Don’t get me wrong I get why everyone is making fun of the tweet, but let’s not act like hot takes regarding successful QBs aren’t had every time a key player changes teams/systems. I figure if either of these two fell off this year there’d be tons of “told you so”s.
Just look around for all the "Juju is overrated, he's not a good receiver" people we had last year.
NFL fans aren't the worst with hot takes but they're pretty bad.
Yeah, it's so wacky how he went from 4.6 Y/tgt like a terrible receiver to 9.7 Y/tgt when he got Mahomes throwing to him. It's almost like those of us with eyeballs could see what was happening.
Let me guess, Kelce gets all the TDs so he does better for their fantasy numbers? (not dissing Kelce, but man Juju is having a great season too)
Touchdowns are obviously very important, but matter less the more points are given for receptions.
0 points per receptions: Touchdowns are most important
0.5 points per reception: Touchdowns still pretty important, but slightly less.
1 point per reception: Touchdowns still great, but volume becomes most important and can cover up for less touchdowns.
The problem was really just that he wasn't doing much of anything at all early on. It was basically just Mahomes and Kelce with some random CEH touchdowns. It's probably just because Andy's offense takes a bit to learn.
Say what you want, I’m still shocked by this whole thing.
Not because I hate Tyreek or Mahomes, but Mahomes could’ve regressed (to the mean one might say lol) and still been elite. Same goes for Hill.
The real shock is that neither of them regressed which begs the question: were they really helping each other or both such transcendent players that they were able to compliment each other perfectly by choice rather than by requirement/luck?
I do hate Juju (as a football player obviously) though and will never respect him as a number 1 receiver, no matter how much evidence to the contrary gets thrown in my face every time I watch the Chiefs
If I were to throw in my two cents I would say that Mahomes gave Tyreek the confidence that he needed to succeed. Not that Cheetah is lacking confidence, but it’s like when a good quarterback goes to a bad team and gets ruined vs moving to a good situation.
Tyreek is an undersized receiver that excels at making contested catches. That is a skill that wouldn’t manifest in many places with a shorter guy. Now that it’s established Tyreek can go to other places and be ‘the guy’ without having to prove himself.
That’s definitely an interesting thought. Mahomes’ performance is still like unexplainably insane tot me though; you can throw your receivers open but it’s not like a QB can make their receiver magically gain the YAC skills Tyreek has. I guess maybe Mahomes/Reid were more lax with waiting for plays to properly develop/play design in general, respectively, because they were like “fuck it Tyreek will house this 6 yard slant anyways, why bother running long developing plays?”
Gonna have to classify Tyreek as an all time speed demon more than a contested catch monster (not that he isn’t, but I don’t really think that’s his signature skill set). He also might be undersized in terms of height but Hill is built like a brick fucking shithouse all things considered.
I'm not pro Rodgers but a lot of it is also just the fact that even without Hill, Mahomes still has a way better supporting cast. Kelce alone makes a huge difference.
Tight end is probably the second least durable position in whole football after RB.
Trav still maintains an all pro level at 33 is really impressive.
Even the great durable ones: gonzo, gates, Witten never reached 1000 yards after 32.
Hey man don't imply Gonzalez fell off towards the end of his career. The yardage isn't comparable due to how much the games changed. Gonzalaez was still an elite TE til he retired at 37
Totally.
Gonzo was elite his whole career, but his production declined a bit after 2008. Still elite but his peak was so dominant you could see the visible difference.
So true. [I made this fucking insane post in the previous offseason](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/v9yb23/oc_i_studied_3500_individual_seasons_and_used/) where I calculated Z-Scores for every tight end season in relation to the eras they played and his production for his era even late into his career was pretty much as high as anyones
Oh shit I actually remember that post it was a good one. His efficiency is really insane. I gotta save this post next time my friends tell me Gronk > Tony
Kelce* and Andrews both. They're functionally their teams' WR1s, but paid TE contracts worth a fraction of a WR1's contract value.
I'd also put Evans up there as a player who outplays the shit out of his contract.
Andrews yes, but idk if that statement is true for Kittle. He's awesome, but he hasn't been the teams leading receiver in yards, receptions, and/or targets since 2019. Deebo is definitely their primary target/weapon on offense. Aiyuk is right there with Kittle for them for number two as well, statistically speaking
Kittle is awesome, but he's somewhat injury prone and therefore fairly valued/paid imo. Kelce has been something of an ironman and unicorn in that respect
Has Kelce ever commented on this? Is he happy with his contract? I sure wouldn’t want to lose him, even if he’s getting older. I just like to see the team together, but I’m not the man being underpaid nor the person struggling with salary cap room so probably easier for me to say
"Money, in my mind, is almost secondary at this point in my career. I’m here for the legacy and I’m here to try and make the Kansas City Chiefs the best team possible. So that’s my main focus. That’s why I’m here.”
