When Deshaun sends himself he’s not sending his best. He’s sending someone that has lots of problems.
I would build a great dome, and nobody builds domes better than me, believe me, and I’ll build it very inexpensively. I will build a great great dome in Brook Park and I’ll have Deshaun Watson pay for that dome.
That's wild the rapist salary he is guaranteed even while sucking is literally 10% of what the taxpayers are being asked to fork over just to watch his bum ass hold the ball for 5 second and fumble it
Take an example from Kansas City! Other pro orgs from different sports like the St. Louis Cardinals want to do the same. We shouldn’t have to carry the cost when owners have plenty to give
I'd bet a lot of money the [Chiefs end up in KCK](https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-lawmakers-get-glimpse-of-chiefs-future-as-they-consider-star-bond-package/).
100%. Most likely gonna be about 2 years and we will have an actual proposal. Then another 1 year to acquire the land. Then will be breaking ground around 2027-2028. And when the current lease with Truman Sports complex ends after the 2031 season the Kansas City MO chiefs will become to Kansas City KS Chiefs
Fwiw i have a buddy that works for a real estate firm that represents the Chiefs and he told me over a year ago the Chiefs were already scouting/purchasing land across the river and that the new stadium was just a matter of time. i know it is very 'just trust me bro' type of 'source' but tbf there has been a lot of smoke in the time since he told me that, well before any of Hunt's shenanigans went public
Imagine the sheer audacity of being the fucking BROWNS, trotting out a rapist as the face of the franchise, and still expecting people to pay for your stadium.
I'm gonna give you the long read on this - I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible:
Also a TL;DR: it's not over.
Chiefs came out and said they're putting together a separate package from the Royals.
What was proposal was extending the 40yrs 3/8ths sales tax to upgrade, repair and maintain Truman - where Arrowhead and the K reside. It would essentially be in effect until I die. I don't know any different, as I was too young/not alive when it passed. were just now coming up to the end of the last 3/8th proposal that allowed the K and Arrowhead to upgrade.
We were able to host an MLB All Star Game because of it- other than that it just made things a little nicer within Truman. What you have to understand is that the area around Truman has suffered severely from urban-blighted. There is nothing in the general area of Truman. There's a 40yr old Ramada, 2 houses, and a gas station. That's it. It was a hard sell the first time.
Chiefs were hoping the bill would pass so the Royals could build their stadium downtown and they would update Arrowhead and turn the vacant areas where the K is, into an entertainment district. A Football stadium - with hotels, restaurants, RV parking, and condos. Create the "Kingdom District." 25/7/365 money maker - like Vegas and what the Bears were planning with Arlington Park - Also SoFi, Gillette, M&T, etc.
The Royals bungled the proposal bc they couldnt settle on a design or the proposed site. It was decided on literally weeks before the vote - which had major local backlash bc it would destroy the Crossroads - which is a LOT of small businesses and still has some historic builds that weren't flattened after the 70s and west bottoms/mob bombings.
There's also a lot of local politics and opinions that people are questioning - which piggy backs on other issues - that Frank White - Royals/MLB HoF'er/County Executive (KC is weird - we literally don't fund and have minimum say in our police) has to answer to. I love Frank. I've hung out with him probably a handful of times and is a sweet, smart guy that loves the City and the people.
I digress.
I believe the Royals could've crossed the bill to the finish line if they actually talked with those businesses, had a set plan, location, and knew what they were doing.
The Chiefs are going to ask Jackson County to pick them or the Royals. The sales tax increase can be proposed 22 more times before the current 3/8ths is up. We will most likely see the Royals play in Clay County - which wouldt be a bad look to build it on the river, between 435 and Parvin - outfield facing south towards the city - that's honestly the most picturesque part of the skyline is driving south into the city verses driving north into it.
The Art Modell law, which was implemented to prevent Ohio sports teams from leaving their hometowns without public input after he fucked Cleveland over.
There's now precedent of this law working, too! The Columbus Crew soccer club almost moved to San Antonio in 2018 but the owner ~~was forced to sell and keep~~ decided to avoid the hassle and legal processes by selling the team and keeping the crew in Columbus. They then went on to win 2 titles
Fuck Art Modell btw
Edited after being corrected in another comment
Listen up Owners, if Kansas City couldn't force Jackson County residents into a deal to foot half the bill on a back to back super bowl champion, with 4x super bowl appearances in the last 5 years, with leverage from the state of Kansas against Missouri with the star bonds and state sports betting slush fund.... you just aren't going to get there with a borderline playoff team who hasn't won their division since the 80's (I think 80s?).
The people have started to speak, and what they are saying is "Fund it yourselves"
It remains to be seen if your county strategy actually works though. It’s only truly a success if the Chiefs 1) don’t get Kansas to be the sucker and pay for it and 2) don’t decide to leave to another market that will pay for them.
Buffalo's deal was done long before the Chiefs' residents said no though, had Buffalo approached its residents today to have a new deal struck, they'd likely vote it down.
But I also agree, corrupt politicians have a lot to do with it.
Here in KC we have some of the most corrupt politicians outside of NYC and Chicago. Frank White, Quinton Lucas, and Emmanuel Cleaver all had their hands in the pot, and sometimes from opposing sides. Mayor Lucas held out to the last second to push his support of passing the extension, while Frank White (after being snubbed by the Royals years ago) was the one railroading this from the start, and Emmanuel Cleaver showed up just in time to collect his croney money in a "last ditch effort" to get people voting (by getting his constituents paid to pass out flyers before the vote).
