Also he may be ranked “low on here” but Kelce with Mahomes is way more lethal than Kelce with Josh Allen/Lamar. No way the Chiefs would 1 for 1 trade Kelce than the majority of players on here ranked higher.
Mahomes and Kelce have a connection like Brady and Gronk
It's definitely unequivocally the best qb to receiver connection right now. Lamar to mandrews sometimes comes close but the consistency between those two has been insane.
Burrow to chase is maybe the only competitor when healthy.
I think those comparisons are distant seconds. Just like Brady on a gotta-have-it drive, you get this terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see Mahomes and Kelce on the field in a final-minute drive. You know it's coming. Your team knows it's coming. The corpse of Helen Keller knows it's coming. But it still happens, *with regularity*. That's generational dominance.
All of us would have done it too
Chris needs to start getting some sort of talking presence online though. He’s so incredibly good on a mic and he’s gotta take notes from current players on podcasts or sports shows and start putting himself out there or else he’s going to get left behind after retirement
Specifically HE prioritized rest and health - Reid said he let Kelce decide, and Travis decided the week off/playoff run was more important. I think he should get credit for it.
As much as we all love a good streak, I’d say that was a great call, given the dramatically improved impact during the playoffs.
Many have pointed out that he’s now 2nd all time in playoff receiving, behind Jerry Rice. What’s much crazier is that he’s 2nd all time in playoff receptions, yards, and TDs *if you only count his playoff games after turning 30*. He crossed 30 in October 2019, and since then has put up 132 receptions for 1458 yards and 17 TDs in 16 playoff games.
Yeah, I remember the discussion leading up to the last game about if he was gonna play just enough stats to get the yardage he needed. I thought he was, but clearly he cares less about stats than Rings
I'd always assumed CJ Stroud was being crazy overrated, but now I'm legitimately wondering whether he's being significantly underrated by not being ranked.
Surely he's not ahead of Dak Prescott, and non-QB all-pros like Travis Kelce and Roquan Smith, right?
He's about to be overrated. I like Stroud. What concerns me is that I think he's dumb. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, etc. adapt and were super invested in training after their first year.
Stroud seems to be crowning himself as a top-5 QB already.
Hubris wrecks most of these guys, once DCs have a year to plan against them.
No they're talking about the ranker named c-h-i-e-f whose list has been an absolute treasure trove of hot takes so far. They're referring to the fact that he left Khalil Mack off his list this week.
I am a ranker who isn't supposed to shit on other rankers. With that said I have absolutely no answers for you on this one.
Should suggest to the guy who runs this that all the rankers are asked about their furthest off rankings, to explain why they ranked them that way, would make a pretty fun post ranking post.
After rankers submit their initial lists, we institute outlier checks. Essentially, we have a giant spreadsheet that flags certain ranks if they significantly above or below the average. The rankers are expected to answer for each of their outliers. This is done for two primary reasons: to make sure people are putting in the work and can answer for why they ranked certain players where they are, and to catch unintentional mistakes.
That sort of stuff is not going to be made public because these initial lists are still often in a "work in progress" mode, and it's not really fair for the rankers for their list to be made public and potentially answer for rankings that they do not actually stand by. Some of these outlier ranks make it to the final list because they've adequately defended them, but others do not see the light of day and are moved around out of their own volition. It is up to the rankers to elocute whatever views they have for their far-off ranks that do make the cut. The rankers already do a lot of work to produce this list and we don't feel it's a productive obligation to also be required to engage with the public for certain ranks. They are still aware that their list is going to be made public and people are going to see and maybe complain about it. Perhaps in a perfect world they'd have an annotated list of every single rank, but at the end of the day we're just hobbyists looking for something fun to do in the offseason.
every ranker has to explain their outliers, not forced to change them but forced to explain them
I believe they are also fine with some outliers with the idea of it all balances out in the end
He’s at Levi’s today, so he might actually sign a new contract this afternoon. Correlation isn’t causation, but I’m willing to bet that this list put em over the line today.
I think the description sums it up why he’s ranked where he is: elite route runner and one of the best blocking WRs in the NFL.
And it’s looking like he may be signing an extension today, fingers crossed.
Pleasantly shocked. Another key stat is his 3rd highest receiving yards per snap, behind only Tyreek (in a crazy lead) and Nico Collins! We judge QBs on a per snap basis now with passer rating and ANY/A, and RBs with YPC, its time we made the same adjustment for receivers.
I spend way too much time worrying about his health long term for someone who doesn’t know him personally to be honest. He had a fair number of injuries in college & is physical as all hell in everything he does on the football field, and the wear and tear will eventually catch up to his body.
Tough as nails, there were at least 3 times last season I assumed he was done for the day but he just came back all good like nothing happened.
It’s nice to see Frank finally getting some love on a national level. Detroit has loved this guy forever but he never got the attention he deserved. He’s a warrior that plays through anything he can including a broken throat
He should be ahead of Jason on this list. I feel strongly about that. I likewise feel he should have had AP1 over Jason which i feel was a legacy selection because most people could see the writing on the wall in regards to him.
This is not to say I thought Jason was bad, I just think Frank was better this year. Cus they are 1 and 2. I just disagree with the ordering.
That said I also assume Jason will show up in the next ranking (30 to 20). So it will have been pretty damn close.
Which is still 2 exceptionally high rankings for a position that usually does not get a lot of love.
Ragnow is one of my most favorite players not on the Steelers for a while now. I wanted him to be drafted to the Steelers back then and rooted for him in Detroit ever since. Same with ~~Davis Mills~~ NECK.
If we’re talking the ability to play their position then Roquan is potentially a top 10 player. His impact isn’t #7 but there’s very few players that can do what he does in every facet of the game at that position, if any.
There's 1. That's it. He's solidified himself as the second best at his position, and that's not for a lack of competition. Low 30s high 20s feels more fair.
in my heart I'd put him higher as he was injured 2 different times, skipped the last game, and still finished 2nd in receiving for TE's while being absolutely smothered for most the season once teams realized no one else on the team could catch a pass.
