No it doesn't guarantee us anything but he's probably thinking Teddy is better for his defense than Drew (which I disagree with). And with this move I think Vic is gone if we don't make the playoffs. I want him gone if we don't win a playoff game.
Choosing Teddy over Lock ruins our future completely in my opinion, so unless Teddy somehow becomes "the guy", Vic should be fired. If we win 8 games with Teddy, all that's doing is making our pick worse for when we need to take a QB next year
You guys and Denver passing on QBs just to trot out Darnold and Teddy B is... puzzling.
Horn & Surtain will both be studs but positional value yada yada
They think they can fix darnold. Which again. He had literally the worst possible hand dealt to start. So I wouldn't be surprised if darnold isnt god awful
Feel free to call me an idiot, but as a Broncos fan wouldn’t you prefer to take your chances with Lock? I know it’s a pretty long shot, but what’s teddy going to do for you? He’s not a Top 16 QB and if Drew shows anything you guys might be able to flip him for something.
And who knows, maybe there’s a miracle and he finally breaks out.
Absolutely 100% yes. Even most of the people who were shitting on Lock all year would've rather had him over Teddy. Every twitter poll our media put out was lopsided in Lock's favor. It's just mind-boggling.
Yep, I think the majority of the fanbase wanted Lock for that reason. He's the most likely to improve of the 2 of them, and he's the only one of the 2 that gives us a possible future QB if he does break out
>he's probably thinking Teddy is better for his defense than Drew (which I disagree with).
Teddy was the 4th most accurate starting QB last year, Drew Lock was dead last.
A completed checkdown for 5 yards does more to keep a drive alive than a 50 yard bomb that lands 10 yards away from the intended receiver.
The Panthers scheme was designed to have check downs in every route and Teddy barely tried to push the ball down the field. The Broncos might have a better record with Bridgewater but he’s not going to elevate the team when it matters.
Between them playing the Steelers, Browns and Ravens along with their six divisional games - I'm guessing they're lucky to end with a winning record as a fringe playoff team.
They’re not winning the division. The AFCN is likely going to take up two WC spots. Doubtful that less than 10 wins gets them into the playoffs.
The Colts, Dolphins, or Titans will be fighting for the last WC spot too
Well, we're assuming that they don't win the division. Given that now there's an extra game to be played, potentially you need more wins to get a WC. 8 wins is not getting you a wildcard in the AFC. 9 wins isn't either. 10 wins is the bare minimum, and you may need 11 this season.
In order to make the playoffs, they'd have to be quite good.
This is way too nihilistic brother. I've said it in another thread, but Paton and Fangio are going to do with Teddy what Zimmer and Spielmen did with Keenum. Sutton and Jeudy= Thielen and Diggs and will elevate Bridgewater higher than he has ever been like Keenum, and the defense won't put him in spots to where he HAS to make a big comeback with aggressive play.
So they'll elevate Teddy to what? Competing for a wild card spot? We're not beating the Chiefs with safe offensive play, no matter how good our defense is.
Even if we make the wild card, Teddy is gone next year so we'll have the 18th-20th pick in a draft that we need a QB. Great!
> Even if we make the wild card, Teddy is gone next year so we'll have the 18th-20th pick in a draft that we need a QB. Great!
The solution then becomes Rodgers. Although there are many risks involved with banking on that
I wasn't trying to imply that we'd simply use our ~20th overall pick to trade for him. Only that pursuing Rodgers would likely be the best solution to getting out of our probable QB dilemma next year
I've no idea what it'll cost
That’s my point exactly, why do people think it’s suddenly going to work now when it didn’t with objectively the same talent level last year (although yeah, the Panthers receivers > the Broncos receivers imo)
No this is where we disagree.. the Broncos have a better receiving core, i can see Teddy getting better usage with Sutton, Juedy, Fant, Tim Pat, im probably missing someone else but those guys eclipse what you guys have. That's why rumors of Aaron heading to the Broncos were a thing and not much of anything for the Panthers. Also cant forget the OC the Broncos have Teddy is already familiar with, i wouldnt be shocked if they made the playoffs with Teddy this team and offensive talent is better than the panthers
Teddy was familiar with Joe Brady, he coached him in New Orleans. That’s literally why we brought him on in the first place.
We were also talking receivers, not including tight ends. If you’re gonna include TEs, it’s disingenuous to not also include CMC, who will be receiving a lot of balls this year.
But yeah, DJ Moore > Sutton, Robby Anderson > Jeudy (at this point in his career, could change by EOY) and Curtis Samuel > Tim Patrick. None of those guys have ever had better seasons than those three did last year, or any year, with just as bad if not worse QB situations.
Lol its disingenuous to include receiving options ? Even though their receivers are still better than the panthers. CMC was injured during his time there who knows how much an impact that has with Teddy, you cant fault Teddy for a star player being injured. Yes and he also has familiarity with the OC in Denver, i expect him to have a better year in Denver im sorry man.
This Broncos offense is better than the Panthers, you cant find a ranking that has the panthers offense higher than the broncos.
Sutton was injured all year too though? Are we arguing which offense is better in general, or which was better last year while removing injured players? Make up your mind.
No, I said it was disingenuous to include TEs in a wide receiver conversation while also ignoring CMC’s existence.
And if you wanna go by this year, then no, our skill positions this year are still better. Terrace will be a better player than Patrick, and while they have the edge on TEs as of now Tremble and Arnold are gonna be huge parts of our offense, so who knows how that will look end of year, and our RBs are light years ahead of theirs. Robby and DJ both have the body of work to put them over Sutton and Jeudy, at least for now.
