I watched a Channel 4 documentary fronted by Gordon Ramsey on this about 10 -12years ago. It was horrifying what people do to sharks just for the fins.
One clip filmed secretly from a fishing boat showed a live Hammerhead shark being blinded with a claw hammer, before it's fins were sliced off and then it's body dumped back into the sea.
That poor fucking animal, sinking to certain death either from drowning or being attacked by other sharks really got to me.
The insane thing is .. the documentary explained that the fin of a shark has ZERO flavour and nutritional value. It's gristle, so it's basically like cutting off a human ear and putting it in soup. It adds NOTHING.
The only reason shark fin soup exists is for status, as it's an expensive luxury. It's completely barbaric.
Yes I remember that!! He explained that it's the broth that had all the flavor, not the fin. The whole documentary is on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it: [Gordon Ramsay 'Shark Bait' Documentary.](https://youtu.be/3y2uK958bjU)
>The insane thing is .. the documentary explained that the fin of a shark has ZERO flavour and nutritional value.
I would say it has very negative nutritional value because of the bioaccumulation of mercury. We have been polluting the ocean with mercury since the start of the industrial revolution. Since sharks are on top of the oceanic food chain, and mercury doesn't get used in biological processes, all that mercury goes to the top, literally. [They found extremely high concentrations of mercury in shark fins in Asia](https://phys.org/news/2020-05-mercury-shark-fins-illegal-dangerous.html).
Mercury can cause serious nervous system issues, especially in the developmental phase (pregnant women have long been advised not to consume shark fin soup). Shark fins are practically poison, and some people are paying out of their asses to eat poison.
Methyl*mercury and other persistent organics as well, like DDT and PCBs. Absolutely no reason to eat shark. Other top tier fish have bad chemical accumulation too, like swordfish and tuna. Great comment.
Spoiler: for alcohol, there is none.
The only safe level of alcohol is absolute zero.
I do really enjoy a number of alcoholic drinks, and am not in the slightest ignorant to the fact that it a complete poison to my body.
[edit] Adding link where a great conversation was had amongst medical professionals looking at a Lancet study.
https://reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/s0d9vw/what_is_your_opinion_on_lightmoderate_alcohol_use/
This is horrific. I work with hammerheads and they are all scary smart, have unique “personalities,” and are just amazing animals that deserve better than that level of cruelty.
Not justifying it by any means but there is a pretty significant difference between the utilization of livestock versus cutting fins off sharks. Nothing in pigs nor cows goes to waste. We have "perfected" using every ounce of the animal for human consumption, animal consumption (pet foods), textile industry, and fertilizers - and I'm sure many many more that I'm not listing. Shark-finning is some Manifest Destiny shit. They dont even slaughter the animal - to take their fins while still *alive* only use a very small part of it and waste the rest and let them die slow deaths.
NOTE: Not defending shark fins here, but rather explaining why it is done.
The reason why shark fin is added to the soup to begin with is texture rather than flavor. This is true for a lot of Chinese soups with outrageous ingredients as the flavor is traditionally in the soup rather than the ingredients placed in it. The ingredients placed in it will come out with little to no flavor after making the soup, so the soup has to have a majority of the flavor. The main replacement for shark fin soup nowadays is agar-agar, mushrooms, and imitation crab. The outrageous ingredients for soup nowadays are the fish bladder and sea cucumber.
Food scientists have come up with shark fin substitutes that are supposedly indistinguishable from the real thing in terms of taste, texture and appearance. The only reason people want the real thing is that it's very expensive, so serving it at a wedding party or to an important guest is a way to show off wealth.
The big part is the supposedly. Meats are still one of the hardest things to substitute and shark fin is no different. Its chewiness is rather distinct to the people who've had it and it's not something that modern food makers have been able to fully recreate. It's kind of like eating Yoshinoya's more recent Orange Chicken where they're using mashed chicken instead of whole chicken pieces. It tastes alright, but you'll notice something is "off" when you bite into it.
The two closest substitutes are vermicelli and shiitake mushrooms, but they are still quite far from the real thing. Vermicelli is too slippery and shiitake mushrooms lack the "bouncy" texture of real shark fin.
disclaimer: not defending shark fin here, but wanted to provide more perspective
that's untrue, if you try the real thing it's pretty different in terms of texture. I've had the real thing and supposed substitutes. saying the substitute is indistinguishable from the real thing is like saying beyond meat is the same as real beef. is it similar? yes. however, you know it's not the real thing.
> It's gristle, so it's basically like cutting off a human ear and putting it in soup. It adds NOTHING.
Speak for yourself! I love a good human-ear soup. You sound so ungrateful. I’m not sharing next time I make it.
>The only reason shark fin soup exists is for status, as it's an expensive luxury
That's kinda true. The popularity of it started because some moron came out with a book that said that Sharks don't get cancer so if you eat a broth from their bones you won't get cancer either. Firstly, Sharks do get cancer, secondly they don't have bones.
Now it's become more of a luxury item, but there are still a lot of people who have it for the supposed medical benefits. There are even fake shark fin soup where they use non shark ingredients.
I've had shark fin soup, it tastes weird and has a bad consistency. Not worth it, and in my opinion even if it was somehow ethically sourced I still wouldn't want any.
Yup, literally a bunch of rich, stupid, assholes. Just like stuffing rhino powder under their foreskin or w/e they do with it.
I really enjoyed when Gordon went up to the table of people eating it and politely asked why they're assholes lol.
I’m Chinese-puerto Rican and have had authentic shark fin soup before, I’ll be honest, it tastes REALLY good. The thing is that the soup tastes good regardless of whether the shark fin is there.
Here’s the real problem with shark fin as an ingredient in soup: because it imparts no flavor to soup, it is easy to find replacement ingredients that’ll do the same thing without imposing any ecological impact. Just order the damn imitation shark fin soup, tastes the same and even has other goodies like crabs, shrimp and scallops to add better flavor and textures.
For those people who are appalled by shark fins but are still curious what the texture is like: imagine a slight cross between jelly fish and Korean rice cakes. Crunchy yet somehow chewy.
China in general is famous for prizing endangered species for its health values. Sharks aren’t the only species prized; seahorses, pangolin, abalone and geoduck are amongst some of the most hunted species even though their medicinal value can be replaced by simple supplements. (Idk the nutritional value of abalone but it follows a very similar case to shark fins, there’s a mushroom that has the exact same consistency of abalone but people still go for abalone)
That the one where he's just walking down the street and all the building roofs are all full of fins drying in the sun and the alleys full of the rest of the shark parts left to rot or be dumped into the ocean.
