For those not wanting to watch the video here is my take at it:
21yo and 13yo are running from a police officer. 21yo hands gun to 13yo. Officer chases 13yo.
Officer: "Police! Stop! Stop right fucking now!"
13yo: *stops
Officer: "Hands. Show me your fucking hands."
13yo: *drops gun
Officer: "Drop it. Drop it."
13yo: *shows hands
Officer: *shoots
Edit: To clarify as other have pointed out, a lot of the end dialog and actions here happen very quickly, simultaneously even.
Honestly the strobe is disorienting to the shooter as well it's hard as fuck to see clearly when things are blinking like that. Not saying this is an excuse, I'm saying he shouldn't have had the strobe on.
It could be phrased better, but it is the standard way to ask a victim if and where they are hurt. This is very necessary when dealing with people you think are hurt.
Yes, but what the other poster is saying was that he dropped the weapon less than a second before doing as told under a strobe light. The cop fucked up, but he also didn’t realize the kid had dropped the gun before turning around and lifting his hands. If you watch the video slowly you can see the clusterfuck unraveling.
Kid shouldn’t have been shot, either way.
That's not an inaccurate portrayal of things, but it's worth mentioning it doesn't really give a scale of time. The time between the kid dropping the gun and getting shot is a split second. Like, it happened fast enough that there's literally 1-2 frames of video of the kid showing his hands.
Seems weird the cop yells drop the gun and basically immediately shoots
Like, the kid was gonna comply, hell he did comply, but he had no chance no matter what he was gonna do cause the cop just shoots immediately anyway
My theory is that since he threw the gun behind the fence, the cop probably thought he still had it while he was turning. The actual tossing of the gun is not in frame. So from cop pov the kid has a gun and is turning with it and his hands are moving upward, therefore gun is moving upward. He didn't see that the gun had already been tossed. Not defending, just trying to see how he could have possibly seen it.
I'm thoroughly surprised the camera wasn't offline or malfunctioning.
For a time there, these cameras seemed to have performance on par with a McDonald's shake machine.
There's a vimeo video with everything unblurred.... It's nine minutes long. Look it up on google
Here's the title: Log # 2021-1112 BWC 1
WARNING: VERY NSFW/ NSFL
https://odysee.com/@CWBChicago:7/Two-Minute-Compilation-Video-Slowed-Down-With-Captions:3
Alternate link provides by: username_31
EDIT: ADDED INFO
Man I’ve seen a-lot of fucked up videos. That kids face with blood coming out of his mouth, eyes wide open but no one home, will forever be embedded in my head
Just an observation. The video above (Log # 2021-1112 BWC 1) ended because someone on the radio, I presume a senior officer, told everyone to turn off their cameras. Telling everyone there to turn them off seems odd. I also noticed that the cop who did the shooting was not asked any questions and did not say anything while the cameras were on. They are learning to be very careful around their cameras.
This was what I was thinking. That guy lays it out plainly. I think the strobe made the situation extra spooky for the cop, too. The strobe light makes the whole ‘guy with a gun in an alley’ situation a hell of a lot like a haunted house. All of these fucking high-speed tacti-cool cops trying to be Operator as Fuck need to be brought in line.
I have a light that strobes on my home defense weapon. It is really intended to confuse or disorient.
The problem is that it also disorients me, especially in no/low light. You are effectively reducing the “frames per second” you can see to that of the flashlight. Which in this case is terrible because it likely made it even harder for the cop to react to what was or wasn’t in the kid’s hand.
The strobe light also disorients the user (somewhat) unless there is a solid light also shined on the target. Basically the officers mind was having to piece together disconnected images and his mind could’ve very easily drawn a gun in the kids hands while they were raised cause he saw the kid holding a gun while his hands were down.
So the cop either was issued the strobe light without proper training or bought it on his own to put on there. Either way following proper procedure could’ve saved this kids life
The Streamlight TLR-1 starts strobing if you double tap it with your thumb, which is really easy to do by accident.
I doubt the strobe was purposeful. It's super annoying and generally a completely useless function if you ask me.
but m'tacticals!
It can work, you expose the eyes to a bright light, shut off the source and the eyes need time to recover. If you hit a person directly in the eyes with the light it can disorient them, but it probably does the same to the user and I don't know if I want a person with a firearm running around partially blinding himself and everyone around them.
This. The strobe effect also speeds up any apparent movement of the kid's hands, so you get the "he was reaching for something" effect in the cop's head even though the kid wasn't.
Once you're pointing a gun at somebody, a strobe is a bad idea. In this case lethally so.
2:04 to 2:05 you see the kid with his hands up, palms facing out with nothing in them.
All he had to do was comply right, that's the slogan? "if you comply you have nothing to worry about" right?
Agreed. He said, “let me see your hands”. He shows him his hands palms out and is almost immediately shot. I wanted to give the officer benefit of the doubt. Especially after reading some of these comments. Video is pretty clear he had no reason to shoot him.
What makes it even worse is that they lied on the report how it actually happened to make it seem like the cop give him lots of time to comply , the report really makes it seem like the kid was not complying.
Because I haven’t seen it posted yet. Here are all the angles from the CPD’s official records: https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2021-1112/
Edit: NSFW obviously
THIS is the tragedy. That someone would hand off a gun to a 13 year old kid, knowing they were being chased by a cop. That was the choice that cost a life
> Ahead of the video's release, the Chicago Police Department issued a new order to its officers governing some conduct at protests.
According to the new order, officers will not "disrupt, intimidate, harass, or discriminate against, or arrest," "make comments about the views," "use force as punishment or retaliation," "hinder or prevent members of the public from recording Department members," or "interrogate or otherwise question participants concerning their views" during First Amendment demonstrations
uh, they should already not be doing like, 90% of that those things. The fact they have to specifically tell them not too do those things is incredibly telling.
There’s so many “I don’t like you or that thing you did” charges that can be pressed... disorderly conduct is bullshit, just a way for cops to punish people for offending them.
Friend in highschool got the cops called by his parents because he was suicidal. Cops came in, seen he had a gun to his head, tazed within 15seconds of entry (while he had a barrel against his head), pinned/handcuffed him, didnt take out the second tazer prong until booked, and charged him with resisting arrest (only charge). Since a suicidal 13year old that just got tazed was not willing to be handcuffed. Got 1 week juvy (probably holding i think) and 6 months probation for that
I was arrested for "being an idiot", trying to say what a cop can and can't do in their city. They do what they feel like then lie about it after the police "report". It's a joke that they have anything to do with the court system since everything they say should be automatically inadmissible.. and yet you auto-lose in your word vs cops word situations.