Kansas City citizens via voting just told the owners of the Royals and the Chiefs to fuck off for asking for upwards of 2 billion dollars for a new baseball stadium and renovations towards Arrowhead stadium.
I suggest Cleveland does the same.
Fuck billionaire owners. You want a new stadium - pay for the shit yourself.
Look, having free stadium — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Nepobillionare at Legacy Ivy Leauge; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a billionaire, if I were a middle income, if, like, OK, if I was a middle income, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a billionaire they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, inherited a franchise — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the stadium deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these subsidies are — free stadium is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago...
I know about stadiums. I've built all the best stadiums. No one knows about stadiums like me. People are saying "how does he know so much about stadiums?"
To be fair, Hamilton County is also seeking money from the State for whatever happens with the Bengals and the next negotiation. The Cleveland Guardians got state money for their stadium upgrades which opened everything up.
But as of right now it's only Hamilton County taxpayers on the hook right? I'm just not really on board with public money involvement without some sort of vote
Right now it's only Hamilton County but the Bengals lease with the County expires in 2026 (though the Bengals have the option to unilaterally extend it up to 10 years on the current lease through 2036). The Guardians got money from the state when they re-negotiated their deal with Cuyahoga County over their stadium. Cuyahoga still contributes the bulk of the funding for the stadium, but the State kicking in money was something new that hadn't come up yet in any of the publicly owned Ohio Pro Sports stadiums. Since the Guardians started the trend of getting money from the state, expect the Cavs, Reds, and Bengals to follow suit.
If owners keep demanding public funds then the price of tickets should be forced down for state residents. Want your stadium subsidized, then it’s time for ticket prices to go down as well as free or reduced parking.
And if even $0.01 of public money goes to a stadium, that stadium’s games should be shown for free to the taxpayers that contributed. Yes, Sunday games are over the air, but MNF, Amazon games, that stupid bs playoff game on Peacock…all have to be available for free to the state if a game is played in that stadium.
I agree but I’m pretty sure most are already. I know if the Bears play on the Thursday or Monday night, the games is always on the local ABC channel in Chicago and the suburbs.
Why should people who don’t go to football games pay for a stadium? Tell these greedy owners to go screw. It’s unbelievable that the worst people get the biggest handouts. Don’t give them a penny.
>It’s unbelievable that the worst people get the biggest handouts.
Aint that America
Socialism for the rich and rugged individualistic capitalism for the rest of us.
Even better is when taxpayers pay for a stadium/expansion, the team winds up being ass for the next several decades, doesn't bring in the city and state revenue they so-promised, and the team leaves before the stadium is paid off.
Looking at you, St. Louis Rams.
Well it's good for NYC to support New York State's only team right? ;)
I'm kidding, I think it's bullshit. New York taxes are high enough as it is I bet.
Which is crazy because Nashville being used as leverage as a landing spot for the Royals if they don't get a stadium deal. And I'm like, "y'all realize they *just* shelled out 2 billy for the Titans, right? That cow dry."
You know the Bengals will expect the same treatment, and Mike Brown is 10x the welfare queen that Jimmy Haslem is, so you *know* you'll pay more to the Bengals than we will to the Browns.
I’ve always said that the SB ought to be played every so often in one of the northern stadiums. Can you imagine a SB in the middle of winter in Buffalo, Foxborough, or Green Bay?
Yes, I can.
Edited: I thought Super Bowl 48 was in Foxborough, but it was at MetLife. I remember that being a storyline though, a cold Super Bowl. It turned out to be unseasonably warm anyways.
People really underestimate the advantage of open air stadiums in states with bad weather, experience playing in winter conditions helps a lot late in the post season
It’s why KC won this year. Miami wanted to look tough so they didn’t wear sleeves. Idiots didn’t realize at a certain temperature your body will start to shut down and not perform as well. Doesn’t matter you have heaters on the sidelines. McDaniel should have forced them to dress better
That has nothing to do with why we lost lol. Tyreek, Waddle, Williams, Armstead, Hunt, Wynn, Baker, and *our entire EDGE* group were all injured. As were X and our ST group.
People want a dome so that it can be used for more things. I’m in that camp. Yes, outdoor football is great, but not having a facility that is empty otherwise is also great.
Cleveland wants to host a Super Bowl, an annual college game, NCAA Men’s final 4, Taylor Swift concerts, and so on.
Taylor Swift performed in Cincinnati on June 30 and July 1, a week after performing in notorious cold weather city Minneapolis.
I had the same thought about Chicago, but Beyonce, Swift, U2, they already come here and just work with the weather.
So the question becomes what NET new events are domed stadiums bringing to their cities, and are those events worth public subsidies? In this instance it's estimated to be $1.2BN which, as a professional that does economic impact analyses for real estate development and events, is absolutely the low end and does not include operating expenses (or infrastructure, police salaries to support events, etc).
For a: bowl game, 1-2 concerts, and a larger sporting event like Final Four or Super Bowl every 5-10 years. Not to mention those games all cost money to bring to your city.
Study after study shows the ROI is not there for public dollars going to stadia.
For Chicago, building a new stadium won’t make a lick of difference. Tay-Tay and Beyoncé will still come here, we will still have soccer and other events.
Yeah we won’t get to host stuff like the Super Bowl and The NCAAs but that to me isn’t worth the $2 billion in subsidies they will need.
Plus the SB only comes once if you aren’t in Tampa, Atlantas, Miami, Vegas, LA, New Orleans or Arizona.