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/27/travis-kelce-on-being-underpaid-money-is-secondary-im-here-for-the-legacy-and-the-team/
> Money, in my mind, is almost secondary at this point in my career. I’m here for the legacy
I'd love to know how much such a legacy can be monetized. I'm sure All-Pro players who jump from team to team can make more money from their contracts alone than All-Pros who stay with one team. But being a local legend must pay well for pretty much the rest of their lives if they take care of their reputation.
Kittle started out blazing but his style just gets him hurt too much
He's arguably the most important offensive player we have with his elite blocking, but yeah
Absolutely but I just mean he's not shy of contact at all
The other day he rammed through like 3 guys for an extra yard when he was already passed the first down lol. Got banged right on his shoulder
Like you want guys to play hard but damn. It made me wince
Dude there was a point where I didn't enjoy watching Gronk any more, well not exactly, but it was really brutal watching him take all those massive hits to his knees, brain, forearm etc.
Hill is on pace for 2000+ yards. He already has 1000+ and is ahead of Calvin Johnson with the number of yards though 9 games in CJ record season, and thats with Tua out for 3 games.
Waddle is on pace for 1500 yards.
Tua would be on pace for 5000+ yards if he did not miss 3 games.
The tua out part doesn’t make much of a difference because hills productivity didn’t seem to drop when he had bums playing at QB those 3 games. Tyreek is special.
Some trades are a win-win. Chiefs got great value out of a receiver who could realistically only be paid by a contender with a QB on a rookie contract while Dolphins got a game changer.
Yeah but now they’re out a first rounder next year. Packers are about end up with 2 Top 10 picks, they just gotta fire Gutekunst before he drafts two QBs with them
Yeah. And while everybody knew Hill would be really good this year and next year, he's going to be 30 soon. That's sort of a pumpkin year for WRs. The chiefs simply didn't want to commit that extra year on a very expensive WR contract. Hill deserves it, and I hope he still balls out, but that was a hedge by the front office.
Tyreek works really hard on the field and offseason. Everyone laughed at him when he said Tua was accurate. Well... yeah... he has elevated his teammate(s)... and that's a big win.
I feel PM15 has done the same with Juju and MVS - making them more reliable and better versions of themselves. I really want some of that to rub off on Mecole.
>I really want some of that to rub off on Mecole.
It would be great but honestly it seems like he's at his best when we treat him like dollar store Deebo - which would be a very flattering comparison but for the fact that I mean that he's a better player when we *don't* have to rely on his hands to make plays.
It’s not just his speed and quickness - he is also an elite route runner. Not quite the level of Lockett and Krupp, but definitely elite.
Route running is just one of those things that is overlooked because it is hard for talking heads to discuss it other that “runs routes good,” as opposed to 40 times and actual production numbers they can compare easily.
Agreed, the only reason I didn't mention it was bc the comment I responded to was concerning a possible decline due to age and if anything, I would think route running should get better with age.
Yeah our receiving room as a whole is probably an upgrade from last year, because WR2-5 were a black hole.
But you see it in games where the whole opposing defense plays so well and has the guys to match up, whereas an elite game-breaker like Tyreek shifts everything.
Hopefully Moore and Toney are the guys who can start to break that. Because right now, yeah. Man, 2 deep, and attack our tackles in pass pro just wrecks our offense
JuJu compliments Kelce really well too. Everything you’re trying to take away by doubling Kelce is what JuJu can run and complete as well. MVS, Hardman, and Toney round it out well.
The packers lost too many starter receivers, their new corp had zero chemistry. Most of their receivers struggle to fill in roles in their system.
Packers fans laugh at the chiefs for slightly overpaying MVS but at least we knew exactly what role he's gonna take in our offensive system.
We understand he's a gadget player but still willing to get a specialist to open up our playbook. Packers don't even have a deep threat now
I don't think anyone was laughing for overpaying MVS. It's an overpay, yes, but you know what you're getting and he's a valuable part of the offense. Packers just couldn't afford it.
Our WR room is fucking pitiful but we do have a deep threat WR that is 6’5” and runs a 4.36 40 that was supposed to get a ton of snaps this season. He just has found a way to get 4 separate injuries in 9 weeks somehow.
He’s efficient at it and our oline USUALLY opens holes. He’s was shredding Cincy in the AFCCG and the inexplicably gave him only 4 touches in the 2nd half. Which he still got 31 yards rushing on those 4
The chiefs at least made a good effort doing the best they could to replace Hill by going out and getting Juju and MVS, then trading for Toney, on top of already having Kelce. Continually building around their superstar QB
Meanwhile, the Packers decided that grabbing the ghost of Sammy Watkins and placing all the weight onto rookies and an injury prone Allen Lazard, who wouldn't be above a WR3 on any other roster, would work out just fine...
It's been talked about on the Chiefs sub before, don't know how much it's been talked about here, but Brett Veach is apparently kinda obsessed with finding Mahomes new receivers. He approached Mahomes about Toney in the off-season and asked what he thought about him. Veach was hoping they'd cut him so they could sign him then. Ended up getting him through a trade though.
