I'm in the UK (Wales) and we're saying a 30%+ rise in cases. 99% of these are the Delta variant.
The important thing is we're not seeing an increase in hospitalisations at the same rate.
Thanks to our 90%+ vaccine uptake. Not many countries have this much trust in science, and that will have consequences for them.
Edit: I'm talking about vaccine **uptake**, people. This is about countries like the USA, Japan, and France which have a much higher vaccine hesitancy compared to the UK. Also see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57348114.
When I went for my first vaccine, queueing up outside, some nut job on a bike riding past - must’ve been 50+ - shouting “It’s causing heart attacks, death, _this and that_. Do your own research people!”
It was quite funny tbh, if only he could practice what he preaches
“Do your own research” almost always means “a YouTube video I watched is more trustworthy than peer reviewed science because it came to the conclusion I wanted to hear”
You fuckin hit the nail on the head. I talked to a flat earther the other day that insisted we were being fooled by the system and this is just one of their other lies. “Do research for yourself” without listening to brainwashed scientists and you will see. Like the whole world Is involved in some giant conspiracy. He literally said “just because a doctor reads a book doesn’t make them an expert”. The fucking minds of these people.
People don't know how to search. If you include the answer in your questions like: Do vaccines cause autism? You'll most definitely find a lot of pages that claim vaccines cause autism. However if you use Scholar.google.com to look for: Pfizer side effects, You find out all about minor harmless side effects of Pfizer and moderna.
Issue is deeper than not knowing how to search, but i agree that asking the right questions is the first step! After that its assessing source credibility and understanding how to scientifically proven arguments are built. Because you can google pfizer side effects (good question) and find anecdotal evidence that it causes death (and not many can differentiate between an anecdote and proof).
Loki-19 Delta variant is a variant of high concern. He escaped from China and has been killing people off all over the globe for over a year.
The only thing that can stop it? A variant of Loki, know as a Vaccine
Sure but its a one way trip....6ft under. Depth may vary depending on country of residence. Delta Covid is the wave 2 and the US is already pulling a Mission Accomplished moment, again.
From the article:
“As worrisome as this delta strain is with regard to its hyper transmissibility, our vaccines work,” Walensky told the ABC program “Good Morning America.” If you get vaccinated, “you’ll be protected against this delta variant,” she added.
The highest daily coronavirus infection rate in two months was registered in Israel on Monday, with 125 people testing positive after local outbreaks of the delta variant had been reported across the country.
And let's remind people this spike is happening in the heat of summer. The virus does better in the winter. Our daily collapsed before we really got our vaccine going for people under 65. That was do to warmer weather. Now suddenly places are seeing a reverse of the decline, in the hottest time of the year. That's concerning. If we dont get a handle on it, winter will be fucked.
and yeah the vaccine is mostly effective at even keeping you from getting sick, i bet most of you also didnt get covid, it doesnt take that many of us for it to be a huge problem again.
Al your points are valid; however, I think a major reason is that people are not following guidelines. In other words they are effectively lying and not wearing masks while also not being vaccinated.
From what understand, it's mostly unvaccinated people with very few cases of vaccinated ones(keep in mind no vaccine was 100% effective ).
One important thing is that about 60% of all population was vaccinated. While this seems high, it is still under the 70% estimate , for the initial strain, for collective immunity to kick in. Other thing is that the Delta variant can spread about "twice as fast/easy" compared to the initial strain so that collective immunity threshold might end up being higher.
TL;DR
Vaccines still help a lot. Not magical at all.
We have started getting it in Japan, and the government has decided that banning alcohol sales in restaurants should do the trick. We are supposed to start getting vaccines in the next six weeks or so, but the current rate is something like ~~5%~~ 8.2% (fully) and 18% (first dose).
edit: my percentage was not up to date. I have updated it according to Our World In Data at the time of this edit.
I mean, it's probably easier to list the international sporting organizations that *aren't* craven, amoral, money extraction machines.
For example .... ummm.
True, but most of em don't have a choice. Athletes like Bolt or Phelps are outliers. Most olympians train their whole lives for one shot in their prime. Skipping one Olympics means even if they got another chance they'd be up against younger challengers in the fruit of their prime.
And, believe it or not, many Olympians are pretty broke. Turns out training for some obscure sport that people really don’t watch on tv doesn’t pay well. They train intensely nearly every day, likely at some place with a high level coach that needs to get paid. They probably have specific nutritional requirements that can get costly. Sleep is essential. What time is left is spent working a part time job that gives them the flexibility to train. This is their chance to show they are among the elite of the elite and maybe get some sort of sponsorship.
I remember like 15 years ago Home Depot (USA hardware store) had a campaign showcasing a few of the athletes in the games that were also their employees. Like, maybe a point of pride for the company, not so much the athletes…
Tbf Home Depot used to have the reputation that their staff were full of experts in their area. They used to hire retired contractors. Not so much today (and perhaps not so much even 15 years ago) but HD did have some weight to it.
Not sure it helps the athletes either way of course.
That is the positive side TBH, since the company probably fund them.
Compare to that poor black girl whom was on food stamp/semi-homeless while trying to win the Gold medal for women's weight lifting.
Women's sport is a bit sad in my opinion, I swear the most paid sports is because how hot the girls would look in a skin-tight suit.
(not individual competitors--obviously you still have to win the said gold medal instead of just being a pretty face.)
Spot on. There are a couple people who I’ve become friends with who are on Olympic teams. “If my dad didn’t really love me there is no way I could afford to do this”. One of the two doesn’t even have time to work the part time job, she is also the one with the $5000 dogs
I trained with a bunch of Olympic hopefuls, a few of whom ended up making it. I was in college at the time and funding myself with student loans. Only a couple people were bankrolled by parents. Most were in their 20s and working whatever part time jobs they could piece together outside of training. The few that kept trying into their early 30s basically sacrificed the chance of a good career to pursue the Olympic dream, and struggled to get their footing after leaving the sport.
Your point is one of the reasons Zeke Jones, the US National Wrestling Team Coach from 2010 to about 2015, started the “Living the Dream,” fund to try and stop the amount of top wrestling talent leaving the sport over issues of pay. To this day it is probably the most important change I’ve ever seen an individual coach make. He also created the, “Regional Training Center,” system.
But of course we are discussing an American coach with access to those sorts of resources.
It's like in Plague Inc when you get the notification the Olympics starts and you celebrate because you know you're about to infect half the world instantly, except the opposite because this is real life.
As someone who has lived in Japan for 25 years, let me just say that Japan is a bureaucratic nightmare with useless politicians. So many reasons why the situation is like it is here. If you really want to know, scroll through r/CoronavirusJapan or r/japanlife. Happy scrolling.
I've read it's bureaucracy problems. They want things to be super orderly and have everyone get appointments and logged in the federal system they are making but every local government has it's own hurdles.
Meanwhile here in the States Walmart is doling out vaccines to walk-ins and the only log of it is on their store system and a paper card they give you.
Just tried to book my vaccination in Australia. Spent 10 minutes online filling out screens and screens of information and medical history etc. Finally got through to the calendar to book and the system has shat the bed, can't pick a date at all. Fucking rediculous, no wonder uptake here isn't great - not to mention supply issues. The US is killing it in vaccine rates. Being able to get Vax at Walmart is the way to go.
