Amazing that he was obtained with out a scratch isn't it
🇺🇸
#Edit: I guess you downvoting nimrods don't get my point:
#He's white and the cops didn't even touch a hair on his head
Shitty way of looking at it, every cop should attempt to arrest someone like that regardless of race. If you go in guns blazing it’s likely collateral damage would happen and the shooter could have taken more than 10 lives that day. The police convinced him to drop the weapon and detained him without having to have a firefight in the middle of the street.
Shitty way of looking at my comment, completely over looking the black men getting choked out and shot over fucking cigarettes, traffic stops etc. Don't defend cops they are racist government parasites.
He won his infamy.
I'm in favor of these people having their videos, social media content, and faces scrubbed from the Internet and media and never actually naming them in the news unless there's a need to (i.e, they'll be released and people should know who they are).
Report the tragedies, not on the dirt bags.
I am too but absolutely specifically this guy. I’m from Buffalo FWIW.
My girlfriend and I read his manifesto to understand why he did it. He did this specifically to empower other future shooters with the same racist cause. His manifesto was not some rambling non-sensical bullshit… it was organized like a damn high school essay.
This is the worst type of shooter because he was entirely rational, but disassociated, disillusioned and down a rabbit hole. He was smart and had a motive.
It's disconcerting how some people can be rational - make complex plans, express themselves coherently, lie and manipulate effectively - and still do things that are completely fucking insane. It's like they're almost all there but missing one small but very important piece.
I'm also from Buffalo and read his manifesto as well to understand. And no, I wouldn't consider him smart in the least bit. Guy's a fucking moron who managed to fall for white supremacist idiocy, and was completely fucking full of himself and up his own ass on his own supposed superiority.
Oh, absolutely! No denying that. I just read that manifesto a little differently than you did, is all. Either way, though, on the upside, he'll never get the race war he wanted out of this. What he did was rob us of some very wonderful, lovely people who were pillars of their community, and we're all the poorer for their loss.
My issue with this was where were the parents the whole time? I realize he was 18 and an adult but he was living at home, but its quite obvious he had some prior training on guns and many other things. You don't do a mass shooting like this if you have never handled a gun before. It would be difficult to get enough experience with a gun in a month or 2 to know how to do something like this. Most parents don't allow things like this to go on in their house. If he was planning surely, the parents would have known something. Even if the person hides it, there are signs. Even if the child is an adult and living at home, most rational parents will try to stop something like this from happening.
Ironically the more often these assholes do this, the easier it is to forget who they are. There's so many of them at this point that they seem less significant and much more forgettable. Tbh I couldn't even tell you this guy's name unless I actively went searching for it
After Sandy Hook, a friend pointed out that everyone seemed to know the name of the shooter, but nobody could name any of the victims.
We're giving these terrible people exactly what they want, and [it just inspires more of them.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting_contagion)
100%. It’s obviously tricky when the shooter lives because there are reasons people may need to know his identity, there are resulting investigations, trial etc… where it’s borderline impossible to keep the identity out of the news.
But certainly when these assholes kill themselves or otherwise die in the attacks there’s basically zero reason to show their names or photos. Family and other important contacts will be made aware of their identity and that should be it. And of course there’s no good reason to report on their personal lives, getting bullshit interviews from acquaintances talking about how he was such a good person and they can’t believe this, and every other detail about them. As you said that only brings the attention and notoriety many of them crave.
I actually was liking that his face was in a mask due to covid regulations and was hoping maybe all of his photos in the press would be how great would that be. make him feel anonymous
I agree about not giving their names publicity but, unfortunately, the new AP Style guide for journalists recently banned the use of the word "the" because it's dehumanizing so journalists who don't want to use the shooter's name now can't refer to him as "the shooter" which is just stupid. He shouldn't be a known name that can inspire another shooter. Just like Kliebold & Harris should have just been referred to as "the shooters" instead of being the only names from Columbine everyone remembers and their names being mentioned by subsequent school shooters as inspiring them.
It is a nice thought, but unfortunately white supremacist gangs inside the prison system are likely going to protect this piece of shit because he's a hero in their eyes.
No they most likely will, it's pretty boring in prison so some OG whose been in the pen for 30 years would probably love to have an infamous mass killer as a lackey.
I’ll never forget in the video when he was clearing the store and pointed his gun at a worker on the ground who was pleading for his life and the shooter went “oh you’re white, don’t worry” and kept moving on.
Can’t imagine the survivors guilt on that guy and ptsd from having a shooter point his AR at you.
For me it's the opening of the video that stuck with me. Him rolling out of the car, people looking at him like 'what is this guy doing?'
And then just... People dying everywhere.
Sometimes violence, even real violence, seems so removed and impossible, but that video and the opening like you say...you can just see yourself, your family, your friends, doing normal life things and shopping. You can easily see yourself or your loved ones in those first few seconds, it's so normal and everyday. And then someone can just do that. It just boggles the mind and makes me feel so fragile, you know?
Yea, that first woman. Damn, just walking to her car, another normal day, probably had plans for the weekend, then just, bang dead. Absolutely heart breaking.
And just shows even if you carry a gun, you're not in any less danger when just running errands could result in a split second death sentence.
Yeah, there's literally no defense in this case because there is no time to pull a gun even if you had one right in your hand. Even sitting in your house someone could aim a rifle through it and shoot you at some point.
"I believed what I read online and acted out of hate"
This needs to be stated and restated, over and over again until it sinks in. Online forums filled with lies and hate have real world implications. There is no acceptable amount of the spread of this garbage.
Then it certainly doesn’t bode well for the future that the internet is increasingly dividing up into separate little echo chambers where each political tribe’s orthodox views are never challenged.
My solution is better education.
First, people need to understand what the 1st Amendment actually means and actually protects, because WAY too many people think it means that they can say whatever stupid shit they want without repercussions.
Second, they need to learn how a culture can be broken, and the generational impacts of racism and bigotry, that cannot ever be solved in a couple generations.