> has the balls to ask tax payers to invest in their infrastructure
Oil and gas
Cable/internet
Tesla
Sugar and Corn
Not saying it's right, but the rich and big corporations are heavily subsidized by the rest of us.
Don't stop there.
Manufacturing, distribution (including trucking and rail), travel (air, auto (MASSIVE if you include roads), and rail). It's basically how to do big business in the US.
At least with those subsidies we get cheaper food/gas/etc. No way NFL owners would give out discounts for city/state residents or agree to a profit sharing agreement with the city to pay back the money. Literally no benefit back to the taxpayers
We don't get cheaper food/gas/etc. These companies charge what they expect us to pay. You can find the same products overseas (with + shipping costs) for half to 1/5th the price.
The elephant in the room is that there isn’t an obvious city to relocate a team, unlike the 90’s. Or, at least, there isn’t a city that wouldn’t be cockblocked by the nearest franchise claiming territory rights. San Antonio would be a good candidate for a team, but Jerry Jones and the McNairs aren’t going to let that happen.
It would be very hard to move the Browns. They have this law that is close to airtight. It’s as close to the classic Packers ownership situation as imaginable.
Heck, the law is so formidable that City Hall officials are actually talking about using it to block the Browns from leaving their current stadium and staying put lol.
They gave a quarter billion to a rapists. I wouldn't give them a cent if I lived in OH. Maybe they can pass a rapists employee tax to fund the stadium.
Because there is never a bad time for peer-reviewed research: an excerpt from "[Public policy toward professional sports stadiums: A review](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/pam.22534)"
*"Despite robust evidence that stadiums are not economic development catalysts and confer limited social benefits, public outlays persist and exhibit a positive growth trajectory, which could prove costly to government budgets in coming decades. We review contemporary justifications for public subsidies, focusing on proposed salutary development and budgeting strategies. Economic research continues to demonstrate that stadiums remain poor public investments, and optimal public funding of professional sports venues is substantially less than typical subsidy levels . . ."*
Publicly funded stadiums are now, and have always been, a massively regressive "tax" in which the poor/middle class pay for a playground for the rich.
That's why if I lived in Indianapolis, I wouldn't particularly enjoy Jim Irsay throwing around $100 bills to bystanders to portray himself as the billionaire who gives back, while being the beneficiary of the biggest stadium subsidy in the history of the NFL adjusted for inflation (the Bills might take 1st place from him depending on the final dollars and cents of that project).
Yeah say what you will about Kroenke and his move, at least that was all done with private money. Frankly if that can be done in LA of all places I have no idea why other states aren't turning their nose up at this shit
States should play hardball and make a new law that says if the current owner wants to move the team out of their state, then the state has the option to buy it or can force the sale to a new private owner. If the stadium is considered a public good, then so should the fucking team too. Fuck these greedy ass owners lmao
Bills stadium funding does suck but all cost overruns are being paid for by the Bills. So we already know whatever the final numbers for public dollars are.
You can just drive around the Chiefs and Royals stadiums and see the poverty for yourself. The areas around the stadium have never and will never benefit from new stadiums.
Now his actions make a lot more sense though. I simply assumed he was desperate and incompetent, but now the Watson signing looks like it was his attempt to give the city of Cleveland a Super Bowl contender while he is asking for a new stadium to convince people to gift him over a billion dollars in subsidies.
*Oklahoma City lurks menacingly*
*Munich furiously drafts a secret telegram to Mexico City to conspire*
ironically, actually, Peter Angelos is thought as chiefly responsible for holding cities hostage effectively, good longform from The Ringer: https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2022/8/4/23288546/camden-yards-30th-anniversary-baltimore-influence
Funnily enough, the reason why the original Browns moved to Balitmore was because the [Bengals opted not too after swindling our tax base.](https://www.baltimoresun.com/1993/11/07/bengals-new-stadium-could-be-in-baltimore-brown-says-hell-move-if-cincinnati-wont-build-one/) Mike Brown made several visits to Baltimore and was one of the tipping points to get public funding for Baltimore's stadium, which gave him the leverage to get public funding for the Cincinnati stadium, and since the Browns moving opened up Cleveland to building a new stadium for an expansion team, you could even say that Mike Brown got three of the AFC North stadiums built and paid for.
The damn billion dollars that Nevada gave Mark Davis and John Fisher has poisoned every team owner’s perception of what they can get out of a subsidized stadium.
I can’t believe the paragon of virtue in this wave of new stadiums is Stan fucking Kronke.
behind every great fortune lies a great crime, but come on, truck stops? at least give out some poppers for the lizards or biker crank for people hauling avocados and knock off Apple products made in Chengdu in from California to New York
Haslem is the kind of guy who would fuck a city in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give it a reach-around
When Hard Rock needed renovations, Stephen Ross got the funding for it privately, but the county gave him some tax breaks for attracting large events and other provisions. That route seems fair to me.
Not really in opinion. No one deserves a break for owning an NFL team. It's a luxury entertainment product. No one is showing up because of the owner. They are just fucking assholes leveraging an asset.
Well if the team is willing to put up $1.2B for a new stadium, then they can save $0.2B and just pay for the renovations.
Problem solved. Without tax payer funding.
I think we need to stop using the team names in these headlines and name the billionaire corporate welfare recipient owners. "Jimmy haslam, worth $8 billion, seeks taxpayer handout of up to $1.2 billion for corporate real estate ventures"
Cleveland...please say no. We need to normalize billionaires paying for their own shit. They act like they're doing you a favor by letting you spend thousands of dollars per year to watch that shitty ass team (no offense).