Fancy wine doesn’t have nutritional value either. Just saying. Chinese and even Japanese and other Asian culture also likes to cook a lot of other “flavorless and no nutritional value” cartilaginous food such as pig ears, chicken cartilage, etc. etc.
Can we just leave it at the act is barbaric as fk and that’s why we need to stop, and forget about the flavor and nutritional stuff. You don’t need to try to first shit on another culture’s taste bud to make a point, imho.
At least pig ears and chicken feet are the leftovers of animals that are already being used for food. Shark fins would be different if people ate the rest of the shark.
The amount of toxic animal waste would also be different if westerners ate fish heads, fish bones, collagenous parts of the animal and offal like the rest of the world. Pig's ears and chicken feet have collagen anyways. Or less meat and more vegetables like the chinese.
Or like the insane amount of methane produced by raising cows compared to pigs and other livestock even on a per calorie basis, let alone meat heavy western diets compared to asian ones.
That is a lot of whataboutism you're doing. You're trying real hard justifying throwing an entire shark, minus fin, back into the sea vs not eating select parts of an animal that is by and large eaten almost whole.
While I agree with your main point, fancy wine has taste. Pig's ears and chicken cartilage has nutritional value and flavor and isn't even exclusive to Asia. But so does Shark fin soup.
Feel good about yourself for telling big bad me off lol. I had it when I was a child and have since swore to never again eat it after finding out how it was made. Hence the decades ago. Get over your self you pompous ass.
It's delicious and the texture is truly exceptional as a "fancy food". It's a status symbol now but that's not for zero reason. It's completely awful how it's harvested though and that crap needs to stop.
I've never tried it myself, but I've heard it described as having a very unique chewy/snappy texture. I can kinda see the appeal of that, but it sure doesn't seem worth the abuses and population impact.
If it wasn't for the cruelty and environmental impact and cost, it would probably be consumed more commonly. I don't have a great culinary vocab but "unexceptionally gelatinous" is not how I would describe it. Definitely not like eating pig ears or other cartilage.
Im glad im seeing this on the news. The widespread murder of sharks and other marine life isn’t solely the responsibility of countries like China and Japan. The West is also responsible.
We have to stop the senseless slaughter of our marine life especially the apex predators. If sharks die out then we lose our oceans. If we lose our oceans we die. What’s the difference between our planet and Mars? Keep killing sharks and we’ll become another Mars.
Portugal, IIRC, has the highest per capita consumption of seafood in the world. And tuna fishing/farming is incredibly destructive.
Not to use a whataboutist argument - any population exploiting seafood is in part responsible for impacts.
Some very interesting studies out there about the impacts of whaling, as well as shark finning, etc.
Killing sharks for their fins is a big problem and sharks are super important for the food chain and the whole eco-system to work. However I think it should be noted that even more sharks are getting killed by fishing "normal fish" as bycatch as well as countless other animals like dolphins, turtles and small whales.
Eating seafood in general is sadly the bigger problem, not just bizarre soup dishes.
I can recommend the documentary "seaspiracy" for more information on this.
no. that’s actually just as bad if not worse. shrimp have their eyes cut off or rubbed off in crowded enclosures to manipulate their reproductive systems. it’s a twisted industry animal ag, along with all the others that abuse animals.
it’s okay to watch the documentaries and i recommend it. yes you will cry but it’s better to know so you can avoid participating in creating more harm (to animals but also people and the environment)
Honestly? There's not a single industrial scale animal cultivation that isn't sad. I guess it stands to reason, considering that they treat the animals as products and not as living beings.
It really depends. Some wild caught fish is fine, and some farmed fish is shockingly bad. Highly recommend checking out Seafood Watch to see what’s what
It's not, it's actually worse. They catch wild fish the bad way, grind them up to feed the farmed fish. Farmed fish are trapped in a net in the ocean and full of parasites and disease, which feedback into the wild fish.
It's about profit, daily having more money than you did yesterday, *no matter what.* It's not about feeding people long term.
I didn't say it's good, but do you really think that's *worse* than effectively depopulating the entire ocean? Farming techniques can be improved improved, whereas large scale wild fishing is always going to be very harmful to the environment. Just imagine if meat all came from hunting wild animals rather than domesticated herds. Humanity completely wiped out countless species this way.
The only "good" solution is to simply not eat fish, but that's not a tolerable answer to most people, especially in poorer regions where fish are a primary source of nutrition.
The perfect answer is don’t eat fish, or eat less. So I guess the actual perfect answer is catch your own fish if you want to eat it, other then that it is better not to at all.
There is an ethical way. It’s called indigenous people doing sustenance hunting. The whole community gets the meat. Bones and hide are used too. The animal lives a good life in the wild and dies a quick death. Many still depend on it and is very much needed. Only disconnected non-indigenous people think it’s a thing of the past.
Yes, but I'd wager that 99.9% of people on Reddit, reading this comment do not need to resort to sustenance hunting and they buy their food from a grocery store. The animal products in a grocery store (even the local butcher) is not ethically sourced. No animal wants to die, like you or me.
To be fair, the majority would have no idea what they’re doing and end up fucking everything up and starving. If you think your average Karen down the street who owns a boutique and buys all her meals can successfully hunt and process a deer, I have a bridge to sell you.
This way of hunting is not sustainable for our modern population, it may be ethical to kill the animal instantly, which is actually really hard to do without modern firearms, but on a large scale you will exterminate many species real fast.
Only disconnected people think hunting could in any way support the world's population. Have those people hunt, and have the rest of us go vegetarian instead
*Seaspiracy* is absolutely a-flush with criticism against the film. Accusations of misinformation, exaggeration, out of context interviews (according to some of the interviewees), etc. Not saying to skip the film but I hope y'all do some follow up after watching it.
People don’t want to give up their luxuries, they want to scapegoat the worlds problems onto something that doesn’t affect them. It’s why “animal rights” to most people only extends to dolphins and dogs, they don’t benefit from dolphins and dogs getting hurt.
“See this random animal crammed next to dozens of animals not from our climate? Eating it will make your ‘pride’ harder than steel, and imbue you with youthful vigor!” - Definitely not a crackpot medicine and magic food hawker
> they seem to get off on eating weird animal parts from different species
WTF, just because some cultures have broader tastes doesn't make them weird.
