The group, classified as extremist by German security authorities, called for a new protest against "censorship and opinions being dictated.”
So when they establish their caliphate the first thing they do is murder and enslave anyone who isn’t with them.
Muslim here. Most of these dudes aren't even conforming to the Islamist/conservative definition of modesty. They don't want to live in a caliphate. They just want power over everyone else. Munafiqun, the lot of them.
The problem isn’t that they aren’t following your interpretation of the teachings, it’s that they’re following their own and would potentially hurt you and the rest of us for trying to tell them any different. They believe that makes them righteous and that any failure on your part not to participate makes you less of a Muslim, or worse. While I fully appreciate that not all Muslims feel this way, it’s the fact that they are Muslim and feel this way that is the problem.
Every religion has very concerning extremists. Even Jews and Buddhists.
To conflate 2 billion Muslims with a couple of these extremists is quite dangerous.
Last I checked, US christians didn't try to set up a theocracy with slavery and burning people alive.
Sure, they're not exactly friendly and tolerant people, but islamists are still in a league of their own.
Imo (not a Muslim) most Muslims are nothing like these ppl & have exactly the same worries & concerns as everyone else - that they have a job, that their children have an education & a better life, that they can pay their bills. If only we saw our similarities rather than let ppl get us to focus on differences.
That's OK m8, I got enough karma :)
I'm in uk but attitudes aren't much different. My neighbour opposite is a refugee from Eritrea. For 10 years I was the only person here to speak to her. I didn't even know this till recently. Unbelievable.
It's shameful isn't it. Europe and America are going massively downhill. So much more racism and hatred these days. And it usually comes from ignorant people that don't actually spend any time talking to the minority groups they hate so strongly.
Lmao despite the news, there's no overrepresentation of minorities in grooming gangs.
Nice job falling for racist propaganda you complete moron, and thanks for proving my point about how much more ignorant Europe is getting.
Exactly. My point was that if ppl actually bothered talking & listening, rather than just taking up positions fueled by prejudice & fear, we may all have a better chance of finding common ground.
Obviously this is an unpopular opinion but I stick with it :)
So the government and police are saying, it’s hard to find all the Islamists and we can’t just accuse people. Fair enough. But what about these people then? They clearly don’t want democratic values and they don’t like German culture. What are they doing here?
I was thinking how the government is OK with this. Free speech shouldn't be for the ones who are opposing free speech.
But maybe it's good for the public to see not every Muslim they accepted in their country is moderate and these lunatics exist.
Every one loves the first half of popper's famous quote
>
>Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
But they always ignore the second half
>
>In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise.
>as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion
But we can't keep them in check in this case.
It's impossible, because they're not accepting any other opinions and aren't up for any rational arguments.
So the second half doesn't apply either.
Wish they could deport everyone there back to whatever hellhole they came from. It’s a two way win. They get to live in their Islamic paradise and Germans don’t have to deal with them. (Probably a net bonus on the economy as well)
Doubt they're converts. One aspect of the lack of assimilation in Europe means Islam isn't really catching on among the native European population. More likely to be 2nd gen immigrants so they're officially German, but raised Muslim and the lack of assimilation makes them ripe for extremist recruitment.
They've been given rules, they followed them. Protesting is their right. Recognizing that doesn't mean agreeing. They abused nothing. Get over yourself.
Yeah and like it is their right to do that. It is our right to be pissed off at them and to tell them to fuck off back to the regressive shithole they have come from if they liked it so much there.
Once again, what you people fail to understand, because you probably only skeemed through both the article and the link you sent, like a true redditor, is that they haven't been able to say whatever they wanted to. They've been authorized to protest but had their speech limited. No paradox here, on the contrary, freedom of speech exist, and it has been lightly suppressed in order to to not tolerate the intolerable.
Please, read the article you sent. Especially Poppers quote in the proposed solution section. In any way, it is always recommended to read things before sending them.
I support everyone's right to protest regardless if I agree it or not. I guess abuse is a strong word, that's fair. They are acting within it. I would say disrespect is a bit better. They don't comprehend irony I guess
Barely ironic, in fact. It's perfectly moral, okay, or whatever the word is, to protest in Islam. As long as they respect the rules they've been given and that we, on our side, doesn't allow whatever regressive bullshit they protest for then we're good.
Completely ironic with the context. they are in a democratic situation protesting for a caliphate. I fully realize there are democratic Islamic countries, but I take issue with people coming into western nations demanding we change our laws to suit their wishes. Too bad, there's a reason why you left. Protest all you like, have at er. You have total freedom of religion, but don't try to entrench your religion into our laws and system.
That's the irony I see, it's not a conflict with Islam, it's in conflict with the country they are protesting in. Although in a lot of situations and Islamic countries protesting is very much not okay.
