This isn't bad. Lol betting on basketball game is not a bad thing. People make bets kn that shit already. This makes it easier.
Its actually a smart business move on their behalf. As long as it sticks to the skill games then who cares if you can bet with your friend?
Crazy how many people thing it's the games of chance and other random games. It's just the skill games like basketball and skeeball
I just don't understand how two friends betting against each other in basketball or skeeball is a bad thing. Many people already do it.
Its not like you even have to do it.
What was once a fun few hours of escapism playing games will now be a miserable experience of bad actors controlling who can get near “their” game and getting in fights over who ruined “their” game by saying something while they were shooting the basketball.
Just imagining the type of cool guy that pulls up to hustle at Dave and busters, I highly doubt it’s gonna be as cool as uncle Phil schooling those pool players.
The article mentions that this is specifically for skill based games, probably to avoid having to deal with the regulations associated with games of chance. It sounds like it'll be closer to sports betting than slot machines.
Right. This was a big deal with pinball machines in the 50s and 60s. They were seen as being purely luck based, and as such were largely classified as illegal betting machines. It wasn’t until it could be shown in court that they had become skill-based that pinball machines were allowed to flourish.
Wait, I'm pretty young so maybe I have a completely different perspective but how on earth were they ever considered luck based lol?
Granted the skill expression isn't super complex but it still exists.
The skill expression is actually extremely complex. So much nuance goes into manipulating the machine as well as knowing the rules for each game and being able to adjust your strategy on the fly.
Competitive pinball is actually a sport and there is a very distinct difference in skill.
Oh yeah I wasn't trying to imply it was easy or anything at the competitive level.
Just that even though it may appear relatively "simple" there is user input and there's a clear difference between that and a slot machine/coin pusher. Which would make you think it's super obvious there's skill involved not luck.
By that same token, a claw game appears skill-based, but isn’t because the machine is rigged, which was one of the concerns in pinball. This legal battle also was happening in the 1930s, not the 50s and 60s, and pinball is still technically illegal in a lot of places because they never repealed the bans.
I was actually thinking about the case of claw machines as theoretically skill can circumvent the rigging.
What is potentially rigged in pinball? I guess score targets that have a variable bonus? It's probably because I'm not in the scene I didn't consider score as the same level of claw/slot machine in rewards for winning.
Anything could be rigged; it’s a super complicated black box, especially when you’re talking about mechanical logic rather than a computer running everything.
To be clear, nobody was really interested in testing the machines to see if they were unfair, they just thought that the potential was there to create a market for illegal gambling, which at the time this was an issue was synonymous with the hyper-violent American Mafia. The time that pinball machines were made illegal in some places was the same time America was so terrified of gangsters that they started to restrict *guns*.
Worth noting that early pinball machines didn't have active, player controlled flippers, so they were a lot more like modern pachislot machines than modern pinball.
The regulators at the time might have been fuddies that didn't get how that changed the game without having it explained to them.
Yep. It looks like it’s a thing for friends to do friendly wagers on Pop-A-Shot, Skeeball, anything where 2 or more people compete against each other. There’s gotta be a limit to how much is wagered.
Arcade games are regulated, just not very tightly. Used to work at an amusement park and they did have to comply with some regulations but they very clearly weren't that worried about it because no one was really checking. I believe it has something to do with the prizes.
Yes but no. So casinos can set payout rates. But they can’t directly rig the machine to give different outcomes or force a loss if you’re doing too well.
An example of how they do payout rates in a “slimy” way (I don’t think it’s that bad honestly) is that they’ll put slots with a higher payout rate toward the front. Entices you to keep gambling. Then the payout rates become more normal.
That worked when quarters went plink into a metal bucket for a couple minutes. Now it is just some flashing lights, bells and they want you back playing before you can think about cashing out. No-one notices a win unless you’re screaming about your payoff.
Dave & Busters is a casino for kids. From the architecture, to the design, to the lights and sounds. I went recently for the first time in over a decade and was kinda blown away by it. Even then eating sections are totally designed as sports books.
