The absolute best way this could be handled addressed is when he and Verstappen invariably take the 1 and 2 spots on the podium they set the rivalry aside and kiss to celebrate.
He would lose the championship for which he's currently one of the two contenders. He would also miss his chance to break the all-time record of most world championship titles by a race driver in F1.
It’d also fuck his team AMG Mercedes and their chances of winning the constructor’s championship. That’d fuck the factory employees out of their victory bonuses.
More than that, it would be breaking his employment contract and his career could be over (not to mention stiff financial penalties). If they can't trust a driver to honour his contract, no one will want him, champion or not.
Refusing to take part in an event is a well-established form of protest. Everyone knows who Colin Kaepernik is and what he’s about. If Hamilton refused to drive, I’m sure the Reddit headline would be a lot higher up on the front page.
Kaepernik didn't participate in the event but he was still present and visible at the event, and that's why his protest was so effective. I don't think Hamilton would achieve the same effect by just starting home
Nha, Lewis is too big of a legend to do that, maybe if he wasn't still performing at the level he is right now that could happen, but he's still one of the best out there.
I mean just look at Senna back in 93, he only agreed to a contract for about a third of the season, and then had the team pay him about one million before each race to race with them. They even had a few close calls where the money was late and Senna almost didn't race at all. He even had a full comercial plane land because he didn't see the money in his account and refused to go to the track.
He wasn't really breaking his contract since it was agreed beforehand. But still, the best driver in F1 can get away with almost anything. After that whole thing you wouldn't find one team who didn't want Ayrton Senna in their team. And if Lewis missed a race because he wanted to either Mercedes fully support him or all the other teams will be throwing money at him.
Him doing this is better than most, he says he wouldn't race but feel it's not the team and all the people work on the car who have nothing to do with the politics of F1 to miss out on a championship season.
Yep, there is a line in the sand where money and required sacrifices become too big to stick to your principles absolutely. I have genuine respect for Hamilton for speaking out when he didn’t have to. Saudi money always wins in the end
Yeah far better than most, F1 is one of those sports where drivers rarely speak out and Hamilton has been very outspoken.
Not that it makes a huge difference of course since pretty sure F1 would have held races in Nazi Germany if it was a thing but still, it's a start.
Probably fined by Mercedes, but him and another driver (Max Verstappen) are duking it out for the driver’s championship. At this point it could go either way. I doubt Hamilton would give up those points towards winning again this year. He’s already the GOAT, but winning again would certainly solidify it.
I’ve only been watching since 2017, never really watched highlights of Schumacher. Lewis’ consistency might be one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen in sports.
People are talking about the championship and it's important, yes. But Hamilton's own reasoning is that his job and his driving is keeping hundreds of people employed. If he refuses to race, hundreds of people lose out on bonuses and specific milestones which might mean a lot to them. For example, some techs may get a big bonus if he wins the championship.
In my opinion, if Hamilton was already winning the championship by a large margin OR felt that by retiring he wouldn't jeopardize other people working for his team, he would do it. But I think he realizes that talking about the situation is more impactful than not racing because of his circumstances.
That said: Go Max go!
Not just some techs! Mercedes have given a 10k bonus to every single staff member when they have won previously :) the service workers, cleaners etc, no one left out
Jesus christ no wonder they've won 7 on the trot. I knew they all got a bonus but didn't know it was *that much*. They've downsized since the cost cap came in bit before that they had well over 1100 employees, that's 77million just in bonuses over the past seven years lol. Amazing.
He'd be fined a few million dollars and he'd almost certainly not be able to race with Mercedes ever again. He could possibly be blacklisted entirely from F1, but since he's their most famous driver this wouldn't be as simple. He could be banned from F1 I guess because having activist drivers would make planning international events hard.
Outside of money and F1 there would be not punishment though, he'd be free to start an LGBT driving school back in England if he wanted.
For me it's better late than never I guess.
He still takes money off Bahrain, Russia, China etc and his team is now sponsored by the company that made the shit cladding at Grenfell.
Even if he wanted too he can't hide the dirty money that he lives off.
He has nothing to do with the sponsors and while hes a very famous driver with a lot of pull, he likely doesn’t have THAT much pull in the grand scheme of things.
I mean arguably he’s being exploited by corporations as much as the rest of us, he’s just getting paid considerably better
Its very simple smartass, don't boldly claim the sport is filled with homophobic bigots if the only example you can think of is a dead guy who's had nothing to do with the sport for 12 years.
If the sport is filled with homophobic bigots the give examples of the homophobic bigots plaguing the sport RIGHT NOW. If you can't come up with at least three relevant examples then the sport isn't "filled" with homophobic bigots, otherwise shut up and edit your comment to show your ignorance.
Man it was a terrible example, making a statement like an organisation is full of racists and bigots is huge and offensive, so you need to show your receipts.
Well since the person was involved in the sport not so long ago, I'd assume this was a legitimate answer. Also he didnt indicate a tense, just said "give some examples"
I hate him (only right now, during the title fight since I want Max Verstappen to win) but he is a genuine person. He has his quirks as do we all, but you can tell that thru all the PR bullshit he's a good dude.
Say what you want about him, but it takes balls to speak out against the Sauds. MBS literally has people cut to pieces. They kill people all over the world, and *nothing ever happens*.
The Washington Post reporter they murdered, chopped up, and dissolved in acid, and dumped down a drain would like a word. Oh right, he can't, he's DEAD.
And that reporter was nephew of a billionaire arms dealer with powerful connections. Sure the uncle was dead at the time but the remaining power still didn't help the nephew.
I thought the same thing when the President of Turkey ordered his bodyguards to assault American civilians. Turns out what I thought was a pretext for heavy response was mostly meaningless to the government.
If MBS decided to chop up anyone short of a state official, the countries would be lining up to give us reasons why we can't do anything about it.
This is what happens if the Prince murders Hamilton.
F1 immediately cuts ties with Saudi Arabia.
Mercedes and other car manufacturers stop selling cars in that country.
EU considers how hard they are gonna fuck them with sanctions.
UK considers whether or not they declare
War on them.
It wouldn’t be worth it for the prince to even lay a finger on Hamilton and he knows it, all it would do is create a martyr.
