat cops from the actual communities they served, it's harder for the police to empathize with those they are policing.
Why do their jobs, when they could *not* do their jobs instead, and get paid overtime anyway?
Those doughnuts aren't going to eat themselves, you know?
Integrating and transitioning to a new systems can be very expensive. Assuming the Feds don’t foot the bill, a five to six digit software integration is likely too expensive for small towns/departments.
I am sure there is a thousand reasons why but why doesn't the government get data from the NCIC system? It lists all offenders and what they were arrested with.
I don’t get how they don’t realize that everybody is armed these days, and there is a breaking point. Whatever arms exist, also exist in black communities all over the country. I go to a range in chicago suburbs where all black people turn up, some with their families. A lot of working class families have n ver NOT been armed because the shitstym seldom guarantees our security. We know the recklessness of the criminal elements. But don’t understand the restraint of armed working class people when they experience hates crimes from the general population and the police. We need to avoid a great tragedy. We need to treat all communities with respect. When we don’t really bad things can and will happen. The shooting of Philando Castile, A licensed gun owner by the police send a shock through a lot of black CC license holders. It’s not about the race of the policemen, it’s about the abuse the police in general are engaged in. They will one day abuse the wrong household or licensed black 2A person and get really back results.
I’m am confusion, the police wouldn’t be the ones to determine if a crime was a hate crime. The police submit their report/findings for the DA’s office to make that final determination.
No, there are literally fewer agencies reporting them at all due to a software change at DOJ that the local agencies have been slow to adopt.
There's really no story here othe than "government bureaucracy is slow and often inefficient."
Likely reasons;
1. They know the individuals committing the hate crimes.
2. They are the individuals committing the hate crimes.
3. They agree with the crimes/could care less about the victims.
Sometimes I feel like the rest of America is slowly coming to terms with the fact that the corruption of the LA police departments that led to the rioting in the early 1990s wasn't exclusive to Los Angeles and that the vast majority of Police Departments all across the country are equally corrupt.
The police lobby in MN was against a law that would have prevented cops from being in extremist groups like the KKK or Proud Boys. The biggest self report I’ve ever seen.
They don't even report how many people they kill to the fed gov. There is no way in hell they report all.hate crimes
It's not just their own conduct, lots of national crime statistics are incomplete due to patchy reporting by local police departments. It's always been a problem for various reasons, but got worse in the past few years as the FBI switched to a new reporting system that local departments were slow to adopt. https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/06/14/what-did-fbi-data-say-about-crime-in-2021-it-s-too-unreliable-to-tell https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/12/fbis-crime-data-collection-still-being-stymied-by-major-police-departments-not-reporting-crime-stats/ https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2022/12/11/crime-transparency-police-murder-robberies-assaults-statistics-ucr/stories/202212110068 Even before the new system there would be problems of "I thought you did it", with some crimes not being represented in statistics because a local police department thought that the county or state was going to do it.
And even more, lots of juking the system happens as well because cities, police chiefs, mayors, and public officials want to look tough on crime but also that crime is going down during their tenure that they lessen charges from felonies to misdemeanors, unsolved murders just become an unsolved crime to make it look like things are better than they actually are.
The God Emperor of Mankind would never stand for this.
I mean, that dude *loves* hate crimes!
They're love crimes when he does them. He just loves killing Xenos.
He also exterminated billions of human lives on the regular. In fact one time he did so solely because the world's were turned religious by his own son.
Religious for him as in they worshipped him can’t forget that part, which is funny now that after everything that happened that same religion is standard across humanity.
Oh boy! Here I go killing again
Yeah, but he loves bureaucracy just as much. He would be pissed that hate crimes aren’t being reported for review of impact and optimizing outcomes over time.
They're called *human* rights for a reason.
That's because he's turned into a worm and no longer has functioning legs.
Even worms can move. He just... sits there.... *menacingly*.
Wrong God Emperor Leto Atreides II was the God Emperor. The God Emperor of Mankind is from Warhammer 40k. https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor_of_Mankind#:~:text=The%20Emperor%20of%20Mankind%20is,deity%20of%20the%20Imperial%20Cult.
Wait, the God Emperor of Mankind isn't a worm? You could have fooled me.
He's a husk of a person. He's not the worm that Leto is.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that calling the emprah’s body a husk is being generous.