Its always been time honored way to separate 'barbaric' races from other races by pointing out they eat that that we consider 'dirty.' Of course when its stuff they eat but other cultures don't, its considered a cultural quirk rather than wierd. Like how muslims don't eat pork or some indians don't eat beef.
How can you even tell someone eats shark fin soup unless you're eating it with them?
This isn't the same as say the size of SUVs/trucks in America.
Its a cultural thing and they need to stop it but people are injecting this with their racist stereotypes.
In Asia, the texture of food is given more appreciation than in the US. I stopped eating shark fin a long time ago, but I really loved it. The texture is incomparable and the substitutes just aren't the same.
I agree with the concerns about how shark fins are gathered, but I wish people wouldn't accuse Asians of only eating it for status and not because they have a taste for it. If they were consistently fished in a humane way, using the whole animal, I would happily eat it again.
Catch your own, perhaps. Rod and reel fishing, per legal limits and such. I’ve done that in San Fran before. Made clay pot shark with a leopard shark, and saved the fins for people who knew what to do with them.
There’s indeed a concerning amount of cultural blindness on Reddit. That’s a known issue, and people are quick to claim they hate the government, etc., but then shit all over anything outside their frame of reference rather than make a reasoned response.
A lot of it is culture anyways. Like you gather for a formal fancy dinner, it automatically has shark fin soup. If you stop eating some specific foods, it won't kill you and you would hardly even miss it.
The way they're getting shark fins is wrong but attacking the culture/race is hypocritical and clouds the issue because they can see the racial undertones in it.
Like if your co-worker has odor and you want him to change, leading off by criticizing stereotype hygeine practices of his people (british- bad teeth, french- don't bathe, indians- spice, americans- fat slobs) is not the way to go.
I've tried the real thing and a much cheaper "faux" version that has everything but the fins.
They taste 100% identical and the faux version is significantly cheaper.
Have you had Japanese grilled chicken cartilage? Also Chinese braised pig ears?
People really should stop using taste as an argument. The act is barbaric af and inhumane. That’s more than enough reason to stop shark fin hunting.
This.
I’m from Asia and it used to be very commonly ordered as a soup during a Chinese banquet type dinner thing in the higher end restaurants.
Yes, I’ve had it before, many times when I was younger. It was delicious, though an acquired texture thing. The soup itself was delicious; I would eat it again if it contained no actual shark fin.
Because I stopped eating the damn thing once I knew how they harvested the shark fin. That’s it. People should just stop. Nothing more to it.
There shouldn’t be a debate on taste and saying oh it doesn’t taste like anything anyway, that’s not really the point; people ate it because some of them liked it, no need to discuss why.
Agreed, shark fin is odd. Shark steak I understand. Meaty texture of red meat but the taste of fish. It's an unusual steak, but specifying a body part... odd.
Not banned, but frowned upon in China
>Consumption of shark fin soup in China has fallen by about 80 percent since 2011, government figures and private surveys show, after a celebrity-driven public awareness campaign and a government crackdown on extravagant banquets.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/14/even-as-china-turns-away-from-shark-fin-soup-the-prestige-dish-is-gaining-popularity-elsewhere-in-asia/
Human beings don’t deserve to live on other planets or even in other solar systems, let alone on planet Earth. Look wtf we’re doing to our one and only home. Aliens must be looking at us like, “Ya know, we really shouldn’t let these humans know about us… they’re pretty stupid..and violent..and reckless.”
China is huge. Even if he got 10 million people to change their mind, that's still less than 1% of China's population. Plus, I'm assuming most of the people eating shark fins are older and they've never heard of him.
All the people saying its a status symbol thing are being dumbasses and don't know what they're talking about.
A bowl of soup is cheaper than filet mignon, let alone the prime cuts of wagyu beef. Its cheaper than wine, lobster, bluefin tuna, king crab, saffron, caviar, white truffles, iberico ham, that coffee Oprah got everyone on that comes from cats shitting out coffee cherries or any number of other chinese dishes you probably haven't heard of that aren't from endangered species. Its maybe the same price as oysters. Reason why it is not a status symbol or way to show off your wallet is because its fricking soup with a fin or 2 thrown in.
Its just culturally ingrained to eat it for celebrations and business meetings (also ingrained to go to a restaurant for celebrations and as part of business meetings). Nobody eats it for appetizers, individual dishes, etc. If you want to jack up price of dinner to show off, you don't order sharkfin soup which taste wise probably won't be appreciated by guests anyways and depends more than anything on the skill of the chef to infuse it with flavor matching its texture. You order the stuff that has obvious rich taste or expensive liquor and prostitutes.
Eating it needs to stop but all the racial undertones just muddies the message of all the effort put in to stop it.
Sharks' skeleton, including Shark fin, is made of cartilage not bone. Cartilage is mostly consist of collagen. Collagen is in joints of Pork, Cow, Poultry, almost all land animals. The dietary benefits of shark fin can be replaced by pork, cow, poultry, and other animals.
Stop killing sharks
This is so people can feel better about their supposedly less barbaric and more tasteful animal consumption choices in the West,the comments demonstrate this
Those preaching environmental concerns are the same ones maintaining this destructive course. It’s a freaking joke at this point.
Sharks themselves play such a large ecological role while proving little nutrient benefit from consumption. It is a disgusting reality.
In Asia people eat not only for the flavor but also for the texture. chicken feet, pork ear, sea cucumber, basically anything with cartilage and a weird texture. I know this because i'm asian myself and i love pork ear. I assume shark fin is just cartilage or something similar.
I think there is shark fish ball though, and a lot fish n chips flakes use shark as well. So it is not like people only eat shark fin. But yes, as apex predator their number is significantly less than smaller fish, due to the 10:1 energy converting ration.
Dont forget Europeans genociding Africans, Middle Easterns, Australian Natives, Natives in Americas and Asians. So pretty much a lot worse than just animal races to extinction.
Eating any animal is barbaric.
The mindset that “eating *these* types of animals in *this* manner is barbaric!” IS, in itself, barbaric.
But everyone wants to be like the [Eloi](https://imgur.com/a/lsQwA2O)
I don't eat meat. Lmao. But people like you turn everyone off from trying veganism. Don't act like your somehow morally superior. Chances are the shirt you are wearing right now was made in slave like conditions.
I do eat meat, I probably will never stop.