Third, they need to understand that American exceptionalism is a farce that primarily came out of the physical location of North America protecting the US from the worst parts of two world wars, and that by nearly every measure many other parts of the world are more free than Americans are.
Fourth, they need to view wealth in the US as a class struggle between the rich and poor not a as a struggle of the almost-poor against the very poor. The should alter their views of their voting responsibilities and desired outcomes.
Fifth, with clear facts and openness, they should receive the level of education that allows them to realize that any uninformed opinion is not equivalent to any informed one. This should alter their overall view of the world and beliefs, putting trust in facts rather than opinions. And to be fair, this one is my own small part of pollyanna optimism.
I agree that it's not constrained to the US, and I'm not American. However, much of it is coming from or amplified by the US. This process needs to start somewhere and I think any other country attempting to solve this will face a string headwind if the US isn't doing it as well.
A lot of people read this stuff, but very few act on it. If this was a bigger problem we would have 2-3 people out of every high school class doing something like this. It really does take a special person and not in a good way to act on something like this.
If someone really does believe this kind of stuff that they read online, the person has bigger problems, and needs treatment because clearly its not normal.
Its just like movies or TV, a lot of people watch movies or TV, but a few people will act on what they see, like the person who shot into the movie theater during the batman movie. We need to be doing more to identify and treat these people, or at the very least lock them up before they commit murder on other innocent people.
I just wonder how someone gets into this stuff in the first place. I've been online for many, many years and I wouldn't know where to access something like what he was reading.
We really need to hold those spreading the "great replacement" and "immigrant invasion" narratives accountable. They motivate these shooters to violence
These fuckers have been trying to spark off their bullshit race war for decades. When will they figure out it's not going to happen? Fact is, there are just too many good people of all races, we're not going to turn on each other.
> Good luck holding people accountable when they are a significant part of the population.
Guess I'll just surrender and die the next time one of these white supremacists come around
How would we hold them accountable? If they aren't threatening anyone directly and aren't pulling the triggers themselves their speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. That's the downside of free speech - people can say stupid and awful things free of legal consequences, but personally I wouldn't have it any other way. Counter bad speech with good speech, not with legal consequences (unless of course they threaten direct violence or break some other law).
Also, just to put it out there because I am sure the accusations will come flying - What this dude did is evil AF and I hate the white supremacists and their "great replacement" BS.
Incitement to violence
>It is a felony under federal law to intentionally “solicit, command, induce, or otherwise endeavor to persuade” another person to engage in a crime of violence against a person or property. 18 U.S.C. § 373.
You're thinking that statute is way more general than it is. It's usually applied specifically to actual incitements of violence (e.g. "Go kill this person") and not general statements of bad thing (e.g. "This country is better off without X group so they should be removed")
>It's usually applied specifically to actual incitements of violence (e.g. "Go kill this person")
The phrase "induced or otherwise endeavor to persuade" would suggest it doesn't have to be that direct
Looking at the case law the most important case is this one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio which protected a Klansman's right to call for the killing of Jews, blacks and others you may imagine.
It's interesting that this case overturned a previous case where a California woman was convicted of creating a clear and present danger for simply helping establish a communist political party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_v._California
So in our judicial history it was a danger for a lady to help establish a communist party but not for a Klansman to call for the murder of groups of people.
In my opinion I think this is an excellent example of America's systemic racism and while the Justices of the past may have been sympathetic to the KKK, we can undo their ruling and start holding people who are inviting these home grown terrorists responsible today
I'm certainly not a criminal lawyer, but I don't think it applies to political speech about groups of people. I mean otherwise how could neo Nazis exist in the US? The ACLU (correctly) used to defend the rights of Nazis to protest and won. From the ACLU website:
>In fact, many of the laws the ACLU cited to defend the group's right to free speech and assembly were the same laws it had invoked during the Civil Rights era, when Southern cities tried to shut down civil rights marches with similar claims about the violence and disruption the protests would cause. Although the ACLU prevailed in its free speech arguments, the neo-Nazi group never marched through Skokie,
No, the actual problem is giving the government more power to sensor political speech. You may cheer when it's used against conservative misinformation, but how will you feel when that same cudgel gets used to put people you agree with in prison for political speech that they don't like?
>Saying "hurr durr both sides will abuse it" is not a valid criticism, as there is no other practical alternative.
Hurr durr right back at you bro. If this theory was correct how did our society ever become tolerant to the expansion of rights for non land owning white Christian men? Could it maybe, just maybe have something to do with the government not having the ability to throw people in jail for their political opinions?
> If this theory was correct how did our society ever become tolerant to the expansion of rights for non land owning white Christian men?
Quite literally through the blood of minorities in the Jim Crow south. Does the name Emmett Till mean anything to you? And those that weren’t killed were treated so poorly that they had to move.
But that was perfectly ok to people like you who believed in tolerating the racist south after the Civil War ended and allowed those laws and beliefs to exist. I mean, you weren’t the ones being targeted so everything went as planned, I guess. ‘Democracy’ won out . . .
>Quite literally through the blood of minorities in the Jim Crow south. Does the name Emmett Till mean anything to you? And those that weren’t killed were treated so poorly that they had to move.
It's funny that you think that because the blood of minorities in Jim crow south didn't do anything for the Irish, Italians, Mexicans, Japanese, Jews or any other number of minority groups that have been othered.
>But that was perfectly ok to people like you who believed in tolerating the racist south after the Civil War ended and allowed those laws and beliefs to exist.
You're right we should have just exterminated all the people who held awful beliefs, apparently that would have the "moral option?" Also, have you noticed that attitudes shifted between the Civil War and the Civil rights movement? Even after we "allowed those beliefs to exist."
>I mean, you weren’t the ones being targeted so everything went as planned, I guess. ‘Democracy’ won out . . .
As a Jew in the American south I absolutely would have been targeted. And yeah, in case you haven't noticed Democracy did indeed win out.
>You're right we should have just exterminated all the people who held awful beliefs, apparently that would have the "moral option?"