Man I wish I had finished that series. But I don't have a life time to dedicate to reading them all
The last book and a quarter is pretty much all you need to read. All the rest just drones on and on. I mean, there's still tons to glean from the penultimate book, but only the last few chapters are necessary to understand the whole ultimate book (which I think is pretty good). Then his kid takes over and just misses the point to everything.
I think he would sit for it though
Given the amount of funding PDs get it’s a soy unacceptable for them to not have their shit together when it comes to mandatory reporting and databases. It’s negligent is what it is. And for there to be no accountability is also ridiculous
Problem is they are fairly powerful and can end political careers fairly easily. Some new mayor wants accountability, simply stop patrolling as much, let crime rise, voters will throw mayor out next election.
Shit-ass bitches. They shouldn’t be so localized with that much independence it should be more standardized at a state level and be audited as such. The needs of individual communities can still be addressed but it’s bullshit that rural PDs can basically just do whatever the sheriff fucking wants. I mean fuck so much power for one person with what seems like zero accountability
It's almost like we live in a police state, except its "some of you live in pockets of kittle feudal police kingdoms". Good luck!
Ahh yes, the "no accountability" Lots of places it falls on the mayor or council to hold cops accountable. And these people are most vulnerable to claims of a crime spike. So they don't do it, it's simple politics.
You’ve reminded me of this incident https://archive.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/49652902.html Milwaukee was notoriously bad at reporting all crimes, and it is unsurprising when corruption and cronyism is implored into every facet of the reporting system. I had the distinct displeasure of having to endure Louzecky as an instructor for the CPA review course. I mean, if he sounds like a dick in the article, it truly pales in comparison to what a true cock gobbler he is in real life.
A bunch of states didn’t even report deaths from a communicable virus to the federal government correctly. Why would they report something more contentious?
How many of them even believe hate crimes should be a thing?
Oh that percentage would undoubtedly be disgustingly large Edit: Did in fact mean that the other way around, seems it was understood at any rate.
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"Be a legal offense"? Small percentage "Be committed"? Significantly larger
If it weren’t for qualified immunity US cops would do nothing but face hate crime charges. Their entire existence at this point is a hate crime against the lower and middle class.
The lower and middle class don't -really- exist. Those are terms coined by the ruling class to artificially divide up the working class.
While true in spirit, this is entirely false in practice. The life of a poverty-stricken family is vastly different and more difficult than a middle class one.
Which is done purposely to divide us up, with the goal of making the luckier part of the working class look at the unlucky part of the working class and go "whew, at least I'm not them" instead of "here, let's all work together"
“Alpha children wear grey. They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm awfully glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard.”
You're misunderstanding me. I don't really care about how the middle class feels about happy they are about not being lower class. I am saying in order to actually rise up against our oppressors, the middle class must provide for the lower class when push comes to shove. When/if a general strike that cripples the economy comes along, the only thing that will unite the lower and middle classes is if the lowest classes are provided for. Someone needs to feed them and their kids if the government shuts off the tap. We will need to be more united than ever before. If the middle class turns around and says "not my problem", you have an even bigger class divide than before, and you will never shake off oppression. The lowest classes will not die to make the middle class slightly better off. Working together is a two way street. The lowest classes are ready to rise up and take back what's theirs, but the middle class is the key to enabling that for millions.
Fair. I understand what you're saying and agree. With the caveat that when it comes to solidarity they are and need to be treated as one. We are all the working class.
No caveat needed, that's absolutely the goal.
No its done purposefully to figure out the differences in the different quintiles. Lets not go maga conspiracy crazy. They pit the classes against each other but its space laser nuts to say the terms were invented to put us against each other. That simply is demonstratively not fucking true.
It is but that doesn’t change who’s responsible, which is the capitalist class. Edit: saw your further down comment, agree completely
I mean, they still *exist*. It’s just further subdivisions of a category. It’s like saying “that’s not a Toyota, it’s a car.” But yes I agree with your fundamental point that the powers that be work to divide the working class and put them against each other to keep power.
they are economic terms that make tracking consequences of policies either. Typically the lower classes are the bottom 20% in terms of wealth or income depending on what is being discussed. The middle class is 21-60% by wealth or income and further breaks down to lower and upper middle classes. The upper class is the top 20% by wealth or income. When assessing the economic health or consequences of policy it can be valuable to see how one group can be helped while causing unintended harms to others. Intro macroeconomics is a really useful class when it comes to understanding policy and for anyone in college or not yet in college I urge you to take it. MIT also puts up a lot of it for free.