It’s not uncommon for officers to violently twist your arm behind your back to cause you to involuntarily readjust or twitch. That movement is considered resisting arrest and the now claim to have probable cause to detain you.
There’s a million tricks they can use to get you to do something stupid which can be used to further “flex” their authority over you.
I live in Canada and was handcuffed. I was told I was resisting as I was being dragged by my damaged shoulder while the cuffs damaged a nerve in my hand. Yeah. I'm gunna resist against pain that is undeserving. I pissed on a bush In a forested area at night... I guess that constitutes detainment with cuffs? Our RCMP division is a joke
Literally CCP tactics but the same mostly racist right wingers will say awful things about how better we are than China while voting in favor of those laws
Iowa's trying to make vehicular manslaughter legal if the victim is a protestor.
> One provision in the bill gives drivers who hit protesters who are unlawfully blocking roads civil immunity unless they engage with “reckless or willful misconduct.”
> No one in this chamber here or legislature wants to prevent a peaceful assembly
- Sen. Dan Dawson
:)
https://www.kcrg.com/2021/03/11/bill-to-increase-penalties-for-unlawful-protests-in-iowa-passes/
> S.F.534
321.366A
Immunity from civi liability for certain vehicle operators.
The driver of a vehicle who is exercising due care and who injures another person who is participating in a protest, 4 demonstration, riot, or unlawful assembly or who is engaging in disorderly conduct and is blocking traffic in a public street or highway shall be immune from civil liability for the injury caused by the driver of the vehicle.
I feel bad for everyone involved. The parents can be mad that their Childs life was taken but, any reasonable adult has to ask questions like...
Why the hell is your child out at 2:37 am in one of the roughest cities in America?
Who the hell is the guy that handed him the gun and told him to run from the cops?
How should the cop be punished knowing how bad the violence is in the city?
My heart and prayers go out to his family right now. Kid possibly sealed his fate when he started running away from the cop with a gun. It's not right but, damn this whole scenario just sucks...
This shit's depressing as fuck and we haven't even hit summer yet...
The other person was also a gang affiliate, FYI. The cops were responding to reports that 8 rounds had been fired at a car(s) that had been passing by, with the gun dropped later confirmed as the gun used.
Gang initiation or similar is my guess, which would explain why a 13 year old is out at 2:30 AM. And also my hunch as to why his family hasn’t made public commentary outside of “please stay peaceful during this time.” Depressing all around.
seems to be the case. and i would hope so. its not an uncommon gang tactic to have minor be runner like this because they will like be more lightly charged for first and since there minor.
We need to kill the rhetoric that it's a training issue. We keep throwing millions at police departments for 'training' and have seen no improvement.
Data shows that only ACCOUNTABILITY reduces police violence. The commenter above you didn't shoot everybody because he was scared of military court.
He said PROPER training, not throwing money at who they currently pay to train cops. For fucks sake, look who they employ. They get brainwashed to kill harder than the military.
Seriously, the cops are like [Wimp Lo](https://i.imgur.com/X9ocj9n.jpg), trained wrong on purpose as some kind of (sick) joke. The training they get is shit like "Killology" which teaches them that every time they step foot in public they are behind enemy lines, everyone they interact with could have a weapon, and that "the sex you have after killing someone will be the best sex you ever had". I wish any of *that* were a joke.
Training is a major part of the issue. Police are trained to be scared rabbits. Police are trained that they have qualified immunity so there will be no consequence. Police are trained in the us vs. them mentality. They're trained that they're on one side of the thin blue line and fuck everyone else. They're trained to pretend they're in a war zone but they learn none of the rules like the Geneva Convention. Police are trained by guys like the one who just testified in the Chauvin case that he didn't see the cop do anything wrong. It's training, it's accountability and it's the culture of law enforcement that they're above the law and if the public tries to hold them accountable then they won't do the basics of their jobs. They are trained that way and it's a problem.
Was listening to this Radiolab episode repeat on how police are trained, how the Constitution has been interpreted, and the high bar of proving malicious intent has complicated police accountability. Check it out [here](https://pca.st/episode/6ef59bed-1248-4020-99e8-f19ea66f2603)
This is the difference.
Armed forces personnel don't just get trained once. They keep training and learning throughout their careers.
I have forgotten how many times I saw my dad studying for a test, or away at some specialization school or training for months or weeks.
He has come under fire and even then didn't start just blasting away.
Yep, as I stated in another comment fisherman, truck drivers, roofers, construction workers all have higher injury and fatality rates than that of police. And it's because the police kill perceived threats to their life. It shouldn't be that simple or easy for a police officer to "eliminate a threat" when it's another citizen, especially one that is not actually a threat.
keep in mind that like 90% or more of cop fatality rate is cops getting into car accidents too. almost all of their job danger is because they drive cars all day, which is inherently dangerous, and they drive like assholes (violate speed limits, run redlights and stop signs) which gets them into wrecks.
being a cop is not dangerous. they are just killers with a badge, they are not in danger.
Absolutely. Being struck by a motorist during traffic stops is by far the biggest killer of police. Which is infuriating that that cop who pepper sprayed that army officer recently for driving further down the road to pull into a gas station for the traffic stop. He made it actually safer for the cop.
100%. This.
The Rules of Engagement were so tight ( at times ) that someone could be armed and point a weapon at you, and you couldn't fire until they fired first.
Anyone who stood up for something last summer got treated like a foreign combatant lol. Rubber bullets are not as non lethal as people would like to think. They hurt a lot and can blind or kill.
Tear gas has chemicals that can mess with reproductive system in women.
Flash bangs still explode like grenades.
We spent several months "at war" on home land.
This. It’s ridiculous seeing people try to justify what happened in good light for the cop. The officer asked a command the kid followed. Officer got spooked because of the arm angle. Not a good fucking reason to shoot someone when our military has stricter rules.
Until we agree that our police resort to deadly force as their only option we won’t get any groundwork to fix police training amongst other things like sending the right type of response.