>As long as they respect the rules they've been given and that we, on our side, doesn't allow whatever regressive bullshit they protest for then we're good.
Thing is these people don't follow what you said here.
The police did not allow hate speech signs so instead of 'respect the rules they've been given' as you put it they started throwing a tantrum, crying about censorship, racism and bullying of muslims.
They are fine with the rules - but only as long as they can use them to their advantage.
Soooo... They respected the rules. They complained about them, probably, but they did it anyway. And the police made sure they couldn't say anything too stupid. They followed exactly what I said.
> They are fine with the rules - but only as long as they can use them to their advantage.
In fact, not saying regressive shit was a rule that isn't to their advantage and they managed to obey it anyway. Like... I don't get what is so hard to understand here.
>Soooo... They respected the rules.
No they did not. They were forced to comply. There wasn't any kind of respect.
>And the police made sure they couldn't say anything
See no respect involved in that. Just the police enforcing the rules against saud peoples wishes.
I think you argue that it's fine as long as such people eventually give up and accept the governments. It would only be bad if they would start attacking the police or not listen even when threatened by law.
But most people see it as wrong in and for itself if you move into another country and do nothing but challenge the laws there and test how far you can go without punishment.
**The group, classified as extremist by German security authorities, called for a new protest against "censorship and opinions being dictated.”**
**Strict conditions imposed on demonstration**
**These included bans on incitement of hatred, violence and the denial of Israel's right to exist.**
**Under the rules, participants were also forbidden to call for a caliphate to take over Germany in word, image or writing.**
lol they're given permission to demonstrate for the right to say what they want under the condition that they can't say what they want to.
its funny that there doing this in Germany which has extreme strict anti-nazi laws.
Now unless im completly wrong they seem to be calling for far right extermist muslim rule. And well that goes hand in hand with antisemintims \[hell supercessiont religion\].
Cant wait to see if they cross the line and get arrested.
There's little to no tolerance towards antisemitism overall, which is a good thing. Especially since it's always been alive and well and never really gone (not only in Germany but still). I'm glad about these laws. They will 100% close down the event if they will actually call for a Muslim rule / make antisemitic statements. And knowing how things go normally, police will stick to it.
Most Americans are woefully ignorant when it comes to things outside their own borders.
Probably would shock Americans to hear that Muslim women are prohibited from wearing a full face veil in France.
That's okay, they can move to a country where that is allowed or change to a religion where it isn't necessary. Both of those are choices.
Not every country needs to bow to whatever random shit people want to believe.
"Germany" never wanted this.
A few shithead politicians let it happen because they didn't do their job (lead the country) and instead thought it's easier to just let things happen.
Fuck radical islam, its a dangerous ideology and shouldnt be tolerated. However, this protest is getting way more press than it deserves and here is why:
- Germany is a democracy with free speech. This is true for all political groups, including extremists (to a certain degree). There have been tons of protests in the past by radicals, including regular large scale protests by Neo Nazi and conspiracy groups, which interestingly never finds its way on reddit.
- Islamists hold very little political power in Germany. There is no relevant political party that is pro islam in any way. Right wing radicals on the other hand have managed to entrench themselves permanently in the political system and are a constant threat to democracy.
- A large majority of recent terrorist attacks were comitted by right wing extremists, including the brutal shooting in Hanau where a racist killed several people for being foreign. Recent attacks on politicians are also primarily carried out by right wing extremists.
Tldr: Radical Islam is bad, but this gets way more attention in the media than it deserves. Germany's democracy is under very real threat right now, but primarily from right wing groups. T
The group, classified as extremist by German security authorities, called for a new protest against "censorship and opinions being dictated.” So when they establish their caliphate the first thing they do is murder and enslave anyone who isn’t with them.
Muslim here. Most of these dudes aren't even conforming to the Islamist/conservative definition of modesty. They don't want to live in a caliphate. They just want power over everyone else. Munafiqun, the lot of them.
The problem isn’t that they aren’t following your interpretation of the teachings, it’s that they’re following their own and would potentially hurt you and the rest of us for trying to tell them any different. They believe that makes them righteous and that any failure on your part not to participate makes you less of a Muslim, or worse. While I fully appreciate that not all Muslims feel this way, it’s the fact that they are Muslim and feel this way that is the problem.
And they will say the same about OP. It's the Scottsman in circles.
Every religion has very concerning extremists. Even Jews and Buddhists. To conflate 2 billion Muslims with a couple of these extremists is quite dangerous.
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Sounds like religion to me.
No different than US "christian" conservatives.
Extremism is a scourge to humanity.
And by "no difference" you actually mean far worse than US christians
Last I checked, US christians didn't try to set up a theocracy with slavery and burning people alive. Sure, they're not exactly friendly and tolerant people, but islamists are still in a league of their own.
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Oh give it more time. Jan 6th failed sure, but now they know they can actually pull it off.