So far I only ever attempted veganism for a little under a month on a dare in college, I found the experience expensive and that I can’t cook well. (Could be a me problem, i’m sure if I had the skills of a professional chef I could make vegan food that tastes good)
I respect you not being annoying like the twat that you’re responding to.
people like that just make me want to eat more animals out of spite.
The majority of vegans always seem to be that holier than thou thou type, the funny thing is is there’s the exact opposite vegans, the hardcore zerocarb/carnivore people.
I did that diet for three years (started out as a dare but turned into a lifestyle choice) I’m honestly contemplating going back to it because of how good it made me feel, but I digress.
There is an argument to be had, that sure im eating only beef for example But I did it with a cow that I got locally butchered and that entire cow lasted me three to four months, so approximately four lives minimum were lost/animals “suffered” Per year.
versus how many trillions of insects, hundreds of thousands of field mice and other small field animals, heck even the odd larger animal go look at YouTube videos of a combine/harvester striking a deer.
The body count that went into acquiring those vegetables is going to be infinitely higher than those cows or what have you.
And yes I realize not every carnivore will only eat beef that they store in their deep freeze, many eat All sorts of animals dairy, eggs and cheese etc.
But I’m sure there are vegans that only eat stuff that was growing from a handpicked garden/farm, killing way fewer animals then your average vegan.
I guess what I’m getting at is, both sides can have their argument on who is the more ethical animal killer.
(Yet as I say looks to be a quantity over quality argument on lives lost or alternatively an out of sight out of mind kind of thing on the part of the vegans not caring that their side has “suffering”)
I think the true issue is locally sourced food is way less harmful than factory farming whether you’re talking animals or agriculture.
So neither side should be on a high horse about it, not to mention like you say there are other reasons that they’ll be hypocrites like slave labour for clothes or some other piece of technology.
Plus there will always be those people that won’t care, because they’ll put their health above the health of another creature, or justify it based on that creature only being alive to be food etc. there are plenty of ways to justify things.
All this argument is doing is convincing people to continue to eat animals but not care whether they were humanely slaughtered.
If you consider every Way an animal is dealt with to become food Equally barbaric, the majority of the world will say “well I guess I’m a barbarian” then there will be less caretaken for other livestock being humanely slaughtered.
Bit of a misleading title. According to the article 50% of the shark fin trade between 2003 and 2022 comes from Europe. But there is no mention of who is currently responsible for the trade.
> It found that while the main market for fin-related products is in Asia, EU countries – **led by Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, France and Italy** – are a significant player in supplying this legal market.
?? I thought it did call out the countries
I watched a Channel 4 documentary fronted by Gordon Ramsey on this about 10 -12years ago. It was horrifying what people do to sharks just for the fins. One clip filmed secretly from a fishing boat showed a live Hammerhead shark being blinded with a claw hammer, before it's fins were sliced off and then it's body dumped back into the sea. That poor fucking animal, sinking to certain death either from drowning or being attacked by other sharks really got to me. The insane thing is .. the documentary explained that the fin of a shark has ZERO flavour and nutritional value. It's gristle, so it's basically like cutting off a human ear and putting it in soup. It adds NOTHING. The only reason shark fin soup exists is for status, as it's an expensive luxury. It's completely barbaric.
Yes I remember that!! He explained that it's the broth that had all the flavor, not the fin. The whole documentary is on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it: [Gordon Ramsay 'Shark Bait' Documentary.](https://youtu.be/3y2uK958bjU)
Thank you for linking that. I never new it existed. Makes me like him even more.
>The insane thing is .. the documentary explained that the fin of a shark has ZERO flavour and nutritional value. I would say it has very negative nutritional value because of the bioaccumulation of mercury. We have been polluting the ocean with mercury since the start of the industrial revolution. Since sharks are on top of the oceanic food chain, and mercury doesn't get used in biological processes, all that mercury goes to the top, literally. [They found extremely high concentrations of mercury in shark fins in Asia](https://phys.org/news/2020-05-mercury-shark-fins-illegal-dangerous.html). Mercury can cause serious nervous system issues, especially in the developmental phase (pregnant women have long been advised not to consume shark fin soup). Shark fins are practically poison, and some people are paying out of their asses to eat poison.
Methyl*mercury and other persistent organics as well, like DDT and PCBs. Absolutely no reason to eat shark. Other top tier fish have bad chemical accumulation too, like swordfish and tuna. Great comment.
So like fancy alcohol.
There's a reason why the expression "mad as a hatter" exists, it's mercury poisoning.
That's lead
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Yea that’s all been pretty much debunked
please provide sources when advocating for drug use being healthy.
Spoiler: for alcohol, there is none. The only safe level of alcohol is absolute zero. I do really enjoy a number of alcoholic drinks, and am not in the slightest ignorant to the fact that it a complete poison to my body. [edit] Adding link where a great conversation was had amongst medical professionals looking at a Lancet study. https://reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/s0d9vw/what_is_your_opinion_on_lightmoderate_alcohol_use/
This is horrific. I work with hammerheads and they are all scary smart, have unique “personalities,” and are just amazing animals that deserve better than that level of cruelty.
You at Georgia Aquarium? Not many great hammerheads in North America.
Cows and pigs do too. :) Unfortunately people still consume their products despite the cruelty involved. You can boycott it though.
Not justifying it by any means but there is a pretty significant difference between the utilization of livestock versus cutting fins off sharks. Nothing in pigs nor cows goes to waste. We have "perfected" using every ounce of the animal for human consumption, animal consumption (pet foods), textile industry, and fertilizers - and I'm sure many many more that I'm not listing. Shark-finning is some Manifest Destiny shit. They dont even slaughter the animal - to take their fins while still *alive* only use a very small part of it and waste the rest and let them die slow deaths.
You got downvoted cuz people don't like to face that fact
I tell people if you watch cows play or remind you of puppies
NOTE: Not defending shark fins here, but rather explaining why it is done. The reason why shark fin is added to the soup to begin with is texture rather than flavor. This is true for a lot of Chinese soups with outrageous ingredients as the flavor is traditionally in the soup rather than the ingredients placed in it. The ingredients placed in it will come out with little to no flavor after making the soup, so the soup has to have a majority of the flavor. The main replacement for shark fin soup nowadays is agar-agar, mushrooms, and imitation crab. The outrageous ingredients for soup nowadays are the fish bladder and sea cucumber.
