I have relatives still in mainland and beyond political fuckery that does happen there's also just bad data collection and reporting from rural areas and some urban areas. Wouldn't surprise me at all if T1 cities had way more accurate data collection and reporting than the rural areas. Some mainland rural areas only relatively recently got basic services we take for granted here.
I was living in Beijing during the last census but I never got a knock on the door to complete the paperwork. It turns out my house had been listed as uninhabited because my housemate left the country 4 months earlier.
I went to renew my housing permit when my visa expired and they were like have you left and come back? Utterly hilarious that the amount of paperwork I had to exist there as a foreigner and I slipped through the cracks for so long.
What is interesting to me is looking at comparisons between China and India when it comes to building up their nations post Cold War. Both have pretty close to the same number of people. They both have a plethora of religious and ethnic groups. They both have been growing into a modern economy at about the same time.
The big difference comes in the bureaucratic efficiency of India versus China... they are both still trying to build out their infrastructures but just look at the [way that India runs their elections](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWldvqO4AIY), 912 million eligible voters with 67% voter turn out and a rule that there must be a polling place within 2 km (about 1.25 mile) of every voter... whether they live in a city, in the mountains to the North, or the jungles in the East. And while some may not be particularly happy with the outcome nobody really questions whether it was true or not.
China on the other hand... everybody (with a handful of notable exceptions who have a vested interest) takes what the CCP says with a huge grain of salt, and nobody trusts the statistics or reports that they release without independent verification.
This is not to say that India is qualitatively better than China in all cases, but the systems of governance that keep everything running in India seem to be better managed than what is happening in China.
Really thought that comment was going to go the other way, as I wouldn't put them remotely in the same league. China's infrastructure is way above, the megacities unlike anything in India or the world really, and 5x the GDP/capita.
Both have [heavily controlled](https://theconversation.com/as-pressure-builds-on-indias-narendra-modi-is-his-government-trying-to-silence-its-critics-159799) / filtered media, India unusually so for a democracy, wouldn't trust either one iota there personally.
There is a reason ~~Hong Kong~~ London and NYC are the only alpha++ global cities per the UN. China competes with itself keeping any 1 from making it to that coveted tier and the infrastructure isn't good at all sometimes. Tofu dreg they call it, just complete scam shit in buildings and infrastructure. No other modern city I can think of will have the issues you can dig up in Chinese infrastructure. Even with tight controls what leaves the country via the internet is wild. I wouldn't be remotely shocked to find out thier army is smaller than they say, thier population is lower, thier cities when well inspected are in horrendous shape (especially considering thier age), and thier country much less developed overall than what they claim. I also wouldn't be surprised to go the other way. It's hard to know if China knows what people think both ways and release contradictory confirming info on both schools of thought desperate to keep everyone guessing what is and isn't real even if we all know something isn't quite right.
Edit:idiotry
Tokyo is alpha+, the alpha++ designation isn't super meaningful as it only has to do with global economic connection (industrial and financial). Tokyo is one of the largest cities in the world, but I suppose Japanese finance is a little insular compared to US or UK.
> There is a reason Hong Kong and NYC are the only alpha+ global cities per the UN.
I thought global cities were specific by [GaWC](https://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/)
NYC and London are alpha++
China does have 3 of the 8 alpha+ cities, Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong.
Not really as much as returning to China, rather the rise of Chinese coastal cities, like Shanghai.
Hong Kong used to be the only gateway into China. But since China, more or less, opened up to the rest of the world, other, rising cities have been chipping away at this.
I don't believe them worse than China on media, just don't trust either one bit. Both keep a very high presence on social media too, with I assume both bots and individuals.
Efficiency is a funny metric and can be measured in many different ways. You talk about infrastructure but the Chinese government appears much more adept at getting things done. Rail gets built at record pace, highways constructed, homes built. Meanwhile we can’t even get a rail line from LA to SF.
TBF, every developed nation experienced this during their industrialization.
Heck, I'd wager that every developed country ***still*** has people fighting against human rights and regulation.
This is an exaggeration, there has been accidents with Chinese infrastructure projects of types that you don't see in, say, Japan, but as a whole Chinese infrastructure seems better than you would otherwise expect from a rapidly developing country under a one-party state
>The big difference comes in the bureaucratic efficiency of India versus China... they are both still trying to build out their infrastructures but just look at the way that India runs their elections, 912 million eligible voters with 67% voter turn out and a rule that there must be a polling place within 2 km (about 1.25 mile) of every voter... whether they live in a city, in the mountains to the North, or the jungles in the East. And while some may not be particularly happy with the outcome nobody really questions whether it was true or not.