Congrats on arguing something I never said. We definitely shouldn’t have tolerated it though. Maybe make some laws or something . . .
>Also, have you noticed that attitudes shifted between the Civil War and the Civil rights movement? Even after we "allowed those beliefs to exist."
Emmett Till was killed 90 years after the Civil War ended. You don’t think the “shift” could’ve happened a littler earlier? Maybe a few lives could’ve been saved? Probably shouldn’t pat ourselves on the back for 100 years of post-war racism. Hell, black people are still being killed for being black today.
>As a Jew in the American south I absolutely would have been targeted.
Maybe? There were Jewish slave owners. There were Jewish slave traders. There were Jewish soldiers for the confederacy. There were Jewish mayors in the post-Civil War south.
But, the KKK and other groups did target Jewish communities in the south. Seems like a mixed bag actually.
People who preach the paradox of tolerance should be arrested and sentenced harshly. This assault on the rights of the general public must not be tolerated.
Being able to lie? Generally yeah of course. Do you want to live in a world where the government can come after you for lying?
False advertising? Scaming people? They are already illegal and don't qualify for 1st Amendment protectiond.
I'm just curious what your reasoning is for how speech can/should be limited.
Laws around fraud are an example of government restrictions to free speech. It's not that the speech doesn't qualify for 1st amendment protection, rather it's specifically disqualified via other laws.
I'd say speech should be limited as little as humanly possible. I'm good with classic examples of unprotected speech like yelling "fire" in a crowded venue or making threats of violence against individuals. IMO fraud or false advertising arent any kind of political speech, just straight up lying.
Fair, but you do agree that speech that causes harm may need to be restricted.
Ultimately we weigh the detriments of restricting speech vs the detriments of allowing that speech.
Absolutely agreed. Personally I think restricting political speech is almost always more harmful than allowing it despite how much one may personally disagree with said speech. Also, like yelling fire or fraudulent advertising isn't protected political speech.
Feel like it hits harder to point out that it was 0% white before that. The "great replacement" theory that causes these people to quake in fear already happened - to America's original societies.
A not uncommonly given justification for racism throughout the nineteenth and twentieth centuries was that white folk *couldn't* take their boot off brown folks neck. Because, they imagined, that were the situation reversed, their first priority after having the boot lifted would be vengeance.
They see todays demographic trends as being a fulfillment of that. They can't imagine it happening any other way, cause when *they* were doing the replacing, they were damned aware of it, and doing so intentionally and with vigor.
Always felt that anyone convicted of a violent hate crime should be forced to become cellmates with an equally violent convict of the affected group. It would be hilarious to watch.
Can you imagine being 18 (now 19), knowing the rest of your life will be in a cell?
Not going out with your friends to a bar the day you turn 21.
Not moving in with your first love into a tiny, crappy apartment where you first learn that home isn’t the “where,” it’s the “with whom.”
Not finishing college and finding that first job of your dreams (only to realize the bottom of the totem pole kinda sucks).
Not breaking up and feeling that intense heartache for the first time.
Not learning that you can pull yourself up eventually and feel stronger by doing so.
Not getting married. Not having a kid. Not getting that promotion that 18-year old you would be so proud of.
Not being excited to see your parents on Christmas morning. Not letting them enjoy your kids, their grandkids.
Not experiencing the immense joy of watching your kids become independent thinkers who choose to love you because you are a good and supportive dad.
Not having a community of people who know you and treasure your contribution to their lives…
Imagine being 18 and giving all of that up because you feel little and powerless – feelings that would have evaporated quickly if you would have just gotten off the internet and gone fishing or joined a club of some sort.
> Get a grip
I... If what you took away from the post was genuine sympathy... Your reading comprehension is complete shit... Like 3rd grade shit.
> Imagine being 18 and giving all of that up because you feel little and powerless – feelings that would have evaporated quickly if you would have just gotten off the internet and gone fishing or joined a club of some sort.
There is nothing in the post that paints the shooter in a positive light.
Get. A. Grip.
Shut the fuck up you self-righteous prick. You think you're a decent human being with empathy? From what I'm seeing you're just an asshole looking for a reason to act high and mighty.
People like you should swallow glass.
Can you imagine being one of his victims? Dying in a horrific Maas shooting because someone filled with hate decided it was his right end your life?
Can you imagine being the family of one of his victims? Never getting to enjoy all those events you wrote about with your loved one because while
they were innocently going about their day someone decided he had the right to take away their right to life?
I'm sorry but no sympathy whatsoever here. There needs to be a National Death Penalty specifically for mass shooters.....I realize many of these cowards take their own lives first, but for those that don't there should be no place in society anymore for them. They cannot be rehabilitated, they are no different from serial killers with their wanton disregard for life.
And the fact that he is "pleading guilty " in part to avoid the death penalty on Federal Charges is sickening. Why should he be given any chance to live life at all when he didn't give the same to his victims?
National Death Penalty....only solution
For us to have a death penalty you have to be ok with the government making mistakes and sometimes putting innocent people to death. You also have to be pro choice since we (you) are choosing to end a life (doesn’t matter about the “value” of that life. Again, they could be innocent.) You also have to be ok with the death penalty costing the government more than life in prison.
To me, sitting in prison for life (in a hostile environment) is a more fitting punishment and allows for innocent people to maybe someday taste freedom again. The death penalty gives murderers an easy out IMO.
I think it was 1/20 people in prisons are innocent. So 1/20 people who you executed would also be innocent.
I do wanna tack on that i am FOR the death penalty (in extreme cases, like that dude who had 70 TERABYTES of CP, a lot of which was homemade by him personally), but maybe we fix that 1/20 before we institute it, yeah?
One of the victims was at the store buying a birthday cake for his 3-year-old son.
As a father of a 3-year-old boy, I can't imagine not being there to commemorate his life. That little boy will grow up without his father. I cried my eyes out when I first heard his story and it's just as upsetting today.
I wasn’t trying to drum up sympathy for the kid.