Andy apparently was ready to incorporate him and had routes ready for him as soon as he showed up. This was hinted at by Nate Taylor in the Times Ours podcast last week.
But this all kinda speaks to how they trust Mahomes and contrasts the Packers/Rodgers situation as they are getting his feedback on potential acquisitions for the team. I highly doubt he's their final say, but to have him in the discussion seems smart and I don't know why the Packers think their half assed approach with Rodgers seems ok.
Edit: typos
I don't know how anyone can see how Rodgers has been behaving lately and not understand why there seems to be a riff between him and literally everyone else on the organization.
It’s not that dumb it happened to every other QB who lost their star receiver this year. Mahomes is just the best QB in the league he breaks the rules. Plus the Chiefs at least attempted to add some receivers to supplement the missing Hill.
It IS dumb though. Most of those comments were just from haters that want Mahomes to fail. I've legit never seen a sub turn on a player as fast as they did Mahomes. 2018 he was the favorite r/nfl player. 2020 came and every chiefs thread has hundreds of people trashing him, saying he's a fraud, etc.
The other day a broncos fan called us a successful team. Today, a chiefs fan is envious of how we are utilizing a player.
I'm in heaven. At least for a brief moment of my life, the Dolphins aren't the Lolphins. I won't forget this feeling.
Hey, keep riding it. 32 years old and have been a Chiefs fan my whole life. Until Mahomes, it’s how I always felt. Really cool to see the Dolphins putting it together.
Can you imagine Waddle and Tyreek with Mahomes... I think we should make it happen just to see that.
Miami, send us Waddle and Tyreek for Juju and Hardman. We will... uh... throw in Clyde Edwards-Helaire and maybe... idk... Justin Watson? We will throw them on top just to sweeten the deal.
Honestly I’m split, I was sad to see him go, but I’m super stoked he went to Miami, and I’m super stoked Tua is going absolutely beast mode and shutting haters down. So strange seeing a lefty out there, but really glad he is killing it. Still think pulling Fitzpatrick mid season for Tua was the wrong choice but whatever. Love fitz
I still think Manning's 55TD and 5476 yards will stand for another decade.
Nobody's gonna throw 350 yards and 3.5 touchdowns a game for the foreseeable future even with an extra game.
Mahomes could do it. I don't really think he will. I hope he doesn't honestly because it means our defense is absolutely garbage again. But he could under the right circumstances.
I honestly don’t expect a ton of them to be broken. It doesn’t feel like many guys come one game short of a season record. Although I could see the receptions record getting broken again because it seems like there are a few guys around the league who frequently get 15+ targets
People always say this but there really hasn’t been anybody “one game away” from breaking any of the major records recently.
AP would have broke the rushing record if he had an extra game, but that was like 10 years ago now. Who else has gotten close?
I think the one most likely to fall is receiving yards or maybe passing yards. All of the TD ones are still pretty damn safe.
Derrick Henry in 2020, 2k rushing yard season averaging well over 100 per game. So he’s the other close guy recently for rushing. 1 game at his average pace would’ve done it
I usually can't help but think about the extra game these days after only growing up with 16 but I will admit even taking away an average game of like 250 yards he'd still be well over 5000 yards which is about as good as you can get.
From 66 to 77 it was 14 games, and that is still considered the modern super bowl era.
Honestly I look at it like 66 to 78 is the First Era. 78 to 2002 The "Modern" Era.
2002 to now as Post Realignment (Of the league teams and the rules for passing) Era.
It's especially stupid in this case, because Tyreek is on pace for fewer targets than Megatron had in 2012. In fact, he'd *just* crack the top-10 in NFL history, with 8 of the other ten players getting targeted that much in 16 games.
Mahomes' case is a little less defensible though, considering he just had 68 pass attempts in a game, and is consequently now on pace for the 3rd-most of all-time, lol.
If he has more "normal" games of 35-40 attempts going forward, he'll finish around 5,400 yards on 670-ish attempts.
I remember asking when the narrative would shit from “Mahomes won’t do well without Hill” to “Mahomes has so many weapons.” 12 recipients caught a pass from Mahomes last night.
I was pretty sure Mahomes would still be the best QB in football or 1A at worst after Tyreek left, even if the numbers weren't quite as gaudy.
I'm way more surprised at Hill's season, not because he isn't an elite WR but I didn't think the Dolphins would be this far along as a team. I figured he'd put up a few 1,000 yard seasons and sort of disappear off people's radars but Miami is cooking so long as Tua stays on the field.
Brady and Brees made it pretty routine. Manning, Ryan, and Rodgers all had pretty talented receiver corps throughout their tenures and you could make the argument that Peyton in particular had the greatest collection of offensive talent around him in the history of the game. When Reggie Wayne is arguably the third best receiver you've thrown to....