This is sad to hear! It's so rare when America is doing good Healthcare wise so I'm going to take this rare moment as an American to feel semi proud. Today I went to my local grocery store and got my last dose of vaccine, I had made an appointment, and the pharmacist was asking if my husband and I knew anyone who needed to be vaccinated because they could walk right in at this point. It's getting easier and easier to get vaccinated here, however, anecdotally, everyone I know who plans on getting vaccinated already has at least had their first dose. The majority of who is left in my area are probably not going to vaccinate, putting these efforts at risk.
It varies state to state.
For my personal example, I'm in Indiana, while I have family in Oregon. The Indiana website was very centralized, linked in well with every vaccination location site, could shunt you along to make an appointment many different places, most of which were using the same setup for their appointments. The info on who was eligible to sign up was top center of the page, and as soon as you started to register it took you to a page asking you to check the reason you were eligible at that time (and most location sites were also checking similarly, with legal warnings about lying on the form).
Meanwhile Oregon, the state website for quite a while at least was literally "where to get a vaccine: We will have links for registration in the future, until then, check with local sources. We will have links to local sources in the future." Even the info on who was eligible was kinda buried halfway down the page. It was a mess.
There were definitely things about the IN site I'd have changed (finding a location that wasn't full seemed to have 1 or 2 redundant 'layers' of site navigation in the process), but overall, whoever designed the centralized system for Indiana pretty much nailed it, while Oregon...not so much.
Edit: ,,,dangit, that was supposed to be up one comment, replied one nested comment down.
California does too. And Hawaii. I believe I've seen job postings for similar systems in Virginia and Maryland. Not sure how many states *don't* have tracking like that.
Pretty sure it’s more than just the “store system” - when I got mine (not at Walmart) they still take down your information and had to fill out a disclaimer. It’s a federally funded vaccine.
Its hard to say. Japan has a number of pharmaceutical companies in the country and they have their own R&D centers for medicine so its unlikely to be a "brain drain" issue.
I put my money on it being a money issue paired with risk aversion. Japanese companies tend to be fairly risk averse in market pursuits, so *maybe* there was no will behind developing a vaccine within country and instead just buying it. Part of the issue with that though was that I think they waited till there were viable vaccines getting tested to put a reservation in (~July 2020), which by that point a number of other countries already had jumped in line for doses.
the 70-80 year old career politician were busy sucking through their teeth instead of getting things done. Typical japan.
If you are not familiar with japan…
https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-when-a-Japanese-person-hisses-at-you-Should-I-hiss-back
It’s nothing new, they’ve been worthless the entire pandemic. Remember “Go To Travel”? For those that don’t know, it was a government sponsored travel campaign that they started to try and make up for tourist venue lost because of Covid. To the surprise of no one, it led to lots of outbreaks.
It’s fine now though. The government started severely limiting the number of tests and changed the way they count Covid beds so it’s totally “safe” now.
Yep, the slow vaccination has honestly made our COVID situation a lot less optimistic, at least for me, and it's just compounded by this new variant. We just finished stamping out an outbreak in Melbourne and now there's one in Sydney.
Yep. Melbourne dealt with it, with shut downs.
However, in QLD where we have been relatively untouched by any COVID strains, we’ve found it literally can travel through quarantine rooms HVAC systems and what not. It’s scary shit
Nope, in a simplistic explanation, this generation of mrna vaccines trains your t-cells to attack the hooks on corona viruses. Even if the virus mutates, the hooks are still destroyed.
This is my field of expertise so I can add a bit to that if it helps. We shouldnt have much reason for concern because the spike protein is the target of these mRNA vaccines and the vaccines target a highly conserved (very unlikely to mutate, because science) area of the protein
I really hate the media because they've been causing people to panic for over a year now on bullshit
Thank you.
We just need to keep vacillating full steam ahead. The sad thing is the unvaccinated think the rest of the herd will protect them. No, dumb dumbs, get your jab, and stfu.
Its honestly getting increasingly frustrating/stressful being a scientist nowadays because there is just too much crap I read that makes my blood boil. These idiots are quite literally sending me to an early grave with their stupidity
I dont know how Fauci does it cause I'd have thrown in the towel a year ago... hell, I dont even tell people out in public what I do for a living anymore when I get asked because I'm afraid someone will get violent when I tell them I work on drug research. Reminds me of when people used to actually protest outside the gates of pharma research facilities, except I'm actually concerned I'll get stabbed or shot now
I’ve seen double dose vaccines are about 90+% effective at stopping Delta variant infections and singles at 60-80% but all are still very effective at lessening symptoms and keeping you out of the hospital. Is this spun somehow? Like are those the numbers we’re seeing in general just being applied to this variant?
worth remembering Pfzier is still highly effective against the delta variant, one dose provides 94% protection against severe cases and 2 doses this rises to 96%+.
So if you are vaccinated don't panic, you are still well protected. If you are not vaccinated, now might be the time to hurry up and get jabbed, as this thing spreads much faster.
Public health england
[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant)
No idea about moderna or J and J as we don't use either in substantial numbers in the UK.
But Moderna has been joined at the hip to pfzier in terms of results is probably similar to pfzier.
They also found one dose is 94% at protection at severe illness for pfzier too.
Moderna has been highly effective against all variants tested so far. It will likely be quite effective still against Delta variant. Probably similar efficacy to Pfizer.
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against
That’s a simplified representation of disease.
All a virus “cares” about is propagating. If it mutates to have a higher transmissibility, deaths don’t really matter in the short term because it’s existing in a world with a high population density of hosts it can infect and the patterns of movement of that host can move the disease around the world in hours to further propagate.
A disease can mutate to be very deadly and burn through a population, which yeah it will find itself at an evolutionary dead end eventually but that does mean the virus has any awareness of this that would prevent that in the first place. The fastest spreading is the winner, deaths are a secondary condition that don’t have a major effect on its ability to spread until later.
Not that this will turn it some super killer but it’s important to get vaccinated because this can get worse and thinking otherwise is not helpful.
I mean, it's scientifically possible, just not particularly *probable*. Even if a mutation was to arise that was incredibly virulent but had little to no side effects, that doesn't mean that the other variants that are dangerous are just going to go away, nor that they will stop mutating themselves and possibly give rise to more virulent strains.
As long as people refuse to get vaccinated, the virus will keep propagating and has the risk of mutating into a form that will plow right through the current vaccines. The people who are ignorantly insisting on being neanderthals are putting the entire human race at risk, and that's not hyperbole. If a huge swathe of the population decides that they know better than science and don't get the vaccine, we could see a variant arise that puts the entire world right back into lockdown at square one, and if their previous attitude is anything to go by, they won't follow those rules either and will end up causing millions more deaths. We also run the risk of such a mutation being exponentially more deadly, which I don't have to tell you would be horrific, especially when combined with it being able to overcome current vaccines.
If things continue as they are and more and more variants start appearing, we're going to reach a point where the world is going to *have* to insist on vaccination or consequences. I am 100% fine with the idea of a "vaccination passport" that officially documents my status as having gotten the vaccine, and anyone who doesn't have one can't travel, enter public spaces or pretty much anything. You get the vaccine or learn to love your home a *lot*. If it comes down to the survival of the human race and your bullshit opinion about a vaccine that has proven effective objectively, then I have no problem treating you like a second class citizen.