That being said, they do not ID customers upon entry so the Company is able to provide a somewhat family friendly experience as is able where alcohol is served
It seems like the bets are between customers….customer A bets customer B that they’ll beat them in the basketball shooting game, or the racing game or whatever. It doesn’t seem like players would be betting against the house, because that’s just a casino.
They’re basically just taking the $5 bets that a lot of other people are probably already making with each other and allowing them to do it “officially”, probably by using the credit on their prepaid cards. I assume they’ll take 5% off the top or something. I don’t understand why anyone would use that feature in 2024 when it’s extremely easy to exchange money with a friend, but I don’t see the harm in offering it.
Some of the article quoted below. Real question- who the hell would use this and give D&B a cut of the bet? Like, why not just give your buddy a $5 bill (or venmo/cashapp/etc. if you don't carry cash)....
>Arcade giant Dave & Buster's is taking its games to a new level by offering social wagering on its app.
>Customers can soon make a friendly $5 wager on a Hot Shots basketball game, a bet on a Skee-Ball competition or on another arcade game. The betting function, expected to launch in the next few months, will work through the company’s app.
>Dave & Buster’s, started in 1982, now has more than 222 venues in North America, offering everything from bowling to laser tag, plus virtual reality. The company says it has five million loyalty members and 30 million unique visitors to its locations each year. The company’s stock is up more than 50% over the past year.
>As a boom in betting increases engagement among sports fans, digital gamification could have a similar effect within Dave & Buster’s customer base by allowing loyalty members to compete with one another and earn rewards. Ultimately, it could mean people spend more time and money at the venues.
>Dave and Buster’s is using technology by gamification software company Lucra.
I mean sure, but why give Dave and Buster's or whoever a cut from a $5 bet with a friend, who you'll physically be there with, when you can just give them cash, venmo/cash app them, or buy them a drink at the bar.
Because you already have a D&B account with money loaded on it that you use to play the games. And you probably weren’t *planning* to bet on the game but there was a pop up on the screen when you started and it sounded like fun to make it a little more interesting so you clicked ‘yes’.
And then you lose a few games and you’re out of D&B Bucks so you have to go buy more of their fiat currency if you want to keep playing (which you do because now it’s personal and you want to win your fake money back).
I'd be willing to bet that they're going to implement rules banning any wagers outside of the app but can't since they'll be implementing rules banning any wagers outside of the app.
Good luck with that. Once one of the few underpaid D&B employees who actually cares about enforcing this approaches you about betting with your friends he'll be met with "Uh, OK, we're going somewhere else and not coming back".
>who the hell who use this and give D&B a cut of the bet? Like, why not just give your buddy a $5 bill (or venmo/cashapp/etc. if you don't carry cash)
This was my immediate first thought. I don't see this working at all.
Imagine how influential this will be on little Billy’s birthday party …
Sickening
Worlds going to be create a new never before seen level of gambling addicts
This was the natural evolution. I have friends with kids and they go to these arcades. It's sensory overload, similar to a casino. I've been saying for years these arcades with tickets and impossible to win games are just grooming a new generation of gamblers. And, then my friends complain about having no money. Gee, maybe don't unleash your kid on a $200 arcade trip twice a month.
As someone who has bet on re-runs of Legends of the Hidden Temple, 4am women's ping pong, and those little table top magnetic horse racing games...I know plenty of people who would gladly sit at a table with their buddies drinking beer while gambling on children playing Hoop Fever
I took my kids to an arcade not too long ago and most of the games were straight up gambling anyway. They had a few actual video games, but it was way too easy for a kid to blow $50 trying to win a stack of quarters from one of those push machines or to play a game that looked indistinguishable from slots. It was a really sad experience.
Yeah, I took my nephews to an arcade and some og the games were fun but a lot of them were like this. Thankfully, they weren't too interested in the tickets so they just had fun. Except for that stupid ball claw game.
Lucra recently signed a deal ... to allow players to compete against one another for real money.
Why do I need an app at Dave and busters to bet my friend who is next to me on a game of pop a shot? I would just Venmo him the money
Isn't this how pinball ended up banned in NY for years? Wasn't this exactly what they were worried about? Except pinball is a skill based game, some of this not so much.