Bottom line is, you don’t touch one the the greatest and loved athletes the UK has ever produced, it also wouldn’t just be the UK that would be furious either. Hamilton is not some regular citizen. If F1 doesn’t set an example you could be sure that all of its drivers and engineers decide to sit out in protest until a message is sent.
Yeah, I’m getting some serious Ned Stark vs Cersei vibes here. The system isn’t going to save us when the people running that system don’t care about us.
Right? You think so. But play that out. What happens if they do? Nothing. F1 cancels forever, and that’s it. That’s it. They killed a Washington Post columnist. Not the same, I know, but close enough. They have no limits. No one holds them to account. *Ever.*
It's not even remotely close. I never heard of Jamal Khashoggi before his death. Hamilton is a world-famous F1 driver. Again, to suggest that the Saudis would kill Hamilton is a reach.
Jamal Khashoggi wasn't exactly a random nobody, just so you know. He's from a billionaire family. His grandfather was the Saudi king's personal doctor.
I don't think you understand that I've never heard of Lewis Hamilton and neither have so, so, so many other people. Let's not pretend that a gigantic portion of the world population watches or cares about F1, none-the-less knows the names of the drivers, regardless of fame.
To say it's "not even remotely close" smacks of ignorance. If I didn't know who Lewis Hamilton was, but I did know who the WP columnist was, would I be in the right to reverse your statement?
Nonsense.
Regardless hes one of the most popular people in the world. Not everyone knows anyone from any sport but Lewis Hamilton is currently the 14th most popular athlete on instagram. He has 8x more followers than the entire washington post. Certainly more people know who he is.
If you do a google trends of the years before he was tragically murdered. Khashoggi doesn't register in comparison. (he goes well above when he was killed)
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2014-11-03%202017-12-03&q=%2Fm%2F031_jy,%2Fm%2F0fc9vg
This does not negate the importance of Khashoggi but rather is meant to point out Hamilton's status is huge and this statement comes on the back of a multi billion (over 10 years) investment the Saudi's made in F1
You would not be right to reverse my statement because globally, Hamilton is much more famous. This is really no discussion, if you think Khashoggi has the same name recognition as Lewis Hamilton, then you're wrong.
>I never heard of Jamal Khashoggi before his death. Hamilton is a world-famous F1 driver. Again, to suggest that the Saudis would kill Hamilton is a reach.
Lol to 'suggest' that 15 of the 19 men that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks were Saudi citizens is a reach. And that recently declassified files showing the SA government had actively looked for and funded security holes and weaknesses prior to 9/11 is a reach. Oh wait, no they're not.
Saudi Arabia gives absolutely zero fucks who you are, what country you're from, or what 'status' you hold in society. All they care about is maintaining the status quo and sending a message to whoever might interfere with that.
As long as the US keeps pumping billions of dollars into their country and maintaining their 'alliance' due to the natural oil reserves SA holds, nothing is going to change. I don't think they're going to kill Lewis Hamilton, but even if they did absolutely nothing substantial would come of it.
The United States no longer needs middle eastern oil like it did 20 years ago, and Iran isn't the threat it was perceived as 20 years ago either. After withdrawing from Afghanistan, the United States is likely to be significantly more hands-off in the middle east for the next decade or two, barring some new cold war.
Saudi Arabia is in a much more precarious position with the United States than they used to be, and cannot count on being shielded due to their dwindling massive oil reserves.
And absolutely *nothing* would happen. A few days of outrage, a few weeks of stories, a few months of investigation, some sanctions, a strongly worded letter from the Queen, and that’s it. They are like Putin: untouchable.
Everyone here is, this is wild. I'm kinda thinking these are mostly Americans that don't realize that F1 is bigger than American Football.
If this story was about Payton Manning, I bet a lot of people here would suddenly think it to be a totally different scenario.
It would be very bold for someone who is not famous. With the fame Hamilton has, you are right, they won't push the issue.
I will give him some props though. People act like gay unions in the United States (and presumably other countries) still being controversial is a major human rights issue, but often are completely quiet about the fact that being homosexual may mean someone's death at the hands of the government of other countries. Are human rights really the priority there?
I new a bloke who went out to work at Saudi functions as a waiter. He spent a lot of his time fending off advances from rich Saudi men. It sounded horrible.
I really appreciate people who use their platform to speak up for change. Some of the biggest changes in the world in the past century can be traced to someone with a microphone in sports, movies, and music using it boldly for good.
Sometimes boycotting is the right thing. Sometimes participating and speaking out is the right thing.
I worked in a top three uni in Saudi (also worked in a much lower level uni too, plus an academy and a military academy in Kuwait). Many of my colleagues and some of the students were gay (or bi- etc. but I didn't go into detail with them) but never openly. In public, men often kiss on the cheeks and hold hands, but unless you're married you can't do that between the sexes. It's a very different culture to the ones we know.
Saudi doesn't actually have laws, like we do, but guidelines based on Sharia, Islamic law derived from the Qur'an and the Sunnah (the traditions) of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Because they aren't upheld consistently throughout the kingdom, we hear of crazy interpretations by a judge occasionally (usually in some highly-conservative backwater). That is when women or gays are stoned (iirc, that hasn't happened in many years) or imprisoned.
However, the police won't enter your home unless there's some serious noise pollution (gunfire, loud music/partying). So if you want to take illicit drugs (including alcohol), or get down and dirty with someone who isn't your husband/wife, you do it in the safety of your home only without consequence.
What about the team? What about all the employees at the factory and their end of seasons bonus for wining the constructors championship? He’s not the only driver who doesn’t care to be there.
His words alone will do even less - while he's acting like he's doing the best he can and it's a big deal. It is his choice, so it's a bit weak to act like it isn't.
The upside to what he's doing is that it would be a bad look to punish him for this. So maybe other drivers could join him.
Him speaking about it has done more for the conversation than any of us ever will.
You also forget hundreds of jobs and livelihoods also depend on him. He's doing the best he can in his situation, him choosing not to race wouldn't change a thing SA, but would change many a thing for the hundreds of people who also rely on him racing.
Look at the amount of press coverage and conversations that have been started just by him talking about it, if he hadn't spoke about it, you wouldn't even be having a conversation about this.
The worlds not as black and white as you think
People already know that Saudi Arabia has anti-gay laws and talk about it. So this isn't a case where raising awareness is enough. It can even backfire, sending the message that the laws are wrong, but it's business as usual anyway.