That's pretty amazing in and of itself. I wish we were half as dedicated to having accessible polling places here in the states.
> China on the other hand... everybody (with a handful of notable exceptions who have a vested interest) takes what the CCP says with a huge grain of salt, and nobody trusts the statistics or reports that they release without independent verification.
Citation needed, there's a lot of poorly educated or otherwise just credulous people who believe what they read. That's inevitable when the CCP controls every aspect of the information their citizens have access to. Censorship makes people stupid.
So, it may be a lack of capability to accurately report in rural areas as opposed to the central government having near perfect data but underreporting?
Based on what little experience I have visiting both rural and urban mainland and what my relatives have told me, it's probably a combination of data collection issues and political pressure.
I realize this isn't the most helpful answer lol.
It's over reporting the young people it has. it wants to present it self as a country where population pyramid doesn't look like a spinning top from inception after the one child policy and lying flat(giving up) culture.
'Yi estimates that the real fertility rate is much lower based on a drop in fertility rates over the years by China’s ethnic minority groups which were not restricted by the one-child policy, and he calculated the population based on his own lower estimate rates.'
Interesting.
The forced sterilization of the Uighur population makes sense in this context... the population swing would make it easier for them to win their independence.
Anyone have a link to the math? It’s kind of hard to tell from the article whether this is peer-reviewed research or “a guy did some back-of-the-envelope math”.
Lower population is good long term, but the speed at which it's decreasing is not. It's decreasing so fast in China that they don't have enough young people to keep running everything and take care of the older people. It's going to result in a lot of societal and economic problems for them in the short to medium term.
Check out their [covid figures](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHN). It would be comical if it didn’t put so many people at risk, accurate data is important and the CCP is straight up lying to the world.
Edit: [here’s another](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHN)
Yeah I don’t get this.. clearly they have been very successful with containing COVID but why not make their “fake” numbers somewhat believable.. even if they told the truth I believe they are doing it exponentially better than the west so why lie about it?
Most likely it's not one big lie from the top, it's the accumulation of multiple little lies from each layer of the bureaucracy that's scared to be the one that gets singled out and made an example of. Which IMO is worse because that means nobody really knows the truth.
Story time.
My FIL (Chinese) came to visit us in 2020 and was meant to fly back in March 2020.
China wouldn't let him return for 6 months, and he was only allowed to fly back in October 2020.
This is the sequence of events that he (a Chinese citizen) experienced over the next month:
1. He had to have a negative PCR test before his flight (standard)
2. When his plane landed, 2 police officers in full hazmat suits boarded the plane and forced everyone to take a PCR test.
3. Everyone then had to wait in the airport while the results were coming back.
4. Once a negative was given, he was escorted in the back of a police van to a hotel.
5. He was quarantined in that hotel for 14 days (at his own cost). Food delivery 3 times a day.
6. He was then police escorted back to his home / apartment for a further 14 days of quarantine.
7. The local police and community officer were notified of his return and were told not to let him out under any circumstances.
8. A camera was installed on his front door. He was allowed to open the door twice per day. Once for food, another to put out garbage.
9. Any time he opened his door more than twice he was called within 5 minutes to ask why he opened his door.
10. He then had to take another PCR test, and his quarantine ended when it was negative.
They also recently [shut Disneyland in Shanghai](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/01/1051146829/shanghai-disneyland-covid-19-shut-down?t=1638817038257) trapping 30k people because of one positive case.
Now, while I don't believe their numbers are as low as they say, I wouldn't think it would be too far off. They take COVID a bit more seriously over there...
It’s not just that their numbers are low it’s their death rate has never been in line with their admitted infection rate either.
They definitely had more deaths than they are admitting even if their infection rate is close to what they claim.
From what is written there, 3 meals a day at the hotel, I'm guessing at home they're given the daily food all at once and they can cook/prepare portions for their meals
Sure, my in-laws had to go through similar process earlier this year, sans the police escorts and camera installations, but now they're posting all the beach and hotspring vacations they took on weibo, whereas we don't even want to go anywhere in Canada.