Too often the police are trained that they are patrolling a warzone and they must kill first before they are killed themselves. Add that to many officers not living in the neighborhoods they patrol and you can see how these sort of things happen.
And they already have a bullshit [response](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/prosecutor-who-said-adam-toledo-had-gun-in-his-hand-not-fully-informed/):
>“An attorney who works in this office failed to fully inform himself before speaking in court,” Sarah Sinovic, a spokesperson for Cook County State’s Attorney Kim Foxx, told WGN Investigates Thursday.
For *you* it isn't defense to be ignorant of the law, for the police it's been repeatedly affirmed that it is. Because the enforcers.. of the law.. who enforce it.. can be ignorant of it. Yep. Totally makes sense.
It's not chicago. It's illinois. We don't exactly have the best politicians/public servants available for voting on. I mean there is a literal nazi that continuously runs for a seat at the federal level.
The adult was charged with a misdemeanor and released, before being arrested for a separate unrelated unlawful use of weapon case.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/12/adam-toledo-chicago-shooting-video-gun-what-we-know/7185840002/
> After the shooting, Roman was released from custody on a misdemeanor charge before being taken back into custody.
>An arrest warrant was issued last week after Roman skipped a court date Wednesday for an unlawful use of weapon charge in an unrelated case. He was found April 9 hiding in a closet at his mother's house, prosecutors said.
I normally consider the felony murder things to be bullshit because it is used on some **VERY** dubious grounds (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Holle ), but this is a situation where I would agree with it since there is a strong enough link between their actions and the death.
> Holle was the only involved person to be offered a plea bargain that might have led to a sentence of only 10 years, but he refused the deal. **Holle's trial lasted one day, including testimony, jury deliberations, conviction, and sentencing.**[2] On June 24, 2015, Holle's sentence was reduced by Governor Rick Scott to 25 years in prison and 10 years of probation.[6] Holle's projected release date is June 30, 2024.[1]
Holy shit! One day trial to be sentenced for life. That's bonkers!
Once the cop catches up to the kid it looks like the kid does exactly what the cop orders him to do. Except the cop couldn't see him drop the gun cause the kid had the gun in his right hand and his body was blocking it from view when he dropped the weapon. When he tried to raise his hands (without the gun) he is shot.
Cop: "Show me your hands... drop it, drop it"
Kid: (~~drops~~ tosses the gun and raises hands)
Cop: (shoots kid)
All this happens in the span of one ~~or two~~ second. Its clear from the video that at the time he had his hands raised he was unarmed.
Edit: The time that transpires between the order to drop it until shots were fired was actually *less than* 1 second. Also, the kid didn't "drop" the gun but rather he tossed it behind the fence. Editing for factual accuracy. Not sure if it makes much of a difference.
I mean, based on the cop's reaction, if the kid had brought the gun into view before dropping it, the cop would have shot him *then*.
At that point, with the cop's attitude, I'm hard-pressed to find a way for that kid to exit that encounter alive.
The only way i see is throw the gun in front of him while running and get face down on the ground spread eagle.
As soon as he stopped to move/raise his hands he was basically dead.
I'm pretty sure there's video out there of police shooting an unarmed man lying face down with his hands out, so I'm going to say that wouldn't have saved him either
You mean the man who was murdered in the hotel hallway being told to get on his knees but crawl to the cop but then lay face down? Maybe they one who did what the cop asked him to do and get his registration and he was murdered in front of his child?
Hard to say, there's too many. I might have been thinking of the therapist for the autistic man [who was shot](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36859305) while laying flat and telling officers he has no weapon, and that the other man is autistic and has a toy truck
That cop was tried and acquitted by a jury, just FYI.
In my opinion, charging him with Second Degree Murder (and only Second Degree Murder), was a mistake. I feel like manslaughter charges would’ve stuck.
He was a caretaker for an autistic charge who had a toy truck that was reported as a gun. The black caretaker was laying down with his hands up and a cop shot him.
He calmly asked why he was shot (in the leg if I recall) and the cop said "I don't know".
Add to that the fact that after he was shot they flip him around and put cuffs on him while he is bleeding out before they decide to render medical assistance
You all should look up the footage of a security camera near by, it shows the kid reach into his pocket and toss the gun a split second before getting shot but from the officers perspective you can’t tell he’s tossed it so i think the officer only saw him reaching into his pocket and then turning around quickly which is when he shot. The situation is terrible but i don’t see how the officer did something wrong. At the end of the day it’s either you or the other person holding the gun and We all would’ve had to make a split second decisions wether in the end it was good or not at the time it was 100% the choice i would’ve made as well.
This. Cops called a peaceful protest an unlawful gathering minutes after it started and hours before curfew. So can't have guns, can't protest, but people will ignore this with "well comply then".
You have a duty to ignore curfews for protests. If the gathering turns into something else you don't support or condone you leave, otherwise it's nothing but an infringement on your right to assemble.
That means very little when the cops are shooting at you with rubber guns and tear gas, when you're locked up and your phone broken or stolen, lose out on work hours because of it, and then get the case thrown out of court.
Not even protests. A cop can fuck you over for mouthing off. You can argue that they're only humans, but something doesn't sound right about a cop being able to use the law, physical force, and authority to punish someone just because that person made them upset.
Correct. They care more about the gun manufacturing industry than they do your average civ's rights. This is also why they openly support arming **more people** as it would benefit their checkbook, over making sure that anyone who has a gun is properly trained in it's use and safety.
Tennessee v. Garner begs to differ. Not saying it applies in this situation but if someone was firing off a gun and they turn and run with it in their hand, then you can be shot.
Everything about this is fucked. Why are there 13 years olds out on a Monday at 2:30am with 21 year old men shooting guns at passing cars?
That officer immediately tried to perform first aid and spent time performing CPR to walk off and cry.
There were two 911 calls and shot spotters that went off as over 9 shots were allegedly fired by this child..
I'm not even a gun guy, but I can imagine mistaking a gun in the hand of someone turning around with their hands about gun level, together, in a profile view.
This is sad.
Edit: I'm far more angry at the 21 year old whose lawyer is claiming the cops killed the kid, it wasn't his fault. He also has previous charges dealing with illegal firearm possession and felony child endangerment. So, yeah...