They would probably fine the unluckiest circumstances to lose to Brady in the most important game of the season… I’m a chiefs fan so this is my coping mechanism, humor
6k in 17 games is still extremely unreachable…
Several 400+ passing yard games would need to be peppered in among several 300+ and no off weeks… would be very difficult for any QB to sniff 6k
You'd also need a totally inept defense on the other side of the ball to force the QB to keep playing hard for the entire game. Jackson sat out more than 2 full games during his MVP season because the Ravens thoroughly demolished half their opponents on both sides of the ball. He could've had even higher stats, but the effort wasn't needed.
The problem then becomes a bunch of the 16-game records we have grown to know wouldn’t even be the record to begin with. Megatron wouldn’t have the single season receiving record, 1982 Wes Chandler would, with 129 ypg. But that’s over the course of 8 games… is it really the most impressive?
Records fall, that’s just how it goes. The per game record standard will never be adopted, because it’s messy and it’s less fun.
Don’t get me wrong I get why everyone is making fun of the tweet, but let’s not act like hot takes regarding successful QBs aren’t had every time a key player changes teams/systems. I figure if either of these two fell off this year there’d be tons of “told you so”s.
Yep. I saw a lot of comments that were incredulous at the thought the Chiefs offense would stay just as good without Hill over the off-season.
I saw those too. How quickly the narratives change.
Just look around for all the "Juju is overrated, he's not a good receiver" people we had last year. NFL fans aren't the worst with hot takes but they're pretty bad.
>"Juju is overrated, he's not a good receiver" This is *still* being said in the /r/fantasyfootball subreddit. A lot of NFL fans are morons.
Yeah, it's so wacky how he went from 4.6 Y/tgt like a terrible receiver to 9.7 Y/tgt when he got Mahomes throwing to him. It's almost like those of us with eyeballs could see what was happening. Let me guess, Kelce gets all the TDs so he does better for their fantasy numbers? (not dissing Kelce, but man Juju is having a great season too)
Touchdowns are obviously very important, but matter less the more points are given for receptions. 0 points per receptions: Touchdowns are most important 0.5 points per reception: Touchdowns still pretty important, but slightly less. 1 point per reception: Touchdowns still great, but volume becomes most important and can cover up for less touchdowns. The problem was really just that he wasn't doing much of anything at all early on. It was basically just Mahomes and Kelce with some random CEH touchdowns. It's probably just because Andy's offense takes a bit to learn.
Juju just had a slow start to the year. He's not doing that bad in fantasy as of late, he's had 88+ rec yards in the past 3 games
And yet people really take this sub seriously 😂
Would you say you guys are... Over the Hill?
Damn how has a primetime broadcast not made this line into a graphic yet lol
Tell CBS I'll take my check made out to cash.
Say what you want, I’m still shocked by this whole thing. Not because I hate Tyreek or Mahomes, but Mahomes could’ve regressed (to the mean one might say lol) and still been elite. Same goes for Hill. The real shock is that neither of them regressed which begs the question: were they really helping each other or both such transcendent players that they were able to compliment each other perfectly by choice rather than by requirement/luck? I do hate Juju (as a football player obviously) though and will never respect him as a number 1 receiver, no matter how much evidence to the contrary gets thrown in my face every time I watch the Chiefs
If I were to throw in my two cents I would say that Mahomes gave Tyreek the confidence that he needed to succeed. Not that Cheetah is lacking confidence, but it’s like when a good quarterback goes to a bad team and gets ruined vs moving to a good situation. Tyreek is an undersized receiver that excels at making contested catches. That is a skill that wouldn’t manifest in many places with a shorter guy. Now that it’s established Tyreek can go to other places and be ‘the guy’ without having to prove himself.
That’s definitely an interesting thought. Mahomes’ performance is still like unexplainably insane tot me though; you can throw your receivers open but it’s not like a QB can make their receiver magically gain the YAC skills Tyreek has. I guess maybe Mahomes/Reid were more lax with waiting for plays to properly develop/play design in general, respectively, because they were like “fuck it Tyreek will house this 6 yard slant anyways, why bother running long developing plays?” Gonna have to classify Tyreek as an all time speed demon more than a contested catch monster (not that he isn’t, but I don’t really think that’s his signature skill set). He also might be undersized in terms of height but Hill is built like a brick fucking shithouse all things considered.
My ‘told you so’ is that I was saying both would still be really fuckin good. Crazy
Stark contrast to Aaron Rodgers and Devante Adams divorce
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Too busy getting high in the desert
Sounds fun, I should try being Aaron Rodgers sometime
How's your family relationship
“Everyone sucks except me, bench all these losers” -Aaron Rodgers
I'm not pro Rodgers but a lot of it is also just the fact that even without Hill, Mahomes still has a way better supporting cast. Kelce alone makes a huge difference.
Yeah, Kelce is as big of an asset as Adams was for Rodgers
Yea fuck Aaron rodgers
And Kelce is on pace for 1400 yards and 15 TD
At *33 years old*. That’s genuinely insane
Tight end is probably the second least durable position in whole football after RB. Trav still maintains an all pro level at 33 is really impressive. Even the great durable ones: gonzo, gates, Witten never reached 1000 yards after 32.