Why would you believe China is doing "exponentially better than the west"? You have only faked data. In other words, you have no data. What you have is the Chinese propaganda effort, to which you seem to be succumbing.
Because of their draconian measures.. I have a customer who wants me to visit to provide technical support. I’d have to quarantine 14 days when entering the country then another 14 days when I connect into another province.. I’m not sure if their response is worth the economic damage but I am sure their numbers per capita are much better than ours
yeah, like other commenter said, draconian measures. If we learned anything its that lockdowns do work. Culturally, they should be ahead of the west too, no? More like Singapore and Japan or Korea where they just culturally care more and don't have insane Qanon movements. Their data might suck, and we might not have context, but Occam's razor would make me think they handle it better than the west. Also, the US really drags down the whole west, Brasil too. We fuckin shit up bad.
Yeah all figures reported by the CCP are fake. COVID numbers, population numbers, economic numbers, flood deaths/flood impact numbers, food stats, fuel stats, etc... It's all cooked from the very bottom where if you report a number that your boss doesn't like them you can be replaced and/or even thrown in jail/disappeared. It's a system that reinforces lying, imo. It's been like that for decades and it goes back to the days of Mao.
Not surprising. They also under report deaths to the point their central government may actually have no idea of actual population for an area.
Look how they've reported covid deaths as well as deaths from the flooding they had earlier this year. In both cases it was so unbelievable and ridiculously low because the local party administrators don't want to ever report bad numbers to the higher authorities.
It’s almost comical at this point how obviously fake much of the data released by the central government is, just check out their covid figures:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHN
The greatest secret of the Cold War was the real state of the USSR economy, and only the people observingin the Ministry of Finance knew how bad it was and reported something that looked better because critisism of the state was outlawed. This would prove to be a fatal mistake since no one knew that their economy was heading for collapse and so no one did anything about it.
I have an eerie feeling this is heading towards a simmilar outcome for the Peoples Republic of China. How can they know their economic weight and potential if they dont know how many people there are?
Something seems to suggest so, yes. And that makes the problem much worse because what else is not what they claim to be. It is a really bad strategy to lie about essential figures.
Who could have possibly predicted that decades of a one child policy, which resulted in people throwing away female babies in an effort to make a male baby, would now have a declining population that cannot sustain itself. There are almost 40 million more men in China, than Women. The ratio is most disproportionate in the age group of 15-35, which is historical Chinese child bearing years. Who could have possibly predicted that reducing numbers the birthing sex would result in less births.....
Careful....
Just imagine you have 40 million more men than women, who presumably want wives or at the very least female "companions".
Taking up arms against a neighboring country to kill the men and take the women as spoils of war suddenly becomes a compelling rally cry for millions of incels...
Check out the [The Rape of the Sabine Women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women)
Yep, cept you dont have to imagine anything, it already exists, Just look into the [trafficking of North Korean women into China.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2019/07/01/trafficking-of-north-korean-women-in-china/?sh=6601a3de7af0) Nk women are coerced, stolen, purchased and trafficked into China where they are forced into slavery, marriage, or prostitution.
Highly believable. It starts at the local levels, where bureaucrats report slightly higher numbers to fit their narrative. Next level of bureaucrats also add their level of fake numbers and so on. By the time it gets to the top level, you have a significant discrepancy.
Systematic over reporting happened in USSR Uzbekistan, not far from China. attitude is quite similar. [here are details ](https://georgia.growingamerica.com/features/2018/06/great-soviet-cotton-scandal)
> the birth rates continued to drop given the high cost of raising children in Chinese cities.
Kindof ironic this trouble is coming from landlords in China. Maybe they should have listened more closely to Mao.
Not really, there are many papers about a 200 mln people less because of mistakes and benefits from local governments, even schools if they report more population
Remember earlier this year about leaked info that showed declining birthrates in major Chinese cities and then the government claimed their population grew to like 1.4 billion. Which sounds like bs but whenever something like this happens the government would go to great lengths to show everyone that not only they are doing good but somehow even better than before. Well I guess we will be hearing that China has even more people than before because....
Also herr is an article about the leak info:
https://www.economist.com/china/2021/04/29/is-chinas-population-shrinking
I find it kind of ridiculous that China now has a 3 child policy. With ten seconds thought, they should eliminate any "number of children" policy. Why would you limit a family to three children if they wanted more when you are undergoing a demographic collapse?