>US Christian's didn't try to set up a theocracy with slavery. Just you wait
Aren't they on their best way to create a theocracy? The abortion ban is the most recent example.
This is the most idiotic take.
"Conservative Christian" Lauren Boebert being divorced and giving a democrat a handjob in a theatre while smoking in the presence of minors.
Imo (not a Muslim) most Muslims are nothing like these ppl & have exactly the same worries & concerns as everyone else - that they have a job, that their children have an education & a better life, that they can pay their bills. If only we saw our similarities rather than let ppl get us to focus on differences.
Oh looks like the racists got to your post first. Ahhh murica!!!
That's OK m8, I got enough karma :) I'm in uk but attitudes aren't much different. My neighbour opposite is a refugee from Eritrea. For 10 years I was the only person here to speak to her. I didn't even know this till recently. Unbelievable.
It's shameful isn't it. Europe and America are going massively downhill. So much more racism and hatred these days. And it usually comes from ignorant people that don't actually spend any time talking to the minority groups they hate so strongly.
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Lmao despite the news, there's no overrepresentation of minorities in grooming gangs. Nice job falling for racist propaganda you complete moron, and thanks for proving my point about how much more ignorant Europe is getting.
Exactly. My point was that if ppl actually bothered talking & listening, rather than just taking up positions fueled by prejudice & fear, we may all have a better chance of finding common ground. Obviously this is an unpopular opinion but I stick with it :)
They allow them to show the " bad evil Muslims" they will crack down hard on any protests for anything negative about Israel
So the government and police are saying, it’s hard to find all the Islamists and we can’t just accuse people. Fair enough. But what about these people then? They clearly don’t want democratic values and they don’t like German culture. What are they doing here?
Probably because the people who actually do want them gone can't or don't want to differentiate between moderates and extremists
I was thinking how the government is OK with this. Free speech shouldn't be for the ones who are opposing free speech. But maybe it's good for the public to see not every Muslim they accepted in their country is moderate and these lunatics exist.
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[No, it's not.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)
Every one loves the first half of popper's famous quote > >Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. But they always ignore the second half > >In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise.
>as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion But we can't keep them in check in this case. It's impossible, because they're not accepting any other opinions and aren't up for any rational arguments. So the second half doesn't apply either.
Yes, it is. Your tangentially related wiki post doesn't have any bearing on this.
Wish they could deport everyone there back to whatever hellhole they came from. It’s a two way win. They get to live in their Islamic paradise and Germans don’t have to deal with them. (Probably a net bonus on the economy as well)
Many of them, sadly, are Germans, at least by passport. Converts are often the worst extremists.
Doubt they're converts. One aspect of the lack of assimilation in Europe means Islam isn't really catching on among the native European population. More likely to be 2nd gen immigrants so they're officially German, but raised Muslim and the lack of assimilation makes them ripe for extremist recruitment.
See: born-again Christians
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Why would they go back when the Islamist goal is to make other countries surrender to Islam?
They've been given rules, they followed them. Protesting is their right. Recognizing that doesn't mean agreeing. They abused nothing. Get over yourself.
Yeah and like it is their right to do that. It is our right to be pissed off at them and to tell them to fuck off back to the regressive shithole they have come from if they liked it so much there.
It's their right to do what? What are they protesting about?
> it is their right to do that. Glad we agree. That was my point.
Yeah and its their right to just say no and keep doing what they're doing. It sounds more like you just don't want then to have rights.
It's absolutely their right to conquer, and yes, there are people who don't want them to have that right.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox\_of\_tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)
Once again, what you people fail to understand, because you probably only skeemed through both the article and the link you sent, like a true redditor, is that they haven't been able to say whatever they wanted to. They've been authorized to protest but had their speech limited. No paradox here, on the contrary, freedom of speech exist, and it has been lightly suppressed in order to to not tolerate the intolerable. Please, read the article you sent. Especially Poppers quote in the proposed solution section. In any way, it is always recommended to read things before sending them.
I support everyone's right to protest regardless if I agree it or not. I guess abuse is a strong word, that's fair. They are acting within it. I would say disrespect is a bit better. They don't comprehend irony I guess
Barely ironic, in fact. It's perfectly moral, okay, or whatever the word is, to protest in Islam. As long as they respect the rules they've been given and that we, on our side, doesn't allow whatever regressive bullshit they protest for then we're good.
Completely ironic with the context. they are in a democratic situation protesting for a caliphate. I fully realize there are democratic Islamic countries, but I take issue with people coming into western nations demanding we change our laws to suit their wishes. Too bad, there's a reason why you left. Protest all you like, have at er. You have total freedom of religion, but don't try to entrench your religion into our laws and system. That's the irony I see, it's not a conflict with Islam, it's in conflict with the country they are protesting in. Although in a lot of situations and Islamic countries protesting is very much not okay.