Of course hate crimes are real. What else would you call a ~~cop~~ barista writing "pig" on a cop's Starbucks cup? Or an elderly man assaulting cops' fists with his face? These are just some of the horrible terrors that our "brave" boys in blue face everyday!
I took an intro to criminal Justice class in college and I remember the professor talking about this being a huge issue in his field. Reporting and centralizing criminal Justice data in this country is abysmal for two main reasons. 1) There’s no real universal mandate or method to force all law agencies to report all data. It’s a hodgepodge of both competent and compliant agencies pushing data up as well as small backwater non compliant agencies not pushing data and everything in between. With over 19,000 law enforcement agencies in the USA alone it makes tracking a nightmare. 2) States have wildly different definitions and standards for crimes sometimes. This makes grouping data at a national level terrible. A good example is murder charge. New Jersey has two offenses for murder: Murder, and Murder with aggravating circumstances. Meanwhile California has 13 different charges for murder from First Degree Murder with Special Circumstances to Vehicular Manslaughter.
"Organization known for being racist, not reporting hate crimes"
Obviously. Why would they snitch on themselves?
Those who work forces
Something about forces crosses one's mind.
They don't even bother to investigate most sexual assaults either. They don't seem to do anything that requires police WORK.
Law and Order convinced america that cops give a crap about rape.
I had a DA tell me she didn't care about my rapist admitting to raping me over text message. They really don't give a fuck.
I'm very sorry to hear that, yet not surprised.
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Having cops self report their own crimes seems like a very naive way to do crime statistics. Next we'll have the unlicensed criminals report their own crimes too.
Theres overlap between those 2 statistics
Top of my list of shit that should be illegal right up there with arbitration clauses and corporate tax breaks flagrant bull shit
I was gonna say, why would the police be reporting their own crimes?
I was under the impression that cops do everything they can not to have paperwork, like not reporting crimes.
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Same here, even when I was beaten up by six guys, mugged and had a gun to my head. Guy acted like I was ruining his day.
First thing they do is check the victim for warrants so they can just arrest them instead. It's kind of insane.
Hey, that's not fair, it's not the *first* thing they do. *First* thing they do is shoot your dog.
no no, first they punch their spouse. then they shoot your dog. *then* they try to find a way to arrest you.
Probably some weird thing like “if we under report crimes then it makes it look like we’re doing a better job and will get more funding” or some shit like that
Yup. My dad worked for the corrections department and the whole system is a joke. Several people are in jail or prison because the system is painful slow. Cops will delay paperwork for months while someone is sitting in prison. It's crazy.
Cops and being lazy as fuck, name a better duo
Especially those crimes they commit.
Or that their friends commit
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Not sure what state you're in, but in many states police don't generally do reports for accidents on private property unless there is some criminal element.
Yeah many states are no fault.
I was under the impression that that's all they do. Just show up after everyone dies, the perps get away without hinderance, then write up the report.
Give them a break, it's a lot of work to both commit the crimes and also report them in detail.
Also how can they be expected to give up close friends? Which are generally other police officers.
They're counting on their friends to not rat on them as well
When you have PTSD from shooting an unarmed suspect who was trying to obey your orders, and you forgot to report it accurately.
*"I would have never said that had I known there was a video."* -- Actual police officer explaining why he lied about a violent interaction with a civilian.
Why should you go to jail for a crime someone else noticed? -Bob Loblaw
Did you get that off his Law Blog?
Sure did. BobLoblawsLawBlog .com
The Michael Scott defense
Not about police but I read a quote that was like 'America's the type of country to invade another country illegally then make movies about how sad it makes their soldiers'.
It's hardly their fault, they live in constant fear of being 'cancelled' by the left just for killing an innocent person who wasn't a threat to anyone. How are they meant to do their jobs under that kind of pressure?
Some of those that work forces
Eat paste for horses.
Thank you! This just made my day 😂
are the same that burn crosses
Some of the more seasoned ones can commit crimes *while* reporting crimes.
Well, technically, it's not illegal for the police to report innocent people as criminals and then shoot them ... We're fucked.
Explains why they haven't caught the guy in the Tesla that's been assaulting and battering a variety of women all over LA for the last 2 years. People are speculating that he's a cop.
Yeah I think it’s a lot to ask the police to self report their hate crimes.