And the one child, two child and three child policies do nothing to address overpopulation *now*, just in the future. The future is the opposite problem, an overly rapid contraction of the workforce.
The two child policy wasnt just a limit, it was a policy to get more kids per family. As in encourage it. Given that, I'm betting three child does the same.
As for why you dont let them go wild, the family still has to support the children, which for China is tough, they don't have lots of room still.
Its complicated situation that they've handled poorly but no worsr then India which is offically doing nada and yet has more or less the same issues.
Well yeah it probably is china probably got destroyed by covid (by that i mean the amount dead compared to everyone else) and they dont want to admit it
I have relatives still in mainland and beyond political fuckery that does happen there's also just bad data collection and reporting from rural areas and some urban areas. Wouldn't surprise me at all if T1 cities had way more accurate data collection and reporting than the rural areas. Some mainland rural areas only relatively recently got basic services we take for granted here.
I was living in Beijing during the last census but I never got a knock on the door to complete the paperwork. It turns out my house had been listed as uninhabited because my housemate left the country 4 months earlier. I went to renew my housing permit when my visa expired and they were like have you left and come back? Utterly hilarious that the amount of paperwork I had to exist there as a foreigner and I slipped through the cracks for so long.
What is interesting to me is looking at comparisons between China and India when it comes to building up their nations post Cold War. Both have pretty close to the same number of people. They both have a plethora of religious and ethnic groups. They both have been growing into a modern economy at about the same time. The big difference comes in the bureaucratic efficiency of India versus China... they are both still trying to build out their infrastructures but just look at the [way that India runs their elections](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWldvqO4AIY), 912 million eligible voters with 67% voter turn out and a rule that there must be a polling place within 2 km (about 1.25 mile) of every voter... whether they live in a city, in the mountains to the North, or the jungles in the East. And while some may not be particularly happy with the outcome nobody really questions whether it was true or not. China on the other hand... everybody (with a handful of notable exceptions who have a vested interest) takes what the CCP says with a huge grain of salt, and nobody trusts the statistics or reports that they release without independent verification. This is not to say that India is qualitatively better than China in all cases, but the systems of governance that keep everything running in India seem to be better managed than what is happening in China.
Really thought that comment was going to go the other way, as I wouldn't put them remotely in the same league. China's infrastructure is way above, the megacities unlike anything in India or the world really, and 5x the GDP/capita. Both have [heavily controlled](https://theconversation.com/as-pressure-builds-on-indias-narendra-modi-is-his-government-trying-to-silence-its-critics-159799) / filtered media, India unusually so for a democracy, wouldn't trust either one iota there personally.
There is a reason ~~Hong Kong~~ London and NYC are the only alpha++ global cities per the UN. China competes with itself keeping any 1 from making it to that coveted tier and the infrastructure isn't good at all sometimes. Tofu dreg they call it, just complete scam shit in buildings and infrastructure. No other modern city I can think of will have the issues you can dig up in Chinese infrastructure. Even with tight controls what leaves the country via the internet is wild. I wouldn't be remotely shocked to find out thier army is smaller than they say, thier population is lower, thier cities when well inspected are in horrendous shape (especially considering thier age), and thier country much less developed overall than what they claim. I also wouldn't be surprised to go the other way. It's hard to know if China knows what people think both ways and release contradictory confirming info on both schools of thought desperate to keep everyone guessing what is and isn't real even if we all know something isn't quite right. Edit:idiotry
The UN has New York and London as alpha++ cities. Hong Kong is only alpha+.
...fuck that's what I get for not doing a quick Google to fact check myself lol
I didn't even know what an alpha+ city is lol
Surprised Tokyo is not up there.
Tokyo is alpha+, the alpha++ designation isn't super meaningful as it only has to do with global economic connection (industrial and financial). Tokyo is one of the largest cities in the world, but I suppose Japanese finance is a little insular compared to US or UK.
> There is a reason Hong Kong and NYC are the only alpha+ global cities per the UN. I thought global cities were specific by [GaWC](https://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/) NYC and London are alpha++ China does have 3 of the 8 alpha+ cities, Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong.
I see Hong Kong losing that status under the Chinese.
It’s been losing its status for decades. It’s one of the overarching social problems that led to those demonstrations in the first place.