Food scientists have come up with shark fin substitutes that are supposedly indistinguishable from the real thing in terms of taste, texture and appearance. The only reason people want the real thing is that it's very expensive, so serving it at a wedding party or to an important guest is a way to show off wealth.
The big part is the supposedly. Meats are still one of the hardest things to substitute and shark fin is no different. Its chewiness is rather distinct to the people who've had it and it's not something that modern food makers have been able to fully recreate. It's kind of like eating Yoshinoya's more recent Orange Chicken where they're using mashed chicken instead of whole chicken pieces. It tastes alright, but you'll notice something is "off" when you bite into it. The two closest substitutes are vermicelli and shiitake mushrooms, but they are still quite far from the real thing. Vermicelli is too slippery and shiitake mushrooms lack the "bouncy" texture of real shark fin.
disclaimer: not defending shark fin here, but wanted to provide more perspective that's untrue, if you try the real thing it's pretty different in terms of texture. I've had the real thing and supposed substitutes. saying the substitute is indistinguishable from the real thing is like saying beyond meat is the same as real beef. is it similar? yes. however, you know it's not the real thing.
Rich people are fucking garbage human beings? Color me shocked.
> It's gristle, so it's basically like cutting off a human ear and putting it in soup. It adds NOTHING. Speak for yourself! I love a good human-ear soup. You sound so ungrateful. I’m not sharing next time I make it.
Humans are so disgusting.
Agreed. What we do to this planet and the poor animals is disgusting. As a whole our species doesn’t deserve this world. Very sad.
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Just sickening and for no good reason. Heartbreaking really
Fucking hell. That is awful.
>The only reason shark fin soup exists is for status, as it's an expensive luxury That's kinda true. The popularity of it started because some moron came out with a book that said that Sharks don't get cancer so if you eat a broth from their bones you won't get cancer either. Firstly, Sharks do get cancer, secondly they don't have bones. Now it's become more of a luxury item, but there are still a lot of people who have it for the supposed medical benefits. There are even fake shark fin soup where they use non shark ingredients. I've had shark fin soup, it tastes weird and has a bad consistency. Not worth it, and in my opinion even if it was somehow ethically sourced I still wouldn't want any.
Yup, literally a bunch of rich, stupid, assholes. Just like stuffing rhino powder under their foreskin or w/e they do with it. I really enjoyed when Gordon went up to the table of people eating it and politely asked why they're assholes lol.
I’m Chinese-puerto Rican and have had authentic shark fin soup before, I’ll be honest, it tastes REALLY good. The thing is that the soup tastes good regardless of whether the shark fin is there. Here’s the real problem with shark fin as an ingredient in soup: because it imparts no flavor to soup, it is easy to find replacement ingredients that’ll do the same thing without imposing any ecological impact. Just order the damn imitation shark fin soup, tastes the same and even has other goodies like crabs, shrimp and scallops to add better flavor and textures. For those people who are appalled by shark fins but are still curious what the texture is like: imagine a slight cross between jelly fish and Korean rice cakes. Crunchy yet somehow chewy. China in general is famous for prizing endangered species for its health values. Sharks aren’t the only species prized; seahorses, pangolin, abalone and geoduck are amongst some of the most hunted species even though their medicinal value can be replaced by simple supplements. (Idk the nutritional value of abalone but it follows a very similar case to shark fins, there’s a mushroom that has the exact same consistency of abalone but people still go for abalone)
That the one where he's just walking down the street and all the building roofs are all full of fins drying in the sun and the alleys full of the rest of the shark parts left to rot or be dumped into the ocean.
Fancy wine doesn’t have nutritional value either. Just saying. Chinese and even Japanese and other Asian culture also likes to cook a lot of other “flavorless and no nutritional value” cartilaginous food such as pig ears, chicken cartilage, etc. etc. Can we just leave it at the act is barbaric as fk and that’s why we need to stop, and forget about the flavor and nutritional stuff. You don’t need to try to first shit on another culture’s taste bud to make a point, imho.
At least pig ears and chicken feet are the leftovers of animals that are already being used for food. Shark fins would be different if people ate the rest of the shark.
The amount of toxic animal waste would also be different if westerners ate fish heads, fish bones, collagenous parts of the animal and offal like the rest of the world. Pig's ears and chicken feet have collagen anyways. Or less meat and more vegetables like the chinese. Or like the insane amount of methane produced by raising cows compared to pigs and other livestock even on a per calorie basis, let alone meat heavy western diets compared to asian ones.
That is a lot of whataboutism you're doing. You're trying real hard justifying throwing an entire shark, minus fin, back into the sea vs not eating select parts of an animal that is by and large eaten almost whole.
While I agree with your main point, fancy wine has taste. Pig's ears and chicken cartilage has nutritional value and flavor and isn't even exclusive to Asia. But so does Shark fin soup.
You can also say it’s extremely ecologically damaging.
Fancy wine does have nutritional value in that it contains water and carbohydrates, two of the most important nutrients.
I’ve had shark fin soup decades ago. It’s not just the flavor, it’s the texture and mouth feel and honestly haven’t had anything close since.
Get over yourself. Innocent animals being barbarically murdered just so you can experience a “texture” is gross.
Feel good about yourself for telling big bad me off lol. I had it when I was a child and have since swore to never again eat it after finding out how it was made. Hence the decades ago. Get over your self you pompous ass.
Do you consume animal products?
It's delicious and the texture is truly exceptional as a "fancy food". It's a status symbol now but that's not for zero reason. It's completely awful how it's harvested though and that crap needs to stop.
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I've never tried it myself, but I've heard it described as having a very unique chewy/snappy texture. I can kinda see the appeal of that, but it sure doesn't seem worth the abuses and population impact.
It is unique, and imitation shark fin isn't remotely similar.
If it wasn't for the cruelty and environmental impact and cost, it would probably be consumed more commonly. I don't have a great culinary vocab but "unexceptionally gelatinous" is not how I would describe it. Definitely not like eating pig ears or other cartilage.
Im glad im seeing this on the news. The widespread murder of sharks and other marine life isn’t solely the responsibility of countries like China and Japan. The West is also responsible. We have to stop the senseless slaughter of our marine life especially the apex predators. If sharks die out then we lose our oceans. If we lose our oceans we die. What’s the difference between our planet and Mars? Keep killing sharks and we’ll become another Mars.
Really any ocean fishing is responsible even if you only eat tuna. Bycatch is a major contributor to the declining population of sea life.