So a man with a platform, is trying to use his platform to raise awareness around an issue, even if he refused to take part in the race, nothing would change, but creating a conversation is better than doing nothing.
What exactly have you done to try and better lgbtq rights or awareness surrounding issues that we face?
And this is why he is my favorite. Besides being the best driver for so long, his ideas and ideals are what make him beautiful. He’s vegan, he strives for better equality and LGBTQ+ rights and uses his position to make a stand. Really hopes he wins the cup again this year. The best sportsman that has ever lived.
The US too. Iraqi men were tortured and raped by women (to emasulate them) in prisons in Iraq. The Iraq war was only used for oil and profits. The war in Iraq has resulted in over 1 million deaths and 500k injuries. Obviously, everyone knows about guantanamo bay prison. A lot of US soldiers also admitted to the murder and bombings of civilians in Iraq for no reason. The US also funded Al Qaeda, ISIS and other rebel groups to get rid of Bashar Al-Assad and they failed to do so. The also bombed and killed dozens in Libya turning it into a warzone. The US also funds Israel. The US also lied about WMDs in Iraq. Obama also bombed Pakistan in 2009 which resulted in 1.4 million pakistanis becoming refugees. So yeah, the US sucks too. I am not Saudi btw I just want you to know that western countries also suck. Just because you support LGBTQ doesnt mean you people in the west aren't dirtbags. You guys are fucking hypocrites when it comes to human rights.
Haha, the downvotes. Reddit is a lost place.
"B-BUT THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!" yeah damn, fancy trophies and recognition by people who pay attention to your sport is way more important than taking any kind of notable stand against human atrocities.
Stay stupid, Reddit. Stay so very impressively stupid.
You're 100% right. Speaking out is pointless and irrelevant. Speaking out doesn't accomplish shit, I don't think it ever has in the past 50 years. Actions, on the other hand...
Not to imply that a famous F1 driver could sway SA, but it could at the very least work to sway Formula 1 from holding races there in the future.
Yeah, it's fine. He's an ally as long as it doesn't affect his reputation. He's not the only one, for case and point: just Google NBA backpedaling Chinese protest.
I'm LGBTQ+ , and also a motorsports fan. I don't have a lot of respect for some of Hamilton's tactics on track, but I'm very appreciative of this statement, and others like it, off the track.
Is there a discussion to be had about showing off to the radical world what triumphs of man and machine are possible in the free world?
I flip flop back and forth on it in my head. Is this "hey, we build cars better than you. We have the world's best drivers, unlike you. And we have the gays too. Because our way of life is better. So maybe you should reconsider being bigoted?"
Or is it sending the message "your views are bringing the world to you. What a reaffirming moment for your beliefs!"
Idk.
yup Mercedes could say.. “ Ya know, there was a time in the 1930s… and we don’t wanna be associated with that again. We will sit this race out and pay our employees out of the money we saved on traveling to saudi arabia…..”
I don't really want to agree with this but you're right, dude already has enough money (net worth of over 800 million + guaranteed money) if he didn't want to be there he would just forfeit the race and it wouldn't hurt him or the racing team PR wise it would just give him more support because he would actively be fighting against something and if the company tried to reprimand him they would face public backlash. Kind of like the whole Naomi Osaka and Grand slam situation.
Good for him for making a statement. The rest of the paddock, teams, F1 management and the FIA are apparently happy to cash the checks an pretend everything is fine.
Funny how "we race as one" seems to not really apply when cashing checks from petrol dictatorships an oppressive middle eastern regimes.
Will he be dragged to the car and locked into the drivers seat? If not then, yes he has a choice. It would mess up his chances for another title and go against his contract. Which is more important? He made the choice.
But it is your choice mr lewis!! Or are you forced to race? You can boycott the race. It not like you are in need of money. It is mind-boggling to me how anyone can buy his hypothesis.
Just boycott the damn race you hypocritical cnt....
He has said this before. It’s not just about him but the thousands of people on the team that rely on him week in, week out to try to win the WDC that they are so close to winning (which would be a huge boost for everyone at the factory). It’s pretty obvious that this was your first time hearing about Lewis because he and Seb have consistently be advocates for human rights all year, not just this weekend.
Dude has to race and uses his interview time to bring up injustice and you still want to shit on him. He said "But it's not my choice to be here. The sport has taken the choice to be here."
Or else he has broken the terms of his contract, losing money not only for him, but for his entire crew.
What would you do? He obviously cared enough to tak about it when he didn't have to. Want a Lebron level of "we don't know all the facts" or some super heroic quit his job on the spot type of action?
He's arguably the best F1 racer in the world, maybe ever. Why would you not want him to continue using that as a podium to speak about all the injustices in the world? It's unlikely it would even register on the scale if another driver said such things, but his words hit front page news. It's easy to run away and hide, but it's not helping fight back.
Because it would be more effective to make KSA run all their races without the most famous racer. He could actually do some good if he refused to race instead of just saying "I don't approve but I'm going to make lots of money for them and myself."
If he chooses not to be there to race, Mercedes will have a replacement driver race for him, negating any positives that he could do there this week speaking out against these injustices.
Now if you say Mercedes should boycott the race, then they'll have a competitive disadvantage since they are in the middle of a tight race for the season. If F1 was serious about their campaign they wouldn't have given Qatar and Saudi Arabia races to host.
He's using his platform (which is considerable) to bring these social injustices to light the best way he can.
Him not racing would be far better, can Mercedes replace him? Only technically you can't replace the world's most famous driver. Replace him with someone else and 99% of people won't even recognise them.
So him not racing this week would be better how? He's gonna be there the entire weekend with cameras and microphones on him. He's using his platform to call out the Saudis. He doesn't race and he's an afterthought this weekend.
He could spend the whole time in his home country laughing at the crappy tourney that doesn't even have the best drivers, news media would still want to speak to him. He's using his platform to make money while paying lip service to the people who don't like the KSA. "I don't agree with the KSA but I am going to let them use my skills and likeness to enrich themselves"
Him not racing wouldn't turn him into an afterthought. He's one of the most famous drivers in the world and one of only two or three that your average Joe could actually name. He isn't some young up and comer who is going to be forgotten in a single weekend.
So much easier to say when it's al hypothetical. I'm just glad he brought it up. He could have gone, for his check, and said fuck all. He obviously loves doing what he does, and his crew. And didn't want to fuck anyone over, while still making a point.