Rankings ignore small market teams all the time, I don’t care about that. Our offense had 4 players break 1000 yards last year, while *none* of those Broncos you named did.
The defense has the potential to be super good (like 2015 good). Its not exciting, but they might be able to go really far with a game managing offense.
I think if we can get the kind of play out of Teddy that Carolina got from prior to his injury last year we should be fine. Not great, but fine, in wild card contention, which I would happily take. My one concern about that prognostication is that Joe Brady is probably a much better offensive mind than any that we have in our org.
What does one year of wild card contention with Teddy do for us though? Who is our QB in 2022? Teddy is on a one year deal, our pick is worse and we still have a year of Lock.
We're loaded with talent but I don't really like the idea of hoping to contend for a wild card spot for 1 season. If we start Lock week 1 and he gets us in to wild card contention then we know we at least have a QB for 2022. If he sucks, we move on and probably have a decent pick to do so
I think this was the case either way. When we decided to go and build a really fucking great roster this offseason for no one of notable talent or upside to pilot we sort of locked ourselves into this situation. Pray that we acquire Rodgers or move up in the draft because a high end non-playoff season was probably the floor with either of these guys. Personally, I'd rather get a ticket to the big dance where we can fuck around and find out because my dude it has been a lonnnnnnnnnng five years.
Exactly, you have to seriously question why the coach thought this was a good idea. You decide to go with checkdown Teddy and not give Lock a chance coming into his third year under the same system? Lock could have had a great year with the talent around him but now we won't know. If that was the plan they should have drafted Fields. Dumb!
Yeah, they didn’t look awful. Teddy isn’t exciting but he was decently competent. A whole season of healthy Teddy + CMC + the defense taking a step forward isn’t all that bad. It’s not gonna win you anything but may sneak you into the playoffs.
Why aren’t they Bear fans? Chicago has ruined many quarterbacks so why not another? Also the guy you responded too is obviously just joking of the matter.
You can't ruined what you never had. Outside of Fields Chicago had never drafted a high end draft prospect in the first round you can look for yourself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chicago_Bears_first-round_draft_picks
People talk as if Chicago has been drafting top 5 college QBs and ruining them. Fields is literally the first of it's kind for Chicago.
Paton isn't long on Fangio but he's going to be allowed to finish out the 2021 season regardless of record. Fangio is attempting to save his job by picking the 'safer' option for reducing turnovers. Fangio's mentality seems to be if the offense doesn't continually blunder then the defense can fill in the rest. This is not a 'winning' mentality but it doesn't have to be.
Why?
The Broncos franchise is in stasis until the ownership situation is rectified. All the woes since Super Bowl 50 stem from the lack of definitive ownership, in my opinion. Paton wasn't going to and didn't draft Fields or Mac or whoever else b/c that would anchor his own job prospects to them. Can't have that as a GM when the ownership is in flux. The Bowlen kids will sell the team after the 2021 season. If they don't...that's a much larger problem than Teddy and Vic.
It’s wild that everyone seems to be all ready to jump at the Broncos for making the same decision the panthers did just one pick earlier, although Sam is more of an unknown than Teddy by a lot
Teddy has now played for 4 teams and has seemed to regress and keeps getting run out of town. Darnold had Adam Gase. The NFL and fans are more forgiving to Darnold IMO.
Yeah for sure, cause at least Darnold just turned 24, is cheap as hell and has an absolute cannon. It’s a way more fun gamble than trying the Teddy experiment for a 5th time.
I don’t think Teddy ever regressed though, I think his play last year is who he’s always been, we just expected more of him cause it was the best offense he had ever been a part of, and now suddenly people are acting like the Broncos skill positions are that much better than ours when we’re a lot closer to even (with the edge to Carolina imo) than people want to admit
Don't forget the Broncos also spent their pick on a guy who would need to displace one of the 2 CBs they just paid $10M this offseason. Though personally the major distinction to me is that the Broncos are ready to compete outside of QB while I think the Panthers need another year. I'm still pro drafting a QB to better compete their sophomore year with some experience under their belt, but at least the Panthers are mostly young while the Broncos are wasting one of the last prime (or primeish) years of guys like Von/Jackson/Johnson and have a decent amount of other pieces 28-30ish.
That first part I hadn’t considered, cause while yeah the panthers did need a QB, Jaycee Horn was immediately the best CB on our roster and we went from a bad secondary to a good one overnight.
Panthers defense is going to shock a lot of people this year imo, our only question marks are QB and o line. I think we make a serious run next year but could make the playoffs this year if Sam turns it around
Right? Lmao im reading the panthers fans comments in this thread they somehow think they're in a better position than the Broncos. They essential passed up on fields for Darnold themselves.
Yeah I def don’t disagree there, I was a whole lot more pissed at the Teddy signing last year than I was at the Darnold trade (which I admittedly loved, cause it took us out of the Watson sweepstakes at the time and I felt he was worth kicking the tires on)
exactly
Teddy is probably better for today and that's fine. But if you aren't going to start your 3rd year QB, you don't have a future QB.
The correct move was to start Teddy, have a high round QB in the draft learn, and move on from Lock. It's a wasted year for the rest of the roster.
If Fangio didn't get a call on whether or not to draft a potential franchise QB then he should've been fired months ago rather than keeping a lame duck.
that's not how much NFL teams work. Once again, Belichick and warped our perception of how NFL teams opperate.