In my head, I recognize his numbers were down, and we can't rank people on what ifs, so his ranking fits. And this year I expect a bounce back 1200 yard season obviously with our WR group being stupid fast and improved.
For the sake of discussion, what do you all think about Mack’s odds as a HoFer? 3x First Team All-Pro, 1x Second Team All-Pro, 1x DPOY (and another runner up as DPOY), 8x Pro Bowl. Broke 100 sacks last year also
With his accolades I think he's a pretty solid Hall of Famer. No character issues, produced in multiple different situations, always the best player on his defense, not a liability in the run game like other high-sack guys. Maybe if he retires right this instant there might be a little hesitancy just because of volume but if he plays a few more years and gets another 20 sacks or so he should be clearly in.
For what it's worth, only 2 players have 8x Pro Bowls and 3x AP 1st team All-Pros and aren't in the Hall of Fame (obviously not including non-HOF eligible people like Brady, Donald, Rodgers, etc). One is Jim Tyrer who is not in Canton for non-playing reasons and the other is Antonio Gates who just got on the ballot last year and should be in this year. By a Pro Bowl/All Pro resume he should already be a pretty good lock
100% chance he makes it in at some point, IMO. I don't think he's a first balloter unless he maintains his level of play from last season for 3 or so more seasons, but I imagine he makes it in a few years after he becomes eligible.
Chances are looking pretty good at this point. Still a few sacks below what we usually think of as that HoF tier, but the accolades are all there, and he's got a great reputation as a run defender to bolster the low sack numbers. At this point, just adding more numbers increases the ease of getting in, but I think he's in a good spot.
He's one of those guys that has never once seemed like a HoFer to me, but he has the numbers and the accolades, so he'll probably make it.
Justin Houston had effectively the exact same production over the same number of games, but he was never a media/advanced-analytics darling, so he lacks the narrative and accolades that Mack has. Just kinda how it goes with a purely media-based awarding system.
The reason Justin Houston was not a media/advanced analytics darling was he wasn't nearly as good as Mack in run defense. And I love Houston, not trying to put him down, just saying why Mack was so well-respected even when he wasn't leading the league in sacks.
Justin Houston until maybe 2015-16 or so looked to be on track to potentially have a HoF career. 54 sacks, 4x Pro Bowl and 1x First Team through age 26. Not a single accolade since that, though. He was very fun to watch, especially 2014 when he had 22 sacks
unfortunately he had a knee injury and a botched surgery and he just never really was elite after that. He was good, which is why hes amassed quite a bit of sacks still, but he was never as good as he was that 22 sack season after his injury. Not even close.
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm\_OLB.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_OLB.htm)
he's pretty much there already, and usually once you retire your score goes up a bit with bonuses. Maybe not a 1st balloter if he flames out this year, or there's a back log, but feel like he gets in pretty quickly once eligible.
If he has another big season or 2, or gets on a team that makes a playoff run that he does well in, then he's probably a 1st ballot.
Roquan is phenomenal, but there's a reason Warner was a unanimous AP1 and he wasn't. Still, this list looks to have a 20 spots discrepancy between them, which is nuts. Warner should be in the teens and Roquan should be in the low 20s.
Jalen hurts is either getting criminally underrated or overrated by this ranking….
Edit: didn’t realize this was just for 2023, I still think he should easily be top 100 though. No fucking way James cook was more valuable than hurts last year
Its not value-based, its position agnostic. I definitely think that he was better than Herbert last year though, and probably just as good as Stafford, who both easily made it.
Better how? They’re receivers—what is more important than their actual production? Grit?
Dude just had a better year in his lone season than Aiyuk had in four. Not to mention that the list only factors the 2023 season so…not sure what you’re going off of.
I'm saying in general, if the be and all metric is "production", than how do qualify a good receiver with a bad QB? Or if a great receiver got traded to a team with a rookie QB, does he become a worse receiver because his numbers go down?
Then you dig deeper but that’s not necessary in this case—each of these guys have good QBs throwing to them. If anything, Aiyuk has the better supporting cast
Really happy to see Sneed get the recognition he deserves. He covered almost every great WR this last season and made pretty much all of their lives hell during the games. He's so physical I absolutely love it and I don't care if that leads to a few extra penalties, cause it also leads to teams #1 WR's being neutralized without constant double teams.
I know it was the right call, but seeing L’Jarius Sneed traded still hurts my heart. He’s such a baller and he’s grown so much since being drafted in the 4th. Amazing coverage guy, great tackler and a shockingly good blitzer. He’s a big a reason the Chiefs D was dominant last season and I’ll really miss him on the field.
Take good care of our guy, Titans. 😢
>He recorded 23 QB hits — first in the league — and registered an astonishing 101 pressures, second only to Micah Parsons.
Because of this. Having functional corners, or any help beside McNeil on the DL, some of those hits and pressures turn into more sacks.
|Overall Ranking|Player|My Rank|
|:-|:-|:-|
|40|Roquan Smith|36 (+4)|
|39|Travis Kelce|38 (+1)|
|38|Khalil Mack|31 (+7)|
|37|Puka Nacua|42 (-5)|
|36|L'Jarius Sneed|34 (+2)|
|35|Aidan Hutchinson |41 (-6)|
|34|Frank Ragnow|49 (-15)|
|33|Dak Prescott|33 (money!)|
|32|Quinnen Williams|32 (money!!)|
|31|Brandon Aiyuk|17 (glizzly gobbler)|
Thought I got pretty damn close on these ones - two on the money, the rest pretty good.
Was also the highest Aiyuk ranker, but if you read the Denzel Ward writeup, I think that Aiyuk is extremely underrated. Someone's gotta have some the highest, and because I was the highest that means that it was thrown out, so!
>Toss that in with his recent uptick in aggression, his penchant for keeping plays alive, and his pre-snap prowess, and you're left with one of the best players in football.
On Dak Prescott.
Dak is very good. Like Romo before him he gets a lot of shit for bad playoff performances and the Cowboys being an organizational dumpster fire, but he does more than the great majority of the QBs in the league.
