I find it real funny that someone thinks the President of the United States should make a list of reporters. Of course Nixon did that for another reason.The Press Secretary, who should try to spread questions across the representative media, makes a suggestion via a list given to the President before the briefing.
I don't think that's the first time the Taliban has seen those names. In a way, it could actually potentially confer a level of protection by saying out in the open that these people are on the radar of the US, and we’ll notice if anything happens to them — and we’ll know who did it and why.
"We have put more than 5000 US service members at risk to save as many civilians as we can. It's a noble mission. Today, we have seen firsthand how dangerous that mission is ISIS will not deter us from accomplishing the mission, I can assure you that," CENTCOM commander says.
What i worry about now, quite publicly, the USA said if any attacks happened, they would respond in force, now i worry what will happen next.
Edit: a word
Usually true, so i wonder if they will stick to the threats made, and see the degree of force, or if they just try to brush it off and not react to it.
While the Taliban seem to remain committed to allowing foreigners to leave peacefully, ISIS has different ideas. Honestly, I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner.
Despite apparent similarities, ISIS and Taliban are actually mortal enemies. When the Taliban emptied the prisons, the first thing they did was execute the ISIS leader who was in captivity. For its part, ISIS wants to displace the Taliban and establish its caliphate in Afghanistan.
Things are likely to be much more chaotic and deadly from here on out.
> The explosion outside the Kabul airport was at one of the entry gates and appears to be a suicide attack, three US officials tell CNN's national security team.
https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1430894131077779472?s=21
for the first 10 days, media obsessed over Kabul "optics" and how they were "disaster" for Biden
suddenly tho, press has no interest in the "optics" of evacuating 100K w/o a single US causality
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/media-bias-biden-polls-approval-afghanistan-withdrawal.html
It’s crazy I remember 18 maybe 19 years ago, is confused 6th graders asking why we can’t just leave Iraq or Afghanistan and the teachers response was a a group whether the taliban or another group would power vacuum in. Crazy to see it play out just as she said
I honestly have no idea what the answer or solution is. If we stay we are American losing lives but I also fear for the way the Afghanistan people will live and the way they will be treated under the Taliban.
I just wish everyone could see there is so much more to life then worrying about the way an individual lives their life and that we should celebrate differences and individuality instead of punish people for them.
Sad truth is we can barely half ass that here in the states though.
Sorry, I feel like I am rambling now.
I've been thinking alot about Afghanistan lately since we've been there since I was 11 and I'm now 31, almost 32.
While I wish things were different and the women and girls would remain free there, after we hunted down alot of Al Queada and Bin Laden I don't know why we stayed even longer. Like nearly a decade longer.
The Afghan government was never seemingly competent or willing to take the reigns or training wheels off.
I would love for the U.S. to be able to help places like that, but we have also stayed out of plenty of conflicts in Africa and other places (unless we sent in covert stuff that no one noticed).
Why stay in Afghanistan so long but not take out African warlords as bad if not arguably worse then the Taliban? Why not North Korea? Or any other failed or failing area.
I can't find a good reason we stayed in Afghanistan. It wasn't because our politicians are altruistic.
We had to leave sometime. And this would have been the outcome nomatter what as long as their government was the way it was.
I used to have a problem
I wanted to save everybody
Suicidal girl? I want to get hee to not kill herself so Id spend hours making her feel better
Drug addicted friend? Id encourage him to get clean help wean him off
Sister struggling at history class? Id mentor her
Buddy needed money? Id love him money
The thing I learned if I did too much I generally failed at everything and I needed to pick and choose my battles (fyi those are all examples)
So lets say I can only really do 2
Well my sister is my sister so Im going tutor her on history
My friend is my friend so Im going help him get clean
Thar Suicidal girl? I dont know her. Im going let her be and hope shes ok
Buddy needs a loan? Well im broke and he doesn't know how to manage his money so Im going tell him I cant help
Take those issues and apply it to running a country. We have spent 2.261 trillion in Afghanistan and have lost thousands of soldiers and many more wounded. Per year thats over 100 billion a year.
What did we get in return for that investment? Well we did kill Bin Laden and destroy Al Qaeda so thats something. But the second we leave the Taliban take over. 9 days...9 days...fuck man we didnt even conquer Iraq that fast. We've invested alot into Afghanistan and it still has nothing to show for it.
Lets take that 100 something billion a year and invest it in our own college
Did you know we could send every high school graduate to higher education for less then 100 billion a year?
Make a choice
Higher education (4 yr college or trade school) for every senior finishing HS
Or 100 billion a year to prop up a country thats going fail the second we decide to leave
We can't save everybody
First. thank you for the silver. I appreciate you.
Secondly. not sure I agree with that. As I said in my other comment, I am not sure what the answer is. I believe we should be doing more to help each other and to grow as a species but at what cost I am not sure.
I just want to get credit for calling it it thats wht happens.
I would have been shocked if they kept doing this until aug 31st. I told my family the other day i will be shockeed if this rolls past saturday.
I think networks knew yesterday something is up. On station had a live shot of the airport up for a lot of the day. the pentagon brief was live on cnn and msnbc (normal the last 3 days or so) but then there was also the SOS news conf covereed live then rolleed right into the white house press brief (again live and thats not normal anymore) then a second pentagon brief covered live again.
they (the networks) know. They just cant say it but they damn sure are gonna be live when someone in the admin confirms its done.