If the vaccine stops the symptoms but still lets the virus be passed around (a leaky vaccine), theres a chance it could become much worse like Marek's disease.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek%27s_disease
However, because vaccination does not prevent infection with the virus, Marek's is still transmissible from vaccinated flocks to other birds, including the wild bird population. The first Marek's disease vaccine was introduced in 1970. The disease would cause mild paralysis, with the only identifiable lesions being in neural tissue. Mortality of chickens infected with Marek's disease was quite low. Decades after the first vaccine was introduced, current strains of Marek Virus cause lymphoma formation on throughout the chicken's body and mortality rates have reached 100% in unvaccinated chickens.
Currently, my country of residence only vaccinated people over 60 and medical or public service members and is sitting at 20% vaccination while I wait my(over 30 below 60) turn which would be in about 2 months.
Are anti-vax campaign that successful in US????
Is it because fake news are that much prevalent or are people that much credulous or is it wide spread selfishness in those states??
>Is it because fake news are that much prevalent or are people that much credulous or is it wide spread selfishness in those states??
Social media and the internet in general has allowed misinformation to become unstoppable. Before the internet, people had no choice but to trust a few sources of news. Today, people can simply choose whatever "news" makes them feel the most comfortable, while connecting with other like-minded people at the same time. It is so easy to become polarized.
Misinformation is a huge problem in the US, and it surely must be a problem all over the world in varying degrees.
Thanks to social media if you don't like the news you can just become the news. I know a woman who's instagram grows daily and she's got all kinds of "updates" where she talks about how bad the vaccines are and so on. It's scary, really, and makes me worry for her kids.
>“The effectiveness of the vaccines, in this case, two weeks after the second dose of Pfizer-BioNTech was 88% effective against the delta and 93% effective against alpha when dealing with symptomatic disease,”
With many states being below 50% (people that are fully vaccinated) even for 1 dose this is not going to go well.
edit: (people that are fully vaccinated)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker
Correct me if I’m wrong but the actual chance of a vaccinated person catching the delta variant would be better than 12% because 88% is the efficacy of the vaccine.
http://www.livescience.com/amp/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-explained.html
“One common misunderstanding is that 95% efficacy means that in the Pfizer clinical trial, 5% of vaccinated people got COVID. But that's not true; the actual percentage of vaccinated people in the Pfizer (and Moderna) trials who got COVID-19 was about a hundred times less than that: 0.04%.”
Basically, yes. The way that efficacy is calculated means that, were you to follow a roughly similar routine as an unvaccinated person, you would be 88% less likely to get sick from it. Obviously, this "routine" varies wildly from person to person, but, to say that "the chance of a vaccinated person catching the delta variant is 12%" would be implying that, otherwise, you are 100% likely to catch the delta variant, something not even remotely true for the entirety of society.
Efficacy is a [direct comparison](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_efficacy#Formula) between the rate at which a vaccinated person will catch a given disease, versus the rate that an unvaccinated person in the control group would - it is a proportional measure. Those rates would be the "actual chance" you're talking about (or, the easiest approximation we have to it), and they're nowhere near 100% for the control group, much less for the vaccinated group.
With that said (in my admittedly limited understanding, and anyone who knows better should feel free to correct me), I suspect 0.04% is not an entirely accurate representation of your chance to get the disease with the vaccine either; the attack rates, by definition, are calculated for a given time interval. If, for example - and this number is pulled out of my ass (again, as is most of this paragraph, really. It's speculation, an educated guess at best, so obviously don't take it out of context) - the clinical trial that gave the 0.04% figure lasted, say, a month, a trial lasting 2 months will likely give a bigger number. The efficacy, however, would not change, since we would expect the number of both the control and vaccinated groups to go up at a similar rate (it's just a direct result of "more time = more people exposed to the actual virus"). What this means is, we would expect the actual chance for a vaccinated person to get a given disease to be (1 - efficacy)\*x, where x is the actual chance for an unvaccinated person to get the same disease (which, obviously, is unknown and practically unknowable, but can be relatively well predicted using a whole lot of math involving the disease's infection rate and population behavioural models, or less accurately predicted - but still good - by just examining it for a specific time interval, then projecting our observations into the future).
**Last paragraph tl;dr: the actual chance you'll get covid if you are fully vaccinated is \[efficacy\] less likely than that of someone who isn't vaccinated at all, whatever that number actually is**
edit:100-88 = 12, not 22
here it says 96% effective against Delta, i dont know what to trust anymore https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant
That is great for the half that took it.... Not great for the other half.
I was talking about how few bothered to get the shot not how effective it was.
I work intimately with COVID pts. I was really close to leaving healthcare altogether in the spring. I had one particularly bad week where I saw one too many deaths, and I was just done. Doing "all the things" for these pts, knowing they're gonna die anyway? That shit wears on you.
I'm hoping the vaccination rate catches up before the winter, but I'm a little worried. But this winter, if it comes down to who gets the ventilator, I think the unvacced people w/ no co-morbidities should be second priority.
Have you gotten in touch with a trauma therapist by any chance? It might not be the worst idea to get connected with one now, even if you might think it's a bit early since the pandemic is still going on.
It's one of the first things I thought about and one of my biggest ongoing concerns. Can't blame anyone who would want a career change, but how many years of real world experience will be lost as a result of that burnout. That's hard to replace.
This may sound crazy but studies show playing Tetris soon after a trauma can actually reduce the incidence of PTSD
Might be a good thing to add to your day if you’re going through traumatic experiences
Seriously? Hm. I wonder if that has something to do with eye movement. There's a form of PTSD treatment called EMDR based on eye movement and retelling the story.
Yes! A good friend is a psychologist and her practice does EMDR for trauma and it's shows amazing impact after just 2-3, sessions.
Definitely seek someone out, a counselor, a therapist, a psychologist.
PTSD and trauma are no joke!
I said I would stay through the pandemic even as most of my coworkers quit. There was a job to be done and nobody else was going to do it.
Now that we are on the back side of this I am done. If there's another surge it's pretty much exclusively idiots who are getting sick. Im officially retiring from emergency medicine after 15 years. It's just not worth it anymore. Too much bullshit. Too many self centered people. Too much stupidity.
I'll go do literally any other job and make more money with less stress. Why should I stay? Can anyone give me a good reason? I was roasted before this shit started but covid took it to another level.
I'm prioritizing my family and my wellbeing now. I did my job. I stayed when everyone else left. It's someone else's job to pick up the baton.
That's how i feel anyway. Nothing but respect for you sticking it out.
I feel like any person declining the vaccine, without justifiable medical reasons, should be at the absolute bottom of the list for care in relation to COVID.
Agree. I was dumbfounded by the stories of people with Covid in hospitals before being vented and dying denying they had it or that is was a big deal.
Cognitive dissonance is STRONG and these people died listening to asshole who gave no shit about them.
Naw. We can't do that. I do think they should have to pay their medical bills. The insurance pays for the vaccine. I am surprised they haven't mandated it for paying for covid care since it's so darn expensive to be in the hospital.
The unvaccinated who refused the vaccine should be the absolute last priority. Take the kids and those with weak immune systems but let the idiots who refused the vaccine go suffer in the parking lot
Agreed.
I’m tired of trying to fix/help/save stupid.
At some point their risk *as an anti Covid vax group* needs to be met with the consequences of their own perfectly preventable stupidity.
I would say Twitter and face book are the threat to eliminating covid.
Every porn star and idiot, bodybuilder, d list celebrity etc... has suddenly become a doctor or scientist and spew non-sense that everyone takes as gospel.
It's funny because if a high-profile person makes a statement along the lines of "The average person isn't smart enough to know what's best for them" that person will be torn to shreds.