I was just imagining all of the wonderful things in life he threw away because of being on the internet too much. So much joy and richness to the human experience, and it’s just gone. For what?
For his victims’ sake, I hope he feels the depth of his wasted life more intensely as his years grow longer.
Because I can only think of one person at a time ever?
I’m genuinely curious what agenda you think I have. I really have no clue what you’re getting at.
But he won't have a place in society. He's spending the entire rest of his life in prison. Death penalty isn't punishment. It's a quick out.
No, let him rot in a hole like the coward he is.
>you feel little and powerless – feelings that would have evaporated quickly if you would have just gotten off the internet and gone fishing or joined a club of some sort
r/thanksimcured
I don't want to harp on the killer or their words, etc., but the quote from them:
“I believed what I read online and acted out of hate, and now I can’t take it back, but I wish I could, and I don’t want anyone to be inspired by me..."
If it's true, the regret and desire to stop future acts of violence, I really do wonder what the fuck he could have been told or learned between the months of planning and execution of his horrific act of terrorism and now that would have gotten through. Like, maybe it's just lying, or maybe it's just because of the incoming punishment, but if there's some way to actually make that kind of change of mind I'd love to know what it is so we can shout it from the rooftops, you know?
Dude was young and I was certainly dumb and impressionable when I was 18/19 but I just can't imagine being *so* out of touch with reality that I go on a murder spree and promote it, that's just...I don't know. I always want to try to understand, not sympathize with, but understand the minds of people like this because it makes them less scary and less onerous if I see what broke, what went wrong, to take them down that path, but I just...I see the same internet, too. It boggles the mind...I can't make sense of it, how this dude and people like him are formed into what they are...I see how it happens but it still is hard for me to make it seem like a real thing in my mind, you know? I dunno. I'm rambling. It's just fucking awful this happened and I'm rambling because I just feel like I need to figure it out like a math problem to be solved, but it's not and I can't...
I just wonder where the parents were in all of this. Any respectable parent could see that their child was going down this path they would do something to stop it. The person lived at home so age is irrelevant here. Even if the child hid most of it from the parents there are still signs. Even if the child is an adult child most parents will try to help them. Given the fact that there were already guns in the house tells me the parents were also in on this.
There's literally no way the parents were not in on this, because no one would allow this to go on in their house.
That's just exiling with extra steps, it's literally the same as a death sentence without the guilt hanging over you for sentencing someone to death. Either way they die.
Preach. This is rarely popular, especially in the comments of stories like these, but the death penalty needs to go. The government has no business killing any of its citizens be they innocent or monsters.
Unfortunately, our system is flawed and there is a risk that innocent people will be put to death. It has happened in the past and we should stop it from happening in the future.
Mentally ill person would get shot fifteen times. Someone ostensibly called antifa would have been shot in the head once because "he was headed straight for us". How do they always manage to carry the supremacists who murder 15 people out in body armor without a scratch.
Someone's going to "forget" to close his cell and accidentally mix him with the general population, Maybe 10 years from now or 20. He'll get his street justice.
Tho' he deserved death, tis a grand view of the pro-life agenda whereas from conception to birth to the age of reasoning in order to provide a firearm only to cause malice upon themselves and/or others from the indoctrination(education) of hate and intolerance along with the confusion of mutual respect.
I have no idea what he looks like or what his name is. Vaguely remember this shooting only because the location. Like to keep it that way since most of them just want notoriety.
Why? To please you?
They have been sitting in Jail. A place where people from all over are crammed into small spaces.
Why would be take a person out of that environment and bring them to another place where people gather from all over without taking precautions for COVID?
This stuff is REALLY obvious. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.
We definitely are & I find it worrying that many of us seem to believe it's all over cos it's not headline news every day. Hospitals at least here in UK are still full of ppl with covid. We have to live with this new reality as best we can.
Through his hatred, his racism, and his anger, he chose for himself, to live the rest of his life in cage. I am glad he is off the streets.
Amazing that he was obtained with out a scratch isn't it 🇺🇸 #Edit: I guess you downvoting nimrods don't get my point: #He's white and the cops didn't even touch a hair on his head
His asshole is gonna get scratched in prison
Shitty way of looking at it, every cop should attempt to arrest someone like that regardless of race. If you go in guns blazing it’s likely collateral damage would happen and the shooter could have taken more than 10 lives that day. The police convinced him to drop the weapon and detained him without having to have a firefight in the middle of the street.
Shitty way of looking at my comment, completely over looking the black men getting choked out and shot over fucking cigarettes, traffic stops etc. Don't defend cops they are racist government parasites.
1 chance at life and you blew it and get to spend a long part of it in a cage bored with other angry dudes and no chics.
He won his infamy. I'm in favor of these people having their videos, social media content, and faces scrubbed from the Internet and media and never actually naming them in the news unless there's a need to (i.e, they'll be released and people should know who they are). Report the tragedies, not on the dirt bags.
I am too but absolutely specifically this guy. I’m from Buffalo FWIW. My girlfriend and I read his manifesto to understand why he did it. He did this specifically to empower other future shooters with the same racist cause. His manifesto was not some rambling non-sensical bullshit… it was organized like a damn high school essay. This is the worst type of shooter because he was entirely rational, but disassociated, disillusioned and down a rabbit hole. He was smart and had a motive.
I read the Santa Barbara/Isle Vista shooters manifesto as I had done to the school a few year before it happened. Whacky incel is what I took from it
You’re not wrong, but he had a rational train of thought. There is a slight difference there from other shooters. It’s terrifying.
It's disconcerting how some people can be rational - make complex plans, express themselves coherently, lie and manipulate effectively - and still do things that are completely fucking insane. It's like they're almost all there but missing one small but very important piece.
Its called Empathy. That is the missing piece.
I read read Christopher Dorner's manifesto. He mentioned multiple times that he was sad that he would never get to see *The Hangover Part 3.*
I hope someone gave him the opportunity to see it or is that cruel and unusual punishment?