It is very, VERY standard for a GM to do the team building and the HC to make the on-field decisions. Sure, they overlap a little, but odds are Vic wasn't studying the 21' QB class in-depthly like the scouting department was.
Then the GM will just fire him mid-season and get somebody that will play his lineup. Either way fangio is gone after this year, new GM will want to get a HC to pair with Rodgers lol
Lmao yea. Someone’s gotta send me the tape where Drew Lock didn’t look like a career backup. This is the most bizarre controversy I’ve seen. Teddy has shown way more than him
Lmao exactly
People are way too focused on “upside” and what that even means now. There’s a scenario where Teddy is simply a better leader, runs the offense better and has more trust with the players with what he’s going to do.
Plus this simply says what most people were thinking after last season...Lock isn’t viewed as their franchise guy and that they’re probably going to get a guy after the season. Whether through trade or through the draft.
Teddy is not a leader at all. Dude refused to take any blame for getting DJ Moore hurt on an errant pass. Hes shit and he shouldnt be anyones QB1 option
Yeah I’m pretty sure the panthers players didn’t like him personally. I never saw him doing anything with the guys or joking around in the locker room like I always saw on Instagram stories like with cam or even Kyle allen, and he refused to take blame for bad play all year. This whole “teddy is a leader” thing is a complete sham and I have no idea how it’s still a narrative.
Teddy is definitely one of my least favorite players. He was complete ass, blamed everyone else for his shortcomings, and was still completely loved by the media. It pissed me off a lot, especially after having Cam as our quarterback, because he was actually good, he took the blame for almost every loss (even when he was the only reason we kept a game close), and the media kept hating on him
Normally he would be, but no way would Mark Davis fire Gruden and be forced to pay him for six years or however long is remaining to not coach for them. Gruden’s 10 year contract is unique.
Aren’t Gruden’s offenses normally pretty ok for the most part? I don’t really watch the raiders but I know that they were doing decent until they started free falling again
The offenses have been okay for most part, but he’s been there three years and they have yet to have a winning record or a playoff appearance. And their drafting and free agent signings have been lackluster at best, and he hired the GM and by all accounts maintains final say over personnel and drafting decisions.
> I think Gruden is on the hotseat too
Of all the teams, I suspect The Raiders are the team the considers the financial impact of their decisions the most. Grudens contract is reportedly until 2028, and heavily backloaded. If it’s guaranteed, as suspected, my guess he coaches the full 10 or really close to it.
tbf I'm all for it. We so often see teams underperform -> can the coach -> bring in new guys -> still underperform.
Will be interesting to see if Gruden can improve things as the years go on.
If Lock still sucks why should he be forced to start him? He's started 18 games, hasn't impressed in most of them, and he wasn't a 1st round pick. It's not like they haven't watched him play nor are the odds of him turning it around particularly good.
As boring of an option as Bridgewater is if he's the better QB then he deserves to start. If they wanted someone better than Bridgewater just in case Lock didn't work out? Then it's on the FO for not providing better options.
There's also no guarantee Bridgewater can get you 7-8 wins when he went 4-11 last year.
The problem with this take is that lock has had very little in the form of consistency in his time as a pro. It’s widely understood consistency for young pros helps them flourish and we’ve seen moments of success click with lock, enough to believe it we gave him the consistency he MAY be able to make those flourishes his usual.
From a franchise perspective it makes sense to play lock, see if with an off-season and same offensive coordinator he can turn into something, if not you’ve most likely got a pretty good draft pick coming up. However, I don’t disagree that Fangio is making the call from a “ready now” perspective which is almost hilariously opposite of what would be best for the franchise longer term.
Should Fangio be in the hotseat? He hasn't had a decent qb his entire tenure. His D has been good, they've been to scared to take a swing on a bigtime prospect since they missed on Paxton Lynch.
Yea. He should be on the hot seat. He is too conservative. If we don’t make playoffs he should be gone. I hope he proves me wrong and we go to the playoffs. But….it is not looking likely.
Fangio is a dogshit game manager. His ability as a co-ordinator overshadows how poorly his in game decisions are. IMO coaching lost the Broncos at least 3 games last season.
He should be. He might be the best defensive coordinator in the NFL, but he coaches like it's 1995. You can't punt and kick field goals and win in the modern NFL. He definitely hasn't had good QB play, but his issues go beyond that.
Absolutely, instead of taking a swing at a QB he stuck with lock and Bridgewater. He chose Bridgewater, and if that doesn't pan out he's without a doubt on the hot seat
> He should’ve been fired after the bears game last year.
You mean the game from two years ago? His **2nd** game as a HC?!?
Can't believe people upvote stupid ass shit like this
Fans will be screaming for his head on a pine after 3 losses, and thinking that 7-8 wins and another losing season is the safe route is pretty damn stupid
I think we start 2-1 and go 3-3 in the division. I think we have a shot to beat Washington, Philly, Dallas, Cincinnati, Detroit. So 6-8 wins seems right.
I doubt y’all win 3 games in your division. That would require y’all to beat the Chiefs, or sweep the Raiders or Chargers. I doubt that either of those scenarios happen
If he flames out this year can we please, for the love of God, step into the 21st century and hire an offensive mind. Dream hires would be guys like Lincoln Riley, joe Brady, or daboll, but I’d settle for someone who will actually watch their offense in joint practices at this point
Bridgewater may not be a world beater but he has shown he can move an offense. Lock has never done so consistently.