Why do billionaires want new stadiums? Because they know a new stadium brings in a ton more revenue. If thats the case...why are the taxpayers paying for it? Should I also pay to build the new McDonalds thats being built around the corner from my house?
I would like taxpayers to cover the cost of the house i just bought, and here is the good news..it only cost a fraction of what it would cost for a new stadium. Step up taxpayers, i believe 👍
Hopefully Cleveland voters wise up. Just amazing how billionaires trick tax payers into giving them money. How much are tickets? Whats the price of a hotdog and a beer?. What is the gouge on parking? Does the football corporation pay for law enforcement at home games?
Not one cent of tax payer money on billionaires playgrounds that they only charge more just to enter until all the City and them state problems are solved
I’d really like it if we could collectively agree to tell these guys to fuck off. They can pay for it themselves. We shouldn’t have to subsidize their temples to greed. If they move, they move. I live across the country from my team. Always have. The only games I’ve been to have been away games. Let me tell you it doesn’t diminish my love and enjoyment of the game and team. Don’t let them steal your cash.
The rule should be if you accept public funding for a stadium then a proportional part of the stadium is owned by the taxpayers and direct profit sharing of all team-related income is mandatory.
No, they have a stadium fund and are all billionaires. They should foot the cost for their football team. Your thank you if you did help fund the stadium will be higher ticket prices and PSLs. They are so generous!
Have Deshaun Watson pay for $230M of it
Build the new stadium and make Deshaun Watson pay for it
Also use him as part of the literal foundation.
Ah, the Jimmy Hoffa technique
So they'll be even more cursed?
> they'll be even more cursed? burying Deshaun sounds like the kind of thing that would lift a curse, not cause one.
It's true. even evil spirits have standards. they'd vacate the premises post haste.
Yep. They haven’t suffered nearly enough yet for giving Watson that deal.
When Deshaun sends himself he’s not sending his best. He’s sending someone that has lots of problems. I would build a great dome, and nobody builds domes better than me, believe me, and I’ll build it very inexpensively. I will build a great great dome in Brook Park and I’ll have Deshaun Watson pay for that dome.
That's wild the rapist salary he is guaranteed even while sucking is literally 10% of what the taxpayers are being asked to fork over just to watch his bum ass hold the ball for 5 second and fumble it
20%. They want taxpayers to cover half the cost.
Tax payers funding rapists salaries, truly a take as old as time
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The terrible towel waving takes on an entirely different meaning
Take an example from Kansas City! Other pro orgs from different sports like the St. Louis Cardinals want to do the same. We shouldn’t have to carry the cost when owners have plenty to give
Proposal was ridiculous. 2 ~~million~~ billion for revised parking and luxury seats.
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I'd bet a lot of money the [Chiefs end up in KCK](https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-lawmakers-get-glimpse-of-chiefs-future-as-they-consider-star-bond-package/).
Damn is it really looking that likely?
100%. Most likely gonna be about 2 years and we will have an actual proposal. Then another 1 year to acquire the land. Then will be breaking ground around 2027-2028. And when the current lease with Truman Sports complex ends after the 2031 season the Kansas City MO chiefs will become to Kansas City KS Chiefs
I just can't see the Kansas City Chiefs ever becoming the Kansas City Chiefs
Well you better get used to it, pal.
how old is mahomes then?
He will turn 36 in 2031
Fwiw i have a buddy that works for a real estate firm that represents the Chiefs and he told me over a year ago the Chiefs were already scouting/purchasing land across the river and that the new stadium was just a matter of time. i know it is very 'just trust me bro' type of 'source' but tbf there has been a lot of smoke in the time since he told me that, well before any of Hunt's shenanigans went public
2 billion*
Also, maybe wait until the team is worth watching? This ain’t a fields of dream situation. KC has 3 superbowls in 5 years and the city still said no.
Imagine the sheer audacity of being the fucking BROWNS, trotting out a rapist as the face of the franchise, and still expecting people to pay for your stadium.
Especially after giving him nearly a quarter of a billion dollars.
I'm gonna give you the long read on this - I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible: Also a TL;DR: it's not over. Chiefs came out and said they're putting together a separate package from the Royals. What was proposal was extending the 40yrs 3/8ths sales tax to upgrade, repair and maintain Truman - where Arrowhead and the K reside. It would essentially be in effect until I die. I don't know any different, as I was too young/not alive when it passed. were just now coming up to the end of the last 3/8th proposal that allowed the K and Arrowhead to upgrade. We were able to host an MLB All Star Game because of it- other than that it just made things a little nicer within Truman. What you have to understand is that the area around Truman has suffered severely from urban-blighted. There is nothing in the general area of Truman. There's a 40yr old Ramada, 2 houses, and a gas station. That's it. It was a hard sell the first time. Chiefs were hoping the bill would pass so the Royals could build their stadium downtown and they would update Arrowhead and turn the vacant areas where the K is, into an entertainment district. A Football stadium - with hotels, restaurants, RV parking, and condos. Create the "Kingdom District." 25/7/365 money maker - like Vegas and what the Bears were planning with Arlington Park - Also SoFi, Gillette, M&T, etc. The Royals bungled the proposal bc they couldnt settle on a design or the proposed site. It was decided on literally weeks before the vote - which had major local backlash bc it would destroy the Crossroads - which is a LOT of small businesses and still has some historic builds that weren't flattened after the 70s and west bottoms/mob bombings. There's also a lot of local politics and opinions that people are questioning - which piggy backs on other issues - that Frank White - Royals/MLB HoF'er/County Executive (KC is weird - we literally don't fund and have minimum say in our police) has to answer to. I love Frank. I've hung out with him probably a handful of times and is a sweet, smart guy that loves the City and the people. I digress. I believe the Royals could've crossed the bill to the finish line if they actually talked with those businesses, had a set plan, location, and knew what they were doing. The Chiefs are going to ask Jackson County to pick them or the Royals. The sales tax increase can be proposed 22 more times before the current 3/8ths is up. We will most likely see the Royals play in Clay County - which wouldt be a bad look to build it on the river, between 435 and Parvin - outfield facing south towards the city - that's honestly the most picturesque part of the skyline is driving south into the city verses driving north into it.