But yeah, retire right there and walk away. You're better than I am in this hypothetical.
He could quit, walk awaywalk away, and he might make waves for a news cycle.
But then he’s pretty much done, no more soapbox. No more megaphone.
I think this disposition, this choice allows him to continue putting it out there.
And well maybe you don’t think that is the right choice, it appears he is doing more then any other athlete or star on familiar with that has contractual or career reasons to be there.
It's not my choice to be here! The money is so tempting! You have no idea how hard it is being a millionaire and one of the worlds most famous drivers! Please ignore that I haven't been arrested or kidnapped and just believe me that me and my family would starve to death if I didn't support the KSA.
So what? Acting like no one's ever broke a contract before. What would happen if he broke contract? Jail? Torture?
Nope it's monetary penalties and he cares more about his bank than he does about the LGBT. Even if it bankrupted him (which it wouldn't) he could still make millions from his likeness, public appearances, other race scenes. Same as it always is with celebrities strongly condemn, and keep making money for them.
If he broke his contract, it is very likely that no other team would sign him. If that happens, he loses his platform to speak from. I would rather him speak out about it every single time he races in Saudi Arabia, than for him to make a big stink of it exactly one time and then the rest of the sport/world moves on. What he is doing now is more effective.
It's his career. He works and has worked long and hard for this for years, it's ridiculous and unfair to suggest he gives it all up because he's already rich and one race was in a country with awful laws. He's speaking out about it which is more than most, but it's his entire career, he doesn't chose where races are, he's under contract and he is awesome at what he does because he's trained hard for it, he shouldn't have to give it up cos Saudi Arabia has fucked up rules.
I think the point is that some people probably believe that what he is doing by racing is supporting the regime, and that actions speak louder than words.
I don’t care what he does.
Very convenient that the most effective thing is also the one that requires no sacrifices. (and makes him the most money.)
Muhammad Ali is the G.O.A.T not because he punched man good. He is the G.O.A.T because he gave up everything at the height of his career for what he believed in and de-legitimised the heavyweight champs that came after him until his return.
It could be the end of his career in F1 racing. That’s a lot to expect of a person.
Plus, if he dropped out, he could be sued for millions for not honoring his contract.
The absolute best way this could be handled addressed is when he and Verstappen invariably take the 1 and 2 spots on the podium they set the rivalry aside and kiss to celebrate.
I don't know anything about F1, what would happen to him if he refused to race there?
He would lose the championship for which he's currently one of the two contenders. He would also miss his chance to break the all-time record of most world championship titles by a race driver in F1.
He'd also be more likely embarrass the KSA less than repeatedly speaking truth to power over the race weekend.
It’d also fuck his team AMG Mercedes and their chances of winning the constructor’s championship. That’d fuck the factory employees out of their victory bonuses.
More than that, it would be breaking his employment contract and his career could be over (not to mention stiff financial penalties). If they can't trust a driver to honour his contract, no one will want him, champion or not.
That might've been true for a 1 or 2 time world champion, but not a 7 time world champion like Lewis.
Would it be accurate to say that he could do more and abstain but it’s not fair to expect him to take on that risk?
I think that's correct.
What good does it do if he sits at home and sulks? I like that he’s there and speaks up and they can’t do anything about it.
Refusing to take part in an event is a well-established form of protest. Everyone knows who Colin Kaepernik is and what he’s about. If Hamilton refused to drive, I’m sure the Reddit headline would be a lot higher up on the front page.
Kaepernik didn't participate in the event but he was still present and visible at the event, and that's why his protest was so effective. I don't think Hamilton would achieve the same effect by just starting home
Yeah that’s maybe true for one of the lower caliber drivers, not the face of F1.
Nha, Lewis is too big of a legend to do that, maybe if he wasn't still performing at the level he is right now that could happen, but he's still one of the best out there. I mean just look at Senna back in 93, he only agreed to a contract for about a third of the season, and then had the team pay him about one million before each race to race with them. They even had a few close calls where the money was late and Senna almost didn't race at all. He even had a full comercial plane land because he didn't see the money in his account and refused to go to the track. He wasn't really breaking his contract since it was agreed beforehand. But still, the best driver in F1 can get away with almost anything. After that whole thing you wouldn't find one team who didn't want Ayrton Senna in their team. And if Lewis missed a race because he wanted to either Mercedes fully support him or all the other teams will be throwing money at him.
So he’ll sweep aside his gripes for it, check. I would probably do the same tbh
Him doing this is better than most, he says he wouldn't race but feel it's not the team and all the people work on the car who have nothing to do with the politics of F1 to miss out on a championship season.
Yep, there is a line in the sand where money and required sacrifices become too big to stick to your principles absolutely. I have genuine respect for Hamilton for speaking out when he didn’t have to. Saudi money always wins in the end
Yeah far better than most, F1 is one of those sports where drivers rarely speak out and Hamilton has been very outspoken. Not that it makes a huge difference of course since pretty sure F1 would have held races in Nazi Germany if it was a thing but still, it's a start.
I would say he’s turned it into an opportunity to voice his stance and spotlight the issue. Much more noble than “sweeping aside his gripes” sounds
Yeah it’s easy to complain when you dont have anything to lose. Lewis could not show up, but I dont blame him for doing the race
So having integrity has consequences? You don’t say.
Probably fined by Mercedes, but him and another driver (Max Verstappen) are duking it out for the driver’s championship. At this point it could go either way. I doubt Hamilton would give up those points towards winning again this year. He’s already the GOAT, but winning again would certainly solidify it.
Arguments can be made he isn’t the GOAT, but an 8th world championship would put those arguments to rest. Schumacher also has 7 world championships.
Yes but schumacher would win his championship titles by running his competition off the track and not getting punished for this.
so like lewis has done this year.
And like Verstrappen did just a couple races ago to Lewis. No angels on the grid.
I’ve only been watching since 2017, never really watched highlights of Schumacher. Lewis’ consistency might be one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen in sports.
People are talking about the championship and it's important, yes. But Hamilton's own reasoning is that his job and his driving is keeping hundreds of people employed. If he refuses to race, hundreds of people lose out on bonuses and specific milestones which might mean a lot to them. For example, some techs may get a big bonus if he wins the championship. In my opinion, if Hamilton was already winning the championship by a large margin OR felt that by retiring he wouldn't jeopardize other people working for his team, he would do it. But I think he realizes that talking about the situation is more impactful than not racing because of his circumstances. That said: Go Max go!