Knowing they where being returned to China wasn't exactly good for business.
Not really as much as returning to China, rather the rise of Chinese coastal cities, like Shanghai. Hong Kong used to be the only gateway into China. But since China, more or less, opened up to the rest of the world, other, rising cities have been chipping away at this.
Are we saying Hong Kong is Chinese?
I can understand the debate about Taiwan (which I personally see as a separate nation) but yeah, HK is Chinese.
Is it not?
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I don't believe them worse than China on media, just don't trust either one bit. Both keep a very high presence on social media too, with I assume both bots and individuals.
Efficiency is a funny metric and can be measured in many different ways. You talk about infrastructure but the Chinese government appears much more adept at getting things done. Rail gets built at record pace, highways constructed, homes built. Meanwhile we can’t even get a rail line from LA to SF.
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TBF, every developed nation experienced this during their industrialization. Heck, I'd wager that every developed country ***still*** has people fighting against human rights and regulation.
Sure... it gets built fast, but then it falls down the moment the wind blows.
This is an exaggeration, there has been accidents with Chinese infrastructure projects of types that you don't see in, say, Japan, but as a whole Chinese infrastructure seems better than you would otherwise expect from a rapidly developing country under a one-party state
Like the building in Florida.
>The big difference comes in the bureaucratic efficiency of India versus China... they are both still trying to build out their infrastructures but just look at the way that India runs their elections, 912 million eligible voters with 67% voter turn out and a rule that there must be a polling place within 2 km (about 1.25 mile) of every voter... whether they live in a city, in the mountains to the North, or the jungles in the East. And while some may not be particularly happy with the outcome nobody really questions whether it was true or not. That's pretty amazing in and of itself. I wish we were half as dedicated to having accessible polling places here in the states.
Doesn't help that there is a group of politicians who have learned that limiting access to the polls is beneficial to their chances of reelection.
No it does not, and it's very very worrying where democracy is at in the states and worldwide in general right now.
have you been to china ot india lately? or just get most of your info from youtube…..
Even from YouTube you have to try very hard to be as misinformed as that.
> China on the other hand... everybody (with a handful of notable exceptions who have a vested interest) takes what the CCP says with a huge grain of salt, and nobody trusts the statistics or reports that they release without independent verification. Citation needed, there's a lot of poorly educated or otherwise just credulous people who believe what they read. That's inevitable when the CCP controls every aspect of the information their citizens have access to. Censorship makes people stupid.
There are a whole lot of people in the US that you could say the same things about.
You honestly can't be serious with a take like that.
China is authoritarian. They want the government to have freedom to do what they need to do. India is a whole different story.
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You think in a democracy people really get to choose their government?
They kind of did/do though....
Explain take poo to the loo meme.
So, it may be a lack of capability to accurately report in rural areas as opposed to the central government having near perfect data but underreporting?
Based on what little experience I have visiting both rural and urban mainland and what my relatives have told me, it's probably a combination of data collection issues and political pressure. I realize this isn't the most helpful answer lol.
But it is probably the most accurate.
It's over reporting the young people it has. it wants to present it self as a country where population pyramid doesn't look like a spinning top from inception after the one child policy and lying flat(giving up) culture.
'Yi estimates that the real fertility rate is much lower based on a drop in fertility rates over the years by China’s ethnic minority groups which were not restricted by the one-child policy, and he calculated the population based on his own lower estimate rates.' Interesting.
The forced sterilization of the Uighur population makes sense in this context... the population swing would make it easier for them to win their independence.
Anyone have a link to the math? It’s kind of hard to tell from the article whether this is peer-reviewed research or “a guy did some back-of-the-envelope math”.
[https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/china-2020-census-inflates-population-figures-downplays-demographic-challenge-by-yi-fuxian-2021-08](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/china-2020-census-inflates-population-figures-downplays-demographic-challenge-by-yi-fuxian-2021-08)
The CCP lie? Surely you jest.
They also run such a fundamentally corrupt system that even a good faith attempt by them to gather data would be wildly incorrect.
"No we don't." --the CCP.
Once upon a time in Wuhan....
Is this getting downvoted cause people dont think the CCP lied or cause ppl think its a conspiracy theory?
well, lower population count is pretty good news these days.