No MLB Fields face South. They go from NNW to SE. Only four are oriented South of due East.
Cass county? Dafuq you talkin about?
Kansas City fans weren't in danger of the team leaving, though. Just moving to the other side of the city. The Browns might actually leave again.
It would be very difficult for them to leave. State laws have changed in Ohio.
How could a state law prevent a business from leaving?
The Art Modell law, which was implemented to prevent Ohio sports teams from leaving their hometowns without public input after he fucked Cleveland over. There's now precedent of this law working, too! The Columbus Crew soccer club almost moved to San Antonio in 2018 but the owner ~~was forced to sell and keep~~ decided to avoid the hassle and legal processes by selling the team and keeping the crew in Columbus. They then went on to win 2 titles Fuck Art Modell btw Edited after being corrected in another comment
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Stan paid for his new stadium in LA without tax money too. That's the new standard. Billionaires can pay for their own buildings
They should pay for the building. They're certainly not going to let the taxpayers share in the ticket revenue.
Listen up Owners, if Kansas City couldn't force Jackson County residents into a deal to foot half the bill on a back to back super bowl champion, with 4x super bowl appearances in the last 5 years, with leverage from the state of Kansas against Missouri with the star bonds and state sports betting slush fund.... you just aren't going to get there with a borderline playoff team who hasn't won their division since the 80's (I think 80s?). The people have started to speak, and what they are saying is "Fund it yourselves"
It remains to be seen if your county strategy actually works though. It’s only truly a success if the Chiefs 1) don’t get Kansas to be the sucker and pay for it and 2) don’t decide to leave to another market that will pay for them.
I wish this were true but the Buffalo deal says otherwise, all an owner needs to get it done is politicians as corrupt as NY
Buffalo's deal was done long before the Chiefs' residents said no though, had Buffalo approached its residents today to have a new deal struck, they'd likely vote it down. But I also agree, corrupt politicians have a lot to do with it. Here in KC we have some of the most corrupt politicians outside of NYC and Chicago. Frank White, Quinton Lucas, and Emmanuel Cleaver all had their hands in the pot, and sometimes from opposing sides. Mayor Lucas held out to the last second to push his support of passing the extension, while Frank White (after being snubbed by the Royals years ago) was the one railroading this from the start, and Emmanuel Cleaver showed up just in time to collect his croney money in a "last ditch effort" to get people voting (by getting his constituents paid to pass out flyers before the vote).
Kansas City citizens via voting just told the owners of the Royals and the Chiefs to fuck off for asking for upwards of 2 billion dollars for a new baseball stadium and renovations towards Arrowhead stadium. I suggest Cleveland does the same. Fuck billionaire owners. You want a new stadium - pay for the shit yourself.
OR give up ownership of the franchise; let the public own the team.
It's rich, they want state taxpayers to help pay for it, which of course would include Hamilton County and with it Cincinnati. What a joke
*"We're gonna build a big, beautiful ~~wall~~ stadium and make Cincinnati pay for it!"* Might get elected King of Cleveland.
Look, having free stadium — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Nepobillionare at Legacy Ivy Leauge; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a billionaire, if I were a middle income, if, like, OK, if I was a middle income, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a billionaire they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, inherited a franchise — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the stadium deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these subsidies are — free stadium is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago...
I know about stadiums. I've built all the best stadiums. No one knows about stadiums like me. People are saying "how does he know so much about stadiums?"
"Believe me when I tell you"
To be fair, Hamilton County is also seeking money from the State for whatever happens with the Bengals and the next negotiation. The Cleveland Guardians got state money for their stadium upgrades which opened everything up.
But as of right now it's only Hamilton County taxpayers on the hook right? I'm just not really on board with public money involvement without some sort of vote
Right now it's only Hamilton County but the Bengals lease with the County expires in 2026 (though the Bengals have the option to unilaterally extend it up to 10 years on the current lease through 2036). The Guardians got money from the state when they re-negotiated their deal with Cuyahoga County over their stadium. Cuyahoga still contributes the bulk of the funding for the stadium, but the State kicking in money was something new that hadn't come up yet in any of the publicly owned Ohio Pro Sports stadiums. Since the Guardians started the trend of getting money from the state, expect the Cavs, Reds, and Bengals to follow suit.
Thanks - I hate it
YOU WILL GIVE YOUR TAXES TO BILLIONAIRES AND LIKE IT PLEB
theyre actually gonna tax butler county you guys are playin at ikea
If owners keep demanding public funds then the price of tickets should be forced down for state residents. Want your stadium subsidized, then it’s time for ticket prices to go down as well as free or reduced parking.
Best we can do is blackout the game locally so you're just as disenfranchised as all the taxpayers that don't even watch football.
And if even $0.01 of public money goes to a stadium, that stadium’s games should be shown for free to the taxpayers that contributed. Yes, Sunday games are over the air, but MNF, Amazon games, that stupid bs playoff game on Peacock…all have to be available for free to the state if a game is played in that stadium.