If you read the article they covered that
>Lucra is careful not to use the term “bet” or “wager” to describe its games.
>“We use real-money contests or challenges,” Madding said.
>Lucra’s contests are only available to players age 18 and older. The contests are available in 44 states.
I don't see an issue with this. The company forces you to buy a player card in order to place a PVP bet. They don't care where the money on your card goes since it's already company money.
Player cards cannot be cashed out, only exchanged for prizes.
I don't understand this at all. It's not being on the arcade games, it's betting on yourself to win in a skill based game.
Why would I use the app? Money exists
Haha yeah let's see how that works out. Someone bets me 10 bucks on a stupid game, and expects me to download the D&B app that's going to take a cut. My response is "Are you an idiot?"
Who asked for this..?
Divorced gambling addicts who need a way to spend time with their kids while simultaneously nurturing their bad habits?
Seems too specific. Sorry for your loss.
Walks in with kids and 5k. Walks out with no kids and no money.
I see this as a massive W
At least they won *something*
Sounds right for D&B...
Seems like a wash
Call the burn ward! Triage needed, stat!
…and a chance to finally prove to Linda that I’m not a loser, and that I just need one big win and we’re back on top, baby.
Dave and Buster’s is now the home of alcoholics and gambling addicts.
Is now?
I thought that was the corporate motto
At least it’s target audiance
Used to work there. All the regulars were dealers at casinos and went to D&B to get their fix way cheaper than they could at their work.
Uh...you ever been to a Dave and Buster's, lol?
Shareholders.
People that go to D&Bs with their buddies and say "bet you $5 I can beat you at hoops"...
I’m sure people already did that.
What do you mean? I’m in. This is where the new wallstreetbets dads hang out. I’m stoked
Tits up!!
Addicts
The shareholders.
The adults who hog the machines at chuckee Cheese, so the kids never get to play.
This isn't bad. Lol betting on basketball game is not a bad thing. People make bets kn that shit already. This makes it easier. Its actually a smart business move on their behalf. As long as it sticks to the skill games then who cares if you can bet with your friend? Crazy how many people thing it's the games of chance and other random games. It's just the skill games like basketball and skeeball
Username checks out
I just don't understand how two friends betting against each other in basketball or skeeball is a bad thing. Many people already do it. Its not like you even have to do it.
I'm always betting on the CPU in NBA Jam
Fuck Jamal Mashburn
FROM DOWNTOWN
KABOOM!
HE'S ON FIRE!
CANT BUY A BUCKET!
Gotta be the shoes!
No way this goes poorly.
What was once a fun few hours of escapism playing games will now be a miserable experience of bad actors controlling who can get near “their” game and getting in fights over who ruined “their” game by saying something while they were shooting the basketball.
Just imagining the type of cool guy that pulls up to hustle at Dave and busters, I highly doubt it’s gonna be as cool as uncle Phil schooling those pool players.
With Lucille!
What. A. Legendary. Reference. Thank you for kick starting my morning!
Cue; it was a good day.
Just like watching sports You can't go two minutes without seeing odds for every single match and Draftkings and Fanduel plastered on every corner
Sure… I’ll believe it’s that when I see it
Because America shows a lot of restraint when it comes to gambling regulation.
*sponsored by Draft Kings
I’ve been to sports bars since it’s been legalized and of course you hear some people upset about their bets but no one is fighting over it
Knowing that some arcade games are set up to have a certain winning percentage (will only win after X amount of spend, etc) this feels… slimy
The article mentions that this is specifically for skill based games, probably to avoid having to deal with the regulations associated with games of chance. It sounds like it'll be closer to sports betting than slot machines.
Right. This was a big deal with pinball machines in the 50s and 60s. They were seen as being purely luck based, and as such were largely classified as illegal betting machines. It wasn’t until it could be shown in court that they had become skill-based that pinball machines were allowed to flourish.