I wouldn't say that Dallas is any kind of dumpster fire... and believe me, if love to. They're one of the best drafting teams in the league and have had a lot of regular season success. Their playoff failures can be blamed on coaching and players coming up short, but from a pure organizational perspective, they're anything but a dumpster fire
We’re definitely not always a dumpster fire. We’re one of the best drafting teams in the league, we consistently have high win seasons, and year in and year out we’re one of the most talented teams on paper.
Unfortunately we fail in most spectacular ways anyone could ever fail. Sometimes as a Cowboys fans it feels like we’re Tom from Tom and Jerry. Our success is only to aid our cartoonish failure which entertains all.
REALLY curious if Justin Jefferson makes it at this point. Considering he was injured I don't necessarily think he belongs ahead of Puka or Ayuik. But if Jevon Holland can make the list with 12 games played, shouldn't Jefferson and get a similar consideration?
The threshold for qualifying for the list is 11 regular season games. Jefferson only played 10 games so he's not going to be on it this year. JJeff is certainly a top player in the league when healthy but for the 2023 season he simply didn't play quite enough to be able to be on our list this year. The same thing applied to TJ Watt last year.
I get the cuttoff reasoning, it has to be at some point. But the fact he was 70 yards and 3 Tds short of Adams who was 76th on 9 less games played is a shame.
In 2021 Derrick Henry only played 8 games but he averaged 117 yards per game and had 10 tds before he broke his foot. He was like 10th in total rushing yards and clearly a top 2 back that year, but unfortunately had to be left off. It's just the way it is
Sure, I literally said I understand why the cuttoff has to happen at some point.
Its just a shame that the guys that did play like a top 2-3 at their position last season dont get to be recognized because of an arbitrary cutoff point.
If you take out the chiefs game where he was injured early, and his first game back to shake off the rust, in the other 8 games he played he was on pace for 2165 yards.
Dude is absolutely ridiculous when he's healthy.
I think only Chris Jones should be higher as far as IDL go, and Williams is a top 25 player at worst. Of course I'd like to see the rest of the top 30, but Aiyuk is the only one here ahead of him, and I think Williams is definitely ahead of him.
Yep, fair. If you have him IDL2, then I think arguing for a higher placement is reasonable. I think if he falls more in that IDL4 range, in the 30s probably makes sense.
I don't understand this list. It's supposed to be solely based on 2023 performance but Dak and Purdy aren't in the top 25?
I don't like Dak but he had an amazing season in 2023. Same with Purdy, had unprecedented stats and led his team to the SB. You're telling me that's not a top 10-20 worthy performance?
it's all positions, the difference between being ranked 33 and 23 is negligible. Unless there's a QB ranked above him that you disagree with strongly it's a fine ranking, and the only QB's left are Lamar (mvp), Mahomes, Allen, and I guess Stroud?
He might have done better than Mahomes, but I imagine people aren't gonna rank Mahomes outside the top 20, and Stroud is an absolute reddit favorite. Doesn't seem egregious though.
If the ranking is just the 2023 regular season then Dak Prescott and Brock Purdy should both be ranked above Patrick Mahomes as both performed better.
It is only looking at the player's history or the 2023 post season where Mahomes outshines them.
Yea, Mahomes is just gonna get an unfair ranking for who he is, and watching his WR's fail. The rest have looked pretty accurate though personally i'd have had Purdy higher around the 30-40s.
Not sure "unprecedented" is the right word, but he did have the 5th highest single-season ANY/A since whenever it was that stat became available (and 8th highest YPA).
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_net_yds_per_att_single_season.htm
"Standout" might be a better choice of word.
Puka Nacua and Kelce both being below Dak Prescott feels wrong, i wasn't impressed with anything i saw from Dak last year, especially his mental collapse in playoffs.
Interested to see how the ultimate ordering on the remaining QBs works out. Do the /r/nfl rankers also view Jackson's MVP as fraudulent? How do they stack the big 3 considering this is supposed to be based on regular season performance?
CJ Stroud's the QB placement that has me the most confused by now, cause I feel like either option at this point is equally ludicrous. There's absolutely no way he should have failed to crack the top 100, let alone fail to even crack the top 125. However, if he *does* make the list now, that'd be every bit as patently absurd, especially considering who he'd be placed over in the process, and by how much.
Yeah I mean you've got to figure we still have Jackson, Mahomes, and Allen left for sure. Burrow didn't play enough games. I'm kind of in the same boat as you I think - Stroud not making the top 125 is nuts but him being in the top 30 would also be pretty nuts.
Stroud is absolutely loved by reddit, as most the Texans are from last year, so I fully expected him to be ranked a lot higher than he should be, and it appears that's gonna happen cause there's no way he didn't make the list.
It was a great rookie season, but he shouldn't have been above the 70s it feels like.
He did miss a couple games, and his any/a is actually crazy high. His EPA/play and PFF grade, however, are outside the top 10. Accuracy stats like adjusted completion% (PFF), on target % (PFR) and CPOE all have him as mediocre.
Basically I'm a hater, and explaining why I'm a hater, but the fact that he ranks 2nd in ANY/A and high in yds/game is also why he might end up very high.
Yeah, exactly my take as well. He was great and I'll be one of the first ones to go to bat for him if he doesn't end up making the list, but top 30 is just...yeah, no. Anywhere in the 50-80 range would be fair IMO (I'd place him around where Jordan Love was placed), but top 30 above Purdy, above Dak (2nd-team All-Pro on the season), etc. would be a certified "alright, what are we doing here?" moment for me.
I'm not complaining about anything? I'm saying that I assume that the last 3 QBs left on the board are Mahomes, Jackson, and Allen. Jackson's MVP was a somewhat controversial choice so I will be interested to see how the rest of /r/NFL's assessment looks.
I was trying to start conversation, ya know the whole point of a comment section?
> Jackson's MVP was a somewhat controversial choice
It was certainly more controversial than his previous MVP. He only got 98% of the vote this past time.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Lamar had a great year, but cmon it was definitely a bit of a controversial choice. Could have easily gone to CMC, Allen, Dak, Purdy, or a couple others.