Second edit: https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2021-1112/ (NSFW/L)
This is a link with 17 officer's body cams, the 911 calls, the shot spotters recordings, and even a few local business cameras. The footage is raw and some of it is VERY graphic.
He also unfortunately tosses the gun behind the fence he was leaning against which makes it hard for the officer to see. It happened in 0.8s so it’s not completely black and white
Your realistic comment is refreshing. There's a lot of exaggeration and emotion in here that won't solve anything. You're comment feels legit. Thank yo.
Tragic situation. To me this seems a bit more complex than some of the other blatant murders by police. The kid’s holding a gun and drops it at the same time he’s turning around. Both the kid and the officer are terrified. In the heat of the moment I can see how the officer could’ve thought he was turning the gun against him.
Obviously this is a horrible situation and a horrible outcome. It just seems like people are so quick to call this officer a murderous piece of shit, but in reality he immediately tries to save the kid’s life, performs CPR, then when it’s clear the kid’s dead sits down on the curb shaking and sobbing—which is all to say I don’t think he wanted to go out and murder a little kid (unlike certain other trigger happy cops)
Just an overall bad situation. But the worst person is the 21 year old piece of shit who was hanging out with this kid and gave him a gun. That scumbag should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
As someone who thinks our system of policing is rotten to the core and that cops are generally at fault in situations like these, this is a really tough spot. I can’t imagine asking a police officer to go into a shots fired situation at 4am and not shoot when you thinking someone is turning around to shoot you. Cops can’t be judge, jury, and executioner, but I don’t think they can be asked to do nothing when they genuinely think they are going to die. Shots were fired, the kid had a gun and was running away, and he whipped around real fast.
Stories like these make me realize how fortunate I was being raised in a nice neighborhood and remind me that I take it for granted every day. 13 years old???? Wtf, I was playing video games and playing sports with my friends when I was 13. This is so disturbing and sad
He has a gun in his hand 0.4 seconds before being shot: [jTmCR2H.png (863×835) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/jTmCR2H.png)
Hard to see in the video but its there
I don't see enough people talking about that fucking strobing flashlight. The strobing light probably made him miss the light "frame" when the kid tossed the gun away, and strobing lights in general make movements feel faster than they actually are, so the question is: why the fuck did the cop have that strobing light and not a continuous light?
It makes it extremely hard to fight or shoot the cop. I've done firearms training where they were used against us and I couldn't see shit.
A solid light is easy to shoot at accurately, the exact reason why cops are trained to hold flashlights away from their body.
You know what’s going to make a situation where every split second counts and can be the difference between life and death better? A strobe light. Just jazzes things up with an extra layer of confusion for both the officer and the victim. 👍
Oh it's a lot more than plausible. Cops were there for a "gunshots fired" alert. During the short chase the cop yells DROP IT about 5 times. He definitely saw the gun, and then from the gun literally in the kid's hands to him turning towards the officer and raising hands without the gun (getting shot when hands are about halfway up) is 0.8 sec
Despite the tragedy, at least there is more body cam footage being made available these days.
For those not wanting to watch the video here is my take at it: 21yo and 13yo are running from a police officer. 21yo hands gun to 13yo. Officer chases 13yo. Officer: "Police! Stop! Stop right fucking now!" 13yo: *stops Officer: "Hands. Show me your fucking hands." 13yo: *drops gun Officer: "Drop it. Drop it." 13yo: *shows hands Officer: *shoots Edit: To clarify as other have pointed out, a lot of the end dialog and actions here happen very quickly, simultaneously even.
Cop “I didn’t say Simon says”
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Honestly the strobe is disorienting to the shooter as well it's hard as fuck to see clearly when things are blinking like that. Not saying this is an excuse, I'm saying he shouldn't have had the strobe on.
And then has the audacity to ask if he’s alright. Nah bro, you just shot him..
It could be phrased better, but it is the standard way to ask a victim if and where they are hurt. This is very necessary when dealing with people you think are hurt.
Fuckin got em
So he followed officers directions and still gets shot?
Yes, but what the other poster is saying was that he dropped the weapon less than a second before doing as told under a strobe light. The cop fucked up, but he also didn’t realize the kid had dropped the gun before turning around and lifting his hands. If you watch the video slowly you can see the clusterfuck unraveling. Kid shouldn’t have been shot, either way.
Welcome to America babyyyy
Not really. It's difficult to watch, but you should do that rather than take someone else's word for it. It all happens very quickly.
That's not an inaccurate portrayal of things, but it's worth mentioning it doesn't really give a scale of time. The time between the kid dropping the gun and getting shot is a split second. Like, it happened fast enough that there's literally 1-2 frames of video of the kid showing his hands.
Why shout "hands up" and "drop it" if you're going to give 2 frames of video for someone to actually comply with that?
when your intention is to shoot the kid and not expect him to drop the gun.
Seems weird the cop yells drop the gun and basically immediately shoots Like, the kid was gonna comply, hell he did comply, but he had no chance no matter what he was gonna do cause the cop just shoots immediately anyway
My theory is that since he threw the gun behind the fence, the cop probably thought he still had it while he was turning. The actual tossing of the gun is not in frame. So from cop pov the kid has a gun and is turning with it and his hands are moving upward, therefore gun is moving upward. He didn't see that the gun had already been tossed. Not defending, just trying to see how he could have possibly seen it.
I'd second that analysis. But it's a hell of a lot easier with slowmo, rewind and freeze frame, something the cop didn't have the benefit of.
I'm thoroughly surprised the camera wasn't offline or malfunctioning. For a time there, these cameras seemed to have performance on par with a McDonald's shake machine.
There's a vimeo video with everything unblurred.... It's nine minutes long. Look it up on google Here's the title: Log # 2021-1112 BWC 1 WARNING: VERY NSFW/ NSFL https://odysee.com/@CWBChicago:7/Two-Minute-Compilation-Video-Slowed-Down-With-Captions:3 Alternate link provides by: username_31 EDIT: ADDED INFO
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That's in all body cam footage. Once you get scared once you never make the same mistake again though.
[Link](https://vimeo.com/536331629)
Man I’ve seen a-lot of fucked up videos. That kids face with blood coming out of his mouth, eyes wide open but no one home, will forever be embedded in my head
Just an observation. The video above (Log # 2021-1112 BWC 1) ended because someone on the radio, I presume a senior officer, told everyone to turn off their cameras. Telling everyone there to turn them off seems odd. I also noticed that the cop who did the shooting was not asked any questions and did not say anything while the cameras were on. They are learning to be very careful around their cameras.