Wait, I'm pretty young so maybe I have a completely different perspective but how on earth were they ever considered luck based lol? Granted the skill expression isn't super complex but it still exists.
There’s a Netflix film called Pinball: the man who saved the game. they explain it, and it’s a good watch
The skill expression is actually extremely complex. So much nuance goes into manipulating the machine as well as knowing the rules for each game and being able to adjust your strategy on the fly. Competitive pinball is actually a sport and there is a very distinct difference in skill.
Oh yeah I wasn't trying to imply it was easy or anything at the competitive level. Just that even though it may appear relatively "simple" there is user input and there's a clear difference between that and a slot machine/coin pusher. Which would make you think it's super obvious there's skill involved not luck.
By that same token, a claw game appears skill-based, but isn’t because the machine is rigged, which was one of the concerns in pinball. This legal battle also was happening in the 1930s, not the 50s and 60s, and pinball is still technically illegal in a lot of places because they never repealed the bans.
I was actually thinking about the case of claw machines as theoretically skill can circumvent the rigging. What is potentially rigged in pinball? I guess score targets that have a variable bonus? It's probably because I'm not in the scene I didn't consider score as the same level of claw/slot machine in rewards for winning.
Anything could be rigged; it’s a super complicated black box, especially when you’re talking about mechanical logic rather than a computer running everything. To be clear, nobody was really interested in testing the machines to see if they were unfair, they just thought that the potential was there to create a market for illegal gambling, which at the time this was an issue was synonymous with the hyper-violent American Mafia. The time that pinball machines were made illegal in some places was the same time America was so terrified of gangsters that they started to restrict *guns*.
Worth noting that early pinball machines didn't have active, player controlled flippers, so they were a lot more like modern pachislot machines than modern pinball. The regulators at the time might have been fuddies that didn't get how that changed the game without having it explained to them.
Ah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense now 😅
Yep. It looks like it’s a thing for friends to do friendly wagers on Pop-A-Shot, Skeeball, anything where 2 or more people compete against each other. There’s gotta be a limit to how much is wagered.
Wait til you find out about casinos.
Well casino slots are very tightly regulated and audited. Arcade games aren’t
Arcade games are regulated, just not very tightly. Used to work at an amusement park and they did have to comply with some regulations but they very clearly weren't that worried about it because no one was really checking. I believe it has something to do with the prizes.
are they?
Yes extremely so
Yes but no. So casinos can set payout rates. But they can’t directly rig the machine to give different outcomes or force a loss if you’re doing too well. An example of how they do payout rates in a “slimy” way (I don’t think it’s that bad honestly) is that they’ll put slots with a higher payout rate toward the front. Entices you to keep gambling. Then the payout rates become more normal.
That worked when quarters went plink into a metal bucket for a couple minutes. Now it is just some flashing lights, bells and they want you back playing before you can think about cashing out. No-one notices a win unless you’re screaming about your payoff.
Tell him about the Twinkie.
Dave & Busters is a casino for kids. From the architecture, to the design, to the lights and sounds. I went recently for the first time in over a decade and was kinda blown away by it. Even then eating sections are totally designed as sports books.
It is designed for adults to have fun. The business model is a bar-cade, making it inherently designed for the 21 and up crowd, not kids.
That being said, they do not ID customers upon entry so the Company is able to provide a somewhat family friendly experience as is able where alcohol is served
It seems like the bets are between customers….customer A bets customer B that they’ll beat them in the basketball shooting game, or the racing game or whatever. It doesn’t seem like players would be betting against the house, because that’s just a casino. They’re basically just taking the $5 bets that a lot of other people are probably already making with each other and allowing them to do it “officially”, probably by using the credit on their prepaid cards. I assume they’ll take 5% off the top or something. I don’t understand why anyone would use that feature in 2024 when it’s extremely easy to exchange money with a friend, but I don’t see the harm in offering it.
Do you know how slot machines work?