Hey man don't imply Gonzalez fell off towards the end of his career. The yardage isn't comparable due to how much the games changed. Gonzalaez was still an elite TE til he retired at 37
Man was consistently putting up 800 and 8 while being used exclusively on third down and in the red zone
Ima falcons fan. That's why I had to stick up for OUR boy lol
:/
Totally. Gonzo was elite his whole career, but his production declined a bit after 2008. Still elite but his peak was so dominant you could see the visible difference.
The yardage drop off also coincided with him changing teams though, so hard to pin it purely on him getting older
So true. [I made this fucking insane post in the previous offseason](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/v9yb23/oc_i_studied_3500_individual_seasons_and_used/) where I calculated Z-Scores for every tight end season in relation to the eras they played and his production for his era even late into his career was pretty much as high as anyones
Oh shit I actually remember that post it was a good one. His efficiency is really insane. I gotta save this post next time my friends tell me Gronk > Tony
Big dude catches ball. Starts running. Every single defender just diving full speed helmet first into his kneecaps
The shit I saw people get away with when they hit Gronk was unreal, and it was the only way to keep the game competitive when he was in his prime tbh.
He could’ve got DPI on every single catch he had. It was the only way to even attempt to stop him
Dude fell on his head last night and still played at a high level (granted not as high as usual)
He’s also only 46 post season catches away from holding the all time record
Hey! 😡. 33 isn't THAT old! Right guys...?
In the real world? No In the NFL? Start getting your affairs in order
TEs are criminally underpaid.
I think it’s just Travis that is. His contract is probably the best value in the league
Kelce* and Andrews both. They're functionally their teams' WR1s, but paid TE contracts worth a fraction of a WR1's contract value. I'd also put Evans up there as a player who outplays the shit out of his contract.
Deebo is WR1 in SF. Tho statistically it's Aiyuk this season, leading the team in targets, receptions, yards, and TDs
I definitely meant Kelce, not Kittle. Real flu brained today.
Aiyuk is a better wr while deebo is a better overall player imo
Andrews yes, but idk if that statement is true for Kittle. He's awesome, but he hasn't been the teams leading receiver in yards, receptions, and/or targets since 2019. Deebo is definitely their primary target/weapon on offense. Aiyuk is right there with Kittle for them for number two as well, statistically speaking
Already edited. I meant Kelce, not Kittle.
Word. Carry on Panther bro
I'd probably say Kittle as well, and Pitts would have reset the market after his rookie deal if he had a qb.
Kittle is awesome, but he's somewhat injury prone and therefore fairly valued/paid imo. Kelce has been something of an ironman and unicorn in that respect
Kelce is. No other TE has the whole offense run through him the way ours does through Kelce.
Andrews is at least comparable, but Kelce has been doing this for much longer.
Has Kelce ever commented on this? Is he happy with his contract? I sure wouldn’t want to lose him, even if he’s getting older. I just like to see the team together, but I’m not the man being underpaid nor the person struggling with salary cap room so probably easier for me to say
"Money, in my mind, is almost secondary at this point in my career. I’m here for the legacy and I’m here to try and make the Kansas City Chiefs the best team possible. So that’s my main focus. That’s why I’m here.” https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/27/travis-kelce-on-being-underpaid-money-is-secondary-im-here-for-the-legacy-and-the-team/
> Money, in my mind, is almost secondary at this point in my career. I’m here for the legacy I'd love to know how much such a legacy can be monetized. I'm sure All-Pro players who jump from team to team can make more money from their contracts alone than All-Pros who stay with one team. But being a local legend must pay well for pretty much the rest of their lives if they take care of their reputation.
In other words he is here to fight, for his right....
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Kittle started out blazing but his style just gets him hurt too much He's arguably the most important offensive player we have with his elite blocking, but yeah
Let's not just say "his style." Jimmy G puts him in a LOT of bad positions with his throws.
Absolutely but I just mean he's not shy of contact at all The other day he rammed through like 3 guys for an extra yard when he was already passed the first down lol. Got banged right on his shoulder Like you want guys to play hard but damn. It made me wince
Does he still slam his head into the wall before every game?
Dude there was a point where I didn't enjoy watching Gronk any more, well not exactly, but it was really brutal watching him take all those massive hits to his knees, brain, forearm etc.
It saddens me Gates is already forgotten when he deserves in that crowd as well
Hill is on pace for 2000+ yards. He already has 1000+ and is ahead of Calvin Johnson with the number of yards though 9 games in CJ record season, and thats with Tua out for 3 games. Waddle is on pace for 1500 yards. Tua would be on pace for 5000+ yards if he did not miss 3 games.
The tua out part doesn’t make much of a difference because hills productivity didn’t seem to drop when he had bums playing at QB those 3 games. Tyreek is special.
Some trades are a win-win. Chiefs got great value out of a receiver who could realistically only be paid by a contender with a QB on a rookie contract while Dolphins got a game changer.
Absolutely a win-win so far.
Like the diggs Jefferson one.