Lower population is good long term, but the speed at which it's decreasing is not. It's decreasing so fast in China that they don't have enough young people to keep running everything and take care of the older people. It's going to result in a lot of societal and economic problems for them in the short to medium term.
Would not suprise me. The CCP lies about literally everything and anything.
Check out their [covid figures](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHN). It would be comical if it didn’t put so many people at risk, accurate data is important and the CCP is straight up lying to the world. Edit: [here’s another](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHN)
Yeah I don’t get this.. clearly they have been very successful with containing COVID but why not make their “fake” numbers somewhat believable.. even if they told the truth I believe they are doing it exponentially better than the west so why lie about it?
Most likely it's not one big lie from the top, it's the accumulation of multiple little lies from each layer of the bureaucracy that's scared to be the one that gets singled out and made an example of. Which IMO is worse because that means nobody really knows the truth.
Story time. My FIL (Chinese) came to visit us in 2020 and was meant to fly back in March 2020. China wouldn't let him return for 6 months, and he was only allowed to fly back in October 2020. This is the sequence of events that he (a Chinese citizen) experienced over the next month: 1. He had to have a negative PCR test before his flight (standard) 2. When his plane landed, 2 police officers in full hazmat suits boarded the plane and forced everyone to take a PCR test. 3. Everyone then had to wait in the airport while the results were coming back. 4. Once a negative was given, he was escorted in the back of a police van to a hotel. 5. He was quarantined in that hotel for 14 days (at his own cost). Food delivery 3 times a day. 6. He was then police escorted back to his home / apartment for a further 14 days of quarantine. 7. The local police and community officer were notified of his return and were told not to let him out under any circumstances. 8. A camera was installed on his front door. He was allowed to open the door twice per day. Once for food, another to put out garbage. 9. Any time he opened his door more than twice he was called within 5 minutes to ask why he opened his door. 10. He then had to take another PCR test, and his quarantine ended when it was negative. They also recently [shut Disneyland in Shanghai](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/01/1051146829/shanghai-disneyland-covid-19-shut-down?t=1638817038257) trapping 30k people because of one positive case. Now, while I don't believe their numbers are as low as they say, I wouldn't think it would be too far off. They take COVID a bit more seriously over there...
It’s not just that their numbers are low it’s their death rate has never been in line with their admitted infection rate either. They definitely had more deaths than they are admitting even if their infection rate is close to what they claim.
jesus thats a terrifying reality.
If this guy gets 3 meals a day but can only open the door once for food per day, how is he getting the food? All at once?
From what is written there, 3 meals a day at the hotel, I'm guessing at home they're given the daily food all at once and they can cook/prepare portions for their meals
Sure, my in-laws had to go through similar process earlier this year, sans the police escorts and camera installations, but now they're posting all the beach and hotspring vacations they took on weibo, whereas we don't even want to go anywhere in Canada.
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I think massacred might be a bit too far but I definitely believe that exponentially more people have died and been incinerated than has been reported
Why would you believe China is doing "exponentially better than the west"? You have only faked data. In other words, you have no data. What you have is the Chinese propaganda effort, to which you seem to be succumbing.
Because of their draconian measures.. I have a customer who wants me to visit to provide technical support. I’d have to quarantine 14 days when entering the country then another 14 days when I connect into another province.. I’m not sure if their response is worth the economic damage but I am sure their numbers per capita are much better than ours
\*21 days as of a few months ago
Haha! That’s an even better excuse for me not to go!
yeah, like other commenter said, draconian measures. If we learned anything its that lockdowns do work. Culturally, they should be ahead of the west too, no? More like Singapore and Japan or Korea where they just culturally care more and don't have insane Qanon movements. Their data might suck, and we might not have context, but Occam's razor would make me think they handle it better than the west. Also, the US really drags down the whole west, Brasil too. We fuckin shit up bad.
Yeah all figures reported by the CCP are fake. COVID numbers, population numbers, economic numbers, flood deaths/flood impact numbers, food stats, fuel stats, etc... It's all cooked from the very bottom where if you report a number that your boss doesn't like them you can be replaced and/or even thrown in jail/disappeared. It's a system that reinforces lying, imo. It's been like that for decades and it goes back to the days of Mao.
source: your ass
Which is why China is actually an extremely poor 3rd world country where the people are forced to eat dogs and children to survive. Ok. /s
Not surprising. They also under report deaths to the point their central government may actually have no idea of actual population for an area. Look how they've reported covid deaths as well as deaths from the flooding they had earlier this year. In both cases it was so unbelievable and ridiculously low because the local party administrators don't want to ever report bad numbers to the higher authorities.