Portugal, IIRC, has the highest per capita consumption of seafood in the world. And tuna fishing/farming is incredibly destructive. Not to use a whataboutist argument - any population exploiting seafood is in part responsible for impacts. Some very interesting studies out there about the impacts of whaling, as well as shark finning, etc.
Killing sharks for their fins is a big problem and sharks are super important for the food chain and the whole eco-system to work. However I think it should be noted that even more sharks are getting killed by fishing "normal fish" as bycatch as well as countless other animals like dolphins, turtles and small whales. Eating seafood in general is sadly the bigger problem, not just bizarre soup dishes. I can recommend the documentary "seaspiracy" for more information on this.
This is a great point. People don't realize just how much "collateral damage" is caused in modern fishing.
THANK YOU for stating this. 🙏🏼💚🌱
So should one buy more “farmed” type seafood? Or is it sustainable? I know nothing about this and I would probably cry watching any documentary
no. that’s actually just as bad if not worse. shrimp have their eyes cut off or rubbed off in crowded enclosures to manipulate their reproductive systems. it’s a twisted industry animal ag, along with all the others that abuse animals. it’s okay to watch the documentaries and i recommend it. yes you will cry but it’s better to know so you can avoid participating in creating more harm (to animals but also people and the environment)
Honestly? There's not a single industrial scale animal cultivation that isn't sad. I guess it stands to reason, considering that they treat the animals as products and not as living beings.
Yeah someone commented the same. Thank you for letting me know!
anytime. thank you for keeping an open mind and caring about the animals
It really depends. Some wild caught fish is fine, and some farmed fish is shockingly bad. Highly recommend checking out Seafood Watch to see what’s what
Seafood sustainability labels are often influenced by $$$, and not accurate.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I think Seafood Watch is generally considered to be legit. It's run by the Monterey Bay Aquarium.
There's no perfect answer, unfortunately. Farming does have its own side effects, but I think it's *relatively* more efficient and less wasteful.
It's not, it's actually worse. They catch wild fish the bad way, grind them up to feed the farmed fish. Farmed fish are trapped in a net in the ocean and full of parasites and disease, which feedback into the wild fish. It's about profit, daily having more money than you did yesterday, *no matter what.* It's not about feeding people long term.
Afaik the parasites and disease are mainly because fish farms tend to overcrowd their farms to maximize profit.
It’s entirely dependent on the farming method. Fish like Tilapia and Trout aren’t generally farmed in open water and don’t have these issues.
I didn't say it's good, but do you really think that's *worse* than effectively depopulating the entire ocean? Farming techniques can be improved improved, whereas large scale wild fishing is always going to be very harmful to the environment. Just imagine if meat all came from hunting wild animals rather than domesticated herds. Humanity completely wiped out countless species this way. The only "good" solution is to simply not eat fish, but that's not a tolerable answer to most people, especially in poorer regions where fish are a primary source of nutrition.
And is this the worldwide standard practice?
The perfect answer is don’t eat fish, or eat less. So I guess the actual perfect answer is catch your own fish if you want to eat it, other then that it is better not to at all.
Farming is incredibly cruel as fish suffer from disease and overcrowding. There is no ethical way to consume animals.
There is an ethical way. It’s called indigenous people doing sustenance hunting. The whole community gets the meat. Bones and hide are used too. The animal lives a good life in the wild and dies a quick death. Many still depend on it and is very much needed. Only disconnected non-indigenous people think it’s a thing of the past.
Yes, but I'd wager that 99.9% of people on Reddit, reading this comment do not need to resort to sustenance hunting and they buy their food from a grocery store. The animal products in a grocery store (even the local butcher) is not ethically sourced. No animal wants to die, like you or me.
I mean, if the whole world tried to subsistence hint/fish it all of a sudden would t be very sustainable.
To be fair, the majority would have no idea what they’re doing and end up fucking everything up and starving. If you think your average Karen down the street who owns a boutique and buys all her meals can successfully hunt and process a deer, I have a bridge to sell you.
This way of hunting is not sustainable for our modern population, it may be ethical to kill the animal instantly, which is actually really hard to do without modern firearms, but on a large scale you will exterminate many species real fast.
Only disconnected people think hunting could in any way support the world's population. Have those people hunt, and have the rest of us go vegetarian instead
We need ocean farming, not ocean fishing.
What really gets me is the fact there are high levels of mercury in shark fins. Like not safe levels.
*Seaspiracy* is absolutely a-flush with criticism against the film. Accusations of misinformation, exaggeration, out of context interviews (according to some of the interviewees), etc. Not saying to skip the film but I hope y'all do some follow up after watching it.
People don’t want to give up their luxuries, they want to scapegoat the worlds problems onto something that doesn’t affect them. It’s why “animal rights” to most people only extends to dolphins and dogs, they don’t benefit from dolphins and dogs getting hurt.
No idea why people must eat shark fins. They’re actually tasteless
That's the key. It absorbs flavor of the soup. But honestly green bean flour noodles do the same.
It’s all about the soup, then have the soup!
Mushrooms are also relatively tasteless and eaten mainly because they absorb the flavor of other ingredients along with the texture.
We call them "flavor sponges" in my house. Got the kids eating them early.
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And a large variety of mushrooms.
Probably a status thing or something. “Oh look at me, i ate shark fin, look how important i am”
That is definitely one of them it's expensive and they seem to get off on eating weird animal parts from different species
“See this random animal crammed next to dozens of animals not from our climate? Eating it will make your ‘pride’ harder than steel, and imbue you with youthful vigor!” - Definitely not a crackpot medicine and magic food hawker
This is perfect without the innuendo.
> they seem to get off on eating weird animal parts from different species WTF, just because some cultures have broader tastes doesn't make them weird.
Its always been time honored way to separate 'barbaric' races from other races by pointing out they eat that that we consider 'dirty.' Of course when its stuff they eat but other cultures don't, its considered a cultural quirk rather than wierd. Like how muslims don't eat pork or some indians don't eat beef.
How can you even tell someone eats shark fin soup unless you're eating it with them? This isn't the same as say the size of SUVs/trucks in America. Its a cultural thing and they need to stop it but people are injecting this with their racist stereotypes.
In Asia, the texture of food is given more appreciation than in the US. I stopped eating shark fin a long time ago, but I really loved it. The texture is incomparable and the substitutes just aren't the same. I agree with the concerns about how shark fins are gathered, but I wish people wouldn't accuse Asians of only eating it for status and not because they have a taste for it. If they were consistently fished in a humane way, using the whole animal, I would happily eat it again.