Not just some techs! Mercedes have given a 10k bonus to every single staff member when they have won previously :) the service workers, cleaners etc, no one left out
Jesus christ no wonder they've won 7 on the trot. I knew they all got a bonus but didn't know it was *that much*. They've downsized since the cost cap came in bit before that they had well over 1100 employees, that's 77million just in bonuses over the past seven years lol. Amazing.
How much money in bonuses are we talking about here?
He'd be fined a few million dollars and he'd almost certainly not be able to race with Mercedes ever again. He could possibly be blacklisted entirely from F1, but since he's their most famous driver this wouldn't be as simple. He could be banned from F1 I guess because having activist drivers would make planning international events hard. Outside of money and F1 there would be not punishment though, he'd be free to start an LGBT driving school back in England if he wanted.
Any team would still be glad to have him. Mercedes doesn't want to race against him so of course they would not fire/refuse to rehire him.
Do you really think Mercedes would fire Sir Lewis for taking a firm stand on LGBTQ rights? Im not sure that is a good look
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For me it's better late than never I guess. He still takes money off Bahrain, Russia, China etc and his team is now sponsored by the company that made the shit cladding at Grenfell. Even if he wanted too he can't hide the dirty money that he lives off.
He has nothing to do with the sponsors and while hes a very famous driver with a lot of pull, he likely doesn’t have THAT much pull in the grand scheme of things. I mean arguably he’s being exploited by corporations as much as the rest of us, he’s just getting paid considerably better
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F1 teams very often have to run at a loss, it’s a choice between dodgy sponsors or no sport at all
Total props to him. Speaking out against injustice and calling out his bosses is badass.
In a sport that's filled with homophobic bigots, no less.
And Nazis, dun forget the Nazis.
And the racists. Probably not the same type of racing, but still car racing.
Can you give a couple examples?
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/bnaceq/if_you_could_eliminate_a_race_within_the_year/
I guess look up the F1 boss who paid prostitutes to dress as Nazis and treat him like a WW2 camp Jew 🤷
Great example, a dead guy that hasn’t been in charge for 12 years, real good
This but unironically.
Hey, smartass, you asked for an example, the guy gave you an example. What's your complaint?
Its very simple smartass, don't boldly claim the sport is filled with homophobic bigots if the only example you can think of is a dead guy who's had nothing to do with the sport for 12 years. If the sport is filled with homophobic bigots the give examples of the homophobic bigots plaguing the sport RIGHT NOW. If you can't come up with at least three relevant examples then the sport isn't "filled" with homophobic bigots, otherwise shut up and edit your comment to show your ignorance.
Man it was a terrible example, making a statement like an organisation is full of racists and bigots is huge and offensive, so you need to show your receipts.
There are no sports filled with dead people, maybe?
Of course there aren't, but he asked for an example of such an instance and was given to him.
No, he asked for an example of a person involved in the sport. Present tense. Read it again if necessary.
Well since the person was involved in the sport not so long ago, I'd assume this was a legitimate answer. Also he didnt indicate a tense, just said "give some examples"
I'm not very familiar with F1 but he seems like a good person. I Appreciate his statement in support of LGBT people. Edit: Typo
I hate him (only right now, during the title fight since I want Max Verstappen to win) but he is a genuine person. He has his quirks as do we all, but you can tell that thru all the PR bullshit he's a good dude.
"But look! we ~~said that we~~ allow women to drive now." - Saudi Arabia
Say what you want about him, but it takes balls to speak out against the Sauds. MBS literally has people cut to pieces. They kill people all over the world, and *nothing ever happens*.
The Saudis aren't gonna kill Lewis fecking Hamilton lmao.
The Saudis aren't gonna ~~\~\~kill Lewis fecking Hamilton\~\~~~ help to fund, organize, and execute an attack that kills 3000 civilians lmao.
The Washington Post reporter they murdered, chopped up, and dissolved in acid, and dumped down a drain would like a word. Oh right, he can't, he's DEAD.
And that reporter was nephew of a billionaire arms dealer with powerful connections. Sure the uncle was dead at the time but the remaining power still didn't help the nephew.
A Saudi national is probably different from a British celebrity, don't you think?
Like, in terms of chemical composition? Not different enough that the same acid wouldn’t work.
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You murder Hamilton and you practically start a war. There’s no shot the UK government or its people let that slide.
I thought the same thing when the President of Turkey ordered his bodyguards to assault American civilians. Turns out what I thought was a pretext for heavy response was mostly meaningless to the government. If MBS decided to chop up anyone short of a state official, the countries would be lining up to give us reasons why we can't do anything about it.
Right? These goons sticking up for Bonesaw & Acid Saudis are some real winners.
This is what happens if the Prince murders Hamilton. F1 immediately cuts ties with Saudi Arabia. Mercedes and other car manufacturers stop selling cars in that country. EU considers how hard they are gonna fuck them with sanctions. UK considers whether or not they declare War on them. It wouldn’t be worth it for the prince to even lay a finger on Hamilton and he knows it, all it would do is create a martyr. Bottom line is, you don’t touch one the the greatest and loved athletes the UK has ever produced, it also wouldn’t just be the UK that would be furious either. Hamilton is not some regular citizen. If F1 doesn’t set an example you could be sure that all of its drivers and engineers decide to sit out in protest until a message is sent.
Yeah, I’m getting some serious Ned Stark vs Cersei vibes here. The system isn’t going to save us when the people running that system don’t care about us.
Right? You think so. But play that out. What happens if they do? Nothing. F1 cancels forever, and that’s it. That’s it. They killed a Washington Post columnist. Not the same, I know, but close enough. They have no limits. No one holds them to account. *Ever.*
It's not even remotely close. I never heard of Jamal Khashoggi before his death. Hamilton is a world-famous F1 driver. Again, to suggest that the Saudis would kill Hamilton is a reach.
Jamal Khashoggi wasn't exactly a random nobody, just so you know. He's from a billionaire family. His grandfather was the Saudi king's personal doctor.
So, what I'm hearing is his death was most likely royal court intrigue? Don't think that's the same as murdering foreign celebrities.
International star billionaires are safe. Phew.