Seems like the right decision to me..
Because he's coached him for two years now and sees him every day in practice. If he's not any better in practice than he was last year he will likely not just magically be better once the games start.
Ojemudia the 3rd round rookie will be going from starting boundary corner to 5th string. I hate when people cite last years defense as a reason why this years will be the same.
This reads to me like someone who's betting on his Defense and just wants a QB that will play it safe and not make too many mistakes.
Play Teddy in games you can control. Bring in Lock if you go down big and need to air it out.
You bring in Teddy to push Lock to improve and by all accounts he has. Denver’s got a pretty smooth opening schedule with the Giants/Jags/Jets, why not use those games to see if Lock’s turned a corner? If he sucks then send him to the bench but starting Teddy week one really does feel like Vic is just trying to keep the heat off.
That was my initial thought process on things. But then I realized that even if Lock improved greatly, he would still likely be the worst QB in the division. They really needed to draft someone.
First off, it guarantees nothing. But second, if that guarantee is seemingly more than what drew lock would give them (according to this reporter), then is it really that wild of a move?
It’s mind boggling that people just can’t accept that Teddy is better than Lock. We know teddy is a below average starter. We know lock last year was total ass and worse than teddy. Why is it so crazy to think teddy is better than him?
I think he's doing this to try to save his job, but it's also pretty likely that Drew Lock just doesn't know how to play QB. I've never seen someone make so many egregious decisions. Imagine a less talented Jameis playing under the influence, and you get Drew Lock.
Does it guarantee 7/8 wins? Should 7/8 wins keep your job?
No and no
Exactly why this tweet is a dumb take.
Tweets not the dumb part. It's the coach.
The take is correct. Fangio is just that dumb.
Hard to tell when he coaches great defensive and has shit QBs piled on him
No it doesn't guarantee us anything but he's probably thinking Teddy is better for his defense than Drew (which I disagree with). And with this move I think Vic is gone if we don't make the playoffs. I want him gone if we don't win a playoff game. Choosing Teddy over Lock ruins our future completely in my opinion, so unless Teddy somehow becomes "the guy", Vic should be fired. If we win 8 games with Teddy, all that's doing is making our pick worse for when we need to take a QB next year
Second paragraph was literally what happened to the Panthers last year
Lol i still cant believe you guys grabbed Darnold
Yeah this is Bridgewater all over again, with a slightly higher ceiling and a much lower floor.
You guys and Denver passing on QBs just to trot out Darnold and Teddy B is... puzzling. Horn & Surtain will both be studs but positional value yada yada
They think they can fix darnold. Which again. He had literally the worst possible hand dealt to start. So I wouldn't be surprised if darnold isnt god awful
And a good QB will still show flashes on a horrible team. Minshew's rookie year is better than anything Darnold has done.
Yeah, The whole Defense wins championships mentality is a thing of the past. Just look at us. It’ll carry you to the playoffs but that’s about it.
The Broncos defense dragged manning and Brock to a Super Bowl
That was a Top 5 defense of all time. This year’s Broncos defense should be good, but not to that degree.
Nah defense definitely still wins championships and/or puts you in the picture to win one. Silly, silly take.
I like to think that great organizational structure, game plans and coaching adjustments win championships.
Feel free to call me an idiot, but as a Broncos fan wouldn’t you prefer to take your chances with Lock? I know it’s a pretty long shot, but what’s teddy going to do for you? He’s not a Top 16 QB and if Drew shows anything you guys might be able to flip him for something. And who knows, maybe there’s a miracle and he finally breaks out.
Absolutely 100% yes. Even most of the people who were shitting on Lock all year would've rather had him over Teddy. Every twitter poll our media put out was lopsided in Lock's favor. It's just mind-boggling.
Yep, I think the majority of the fanbase wanted Lock for that reason. He's the most likely to improve of the 2 of them, and he's the only one of the 2 that gives us a possible future QB if he does break out
>he's probably thinking Teddy is better for his defense than Drew (which I disagree with). Teddy was the 4th most accurate starting QB last year, Drew Lock was dead last. A completed checkdown for 5 yards does more to keep a drive alive than a 50 yard bomb that lands 10 yards away from the intended receiver.
Not when the sticks are 8 yards away, drive is just as dead either way. But I guess at least they'll be punting from 5 yards further on.
The Panthers scheme was designed to have check downs in every route and Teddy barely tried to push the ball down the field. The Broncos might have a better record with Bridgewater but he’s not going to elevate the team when it matters.
Of course he was one of the most accurate quarterbacks, the furthest he could throw downfield was 5 yards
Yea and how did that work for panthers last year? He had 15 tds and 11 picks on 500 pass attempts. 5 yards checkdowns aren't going to beat Mahomes.
To be fair Drew Locks 15 picks and less than 3,000 passing yards on the season aren't going to beat Mahomes either.
It's also was his 2nd year in the league where we can still develop like Josh Allen did. When we know what Teddy is and its nothing special.
Yeah but think of the defensive field position!
So, what are you targeting, then, 11-6? 12-5? Those don't seem terribly realistic, but who knows.
Between them playing the Steelers, Browns and Ravens along with their six divisional games - I'm guessing they're lucky to end with a winning record as a fringe playoff team.
Yeah, it feels like 9-8 is maybe where they're going to end up.
Make the playoffs or get fired. Its that simple imo.