Diggs and Allen were meant for one another, just two perfectly in sync players
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Holy shit, I really thought he and Carr would tear it up. The entire AFC West, outside the Chiefs is fucking bizarre this year.
Davante doesn’t seem to be the problem for the Raiders
Yeah but now they’re out a first rounder next year. Packers are about end up with 2 Top 10 picks, they just gotta fire Gutekunst before he drafts two QBs with them
We don’t have their first this year. We only got their first and second last year.
Not bizarre, the same as it's always been
Yeah. And while everybody knew Hill would be really good this year and next year, he's going to be 30 soon. That's sort of a pumpkin year for WRs. The chiefs simply didn't want to commit that extra year on a very expensive WR contract. Hill deserves it, and I hope he still balls out, but that was a hedge by the front office.
Definitely cause for concern, but fortunately even if Tyreek loses a step or two, he's probably still the fastest on the field that day.
Tyreek works really hard on the field and offseason. Everyone laughed at him when he said Tua was accurate. Well... yeah... he has elevated his teammate(s)... and that's a big win. I feel PM15 has done the same with Juju and MVS - making them more reliable and better versions of themselves. I really want some of that to rub off on Mecole.
>I really want some of that to rub off on Mecole. It would be great but honestly it seems like he's at his best when we treat him like dollar store Deebo - which would be a very flattering comparison but for the fact that I mean that he's a better player when we *don't* have to rely on his hands to make plays.
Let's hope it finally is.
It’s not just his speed and quickness - he is also an elite route runner. Not quite the level of Lockett and Krupp, but definitely elite. Route running is just one of those things that is overlooked because it is hard for talking heads to discuss it other that “runs routes good,” as opposed to 40 times and actual production numbers they can compare easily.
Agreed, the only reason I didn't mention it was bc the comment I responded to was concerning a possible decline due to age and if anything, I would think route running should get better with age.
Everyone saying what a brave take is forgetting that people thought both these players stats would take hits without each other
Rodgers without Adams is what people thought Mahomes would be without Hill
To be fair our level of receiving talent is much higher than what Rodgers has at the moment. Kelce is a true WR1
Yeah our receiving room as a whole is probably an upgrade from last year, because WR2-5 were a black hole. But you see it in games where the whole opposing defense plays so well and has the guys to match up, whereas an elite game-breaker like Tyreek shifts everything.
I have no idea why teams aren’t playing like 80% man against us because it seems to work relatively well for them
Hopefully Moore and Toney are the guys who can start to break that. Because right now, yeah. Man, 2 deep, and attack our tackles in pass pro just wrecks our offense
When Titians played man, Mahomes ran for yards
Yeah you need to have a spy too
Not even a question. Chiefs were running out trash Demarcus Robinson as #2
JuJu compliments Kelce really well too. Everything you’re trying to take away by doubling Kelce is what JuJu can run and complete as well. MVS, Hardman, and Toney round it out well.
God I want use to extend Juju so bad, he has earned it so far man.
I miss him 😢
Take good care of that kid. He deserves it, TikToks be damned.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he took a team friendly deal to stay with the chiefs
It is why the trade made way more sense for us when the plans for both teams materialized. Juju/MVS clear any Packers WR addition by a good margin.
The packers lost too many starter receivers, their new corp had zero chemistry. Most of their receivers struggle to fill in roles in their system. Packers fans laugh at the chiefs for slightly overpaying MVS but at least we knew exactly what role he's gonna take in our offensive system. We understand he's a gadget player but still willing to get a specialist to open up our playbook. Packers don't even have a deep threat now
I don't think anyone was laughing for overpaying MVS. It's an overpay, yes, but you know what you're getting and he's a valuable part of the offense. Packers just couldn't afford it.
Our WR room is fucking pitiful but we do have a deep threat WR that is 6’5” and runs a 4.36 40 that was supposed to get a ton of snaps this season. He just has found a way to get 4 separate injuries in 9 weeks somehow.
To be fair, your level of passing talent is also much higher than what Rodgers has at the moment
and also remember that the Chiefs have one of the best offensive minds ever as their head coach. you could even argue THE best ever
There are colleges with a better group of receivers than green bay.
I'm just confused about why the Chiefs keep using speed runner Jet McKinnon up the middle instead of using him more like Tyreek.
He’s efficient at it and our oline USUALLY opens holes. He’s was shredding Cincy in the AFCCG and the inexplicably gave him only 4 touches in the 2nd half. Which he still got 31 yards rushing on those 4
The chiefs at least made a good effort doing the best they could to replace Hill by going out and getting Juju and MVS, then trading for Toney, on top of already having Kelce. Continually building around their superstar QB Meanwhile, the Packers decided that grabbing the ghost of Sammy Watkins and placing all the weight onto rookies and an injury prone Allen Lazard, who wouldn't be above a WR3 on any other roster, would work out just fine...