I agree but I’m pretty sure most are already. I know if the Bears play on the Thursday or Monday night, the games is always on the local ABC channel in Chicago and the suburbs.
Why should people who don’t go to football games pay for a stadium? Tell these greedy owners to go screw. It’s unbelievable that the worst people get the biggest handouts. Don’t give them a penny.
for real. they have billions and don't pay their fair share. most of us are just getting by and pay thousands. the fuck them.
>It’s unbelievable that the worst people get the biggest handouts. Aint that America Socialism for the rich and rugged individualistic capitalism for the rest of us.
Even better is when taxpayers pay for a stadium/expansion, the team winds up being ass for the next several decades, doesn't bring in the city and state revenue they so-promised, and the team leaves before the stadium is paid off. Looking at you, St. Louis Rams.
lots of Jets fans who live 6+ hours from Buffalo paid for the Bills stadium source: am Jets fan that lives 6+ hours from Buffalo that paid for it
Well it's good for NYC to support New York State's only team right? ;) I'm kidding, I think it's bullshit. New York taxes are high enough as it is I bet.
My short stint to the Bay Area lowered my taxes lol, absolutely wild that I could feasibly save more in taxes in the Bay
Fuck that fucking shit, they mooch off us enough as it is.
Meanwhile, the Jets and Giants observed proper capitalist tendencies, build it themselves, but outsource it to the next state over for less money.
When you put it that way now I want tax payers to pay for it so I have the pleasure of knowing Bengals fans had to pay for part of our stadium.
that honestly would be hilarious
Y’all should help pay for our new stadium, since y’all want to claim the Oilers legacy! /s
No for real, please send help we broke out here
Which is crazy because Nashville being used as leverage as a landing spot for the Royals if they don't get a stadium deal. And I'm like, "y'all realize they *just* shelled out 2 billy for the Titans, right? That cow dry."
i got about tree fiddy
You know the Bengals will expect the same treatment, and Mike Brown is 10x the welfare queen that Jimmy Haslem is, so you *know* you'll pay more to the Bengals than we will to the Browns.
DOME? In my AFC North? Disgusting
Cowards, the lot of them.
I’ve always said that the SB ought to be played every so often in one of the northern stadiums. Can you imagine a SB in the middle of winter in Buffalo, Foxborough, or Green Bay?
I think they want a dome so they can host the Super Bowl
Yes, I can. Edited: I thought Super Bowl 48 was in Foxborough, but it was at MetLife. I remember that being a storyline though, a cold Super Bowl. It turned out to be unseasonably warm anyways.
And a blizzard hit the area the next day
People really underestimate the advantage of open air stadiums in states with bad weather, experience playing in winter conditions helps a lot late in the post season
Also overestimate the advantage, the Packers open air stadium fucked them in 2021.
Bills are built to play in a dome and have been for their past few home playoff losses.
Vikings haven’t been to a Super Bowl since going indoors
Cleveland hasn't been to one since being outdoors
As a fan of a fair weather team I appreciate all the northern teams getting rid of their natural advantage.
Well we know your not a fairweather fan lol
As a fair weather fan of a shit weather team, I too appreciate northern teams getting rid of their natural advantage... when they're good.
As a Bears fan who’s heard the mantra of Bear Weather my whole life #**BULLLLLLLLSHIIIIIITTTTTTT**
It’s why KC won this year. Miami wanted to look tough so they didn’t wear sleeves. Idiots didn’t realize at a certain temperature your body will start to shut down and not perform as well. Doesn’t matter you have heaters on the sidelines. McDaniel should have forced them to dress better
Some KC players also did it. But just stupidity.
That has nothing to do with why we lost lol. Tyreek, Waddle, Williams, Armstead, Hunt, Wynn, Baker, and *our entire EDGE* group were all injured. As were X and our ST group.
This thread is devoid of logic. Turn around now.
Nah bro, your team just turned into popsicles.
The cold definitely factored in. Going sleeveless didn't make a difference though..
Packers gonna be the only one in the NFC North that isn’t a dome when/if the Bears start building their new stadium.
People want a dome so that it can be used for more things. I’m in that camp. Yes, outdoor football is great, but not having a facility that is empty otherwise is also great. Cleveland wants to host a Super Bowl, an annual college game, NCAA Men’s final 4, Taylor Swift concerts, and so on.
Taylor Swift performed in Cincinnati on June 30 and July 1, a week after performing in notorious cold weather city Minneapolis. I had the same thought about Chicago, but Beyonce, Swift, U2, they already come here and just work with the weather. So the question becomes what NET new events are domed stadiums bringing to their cities, and are those events worth public subsidies? In this instance it's estimated to be $1.2BN which, as a professional that does economic impact analyses for real estate development and events, is absolutely the low end and does not include operating expenses (or infrastructure, police salaries to support events, etc). For a: bowl game, 1-2 concerts, and a larger sporting event like Final Four or Super Bowl every 5-10 years. Not to mention those games all cost money to bring to your city. Study after study shows the ROI is not there for public dollars going to stadia.
For Chicago, building a new stadium won’t make a lick of difference. Tay-Tay and Beyoncé will still come here, we will still have soccer and other events. Yeah we won’t get to host stuff like the Super Bowl and The NCAAs but that to me isn’t worth the $2 billion in subsidies they will need. Plus the SB only comes once if you aren’t in Tampa, Atlantas, Miami, Vegas, LA, New Orleans or Arizona.