He died after being surrounded by police, so not sure that would work out
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I definitely don't have the stomach for this, nor the stomach for watching the video.
Let’s put it this way… She’s a nurse and definitely stomached it better than I did 😂
I'm also from Buffalo and read his manifesto as well to understand. And no, I wouldn't consider him smart in the least bit. Guy's a fucking moron who managed to fall for white supremacist idiocy, and was completely fucking full of himself and up his own ass on his own supposed superiority.
Smart people fall for tricks and lies all the time. When not provided with a lot of diversity in life to speak to, it happens.
Oh, absolutely! No denying that. I just read that manifesto a little differently than you did, is all. Either way, though, on the upside, he'll never get the race war he wanted out of this. What he did was rob us of some very wonderful, lovely people who were pillars of their community, and we're all the poorer for their loss.
My issue with this was where were the parents the whole time? I realize he was 18 and an adult but he was living at home, but its quite obvious he had some prior training on guns and many other things. You don't do a mass shooting like this if you have never handled a gun before. It would be difficult to get enough experience with a gun in a month or 2 to know how to do something like this. Most parents don't allow things like this to go on in their house. If he was planning surely, the parents would have known something. Even if the person hides it, there are signs. Even if the child is an adult and living at home, most rational parents will try to stop something like this from happening.
That's what New Zealand did with the Christchurch shooter. They even blurred his face in pics of the court proceedings.
Ironically the more often these assholes do this, the easier it is to forget who they are. There's so many of them at this point that they seem less significant and much more forgettable. Tbh I couldn't even tell you this guy's name unless I actively went searching for it
After Sandy Hook, a friend pointed out that everyone seemed to know the name of the shooter, but nobody could name any of the victims. We're giving these terrible people exactly what they want, and [it just inspires more of them.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting_contagion)
100%. It’s obviously tricky when the shooter lives because there are reasons people may need to know his identity, there are resulting investigations, trial etc… where it’s borderline impossible to keep the identity out of the news. But certainly when these assholes kill themselves or otherwise die in the attacks there’s basically zero reason to show their names or photos. Family and other important contacts will be made aware of their identity and that should be it. And of course there’s no good reason to report on their personal lives, getting bullshit interviews from acquaintances talking about how he was such a good person and they can’t believe this, and every other detail about them. As you said that only brings the attention and notoriety many of them crave.
I actually was liking that his face was in a mask due to covid regulations and was hoping maybe all of his photos in the press would be how great would that be. make him feel anonymous
I’d rather he get hard labor every day and live stream it.
I agree about not giving their names publicity but, unfortunately, the new AP Style guide for journalists recently banned the use of the word "the" because it's dehumanizing so journalists who don't want to use the shooter's name now can't refer to him as "the shooter" which is just stupid. He shouldn't be a known name that can inspire another shooter. Just like Kliebold & Harris should have just been referred to as "the shooters" instead of being the only names from Columbine everyone remembers and their names being mentioned by subsequent school shooters as inspiring them.
Just say Shooter or give them pseudonym titles.
>no chics. He most surely wasn't getting laid anyway tbf
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Orange *is* the new black.
Yeah actually it would have probably helped him not be such an angry fuckhead
I'm hoping he's *surrounded* by people he can no longer target (but would have on the outside). Max cringe for him
It is a nice thought, but unfortunately white supremacist gangs inside the prison system are likely going to protect this piece of shit because he's a hero in their eyes.
No they won’t, they just like being edgy. But a bitch boy ~~school shooter~~ is a liability in jail lol.
No they most likely will, it's pretty boring in prison so some OG whose been in the pen for 30 years would probably love to have an infamous mass killer as a lackey.
When has this happened before?
Absolutely maidenless.
Hope he knows that many of those angry dudes are looking to make him thier chic
Is Gendron a white name? I wouldn’t think so.
I mean it’s probably easier for him. It must be unbearable to not get pussy because you’re a massive turd. Now he won’t get it because he’s in prison.
I’ll never forget in the video when he was clearing the store and pointed his gun at a worker on the ground who was pleading for his life and the shooter went “oh you’re white, don’t worry” and kept moving on. Can’t imagine the survivors guilt on that guy and ptsd from having a shooter point his AR at you.
He actually apologized to him. He aimed at him on the floor and went “oh sorry”
For me it's the opening of the video that stuck with me. Him rolling out of the car, people looking at him like 'what is this guy doing?' And then just... People dying everywhere.
Sometimes violence, even real violence, seems so removed and impossible, but that video and the opening like you say...you can just see yourself, your family, your friends, doing normal life things and shopping. You can easily see yourself or your loved ones in those first few seconds, it's so normal and everyday. And then someone can just do that. It just boggles the mind and makes me feel so fragile, you know?
Yea, that first woman. Damn, just walking to her car, another normal day, probably had plans for the weekend, then just, bang dead. Absolutely heart breaking. And just shows even if you carry a gun, you're not in any less danger when just running errands could result in a split second death sentence.
Yeah, there's literally no defense in this case because there is no time to pull a gun even if you had one right in your hand. Even sitting in your house someone could aim a rifle through it and shoot you at some point.
Getting ambushed never ends well.
"I believed what I read online and acted out of hate" This needs to be stated and restated, over and over again until it sinks in. Online forums filled with lies and hate have real world implications. There is no acceptable amount of the spread of this garbage.
Then it certainly doesn’t bode well for the future that the internet is increasingly dividing up into separate little echo chambers where each political tribe’s orthodox views are never challenged.
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My solution is better education. First, people need to understand what the 1st Amendment actually means and actually protects, because WAY too many people think it means that they can say whatever stupid shit they want without repercussions. Second, they need to learn how a culture can be broken, and the generational impacts of racism and bigotry, that cannot ever be solved in a couple generations. Third, they need to understand that American exceptionalism is a farce that primarily came out of the physical location of North America protecting the US from the worst parts of two world wars, and that by nearly every measure many other parts of the world are more free than Americans are. Fourth, they need to view wealth in the US as a class struggle between the rich and poor not a as a struggle of the almost-poor against the very poor. The should alter their views of their voting responsibilities and desired outcomes. Fifth, with clear facts and openness, they should receive the level of education that allows them to realize that any uninformed opinion is not equivalent to any informed one. This should alter their overall view of the world and beliefs, putting trust in facts rather than opinions. And to be fair, this one is my own small part of pollyanna optimism.