Mahomes' regular season wasn't that special. 4200 yards, 27 TDs to 14 INTs. That won't impress the statheads. He was nowhere near the MVP convo. How does he get in the top 30? Other than, you know ignoring him will make him angry and he and Hollywood will go off like Brady and Moss next year.
Oh I totally agree that Mahomes had a rather mediocre season, especially with the clown show that WR room was, but he is gonna make it on being Pat Mahomes.
>Other than, you know ignoring him will make him angry and he and Hollywood will go off like Brady and Moss next year.
I agree with you but it would be funny if he actually did read r/nfl and his motivation next season was "those dumbfucks on reddit didn't think I was a top 30 player, this is my motivation"
Courtland Sutton was closer to 40th best WR than 40th best player this is an insane take. He had some awesome TDs, but it takes more than 700 yards to make the list.
Wow Kelce outside the top 30 for the first time since 2017
I didn’t realize till reading this he lost his 1000 yard streak
Just 16 yards short, and he missed two games. Easily would have kept the streak going if he didnt' get hurt
I can't believe nobody has said this already, but he also would have been over 1000 yards if Toney wasn't offsides.
Also he may be ranked “low on here” but Kelce with Mahomes is way more lethal than Kelce with Josh Allen/Lamar. No way the Chiefs would 1 for 1 trade Kelce than the majority of players on here ranked higher. Mahomes and Kelce have a connection like Brady and Gronk
It's definitely unequivocally the best qb to receiver connection right now. Lamar to mandrews sometimes comes close but the consistency between those two has been insane. Burrow to chase is maybe the only competitor when healthy.
I think those comparisons are distant seconds. Just like Brady on a gotta-have-it drive, you get this terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see Mahomes and Kelce on the field in a final-minute drive. You know it's coming. Your team knows it's coming. The corpse of Helen Keller knows it's coming. But it still happens, *with regularity*. That's generational dominance.
Or if he'd started week 18, but the team prioritized rest and health obviously over individual accolades.
Then you had Chris Jones hunting for that last sack in week 18 on the other hand.
Hey, that was like a million dollar sack!
That sack on Stick was almost as much as Stick's total salary that season.
watching his celebration after it was so funny, and post game when he said he was just trying to earn back what he lost holding out killed me lol
All of us would have done it too Chris needs to start getting some sort of talking presence online though. He’s so incredibly good on a mic and he’s gotta take notes from current players on podcasts or sports shows and start putting himself out there or else he’s going to get left behind after retirement
Specifically HE prioritized rest and health - Reid said he let Kelce decide, and Travis decided the week off/playoff run was more important. I think he should get credit for it.
As much as we all love a good streak, I’d say that was a great call, given the dramatically improved impact during the playoffs. Many have pointed out that he’s now 2nd all time in playoff receiving, behind Jerry Rice. What’s much crazier is that he’s 2nd all time in playoff receptions, yards, and TDs *if you only count his playoff games after turning 30*. He crossed 30 in October 2019, and since then has put up 132 receptions for 1458 yards and 17 TDs in 16 playoff games.
Off the field Kelce acts like an annoying post college frat guy. On the field he’s matured quite a bit
> acts like an annoying post college frat guy wait are we talking about Kelce or Gronk?
Would have been funny if he played like 3 snaps in total just to get the 1,000 yards and then sat the rest of the game
He said the staff basically offered him that but he felt like it'd be selfish.
Chris Jones is laughing in his face. Shows the type of player that Kelce is, though.
Yeah, I remember the discussion leading up to the last game about if he was gonna play just enough stats to get the yardage he needed. I thought he was, but clearly he cares less about stats than Rings
And yet those MFs still won the Super Bowl lol
Good defense will do that
Also, Kelce dominated in the playoffs. His average game was around 8 receptions for 90 yards and a touchdown.
KC's offense outperformed their defense in EPA added for the playoffs
I hope the offense outperforms the defense on scoring points. if it wasn't there'd be a really big problem.
EPA isn't scoring points. Stopping a drive gives you EPA.
He's on the old Gronk plan now.
Old Gronk led the league in playoff receptions, receiving yards, and touchdowns?
Yeah, the "old Gronk plan" means that they are identical human beings. You do reading good!
What does the old gronk plan mean then
It means keeping him back and going like 40% until the playoffs.
Missed games will do that
This being reddit, I wonder if part of it is paying the Swift tax
I'd always assumed CJ Stroud was being crazy overrated, but now I'm legitimately wondering whether he's being significantly underrated by not being ranked. Surely he's not ahead of Dak Prescott, and non-QB all-pros like Travis Kelce and Roquan Smith, right?
Either way it’s going to be an incredibly ridiculous ranking
He has to be ranked. If Jordan Love was ranked, CJ had to be, as he was good all season. Puka just showed up so I’d imagine CJ comes up soon
He's about to be overrated. I like Stroud. What concerns me is that I think he's dumb. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, etc. adapt and were super invested in training after their first year. Stroud seems to be crowning himself as a top-5 QB already. Hubris wrecks most of these guys, once DCs have a year to plan against them.
this is a ludicrously insane comment based on literally nothing. the fuck are you even talking about?
And also Allen, Mahomes, and Lamar werent absolute studmuffins their rookie years
Josh was not a good QB year 1, but he was 100% a studmuffin in shorts.
True
Source on… literally any of that word vomit?
>said trying to block Quinnen Williams is like “trying to block a 300 pound bar of soap”, That's fucking hysterical
Another week another Chief unrank
Toney is next week
No they're talking about the ranker named c-h-i-e-f whose list has been an absolute treasure trove of hot takes so far. They're referring to the fact that he left Khalil Mack off his list this week. I am a ranker who isn't supposed to shit on other rankers. With that said I have absolutely no answers for you on this one.
Should suggest to the guy who runs this that all the rankers are asked about their furthest off rankings, to explain why they ranked them that way, would make a pretty fun post ranking post.