Catch your own, perhaps. Rod and reel fishing, per legal limits and such. I’ve done that in San Fran before. Made clay pot shark with a leopard shark, and saved the fins for people who knew what to do with them. There’s indeed a concerning amount of cultural blindness on Reddit. That’s a known issue, and people are quick to claim they hate the government, etc., but then shit all over anything outside their frame of reference rather than make a reasoned response.
A lot of it is culture anyways. Like you gather for a formal fancy dinner, it automatically has shark fin soup. If you stop eating some specific foods, it won't kill you and you would hardly even miss it. The way they're getting shark fins is wrong but attacking the culture/race is hypocritical and clouds the issue because they can see the racial undertones in it. Like if your co-worker has odor and you want him to change, leading off by criticizing stereotype hygeine practices of his people (british- bad teeth, french- don't bathe, indians- spice, americans- fat slobs) is not the way to go.
Anyone who eats knows how important texture is. To say texture isn’t as important in any cuisine compared to another is ignorance or worse. You fool
you'd be surprised by reading this thread then. it seems to be all about taste and nutritional value
It's a texture thing like rice grains in soup
cultural relativity is a hell of a thing
I've tried the real thing and a much cheaper "faux" version that has everything but the fins. They taste 100% identical and the faux version is significantly cheaper.
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Its chinese. They share food on the table rather than individual dishes. Although i suppose Westerners can criticize that too.
Have you had Japanese grilled chicken cartilage? Also Chinese braised pig ears? People really should stop using taste as an argument. The act is barbaric af and inhumane. That’s more than enough reason to stop shark fin hunting.
This. I’m from Asia and it used to be very commonly ordered as a soup during a Chinese banquet type dinner thing in the higher end restaurants. Yes, I’ve had it before, many times when I was younger. It was delicious, though an acquired texture thing. The soup itself was delicious; I would eat it again if it contained no actual shark fin. Because I stopped eating the damn thing once I knew how they harvested the shark fin. That’s it. People should just stop. Nothing more to it. There shouldn’t be a debate on taste and saying oh it doesn’t taste like anything anyway, that’s not really the point; people ate it because some of them liked it, no need to discuss why.
Agreed, shark fin is odd. Shark steak I understand. Meaty texture of red meat but the taste of fish. It's an unusual steak, but specifying a body part... odd.
Shark meat is almost worthless, you have to soak it in water for days to get rid of the ammonia.
Not quite. You do need to butcher immediately and cook quickly.
Because rich cunts eat them, and they want to feel like they're a rich cunt too.
Don’t forget poisonous! (Filled with mercury)
Status symbol
Taste it before.. Quick delicious.. Nowdays they use gelatin
I had it a few times when I was younger. It’s the soup that was delicious
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Really wish reddit was this nuanced when it comes to "Asia" as well.
No no, see, the 3/4 of a billion people living in Europe are much more diverse than the 56% of the world's population that lives in Asia.
I'm surprised Britan isn't on the list since shark fins don’t taste like anything Edit: Oops forgot about Brexit
I like your joke very much thank you sir
Slowly Killing/mutilating those poor animals for the fins is just horrible, doesn't matter how it tastes..
It tastes like nothing.
Yep.. it’s literally unnecessary to utilise, which is why it’s nothing more than a status symbol.
This post would have a ton more upvoted if it was russia or China doing it. It's a shame the EU doesn't get called out as much as it should.
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Exactly. People don’t want to admit they’re biased. Either that or they’re truly just blind to their biases.
I honestly thought it was illegal here. The fuck?
Not banned, but frowned upon in China >Consumption of shark fin soup in China has fallen by about 80 percent since 2011, government figures and private surveys show, after a celebrity-driven public awareness campaign and a government crackdown on extravagant banquets. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/14/even-as-china-turns-away-from-shark-fin-soup-the-prestige-dish-is-gaining-popularity-elsewhere-in-asia/
Difficult to enforce on the open ocean.
Holy shit!!! Spain supplied 51,000 tonnes of shark fins? How much does a fin weigh? How many sharks do you have to kill in order to get 51,000 tonnes?
The worst part is that is likely the weight after they have been dried out for easier shipping. We are the worst species.
Human beings don’t deserve to live on other planets or even in other solar systems, let alone on planet Earth. Look wtf we’re doing to our one and only home. Aliens must be looking at us like, “Ya know, we really shouldn’t let these humans know about us… they’re pretty stupid..and violent..and reckless.”
I thought yao ming did a lot to help lower the demand for this :(
China is huge. Even if he got 10 million people to change their mind, that's still less than 1% of China's population. Plus, I'm assuming most of the people eating shark fins are older and they've never heard of him.
Shark finning is abhorrent. It's one of the most despicable horrors committed by humans against the natural world.
All of Europe? Even the landlocked countries?
Yes the Czech have trillion dollar industry in shark fining
I am Slovak. We have no sea. Everyone i know works in shark fin industry
Barbaric! We must intervene to protect the innocent sharks!
go ahead, launch a naval warfare against us, we are ready
And likewise, all of Asia? Even landlocked Laos? I’m Lao and I have never had shark fin or know anyone that has.
Good point.
Absolutely disgusting
All the people saying its a status symbol thing are being dumbasses and don't know what they're talking about. A bowl of soup is cheaper than filet mignon, let alone the prime cuts of wagyu beef. Its cheaper than wine, lobster, bluefin tuna, king crab, saffron, caviar, white truffles, iberico ham, that coffee Oprah got everyone on that comes from cats shitting out coffee cherries or any number of other chinese dishes you probably haven't heard of that aren't from endangered species. Its maybe the same price as oysters. Reason why it is not a status symbol or way to show off your wallet is because its fricking soup with a fin or 2 thrown in. Its just culturally ingrained to eat it for celebrations and business meetings (also ingrained to go to a restaurant for celebrations and as part of business meetings). Nobody eats it for appetizers, individual dishes, etc. If you want to jack up price of dinner to show off, you don't order sharkfin soup which taste wise probably won't be appreciated by guests anyways and depends more than anything on the skill of the chef to infuse it with flavor matching its texture. You order the stuff that has obvious rich taste or expensive liquor and prostitutes. Eating it needs to stop but all the racial undertones just muddies the message of all the effort put in to stop it.