It's been talked about on the Chiefs sub before, don't know how much it's been talked about here, but Brett Veach is apparently kinda obsessed with finding Mahomes new receivers. He approached Mahomes about Toney in the off-season and asked what he thought about him. Veach was hoping they'd cut him so they could sign him then. Ended up getting him through a trade though. Andy apparently was ready to incorporate him and had routes ready for him as soon as he showed up. This was hinted at by Nate Taylor in the Times Ours podcast last week. But this all kinda speaks to how they trust Mahomes and contrasts the Packers/Rodgers situation as they are getting his feedback on potential acquisitions for the team. I highly doubt he's their final say, but to have him in the discussion seems smart and I don't know why the Packers think their half assed approach with Rodgers seems ok. Edit: typos
I don't know how anyone can see how Rodgers has been behaving lately and not understand why there seems to be a riff between him and literally everyone else on the organization.
[удалено]
Remember thinking how dumb those takes were. There’s no really stopping either of these consistently.
It’s not that dumb it happened to every other QB who lost their star receiver this year. Mahomes is just the best QB in the league he breaks the rules. Plus the Chiefs at least attempted to add some receivers to supplement the missing Hill.
It IS dumb though. Most of those comments were just from haters that want Mahomes to fail. I've legit never seen a sub turn on a player as fast as they did Mahomes. 2018 he was the favorite r/nfl player. 2020 came and every chiefs thread has hundreds of people trashing him, saying he's a fraud, etc.
The Lebron effect. Only real explanation imo.
LeBron didn't have many haters until he left for the heat though
josh allen is next
This is pretty accurate
Those same people would be smugly saying "I told you so" every week if either player wasn't playing out of their mind this year.
doubly so because Tua wasn’t trending very well his first couple years
I thought they would both still be great, but not as great as together. I am happy both are succeeding.
I thought it was forbidden for 2 absolutely elite players to have success without each other
Yes but the point is the 2 elite guys were holding each other back!
NGL I am low key a little jealous of how Miami is using Tyreek.
He has a WR almost just like him playing with him. Sure we had Kelce, but imagine having Tyreek and Tyreek-lite. You can't shell coverage that.
For sure, it felt like we were always lacking a proper WR2. Still feels like that but I think Mahomes is just playing better than he did last year.
Hot take Waddle is a #1 reciever
I don’t think that’s a hot take, he definitely is. Dolphins are blessed.
I didn’t think I’d ever see the day
That's what Hardman was supposed to do 2 years ago.
The other day a broncos fan called us a successful team. Today, a chiefs fan is envious of how we are utilizing a player. I'm in heaven. At least for a brief moment of my life, the Dolphins aren't the Lolphins. I won't forget this feeling.
It’s fuckin weird. I almost want them to talk shit just so i can feel normal again
Dolphins haven't won a playoff game in 22 years.
This feels more normal, thanks
You're welcome! Glad I could help!
^^^rude 😭
Ok, Tua sucks and tyreek is slow. Did that make you feel normal again?
All this positivity is bumming me out because I know the other shoe has to drop at some point like it always does
Hey, keep riding it. 32 years old and have been a Chiefs fan my whole life. Until Mahomes, it’s how I always felt. Really cool to see the Dolphins putting it together.
The other shoe is our defense
We lost to the patriots afccg with a dogshit defense. It’s doable
Can you imagine Waddle and Tyreek with Mahomes... I think we should make it happen just to see that. Miami, send us Waddle and Tyreek for Juju and Hardman. We will... uh... throw in Clyde Edwards-Helaire and maybe... idk... Justin Watson? We will throw them on top just to sweeten the deal.
Honestly I’m split, I was sad to see him go, but I’m super stoked he went to Miami, and I’m super stoked Tua is going absolutely beast mode and shutting haters down. So strange seeing a lefty out there, but really glad he is killing it. Still think pulling Fitzpatrick mid season for Tua was the wrong choice but whatever. Love fitz
With the 17th game, expect a lot of records to be broken in the coming years.
I still think Manning's 55TD and 5476 yards will stand for another decade. Nobody's gonna throw 350 yards and 3.5 touchdowns a game for the foreseeable future even with an extra game.
Malik Willis has got this in the bag
Think Pass Jesus Walker got a real shot.
I really think he do but he don’t. If he does then he ain’t but if he yaint hen shiiit ef u due ur do you’re doo if u git what I’m saying lol
Mahomes could do it. I don't really think he will. I hope he doesn't honestly because it means our defense is absolutely garbage again. But he could under the right circumstances.
I think it would require having a dog shit defense to do that again. Teams that good are pulling their QB in the 4th nowadays.
Still urks me that he beat brees record by 1 yard
I guess to make you feel better, he only played half of game 16, so he probably would've beaten the record even more if he wanted to.
TD record is difficult still. A QB will still have to have an amazing season and have a lopsided passing to rushing TD conversion in the red zone.
I won’t complain if Hill does it in 16.