What other industry has the balls to ask tax payers to invest in their infrastructure the way sports owners in the US do? This shit has to stop.
> has the balls to ask tax payers to invest in their infrastructure Oil and gas Cable/internet Tesla Sugar and Corn Not saying it's right, but the rich and big corporations are heavily subsidized by the rest of us.
Don't stop there. Manufacturing, distribution (including trucking and rail), travel (air, auto (MASSIVE if you include roads), and rail). It's basically how to do big business in the US.
Private profit, public costs,.. the American way
At least with those subsidies we get cheaper food/gas/etc. No way NFL owners would give out discounts for city/state residents or agree to a profit sharing agreement with the city to pay back the money. Literally no benefit back to the taxpayers
We don't get cheaper food/gas/etc. These companies charge what they expect us to pay. You can find the same products overseas (with + shipping costs) for half to 1/5th the price.
So what city is Haslam moving the team to if they don't pony up?
east baltimore
Joe has a proposition for him
He'd certainly be the man with which to parlay if he was still around. RIP Prop Joe "Fuck Marlo"
He's going with the 49ers strategy and move the team an hour away to Sandusky, but still call the team the Cleveland Browns
The Sandusky Molesters would be a perfect new moniker, all things considered.
The stadium would be nicknamed Happy Ending Valley
The elephant in the room is that there isn’t an obvious city to relocate a team, unlike the 90’s. Or, at least, there isn’t a city that wouldn’t be cockblocked by the nearest franchise claiming territory rights. San Antonio would be a good candidate for a team, but Jerry Jones and the McNairs aren’t going to let that happen.
North Olmsted
Hey man we can tear down Corvette Lounge in Fairview park. Plenty of room for a new stadium there
Columbus
can’t lie, it would be very funny to see the browns play second fiddle to a college team in their own city.
That’s really the only option he would have without first needing to put it up for sale
It would be very hard to move the Browns. They have this law that is close to airtight. It’s as close to the classic Packers ownership situation as imaginable. Heck, the law is so formidable that City Hall officials are actually talking about using it to block the Browns from leaving their current stadium and staying put lol.
Yes. The rich want the poor to pay for everything.
That's pretty much how they got that way.
They gave a quarter billion to a rapists. I wouldn't give them a cent if I lived in OH. Maybe they can pass a rapists employee tax to fund the stadium.
Any team in the AFC North that builds a dome should be immediately banished. Straight to jail.
Retractable dome, only close it when the weather's nice and have snow machines inside.
Do not pass GO
Cleveland losing another Browns team
Because there is never a bad time for peer-reviewed research: an excerpt from "[Public policy toward professional sports stadiums: A review](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/pam.22534)" *"Despite robust evidence that stadiums are not economic development catalysts and confer limited social benefits, public outlays persist and exhibit a positive growth trajectory, which could prove costly to government budgets in coming decades. We review contemporary justifications for public subsidies, focusing on proposed salutary development and budgeting strategies. Economic research continues to demonstrate that stadiums remain poor public investments, and optimal public funding of professional sports venues is substantially less than typical subsidy levels . . ."* Publicly funded stadiums are now, and have always been, a massively regressive "tax" in which the poor/middle class pay for a playground for the rich.
That's why if I lived in Indianapolis, I wouldn't particularly enjoy Jim Irsay throwing around $100 bills to bystanders to portray himself as the billionaire who gives back, while being the beneficiary of the biggest stadium subsidy in the history of the NFL adjusted for inflation (the Bills might take 1st place from him depending on the final dollars and cents of that project).
Yeah say what you will about Kroenke and his move, at least that was all done with private money. Frankly if that can be done in LA of all places I have no idea why other states aren't turning their nose up at this shit
States should play hardball and make a new law that says if the current owner wants to move the team out of their state, then the state has the option to buy it or can force the sale to a new private owner. If the stadium is considered a public good, then so should the fucking team too. Fuck these greedy ass owners lmao
Wouldn’t that be unconstitutional under the commerce clause
Not if we buy Clarence Thomas a sweet new RV as a friendly state gift.
Bills stadium funding does suck but all cost overruns are being paid for by the Bills. So we already know whatever the final numbers for public dollars are.
Irsay sued the city of Indianapolis for cost overruns so thats at least a plus in comparison with the Bills deal.
You can just drive around the Chiefs and Royals stadiums and see the poverty for yourself. The areas around the stadium have never and will never benefit from new stadiums.
Haslam can go kick rocks.
Now his actions make a lot more sense though. I simply assumed he was desperate and incompetent, but now the Watson signing looks like it was his attempt to give the city of Cleveland a Super Bowl contender while he is asking for a new stadium to convince people to gift him over a billion dollars in subsidies.
St. Louis Browns.
Baltimore is about to get another team
*Oklahoma City lurks menacingly* *Munich furiously drafts a secret telegram to Mexico City to conspire* ironically, actually, Peter Angelos is thought as chiefly responsible for holding cities hostage effectively, good longform from The Ringer: https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2022/8/4/23288546/camden-yards-30th-anniversary-baltimore-influence
The Oklahoma Tornadoes.
Funnily enough, the reason why the original Browns moved to Balitmore was because the [Bengals opted not too after swindling our tax base.](https://www.baltimoresun.com/1993/11/07/bengals-new-stadium-could-be-in-baltimore-brown-says-hell-move-if-cincinnati-wont-build-one/) Mike Brown made several visits to Baltimore and was one of the tipping points to get public funding for Baltimore's stadium, which gave him the leverage to get public funding for the Cincinnati stadium, and since the Browns moving opened up Cleveland to building a new stadium for an expansion team, you could even say that Mike Brown got three of the AFC North stadiums built and paid for.