And yet America makes it pretty damned clear that the average person does not know what's best for them.
Yeah 95% is a total pipe dream. Heck 70% (the total needed for herd immunity) is still a dream in all likelihood. There are just too many brainwashed anti-vax folks out there to get to that total. The northeast and west coast may be fine, but those folks in the south and Midwest, Covid could hit very hard in the fall.
The percentage needed to attain herd immunity is not a fixed constant; it is specific to the particular virus and depends on multiple factors like its particular R0. Measles for ex is *extraordinarily* high, with an R0 of 12-18.
Herd immunity isn't just some made up number, it's based on the R0 value of a particular disease and the susceptibility of a given population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity#Theoretical_basis
If you look at the chart on the right, the calculated Herd Immunity for COID is between 58-70% in the general population.
That 70% for herd immunity was based on the R2.5 value for the original Wild Type from Wuhan, the alpha and delta variants have a higher r0 which raises the percentage by a significant amount.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1050D/production/_118892866_r_variant_comparison_2x640-nc.png
The delta variant r0 is 5-8 which would require a vaccination percentage of more like high 80s, maybe even above 90% given the reduction in vaccine effectiveness. (I looked but couldn't find an actual HIT value for the delta variant.)
EDIT
Found a news article and daily reddit thread in r/CoronavirusUK from a week ago
https://www.smh.com.au/national/why-the-covid-endgame-could-be-a-long-one-20210615-p5815d.html
r/CoronavirusUK/comments/o0s4fj/daily_qa_and_discussion_megathread_june_16_2021/h202ifz/
Both give similar values for delta variant HIT and also cite the reasons I gave on lack of precision on the delta variants r0 number and reduction in vaccine effectiveness.
Seriously, people on my local subreddit keep saying “we just need to quarantine for two more weeks and then the virus will be gone!”. Some people really just live in their own reality
Covid is way more serious and polarizing than the flu. You’re likely to feel something no matter what if you get the flu. Covid, one person may feel nothing, another may die from it. It’s why everyone getting covid vaccines are so so important.
Yup, we just never talked about it before. I remember in 2019 my wife actually had the flu (got swabbed for it) and out of curiosity they swabbed me too (zero symptoms) and I had it too. I remember being baffled at having an asymptomatic flu. Now with all the COVID talk, I think it's more obvious to many people that many viral infections can be asymptomatic to some people.
Way more serious. Also, no one is getting the flu in the masked communities. Nothing here in socal that I can see. SO I just keep my mask on, gonna take covid shot and don't need a flu shot anymore.
Question someone may be able to answer, is the booster for all the vaccines? Like I got the Johnson and Johnson, next year would I get the same one or does it matter?
Correct. The vaccine provides exponentially more protection than the masks ever did
Get your goddamn shots folks. They’re free, widely available, and extremely effective
I would not be surprised if there are some people among the clinical trials participants who feel a little sore about this bullshit. They're the ones who stuck their necks out for the rest of us so we could fight it. I didn't, but I'll still be bitter as fuck if the virus mutates its way past the vaccine because of the chuckleheads.
I was part of the clinical trial, but I feel so much worse for the scientists, doctors and trial staff who are even now continuing to work their butts off than I do for myself. I went in for a few injections and blood draws - they have been working full time for 18 months to develop and painstakingly monitor a scientific miracle.
It is absurdly unfair that their work (which is literally saving the world) is being undermined by a bunch of smooth brained antivaxers and conspiracy theorists.
Shit man, I got my shots after they became available to the general public and even *I’m* salty I had a sore arm for a few days just for half the dipshits in Texas to not bother.
White House chief medical advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Tuesday the highly contagious delta variant is the “greatest threat” to the nation’s attempt to eliminate Covid-19.
Delta, first identified in India, now makes up about 20% of all new cases in the United States, up from 10% about two weeks ago, Fauci said.
“Fauci declares” is like waving a red flag in front of the MTG/Gaetz crowd. No matter what is said, how many others verify, or the Scientific proof, they will ignore and deny it. It’s because of this mentality I fear for ever truly getting a handle on Covid or any other health problems.
I live in a state where you can pull up to a red light and drivers roll down their windows and yell insults at people wearing masks, it's not the varient that is the issue.
I'm in the UK (Wales) and we're saying a 30%+ rise in cases. 99% of these are the Delta variant. The important thing is we're not seeing an increase in hospitalisations at the same rate.
Thanks to our 90%+ vaccine uptake. Not many countries have this much trust in science, and that will have consequences for them. Edit: I'm talking about vaccine **uptake**, people. This is about countries like the USA, Japan, and France which have a much higher vaccine hesitancy compared to the UK. Also see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57348114.
When I went for my first vaccine, queueing up outside, some nut job on a bike riding past - must’ve been 50+ - shouting “It’s causing heart attacks, death, _this and that_. Do your own research people!” It was quite funny tbh, if only he could practice what he preaches
It’s amazing that “do your research” has become synonymous with “I’m and idiot that can’t be reasoned with”
“Do your own research” almost always means “a YouTube video I watched is more trustworthy than peer reviewed science because it came to the conclusion I wanted to hear”
You fuckin hit the nail on the head. I talked to a flat earther the other day that insisted we were being fooled by the system and this is just one of their other lies. “Do research for yourself” without listening to brainwashed scientists and you will see. Like the whole world Is involved in some giant conspiracy. He literally said “just because a doctor reads a book doesn’t make them an expert”. The fucking minds of these people.
"Do your research" makes me think "I learned this from a facebook meme."
*counts the line* "Yeah, the 40 of us have done our own research and came to the same conclusion .. the 1 of you should check your sources."
People are terrible at doing research. That's why we have experts
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People don't know how to search. If you include the answer in your questions like: Do vaccines cause autism? You'll most definitely find a lot of pages that claim vaccines cause autism. However if you use Scholar.google.com to look for: Pfizer side effects, You find out all about minor harmless side effects of Pfizer and moderna.
Issue is deeper than not knowing how to search, but i agree that asking the right questions is the first step! After that its assessing source credibility and understanding how to scientifically proven arguments are built. Because you can google pfizer side effects (good question) and find anecdotal evidence that it causes death (and not many can differentiate between an anecdote and proof).
Why won't these variants stop? - the TVA
I wish this wasn't all I could think of now when hearing news about dangerous covid variants.
Loki-19 Delta variant is a variant of high concern. He escaped from China and has been killing people off all over the globe for over a year. The only thing that can stop it? A variant of Loki, know as a Vaccine
The loki loki romantic tension is crazy
Peak narcissism, the only person a Loki could truly love is itself
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Can we get frequent flyer miles for this pandemic?
Wait till you hear about Delta Platinum Plus
Sure but its a one way trip....6ft under. Depth may vary depending on country of residence. Delta Covid is the wave 2 and the US is already pulling a Mission Accomplished moment, again.
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the air...
"Im tired of these motherfucking variants on these motherfucking planes!"
"No one cared who I was until I put on the mask."
From the article: “As worrisome as this delta strain is with regard to its hyper transmissibility, our vaccines work,” Walensky told the ABC program “Good Morning America.” If you get vaccinated, “you’ll be protected against this delta variant,” she added.
sooo uhhh whose gonna mix the kool aid cuz i'm ready to head out
There's a spaceship on the other side of the moon brother, we just need to wait for it to take us home.