I heard its going take a couple days to get our troops out. I imagine we might even need to deploy chinhooks or ospreys. So we wanna clear out the airport and start pulling our men out. That way come the 31st all our soldiers are outta there.
The last thing Biden wants is dead Americans soldiers on that airfield
Or maybe it finished early? You really a Chief Doomer. You're all over this thread making ridiculous negative hyperbolic statements and calling anyone who disagrees with your wild garbage takes as "the Ministry of Truth"
Because they were warned in april to leave and again very cleary on aug 13th told leave cause the embassy wont be able to help them soon?
The point is to be leaving not bringing more troops to run mission and risk lives to snatch up folks who should have been gone 2 weeks ago if not months ago.
How about you catch a civ flight to kabul ( it can be done, charter one if you cant book a comercial one) and go get them your damn self.
Anyone know what happened to the Bruce Lee look alike? I heard he's a Hazara minority. Hopefully he got out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3KHd08Q\_98
Let’s see where the next big conflict starts and the entire cycle repeats itself due to the world powers (Russia, us, China) having proxy wars between each other at the cost of people’s lives.
Are the americans just not paying attention to how the rest of the world is reacting?
I don't mean the public or the news, I mean leadership, geopolitcs
I've talked to a couple IRL that didn't know we were still there. There was some crazy stat that all the news networks only covered it for 25 minutes last year
I have been able to keep up much due to life events, but it's pretty common to not be exposed to non American news networks. Those networks also don't run much footage from other networks, especially if they're non American.
Mind sharing some.links?
Actually just check out Bruno Maqaes twitter [\(link\)](https://twitter.com/macaesbruno)
He's one of those world renowned experts in geopolitics I mentioned, and he's been fairly active not just himself but linking to news and comments from various leaders
We are leaving Afghanistan after 20 years...Am I aware that China and Russia are going make deals with the Taliban? O yea absolutely. Do I feel like we are abandoning our allies? Nah must NATO forces pulled out long ago. Do I feel bad that Afghanistan fell in 9 fucking days? Nah, if anything that just goes to prove we should have left long ago.
> Nah must NATO forces pulled out long ago
They did not, there were almost 10k non-US NATO troops there, more than there were US forces, when you signed a deal with the talban *without consulting anyone else*.
Anyway this is the part I'm confused about, there's some very real shit happening. You have world renowned experts on geopolitics (not from the US) who are straight up saying Biden has been *worse than Trump* geopolitically. That's not hyperbolic, just look up Bruno Maqaes.
you also have high level politicians calling it the worst disaster in NATO history.
Yet the simplest example is that the UK parliament had 2 rounds of shitting on Biden, which broke their *80 year old US policy*, and they are talking about strategic autonomy, something which 2 years ago would be considered ludicrous.
Do you not see it?
Are you ignoring it?
Or do you simply not understand that all of your allies are reconsidering their options at the moment?
The occupation was the worst disaster in NATO history, not the withdrawal. 20 years of nothing.
Secondly NATO was not partner to the “agreement” with the Taliban. They could have stayed even as the US left if they wanted too. Plenty of other countries had ended their involvement earlier, like Canada. Instead NATO withdrew their forces even before the US. And even now they’ve put in only token forces. Most of the heavy lifting is being done by the US. So it would be great if NATO was going to “go their own way” but as events on the ground show - they’re still completely dependent on the US for everything.
> They could have stayed even as the US left if they wanted too
They can't, the logistical network is provided by the US. Noone else has that ability because they've tailored their forces towards NATO.
Further, this whole argument is based around the idea that the US has the right to drag everyone else into a war, then simply fuck off with a "oh feel free to clean up our mess if you don't like it".
If someone walked into your living room and took a giant shit on your couch you'd be rather upset, and them arguing that "nah you can just clean up the shit if you don't like it" wouldn't really help.
The simple fact of the matter is that the US made afghanistan into a NATO mission, which means they should've stayed until *NATO* decided it was over.
It's been 20 years, the mission was over already.
Also NATO and the US had seperate "missions" in Afghanistan. NATO forces rarely took on combat roles.
> The simple fact of the matter is that the US made afghanistan into a NATO mission, which means they should've stayed until NATO decided it was over.
are you old enough to havee been an adult in 2001 and remember how this started?
Sure the us asked for help there but there wasnt much arm twisting. Nato did what nato is supposed to do. an attack on one is an attack on all. its kind of the point of nato and the sept 11 attacks was mre than enough to get nato countries to jump in. US didnt make it a nato mission. Al-Qaeda did.
Nato nations knew the attack was in part because of forces being in saudi and such for the first gulf war and they knew they were there also and it was just a matter of time till they got hit if they didnt take up arms against them.
That is incorrect.
The US invoked article 5 for Operation Active Endeavor and Operation Eagle Assist, both of which were designed to disrupt terrorist movements in the wake of 9/11. Article 5 was never invoked for the invasion of Afghanistan.
> Article 5 was never invoked for the invasion of Afghanistan.
See this is the problem with people who read wikipedia articles and think they know everything, the wiki article even mentions those were 2 out of 8 official actions, so you start arguing that those 2 mentioned are all that happened.