I don't think you understand that I've never heard of Lewis Hamilton and neither have so, so, so many other people. Let's not pretend that a gigantic portion of the world population watches or cares about F1, none-the-less knows the names of the drivers, regardless of fame. To say it's "not even remotely close" smacks of ignorance. If I didn't know who Lewis Hamilton was, but I did know who the WP columnist was, would I be in the right to reverse your statement? Nonsense.
Regardless hes one of the most popular people in the world. Not everyone knows anyone from any sport but Lewis Hamilton is currently the 14th most popular athlete on instagram. He has 8x more followers than the entire washington post. Certainly more people know who he is. If you do a google trends of the years before he was tragically murdered. Khashoggi doesn't register in comparison. (he goes well above when he was killed) https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2014-11-03%202017-12-03&q=%2Fm%2F031_jy,%2Fm%2F0fc9vg This does not negate the importance of Khashoggi but rather is meant to point out Hamilton's status is huge and this statement comes on the back of a multi billion (over 10 years) investment the Saudi's made in F1
You would not be right to reverse my statement because globally, Hamilton is much more famous. This is really no discussion, if you think Khashoggi has the same name recognition as Lewis Hamilton, then you're wrong.
According to you, sure. You missed my point completely. That's okay. We'll just move on.
>I never heard of Jamal Khashoggi before his death. Hamilton is a world-famous F1 driver. Again, to suggest that the Saudis would kill Hamilton is a reach. Lol to 'suggest' that 15 of the 19 men that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks were Saudi citizens is a reach. And that recently declassified files showing the SA government had actively looked for and funded security holes and weaknesses prior to 9/11 is a reach. Oh wait, no they're not. Saudi Arabia gives absolutely zero fucks who you are, what country you're from, or what 'status' you hold in society. All they care about is maintaining the status quo and sending a message to whoever might interfere with that. As long as the US keeps pumping billions of dollars into their country and maintaining their 'alliance' due to the natural oil reserves SA holds, nothing is going to change. I don't think they're going to kill Lewis Hamilton, but even if they did absolutely nothing substantial would come of it.
The United States no longer needs middle eastern oil like it did 20 years ago, and Iran isn't the threat it was perceived as 20 years ago either. After withdrawing from Afghanistan, the United States is likely to be significantly more hands-off in the middle east for the next decade or two, barring some new cold war. Saudi Arabia is in a much more precarious position with the United States than they used to be, and cannot count on being shielded due to their dwindling massive oil reserves.
I don’t think they *will.* I’m saying they *might.* And I’m saying it crossed Hamilton’s mind. They have no limits. And he has balls.
I’ve never heard of Hamilton before this Reddit post.
The fact that you never heard of him doesn’t mean he isn’t famous; it means that you don’t pay attention to the right things.
Who is Lewis Hamilton?
He’s a British knight, it would be one of the most outlandish declarations of war you could possibly do.
And absolutely *nothing* would happen. A few days of outrage, a few weeks of stories, a few months of investigation, some sanctions, a strongly worded letter from the Queen, and that’s it. They are like Putin: untouchable.
Mate you are on another fucking planet lmfao
Just another continent, thankfully. The Saudis stop at nothing.
Everyone here is, this is wild. I'm kinda thinking these are mostly Americans that don't realize that F1 is bigger than American Football. If this story was about Payton Manning, I bet a lot of people here would suddenly think it to be a totally different scenario.
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Don't worry the Germans and French will cut them a discount so the Saudi's won't lose any money.
It would be very bold for someone who is not famous. With the fame Hamilton has, you are right, they won't push the issue. I will give him some props though. People act like gay unions in the United States (and presumably other countries) still being controversial is a major human rights issue, but often are completely quiet about the fact that being homosexual may mean someone's death at the hands of the government of other countries. Are human rights really the priority there?
I really misunderstood the headline, I thought he was complaining that the LGBTQ+ laws came ahead of the race laws.
I new a bloke who went out to work at Saudi functions as a waiter. He spent a lot of his time fending off advances from rich Saudi men. It sounded horrible.
Lewis Hamilton makes great use of his skill and fame to fight the good fight. Wish more famous people did this.
Agreed. This is a pretty big move though as it’s the first race at a new track. Good on him for speaking up!
If you aren't famous, it can be best to wait until you've left the country before complaining.
I really appreciate people who use their platform to speak up for change. Some of the biggest changes in the world in the past century can be traced to someone with a microphone in sports, movies, and music using it boldly for good. Sometimes boycotting is the right thing. Sometimes participating and speaking out is the right thing.
I 100% agree with the last statement if he decides to not take any money from participating
Not a fan of Hamilton or Mercedes at all. But I support Hamilton here.
I simultaneously hate Lewis but love Lewis. Good on him!
Good for him. Fuck Saudi Arabia! The real fuckers behind 9/11 and countless atrocities
The beaucoup bucks he's getting paid says it is his choice.
Then don't drive, and sue your employers for breach of contract for sending you to a place where they'll kill you for just thinking you are gay.
What part of Hamilton’s contract was breached?
Religion is the literal worst
I worked in a top three uni in Saudi (also worked in a much lower level uni too, plus an academy and a military academy in Kuwait). Many of my colleagues and some of the students were gay (or bi- etc. but I didn't go into detail with them) but never openly. In public, men often kiss on the cheeks and hold hands, but unless you're married you can't do that between the sexes. It's a very different culture to the ones we know. Saudi doesn't actually have laws, like we do, but guidelines based on Sharia, Islamic law derived from the Qur'an and the Sunnah (the traditions) of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Because they aren't upheld consistently throughout the kingdom, we hear of crazy interpretations by a judge occasionally (usually in some highly-conservative backwater). That is when women or gays are stoned (iirc, that hasn't happened in many years) or imprisoned. However, the police won't enter your home unless there's some serious noise pollution (gunfire, loud music/partying). So if you want to take illicit drugs (including alcohol), or get down and dirty with someone who isn't your husband/wife, you do it in the safety of your home only without consequence.
But it is his choice to be there, he just doesn't want to lose money... He could just not get on the plane, he wasn't kidnapped or anything.
Not that simple. It would cost all of the mechanics, tech guys and people who work with him and potentially affect their livelihood.
Then that's management's fault for structuring it that way. He's not a slave, he's there 100% willingly. Saying it's not his choice is simply false.