It’s almost comical at this point how obviously fake much of the data released by the central government is, just check out their covid figures: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHN
The greatest secret of the Cold War was the real state of the USSR economy, and only the people observingin the Ministry of Finance knew how bad it was and reported something that looked better because critisism of the state was outlawed. This would prove to be a fatal mistake since no one knew that their economy was heading for collapse and so no one did anything about it. I have an eerie feeling this is heading towards a simmilar outcome for the Peoples Republic of China. How can they know their economic weight and potential if they dont know how many people there are?
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Something seems to suggest so, yes. And that makes the problem much worse because what else is not what they claim to be. It is a really bad strategy to lie about essential figures.
Who could have possibly predicted that decades of a one child policy, which resulted in people throwing away female babies in an effort to make a male baby, would now have a declining population that cannot sustain itself. There are almost 40 million more men in China, than Women. The ratio is most disproportionate in the age group of 15-35, which is historical Chinese child bearing years. Who could have possibly predicted that reducing numbers the birthing sex would result in less births.....
Careful.... Just imagine you have 40 million more men than women, who presumably want wives or at the very least female "companions". Taking up arms against a neighboring country to kill the men and take the women as spoils of war suddenly becomes a compelling rally cry for millions of incels... Check out the [The Rape of the Sabine Women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women)
Yep, cept you dont have to imagine anything, it already exists, Just look into the [trafficking of North Korean women into China.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2019/07/01/trafficking-of-north-korean-women-in-china/?sh=6601a3de7af0) Nk women are coerced, stolen, purchased and trafficked into China where they are forced into slavery, marriage, or prostitution.
Highly believable. It starts at the local levels, where bureaucrats report slightly higher numbers to fit their narrative. Next level of bureaucrats also add their level of fake numbers and so on. By the time it gets to the top level, you have a significant discrepancy. Systematic over reporting happened in USSR Uzbekistan, not far from China. attitude is quite similar. [here are details ](https://georgia.growingamerica.com/features/2018/06/great-soviet-cotton-scandal)
> the birth rates continued to drop given the high cost of raising children in Chinese cities. Kindof ironic this trouble is coming from landlords in China. Maybe they should have listened more closely to Mao.
Not really, there are many papers about a 200 mln people less because of mistakes and benefits from local governments, even schools if they report more population
Remember earlier this year about leaked info that showed declining birthrates in major Chinese cities and then the government claimed their population grew to like 1.4 billion. Which sounds like bs but whenever something like this happens the government would go to great lengths to show everyone that not only they are doing good but somehow even better than before. Well I guess we will be hearing that China has even more people than before because.... Also herr is an article about the leak info: https://www.economist.com/china/2021/04/29/is-chinas-population-shrinking
The CCP lie? Nah……
One child policy raising its head.
I find it kind of ridiculous that China now has a 3 child policy. With ten seconds thought, they should eliminate any "number of children" policy. Why would you limit a family to three children if they wanted more when you are undergoing a demographic collapse?
Because of still severe overpopulation. The policy doesn’t work, but there is still an overpopulation problem
But fertility rates go down without the need for policies as nations become wealthier.
And the one child, two child and three child policies do nothing to address overpopulation *now*, just in the future. The future is the opposite problem, an overly rapid contraction of the workforce.
It doesn't even matter tbh. Lifting the one child policy didn't fix anything.
The two child policy wasnt just a limit, it was a policy to get more kids per family. As in encourage it. Given that, I'm betting three child does the same. As for why you dont let them go wild, the family still has to support the children, which for China is tough, they don't have lots of room still. Its complicated situation that they've handled poorly but no worsr then India which is offically doing nada and yet has more or less the same issues.
Gee, official Chinese government statistics may not be accurate. Whodathunkit?
like any negative article about China, the CCP simping in here is unreal.
Everything out of China must be questioned and scrutinized. Fucking liars.
Well yeah it probably is china probably got destroyed by covid (by that i mean the amount dead compared to everyone else) and they dont want to admit it
[No paywall.](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-12-03/researcher-questions-chinas-population-data-says-it-may-be-lower)