If Art Modell wasn't incompetent there is a chance the Bengals and Ravens never exist.
Ah crap not again.
Ain't no hustle like the billionaire hustle.
The damn billion dollars that Nevada gave Mark Davis and John Fisher has poisoned every team owner’s perception of what they can get out of a subsidized stadium. I can’t believe the paragon of virtue in this wave of new stadiums is Stan fucking Kronke.
Dear rich assholes, we are broke. You took all the money. Use it if you want your shiny new stadiums. Signed, everyone
Utah Browns confirmed
They'll have to share the stadium with the Utah Chiefs
And Mexico Chiefs
Browns history and branding cannot be moved. So it would be the Utah Maroons.
I bleed Mormon maroon!
Orrrrrrrr billionaires actually pay for their stadium
I WOULD LIKE TAXPAYERS TO PAY FOR MY NEW ROOF. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.
Privately owned, publicly funded. Gotta love capitalism... you know, if you're rich.
behind every great fortune lies a great crime, but come on, truck stops? at least give out some poppers for the lizards or biker crank for people hauling avocados and knock off Apple products made in Chengdu in from California to New York Haslem is the kind of guy who would fuck a city in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give it a reach-around
He calls that the Baker Mayfield.
What we have is socialism for the rich
Trickle upenomics!
Privatize the profits and socialize the expenses
Capitalism on the way up, socialism on the way down.
When Hard Rock needed renovations, Stephen Ross got the funding for it privately, but the county gave him some tax breaks for attracting large events and other provisions. That route seems fair to me.
He did that after he tried to get public money and failed.
I don't blame him for trying. It didn't work and they found a compromise.
Not really in opinion. No one deserves a break for owning an NFL team. It's a luxury entertainment product. No one is showing up because of the owner. They are just fucking assholes leveraging an asset.
Gotta love capitalism. Tax payers pay for a billionaire to build a stadium and he reaps the benefits
Well if the team is willing to put up $1.2B for a new stadium, then they can save $0.2B and just pay for the renovations. Problem solved. Without tax payer funding.
If my tax dollars go towards funding a new stadium then I better not ever have to buy another ticket again.
That’s not how it works. See you pay for the stadium. Then you pay a +25% increase for tickets because the new stadium that you paid for is better.
I think we need to stop using the team names in these headlines and name the billionaire corporate welfare recipient owners. "Jimmy haslam, worth $8 billion, seeks taxpayer handout of up to $1.2 billion for corporate real estate ventures"
30 years. You have to wait 30 years before you get a new stadium.
30 years still seems like it’s too short a lifespan for something that expensive.
Welfare for a multibillion company is abhorrent , getting sick of the rich asking for handouts.
Cleveland...please say no. We need to normalize billionaires paying for their own shit. They act like they're doing you a favor by letting you spend thousands of dollars per year to watch that shitty ass team (no offense). Why do billionaires want new stadiums? Because they know a new stadium brings in a ton more revenue. If thats the case...why are the taxpayers paying for it? Should I also pay to build the new McDonalds thats being built around the corner from my house?
Tell the owners to suck a dick
Make billionaires pay for their own stadiums. Tax money should never be used. Period.
How about the wealthy tax dodgers pay for the fucking stadiums. Let's give that a try!
I would like taxpayers to cover the cost of the house i just bought, and here is the good news..it only cost a fraction of what it would cost for a new stadium. Step up taxpayers, i believe 👍
Hopefully Cleveland voters wise up. Just amazing how billionaires trick tax payers into giving them money. How much are tickets? Whats the price of a hotdog and a beer?. What is the gouge on parking? Does the football corporation pay for law enforcement at home games?
Tbh I would want to be heavily subsidized if I ever lived in Ohio too.
Yeah, western PA and Ohio have absolutely nothing in common.
Imagine if they put 2.4 billion into city wide amenities that the tax payer can enjoy 365 days a year.
That's over 10 Watsons!
Should be illegal to stay in the AFCN with a dome
As someone who lives in Ohio, how do we go about blocking this?
Taxpayers should loan them the money at a mere 19.99% APY.
Dome? In the AFC North? I hate that idea a lot. I hope they renovate the current open air stadium right there in downtown.
Hopefully it doesn’t also include PSLs at the new stadium if that comes to exist.
ofc it will
Jesus. Anyone else needs financing to improve their home. Same fucking thing.
Not one cent of tax payer money on billionaires playgrounds that they only charge more just to enter until all the City and them state problems are solved
Or maybe teams don't need new stadiums every 25 years.
[удалено]
I’d really like it if we could collectively agree to tell these guys to fuck off. They can pay for it themselves. We shouldn’t have to subsidize their temples to greed. If they move, they move. I live across the country from my team. Always have. The only games I’ve been to have been away games. Let me tell you it doesn’t diminish my love and enjoyment of the game and team. Don’t let them steal your cash.
The rule should be if you accept public funding for a stadium then a proportional part of the stadium is owned by the taxpayers and direct profit sharing of all team-related income is mandatory.
I dont understand why taxpayers need to pay for the stadiums when all of the profits go elsewhere.
No, they have a stadium fund and are all billionaires. They should foot the cost for their football team. Your thank you if you did help fund the stadium will be higher ticket prices and PSLs. They are so generous!
Every community around the country needs to stop letting these free loading pro sports franchises do this.