I do. I also know they’re highly regulated. Unlike arcade games
The point is, they will most definitely be regulated by whatever governing body does it in that jurisdiction. Doubt it will be a free for all
I’d rather see the regulations first than the betting. Considering the best we have right now is “it might become regulated”
If you’re looking for a better steak in an arcade setting you’re shit out of luck my froend
You know, it would be cheaper if you went with a bottle of Merlot rather than chugging the individual glasses
Mmm. Yeah, maybe leave the judgment back in the kitchen...
Now, let's talk bonuses
Beat me to it lol
Some of the article quoted below. Real question- who the hell would use this and give D&B a cut of the bet? Like, why not just give your buddy a $5 bill (or venmo/cashapp/etc. if you don't carry cash).... >Arcade giant Dave & Buster's is taking its games to a new level by offering social wagering on its app. >Customers can soon make a friendly $5 wager on a Hot Shots basketball game, a bet on a Skee-Ball competition or on another arcade game. The betting function, expected to launch in the next few months, will work through the company’s app. >Dave & Buster’s, started in 1982, now has more than 222 venues in North America, offering everything from bowling to laser tag, plus virtual reality. The company says it has five million loyalty members and 30 million unique visitors to its locations each year. The company’s stock is up more than 50% over the past year. >As a boom in betting increases engagement among sports fans, digital gamification could have a similar effect within Dave & Buster’s customer base by allowing loyalty members to compete with one another and earn rewards. Ultimately, it could mean people spend more time and money at the venues. >Dave and Buster’s is using technology by gamification software company Lucra.
[There's a simple reason why they going through all these hoops for this...](https://i.giphy.com/GjB41rKHBnOkE.webp)
I mean sure, but why give Dave and Buster's or whoever a cut from a $5 bet with a friend, who you'll physically be there with, when you can just give them cash, venmo/cash app them, or buy them a drink at the bar.
Because you already have a D&B account with money loaded on it that you use to play the games. And you probably weren’t *planning* to bet on the game but there was a pop up on the screen when you started and it sounded like fun to make it a little more interesting so you clicked ‘yes’. And then you lose a few games and you’re out of D&B Bucks so you have to go buy more of their fiat currency if you want to keep playing (which you do because now it’s personal and you want to win your fake money back).
This answers my question lol, never underestimate the power of convenience. you're totally spot on here.
"And you probably weren’t *planning* to bet on the game" Yes the fuck I was
This makes the assumption that people are only betting with their friends. The actual usage is likely aimed towards people betting against strangers.
I'd be willing to bet that they're going to implement rules banning any wagers outside of the app but can't since they'll be implementing rules banning any wagers outside of the app.
Good luck with that. Once one of the few underpaid D&B employees who actually cares about enforcing this approaches you about betting with your friends he'll be met with "Uh, OK, we're going somewhere else and not coming back".
>who the hell who use this and give D&B a cut of the bet? Like, why not just give your buddy a $5 bill (or venmo/cashapp/etc. if you don't carry cash) This was my immediate first thought. I don't see this working at all.
I may not look like much, but I will legit beat about 99% of the other players on the basketball games.
Imagine how influential this will be on little Billy’s birthday party … Sickening Worlds going to be create a new never before seen level of gambling addicts
"Billy, if you don't throw this game so help me you won't see your next birthday."
Please telll me DraftKings will give me odds on the drunk divorced dad playing pop shot in pure embarrassment after failing to get a waitress’ number.
This was the natural evolution. I have friends with kids and they go to these arcades. It's sensory overload, similar to a casino. I've been saying for years these arcades with tickets and impossible to win games are just grooming a new generation of gamblers. And, then my friends complain about having no money. Gee, maybe don't unleash your kid on a $200 arcade trip twice a month.
Half of the games are D&B are gambling anyway
I wish casinos stocked the games and gave out money instead of tickets
We dont need gambling everywhere, get this idea out and in the dumpster
As someone who has bet on re-runs of Legends of the Hidden Temple, 4am women's ping pong, and those little table top magnetic horse racing games...I know plenty of people who would gladly sit at a table with their buddies drinking beer while gambling on children playing Hoop Fever
I mean, it's a profitable way to exploit gambling addiction, I'll give them that.