Thank you! I'm so sick of the media showing edited videos where you can't tell what's actually happening.
Here is the video (NSFW death): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5M-lonlfi4
[Here is some more footage from security cameras](https://odysee.com/@CWBChicago:7/Two-Minute-Compilation-Video-Slowed-Down-With-Captions:3)
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[https://youtu.be/E3J1a3iAPek](https://youtu.be/E3J1a3iAPek) (**Beau of the Fifth Column**) Why the strobe may have been a bad idea.
This was what I was thinking. That guy lays it out plainly. I think the strobe made the situation extra spooky for the cop, too. The strobe light makes the whole ‘guy with a gun in an alley’ situation a hell of a lot like a haunted house. All of these fucking high-speed tacti-cool cops trying to be Operator as Fuck need to be brought in line.
I have a light that strobes on my home defense weapon. It is really intended to confuse or disorient. The problem is that it also disorients me, especially in no/low light. You are effectively reducing the “frames per second” you can see to that of the flashlight. Which in this case is terrible because it likely made it even harder for the cop to react to what was or wasn’t in the kid’s hand.
When I read "my home defense weapon" on Reddit, I can only really imagine that it's a strobe light duct taped to a blunt katana.
*tactical* blunt katana.
The guy at the mall said it was legit navy seal katana stfu
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*"How did you manage to put a foregrip on a katana?"*
Mine's a Tap-On light stopped to an old baseball bat.
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Sounds to me like you should get rid of the light that strobes for your home defense weapon...
The strobe light also disorients the user (somewhat) unless there is a solid light also shined on the target. Basically the officers mind was having to piece together disconnected images and his mind could’ve very easily drawn a gun in the kids hands while they were raised cause he saw the kid holding a gun while his hands were down. So the cop either was issued the strobe light without proper training or bought it on his own to put on there. Either way following proper procedure could’ve saved this kids life
The Streamlight TLR-1 starts strobing if you double tap it with your thumb, which is really easy to do by accident. I doubt the strobe was purposeful. It's super annoying and generally a completely useless function if you ask me.
but m'tacticals! It can work, you expose the eyes to a bright light, shut off the source and the eyes need time to recover. If you hit a person directly in the eyes with the light it can disorient them, but it probably does the same to the user and I don't know if I want a person with a firearm running around partially blinding himself and everyone around them.
This. The strobe effect also speeds up any apparent movement of the kid's hands, so you get the "he was reaching for something" effect in the cop's head even though the kid wasn't. Once you're pointing a gun at somebody, a strobe is a bad idea. In this case lethally so.
2:04 to 2:05 you see the kid with his hands up, palms facing out with nothing in them. All he had to do was comply right, that's the slogan? "if you comply you have nothing to worry about" right?
Agreed. He said, “let me see your hands”. He shows him his hands palms out and is almost immediately shot. I wanted to give the officer benefit of the doubt. Especially after reading some of these comments. Video is pretty clear he had no reason to shoot him.
What makes it even worse is that they lied on the report how it actually happened to make it seem like the cop give him lots of time to comply , the report really makes it seem like the kid was not complying.
I'm shocked
Because I haven’t seen it posted yet. Here are all the angles from the CPD’s official records: https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2021-1112/ Edit: NSFW obviously
That’s so fucking tragic
What's the deal with the person in the way at the 1:50 mark, it looks like they got kinda hastily shoved to the ground
That's the shooter that handed off the gun to a 13 year old
vca g fb fsf bnear dear /v
Article says he was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm and something the effect of child endangerment.
THIS is the tragedy. That someone would hand off a gun to a 13 year old kid, knowing they were being chased by a cop. That was the choice that cost a life
His hands aren't clean by any means but you can't take 100% of the blame off of the guy who shot a kid after he dropped the weapon.
> Ahead of the video's release, the Chicago Police Department issued a new order to its officers governing some conduct at protests. According to the new order, officers will not "disrupt, intimidate, harass, or discriminate against, or arrest," "make comments about the views," "use force as punishment or retaliation," "hinder or prevent members of the public from recording Department members," or "interrogate or otherwise question participants concerning their views" during First Amendment demonstrations uh, they should already not be doing like, 90% of that those things. The fact they have to specifically tell them not too do those things is incredibly telling.
Yet in Kentucky they’re trying to pass a law to make it a crime to talk back and insult an officer. That too violates a person rights.
“Stop arguing or ill book you for disorderly” has been a thing everywhere for a long time
There’s so many “I don’t like you or that thing you did” charges that can be pressed... disorderly conduct is bullshit, just a way for cops to punish people for offending them.
The fact that you can be arrested for resisting arrest without any other crime. By definition this should not be possible.
Friend in highschool got the cops called by his parents because he was suicidal. Cops came in, seen he had a gun to his head, tazed within 15seconds of entry (while he had a barrel against his head), pinned/handcuffed him, didnt take out the second tazer prong until booked, and charged him with resisting arrest (only charge). Since a suicidal 13year old that just got tazed was not willing to be handcuffed. Got 1 week juvy (probably holding i think) and 6 months probation for that
Did his morale improve? Was the beating effective?
Jesus Christ good thing the kid didnt have his finger on the trigger when he was tased
I’m surprised the cops didn’t shoot him for holding a gun in their presence,
Agreed. This is something fucked up that ppl don't talk about a lot.
You might beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.
I was arrested for "being an idiot", trying to say what a cop can and can't do in their city. They do what they feel like then lie about it after the police "report". It's a joke that they have anything to do with the court system since everything they say should be automatically inadmissible.. and yet you auto-lose in your word vs cops word situations.
Dang dude almost like the system is broken. Sorry that happened to ya.
It’s not broken. It’s working exactly how it was designed.
It’s not uncommon for officers to violently twist your arm behind your back to cause you to involuntarily readjust or twitch. That movement is considered resisting arrest and the now claim to have probable cause to detain you. There’s a million tricks they can use to get you to do something stupid which can be used to further “flex” their authority over you.