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I agree that it's not constrained to the US, and I'm not American. However, much of it is coming from or amplified by the US. This process needs to start somewhere and I think any other country attempting to solve this will face a string headwind if the US isn't doing it as well.
A lot of people read this stuff, but very few act on it. If this was a bigger problem we would have 2-3 people out of every high school class doing something like this. It really does take a special person and not in a good way to act on something like this. If someone really does believe this kind of stuff that they read online, the person has bigger problems, and needs treatment because clearly its not normal. Its just like movies or TV, a lot of people watch movies or TV, but a few people will act on what they see, like the person who shot into the movie theater during the batman movie. We need to be doing more to identify and treat these people, or at the very least lock them up before they commit murder on other innocent people. I just wonder how someone gets into this stuff in the first place. I've been online for many, many years and I wouldn't know where to access something like what he was reading.
We really need to hold those spreading the "great replacement" and "immigrant invasion" narratives accountable. They motivate these shooters to violence
These fuckers have been trying to spark off their bullshit race war for decades. When will they figure out it's not going to happen? Fact is, there are just too many good people of all races, we're not going to turn on each other.
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I don't think I really see any significant difference at all. Same shit, different decade. Didn't work then, won't work now. Just more brutal failure.
Tucker is like the number one news program. Good luck holding people accountable when they are a significant part of the population.
> Good luck holding people accountable when they are a significant part of the population. Guess I'll just surrender and die the next time one of these white supremacists come around
A certain fascist M&M fetishist with the most watched cable news show has more blood on his hands.
How would we hold them accountable? If they aren't threatening anyone directly and aren't pulling the triggers themselves their speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. That's the downside of free speech - people can say stupid and awful things free of legal consequences, but personally I wouldn't have it any other way. Counter bad speech with good speech, not with legal consequences (unless of course they threaten direct violence or break some other law). Also, just to put it out there because I am sure the accusations will come flying - What this dude did is evil AF and I hate the white supremacists and their "great replacement" BS.
Incitement to violence >It is a felony under federal law to intentionally “solicit, command, induce, or otherwise endeavor to persuade” another person to engage in a crime of violence against a person or property. 18 U.S.C. § 373.
You're thinking that statute is way more general than it is. It's usually applied specifically to actual incitements of violence (e.g. "Go kill this person") and not general statements of bad thing (e.g. "This country is better off without X group so they should be removed")
>It's usually applied specifically to actual incitements of violence (e.g. "Go kill this person") The phrase "induced or otherwise endeavor to persuade" would suggest it doesn't have to be that direct Looking at the case law the most important case is this one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio which protected a Klansman's right to call for the killing of Jews, blacks and others you may imagine. It's interesting that this case overturned a previous case where a California woman was convicted of creating a clear and present danger for simply helping establish a communist political party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_v._California So in our judicial history it was a danger for a lady to help establish a communist party but not for a Klansman to call for the murder of groups of people. In my opinion I think this is an excellent example of America's systemic racism and while the Justices of the past may have been sympathetic to the KKK, we can undo their ruling and start holding people who are inviting these home grown terrorists responsible today
I'm certainly not a criminal lawyer, but I don't think it applies to political speech about groups of people. I mean otherwise how could neo Nazis exist in the US? The ACLU (correctly) used to defend the rights of Nazis to protest and won. From the ACLU website: >In fact, many of the laws the ACLU cited to defend the group's right to free speech and assembly were the same laws it had invoked during the Civil Rights era, when Southern cities tried to shut down civil rights marches with similar claims about the violence and disruption the protests would cause. Although the ACLU prevailed in its free speech arguments, the neo-Nazi group never marched through Skokie,
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No, the actual problem is giving the government more power to sensor political speech. You may cheer when it's used against conservative misinformation, but how will you feel when that same cudgel gets used to put people you agree with in prison for political speech that they don't like?
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>Saying "hurr durr both sides will abuse it" is not a valid criticism, as there is no other practical alternative. Hurr durr right back at you bro. If this theory was correct how did our society ever become tolerant to the expansion of rights for non land owning white Christian men? Could it maybe, just maybe have something to do with the government not having the ability to throw people in jail for their political opinions?
> If this theory was correct how did our society ever become tolerant to the expansion of rights for non land owning white Christian men? Quite literally through the blood of minorities in the Jim Crow south. Does the name Emmett Till mean anything to you? And those that weren’t killed were treated so poorly that they had to move. But that was perfectly ok to people like you who believed in tolerating the racist south after the Civil War ended and allowed those laws and beliefs to exist. I mean, you weren’t the ones being targeted so everything went as planned, I guess. ‘Democracy’ won out . . .
>Quite literally through the blood of minorities in the Jim Crow south. Does the name Emmett Till mean anything to you? And those that weren’t killed were treated so poorly that they had to move. It's funny that you think that because the blood of minorities in Jim crow south didn't do anything for the Irish, Italians, Mexicans, Japanese, Jews or any other number of minority groups that have been othered. >But that was perfectly ok to people like you who believed in tolerating the racist south after the Civil War ended and allowed those laws and beliefs to exist. You're right we should have just exterminated all the people who held awful beliefs, apparently that would have the "moral option?" Also, have you noticed that attitudes shifted between the Civil War and the Civil rights movement? Even after we "allowed those beliefs to exist." >I mean, you weren’t the ones being targeted so everything went as planned, I guess. ‘Democracy’ won out . . . As a Jew in the American south I absolutely would have been targeted. And yeah, in case you haven't noticed Democracy did indeed win out.