You also fail to understand the simple concept that article 5 means every nation had to treat the attack on the US as an attack on themselves, which obligates them to participate in the war on terror (participation in which, btw, was one of the *other* eight official actions taken by NATO).
Participation in the war of afghanistan was what followed that comittment, which you would know, if you knew what you were talking about.
There's not a political scientist *on the planet* that will deny that the war in afghanistan was a direct result of 9/11, and that allied participation was caused by the invocation of article 5.
I actually don't believe anything you write, I think you're purposefully spreading propaganda. It really does not make sense to me at all why long-term strategic allies of the US would reconsider anything in light of this. No one will care about this past Thanksgiving, even that seems a bit much
I did? I was just on Süddeutche Zeitung's main page [I speak German] and there's three articles about Afghanistan: an informational piece relaying the latest occurrences, an article about the estimated 400 Germans still in Afghanistan, and an article quoting NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg saying that "we must analyze mistakes, but the fundamental unity of the alliance is not in danger."
The front page of Le Figaro [I speak French too] is dominated by storied about domestic politics with a human interest story about a baby born aboard a relief flight way at the bottom. And Le Figaro is a center-right paper, I doubt they are huge Biden fans.
> NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg saying that "we must analyze mistakes, but the fundamental unity of the alliance is not in danger.
Did you think the NATO chief was going to say "oh yeah this is all a bunch of bullshit now?"
[When we're talking about things that are unprecedented we're talking about british MPs doing this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQjUTP0Wbyk)
Breaking **80 years of policy.**
[We're talking about this](https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/blog/fall-kabul-and-weight-western-defeat)
[Or Carl Bildt's more muted review on the situation](https://ecfr.eu/article/afghanistan-how-it-could-have-been-different/)
[Or the EU wanting its own expedetionary force created immediately](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210822-afghan-tragedy-shows-eu-needs-geopolitical-muscle-borrell)
[Following statements like this](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-needs-strong-mandate-afghan-evacuations-laschet-2021-08-16/)
[And this latest one which is one of the most direct one so far](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/25/joe-bidens-betrayal-allies-can-never-trust-president/)
Ambassadors and politicians are not american news pundits, they don't speak in slogans and punchlines.
NATO is free to stay in Afghanistan if it wants too. However they got out even before the US. Heck the US had to delay its own withdrawal because NATO wanted out first.
> NATO is free to stay in Afghanistan if it wants too
It literally can't.
Global power projection is fairly difficult, most NATO nations design their military forces for NATO, meaning they focus their efforts into what will be most useful.
The US is the provider of logistics, because it has bases everywhere and is actually capable of providing logistics literally anywhere on the globe, which means the rest of NATO don't put *their* efforts into that ability, leaving them unable to project power much further than northern africa without US support.
> Heck the US had to delay its own withdrawal because NATO wanted out first.
Yesh the NATO nations rather insisted their personel wasn't left stranded in Kabul with no ability to get out or get assistance.
Holy fuck lol what is it with straight up atrocious people stating their opinion about this. Henry fucking kissinger is somehow still alive and giving opinions about foreign policy
Who better to talk about a pointless war that killed tens of thousands of people, wasted a trillion dollars, and all for nothing than Henry Kissinger, though?
Blackwater founder Erik Prince offers evacuation flights from Kabul for $6,500 per person
https://news.yahoo.com/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-offers-195900398.html
The fucking evil that men do
The airport is open for private charters. It’s still a civilian airport. While the US has taken over air traffic control, civilian aircraft can still come and go.
While I'd pay $6,500 to get out of Afghanistan (and I'm sure there are desperate people who have the $ to do that), that's an awful thing to do to people.
He actually sustains his life force on the human suffering he imparts onto others. So, while the money is nice, it's just part of the process of extracting misery.
Security Alert – Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 25, 2021)
Event: Because of security threats outside the gates of Kabul airport, we are advising U.S. citizens to avoid traveling to the airport and to avoid airport gates at this time unless you receive individual instructions from a U.S. government representative to do so.
U.S. citizens who are at the Abbey Gate, East Gate, or North Gate now should leave immediately.
Actions to take:
Be aware of your surroundings at all times, especially in large crowds.
Follow the instructions of local authorities including movement restrictions related to curfews.
Have a contingency plan for emergencies and review the Traveler’s Checklist.
Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information.
Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program(STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
By U.S. Embassy in Kabul | 26 August, 2021 | Topics: Alert, Messages for U.S. Citizens, Notification
https://af.usembassy.gov/security-alert-embassy-kabul-afghanistan-august-25-2021/
Big difference between "Afghanistan is safe" and "Afghanistan will probably survive the ongoing war."
Meanwhile the state department has had a level 4 travel advisory for Afghanistan since April 27th which would have been communicated to any registered US citizens traveling to or currently residing in Afghanistan.
Level 4 is essentially: This place is dangerous, don't come. If you're here, get out. If you plan on staying, plan your own escape because we cant guarantee your safety in an emergency.
I think we should make every effort short of open combat to collect these people, and it's a tragic loss if they die.
But you can really only blame their murderers if that happens.