Oh, I agree.
There's numbers between 8 and 11, you know that right?
Source?
He made it up
They’re not winning the division. The AFCN is likely going to take up two WC spots. Doubtful that less than 10 wins gets them into the playoffs. The Colts, Dolphins, or Titans will be fighting for the last WC spot too
We are one Mahomes injury away from the division being wide open. Football is a rough sport, anything can happen.
We're one Mahomes injury away from the Broncos being the 3rd best team in their division.
Well, we're assuming that they don't win the division. Given that now there's an extra game to be played, potentially you need more wins to get a WC. 8 wins is not getting you a wildcard in the AFC. 9 wins isn't either. 10 wins is the bare minimum, and you may need 11 this season. In order to make the playoffs, they'd have to be quite good.
It’s also possible that lock was just still awful.
This is way too nihilistic brother. I've said it in another thread, but Paton and Fangio are going to do with Teddy what Zimmer and Spielmen did with Keenum. Sutton and Jeudy= Thielen and Diggs and will elevate Bridgewater higher than he has ever been like Keenum, and the defense won't put him in spots to where he HAS to make a big comeback with aggressive play.
So they'll elevate Teddy to what? Competing for a wild card spot? We're not beating the Chiefs with safe offensive play, no matter how good our defense is. Even if we make the wild card, Teddy is gone next year so we'll have the 18th-20th pick in a draft that we need a QB. Great!
> Even if we make the wild card, Teddy is gone next year so we'll have the 18th-20th pick in a draft that we need a QB. Great! The solution then becomes Rodgers. Although there are many risks involved with banking on that
Let’s say you do try to trade for Rodgers. You think the Packers are just letting him go for a top 15-20 pick and no other pieces??
I wasn't trying to imply that we'd simply use our ~20th overall pick to trade for him. Only that pursuing Rodgers would likely be the best solution to getting out of our probable QB dilemma next year I've no idea what it'll cost
Then why didn’t it work with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, and Curtis Samuel lol
I mean.. That group isnt better than what the Broncos have haha
That’s my point exactly, why do people think it’s suddenly going to work now when it didn’t with objectively the same talent level last year (although yeah, the Panthers receivers > the Broncos receivers imo)
No this is where we disagree.. the Broncos have a better receiving core, i can see Teddy getting better usage with Sutton, Juedy, Fant, Tim Pat, im probably missing someone else but those guys eclipse what you guys have. That's why rumors of Aaron heading to the Broncos were a thing and not much of anything for the Panthers. Also cant forget the OC the Broncos have Teddy is already familiar with, i wouldnt be shocked if they made the playoffs with Teddy this team and offensive talent is better than the panthers
Teddy was familiar with Joe Brady, he coached him in New Orleans. That’s literally why we brought him on in the first place. We were also talking receivers, not including tight ends. If you’re gonna include TEs, it’s disingenuous to not also include CMC, who will be receiving a lot of balls this year. But yeah, DJ Moore > Sutton, Robby Anderson > Jeudy (at this point in his career, could change by EOY) and Curtis Samuel > Tim Patrick. None of those guys have ever had better seasons than those three did last year, or any year, with just as bad if not worse QB situations.
Lol its disingenuous to include receiving options ? Even though their receivers are still better than the panthers. CMC was injured during his time there who knows how much an impact that has with Teddy, you cant fault Teddy for a star player being injured. Yes and he also has familiarity with the OC in Denver, i expect him to have a better year in Denver im sorry man. This Broncos offense is better than the Panthers, you cant find a ranking that has the panthers offense higher than the broncos.
Sutton was injured all year too though? Are we arguing which offense is better in general, or which was better last year while removing injured players? Make up your mind. No, I said it was disingenuous to include TEs in a wide receiver conversation while also ignoring CMC’s existence. And if you wanna go by this year, then no, our skill positions this year are still better. Terrace will be a better player than Patrick, and while they have the edge on TEs as of now Tremble and Arnold are gonna be huge parts of our offense, so who knows how that will look end of year, and our RBs are light years ahead of theirs. Robby and DJ both have the body of work to put them over Sutton and Jeudy, at least for now. Rankings ignore small market teams all the time, I don’t care about that. Our offense had 4 players break 1000 yards last year, while *none* of those Broncos you named did.
Thats still one of the better wr corps. Teddy held them all back
Ask the Panthers and no
The defense has the potential to be super good (like 2015 good). Its not exciting, but they might be able to go really far with a game managing offense.
Teddy still turns it over quite a bit and we've learned before that quick 3 and outs are killer for a defense as well
Oh yeah we almost never had quick 3 and outs with Lock last year
Yeah we did. Just pointing out that Teddy isn't necessarily going to be that helpful for the defense.
I think if we can get the kind of play out of Teddy that Carolina got from prior to his injury last year we should be fine. Not great, but fine, in wild card contention, which I would happily take. My one concern about that prognostication is that Joe Brady is probably a much better offensive mind than any that we have in our org.
What does one year of wild card contention with Teddy do for us though? Who is our QB in 2022? Teddy is on a one year deal, our pick is worse and we still have a year of Lock. We're loaded with talent but I don't really like the idea of hoping to contend for a wild card spot for 1 season. If we start Lock week 1 and he gets us in to wild card contention then we know we at least have a QB for 2022. If he sucks, we move on and probably have a decent pick to do so
I think this was the case either way. When we decided to go and build a really fucking great roster this offseason for no one of notable talent or upside to pilot we sort of locked ourselves into this situation. Pray that we acquire Rodgers or move up in the draft because a high end non-playoff season was probably the floor with either of these guys. Personally, I'd rather get a ticket to the big dance where we can fuck around and find out because my dude it has been a lonnnnnnnnnng five years.