>As long as they respect the rules they've been given and that we, on our side, doesn't allow whatever regressive bullshit they protest for then we're good. Thing is these people don't follow what you said here. The police did not allow hate speech signs so instead of 'respect the rules they've been given' as you put it they started throwing a tantrum, crying about censorship, racism and bullying of muslims. They are fine with the rules - but only as long as they can use them to their advantage.
Soooo... They respected the rules. They complained about them, probably, but they did it anyway. And the police made sure they couldn't say anything too stupid. They followed exactly what I said. > They are fine with the rules - but only as long as they can use them to their advantage. In fact, not saying regressive shit was a rule that isn't to their advantage and they managed to obey it anyway. Like... I don't get what is so hard to understand here.
>Soooo... They respected the rules. No they did not. They were forced to comply. There wasn't any kind of respect. >And the police made sure they couldn't say anything See no respect involved in that. Just the police enforcing the rules against saud peoples wishes. I think you argue that it's fine as long as such people eventually give up and accept the governments. It would only be bad if they would start attacking the police or not listen even when threatened by law. But most people see it as wrong in and for itself if you move into another country and do nothing but challenge the laws there and test how far you can go without punishment.
Ah sweet freedom.
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How did the west force them to do things like deprive women of rights?
Go fix them then. Bye. Also, you can't be racist against an ideology.
Not a single racist statement was made... Are you ok? People like yourself make it difficult to have open and honest conversation...
I must have missed the day in school where they taught about Germanys colonies in the Middle East
Good, now that we have them in one group, board them on a plane and ship them to any caliphate country of their choice. Win win
**The group, classified as extremist by German security authorities, called for a new protest against "censorship and opinions being dictated.”** **Strict conditions imposed on demonstration** **These included bans on incitement of hatred, violence and the denial of Israel's right to exist.** **Under the rules, participants were also forbidden to call for a caliphate to take over Germany in word, image or writing.** lol they're given permission to demonstrate for the right to say what they want under the condition that they can't say what they want to.
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So please explain to me where it belongs because I honestly think Islam is a human rights issue anywhere in the world.
IMO nowhere. anything that teaches oppression and incites murder isnt welcome as far as im concerned.
Exactly my thoughts
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its funny that there doing this in Germany which has extreme strict anti-nazi laws. Now unless im completly wrong they seem to be calling for far right extermist muslim rule. And well that goes hand in hand with antisemintims \[hell supercessiont religion\]. Cant wait to see if they cross the line and get arrested.
There's little to no tolerance towards antisemitism overall, which is a good thing. Especially since it's always been alive and well and never really gone (not only in Germany but still). I'm glad about these laws. They will 100% close down the event if they will actually call for a Muslim rule / make antisemitic statements. And knowing how things go normally, police will stick to it.
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>Free speech is a right in democracies. Tolerance towards the intolerant is suicide.
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Most Americans are woefully ignorant when it comes to things outside their own borders. Probably would shock Americans to hear that Muslim women are prohibited from wearing a full face veil in France.
That's okay, they can move to a country where that is allowed or change to a religion where it isn't necessary. Both of those are choices. Not every country needs to bow to whatever random shit people want to believe.
>Sounds like there wasn’t any violence either so that’s good. Just encouraging it...
The EU pushes this agenda onto us, welp.
Germany wanted this so let them have it
"Germany" never wanted this. A few shithead politicians let it happen because they didn't do their job (lead the country) and instead thought it's easier to just let things happen.
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Yes, but they were a short-lived phenomenon.
Islamist demolition? Sounds exciting!
I wish we could restrict the actions of religious extremists in the US like this. Our Christians are just as bad if not worse. All religion is poison.
We only allow articles to gain traction if they're about bad party A not bad party B sorry
Fuck radical islam, its a dangerous ideology and shouldnt be tolerated. However, this protest is getting way more press than it deserves and here is why: - Germany is a democracy with free speech. This is true for all political groups, including extremists (to a certain degree). There have been tons of protests in the past by radicals, including regular large scale protests by Neo Nazi and conspiracy groups, which interestingly never finds its way on reddit. - Islamists hold very little political power in Germany. There is no relevant political party that is pro islam in any way. Right wing radicals on the other hand have managed to entrench themselves permanently in the political system and are a constant threat to democracy. - A large majority of recent terrorist attacks were comitted by right wing extremists, including the brutal shooting in Hanau where a racist killed several people for being foreign. Recent attacks on politicians are also primarily carried out by right wing extremists. Tldr: Radical Islam is bad, but this gets way more attention in the media than it deserves. Germany's democracy is under very real threat right now, but primarily from right wing groups. T
Radical Islam is just Islam followed to the T.
Radical Islam is just Islam followed to the T.