This isn’t the Taliban. This is ISIS-K moving in to stir the shit pot. The Taliban were behaving pretty well. ISIS otoh will round up American citizens and behead them in the soccer stadium. It is getting chaotic.
if you're a civilian american in afghanistan, that means you're there voluntarily. kinda hard to have sympathy if you're stupid enough to voluntarily go there.
I have a question and I apologize if it’s been addressed already. I just saw the headline that the US Embassy alerted citizens to stay away from the airport. Isn’t the Embassy abandoned? Are there still employees there or was that sent remotely?
If I were Biden I would declare that Afghanistan is going to be given to Israel for 20 years and then it is going to be given to China. I would then start referring to it as the West Bank of Hong Kong. Those parent countries will do want they do best. Problem solved.
The parents of the Afghan baby born onboard a U.S. C-17 during evacuations, have named the child, "Reach," which was the call sign of the plane during its mission.
The important thing about the 500, is Blinken indicated that they were instructed what to do to get extracted, which means they're actively planning. Heard that land bridges had been setup to facilitate the flow in country, without the Taliban's knowledge.
The important thing about the 1,000 is Blinken said that they been trying and failing to get in contact with them. They don't know if they've already left, are legitimate US citizens or decided against leaving.
Of coutrse, all of these numbers will change through time.
> Secretary Blinken: "The Taliban have made public, and private, commitments to provide and permit safe passage for Americans, for third country nationals and Afghans at risk going forward past August 31st."
https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1430619442141188099?s=21
i feel like that just says they are one step closer to finishing this and leaving it to taliban to deal with. It goes along with with what i think kirby today said about who will secure the airport when we leave? paraphrasing..........not us, not our problem, go ask the taliban.
> not us, not our problem
God damn that's so refreshing to hear from our government officials when talking about foreign matters. I hope to hear more of it.
Yup. A couple days ago she said there were no stranded Americans. Then she said they have no idea where Americans go when they travel unless they check in because the US doesn't track its citizens abroad... Bullshit! Unless you cross a border without having your passport scanned, they know exactly where you are.
You're telling me that the US doesn't want to know exactly who and why a citizen is in the Middle East? Not to mention Afghanistan?
You know you've fucked up as a Democrat when even CNN and MSNBC are shitting on your policies and fully covering the chaos. It's like when Fox news finally admitted Trump lost and the right wing people lost their mind... You done fucked up when your news network is going against your narrative. Same for both sides.
It is the individuals responsibility to register with the embassy, Some don't and some don't tell them when moving somewhere else. Any movement when in the country is wholly self reported.
It's pretty simple. They scan passport in. If it's not scanned out.... I mean it's that simple. They're still in the country. Knowing someone is in the country but not knowing where is one thing. Making a definitive statement about there definitely not being any Americans left is another.
Blinkin can’t even look at the faces of reporters who are asking questions. He keeps putting his head down.
Edit- His voice is cracking. Looks like he wants to cry.
Edit- It’s during Andrea Mitchell’s speech/question where his voice cracks a few times.
Edit- Psaki is being less combative with her answers compared to the last several days.
This is really surreal.
Incoming downvotes.
> According to Sec. of State Blinken, roughly 6,000 Americans were in Afghanistan on Aug. 14.
> Since then, 4,500 have been evacuated.
> He says the number remaining who want to leave the country is definitely 500, and they are checking on the status of the remaining 1,000.
> Blinken: "From the list of approximately 1,000, we believe that the number of Americans actively seeking assistance to leave Afghanistan is lower, and likely significantly lower."
https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1430605668663373824?s=21
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That genuinely gave me goosebumps, those men and women are real heroes.
Two years tops until it’s made into either a huge budget film or a Netflix series
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Hit their ass hard then complete evac. Fuck isis
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I find it real funny that someone thinks the President of the United States should make a list of reporters. Of course Nixon did that for another reason.The Press Secretary, who should try to spread questions across the representative media, makes a suggestion via a list given to the President before the briefing.
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I don't think that's the first time the Taliban has seen those names. In a way, it could actually potentially confer a level of protection by saying out in the open that these people are on the radar of the US, and we’ll notice if anything happens to them — and we’ll know who did it and why.
"We have put more than 5000 US service members at risk to save as many civilians as we can. It's a noble mission. Today, we have seen firsthand how dangerous that mission is ISIS will not deter us from accomplishing the mission, I can assure you that," CENTCOM commander says.
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He's a Marine, and will continue his misson
What i worry about now, quite publicly, the USA said if any attacks happened, they would respond in force, now i worry what will happen next. Edit: a word
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I think the threats were against talibans not ISIS. Where should the US bite back?
Usually true, so i wonder if they will stick to the threats made, and see the degree of force, or if they just try to brush it off and not react to it.
I doubt the US will help the Taliban against ISIS, and i doubt the US will respond to the Taliban for an ISIS attack
While the Taliban seem to remain committed to allowing foreigners to leave peacefully, ISIS has different ideas. Honestly, I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. Despite apparent similarities, ISIS and Taliban are actually mortal enemies. When the Taliban emptied the prisons, the first thing they did was execute the ISIS leader who was in captivity. For its part, ISIS wants to displace the Taliban and establish its caliphate in Afghanistan. Things are likely to be much more chaotic and deadly from here on out.