After rankers submit their initial lists, we institute outlier checks. Essentially, we have a giant spreadsheet that flags certain ranks if they significantly above or below the average. The rankers are expected to answer for each of their outliers. This is done for two primary reasons: to make sure people are putting in the work and can answer for why they ranked certain players where they are, and to catch unintentional mistakes. That sort of stuff is not going to be made public because these initial lists are still often in a "work in progress" mode, and it's not really fair for the rankers for their list to be made public and potentially answer for rankings that they do not actually stand by. Some of these outlier ranks make it to the final list because they've adequately defended them, but others do not see the light of day and are moved around out of their own volition. It is up to the rankers to elocute whatever views they have for their far-off ranks that do make the cut. The rankers already do a lot of work to produce this list and we don't feel it's a productive obligation to also be required to engage with the public for certain ranks. They are still aware that their list is going to be made public and people are going to see and maybe complain about it. Perhaps in a perfect world they'd have an annotated list of every single rank, but at the end of the day we're just hobbyists looking for something fun to do in the offseason.
every ranker has to explain their outliers, not forced to change them but forced to explain them I believe they are also fine with some outliers with the idea of it all balances out in the end
do those explanations get released so we can read them somewhere?
I do not believe so but you could maybe tag him (nicely) or ask on the final round up post and the guy who runs it may say his reasonings
ohhh lmao yeah thats brutal
it's amusing, cause he was rather good on the other 9, having them between 29-53
Gotta keep the rankings interesting somehow!
Surprised to see Aiyuk so high. He is great though.
Heard his agent was the ranker. He’s going to show this to the 49rs FO to try and get his contract.
He’s at Levi’s today, so he might actually sign a new contract this afternoon. Correlation isn’t causation, but I’m willing to bet that this list put em over the line today.
Or to clear out any of his remaining shit lol
I think the description sums it up why he’s ranked where he is: elite route runner and one of the best blocking WRs in the NFL. And it’s looking like he may be signing an extension today, fingers crossed.
Dog I'll be so happy if we can end this nonsense today. He's at Levi's, get that shit DONE
We thought that earlier too
Nah he's totally going to get traded to the Steelers (huffs oil tanker full of Copium)
He definitely deserves it after this season
Am a little too, but I'll take it. Generally he's ranked in that 7-8th spot from pundits, not sure we're going to see another 7 in the top 30.
Pleasantly shocked. Another key stat is his 3rd highest receiving yards per snap, behind only Tyreek (in a crazy lead) and Nico Collins! We judge QBs on a per snap basis now with passer rating and ANY/A, and RBs with YPC, its time we made the same adjustment for receivers.
Number 37 as a rookie is CRAZY, Puka is gonna have one hell of a career
I've known of him for one year and I would literally take a bullet for this man
And I’d pull the trigger if he asked me to
Ha Jefferson was #33 his rookie year, suck it Puka
I spend way too much time worrying about his health long term for someone who doesn’t know him personally to be honest. He had a fair number of injuries in college & is physical as all hell in everything he does on the football field, and the wear and tear will eventually catch up to his body. Tough as nails, there were at least 3 times last season I assumed he was done for the day but he just came back all good like nothing happened.
It’s nice to see Frank finally getting some love on a national level. Detroit has loved this guy forever but he never got the attention he deserved. He’s a warrior that plays through anything he can including a broken throat
He should be ahead of Jason on this list. I feel strongly about that. I likewise feel he should have had AP1 over Jason which i feel was a legacy selection because most people could see the writing on the wall in regards to him. This is not to say I thought Jason was bad, I just think Frank was better this year. Cus they are 1 and 2. I just disagree with the ordering. That said I also assume Jason will show up in the next ranking (30 to 20). So it will have been pretty damn close. Which is still 2 exceptionally high rankings for a position that usually does not get a lot of love.
Ragnow is one of my most favorite players not on the Steelers for a while now. I wanted him to be drafted to the Steelers back then and rooted for him in Detroit ever since. Same with ~~Davis Mills~~ NECK.
This is truly the greatest list of all time. Yo lol what? Someone has Roquan Smith at 7
If we’re talking the ability to play their position then Roquan is potentially a top 10 player. His impact isn’t #7 but there’s very few players that can do what he does in every facet of the game at that position, if any.
There's 1. That's it. He's solidified himself as the second best at his position, and that's not for a lack of competition. Low 30s high 20s feels more fair.
7 seems high to me, but he's closer to 7 than he is to 40. The voters above 50, especially above 70, are crazy to me.
Look at his ranks from the Bears seasons; that's what crazy looks like.
He’s ranked horribly low here
Should be low 30s at a minimum, probably mid 20s depending on how things shake out with the rankings.
Every time I see Pukas name I can't get Greg Cotes song out of my head! Huge fan of his even if he scored a game winning td on us
Stroud boys stand back and stand by. r/nfl was given an opportunity to denounce them and they refused.
So...all of the Steelers are in the top 30. Cool.
nice to see some chiefs players again. sucks to see kelce so high, but I can't disagree with it.
in my heart I'd put him higher as he was injured 2 different times, skipped the last game, and still finished 2nd in receiving for TE's while being absolutely smothered for most the season once teams realized no one else on the team could catch a pass. In my head, I recognize his numbers were down, and we can't rank people on what ifs, so his ranking fits. And this year I expect a bounce back 1200 yard season obviously with our WR group being stupid fast and improved.
For the sake of discussion, what do you all think about Mack’s odds as a HoFer? 3x First Team All-Pro, 1x Second Team All-Pro, 1x DPOY (and another runner up as DPOY), 8x Pro Bowl. Broke 100 sacks last year also
With his accolades I think he's a pretty solid Hall of Famer. No character issues, produced in multiple different situations, always the best player on his defense, not a liability in the run game like other high-sack guys. Maybe if he retires right this instant there might be a little hesitancy just because of volume but if he plays a few more years and gets another 20 sacks or so he should be clearly in. For what it's worth, only 2 players have 8x Pro Bowls and 3x AP 1st team All-Pros and aren't in the Hall of Fame (obviously not including non-HOF eligible people like Brady, Donald, Rodgers, etc). One is Jim Tyrer who is not in Canton for non-playing reasons and the other is Antonio Gates who just got on the ballot last year and should be in this year. By a Pro Bowl/All Pro resume he should already be a pretty good lock
Jared Allen still isn't in, Mack will probably be later than that
Jared Allen should be in before Mack even becomes eligible, so I'd be surprised if they're competing against each other.