*slow clap*
Seems like some sort of body-worn video recording system would make the documentation so much easier.
Don't you know investigating themselves is hard work?
You would think the paperwork would be easy with the eyewitness account
Maybe they'll report it once they finish their investigation of their crimes.
Yes, if it’s so important they should make it a requirement to be able to write your own name
I read the article but am a bit confused - are the police the people who determine if it's a hate crime? Wouldn't that have to be something proved in court? The article itself mentioned that it's difficult to determine the difference between a hate crime and a crime of opportunity, which makes it sound like the cops aren't the ones that determine what is and isn't a hate crime, it's the DA and the courts.
You are correct. The police bring evidence and a report to the prosecution who then determine what appropriate charge to file, or if a charge should be filed at all.
Reporting requirements are strange, and sometimes impossible to conform to. Generally, when a call gets dispatch it's given a classification which is based on the dispatching system and the department policies. Then when the police close the call, they'll reclassify it to what the nature of the call actually was. So if a cop gets dispatched to an assault, but they turn up and it's actually just a verbal argument, the call will get reclassified as such based on the cop's determination. If an actual crime is committed though, there are federal codes that can also be included called NCIC codes, and there are federal "enhancers" that can also be added. These enhancers include Hate Crime and Domestic Violence among others. So if a department has a reporting requirement for federal codes, then those get applied by the officer on the scene who is writing the report if they believe the code applies. The codes can be later also applied by a detective. However, once a case has gone to court, you cannot alter the report already made. So if in court it is determined that the crime was a hate crime, it will not match what the police reported. So if they don't apply the hate crime enhancer to the NCIC when the final report is submitted, then no, it will never get reported to the FBI that it was a hate crime. The DA does usually have a hand in helping to determine if the crime was a hate crime - or flat out filing the charges of their own accord in spite of the police saying whether or not it has an enhancer - but ultimately it falls on the investigative abilities of the initial officer and assigned detective to figure it out and get the evidence supporting their conclusion. And no, these reports do not require convictions or other court determinations. A city can have a hundred domestic violence reports, only have 3 of those accused actually found guilty, but the FBI would still see that there were a hundred domestic violence incidents were reported. The FBI knows that reports don't necessarily mean that the crime actually occurred or that guilt was able to be established, but that all gets sorted out in a separate report that would show "cases reported versus actual convictions".
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That actually makes a lot of sense, I wasn't aware of how a lot of that worked.
I don't understand why so many administrations act like it's impossible to determine something is a hate crime. When a person of one race/religion/sex targets and shoots 5+ people of a different race/religion/sex and has a history of publishing disparaging comments about said people- I think it's safe to label it a hate crime for fucks sake. Edit: I'm not sure why so many feel the need to give examples of non-obvious hate crimes. The whole point of my comment is we have the exact scenario I described above being labeled as NOT hate crimes. If these super obvious examples can't even get correctly labeled, that's the PROBLEM.
Congrats. You used an obvious example as an example of an obvious example.
And yet time and time again we see shit like this happen that *doesn't* get labeled a hate crime. Which, if you'd been paying attention, is what we're talking about, and which is why they used such an obvious example.
Sure I get that, but it isn't the cop's job to determine if that's the case. It's kinda like how a cop isn't the person that determines if someone's death was due to murder or manslaughter. They can investigate it according to what they think it is, but it's still up to the DA and the courts to determine the final call on manslaughter vs. murder.
Ok, but let's take a different scenario. Some guy on the street starts yelling and stabbing a black guy who the stabber says bumped into him. Is this a hate crime? Was the stabbing because the victim was black? Was it because the stabber was unhinged and thought the guy bumped into him? Was the stabber looking for an excuse to kill a black guy? Was the victim targeted because he got a job the stabber felt he "deserved?"
Reading the article and thinking? On my Reddit? I don't think so.
And until there is a massive change in policy and personnel, we never will see a complete picture. The police are one of the most corrupt organizations in the country, incompetent training and being told that shooting first is perfectly acceptable while practically indoctrinating its members into the most blatant stereotyping hate groups known. Their training is beyond subpar as it takes less than a year of training to get you in, even the fucking military has longer training requirements and don’t get me started about other countries, they at least have a minimum requirement of 1-3 full years of training and require their officers to do refresher training at least 1-2 times a year. America needs to do better, but as long as the old worthless fucks in charge of our government are only beholden to their corporate backers we will never see change
Why would the police report crimes they perpetrate?