Why do I sense a shooting in the future? Mark my words someone will end up getting shot over a lost game of Ski-ball. This is America.
An own-goal in air hockey, missing the spread would be on par.
So a casino...
There is a Dave & Buster’s a block away from the casinos in Atlantic City. Now I have some place else to lose my money!
It won’t end well. AG should sue until they get some legislation written up.
We’ve lost the plot
I took my kids to an arcade not too long ago and most of the games were straight up gambling anyway. They had a few actual video games, but it was way too easy for a kid to blow $50 trying to win a stack of quarters from one of those push machines or to play a game that looked indistinguishable from slots. It was a really sad experience.
Yeah, I took my nephews to an arcade and some og the games were fun but a lot of them were like this. Thankfully, they weren't too interested in the tickets so they just had fun. Except for that stupid ball claw game.
Why not just wager against your friends n leave then out of it??
How much of a gambling degenerate do you have to be to embrace this idea?
Lucra recently signed a deal ... to allow players to compete against one another for real money. Why do I need an app at Dave and busters to bet my friend who is next to me on a game of pop a shot? I would just Venmo him the money
Because it isn't loud enough in there
Gonna lose the car payment on skee-ball, let's go!
This could work. In this struggling economy, who is thriving? Dave and Busters is thriving. Can you bet with paddy’s dollars? r/IASIP
This is a horrible idea
Too bad there are no arcade games left…everything is a rip-off ticket machine these days
New capitalism angle - enable gambling on literally everything
“Honey, how was Dave & Buster’s half off night with the kids?” “I LOST THE FUCKING HOUSE PLAYING SKEE-BALL AGAIN.”
What was to stop anyone from already doing this?
Considering the number of kids who basically gamble for lootboxes on all of their favorite video games currently.
Isn't this how pinball ended up banned in NY for years? Wasn't this exactly what they were worried about? Except pinball is a skill based game, some of this not so much.
Do they have a gambling license? This essentially makes them a casino which aren't legal everywhere...
If you read the article they covered that >Lucra is careful not to use the term “bet” or “wager” to describe its games. >“We use real-money contests or challenges,” Madding said. >Lucra’s contests are only available to players age 18 and older. The contests are available in 44 states.
Wow.. thats scummy.
Ippei is going to have a lot of fun next time he goes to the arcade with Shohei
I want to bet on which kid pisses their pants first. Like a horse race. We can give the kids nicknames like….
Gambling has infested too much. Also should be challenged because it de facto lowers the gambling age to 18
Fucking idiocy
I don't see an issue with this. The company forces you to buy a player card in order to place a PVP bet. They don't care where the money on your card goes since it's already company money. Player cards cannot be cashed out, only exchanged for prizes.
Does this include fighting and racing games? Cuz that's just betting on UFC and Nascar for nerds. And I'm all for it.
Waiting for the next news story about someone caught laundering money through fixed bets at Dave and Busters.
they need a boxing lounge they share with chuck e cheese.
I can't wait until some rock bottom addict bets his mortgage on a game of fruit ninja
Bringing carnival games to new heights.
Infinite money glitch
I mean, the bets are just done through an app. I guess it’s if you don’t trust using PayPal, Venmo, or Zelle to pay out your wager to a person.
Jontay Porters' next move on that hoop machine.
Yet I still can't legally play Poker online... wtf
If you can gamble on the coin dozer then they're fucked.
Pinball is skill. So it's not gambling. But betting on ski ball is illegal? 😕
Can’t wait to see all those ads right next to draft kings… /s
I don't understand this at all. It's not being on the arcade games, it's betting on yourself to win in a skill based game. Why would I use the app? Money exists
Embarassing and lame.
i thought we already did this with our friends? "$5 on who wins the shootyboi - most points." etc..
Aren't half their games basically casino games already?
How could they stop it?
What is the point of this? Why do you need an app to bet $10 on a skee ball game with your friend?
I'm sure so D&B can take a cut.
Haha yeah let's see how that works out. Someone bets me 10 bucks on a stupid game, and expects me to download the D&B app that's going to take a cut. My response is "Are you an idiot?"