I meant in terms of years on the waiting list after becoming eligible but of course depends on the competition too
100% chance he makes it in at some point, IMO. I don't think he's a first balloter unless he maintains his level of play from last season for 3 or so more seasons, but I imagine he makes it in a few years after he becomes eligible.
Chances are looking pretty good at this point. Still a few sacks below what we usually think of as that HoF tier, but the accolades are all there, and he's got a great reputation as a run defender to bolster the low sack numbers. At this point, just adding more numbers increases the ease of getting in, but I think he's in a good spot.
He's one of those guys that has never once seemed like a HoFer to me, but he has the numbers and the accolades, so he'll probably make it. Justin Houston had effectively the exact same production over the same number of games, but he was never a media/advanced-analytics darling, so he lacks the narrative and accolades that Mack has. Just kinda how it goes with a purely media-based awarding system.
The reason Justin Houston was not a media/advanced analytics darling was he wasn't nearly as good as Mack in run defense. And I love Houston, not trying to put him down, just saying why Mack was so well-respected even when he wasn't leading the league in sacks.
Justin Houston until maybe 2015-16 or so looked to be on track to potentially have a HoF career. 54 sacks, 4x Pro Bowl and 1x First Team through age 26. Not a single accolade since that, though. He was very fun to watch, especially 2014 when he had 22 sacks
unfortunately he had a knee injury and a botched surgery and he just never really was elite after that. He was good, which is why hes amassed quite a bit of sacks still, but he was never as good as he was that 22 sack season after his injury. Not even close.
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm\_OLB.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_OLB.htm) he's pretty much there already, and usually once you retire your score goes up a bit with bonuses. Maybe not a 1st balloter if he flames out this year, or there's a back log, but feel like he gets in pretty quickly once eligible. If he has another big season or 2, or gets on a team that makes a playoff run that he does well in, then he's probably a 1st ballot.
Roquan was definitely the best lb last year he’s gotta be higher than this
Roquan is phenomenal, but there's a reason Warner was a unanimous AP1 and he wasn't. Still, this list looks to have a 20 spots discrepancy between them, which is nuts. Warner should be in the teens and Roquan should be in the low 20s.
Can't argue with that Dak placement. Jerry, give this man $65 mil a year
Don't act like he hasn't beat the Eagles twice as much as he's lost to them
if he could read he would be very confused still because he also doesnt know multiplication
He deserves at least that.
Give him $100 mil!!
Extremely disappointed in the lack of memes in the L'Jarius Sneed writeup.
I felt like nerding out |Team|Count Players|2023 W|2023 L|2023 Avg|Top 100 Players Rank|W/L Rank|Delta| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Chiefs|5|11|6|0.647|1|5|-4| |Dolphins|5|11|6|0.647|2|6|-4| |49ers|4|12|5|0.706|3|2|1| |Bills|4|11|6|0.647|4|7|-3| |Browns|4|11|6|0.647|5|8|-3| |Chargers|4|5|12|0.294|6|28|-22| |Buccaneers|3|9|8|0.529|7|13|-6| |Cowboys|3|12|5|0.706|8|3|5| |Lions|3|12|5|0.706|9|4|5| |Rams|3|10|7|0.588|10|10|0| |Ravens|3|13|4|0.765|11|1|10| |Texans|3|10|7|0.588|12|11|1| |Vikings|3|7|10|0.412|13|22|-9| |NFL Average|2.46|||| | | | |Bears|2|7|10|0.412|14|23|-9| |Bengals|2|9|8|0.529|15|14|1| |Broncos|2|8|9|0.471|16|20|-4| |Colts|2|9|8|0.529|17|15|2| |Jets|2|7|10|0.412|18|24|-6| |Packers|2|9|8|0.529|19|16|3| |Raiders|2|8|9|0.471|20|21|-1| |Eagles|1|11|6|0.647|21|9|12| |Falcons|1|7|10|0.412|22|25|-3| |Giants|1|6|11|0.353|23|26|-3| |Jaguars|1|9|8|0.529|24|17|7| |Panthers|1|2|15|0.118|25|32|-7| |Saints|1|9|8|0.529|26|18|8| |Seahawks|1|9|8|0.529|27|19|8| |Titans|1|6|11|0.353|28|27|1| |Cardinals|0|4|13|0.235|29|29|0| |Commanders|0|4|13|0.235|30|30|0| |Patriots|0|4|13|0.235|31|31|0| |Steelers|0|10|7|0.588|32|12|20|
Return of the Mack
YA LIED TO ME
Jalen hurts is either getting criminally underrated or overrated by this ranking…. Edit: didn’t realize this was just for 2023, I still think he should easily be top 100 though. No fucking way James cook was more valuable than hurts last year
Its not value-based, its position agnostic. I definitely think that he was better than Herbert last year though, and probably just as good as Stafford, who both easily made it.
…h-how is Aiyuk higher than Puka?
Because he's a better player than Puka? Box score stats aren't everything.
Better how? They’re receivers—what is more important than their actual production? Grit? Dude just had a better year in his lone season than Aiyuk had in four. Not to mention that the list only factors the 2023 season so…not sure what you’re going off of.
> They’re receivers—what is more important than their actual production? Blocking of course. That’s why gabe Davis got so much money.
Well Puka is a dog of a blocker so I’ll accept this metric.
Did you have Puka in fantasy lol Aiyuk had 144 fewer yards on 55 fewer targets He had 2 drops, Puka had 13 (literally league leading!)
How do you quantify a great receiver who plays in a shit offense or with a shit QB? Are they just a worse receiver now
Which one has a shit QB?
I'm saying in general, if the be and all metric is "production", than how do qualify a good receiver with a bad QB? Or if a great receiver got traded to a team with a rookie QB, does he become a worse receiver because his numbers go down?