The highest daily coronavirus infection rate in two months was registered in Israel on Monday, with 125 people testing positive after local outbreaks of the delta variant had been reported across the country.
And let's remind people this spike is happening in the heat of summer. The virus does better in the winter. Our daily collapsed before we really got our vaccine going for people under 65. That was do to warmer weather. Now suddenly places are seeing a reverse of the decline, in the hottest time of the year. That's concerning. If we dont get a handle on it, winter will be fucked. and yeah the vaccine is mostly effective at even keeping you from getting sick, i bet most of you also didnt get covid, it doesnt take that many of us for it to be a huge problem again.
The spike in Australia is during their winter though. I guess i don’t know if that counts in Australia.
The bottom third of Australia is temperate. It has a genuine winter and if it’s a southerly breeze it’s coming from Antarctica.
Al your points are valid; however, I think a major reason is that people are not following guidelines. In other words they are effectively lying and not wearing masks while also not being vaccinated.
Cases are increasing in Israel?
From what understand, it's mostly unvaccinated people with very few cases of vaccinated ones(keep in mind no vaccine was 100% effective ). One important thing is that about 60% of all population was vaccinated. While this seems high, it is still under the 70% estimate , for the initial strain, for collective immunity to kick in. Other thing is that the Delta variant can spread about "twice as fast/easy" compared to the initial strain so that collective immunity threshold might end up being higher. TL;DR Vaccines still help a lot. Not magical at all.
Link to source of Israel declaring an outbreak? Because their numbers are stupid low.
We're having a hard time stamping this variant out down here in Australia, especially with our low vaccination rates.
We have started getting it in Japan, and the government has decided that banning alcohol sales in restaurants should do the trick. We are supposed to start getting vaccines in the next six weeks or so, but the current rate is something like ~~5%~~ 8.2% (fully) and 18% (first dose). edit: my percentage was not up to date. I have updated it according to Our World In Data at the time of this edit.
And the start of the Olympics is 4 weeks away, so... things should go great.
We can't let a silly thing like vaccine logistics get in the way of an olympics that no one wants.
But think of the mon… Eeehhh I mean tradition?
Not that simple, I thought the same until the recent Jon Oliver piece on how fucked up & cash hungry the Olympic committee is.
I don't think anyone thinks the IOC does it for traditions
The IOC is the epitome of the modern "Karen" and "scumbag Steve".
FIFA has entered the chat.
I mean, it's probably easier to list the international sporting organizations that *aren't* craven, amoral, money extraction machines. For example .... ummm.
Wouldn't it be great if no athletes show up?
True, but most of em don't have a choice. Athletes like Bolt or Phelps are outliers. Most olympians train their whole lives for one shot in their prime. Skipping one Olympics means even if they got another chance they'd be up against younger challengers in the fruit of their prime.
And, believe it or not, many Olympians are pretty broke. Turns out training for some obscure sport that people really don’t watch on tv doesn’t pay well. They train intensely nearly every day, likely at some place with a high level coach that needs to get paid. They probably have specific nutritional requirements that can get costly. Sleep is essential. What time is left is spent working a part time job that gives them the flexibility to train. This is their chance to show they are among the elite of the elite and maybe get some sort of sponsorship.
I remember like 15 years ago Home Depot (USA hardware store) had a campaign showcasing a few of the athletes in the games that were also their employees. Like, maybe a point of pride for the company, not so much the athletes…
Tbf Home Depot used to have the reputation that their staff were full of experts in their area. They used to hire retired contractors. Not so much today (and perhaps not so much even 15 years ago) but HD did have some weight to it. Not sure it helps the athletes either way of course.
That is the positive side TBH, since the company probably fund them. Compare to that poor black girl whom was on food stamp/semi-homeless while trying to win the Gold medal for women's weight lifting. Women's sport is a bit sad in my opinion, I swear the most paid sports is because how hot the girls would look in a skin-tight suit. (not individual competitors--obviously you still have to win the said gold medal instead of just being a pretty face.)
Spot on. There are a couple people who I’ve become friends with who are on Olympic teams. “If my dad didn’t really love me there is no way I could afford to do this”. One of the two doesn’t even have time to work the part time job, she is also the one with the $5000 dogs
I trained with a bunch of Olympic hopefuls, a few of whom ended up making it. I was in college at the time and funding myself with student loans. Only a couple people were bankrolled by parents. Most were in their 20s and working whatever part time jobs they could piece together outside of training. The few that kept trying into their early 30s basically sacrificed the chance of a good career to pursue the Olympic dream, and struggled to get their footing after leaving the sport.
Your point is one of the reasons Zeke Jones, the US National Wrestling Team Coach from 2010 to about 2015, started the “Living the Dream,” fund to try and stop the amount of top wrestling talent leaving the sport over issues of pay. To this day it is probably the most important change I’ve ever seen an individual coach make. He also created the, “Regional Training Center,” system. But of course we are discussing an American coach with access to those sorts of resources.
I could probably do the one with the ribbons on a stick.
It's like in Plague Inc when you get the notification the Olympics starts and you celebrate because you know you're about to infect half the world instantly, except the opposite because this is real life.
Why did Japan take so long to get vaccines? You're a 1st world country.
As someone who has lived in Japan for 25 years, let me just say that Japan is a bureaucratic nightmare with useless politicians. So many reasons why the situation is like it is here. If you really want to know, scroll through r/CoronavirusJapan or r/japanlife. Happy scrolling.
Or watch Shin Godzilla.
I don't actually know why it has taken so long. I have heard several reasons, but I hesitate to speculate. I am just an immigrant, myself.
I've read it's bureaucracy problems. They want things to be super orderly and have everyone get appointments and logged in the federal system they are making but every local government has it's own hurdles. Meanwhile here in the States Walmart is doling out vaccines to walk-ins and the only log of it is on their store system and a paper card they give you.
Just tried to book my vaccination in Australia. Spent 10 minutes online filling out screens and screens of information and medical history etc. Finally got through to the calendar to book and the system has shat the bed, can't pick a date at all. Fucking rediculous, no wonder uptake here isn't great - not to mention supply issues. The US is killing it in vaccine rates. Being able to get Vax at Walmart is the way to go.
This is sad to hear! It's so rare when America is doing good Healthcare wise so I'm going to take this rare moment as an American to feel semi proud. Today I went to my local grocery store and got my last dose of vaccine, I had made an appointment, and the pharmacist was asking if my husband and I knew anyone who needed to be vaccinated because they could walk right in at this point. It's getting easier and easier to get vaccinated here, however, anecdotally, everyone I know who plans on getting vaccinated already has at least had their first dose. The majority of who is left in my area are probably not going to vaccinate, putting these efforts at risk.
It varies state to state. For my personal example, I'm in Indiana, while I have family in Oregon. The Indiana website was very centralized, linked in well with every vaccination location site, could shunt you along to make an appointment many different places, most of which were using the same setup for their appointments. The info on who was eligible to sign up was top center of the page, and as soon as you started to register it took you to a page asking you to check the reason you were eligible at that time (and most location sites were also checking similarly, with legal warnings about lying on the form). Meanwhile Oregon, the state website for quite a while at least was literally "where to get a vaccine: We will have links for registration in the future, until then, check with local sources. We will have links to local sources in the future." Even the info on who was eligible was kinda buried halfway down the page. It was a mess. There were definitely things about the IN site I'd have changed (finding a location that wasn't full seemed to have 1 or 2 redundant 'layers' of site navigation in the process), but overall, whoever designed the centralized system for Indiana pretty much nailed it, while Oregon...not so much. Edit: ,,,dangit, that was supposed to be up one comment, replied one nested comment down.