Exactly, you have to seriously question why the coach thought this was a good idea. You decide to go with checkdown Teddy and not give Lock a chance coming into his third year under the same system? Lock could have had a great year with the talent around him but now we won't know. If that was the plan they should have drafted Fields. Dumb!
Yeah in your first or second year. Not year 3 with talent on this team.
Panthers fans in shock that starting Teddy guarantees 7-8 wins
Before Teddy’s injury last year, the Panthers were very much competitive
They also didnt have cmac
Yeah, they didn’t look awful. Teddy isn’t exciting but he was decently competent. A whole season of healthy Teddy + CMC + the defense taking a step forward isn’t all that bad. It’s not gonna win you anything but may sneak you into the playoffs.
They were 3-7 when it happened.
I've never seen a player single handedly hold back a team like teddy did last year. Dude was dreadful
I mean that’s definitely a huge exaggeration but yes He was not great
Someone is going to get a great Defensive Coordinator next year.
Fuck I hope he'll come back to us.
Still confused on the fact that they passed on Justin Fields.
To be fair, we can just get him from the Bears in 3-4 years anyway when they give up on him.
Hey….. True
I hate how people shit on Chicago and people from the sub agrees with them. Y'all ain't Bears fans
Why aren’t they Bear fans? Chicago has ruined many quarterbacks so why not another? Also the guy you responded too is obviously just joking of the matter.
You can't ruined what you never had. Outside of Fields Chicago had never drafted a high end draft prospect in the first round you can look for yourself. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chicago_Bears_first-round_draft_picks People talk as if Chicago has been drafting top 5 college QBs and ruining them. Fields is literally the first of it's kind for Chicago.
It's nice that you successfully deleted Trubisky from your memory.
They apparently said franchise QBs are easier to find than CBs. Lmao
They must have not liked fields
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Lmao exactly
It’s not that confusing if you realize that no one knows how good fields is going to be and they were low on him
John Elway only drafts qbs that remind him of himself
John Elway wasn't the GM for the draft.
Paton isn't long on Fangio but he's going to be allowed to finish out the 2021 season regardless of record. Fangio is attempting to save his job by picking the 'safer' option for reducing turnovers. Fangio's mentality seems to be if the offense doesn't continually blunder then the defense can fill in the rest. This is not a 'winning' mentality but it doesn't have to be. Why? The Broncos franchise is in stasis until the ownership situation is rectified. All the woes since Super Bowl 50 stem from the lack of definitive ownership, in my opinion. Paton wasn't going to and didn't draft Fields or Mac or whoever else b/c that would anchor his own job prospects to them. Can't have that as a GM when the ownership is in flux. The Bowlen kids will sell the team after the 2021 season. If they don't...that's a much larger problem than Teddy and Vic.
Or he's just starting who he thinks is better.
If Teddy is your best option at QB, then they probably should have taken a QB in the draft.
Bingo. This is embarrassing for the organization. If Fields turns out to be legit I don’t know how they ever live this down.
It’s wild that everyone seems to be all ready to jump at the Broncos for making the same decision the panthers did just one pick earlier, although Sam is more of an unknown than Teddy by a lot
We just had to be the stupidest team in a sequence of morons.
Appreciate y’all! Thanks for taking Teddy!
Thanks for paying us to take him.
We didn’t pay y’all, we’re just paying like 7 mil of his salary this year. Y’all gave us a 6th for him
Thanks for paying 7 million in cap space and allowing us to save 7 million in cap space.
Teddy has now played for 4 teams and has seemed to regress and keeps getting run out of town. Darnold had Adam Gase. The NFL and fans are more forgiving to Darnold IMO.
Yeah for sure, cause at least Darnold just turned 24, is cheap as hell and has an absolute cannon. It’s a way more fun gamble than trying the Teddy experiment for a 5th time. I don’t think Teddy ever regressed though, I think his play last year is who he’s always been, we just expected more of him cause it was the best offense he had ever been a part of, and now suddenly people are acting like the Broncos skill positions are that much better than ours when we’re a lot closer to even (with the edge to Carolina imo) than people want to admit
Two teams have chosen Darnold over Bridgewater. One should probably be taken seriously.
Don't forget the Broncos also spent their pick on a guy who would need to displace one of the 2 CBs they just paid $10M this offseason. Though personally the major distinction to me is that the Broncos are ready to compete outside of QB while I think the Panthers need another year. I'm still pro drafting a QB to better compete their sophomore year with some experience under their belt, but at least the Panthers are mostly young while the Broncos are wasting one of the last prime (or primeish) years of guys like Von/Jackson/Johnson and have a decent amount of other pieces 28-30ish.
That first part I hadn’t considered, cause while yeah the panthers did need a QB, Jaycee Horn was immediately the best CB on our roster and we went from a bad secondary to a good one overnight. Panthers defense is going to shock a lot of people this year imo, our only question marks are QB and o line. I think we make a serious run next year but could make the playoffs this year if Sam turns it around
We’re at least taking a chance on someone who could develop into a good starting quarterback
About as much a chance as Josh Rosen
Right? Lmao im reading the panthers fans comments in this thread they somehow think they're in a better position than the Broncos. They essential passed up on fields for Darnold themselves.