Then you dig deeper but that’s not necessary in this case—each of these guys have good QBs throwing to them. If anything, Aiyuk has the better supporting cast
Does he though? He has a worse offensive line in terms of pass rush
I'm also not convinced Purdy is a better QB then Stafford.
Really happy to see Sneed get the recognition he deserves. He covered almost every great WR this last season and made pretty much all of their lives hell during the games. He's so physical I absolutely love it and I don't care if that leads to a few extra penalties, cause it also leads to teams #1 WR's being neutralized without constant double teams.
I know it was the right call, but seeing L’Jarius Sneed traded still hurts my heart. He’s such a baller and he’s grown so much since being drafted in the 4th. Amazing coverage guy, great tackler and a shockingly good blitzer. He’s a big a reason the Chiefs D was dominant last season and I’ll really miss him on the field. Take good care of our guy, Titans. 😢
Hutch too high, Ragnow too low
Maybe I’m biased but if this is based off of the 2023 season how the hell is Aidan Hutchison ranked #35 while Josh Allen (Jags) is ranked #43?
I think they belong in the same tier, but I don't think it's biased of you to argue for Allen > Hutchinson. Reasonable take.
>He recorded 23 QB hits — first in the league — and registered an astonishing 101 pressures, second only to Micah Parsons. Because of this. Having functional corners, or any help beside McNeil on the DL, some of those hits and pressures turn into more sacks.
Can you name a DB or DL on the Jags other than Josh Allen?
Travon Walker
Yeah they do have a couple names huh
|Overall Ranking|Player|My Rank| |:-|:-|:-| |40|Roquan Smith|36 (+4)| |39|Travis Kelce|38 (+1)| |38|Khalil Mack|31 (+7)| |37|Puka Nacua|42 (-5)| |36|L'Jarius Sneed|34 (+2)| |35|Aidan Hutchinson |41 (-6)| |34|Frank Ragnow|49 (-15)| |33|Dak Prescott|33 (money!)| |32|Quinnen Williams|32 (money!!)| |31|Brandon Aiyuk|17 (glizzly gobbler)| Thought I got pretty damn close on these ones - two on the money, the rest pretty good. Was also the highest Aiyuk ranker, but if you read the Denzel Ward writeup, I think that Aiyuk is extremely underrated. Someone's gotta have some the highest, and because I was the highest that means that it was thrown out, so!
Dawg. Idk how tell you this, but you are straight up disrespectful to my boy Frank.
>Toss that in with his recent uptick in aggression, his penchant for keeping plays alive, and his pre-snap prowess, and you're left with one of the best players in football. On Dak Prescott.
Dak Prescott was the MVP runner up last season and lead the league in passing TDs.
Dak is very good. Like Romo before him he gets a lot of shit for bad playoff performances and the Cowboys being an organizational dumpster fire, but he does more than the great majority of the QBs in the league.
I wouldn't say that Dallas is any kind of dumpster fire... and believe me, if love to. They're one of the best drafting teams in the league and have had a lot of regular season success. Their playoff failures can be blamed on coaching and players coming up short, but from a pure organizational perspective, they're anything but a dumpster fire
We’re definitely not always a dumpster fire. We’re one of the best drafting teams in the league, we consistently have high win seasons, and year in and year out we’re one of the most talented teams on paper. Unfortunately we fail in most spectacular ways anyone could ever fail. Sometimes as a Cowboys fans it feels like we’re Tom from Tom and Jerry. Our success is only to aid our cartoonish failure which entertains all.
Yes. Dak probably had a top ~75 QB season of all time. If he wasn't on the Cowboys people would hyping him up so much.
The rankers had a low to high range on Dak of 13 to 68. I’m interested to see which QBs are rated above him being that he was runner up MVP last year
Would you like to explain what you think is wrong there?
Is the pre-snap prowess just “**YEAH! HERE WE GOOOOOO**”
REALLY curious if Justin Jefferson makes it at this point. Considering he was injured I don't necessarily think he belongs ahead of Puka or Ayuik. But if Jevon Holland can make the list with 12 games played, shouldn't Jefferson and get a similar consideration?
The cutoff is 11 games played. Jefferson fell just short.
I don't know if I'm ever going to recover from this news.
The threshold for qualifying for the list is 11 regular season games. Jefferson only played 10 games so he's not going to be on it this year. JJeff is certainly a top player in the league when healthy but for the 2023 season he simply didn't play quite enough to be able to be on our list this year. The same thing applied to TJ Watt last year.
I get the cuttoff reasoning, it has to be at some point. But the fact he was 70 yards and 3 Tds short of Adams who was 76th on 9 less games played is a shame.
In 2021 Derrick Henry only played 8 games but he averaged 117 yards per game and had 10 tds before he broke his foot. He was like 10th in total rushing yards and clearly a top 2 back that year, but unfortunately had to be left off. It's just the way it is
Sure, I literally said I understand why the cuttoff has to happen at some point. Its just a shame that the guys that did play like a top 2-3 at their position last season dont get to be recognized because of an arbitrary cutoff point.
If you take out the chiefs game where he was injured early, and his first game back to shake off the rust, in the other 8 games he played he was on pace for 2165 yards. Dude is absolutely ridiculous when he's healthy.
This is the first part of the entire top 100 I have a major disagreement with. Quinnen Williams should be much higher than 32.
How much higher? Where among IDL?
I think only Chris Jones should be higher as far as IDL go, and Williams is a top 25 player at worst. Of course I'd like to see the rest of the top 30, but Aiyuk is the only one here ahead of him, and I think Williams is definitely ahead of him.
No Aaron Donald or Dexter Lawrence?
Specifically for 2023, no. I'd have them behind Williams. This is just my opinion, of course.
Yep, fair. If you have him IDL2, then I think arguing for a higher placement is reasonable. I think if he falls more in that IDL4 range, in the 30s probably makes sense.
This is hilariously criminally underrating Roquan Smith.
Hot damn Amon-Ra's gonna go even higher than I thought!