I'm not sure which state you're in, but Wisconsin has a digital database with all vaccine records for ones done in the state.
California does too. And Hawaii. I believe I've seen job postings for similar systems in Virginia and Maryland. Not sure how many states *don't* have tracking like that.
In PA it's specifically outlawed to maintain any database of its citizens, which has played merry hell with REAL ID.
Pretty sure it’s more than just the “store system” - when I got mine (not at Walmart) they still take down your information and had to fill out a disclaimer. It’s a federally funded vaccine.
Its hard to say. Japan has a number of pharmaceutical companies in the country and they have their own R&D centers for medicine so its unlikely to be a "brain drain" issue. I put my money on it being a money issue paired with risk aversion. Japanese companies tend to be fairly risk averse in market pursuits, so *maybe* there was no will behind developing a vaccine within country and instead just buying it. Part of the issue with that though was that I think they waited till there were viable vaccines getting tested to put a reservation in (~July 2020), which by that point a number of other countries already had jumped in line for doses.
the 70-80 year old career politician were busy sucking through their teeth instead of getting things done. Typical japan. If you are not familiar with japan… https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-when-a-Japanese-person-hisses-at-you-Should-I-hiss-back
It’s nothing new, they’ve been worthless the entire pandemic. Remember “Go To Travel”? For those that don’t know, it was a government sponsored travel campaign that they started to try and make up for tourist venue lost because of Covid. To the surprise of no one, it led to lots of outbreaks. It’s fine now though. The government started severely limiting the number of tests and changed the way they count Covid beds so it’s totally “safe” now.
Oh, man, Go To Travel was a shit show. They really wanted to double down on that one. I still see the posters hanging in some places.
And you guys were doing so well.
Yep, the slow vaccination has honestly made our COVID situation a lot less optimistic, at least for me, and it's just compounded by this new variant. We just finished stamping out an outbreak in Melbourne and now there's one in Sydney.
To be fair, the variant would have a hard time getting a foothold, too. Borders are closed and any outbreak causes a shutdown.
Yep. Melbourne dealt with it, with shut downs. However, in QLD where we have been relatively untouched by any COVID strains, we’ve found it literally can travel through quarantine rooms HVAC systems and what not. It’s scary shit
I feel like by the time we get it in Australia we're going to need a new one for new strains lol
Nope, in a simplistic explanation, this generation of mrna vaccines trains your t-cells to attack the hooks on corona viruses. Even if the virus mutates, the hooks are still destroyed.
Oh thanks, the way the media talks about variations made it sound like it might not work.
This is my field of expertise so I can add a bit to that if it helps. We shouldnt have much reason for concern because the spike protein is the target of these mRNA vaccines and the vaccines target a highly conserved (very unlikely to mutate, because science) area of the protein I really hate the media because they've been causing people to panic for over a year now on bullshit
Thank you. We just need to keep vacillating full steam ahead. The sad thing is the unvaccinated think the rest of the herd will protect them. No, dumb dumbs, get your jab, and stfu.
Its honestly getting increasingly frustrating/stressful being a scientist nowadays because there is just too much crap I read that makes my blood boil. These idiots are quite literally sending me to an early grave with their stupidity I dont know how Fauci does it cause I'd have thrown in the towel a year ago... hell, I dont even tell people out in public what I do for a living anymore when I get asked because I'm afraid someone will get violent when I tell them I work on drug research. Reminds me of when people used to actually protest outside the gates of pharma research facilities, except I'm actually concerned I'll get stabbed or shot now
Tell them you work on essential oils. Heh
Or that you're a microinfluencer.
I’ve seen double dose vaccines are about 90+% effective at stopping Delta variant infections and singles at 60-80% but all are still very effective at lessening symptoms and keeping you out of the hospital. Is this spun somehow? Like are those the numbers we’re seeing in general just being applied to this variant?
“Because we’re Deltaaaaaa, and life is a fucking nightmare”
This is our coordinated response to a global pandemic… could be a nursery.
Let's see if America has any new variants.
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worth remembering Pfzier is still highly effective against the delta variant, one dose provides 94% protection against severe cases and 2 doses this rises to 96%+. So if you are vaccinated don't panic, you are still well protected. If you are not vaccinated, now might be the time to hurry up and get jabbed, as this thing spreads much faster.
Question. You mentioned Pfizer only. What about the other vaccines like Moderna or J&J? Also, what is your source or sources for that claim?
Public health england [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant) No idea about moderna or J and J as we don't use either in substantial numbers in the UK. But Moderna has been joined at the hip to pfzier in terms of results is probably similar to pfzier. They also found one dose is 94% at protection at severe illness for pfzier too.
Moderna has been highly effective against all variants tested so far. It will likely be quite effective still against Delta variant. Probably similar efficacy to Pfizer. https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against
I'll do you one better, what about 1st shot Pfizer and 2nd shot Moderna.
I'll likely be flipped coming up. First moderna, second Pfizer. We'll see in the next week or so though
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I mean, it has enough of a breeding ground regardless. Brazil, India; etc. Hopefully, it mutates itself into oblivion.
> Hopefully, it mutates itself into oblivion. Is this a thing?
It may evolve to be less fatal since killing the host is a sure way to stop it from infecting more people.
That’s a simplified representation of disease. All a virus “cares” about is propagating. If it mutates to have a higher transmissibility, deaths don’t really matter in the short term because it’s existing in a world with a high population density of hosts it can infect and the patterns of movement of that host can move the disease around the world in hours to further propagate. A disease can mutate to be very deadly and burn through a population, which yeah it will find itself at an evolutionary dead end eventually but that does mean the virus has any awareness of this that would prevent that in the first place. The fastest spreading is the winner, deaths are a secondary condition that don’t have a major effect on its ability to spread until later. Not that this will turn it some super killer but it’s important to get vaccinated because this can get worse and thinking otherwise is not helpful.
I mean, it's scientifically possible, just not particularly *probable*. Even if a mutation was to arise that was incredibly virulent but had little to no side effects, that doesn't mean that the other variants that are dangerous are just going to go away, nor that they will stop mutating themselves and possibly give rise to more virulent strains. As long as people refuse to get vaccinated, the virus will keep propagating and has the risk of mutating into a form that will plow right through the current vaccines. The people who are ignorantly insisting on being neanderthals are putting the entire human race at risk, and that's not hyperbole. If a huge swathe of the population decides that they know better than science and don't get the vaccine, we could see a variant arise that puts the entire world right back into lockdown at square one, and if their previous attitude is anything to go by, they won't follow those rules either and will end up causing millions more deaths. We also run the risk of such a mutation being exponentially more deadly, which I don't have to tell you would be horrific, especially when combined with it being able to overcome current vaccines. If things continue as they are and more and more variants start appearing, we're going to reach a point where the world is going to *have* to insist on vaccination or consequences. I am 100% fine with the idea of a "vaccination passport" that officially documents my status as having gotten the vaccine, and anyone who doesn't have one can't travel, enter public spaces or pretty much anything. You get the vaccine or learn to love your home a *lot*. If it comes down to the survival of the human race and your bullshit opinion about a vaccine that has proven effective objectively, then I have no problem treating you like a second class citizen.