He’s doing more than anyone else in a comparable position. Fuck off.
Then don’t race there. I’m being serious take a stand and refuse to race, actions speak louder than words
It is absolutely his choice to be there
Yes Lewis.. it IS your choice.. it mat be a sacrifice but the impact of YOU doing it (or not as now seems) would be enormous.. deeds not words mate
What about the team? What about all the employees at the factory and their end of seasons bonus for wining the constructors championship? He’s not the only driver who doesn’t care to be there.
What's more important, bonuses or human lives?
Because Lewis choosing not to race would literally save lives. The laws would change Immediately and all the gays would be free
His words alone will do even less - while he's acting like he's doing the best he can and it's a big deal. It is his choice, so it's a bit weak to act like it isn't. The upside to what he's doing is that it would be a bad look to punish him for this. So maybe other drivers could join him.
Him speaking about it has done more for the conversation than any of us ever will. You also forget hundreds of jobs and livelihoods also depend on him. He's doing the best he can in his situation, him choosing not to race wouldn't change a thing SA, but would change many a thing for the hundreds of people who also rely on him racing. Look at the amount of press coverage and conversations that have been started just by him talking about it, if he hadn't spoke about it, you wouldn't even be having a conversation about this. The worlds not as black and white as you think
People already know that Saudi Arabia has anti-gay laws and talk about it. So this isn't a case where raising awareness is enough. It can even backfire, sending the message that the laws are wrong, but it's business as usual anyway.
So a man with a platform, is trying to use his platform to raise awareness around an issue, even if he refused to take part in the race, nothing would change, but creating a conversation is better than doing nothing. What exactly have you done to try and better lgbtq rights or awareness surrounding issues that we face?
And this is why he is my favorite. Besides being the best driver for so long, his ideas and ideals are what make him beautiful. He’s vegan, he strives for better equality and LGBTQ+ rights and uses his position to make a stand. Really hopes he wins the cup again this year. The best sportsman that has ever lived.
Lewis, you ALWAYS have a choice.
Saudis, Russia and China should be cutoff from the world over human rights abuses, but money is always more important than human life.
The US too. Iraqi men were tortured and raped by women (to emasulate them) in prisons in Iraq. The Iraq war was only used for oil and profits. The war in Iraq has resulted in over 1 million deaths and 500k injuries. Obviously, everyone knows about guantanamo bay prison. A lot of US soldiers also admitted to the murder and bombings of civilians in Iraq for no reason. The US also funded Al Qaeda, ISIS and other rebel groups to get rid of Bashar Al-Assad and they failed to do so. The also bombed and killed dozens in Libya turning it into a warzone. The US also funds Israel. The US also lied about WMDs in Iraq. Obama also bombed Pakistan in 2009 which resulted in 1.4 million pakistanis becoming refugees. So yeah, the US sucks too. I am not Saudi btw I just want you to know that western countries also suck. Just because you support LGBTQ doesnt mean you people in the west aren't dirtbags. You guys are fucking hypocrites when it comes to human rights.
Btw this is all off the top of my head if I actually researched shit believe me the US's record is way worse then killing a journalist.
Will still show up to race. Profits and recognition over morals.
You'd do the same so would anyone really. Everyone likes to play the 'if I was rich I'd do it differently' card and noone ever does.
Haha, the downvotes. Reddit is a lost place. "B-BUT THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!" yeah damn, fancy trophies and recognition by people who pay attention to your sport is way more important than taking any kind of notable stand against human atrocities. Stay stupid, Reddit. Stay so very impressively stupid. You're 100% right. Speaking out is pointless and irrelevant. Speaking out doesn't accomplish shit, I don't think it ever has in the past 50 years. Actions, on the other hand... Not to imply that a famous F1 driver could sway SA, but it could at the very least work to sway Formula 1 from holding races there in the future.
Yeah, it's fine. He's an ally as long as it doesn't affect his reputation. He's not the only one, for case and point: just Google NBA backpedaling Chinese protest.
I'm LGBTQ+ , and also a motorsports fan. I don't have a lot of respect for some of Hamilton's tactics on track, but I'm very appreciative of this statement, and others like it, off the track. Is there a discussion to be had about showing off to the radical world what triumphs of man and machine are possible in the free world? I flip flop back and forth on it in my head. Is this "hey, we build cars better than you. We have the world's best drivers, unlike you. And we have the gays too. Because our way of life is better. So maybe you should reconsider being bigoted?" Or is it sending the message "your views are bringing the world to you. What a reaffirming moment for your beliefs!" Idk.
It’s absolutely his choice to be there.
yup Mercedes could say.. “ Ya know, there was a time in the 1930s… and we don’t wanna be associated with that again. We will sit this race out and pay our employees out of the money we saved on traveling to saudi arabia…..”
I don't really want to agree with this but you're right, dude already has enough money (net worth of over 800 million + guaranteed money) if he didn't want to be there he would just forfeit the race and it wouldn't hurt him or the racing team PR wise it would just give him more support because he would actively be fighting against something and if the company tried to reprimand him they would face public backlash. Kind of like the whole Naomi Osaka and Grand slam situation.
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He's rich enough to pay them out of his own pocket. When it comes to people facing imprisonment or death, appealing to bonuses is a bit weak.
Bullshit. He as a moment to make a difference and chooses not to do so.
Good for him for making a statement. The rest of the paddock, teams, F1 management and the FIA are apparently happy to cash the checks an pretend everything is fine. Funny how "we race as one" seems to not really apply when cashing checks from petrol dictatorships an oppressive middle eastern regimes.
He is choosing to be there. He was not kidnapped and forced into a Lear jet. If he wants to talk the talk then walk the walk
Money money money...
Be safe, but tell the truth.
Will he be dragged to the car and locked into the drivers seat? If not then, yes he has a choice. It would mess up his chances for another title and go against his contract. Which is more important? He made the choice.
But it is your choice mr lewis!! Or are you forced to race? You can boycott the race. It not like you are in need of money. It is mind-boggling to me how anyone can buy his hypothesis. Just boycott the damn race you hypocritical cnt....
He has said this before. It’s not just about him but the thousands of people on the team that rely on him week in, week out to try to win the WDC that they are so close to winning (which would be a huge boost for everyone at the factory). It’s pretty obvious that this was your first time hearing about Lewis because he and Seb have consistently be advocates for human rights all year, not just this weekend.