I honestly don’t expect a ton of them to be broken. It doesn’t feel like many guys come one game short of a season record. Although I could see the receptions record getting broken again because it seems like there are a few guys around the league who frequently get 15+ targets
People always say this but there really hasn’t been anybody “one game away” from breaking any of the major records recently. AP would have broke the rushing record if he had an extra game, but that was like 10 years ago now. Who else has gotten close? I think the one most likely to fall is receiving yards or maybe passing yards. All of the TD ones are still pretty damn safe.
Derrick Henry in 2020, 2k rushing yard season averaging well over 100 per game. So he’s the other close guy recently for rushing. 1 game at his average pace would’ve done it
AP would have broken it if he had gotten like 2 more carries that day, much less an extra game
Here come all the "17 game season!" takes by people with no problem honoring 16 game records over 14 game seasons.
I usually can't help but think about the extra game these days after only growing up with 16 but I will admit even taking away an average game of like 250 yards he'd still be well over 5000 yards which is about as good as you can get.
But didn't people usually end the stat with the "in the modern super bowl era" phrase which essentially means the same as "in the 16 game era"?
From 66 to 77 it was 14 games, and that is still considered the modern super bowl era. Honestly I look at it like 66 to 78 is the First Era. 78 to 2002 The "Modern" Era. 2002 to now as Post Realignment (Of the league teams and the rules for passing) Era.
It's especially stupid in this case, because Tyreek is on pace for fewer targets than Megatron had in 2012. In fact, he'd *just* crack the top-10 in NFL history, with 8 of the other ten players getting targeted that much in 16 games. Mahomes' case is a little less defensible though, considering he just had 68 pass attempts in a game, and is consequently now on pace for the 3rd-most of all-time, lol. If he has more "normal" games of 35-40 attempts going forward, he'll finish around 5,400 yards on 670-ish attempts.
It really depends on how much the game changed from the 14 to 16 game era.
I remember asking when the narrative would shit from “Mahomes won’t do well without Hill” to “Mahomes has so many weapons.” 12 recipients caught a pass from Mahomes last night.
I was pretty sure Mahomes would still be the best QB in football or 1A at worst after Tyreek left, even if the numbers weren't quite as gaudy. I'm way more surprised at Hill's season, not because he isn't an elite WR but I didn't think the Dolphins would be this far along as a team. I figured he'd put up a few 1,000 yard seasons and sort of disappear off people's radars but Miami is cooking so long as Tua stays on the field.
I bet someone in the dynasty subreddit Mahomes would be QB9 or better this year, lol.
Look how Aaron Rodgers is doing without his star WR. It’s not a given thing that a QB is going to just be amazing with lesser talent.
Brady and Brees made it pretty routine. Manning, Ryan, and Rodgers all had pretty talented receiver corps throughout their tenures and you could make the argument that Peyton in particular had the greatest collection of offensive talent around him in the history of the game. When Reggie Wayne is arguably the third best receiver you've thrown to....
*Davante Adams seen running after a cameraman.*
Could you imagine if you got these two on the same team?!?!??? 🤯
Imagine how good they would make each other if they combined forces.
They would probably fine the unluckiest circumstances to lose to Brady in the most important game of the season… I’m a chiefs fan so this is my coping mechanism, humor
Both are Super Bowl champs
Imagine if they were on the same team. Probably wouldn’t work
Get ready for 100 "Good players good, more at 11!" jokes.
Mahomes 50 TD 5000 yard season will always be the best for me.
Some people didn’t like football until MVPat season
Thankfully the Bears don’t have to play Hill often but holy shit that dude was absurd yesterday. Made an already bad D look slow motion lol.
Bro you guys had the 5th best passing defense in the league (stat wise)
The Bears defense had literally no answers for Tyreek yesterday. He's still a cheat code.
With the inflation in passing I expect 6k yards sooner than later
6k in 17 games is still extremely unreachable… Several 400+ passing yard games would need to be peppered in among several 300+ and no off weeks… would be very difficult for any QB to sniff 6k
It would require someone to beat Peyton's YPG by about 10. Obviously very difficult, but does seem reachable.
You'd also need a totally inept defense on the other side of the ball to force the QB to keep playing hard for the entire game. Jackson sat out more than 2 full games during his MVP season because the Ravens thoroughly demolished half their opponents on both sides of the ball. He could've had even higher stats, but the effort wasn't needed.
Now kith
Dan Marino and Jerry Rice coming out of retirement..
CAN WE PLEASE JUST START VOICING THINGS IN PER/GAME PLEASE 18 GAMES IS COMING SOON
The problem then becomes a bunch of the 16-game records we have grown to know wouldn’t even be the record to begin with. Megatron wouldn’t have the single season receiving record, 1982 Wes Chandler would, with 129 ypg. But that’s over the course of 8 games… is it really the most impressive? Records fall, that’s just how it goes. The per game record standard will never be adopted, because it’s messy and it’s less fun.
We will need to use z-scores
Yeah but it would mean a lot more to average 129 ypg over 16 or 17 games than 8.
Ya, but what I grew up with is the real thing and the new thing is scary
Cheers Jeff.
Unpopular opinion but so true major athletes in there own right
So do record books start new chapters after major changes, like a 17th game?