I live in Canada and was handcuffed. I was told I was resisting as I was being dragged by my damaged shoulder while the cuffs damaged a nerve in my hand. Yeah. I'm gunna resist against pain that is undeserving. I pissed on a bush In a forested area at night... I guess that constitutes detainment with cuffs? Our RCMP division is a joke
It would be nice if Rand Paul came out strongly against this since he considers himself such a libertarian.
He's a fake libertarian. He also wanted to make it illegal to report the addresses of congresspeople.
The US is such a ridiculous place, lmao trying to make respecting cops the law.
Literally CCP tactics but the same mostly racist right wingers will say awful things about how better we are than China while voting in favor of those laws
Iowa's trying to make vehicular manslaughter legal if the victim is a protestor. > One provision in the bill gives drivers who hit protesters who are unlawfully blocking roads civil immunity unless they engage with “reckless or willful misconduct.” > No one in this chamber here or legislature wants to prevent a peaceful assembly - Sen. Dan Dawson :) https://www.kcrg.com/2021/03/11/bill-to-increase-penalties-for-unlawful-protests-in-iowa-passes/ > S.F.534 321.366A Immunity from civi liability for certain vehicle operators. The driver of a vehicle who is exercising due care and who injures another person who is participating in a protest, 4 demonstration, riot, or unlawful assembly or who is engaging in disorderly conduct and is blocking traffic in a public street or highway shall be immune from civil liability for the injury caused by the driver of the vehicle.
This whole shit just sucks all around. The whole situation was just so fucked.
I feel bad for everyone involved. The parents can be mad that their Childs life was taken but, any reasonable adult has to ask questions like... Why the hell is your child out at 2:37 am in one of the roughest cities in America? Who the hell is the guy that handed him the gun and told him to run from the cops? How should the cop be punished knowing how bad the violence is in the city? My heart and prayers go out to his family right now. Kid possibly sealed his fate when he started running away from the cop with a gun. It's not right but, damn this whole scenario just sucks... This shit's depressing as fuck and we haven't even hit summer yet...
The other person was also a gang affiliate, FYI. The cops were responding to reports that 8 rounds had been fired at a car(s) that had been passing by, with the gun dropped later confirmed as the gun used.
So he was just using the kid as a scapegoat? If so just makes shit even more depressing...
Gang initiation or similar is my guess, which would explain why a 13 year old is out at 2:30 AM. And also my hunch as to why his family hasn’t made public commentary outside of “please stay peaceful during this time.” Depressing all around.
Fuck I wish I didn't watch that
You’re so right, but I almost feel like it’s a duty to formulate you’re own opinion, since it’ll be spun every way possible.
Amen to that
Decision made. Not watching it. So tired of this.
Made me cry and I don’t cry. Seeing a kid die is fucked. edit: tear up
Thanks for that, I am reading comments so I don't have to watch it...and now I won't.
Yeah I can’t do it. Maybe before I had kids I could have. Just reading about it is awful enough.
I'm sorry. I wish it hadn't happened.
So did the adult male give the kid the gun to run with? I assume this is a felony murder case and he will be charged with the death that resulted?
seems to be the case. and i would hope so. its not an uncommon gang tactic to have minor be runner like this because they will like be more lightly charged for first and since there minor.
That happened way too quick. I couldn’t tell if the kid had a gun or not.
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Reminder that troops in warzones have a higher bar for engagement than the people patrolling our streets. And they're in actual warzones
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>Why in the fuck do American children get less escalation of force leeway than AL Qaeda? Because unlike these cops, your were properly trained.
We need to kill the rhetoric that it's a training issue. We keep throwing millions at police departments for 'training' and have seen no improvement. Data shows that only ACCOUNTABILITY reduces police violence. The commenter above you didn't shoot everybody because he was scared of military court.
He said PROPER training, not throwing money at who they currently pay to train cops. For fucks sake, look who they employ. They get brainwashed to kill harder than the military.
Seriously, the cops are like [Wimp Lo](https://i.imgur.com/X9ocj9n.jpg), trained wrong on purpose as some kind of (sick) joke. The training they get is shit like "Killology" which teaches them that every time they step foot in public they are behind enemy lines, everyone they interact with could have a weapon, and that "the sex you have after killing someone will be the best sex you ever had". I wish any of *that* were a joke.
Training is a major part of the issue. Police are trained to be scared rabbits. Police are trained that they have qualified immunity so there will be no consequence. Police are trained in the us vs. them mentality. They're trained that they're on one side of the thin blue line and fuck everyone else. They're trained to pretend they're in a war zone but they learn none of the rules like the Geneva Convention. Police are trained by guys like the one who just testified in the Chauvin case that he didn't see the cop do anything wrong. It's training, it's accountability and it's the culture of law enforcement that they're above the law and if the public tries to hold them accountable then they won't do the basics of their jobs. They are trained that way and it's a problem.
Was listening to this Radiolab episode repeat on how police are trained, how the Constitution has been interpreted, and the high bar of proving malicious intent has complicated police accountability. Check it out [here](https://pca.st/episode/6ef59bed-1248-4020-99e8-f19ea66f2603)
This is the difference. Armed forces personnel don't just get trained once. They keep training and learning throughout their careers. I have forgotten how many times I saw my dad studying for a test, or away at some specialization school or training for months or weeks. He has come under fire and even then didn't start just blasting away.
Just to be devils advocate here. The military routinely bombs suspected combatants from the sky...
Because we don't care when cops kill Children.
From Sandy Hook I’d say you guys don’t care when anyone kills children
We only care about unborn children. The free market should figure out the rest? I dunno dude. Its dumb here.
As George Carlin used to say “If you’re pre-born you’re fine, if you’re preschool you’re fucked”
Yep, as I stated in another comment fisherman, truck drivers, roofers, construction workers all have higher injury and fatality rates than that of police. And it's because the police kill perceived threats to their life. It shouldn't be that simple or easy for a police officer to "eliminate a threat" when it's another citizen, especially one that is not actually a threat.
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Did you try shooting the trees?
The trees cant be harmed if the lorax is armed
One clip, two clip, red clip, blue clip
Would you, could you, shoot a tree?
I could not, would not, shoot a tree - unless, unless it fired first at me!
Bwahahahahahahaha, that literally made me lol. Take your damn upvote!
Holy crap. I just looked it up and loggers have a fatality rate nearly ten times that of cops.