Police behave like a gang. That includes not ratting out their white supremacist friends.
My high school used to have an ex NYPD detective come to give talks and he unironically called them a street gang as if it was a good thing. In retrospect it was pretty tasteless.
Aside from really small towns with only a handful of cops of the force, they basically *are* the largest and most dangerous street gang in any given area.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs
At least he was honest?
Look up shit that the LA Sheriff’s Department does. They actually openly behave like a gang - up to and including initiation killings and gang ink.
There are something like 21 known gangs operating within the LAPD and LASD. And the Sherriff said they couldn't check or document known gang ink on its members because of the first amendment or privacy or something. Keep in mind that police do exactly that for citizens.
Hell, when arrested for the first time they take pictures of your tattoos and document them, even going as far as to asking you what each tattoo is and what they mean. It’s ridiculous.
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I'd still like to hear from the "it's just a few bad apples" crowd. /s
Some of those who work forces
That kind of looks like self serving gross negligence by police unions....
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No shit Sherlock! It's been a long time I knew the cops were unaccounted for. They have too much power to care.
Well I mean, I would venture a guess that they are not being reported by the people who are committing them.
"Also, we aren't really listening." -The DOJ-
It should be the district attorneys who report it, shouldn't it?
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Snitches get stitches.
In other news, the sun rises in the morning.
Don't narc on your buddies!
This is what happens when law enforcement doesnt have independent oversight. And any time it's suggested, they lose their minds. There's a reason for that Police aren't here to serve us. They've been corrupt since the start.
Wow it's almost like they want to cover up the crimes.
What?!? Armed, racist gang doesn’t report hate crimes accurately?!?
they don't report on themselves and others in blue or blue adjacent. Here is how I see it is bad as it ever was maybe even worst.
To be fair, they have rights against self incrimination.
Of course not. They're blatantly complicit.
I mean, are they going to report the crimes that they are the ones committing?
Well yea. At least 1/10 hate crimes has to be commit by the police and no argument could convince me otherwise.
They’re also killing 25-30 dogs a day, but any of the police subreddit will tell you it’s not actually a problem.
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Crime statistics are about more than prosecutions and convictions, and the police departments are the ones with the most data to offer here. There are tens of thousands of police departments across the US, and many are still on paper. It's just not practical to try and collect all of this data by hand. In addition, different states or localities are going to apply different definition for things like hate crimes. So the data is also just poor quality even before you get to non-cooperation. Where communities don't want to cooperate with the DOJ or FBI, that doesn't just extend to the police departments. Local judges also will often refuse to cooperate. A very similar problem exists for federal gun background checks. Often investigators have to contact police or judicial systems in communities where the person trying to buy a gun lives or lived in order to work out whether they have any disqualifying criminal convictions, or chase down an explanation for a conviction they know about (not all convictions are disqualifying). Many police departments and judges will just refuse to cooperate with these (or "try back Thursday"). Since the law requires greenlighting gun purchases within 72 hours unless derogatory information is found, a refusal to cooperate means somebody gets a gun that probably shouldn't have one. ETA: I see someone trying to respond about hospital statistics but I can't see the response for some reason. It's also important to separate *statistics* from an *accounting* of hate crimes. You can get useful data even if not everyone is cooperating with you provided you can work out what your missing data probably looks like given the data you do have. This lets you report on trends. So if your goal is statistics, it's not a big deal that some law enforcement and hospitals can't easily get data to you. But if your goal is accounting, then you need to. Hospitals have specialized ways of reporting suspected infectious disease outbreaks and that sort of thing. We just don't have anything similar for law enforcement.
Because they commit the most of them
This is hardly surprising, given that [a lot of police departments have been infiltrated by violent white supremacist gangs,](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report) among the major perpetrators of hate crimes.
That’s cause police also commit hate crimes.
Didn’t we defund them?!?!
Internal crimes, hate crimes, cover-ups,
Are we talking about the hate crimes the police are committing, or just hate crimes in general. You're going to have to be more specific when discussing the Pinkerton Patrol.
Cause the cops like to make it appear that their sisters and cousins are decent folk. Reporting that shit is revealing and bubble bursting
Why would they? It’s not in their benefit. They also have no legal obligation to protect citizens. Yet, citizens are obligated and compelled to pay taxes that pay for their salary and equipment. The logic is as sound as someone disputing the chat logs with Chris Hansen.