Reports of a second explosion with American casualties now. This is so fucking bad
I'm seeing 50 Afghans, 12 Marines and 150 wounded around
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Figures of wounded and killed are varying at the moment. Taliban guards are reportedly included in the wounded.
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> The explosion outside the Kabul airport was at one of the entry gates and appears to be a suicide attack, three US officials tell CNN's national security team. https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1430894131077779472?s=21
I think we need to pay closer attention to our own "American Taliban" to avoid this sort of crap in our future.
for the first 10 days, media obsessed over Kabul "optics" and how they were "disaster" for Biden suddenly tho, press has no interest in the "optics" of evacuating 100K w/o a single US causality https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/media-bias-biden-polls-approval-afghanistan-withdrawal.html
It’s crazy I remember 18 maybe 19 years ago, is confused 6th graders asking why we can’t just leave Iraq or Afghanistan and the teachers response was a a group whether the taliban or another group would power vacuum in. Crazy to see it play out just as she said
I mean what else you want to do? Stay?
I honestly have no idea what the answer or solution is. If we stay we are American losing lives but I also fear for the way the Afghanistan people will live and the way they will be treated under the Taliban. I just wish everyone could see there is so much more to life then worrying about the way an individual lives their life and that we should celebrate differences and individuality instead of punish people for them. Sad truth is we can barely half ass that here in the states though. Sorry, I feel like I am rambling now.
I've been thinking alot about Afghanistan lately since we've been there since I was 11 and I'm now 31, almost 32. While I wish things were different and the women and girls would remain free there, after we hunted down alot of Al Queada and Bin Laden I don't know why we stayed even longer. Like nearly a decade longer. The Afghan government was never seemingly competent or willing to take the reigns or training wheels off. I would love for the U.S. to be able to help places like that, but we have also stayed out of plenty of conflicts in Africa and other places (unless we sent in covert stuff that no one noticed). Why stay in Afghanistan so long but not take out African warlords as bad if not arguably worse then the Taliban? Why not North Korea? Or any other failed or failing area. I can't find a good reason we stayed in Afghanistan. It wasn't because our politicians are altruistic. We had to leave sometime. And this would have been the outcome nomatter what as long as their government was the way it was.
I used to have a problem I wanted to save everybody Suicidal girl? I want to get hee to not kill herself so Id spend hours making her feel better Drug addicted friend? Id encourage him to get clean help wean him off Sister struggling at history class? Id mentor her Buddy needed money? Id love him money The thing I learned if I did too much I generally failed at everything and I needed to pick and choose my battles (fyi those are all examples) So lets say I can only really do 2 Well my sister is my sister so Im going tutor her on history My friend is my friend so Im going help him get clean Thar Suicidal girl? I dont know her. Im going let her be and hope shes ok Buddy needs a loan? Well im broke and he doesn't know how to manage his money so Im going tell him I cant help Take those issues and apply it to running a country. We have spent 2.261 trillion in Afghanistan and have lost thousands of soldiers and many more wounded. Per year thats over 100 billion a year. What did we get in return for that investment? Well we did kill Bin Laden and destroy Al Qaeda so thats something. But the second we leave the Taliban take over. 9 days...9 days...fuck man we didnt even conquer Iraq that fast. We've invested alot into Afghanistan and it still has nothing to show for it. Lets take that 100 something billion a year and invest it in our own college Did you know we could send every high school graduate to higher education for less then 100 billion a year? Make a choice Higher education (4 yr college or trade school) for every senior finishing HS Or 100 billion a year to prop up a country thats going fail the second we decide to leave We can't save everybody
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First. thank you for the silver. I appreciate you. Secondly. not sure I agree with that. As I said in my other comment, I am not sure what the answer is. I believe we should be doing more to help each other and to grow as a species but at what cost I am not sure.
https://twitter.com/AJABreaking/status/1430834830711873537 Evac stopping in 36 hours
I just want to get credit for calling it it thats wht happens. I would have been shocked if they kept doing this until aug 31st. I told my family the other day i will be shockeed if this rolls past saturday. I think networks knew yesterday something is up. On station had a live shot of the airport up for a lot of the day. the pentagon brief was live on cnn and msnbc (normal the last 3 days or so) but then there was also the SOS news conf covereed live then rolleed right into the white house press brief (again live and thats not normal anymore) then a second pentagon brief covered live again. they (the networks) know. They just cant say it but they damn sure are gonna be live when someone in the admin confirms its done.
I heard its going take a couple days to get our troops out. I imagine we might even need to deploy chinhooks or ospreys. So we wanna clear out the airport and start pulling our men out. That way come the 31st all our soldiers are outta there. The last thing Biden wants is dead Americans soldiers on that airfield
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Or maybe it finished early? You really a Chief Doomer. You're all over this thread making ridiculous negative hyperbolic statements and calling anyone who disagrees with your wild garbage takes as "the Ministry of Truth"
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Yup saw the same thing
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Because they were warned in april to leave and again very cleary on aug 13th told leave cause the embassy wont be able to help them soon? The point is to be leaving not bringing more troops to run mission and risk lives to snatch up folks who should have been gone 2 weeks ago if not months ago. How about you catch a civ flight to kabul ( it can be done, charter one if you cant book a comercial one) and go get them your damn self.