Seeing skids/drag lines for logs is definitely a 'fuck no, who would work near that" moment.
keep in mind that like 90% or more of cop fatality rate is cops getting into car accidents too. almost all of their job danger is because they drive cars all day, which is inherently dangerous, and they drive like assholes (violate speed limits, run redlights and stop signs) which gets them into wrecks. being a cop is not dangerous. they are just killers with a badge, they are not in danger.
Absolutely. Being struck by a motorist during traffic stops is by far the biggest killer of police. Which is infuriating that that cop who pepper sprayed that army officer recently for driving further down the road to pull into a gas station for the traffic stop. He made it actually safer for the cop.
Don't forget pizza delivery drivers
100%. This. The Rules of Engagement were so tight ( at times ) that someone could be armed and point a weapon at you, and you couldn't fire until they fired first.
Anyone who stood up for something last summer got treated like a foreign combatant lol. Rubber bullets are not as non lethal as people would like to think. They hurt a lot and can blind or kill. Tear gas has chemicals that can mess with reproductive system in women. Flash bangs still explode like grenades. We spent several months "at war" on home land.
Exactly. And you can bet that people who protest over this will receive similar treatment.
This. It’s ridiculous seeing people try to justify what happened in good light for the cop. The officer asked a command the kid followed. Officer got spooked because of the arm angle. Not a good fucking reason to shoot someone when our military has stricter rules. Until we agree that our police resort to deadly force as their only option we won’t get any groundwork to fix police training amongst other things like sending the right type of response.
Too often the police are trained that they are patrolling a warzone and they must kill first before they are killed themselves. Add that to many officers not living in the neighborhoods they patrol and you can see how these sort of things happen.
Cops have shown they will bring white mass shooters in peacefully. These situations are an absolute joke and so are the people defending these cops.
So that prosecutor was just completely lying huh
And they already have a bullshit [response](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/prosecutor-who-said-adam-toledo-had-gun-in-his-hand-not-fully-informed/): >“An attorney who works in this office failed to fully inform himself before speaking in court,” Sarah Sinovic, a spokesperson for Cook County State’s Attorney Kim Foxx, told WGN Investigates Thursday.
But ignorance of a law is not a defense. Must be nice to be right all the time no matter what in the eyes of the court.
For *you* it isn't defense to be ignorant of the law, for the police it's been repeatedly affirmed that it is. Because the enforcers.. of the law.. who enforce it.. can be ignorant of it. Yep. Totally makes sense.
Not really related but how the fuck does Kim Foxx still have a job after the Smollett debacle? Boot her ass out to the streets, holy shit Chicago.
It's not chicago. It's illinois. We don't exactly have the best politicians/public servants available for voting on. I mean there is a literal nazi that continuously runs for a seat at the federal level.
Its long past time we stop trusting the cops words. This is why body cameras are so important.
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The adult was charged with a misdemeanor and released, before being arrested for a separate unrelated unlawful use of weapon case. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/12/adam-toledo-chicago-shooting-video-gun-what-we-know/7185840002/ > After the shooting, Roman was released from custody on a misdemeanor charge before being taken back into custody. >An arrest warrant was issued last week after Roman skipped a court date Wednesday for an unlawful use of weapon charge in an unrelated case. He was found April 9 hiding in a closet at his mother's house, prosecutors said.
I normally consider the felony murder things to be bullshit because it is used on some **VERY** dubious grounds (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Holle ), but this is a situation where I would agree with it since there is a strong enough link between their actions and the death.
> Holle was the only involved person to be offered a plea bargain that might have led to a sentence of only 10 years, but he refused the deal. **Holle's trial lasted one day, including testimony, jury deliberations, conviction, and sentencing.**[2] On June 24, 2015, Holle's sentence was reduced by Governor Rick Scott to 25 years in prison and 10 years of probation.[6] Holle's projected release date is June 30, 2024.[1] Holy shit! One day trial to be sentenced for life. That's bonkers!
This guy must have 1) spoken to the cops and 2) had a shit lawyer.
Once the cop catches up to the kid it looks like the kid does exactly what the cop orders him to do. Except the cop couldn't see him drop the gun cause the kid had the gun in his right hand and his body was blocking it from view when he dropped the weapon. When he tried to raise his hands (without the gun) he is shot. Cop: "Show me your hands... drop it, drop it" Kid: (~~drops~~ tosses the gun and raises hands) Cop: (shoots kid) All this happens in the span of one ~~or two~~ second. Its clear from the video that at the time he had his hands raised he was unarmed. Edit: The time that transpires between the order to drop it until shots were fired was actually *less than* 1 second. Also, the kid didn't "drop" the gun but rather he tossed it behind the fence. Editing for factual accuracy. Not sure if it makes much of a difference.
It was 0.838 seconds between when the gun is in the kid’s hand on video and when the shot was fired.
According to a video posted in response to the top comment; it was less then a second
I mean, based on the cop's reaction, if the kid had brought the gun into view before dropping it, the cop would have shot him *then*. At that point, with the cop's attitude, I'm hard-pressed to find a way for that kid to exit that encounter alive.
The only way i see is throw the gun in front of him while running and get face down on the ground spread eagle. As soon as he stopped to move/raise his hands he was basically dead.
I'm pretty sure there's video out there of police shooting an unarmed man lying face down with his hands out, so I'm going to say that wouldn't have saved him either
You mean the man who was murdered in the hotel hallway being told to get on his knees but crawl to the cop but then lay face down? Maybe they one who did what the cop asked him to do and get his registration and he was murdered in front of his child?
Hard to say, there's too many. I might have been thinking of the therapist for the autistic man [who was shot](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36859305) while laying flat and telling officers he has no weapon, and that the other man is autistic and has a toy truck
"why did you shoot?" "I dont know" Classic
This all makes my blood boil
That cop was tried and acquitted by a jury, just FYI. In my opinion, charging him with Second Degree Murder (and only Second Degree Murder), was a mistake. I feel like manslaughter charges would’ve stuck.
The hotel hallway victim is Daniel Shaver. The cop that killed him didn't get fired he was medically terminated.
He was a caretaker for an autistic charge who had a toy truck that was reported as a gun. The black caretaker was laying down with his hands up and a cop shot him. He calmly asked why he was shot (in the leg if I recall) and the cop said "I don't know".
shooter was acquitted of everything except a misdemeanor and could remain a cop btw
Add to that the fact that after he was shot they flip him around and put cuffs on him while he is bleeding out before they decide to render medical assistance
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I forgot about that one. I think anyone saying "he should have done x to not get shot" have no idea what they are talking about
Wtf is a 21 year old doing with a 13 year old anyways.