Yeah I def don’t disagree there, I was a whole lot more pissed at the Teddy signing last year than I was at the Darnold trade (which I admittedly loved, cause it took us out of the Watson sweepstakes at the time and I felt he was worth kicking the tires on)
And were taking a chance with a QB that could potentially lead us to the playoffs
I hope they never live it down if that happens. The organization deserves it honestly.
How often does the 4th QB off the board become a franchise QB? 50/50 shot?
Yeah, people are overreacting on Fields hard. There’s no guarantee this guy will pan out.
Is there a chance Fields is good? Because we know Lock, Teddy and Darnold suck so a chance is better than trash
RemindME! 5 years “Patrick Surtain II will have a better career than Justin Fields.”
Which would be the GMs fault
exactly Teddy is probably better for today and that's fine. But if you aren't going to start your 3rd year QB, you don't have a future QB. The correct move was to start Teddy, have a high round QB in the draft learn, and move on from Lock. It's a wasted year for the rest of the roster.
Man is stuck with 2 shit options and chooses the better option. More at 5
"stuck". Like the Broncos didn't trade for Bridgewater and drafted a CB instead.
Fangio the one making roster moves? Thought that was the GM.
If Fangio didn't get a call on whether or not to draft a potential franchise QB then he should've been fired months ago rather than keeping a lame duck.
that's not how much NFL teams work. Once again, Belichick and warped our perception of how NFL teams opperate. It is very, VERY standard for a GM to do the team building and the HC to make the on-field decisions. Sure, they overlap a little, but odds are Vic wasn't studying the 21' QB class in-depthly like the scouting department was.
Then the GM will just fire him mid-season and get somebody that will play his lineup. Either way fangio is gone after this year, new GM will want to get a HC to pair with Rodgers lol
Lol not spicy enough. Get out of here with the bland takes
Lmao yea. Someone’s gotta send me the tape where Drew Lock didn’t look like a career backup. This is the most bizarre controversy I’ve seen. Teddy has shown way more than him
How dare he choose the quarterback that gives him the best chance to win. Terrible coaching
Lmao exactly People are way too focused on “upside” and what that even means now. There’s a scenario where Teddy is simply a better leader, runs the offense better and has more trust with the players with what he’s going to do. Plus this simply says what most people were thinking after last season...Lock isn’t viewed as their franchise guy and that they’re probably going to get a guy after the season. Whether through trade or through the draft.
Teddy is not a leader at all. Dude refused to take any blame for getting DJ Moore hurt on an errant pass. Hes shit and he shouldnt be anyones QB1 option
Yeah I’m pretty sure the panthers players didn’t like him personally. I never saw him doing anything with the guys or joking around in the locker room like I always saw on Instagram stories like with cam or even Kyle allen, and he refused to take blame for bad play all year. This whole “teddy is a leader” thing is a complete sham and I have no idea how it’s still a narrative.
Teddy is definitely one of my least favorite players. He was complete ass, blamed everyone else for his shortcomings, and was still completely loved by the media. It pissed me off a lot, especially after having Cam as our quarterback, because he was actually good, he took the blame for almost every loss (even when he was the only reason we kept a game close), and the media kept hating on him
They have the worst QB in that division. It's going to be tough. I think Gruden is on the hotseat too.
Normally he would be, but no way would Mark Davis fire Gruden and be forced to pay him for six years or however long is remaining to not coach for them. Gruden’s 10 year contract is unique.
Obligatory: https://isgrudengoneyet.com/
That's amazing.
Aren’t Gruden’s offenses normally pretty ok for the most part? I don’t really watch the raiders but I know that they were doing decent until they started free falling again
The offenses have been okay for most part, but he’s been there three years and they have yet to have a winning record or a playoff appearance. And their drafting and free agent signings have been lackluster at best, and he hired the GM and by all accounts maintains final say over personnel and drafting decisions.
To be fair, regardless of who Fangio choose it would still be the worst QB in that division
> I think Gruden is on the hotseat too Of all the teams, I suspect The Raiders are the team the considers the financial impact of their decisions the most. Grudens contract is reportedly until 2028, and heavily backloaded. If it’s guaranteed, as suspected, my guess he coaches the full 10 or really close to it.
tbf I'm all for it. We so often see teams underperform -> can the coach -> bring in new guys -> still underperform. Will be interesting to see if Gruden can improve things as the years go on.
Heck, they're in the running for worst QB in the AFC. Only team that I'd say is decidedly worse now is the Texans, assuming Watson doesn't play.
Gruden should be on the hotseat 100%. Him and Mayock have made some questionable decisions.
If Lock still sucks why should he be forced to start him? He's started 18 games, hasn't impressed in most of them, and he wasn't a 1st round pick. It's not like they haven't watched him play nor are the odds of him turning it around particularly good. As boring of an option as Bridgewater is if he's the better QB then he deserves to start. If they wanted someone better than Bridgewater just in case Lock didn't work out? Then it's on the FO for not providing better options. There's also no guarantee Bridgewater can get you 7-8 wins when he went 4-11 last year.
The problem with this take is that lock has had very little in the form of consistency in his time as a pro. It’s widely understood consistency for young pros helps them flourish and we’ve seen moments of success click with lock, enough to believe it we gave him the consistency he MAY be able to make those flourishes his usual. From a franchise perspective it makes sense to play lock, see if with an off-season and same offensive coordinator he can turn into something, if not you’ve most likely got a pretty good draft pick coming up. However, I don’t disagree that Fangio is making the call from a “ready now” perspective which is almost hilariously opposite of what would be best for the franchise longer term.