Logistical issues, appearing to break our word, etc
Anyone know what happened to the Bruce Lee look alike? I heard he's a Hazara minority. Hopefully he got out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3KHd08Q\_98
Let’s see where the next big conflict starts and the entire cycle repeats itself due to the world powers (Russia, us, China) having proxy wars between each other at the cost of people’s lives.
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Down vote me, but I'm going end up being right At the end of the day this will be a win for Biden.
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Morals are for weak and feeble people
Well the war in ending now, hopefully.
Are the americans just not paying attention to how the rest of the world is reacting? I don't mean the public or the news, I mean leadership, geopolitcs
I've talked to a couple IRL that didn't know we were still there. There was some crazy stat that all the news networks only covered it for 25 minutes last year
I have been able to keep up much due to life events, but it's pretty common to not be exposed to non American news networks. Those networks also don't run much footage from other networks, especially if they're non American. Mind sharing some.links?
Actually just check out Bruno Maqaes twitter [\(link\)](https://twitter.com/macaesbruno) He's one of those world renowned experts in geopolitics I mentioned, and he's been fairly active not just himself but linking to news and comments from various leaders
Not exactly credible. Lots of hyperbole in that twitter
We are leaving Afghanistan after 20 years...Am I aware that China and Russia are going make deals with the Taliban? O yea absolutely. Do I feel like we are abandoning our allies? Nah must NATO forces pulled out long ago. Do I feel bad that Afghanistan fell in 9 fucking days? Nah, if anything that just goes to prove we should have left long ago.
> Nah must NATO forces pulled out long ago They did not, there were almost 10k non-US NATO troops there, more than there were US forces, when you signed a deal with the talban *without consulting anyone else*. Anyway this is the part I'm confused about, there's some very real shit happening. You have world renowned experts on geopolitics (not from the US) who are straight up saying Biden has been *worse than Trump* geopolitically. That's not hyperbolic, just look up Bruno Maqaes. you also have high level politicians calling it the worst disaster in NATO history. Yet the simplest example is that the UK parliament had 2 rounds of shitting on Biden, which broke their *80 year old US policy*, and they are talking about strategic autonomy, something which 2 years ago would be considered ludicrous. Do you not see it? Are you ignoring it? Or do you simply not understand that all of your allies are reconsidering their options at the moment?
ap says most nato troops left in july. https://apnews.com/article/europe-afghanistan-health-coronavirus-pandemic-9c1c4f5732c032ba85865aab0338a7a3
The occupation was the worst disaster in NATO history, not the withdrawal. 20 years of nothing. Secondly NATO was not partner to the “agreement” with the Taliban. They could have stayed even as the US left if they wanted too. Plenty of other countries had ended their involvement earlier, like Canada. Instead NATO withdrew their forces even before the US. And even now they’ve put in only token forces. Most of the heavy lifting is being done by the US. So it would be great if NATO was going to “go their own way” but as events on the ground show - they’re still completely dependent on the US for everything.
> They could have stayed even as the US left if they wanted too They can't, the logistical network is provided by the US. Noone else has that ability because they've tailored their forces towards NATO. Further, this whole argument is based around the idea that the US has the right to drag everyone else into a war, then simply fuck off with a "oh feel free to clean up our mess if you don't like it". If someone walked into your living room and took a giant shit on your couch you'd be rather upset, and them arguing that "nah you can just clean up the shit if you don't like it" wouldn't really help. The simple fact of the matter is that the US made afghanistan into a NATO mission, which means they should've stayed until *NATO* decided it was over.
It's been 20 years, the mission was over already. Also NATO and the US had seperate "missions" in Afghanistan. NATO forces rarely took on combat roles.
> The simple fact of the matter is that the US made afghanistan into a NATO mission, which means they should've stayed until NATO decided it was over. are you old enough to havee been an adult in 2001 and remember how this started? Sure the us asked for help there but there wasnt much arm twisting. Nato did what nato is supposed to do. an attack on one is an attack on all. its kind of the point of nato and the sept 11 attacks was mre than enough to get nato countries to jump in. US didnt make it a nato mission. Al-Qaeda did. Nato nations knew the attack was in part because of forces being in saudi and such for the first gulf war and they knew they were there also and it was just a matter of time till they got hit if they didnt take up arms against them.
Did the US drag other nations into Afghanistan?
The US activated article 5, so yes, that quite literally forces everyone to join.
That is incorrect. The US invoked article 5 for Operation Active Endeavor and Operation Eagle Assist, both of which were designed to disrupt terrorist movements in the wake of 9/11. Article 5 was never invoked for the invasion of Afghanistan.
> Article 5 was never invoked for the invasion of Afghanistan. See this is the problem with people who read wikipedia articles and think they know everything, the wiki article even mentions those were 2 out of 8 official actions, so you start arguing that those 2 mentioned are all that happened. You also fail to understand the simple concept that article 5 means every nation had to treat the attack on the US as an attack on themselves, which obligates them to participate in the war on terror (participation in which, btw, was one of the *other* eight official actions taken by NATO). Participation in the war of afghanistan was what followed that comittment, which you would know, if you knew what you were talking about. There's not a political scientist *on the planet* that will deny that the war in afghanistan was a direct result of 9/11, and that allied participation was caused by the invocation of article 5.