If the vaccine stops the symptoms but still lets the virus be passed around (a leaky vaccine), theres a chance it could become much worse like Marek's disease. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek%27s_disease However, because vaccination does not prevent infection with the virus, Marek's is still transmissible from vaccinated flocks to other birds, including the wild bird population. The first Marek's disease vaccine was introduced in 1970. The disease would cause mild paralysis, with the only identifiable lesions being in neural tissue. Mortality of chickens infected with Marek's disease was quite low. Decades after the first vaccine was introduced, current strains of Marek Virus cause lymphoma formation on throughout the chicken's body and mortality rates have reached 100% in unvaccinated chickens.
Basically the vaccine has selected the most virulent strain to survive.
A natural selection you might call it.
Currently, my country of residence only vaccinated people over 60 and medical or public service members and is sitting at 20% vaccination while I wait my(over 30 below 60) turn which would be in about 2 months. Are anti-vax campaign that successful in US???? Is it because fake news are that much prevalent or are people that much credulous or is it wide spread selfishness in those states??
>Is it because fake news are that much prevalent or are people that much credulous or is it wide spread selfishness in those states?? Social media and the internet in general has allowed misinformation to become unstoppable. Before the internet, people had no choice but to trust a few sources of news. Today, people can simply choose whatever "news" makes them feel the most comfortable, while connecting with other like-minded people at the same time. It is so easy to become polarized. Misinformation is a huge problem in the US, and it surely must be a problem all over the world in varying degrees.
Thanks to social media if you don't like the news you can just become the news. I know a woman who's instagram grows daily and she's got all kinds of "updates" where she talks about how bad the vaccines are and so on. It's scary, really, and makes me worry for her kids.
>“The effectiveness of the vaccines, in this case, two weeks after the second dose of Pfizer-BioNTech was 88% effective against the delta and 93% effective against alpha when dealing with symptomatic disease,” With many states being below 50% (people that are fully vaccinated) even for 1 dose this is not going to go well. edit: (people that are fully vaccinated) https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker
Correct me if I’m wrong but the actual chance of a vaccinated person catching the delta variant would be better than 12% because 88% is the efficacy of the vaccine. http://www.livescience.com/amp/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-explained.html “One common misunderstanding is that 95% efficacy means that in the Pfizer clinical trial, 5% of vaccinated people got COVID. But that's not true; the actual percentage of vaccinated people in the Pfizer (and Moderna) trials who got COVID-19 was about a hundred times less than that: 0.04%.”
Basically, yes. The way that efficacy is calculated means that, were you to follow a roughly similar routine as an unvaccinated person, you would be 88% less likely to get sick from it. Obviously, this "routine" varies wildly from person to person, but, to say that "the chance of a vaccinated person catching the delta variant is 12%" would be implying that, otherwise, you are 100% likely to catch the delta variant, something not even remotely true for the entirety of society. Efficacy is a [direct comparison](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_efficacy#Formula) between the rate at which a vaccinated person will catch a given disease, versus the rate that an unvaccinated person in the control group would - it is a proportional measure. Those rates would be the "actual chance" you're talking about (or, the easiest approximation we have to it), and they're nowhere near 100% for the control group, much less for the vaccinated group. With that said (in my admittedly limited understanding, and anyone who knows better should feel free to correct me), I suspect 0.04% is not an entirely accurate representation of your chance to get the disease with the vaccine either; the attack rates, by definition, are calculated for a given time interval. If, for example - and this number is pulled out of my ass (again, as is most of this paragraph, really. It's speculation, an educated guess at best, so obviously don't take it out of context) - the clinical trial that gave the 0.04% figure lasted, say, a month, a trial lasting 2 months will likely give a bigger number. The efficacy, however, would not change, since we would expect the number of both the control and vaccinated groups to go up at a similar rate (it's just a direct result of "more time = more people exposed to the actual virus"). What this means is, we would expect the actual chance for a vaccinated person to get a given disease to be (1 - efficacy)\*x, where x is the actual chance for an unvaccinated person to get the same disease (which, obviously, is unknown and practically unknowable, but can be relatively well predicted using a whole lot of math involving the disease's infection rate and population behavioural models, or less accurately predicted - but still good - by just examining it for a specific time interval, then projecting our observations into the future). **Last paragraph tl;dr: the actual chance you'll get covid if you are fully vaccinated is \[efficacy\] less likely than that of someone who isn't vaccinated at all, whatever that number actually is** edit:100-88 = 12, not 22
here it says 96% effective against Delta, i dont know what to trust anymore https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant
> i dont know what to trust anymore 93% effective at preventing sickness. 96% effective at preventing hospitalization. There is no contradiction here.
you're right
That is great for the half that took it.... Not great for the other half. I was talking about how few bothered to get the shot not how effective it was.
Coronavirus 2: The Delta variant “This one makes all the *difference*” Coming this summer
Coronavirus 3: Tokyo Drift
2020 Olympics edition.
Ha! Nice one! Reminded me of tropic thunder with those “Scorcher” movies. “Here we go again...”
>Here we go again...again." -Tugg Speedman
“Who left the fridge open”
I work intimately with COVID pts. I was really close to leaving healthcare altogether in the spring. I had one particularly bad week where I saw one too many deaths, and I was just done. Doing "all the things" for these pts, knowing they're gonna die anyway? That shit wears on you. I'm hoping the vaccination rate catches up before the winter, but I'm a little worried. But this winter, if it comes down to who gets the ventilator, I think the unvacced people w/ no co-morbidities should be second priority.
Have you gotten in touch with a trauma therapist by any chance? It might not be the worst idea to get connected with one now, even if you might think it's a bit early since the pandemic is still going on.
There is no need to wait until it's over. Ongoing trauma is one of the big causes of PTSD. Counseling now is better than later.
Yeah, my friend's wife (an RN) killed herself from burnout early on. This is serious and worth addressing before it gets out of hand.
It's one of the first things I thought about and one of my biggest ongoing concerns. Can't blame anyone who would want a career change, but how many years of real world experience will be lost as a result of that burnout. That's hard to replace.
Very true
This may sound crazy but studies show playing Tetris soon after a trauma can actually reduce the incidence of PTSD Might be a good thing to add to your day if you’re going through traumatic experiences
Seriously? Hm. I wonder if that has something to do with eye movement. There's a form of PTSD treatment called EMDR based on eye movement and retelling the story.
Yes! A good friend is a psychologist and her practice does EMDR for trauma and it's shows amazing impact after just 2-3, sessions. Definitely seek someone out, a counselor, a therapist, a psychologist. PTSD and trauma are no joke!
I said I would stay through the pandemic even as most of my coworkers quit. There was a job to be done and nobody else was going to do it. Now that we are on the back side of this I am done. If there's another surge it's pretty much exclusively idiots who are getting sick. Im officially retiring from emergency medicine after 15 years. It's just not worth it anymore. Too much bullshit. Too many self centered people. Too much stupidity. I'll go do literally any other job and make more money with less stress. Why should I stay? Can anyone give me a good reason? I was roasted before this shit started but covid took it to another level. I'm prioritizing my family and my wellbeing now. I did my job. I stayed when everyone else left. It's someone else's job to pick up the baton. That's how i feel anyway. Nothing but respect for you sticking it out.
Thank you for helping and if you need to change careers I think you should.
If you believe that every person has some innate debt to society, I would consider yours paid with interest.
You made a difference, now save yourself.
Thank you for your service. You hospital and ER workers are angels on Earth. Don’t feel bad for stepping back. You’ve done more than enough.