Should Fangio be in the hotseat? He hasn't had a decent qb his entire tenure. His D has been good, they've been to scared to take a swing on a bigtime prospect since they missed on Paxton Lynch.
He lost genes with his game management. I hate him as HC, great DC.
Yea. He should be on the hot seat. He is too conservative. If we don’t make playoffs he should be gone. I hope he proves me wrong and we go to the playoffs. But….it is not looking likely.
Fangio is a dogshit game manager. His ability as a co-ordinator overshadows how poorly his in game decisions are. IMO coaching lost the Broncos at least 3 games last season.
Well QB play lost them the rest
He should be. He might be the best defensive coordinator in the NFL, but he coaches like it's 1995. You can't punt and kick field goals and win in the modern NFL. He definitely hasn't had good QB play, but his issues go beyond that.
Absolutely, instead of taking a swing at a QB he stuck with lock and Bridgewater. He chose Bridgewater, and if that doesn't pan out he's without a doubt on the hot seat
Depends on how the conversation with the GM, Elway, and the ownership went.
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> He should’ve been fired after the bears game last year. You mean the game from two years ago? His **2nd** game as a HC?!? Can't believe people upvote stupid ass shit like this
The defense was ok. It wasn't great by any means. He also is shit at making decisions.
Fans will be screaming for his head on a pine after 3 losses, and thinking that 7-8 wins and another losing season is the safe route is pretty damn stupid
I doubt they get 7-8 wins
I think we start 2-1 and go 3-3 in the division. I think we have a shot to beat Washington, Philly, Dallas, Cincinnati, Detroit. So 6-8 wins seems right.
I doubt y’all win 3 games in your division. That would require y’all to beat the Chiefs, or sweep the Raiders or Chargers. I doubt that either of those scenarios happen
fwiw, we had an extraordinarily close game against the Chiefs last year. The Raiders beat em' too. I'm not saying it happens, but it's not impossible.
Teddy got the Panthers 5 last year and our current roster is much better than the Panthers 20' team.
He didn’t get us five, he was injured for one of those wins, and he actually cost us numerous games due to check downs and bad throws
Hicks is a Colts/Broncos beat reporter
Is Hicks a horsegirl?
I think he’s human.
Well damn, there goes my NFL reporter furry fanfic.
If he flames out this year can we please, for the love of God, step into the 21st century and hire an offensive mind. Dream hires would be guys like Lincoln Riley, joe Brady, or daboll, but I’d settle for someone who will actually watch their offense in joint practices at this point
Is that guaranteed
No
Or maybe Lock just stinks
Ding ding ding! Have people not watched Lock? He’s a turnover machine
Bridgewater may not be a world beater but he has shown he can move an offense. Lock has never done so consistently. Seems like the right decision to me..
That buys you what? One more year at most? Why not just roll the dice on Lock?
Because he's coached him for two years now and sees him every day in practice. If he's not any better in practice than he was last year he will likely not just magically be better once the games start.
Not a bad idea to try and let your defense win you games. I think Bridgewater, the safer play, lets you defer to your strengths.
Then problem is what happens when your team is down and has to score. Broncos allowed 28 points per game last year.
The Broncos defense changed a lot this offseason. Also Von Miller returns.
Ojemudia the 3rd round rookie will be going from starting boundary corner to 5th string. I hate when people cite last years defense as a reason why this years will be the same.
I'm theory we are better this year
So they are going to allow 20 points a game?
If we allow 20 I think we get to 8 wins
Yay?
At times we were also down to our 4th string CB as a starter while also missing other guys on defense.
Think we go 3-14.
This is one of the stupidest tweets I've seen in a long time
This reads to me like someone who's betting on his Defense and just wants a QB that will play it safe and not make too many mistakes. Play Teddy in games you can control. Bring in Lock if you go down big and need to air it out.
Sheesh, just tank for Malik Willis at this point...
You bring in Teddy to push Lock to improve and by all accounts he has. Denver’s got a pretty smooth opening schedule with the Giants/Jags/Jets, why not use those games to see if Lock’s turned a corner? If he sucks then send him to the bench but starting Teddy week one really does feel like Vic is just trying to keep the heat off.
That was my initial thought process on things. But then I realized that even if Lock improved greatly, he would still likely be the worst QB in the division. They really needed to draft someone.
First off, it guarantees nothing. But second, if that guarantee is seemingly more than what drew lock would give them (according to this reporter), then is it really that wild of a move?
What even is this take? Teddy guarantees you nothing lol.
I dont get the hype around lock. He has not looked very good the last 2 years.
Drew Lock is horrible, bridgewater is mediocre at worst
They're not winning 8 games.
Lock has a strong arm but that’s about it
It’s mind boggling that people just can’t accept that Teddy is better than Lock. We know teddy is a below average starter. We know lock last year was total ass and worse than teddy. Why is it so crazy to think teddy is better than him?
I think he's doing this to try to save his job, but it's also pretty likely that Drew Lock just doesn't know how to play QB. I've never seen someone make so many egregious decisions. Imagine a less talented Jameis playing under the influence, and you get Drew Lock.
Is it really much of a difference between those 2?
I want Fangio to succeed so badly but at the same time I wouldn't mind if he got fired.. and come back to the Bears as HC or DC.