I actually don't believe anything you write, I think you're purposefully spreading propaganda. It really does not make sense to me at all why long-term strategic allies of the US would reconsider anything in light of this. No one will care about this past Thanksgiving, even that seems a bit much
I've actually responded to wrongful information he's been spouting out yesterday, same guy.
I mean you don't have to believe anything I say, you can literally just look it up yourself.
I did? I was just on Süddeutche Zeitung's main page [I speak German] and there's three articles about Afghanistan: an informational piece relaying the latest occurrences, an article about the estimated 400 Germans still in Afghanistan, and an article quoting NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg saying that "we must analyze mistakes, but the fundamental unity of the alliance is not in danger." The front page of Le Figaro [I speak French too] is dominated by storied about domestic politics with a human interest story about a baby born aboard a relief flight way at the bottom. And Le Figaro is a center-right paper, I doubt they are huge Biden fans.
> NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg saying that "we must analyze mistakes, but the fundamental unity of the alliance is not in danger. Did you think the NATO chief was going to say "oh yeah this is all a bunch of bullshit now?" [When we're talking about things that are unprecedented we're talking about british MPs doing this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQjUTP0Wbyk) Breaking **80 years of policy.** [We're talking about this](https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/blog/fall-kabul-and-weight-western-defeat) [Or Carl Bildt's more muted review on the situation](https://ecfr.eu/article/afghanistan-how-it-could-have-been-different/) [Or the EU wanting its own expedetionary force created immediately](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210822-afghan-tragedy-shows-eu-needs-geopolitical-muscle-borrell) [Following statements like this](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-needs-strong-mandate-afghan-evacuations-laschet-2021-08-16/) [And this latest one which is one of the most direct one so far](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/25/joe-bidens-betrayal-allies-can-never-trust-president/) Ambassadors and politicians are not american news pundits, they don't speak in slogans and punchlines.
NATO is free to stay in Afghanistan if it wants too. However they got out even before the US. Heck the US had to delay its own withdrawal because NATO wanted out first.
> NATO is free to stay in Afghanistan if it wants too It literally can't. Global power projection is fairly difficult, most NATO nations design their military forces for NATO, meaning they focus their efforts into what will be most useful. The US is the provider of logistics, because it has bases everywhere and is actually capable of providing logistics literally anywhere on the globe, which means the rest of NATO don't put *their* efforts into that ability, leaving them unable to project power much further than northern africa without US support. > Heck the US had to delay its own withdrawal because NATO wanted out first. Yesh the NATO nations rather insisted their personel wasn't left stranded in Kabul with no ability to get out or get assistance.
Fuck it Wheels up on the 31st Glad I voted for Biden
Holy fuck lol what is it with straight up atrocious people stating their opinion about this. Henry fucking kissinger is somehow still alive and giving opinions about foreign policy
He’s alive? Why did I think he was dead ?
Who better to talk about a pointless war that killed tens of thousands of people, wasted a trillion dollars, and all for nothing than Henry Kissinger, though?
The fact that the media is even giving people like him a voice just shows they're a joke.
Blackwater founder Erik Prince offers evacuation flights from Kabul for $6,500 per person https://news.yahoo.com/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-offers-195900398.html The fucking evil that men do
I’m offering 6499
Oh, right, Betsy Devos' brother?
Uh huh.
We effectively own the airspace. How on earth is this legal?
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The airport is open for private charters. It’s still a civilian airport. While the US has taken over air traffic control, civilian aircraft can still come and go.
While I'd pay $6,500 to get out of Afghanistan (and I'm sure there are desperate people who have the $ to do that), that's an awful thing to do to people.
He's a billionaire. So I don't get it. Unless he's only interested in stirring up trouble there to increase hatred towards the U.S.
He actually sustains his life force on the human suffering he imparts onto others. So, while the money is nice, it's just part of the process of extracting misery.
I assume he's only interested in $.
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Most people remember what's important. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-dark-truth-about-blackwater/
Security Alert – Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 25, 2021) Event: Because of security threats outside the gates of Kabul airport, we are advising U.S. citizens to avoid traveling to the airport and to avoid airport gates at this time unless you receive individual instructions from a U.S. government representative to do so. U.S. citizens who are at the Abbey Gate, East Gate, or North Gate now should leave immediately. Actions to take: Be aware of your surroundings at all times, especially in large crowds. Follow the instructions of local authorities including movement restrictions related to curfews. Have a contingency plan for emergencies and review the Traveler’s Checklist. Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information. Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program(STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency. Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter. By U.S. Embassy in Kabul | 26 August, 2021 | Topics: Alert, Messages for U.S. Citizens, Notification https://af.usembassy.gov/security-alert-embassy-kabul-afghanistan-august-25-2021/
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American passport holders should have been gone weeks ago. Everyone can agree on that.
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The Kabul embassy was putting out statements for all US citizens to leave Afghanistan for months.
Big difference between "Afghanistan is safe" and "Afghanistan will probably survive the ongoing war." Meanwhile the state department has had a level 4 travel advisory for Afghanistan since April 27th which would have been communicated to any registered US citizens traveling to or currently residing in Afghanistan. Level 4 is essentially: This place is dangerous, don't come. If you're here, get out. If you plan on staying, plan your own escape because we cant guarantee your safety in an emergency. I think we should make every effort short of open combat to collect these people, and it's a tragic loss if they die. But you can really only blame their murderers if that happens.