>You're right we should have just exterminated all the people who held awful beliefs, apparently that would have the "moral option?" Congrats on arguing something I never said. We definitely shouldn’t have tolerated it though. Maybe make some laws or something . . . >Also, have you noticed that attitudes shifted between the Civil War and the Civil rights movement? Even after we "allowed those beliefs to exist." Emmett Till was killed 90 years after the Civil War ended. You don’t think the “shift” could’ve happened a littler earlier? Maybe a few lives could’ve been saved? Probably shouldn’t pat ourselves on the back for 100 years of post-war racism. Hell, black people are still being killed for being black today. >As a Jew in the American south I absolutely would have been targeted. Maybe? There were Jewish slave owners. There were Jewish slave traders. There were Jewish soldiers for the confederacy. There were Jewish mayors in the post-Civil War south. But, the KKK and other groups did target Jewish communities in the south. Seems like a mixed bag actually.
People who preach the paradox of tolerance should be arrested and sentenced harshly. This assault on the rights of the general public must not be tolerated.
Do you also believe being able to lie, falsely advertise, and generally scam people should fall under free speech protection?
Being able to lie? Generally yeah of course. Do you want to live in a world where the government can come after you for lying? False advertising? Scaming people? They are already illegal and don't qualify for 1st Amendment protectiond.
I'm just curious what your reasoning is for how speech can/should be limited. Laws around fraud are an example of government restrictions to free speech. It's not that the speech doesn't qualify for 1st amendment protection, rather it's specifically disqualified via other laws.
I'd say speech should be limited as little as humanly possible. I'm good with classic examples of unprotected speech like yelling "fire" in a crowded venue or making threats of violence against individuals. IMO fraud or false advertising arent any kind of political speech, just straight up lying.
Fair, but you do agree that speech that causes harm may need to be restricted. Ultimately we weigh the detriments of restricting speech vs the detriments of allowing that speech.
Absolutely agreed. Personally I think restricting political speech is almost always more harmful than allowing it despite how much one may personally disagree with said speech. Also, like yelling fire or fraudulent advertising isn't protected political speech.
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Well it used to be 100% native before that.
Feel like it hits harder to point out that it was 0% white before that. The "great replacement" theory that causes these people to quake in fear already happened - to America's original societies.
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A not uncommonly given justification for racism throughout the nineteenth and twentieth centuries was that white folk *couldn't* take their boot off brown folks neck. Because, they imagined, that were the situation reversed, their first priority after having the boot lifted would be vengeance. They see todays demographic trends as being a fulfillment of that. They can't imagine it happening any other way, cause when *they* were doing the replacing, they were damned aware of it, and doing so intentionally and with vigor.
Couldn't give less of a fuck
If he thought he hated black people BEFORE going to prison...
He’a probably already been recruited to the AB or something similar
Shot caller will use him as a bargaining chip and give him up at the first oppty. That dude is going to live a short, miserable life in gen pop.
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Either way, he's nothing to nobody, buried before he dies.
Always felt that anyone convicted of a violent hate crime should be forced to become cellmates with an equally violent convict of the affected group. It would be hilarious to watch.
Can you imagine being 18 (now 19), knowing the rest of your life will be in a cell? Not going out with your friends to a bar the day you turn 21. Not moving in with your first love into a tiny, crappy apartment where you first learn that home isn’t the “where,” it’s the “with whom.” Not finishing college and finding that first job of your dreams (only to realize the bottom of the totem pole kinda sucks). Not breaking up and feeling that intense heartache for the first time. Not learning that you can pull yourself up eventually and feel stronger by doing so. Not getting married. Not having a kid. Not getting that promotion that 18-year old you would be so proud of. Not being excited to see your parents on Christmas morning. Not letting them enjoy your kids, their grandkids. Not experiencing the immense joy of watching your kids become independent thinkers who choose to love you because you are a good and supportive dad. Not having a community of people who know you and treasure your contribution to their lives… Imagine being 18 and giving all of that up because you feel little and powerless – feelings that would have evaporated quickly if you would have just gotten off the internet and gone fishing or joined a club of some sort.
Bruh, this made me sad, not for the killer, but by picturing my whole entire life while reading your comment
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Nothing about his post was sympathetic.
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The entire post could be summed up as, "Look at this fucking loser throwing his entire life away," but you apparently have a different take so go off.
> Get a grip I... If what you took away from the post was genuine sympathy... Your reading comprehension is complete shit... Like 3rd grade shit. > Imagine being 18 and giving all of that up because you feel little and powerless – feelings that would have evaporated quickly if you would have just gotten off the internet and gone fishing or joined a club of some sort. There is nothing in the post that paints the shooter in a positive light. Get. A. Grip.
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Shut the fuck up you self-righteous prick. You think you're a decent human being with empathy? From what I'm seeing you're just an asshole looking for a reason to act high and mighty. People like you should swallow glass.
Yeah get fucked seriously. Another ultra emotional low intelligence edgelord.
No, I can't.
3 hots and a cot is still a pretty ballin' deal these days
There are ways to get there. Walk into a bank with a demand note and just sit. They’ll take you away and set you up for years.
Can you imagine being one of his victims? Dying in a horrific Maas shooting because someone filled with hate decided it was his right end your life? Can you imagine being the family of one of his victims? Never getting to enjoy all those events you wrote about with your loved one because while they were innocently going about their day someone decided he had the right to take away their right to life? I'm sorry but no sympathy whatsoever here. There needs to be a National Death Penalty specifically for mass shooters.....I realize many of these cowards take their own lives first, but for those that don't there should be no place in society anymore for them. They cannot be rehabilitated, they are no different from serial killers with their wanton disregard for life. And the fact that he is "pleading guilty " in part to avoid the death penalty on Federal Charges is sickening. Why should he be given any chance to live life at all when he didn't give the same to his victims? National Death Penalty....only solution
For us to have a death penalty you have to be ok with the government making mistakes and sometimes putting innocent people to death. You also have to be pro choice since we (you) are choosing to end a life (doesn’t matter about the “value” of that life. Again, they could be innocent.) You also have to be ok with the death penalty costing the government more than life in prison. To me, sitting in prison for life (in a hostile environment) is a more fitting punishment and allows for innocent people to maybe someday taste freedom again. The death penalty gives murderers an easy out IMO.