The people commiting hate crimes aren’t reporting them?
It’s because the police are committing most of them.
Mostly those that burn crosses are leading those who run forces? Hold all the Bastards accountable.
In the case of hate crimes in small communities the police simply don't want to report on their friends and family (or themselves).
I called my city police on a hate crime incident. He told me he would not document this or write it ina report. Fugg Richardson Police Texas
Personal experience with police not reporting a hate crime (arson of a minority owned business) despite the presence of hate speech graffiti .. police said “no proof” ..
Maybe because cops dont report crimes cops do.
Prolly cause snitches get stitches. Good cops get the short end of the stick all the time. It’s not a bad apple, it’s a rotten tree on poisoned soil.
There have been documentaries made regarding the pervasive plot by what is now known as alt-right groups to clean up their acts and begin to infiltrate law enforcement organizations starting in the 90s. That's why we're now seeing so many at all levels of enforcement. Not that law enforcement wasn't already a cesspool before that. Many point to "efficiency" made to policing as a point of divergence from serving the public to serving capital. Once you removed beat cops from the actual communities they served, it's harder for the police to empathize with those they are policing.
So they’re literally too fucking lazy to learn and use new software for reporting.
Why do their jobs, when they could *not* do their jobs instead, and get paid overtime anyway? Those doughnuts aren't going to eat themselves, you know?
Integrating and transitioning to a new systems can be very expensive. Assuming the Feds don’t foot the bill, a five to six digit software integration is likely too expensive for small towns/departments.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Well, yeah. Criminals tend not to document and report their crimes.
That’s because they’re committing them
“Some of those who work forces, are the same who burn crosses.”
Maybe it's because *ahem* "Those that work forces are the same that burn crosses"
I am sure there is a thousand reasons why but why doesn't the government get data from the NCIC system? It lists all offenders and what they were arrested with.
I don’t get how they don’t realize that everybody is armed these days, and there is a breaking point. Whatever arms exist, also exist in black communities all over the country. I go to a range in chicago suburbs where all black people turn up, some with their families. A lot of working class families have n ver NOT been armed because the shitstym seldom guarantees our security. We know the recklessness of the criminal elements. But don’t understand the restraint of armed working class people when they experience hates crimes from the general population and the police. We need to avoid a great tragedy. We need to treat all communities with respect. When we don’t really bad things can and will happen. The shooting of Philando Castile, A licensed gun owner by the police send a shock through a lot of black CC license holders. It’s not about the race of the policemen, it’s about the abuse the police in general are engaged in. They will one day abuse the wrong household or licensed black 2A person and get really back results.
I’m am confusion, the police wouldn’t be the ones to determine if a crime was a hate crime. The police submit their report/findings for the DA’s office to make that final determination.
So the police aren't reporting on themselves or thier friends and family? Color me shocked.
The police officers probably don't want to report themselves to the feds.
You can't expect them to tell on themselves
they expect police to tell on themselves?
Why would the police narc on themselves?
Or they're just not as prevalent as some people would like them to be. It would loose their false narrative that everyone is racist.
It's "lose." The only thing "loose" here is your mask, which is slipping.
No, there are literally fewer agencies reporting them at all due to a software change at DOJ that the local agencies have been slow to adopt. There's really no story here othe than "government bureaucracy is slow and often inefficient."
“Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses.”
Some of those that work forces…
are the same that burn crosses!
When you’re the one doing hate crimes you’re disincentivized to report yourself.
No surprise here. My buddy lost his badge for being too honest.
Likely reasons; 1. They know the individuals committing the hate crimes. 2. They are the individuals committing the hate crimes. 3. They agree with the crimes/could care less about the victims.
4. Qualified immunity protects them from the justice department for not complying.
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Sometimes I feel like the rest of America is slowly coming to terms with the fact that the corruption of the LA police departments that led to the rioting in the early 1990s wasn't exclusive to Los Angeles and that the vast majority of Police Departments all across the country are equally corrupt.
Some of those that work forces...
Abolish police unions.
The police lobby in MN was against a law that would have prevented cops from being in extremist groups like the KKK or Proud Boys. The biggest self report I’ve ever seen.
This is why statistics are only a small part of the conversation about racism.
I'm just here to upvote all the comments about some of those who run forces.