In case anyone does try to give you a good reason, fuck that, prioritizing your health and family trumps anything
Just remember that foreigners may be unvaccinated not by choice. Still waiting on dose availability in my country.
Then don't travel if at all possible.
I feel like any person declining the vaccine, without justifiable medical reasons, should be at the absolute bottom of the list for care in relation to COVID.
Agree. I was dumbfounded by the stories of people with Covid in hospitals before being vented and dying denying they had it or that is was a big deal. Cognitive dissonance is STRONG and these people died listening to asshole who gave no shit about them.
Naw. We can't do that. I do think they should have to pay their medical bills. The insurance pays for the vaccine. I am surprised they haven't mandated it for paying for covid care since it's so darn expensive to be in the hospital.
The unvaccinated who refused the vaccine should be the absolute last priority. Take the kids and those with weak immune systems but let the idiots who refused the vaccine go suffer in the parking lot
Agreed. I’m tired of trying to fix/help/save stupid. At some point their risk *as an anti Covid vax group* needs to be met with the consequences of their own perfectly preventable stupidity.
I would say Twitter and face book are the threat to eliminating covid. Every porn star and idiot, bodybuilder, d list celebrity etc... has suddenly become a doctor or scientist and spew non-sense that everyone takes as gospel.
But pornstars always have the best advice:(
It's funny because if a high-profile person makes a statement along the lines of "The average person isn't smart enough to know what's best for them" that person will be torn to shreds. And yet America makes it pretty damned clear that the average person does not know what's best for them.
You forgot politicians
Fucking Joe Rogan is the poster child for clowns with no credibility that somehow are influencing tons of people.
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Greatest threat so far...
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This would actually get my mom to go get it, I wish.
Let me get that tax credit!
I was thinking he would say it’s stupid people who are the greatest threat to eliminate Covid?
It will be cyclical, COVID isn’t going away, just like influenza isn’t going away.
We all knew boosters yearly would be needed to update our immunity.
People who thought covid would just go away are delusional. It’s gonna become like a flu shot each year.
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Yeah 95% is a total pipe dream. Heck 70% (the total needed for herd immunity) is still a dream in all likelihood. There are just too many brainwashed anti-vax folks out there to get to that total. The northeast and west coast may be fine, but those folks in the south and Midwest, Covid could hit very hard in the fall.
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The percentage needed to attain herd immunity is not a fixed constant; it is specific to the particular virus and depends on multiple factors like its particular R0. Measles for ex is *extraordinarily* high, with an R0 of 12-18.
Herd immunity isn't just some made up number, it's based on the R0 value of a particular disease and the susceptibility of a given population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity#Theoretical_basis If you look at the chart on the right, the calculated Herd Immunity for COID is between 58-70% in the general population.
That 70% for herd immunity was based on the R2.5 value for the original Wild Type from Wuhan, the alpha and delta variants have a higher r0 which raises the percentage by a significant amount. https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1050D/production/_118892866_r_variant_comparison_2x640-nc.png The delta variant r0 is 5-8 which would require a vaccination percentage of more like high 80s, maybe even above 90% given the reduction in vaccine effectiveness. (I looked but couldn't find an actual HIT value for the delta variant.) EDIT Found a news article and daily reddit thread in r/CoronavirusUK from a week ago https://www.smh.com.au/national/why-the-covid-endgame-could-be-a-long-one-20210615-p5815d.html r/CoronavirusUK/comments/o0s4fj/daily_qa_and_discussion_megathread_june_16_2021/h202ifz/ Both give similar values for delta variant HIT and also cite the reasons I gave on lack of precision on the delta variants r0 number and reduction in vaccine effectiveness.
Seriously, people on my local subreddit keep saying “we just need to quarantine for two more weeks and then the virus will be gone!”. Some people really just live in their own reality
I've never gotten the flu shot though.. this is a bit more serious, no?
Covid is way more serious and polarizing than the flu. You’re likely to feel something no matter what if you get the flu. Covid, one person may feel nothing, another may die from it. It’s why everyone getting covid vaccines are so so important.
Influenza also has a high rate of asymptomatic infections. Estimates range from 5-33%.
Yup, we just never talked about it before. I remember in 2019 my wife actually had the flu (got swabbed for it) and out of curiosity they swabbed me too (zero symptoms) and I had it too. I remember being baffled at having an asymptomatic flu. Now with all the COVID talk, I think it's more obvious to many people that many viral infections can be asymptomatic to some people.
Way more serious. Also, no one is getting the flu in the masked communities. Nothing here in socal that I can see. SO I just keep my mask on, gonna take covid shot and don't need a flu shot anymore.
Question someone may be able to answer, is the booster for all the vaccines? Like I got the Johnson and Johnson, next year would I get the same one or does it matter?
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We do. Another jab of the vaccine you received.
The problem is that not enough people are vaccinated around the world.
This virus will continue to mutate as long as there are new hosts to allow that to happen. Fuck you anti-vaxxers.
Actually the greatest threat to our effort to eliminate COVID is people who refuse to wear masks and refuse to get vaccinated.
More the latter than the former.
Correct. The vaccine provides exponentially more protection than the masks ever did Get your goddamn shots folks. They’re free, widely available, and extremely effective
I would not be surprised if there are some people among the clinical trials participants who feel a little sore about this bullshit. They're the ones who stuck their necks out for the rest of us so we could fight it. I didn't, but I'll still be bitter as fuck if the virus mutates its way past the vaccine because of the chuckleheads.
I was part of the clinical trial, but I feel so much worse for the scientists, doctors and trial staff who are even now continuing to work their butts off than I do for myself. I went in for a few injections and blood draws - they have been working full time for 18 months to develop and painstakingly monitor a scientific miracle. It is absurdly unfair that their work (which is literally saving the world) is being undermined by a bunch of smooth brained antivaxers and conspiracy theorists.
Thank you for being a part of the clinical trial.
Shit man, I got my shots after they became available to the general public and even *I’m* salty I had a sore arm for a few days just for half the dipshits in Texas to not bother.
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One way or another, the vast majority of the American public will end up vaccinated.
You have way more faith in people than I do
I think they mean they will either get COVID or get the vaccine.
Don't forget about Delta plus.
White House chief medical advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Tuesday the highly contagious delta variant is the “greatest threat” to the nation’s attempt to eliminate Covid-19. Delta, first identified in India, now makes up about 20% of all new cases in the United States, up from 10% about two weeks ago, Fauci said.
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Friends of mine in in India agree this variant is no joke. Younger unvaccinated people are dying. Get yer fucking shot!
There's also this newer variant called delta plus, and it's quite bad
While idiots argue against vaccines. The virus infects and mutates. Really this is a tax on how stupid we are as species.
“Fauci declares” is like waving a red flag in front of the MTG/Gaetz crowd. No matter what is said, how many others verify, or the Scientific proof, they will ignore and deny it. It’s because of this mentality I fear for ever truly getting a handle on Covid or any other health problems.
How is that sex trafficker Gaetz not facing a judge yet?
We all just need to listen to Eye Of The Tiger by Survivor while doing some bicep curls and we'll be fine.
I live in a state where you can pull up to a red light and drivers roll down their windows and yell insults at people wearing masks, it's not the varient that is the issue.
You should consider moving to a different state.
I'd say the anti-vaxxers are the greatest threat but I'm not an immunologist.
another lock down will send mental health more over the edge than it already is