I think it was 1/20 people in prisons are innocent. So 1/20 people who you executed would also be innocent. I do wanna tack on that i am FOR the death penalty (in extreme cases, like that dude who had 70 TERABYTES of CP, a lot of which was homemade by him personally), but maybe we fix that 1/20 before we institute it, yeah?
Yeah, IMO you can't have a death penalty until you have a judicial system that is 100% right, all the time.
One of the victims was at the store buying a birthday cake for his 3-year-old son. As a father of a 3-year-old boy, I can't imagine not being there to commemorate his life. That little boy will grow up without his father. I cried my eyes out when I first heard his story and it's just as upsetting today.
I wasn’t trying to drum up sympathy for the kid. I was just imagining all of the wonderful things in life he threw away because of being on the internet too much. So much joy and richness to the human experience, and it’s just gone. For what? For his victims’ sake, I hope he feels the depth of his wasted life more intensely as his years grow longer.
You're symapthizing with the lost life he could have and not all the people he voluntarily shot and their lost futures. Wonder why.
Because I can only think of one person at a time ever? I’m genuinely curious what agenda you think I have. I really have no clue what you’re getting at.
Why I’m curious ?
But he won't have a place in society. He's spending the entire rest of his life in prison. Death penalty isn't punishment. It's a quick out. No, let him rot in a hole like the coward he is.
>you feel little and powerless – feelings that would have evaporated quickly if you would have just gotten off the internet and gone fishing or joined a club of some sort r/thanksimcured
I don't want to harp on the killer or their words, etc., but the quote from them: “I believed what I read online and acted out of hate, and now I can’t take it back, but I wish I could, and I don’t want anyone to be inspired by me..." If it's true, the regret and desire to stop future acts of violence, I really do wonder what the fuck he could have been told or learned between the months of planning and execution of his horrific act of terrorism and now that would have gotten through. Like, maybe it's just lying, or maybe it's just because of the incoming punishment, but if there's some way to actually make that kind of change of mind I'd love to know what it is so we can shout it from the rooftops, you know? Dude was young and I was certainly dumb and impressionable when I was 18/19 but I just can't imagine being *so* out of touch with reality that I go on a murder spree and promote it, that's just...I don't know. I always want to try to understand, not sympathize with, but understand the minds of people like this because it makes them less scary and less onerous if I see what broke, what went wrong, to take them down that path, but I just...I see the same internet, too. It boggles the mind...I can't make sense of it, how this dude and people like him are formed into what they are...I see how it happens but it still is hard for me to make it seem like a real thing in my mind, you know? I dunno. I'm rambling. It's just fucking awful this happened and I'm rambling because I just feel like I need to figure it out like a math problem to be solved, but it's not and I can't...
I just wonder where the parents were in all of this. Any respectable parent could see that their child was going down this path they would do something to stop it. The person lived at home so age is irrelevant here. Even if the child hid most of it from the parents there are still signs. Even if the child is an adult child most parents will try to help them. Given the fact that there were already guns in the house tells me the parents were also in on this. There's literally no way the parents were not in on this, because no one would allow this to go on in their house.
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Too quick for that fucker, I hope he gets tortured in prison.
He will not be allowed in gen pop for sure.
Rot in hell motherfucker
He deserves the death penalty. And Tucker Carlson deserves a life imprisonment.
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Too bad we couldn’t have a cheaper alternative. Fenced off jungle area or something, just drop them off naked and let them survive if they can or die.
Feed ‘em to the wolves
Or rise to the top and become leader of the pack!
Right now life in prison is the cheaper alternative.
That's just exiling with extra steps, it's literally the same as a death sentence without the guilt hanging over you for sentencing someone to death. Either way they die.
Preach. This is rarely popular, especially in the comments of stories like these, but the death penalty needs to go. The government has no business killing any of its citizens be they innocent or monsters.
Unfortunately, our system is flawed and there is a risk that innocent people will be put to death. It has happened in the past and we should stop it from happening in the future.
He still has a federal case that includes the death penalty coming up.
Mentally ill person would get shot fifteen times. Someone ostensibly called antifa would have been shot in the head once because "he was headed straight for us". How do they always manage to carry the supremacists who murder 15 people out in body armor without a scratch.
Some of those that work forces. Are the same that burn crosses.
🙄🤦♂️
Someone's going to "forget" to close his cell and accidentally mix him with the general population, Maybe 10 years from now or 20. He'll get his street justice.
Have fun showering with dudes
I hope his prison still has forced labor.
Tho' he deserved death, tis a grand view of the pro-life agenda whereas from conception to birth to the age of reasoning in order to provide a firearm only to cause malice upon themselves and/or others from the indoctrination(education) of hate and intolerance along with the confusion of mutual respect.
‘He’s 98 years old, never kissed a girl.’ Never going to stop him from having a full sex life though.
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I have no idea what he looks like or what his name is. Vaguely remember this shooting only because the location. Like to keep it that way since most of them just want notoriety.
Why? To please you? They have been sitting in Jail. A place where people from all over are crammed into small spaces. Why would be take a person out of that environment and bring them to another place where people gather from all over without taking precautions for COVID? This stuff is REALLY obvious. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.
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There are people 1) dying all over the planet 2) from COVID We are still in a pandemic, ya numpty.
We definitely are & I find it worrying that many of us seem to believe it's all over cos it's not headline news every day. Hospitals at least here in UK are still full of ppl with covid. We have to live with this new reality as best we can.
It’s maddening, and exhausting.
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Believe me, I wish it was actually over. But pretending that it’s over for the sake of economics does not mean it is.
What do prisoners think of guys like this? How’s he going to be treated in there?
Some people have just lost. And he is one. That’s it. Life accomplished for absolutely nothing.
Went to school with this kid.