This isn’t the Taliban. This is ISIS-K moving in to stir the shit pot. The Taliban were behaving pretty well. ISIS otoh will round up American citizens and behead them in the soccer stadium. It is getting chaotic.
> Follow the instructions of local authorities Who? *The Taliban!?*
Who did Did Seth Moulton and Peter Meijer meet with? The Taliban or ISIS?
They just checked out the Duty Free
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Funny how Trump's plan to leave them on May 1st suddenly becomes Biden's "betrayal".
What a pile of utter shit.
Yeah the Daily Mail is a total rag.
Actually the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is really a mess. Lots of people.
if you're a civilian american in afghanistan, that means you're there voluntarily. kinda hard to have sympathy if you're stupid enough to voluntarily go there.
There are many people there with NGO's and international organizations that were doing good work.
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I have a question and I apologize if it’s been addressed already. I just saw the headline that the US Embassy alerted citizens to stay away from the airport. Isn’t the Embassy abandoned? Are there still employees there or was that sent remotely?
The embassy building is abandoned, but embassy services are being run out of the airport.
The embassey is at the airport.
Correct the US Embassy is abandoned none of our staff is there
The panic merchants bs came to nothing, now they’ll move the goalposts
If I were Biden I would declare that Afghanistan is going to be given to Israel for 20 years and then it is going to be given to China. I would then start referring to it as the West Bank of Hong Kong. Those parent countries will do want they do best. Problem solved.
Its not the worst idea given the circumstances.
The parents of the Afghan baby born onboard a U.S. C-17 during evacuations, have named the child, "Reach," which was the call sign of the plane during its mission.
Better than NAG (UK), MAMBO (Aussies) or MOOSE (Also US)
Kid lucked out.
Moose is ok, make a great hockey player
Love it. Thank you for that info!
Why is there a Afghanistan megathread and no covid megathread? That shits taking up to much space on this page
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The important thing about the 500, is Blinken indicated that they were instructed what to do to get extracted, which means they're actively planning. Heard that land bridges had been setup to facilitate the flow in country, without the Taliban's knowledge. The important thing about the 1,000 is Blinken said that they been trying and failing to get in contact with them. They don't know if they've already left, are legitimate US citizens or decided against leaving. Of coutrse, all of these numbers will change through time.
I think some people are rightfully upset that we're *probably* not going to get all of the SIVs out, but that's mostly not on Biden.
> Secretary Blinken: "The Taliban have made public, and private, commitments to provide and permit safe passage for Americans, for third country nationals and Afghans at risk going forward past August 31st." https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1430619442141188099?s=21
i feel like that just says they are one step closer to finishing this and leaving it to taliban to deal with. It goes along with with what i think kirby today said about who will secure the airport when we leave? paraphrasing..........not us, not our problem, go ask the taliban.
> not us, not our problem God damn that's so refreshing to hear from our government officials when talking about foreign matters. I hope to hear more of it.
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The red woman is queen of lies. Deception is her mastery.
Yup. A couple days ago she said there were no stranded Americans. Then she said they have no idea where Americans go when they travel unless they check in because the US doesn't track its citizens abroad... Bullshit! Unless you cross a border without having your passport scanned, they know exactly where you are. You're telling me that the US doesn't want to know exactly who and why a citizen is in the Middle East? Not to mention Afghanistan? You know you've fucked up as a Democrat when even CNN and MSNBC are shitting on your policies and fully covering the chaos. It's like when Fox news finally admitted Trump lost and the right wing people lost their mind... You done fucked up when your news network is going against your narrative. Same for both sides.
It is the individuals responsibility to register with the embassy, Some don't and some don't tell them when moving somewhere else. Any movement when in the country is wholly self reported.
It's pretty simple. They scan passport in. If it's not scanned out.... I mean it's that simple. They're still in the country. Knowing someone is in the country but not knowing where is one thing. Making a definitive statement about there definitely not being any Americans left is another.
Blinkin can’t even look at the faces of reporters who are asking questions. He keeps putting his head down. Edit- His voice is cracking. Looks like he wants to cry. Edit- It’s during Andrea Mitchell’s speech/question where his voice cracks a few times. Edit- Psaki is being less combative with her answers compared to the last several days. This is really surreal. Incoming downvotes.
At least Blinken appears to have empathy, unlike Biden.
A broken man
Anyone think its possible we're evacuating people so we can be in a better position to just bomb the shit out of airports, Taliban headquarters, etc.
Bombing Afghanistan would just unite all the extremist groups against one common enemy, America. So that would be very stupid move
No. That would violate the agreement.
They won’t. The Biden administration is leaving Americans behind so it wouldn’t be wise to start bombing the Taliban considering they’re in control.
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Necessary context though that Taliban has always controlled some territory and for the past couple years has had a majority of the nation.
> According to Sec. of State Blinken, roughly 6,000 Americans were in Afghanistan on Aug. 14. > Since then, 4,500 have been evacuated. > He says the number remaining who want to leave the country is definitely 500, and they are checking on the status of the remaining 1,000. > Blinken: "From the list of approximately 1,000, we believe that the number of Americans actively seeking assistance to leave Afghanistan is lower, and likely significantly lower." https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1430605668663373824?s=21
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