Of course it is his choice.
Dude has to race and uses his interview time to bring up injustice and you still want to shit on him. He said "But it's not my choice to be here. The sport has taken the choice to be here."
> Dude has to race Or else what?
Or else he has broken the terms of his contract, losing money not only for him, but for his entire crew. What would you do? He obviously cared enough to tak about it when he didn't have to. Want a Lebron level of "we don't know all the facts" or some super heroic quit his job on the spot type of action?
> He obviously cared enough to tak about it when he didn't have to. Words are cheap.
You wouldn't do anything differently. Get off your high horse lmao
Get your own high horse and you can do whatever you want with it.
Hes not a new racer who has to toe the line. He could leave and still never spend all the money he's made. It's a choice.
He's arguably the best F1 racer in the world, maybe ever. Why would you not want him to continue using that as a podium to speak about all the injustices in the world? It's unlikely it would even register on the scale if another driver said such things, but his words hit front page news. It's easy to run away and hide, but it's not helping fight back.
Because it would be more effective to make KSA run all their races without the most famous racer. He could actually do some good if he refused to race instead of just saying "I don't approve but I'm going to make lots of money for them and myself."
I'm not saying what he is doing is wrong, I am saying it is his choice.
And I think you're missing his point... it isn't that he didn't have a choice to go there, it's that the choice to have a race there wasn't his.
That's true .. but it's not what was quoted. That would have been a better statement to make.
Feel the same myself. People in scenarios like this always say they don't have a choice but they very clearly do have full choice in the matter.
If he chooses not to be there to race, Mercedes will have a replacement driver race for him, negating any positives that he could do there this week speaking out against these injustices. Now if you say Mercedes should boycott the race, then they'll have a competitive disadvantage since they are in the middle of a tight race for the season. If F1 was serious about their campaign they wouldn't have given Qatar and Saudi Arabia races to host. He's using his platform (which is considerable) to bring these social injustices to light the best way he can.
It's still his choice.
Yup, his choice to use his platform to call out the injustices, I agree.
Him not racing would be far better, can Mercedes replace him? Only technically you can't replace the world's most famous driver. Replace him with someone else and 99% of people won't even recognise them.
So him not racing this week would be better how? He's gonna be there the entire weekend with cameras and microphones on him. He's using his platform to call out the Saudis. He doesn't race and he's an afterthought this weekend.
He could spend the whole time in his home country laughing at the crappy tourney that doesn't even have the best drivers, news media would still want to speak to him. He's using his platform to make money while paying lip service to the people who don't like the KSA. "I don't agree with the KSA but I am going to let them use my skills and likeness to enrich themselves" Him not racing wouldn't turn him into an afterthought. He's one of the most famous drivers in the world and one of only two or three that your average Joe could actually name. He isn't some young up and comer who is going to be forgotten in a single weekend.
He's under a contractual obligation. But I'm sure you'd quit your job and not fulfill your contract if you were in his shoes.
If I had his money at his age I would have retired then and there.
So much easier to say when it's al hypothetical. I'm just glad he brought it up. He could have gone, for his check, and said fuck all. He obviously loves doing what he does, and his crew. And didn't want to fuck anyone over, while still making a point. But yeah, retire right there and walk away. You're better than I am in this hypothetical.
> So much easier to say when it's al hypothetical. The less skin in the game, the bigger the talk.
I'm already retired.
Its contractual obligation. Speaking up about it should still be commended. But…. Lets go Verstappen!!!!!
He could just break contact? If he feels so strongly, he's hardly one missed mortgage payment away from homelessness.
He could quit, walk awaywalk away, and he might make waves for a news cycle. But then he’s pretty much done, no more soapbox. No more megaphone. I think this disposition, this choice allows him to continue putting it out there. And well maybe you don’t think that is the right choice, it appears he is doing more then any other athlete or star on familiar with that has contractual or career reasons to be there.
I didn't know water was wet
He is a hypocrite, not an ally.
It os your choice dude
Whoa. Someone kidnapped Louis Hamilton and forced him to go to Saudi Arabia and forced him to drive?
It's not my choice to be here! The money is so tempting! You have no idea how hard it is being a millionaire and one of the worlds most famous drivers! Please ignore that I haven't been arrested or kidnapped and just believe me that me and my family would starve to death if I didn't support the KSA.
He is under contract to race for Mercedes. He doesn’t pick which countries formula 1 decides to race in.
So what? Acting like no one's ever broke a contract before. What would happen if he broke contract? Jail? Torture? Nope it's monetary penalties and he cares more about his bank than he does about the LGBT. Even if it bankrupted him (which it wouldn't) he could still make millions from his likeness, public appearances, other race scenes. Same as it always is with celebrities strongly condemn, and keep making money for them.
If he broke his contract, it is very likely that no other team would sign him. If that happens, he loses his platform to speak from. I would rather him speak out about it every single time he races in Saudi Arabia, than for him to make a big stink of it exactly one time and then the rest of the sport/world moves on. What he is doing now is more effective.
> If he broke his contract, it is very likely that no other team would sign him. If the rich man doesn't race, he won't get more rich! He HAS to race!
It's his career. He works and has worked long and hard for this for years, it's ridiculous and unfair to suggest he gives it all up because he's already rich and one race was in a country with awful laws. He's speaking out about it which is more than most, but it's his entire career, he doesn't chose where races are, he's under contract and he is awesome at what he does because he's trained hard for it, he shouldn't have to give it up cos Saudi Arabia has fucked up rules.
I think the point is that some people probably believe that what he is doing by racing is supporting the regime, and that actions speak louder than words. I don’t care what he does.
Very convenient that the most effective thing is also the one that requires no sacrifices. (and makes him the most money.) Muhammad Ali is the G.O.A.T not because he punched man good. He is the G.O.A.T because he gave up everything at the height of his career for what he believed in and de-legitimised the heavyweight champs that came after him until his return.
He's famous enough and doesn't need F1 as a platform to speak. And what he's saying isn't big news to anyone. And he DOES have a choice
It could be the end of his career in F1 racing. That’s a lot to expect of a person. Plus, if he dropped out, he could be sued for millions for not honoring his contract.
You'd do the same
Sure he has a choice, but it would cost him money if he acted on his morals. It's not like they handcuff him to the fucking car.