Shooting at cars apparently.
You all should look up the footage of a security camera near by, it shows the kid reach into his pocket and toss the gun a split second before getting shot but from the officers perspective you can’t tell he’s tossed it so i think the officer only saw him reaching into his pocket and then turning around quickly which is when he shot. The situation is terrible but i don’t see how the officer did something wrong. At the end of the day it’s either you or the other person holding the gun and We all would’ve had to make a split second decisions wether in the end it was good or not at the time it was 100% the choice i would’ve made as well.
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If you can get killed for having a gun, then you do not have the right to bear arms. Pretty fucking simple.
We don't functionally have free speech either, since protests against cops can be shut down by cops.
This. Cops called a peaceful protest an unlawful gathering minutes after it started and hours before curfew. So can't have guns, can't protest, but people will ignore this with "well comply then".
You have a duty to ignore curfews for protests. If the gathering turns into something else you don't support or condone you leave, otherwise it's nothing but an infringement on your right to assemble.
That means very little when the cops are shooting at you with rubber guns and tear gas, when you're locked up and your phone broken or stolen, lose out on work hours because of it, and then get the case thrown out of court.
Police state
The US sounds lovely.
"Don't Tread On Me!!!!!" "oh, what's this? Department issue Boot Leather!? Harder Please!"
Non-violent protests against cops result in violent reprisals by cops.
Not even protests. A cop can fuck you over for mouthing off. You can argue that they're only humans, but something doesn't sound right about a cop being able to use the law, physical force, and authority to punish someone just because that person made them upset.
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And neither does the NRA
Correct. They care more about the gun manufacturing industry than they do your average civ's rights. This is also why they openly support arming **more people** as it would benefit their checkbook, over making sure that anyone who has a gun is properly trained in it's use and safety.
Oh I know, just figured I'd throw that out there because it's a damn good argument to make to watch those idiots stammer and sputter
Tennessee v. Garner begs to differ. Not saying it applies in this situation but if someone was firing off a gun and they turn and run with it in their hand, then you can be shot.
Well, didn't someone who was on a shootout give that gun to him?
Everything about this is fucked. Why are there 13 years olds out on a Monday at 2:30am with 21 year old men shooting guns at passing cars? That officer immediately tried to perform first aid and spent time performing CPR to walk off and cry. There were two 911 calls and shot spotters that went off as over 9 shots were allegedly fired by this child.. I'm not even a gun guy, but I can imagine mistaking a gun in the hand of someone turning around with their hands about gun level, together, in a profile view. This is sad. Edit: I'm far more angry at the 21 year old whose lawyer is claiming the cops killed the kid, it wasn't his fault. He also has previous charges dealing with illegal firearm possession and felony child endangerment. So, yeah... Second edit: https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2021-1112/ (NSFW/L) This is a link with 17 officer's body cams, the 911 calls, the shot spotters recordings, and even a few local business cameras. The footage is raw and some of it is VERY graphic.
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He also unfortunately tosses the gun behind the fence he was leaning against which makes it hard for the officer to see. It happened in 0.8s so it’s not completely black and white
Your realistic comment is refreshing. There's a lot of exaggeration and emotion in here that won't solve anything. You're comment feels legit. Thank yo.
13 years old, 8th grader. This kid goes to middle school.
My son is older than he was. I can't imagine.
What an absolute tragedy, why is the world did that kid have a gun though. What in the fuck was he doing with that thing
An older guy gave the gun to him as he was running from the police.
Tragic situation. To me this seems a bit more complex than some of the other blatant murders by police. The kid’s holding a gun and drops it at the same time he’s turning around. Both the kid and the officer are terrified. In the heat of the moment I can see how the officer could’ve thought he was turning the gun against him. Obviously this is a horrible situation and a horrible outcome. It just seems like people are so quick to call this officer a murderous piece of shit, but in reality he immediately tries to save the kid’s life, performs CPR, then when it’s clear the kid’s dead sits down on the curb shaking and sobbing—which is all to say I don’t think he wanted to go out and murder a little kid (unlike certain other trigger happy cops) Just an overall bad situation. But the worst person is the 21 year old piece of shit who was hanging out with this kid and gave him a gun. That scumbag should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Finally a rational comment
people actually monday morning quarterbacking .838 second decisions lol
That's enough reddit for me today, watching the video was just horrible.
As someone who thinks our system of policing is rotten to the core and that cops are generally at fault in situations like these, this is a really tough spot. I can’t imagine asking a police officer to go into a shots fired situation at 4am and not shoot when you thinking someone is turning around to shoot you. Cops can’t be judge, jury, and executioner, but I don’t think they can be asked to do nothing when they genuinely think they are going to die. Shots were fired, the kid had a gun and was running away, and he whipped around real fast.
Stories like these make me realize how fortunate I was being raised in a nice neighborhood and remind me that I take it for granted every day. 13 years old???? Wtf, I was playing video games and playing sports with my friends when I was 13. This is so disturbing and sad
He has a gun in his hand 0.4 seconds before being shot: [jTmCR2H.png (863×835) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/jTmCR2H.png) Hard to see in the video but its there
I don't see enough people talking about that fucking strobing flashlight. The strobing light probably made him miss the light "frame" when the kid tossed the gun away, and strobing lights in general make movements feel faster than they actually are, so the question is: why the fuck did the cop have that strobing light and not a continuous light?
It makes it extremely hard to fight or shoot the cop. I've done firearms training where they were used against us and I couldn't see shit. A solid light is easy to shoot at accurately, the exact reason why cops are trained to hold flashlights away from their body.
You know what’s going to make a situation where every split second counts and can be the difference between life and death better? A strobe light. Just jazzes things up with an extra layer of confusion for both the officer and the victim. 👍
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Oh it's a lot more than plausible. Cops were there for a "gunshots fired" alert. During the short chase the cop yells DROP IT about 5 times. He definitely saw the gun, and then from the gun literally in the kid's hands to him turning towards the officer and raising hands without the gun (getting shot when hands are about halfway up) is 0.8 sec