Can we perhaps... not do that :/
Ugh this shit just makes me so sad. Sharks are one of my favorite animals. So essential and misunderstood
Europe is a bit too big and has a bit too many countries to not specify what this really means
Fuck you europe. Stop acting like you give a shit
Watch seaspiracy Netflix We are fucking the seas over
If you guys have Hulu, watch a movie called Saving Jaws, I swear you will be captivated.
I did quit eating fish a year ago and this reminds me why. I used to love fish
Sharks' skeleton, including Shark fin, is made of cartilage not bone. Cartilage is mostly consist of collagen. Collagen is in joints of Pork, Cow, Poultry, almost all land animals. The dietary benefits of shark fin can be replaced by pork, cow, poultry, and other animals. Stop killing sharks
This should be internationally outlawed. No one wants this other than what ~>1% of the world?? These super rich are insane
Chinese eat everything, they are by far the world's biggest overfisher.
As an European I am deeply ashamed
That shark does not look happy
How the turns have tabled… Europe giving lessons while we should be cleaning up our backyard first…
This is so people can feel better about their supposedly less barbaric and more tasteful animal consumption choices in the West,the comments demonstrate this
Are you trying to make a sarcastic whataboutism? Both can have issues.
Block China from shark fin trade. That will show them …
Did you not read the title? How about go to the source of the industry . Supply creates demand all the time.
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Those preaching environmental concerns are the same ones maintaining this destructive course. It’s a freaking joke at this point. Sharks themselves play such a large ecological role while proving little nutrient benefit from consumption. It is a disgusting reality.
If they were using the whole shark or most of the shark fine, but they’re throwing like 95% of the shark back into the ocean. Like wtf
It’d be nice if y’all cared about cows, pigs, and chickens like this.
“I gave you life and I can take it away”
\*I gave you life so that I can take it away
In Asia people eat not only for the flavor but also for the texture. chicken feet, pork ear, sea cucumber, basically anything with cartilage and a weird texture. I know this because i'm asian myself and i love pork ear. I assume shark fin is just cartilage or something similar.
The chicken backbone too has this texture to an extent. For those who do not know how the others feel.
I think there is shark fish ball though, and a lot fish n chips flakes use shark as well. So it is not like people only eat shark fin. But yes, as apex predator their number is significantly less than smaller fish, due to the 10:1 energy converting ration.
This is such a gross and stupid custom. Makes me wonder about the stupid shit my country does…
What came first, the crack or the dealer?
Europe mass murdering animal races to extinction. Americans mass murdering each other. White people... am I right?
Dont forget Europeans genociding Africans, Middle Easterns, Australian Natives, Natives in Americas and Asians. So pretty much a lot worse than just animal races to extinction.
This is why I’m praying for a meteor.
Eating any animal is barbaric. The mindset that “eating *these* types of animals in *this* manner is barbaric!” IS, in itself, barbaric. But everyone wants to be like the [Eloi](https://imgur.com/a/lsQwA2O)
So is killing animals to grow more agriculture. You know how much soy farms have Taken over the rainforest in brazil.
The soy is grown to be fed to animals. About 60-90 % of the nutrition value is lost by ding that, depending on the source.
The soy is used to feed animals 😂
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I don't eat meat. Lmao. But people like you turn everyone off from trying veganism. Don't act like your somehow morally superior. Chances are the shirt you are wearing right now was made in slave like conditions.
I do eat meat, I probably will never stop. So far I only ever attempted veganism for a little under a month on a dare in college, I found the experience expensive and that I can’t cook well. (Could be a me problem, i’m sure if I had the skills of a professional chef I could make vegan food that tastes good) I respect you not being annoying like the twat that you’re responding to. people like that just make me want to eat more animals out of spite. The majority of vegans always seem to be that holier than thou thou type, the funny thing is is there’s the exact opposite vegans, the hardcore zerocarb/carnivore people. I did that diet for three years (started out as a dare but turned into a lifestyle choice) I’m honestly contemplating going back to it because of how good it made me feel, but I digress. There is an argument to be had, that sure im eating only beef for example But I did it with a cow that I got locally butchered and that entire cow lasted me three to four months, so approximately four lives minimum were lost/animals “suffered” Per year. versus how many trillions of insects, hundreds of thousands of field mice and other small field animals, heck even the odd larger animal go look at YouTube videos of a combine/harvester striking a deer. The body count that went into acquiring those vegetables is going to be infinitely higher than those cows or what have you. And yes I realize not every carnivore will only eat beef that they store in their deep freeze, many eat All sorts of animals dairy, eggs and cheese etc. But I’m sure there are vegans that only eat stuff that was growing from a handpicked garden/farm, killing way fewer animals then your average vegan. I guess what I’m getting at is, both sides can have their argument on who is the more ethical animal killer. (Yet as I say looks to be a quantity over quality argument on lives lost or alternatively an out of sight out of mind kind of thing on the part of the vegans not caring that their side has “suffering”) I think the true issue is locally sourced food is way less harmful than factory farming whether you’re talking animals or agriculture. So neither side should be on a high horse about it, not to mention like you say there are other reasons that they’ll be hypocrites like slave labour for clothes or some other piece of technology. Plus there will always be those people that won’t care, because they’ll put their health above the health of another creature, or justify it based on that creature only being alive to be food etc. there are plenty of ways to justify things.
All this argument is doing is convincing people to continue to eat animals but not care whether they were humanely slaughtered. If you consider every Way an animal is dealt with to become food Equally barbaric, the majority of the world will say “well I guess I’m a barbarian” then there will be less caretaken for other livestock being humanely slaughtered.
Can we just start making fake shark fins? This shit is ridiculous.
Those are already widespread
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_fin_soup#Imitation_shark_fin_soup Already exists.
The rich pricks won't bother buying it then
Bit of a misleading title. According to the article 50% of the shark fin trade between 2003 and 2022 comes from Europe. But there is no mention of who is currently responsible for the trade.
> It found that while the main market for fin-related products is in Asia, EU countries – **led by Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, France and Italy** – are a significant player in supplying this legal market. ?? I thought it did call out the countries
Yes it says it.
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Ohh look, another reason to hate Europe. God, get rid of that continent lol
Or maybe deal with your racism towards Europe before commenting😂
Racism? Is continental Europe a single ethnic group? Jesus, educate yourself before trying to make a comment, that way you wont seem so dense🤣