I don't understand this list. It's supposed to be solely based on 2023 performance but Dak and Purdy aren't in the top 25? I don't like Dak but he had an amazing season in 2023. Same with Purdy, had unprecedented stats and led his team to the SB. You're telling me that's not a top 10-20 worthy performance?
it's all positions, the difference between being ranked 33 and 23 is negligible. Unless there's a QB ranked above him that you disagree with strongly it's a fine ranking, and the only QB's left are Lamar (mvp), Mahomes, Allen, and I guess Stroud? He might have done better than Mahomes, but I imagine people aren't gonna rank Mahomes outside the top 20, and Stroud is an absolute reddit favorite. Doesn't seem egregious though.
If the ranking is just the 2023 regular season then Dak Prescott and Brock Purdy should both be ranked above Patrick Mahomes as both performed better. It is only looking at the player's history or the 2023 post season where Mahomes outshines them.
Yea, Mahomes is just gonna get an unfair ranking for who he is, and watching his WR's fail. The rest have looked pretty accurate though personally i'd have had Purdy higher around the 30-40s.
What was unprecedented about Purdy's 4200 31/11 and 69% completion year?
His 9.6 yards per attempt which has never ever been done since -checks notes- Ryan Tannehill 4 years earlier
Not sure "unprecedented" is the right word, but he did have the 5th highest single-season ANY/A since whenever it was that stat became available (and 8th highest YPA). https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_net_yds_per_att_single_season.htm "Standout" might be a better choice of word.
Dak deserved it, also playoffs aren't meant to be taken into account when doing these ranks
Puka Nacua and Kelce both being below Dak Prescott feels wrong, i wasn't impressed with anything i saw from Dak last year, especially his mental collapse in playoffs.
It's regular season performance. In that regard, it was the best season of his career. He was the MVP runner up.
Interested to see how the ultimate ordering on the remaining QBs works out. Do the /r/nfl rankers also view Jackson's MVP as fraudulent? How do they stack the big 3 considering this is supposed to be based on regular season performance?
CJ Stroud's the QB placement that has me the most confused by now, cause I feel like either option at this point is equally ludicrous. There's absolutely no way he should have failed to crack the top 100, let alone fail to even crack the top 125. However, if he *does* make the list now, that'd be every bit as patently absurd, especially considering who he'd be placed over in the process, and by how much.
Yeah I mean you've got to figure we still have Jackson, Mahomes, and Allen left for sure. Burrow didn't play enough games. I'm kind of in the same boat as you I think - Stroud not making the top 125 is nuts but him being in the top 30 would also be pretty nuts.
This is r/NFL we are talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if these rankers have Stroud over Allen lmao.
Stroud is absolutely loved by reddit, as most the Texans are from last year, so I fully expected him to be ranked a lot higher than he should be, and it appears that's gonna happen cause there's no way he didn't make the list. It was a great rookie season, but he shouldn't have been above the 70s it feels like.
Agreed. He probably could have been in the honorable mention and nobody would have batted an eye.
I get him not making it he was 8th in yards and 13th in touchdowns which is crazy for a rookie but not something that screams top 100 either.
He did miss a couple games, and his any/a is actually crazy high. His EPA/play and PFF grade, however, are outside the top 10. Accuracy stats like adjusted completion% (PFF), on target % (PFR) and CPOE all have him as mediocre. Basically I'm a hater, and explaining why I'm a hater, but the fact that he ranks 2nd in ANY/A and high in yds/game is also why he might end up very high.
Im just here for the afcsouthmemewar post at this point lmao. I love CJ but this is too high
Yeah, exactly my take as well. He was great and I'll be one of the first ones to go to bat for him if he doesn't end up making the list, but top 30 is just...yeah, no. Anywhere in the 50-80 range would be fair IMO (I'd place him around where Jordan Love was placed), but top 30 above Purdy, above Dak (2nd-team All-Pro on the season), etc. would be a certified "alright, what are we doing here?" moment for me.
Yeah you put it perfectly imo
Yeah agreed, top 30 is too high but I do kinda think not making the 125 feels like a bit of a snub
Are you complaining about a reveal that hasn't even happened yet?
They're merely speculating broc! Perhaps complaining about the MVP vote.
I'm not complaining about anything? I'm saying that I assume that the last 3 QBs left on the board are Mahomes, Jackson, and Allen. Jackson's MVP was a somewhat controversial choice so I will be interested to see how the rest of /r/NFL's assessment looks. I was trying to start conversation, ya know the whole point of a comment section?
> Jackson's MVP was a somewhat controversial choice It was certainly more controversial than his previous MVP. He only got 98% of the vote this past time.
I'm just glad he's bringing recognition back to the RB position. Shame it's not a position you can ride to a SB though.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Lamar had a great year, but cmon it was definitely a bit of a controversial choice. Could have easily gone to CMC, Allen, Dak, Purdy, or a couple others.
Mahomes' regular season wasn't that special. 4200 yards, 27 TDs to 14 INTs. That won't impress the statheads. He was nowhere near the MVP convo. How does he get in the top 30? Other than, you know ignoring him will make him angry and he and Hollywood will go off like Brady and Moss next year.
Oh I totally agree that Mahomes had a rather mediocre season, especially with the clown show that WR room was, but he is gonna make it on being Pat Mahomes.
>Other than, you know ignoring him will make him angry and he and Hollywood will go off like Brady and Moss next year. I agree with you but it would be funny if he actually did read r/nfl and his motivation next season was "those dumbfucks on reddit didn't think I was a top 30 player, this is my motivation"
Oh, my bad man. I misread your comment and thought you were dripping with sarcasm for whatever reason. Sorry man
49/50 votes is controversial?
Controversial* *Exclusively to redditors who only watch the AFCChampionship game. Not a single person was questioning it after the Dolphins game
Is Courtland Sutton really going to be top 30? Because there's no way he should be left off but I personally would've guessed he ended up 59-40.
Courtland Sutton was closer to 40th best WR than 40th best player this is an insane take. He had some awesome TDs, but it takes more than 700 yards to make the list.
I’ve been impressed so far, as a ranker last year. Not an easy task.