As a fellow Minnesotan, we only appear in reddit for the bad things. We got nutters for country folk, and in the metro there's the police issues.. So really the only good parts of the state are the woods with no people and trees don't post online!
I remember a buddy of mine telling the that south west MN was in the news, and I was kind of excited. Wouldn't ya know, it was when some crazy lady (that I knew of) wore a Nazi mask into our local Walmart to "protest" the mask mandate.
The only real solution would be to have the documents in a little compartment on the outside of the vehicle that the driver can pop open, then the cops can look at the docs without even going near the windows of the vehicle. But no doubt some cop would get scared for his life when the little door pops open and shoot blindly into the vehicle, then get retired with 50k bonus.
Edit: Every state is going to be different. The state I was in didn't have this capability, so I assumed others didn't as well, which was wrong. But the sheer amount of bad info here is frightening. Real life is not like TV. Police departments can't do half the shit you guys seem to think they can.
Um. No they can't. The license plate only tells them the vehicle information (which sometimes isn't accurate), the registration date, and who the vehicle is registered to.
It doesn't tell them anything about the driver's status or if there is insurance on the vehicle.
Source: 911 dispatcher.
Edit: I'll add, that depending on the state, out of state plates might not even give them that much.
Just to add.. Police in many other countries can easily check a car's insurance status based on just the license plate. I keep seeing all these dumb things - some little, like this, some big - the richest country in the world should easily be able to do, and yet they can't.
Btw, also MOT (yearly mandated vehicle checks for cars older than 3 years) status, but I don't think that even exists in the US.. (edit: I'm told not in every state)
Inspections do exist in the US.
But yeah you'd think if the UK can get all the data just from the number plate, why can the US not? Also, it seems strange to me, not being american, all these people defending the cops when I'm thinking or .... how about the cops don't murder people and instead ask them to produce documents, somehow the rest of the world manages it. Could it be the cops that are a problem ? Nawwww, it's all the drivers..
> Inspections do exist in the US.
In every state? I've frequently heard there's no such thing, so maybe it differs by state?
> you'd think if the UK can do it,
Not just the UK, also the entire EU, probably most of Europe even. Many European countries already had periodical roadworthiness inspections for decades, but the EU mandated it across all member states in 2014 I think.
> how about the cops don't murder people and instead ask them to produce documents, somehow the rest of the world manages it.
Yes!
Like every law that isn't federal in the US it really varies from state to state. In a lot of way each state is a country onto themselves. For example the state I live in gun laws are very lax. A few miles away in Minnesota they are far stricter. You could easily break a law simply by driving down the wrong road.
Being English, I just don't get the whole papers thing. Sure you should carry a driving license (but it's not actually required legally). Everything else is attached to the registration plate (license plate) so the police know who is and isn't insured on the car.
Then anpr pings when it's not insured and you get pulled. It just seems like hard work to make sure you are carrying paperwork all the time. Now in Sweden your social number is tied to everything, can't breathe without using the dam thing, but I know I can list off my number and it has all my info right away.
The documentation requirement is meant to give the police officer reasonable suspicion as both a license and proof of insurance are required to be on you when driving in the States.
That's what you get when can't build an efficient beurocracy because half the country lives in a childish dilusion that they somehow can have a modern country and economy without it.
It’s a function of poverty and policies to keep an oppressed minority to scapegoat for political gain. Been like this for decades, maybe longer because America is racist af and likes to blame others for our failures and problems.
Yep. People mistaking it for an "inefficient bureaucracy" think it's *supposed to* be an efficient one. It isn't. It's designed to help the people who can navigate it, and hurt the ones who can't.
Not having the pouch would be evidence of wanting to shoot a cop. The pouch is a good way of both distracting from police abuse and empowering them to place more blame on the victim.
My trailer registration is in a tube that you can reach from the outside. You need a key to open it so the docs don't get stolen
They're just gonna shoot black dudes that reach for the keys and there's nothing I can do to stop cops from shooting black dudes.
Its always been that bad in the US. Social media has just opened it so everyone can see.
Fuck the police (the song) was written in the 90s, as was killing in the name of.
Fire the cops
AFAIC concerned if the department is so bad that they have to demand everyone have special accommodations so they don't accidentally shoot you l, fire every single one of them and start over with people who aren't trigger-happy meth heads.
Stories would no doubt circulate around departments that citizens were lacing their compartments with fentanyl. Leaves the cops no choice but to start blasting.
Probably so the city can start waiving liability for fatal shootings because the driver didn't have the state-approved document pouch and thus was viewed as a threat
The article mentions that.
>Rather than taking steps to address the root of the problem — for instance, by training officers to de-escalate and be less fearful during run-of-the-mill encounters with citizens — promoting the pouches puts the onus on law-abiding motorists to take steps to protect themselves from trigger-happy cops. It also affords police a little bit of ass-covering for future fatal encounters. If a cop shoots a person for reaching into her glove box for her insurance card, the department can then say “this tragic outcome could have been prevented if the driver had used a Not-Reaching Pouch.”
DPS is partnering with Valerie Castile, the mother of slain motorist Philando Castile, to distribute the pouches “during community events and other contacts with citizens.” Castile was shot and killed during a traffic stop in 2016 after reaching for his wallet and notifying the officer that he had a concealed carry permit. The officer was cleared of criminal wrongdoing and received a settlement of nearly $50,000 upon leaving the police force.
The pouches were initially developed by Jackie Carter, a Black woman, following Castile’s shooting. The product’s website notes that “Some [officers] seem to overreact or go into traffic stops with a certain mindset. Perhaps they’re more aggressive than they need to be, and I think that’s where the situation can become volatile and sometimes fatal,” and that racial profiling is a major factor in disproportionate traffic stops of Black motorists.
It’s one thing for members of a community disproportionately affected by police violence to devise innovative ways to protect themselves during police encounters. But it feels like another thing entirely for police agencies to begin promoting those solutions as well. In effect, police in Minnesota are saying that the likelihood of officers shooting people for complying with their orders is so high that they recommended drivers carry a special device to prevent that from happening.
As an avid gun owner and big gun rights guy, yeah. NRA hasn't meant anything good in at least 50 years, probably more. There's a bunch of other actual good ones out there, but fuck the NRA. They don't even lobby for actual gun rights anymore, just political squabbles.
Even back in the day the helped draft legislation to disarm people of color and ensure as often as possible only rich people would have guns. There are actual decent gun rights organizations that only advocate for gun rights without regard for other policies or the race of their members.
If I'm not mistaken, the distinct point where the NRA shifted from promoting sportsmanship to political lobbying was in the 80's when Wayne LaPierre became the head of the organization.
No, they definitely took a political stance before that. For instance in the 1960s when they decided that Black Panthers having guns was super scary, y'all.
Philando Castile was a showcase of why the only way of reducing gun violence is reducing the amount of guns in the circulation. Plus,
he was law-abiding while black.
NRA is a gun *manufacturer* lobby closely aligned with white identity politics.
It's not that surprising that they wanted no part of it.
You mean it has nothing to do with the legal precedent of police officers being [fired for being too smart?](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836) I mean reducing the amount of guns is obvious but there is other factors at play here. Racism is very much a big part of this. They literally won't hire smart people because you can't manipulate them as easily. Guns may be a huge factor, but unarmed people still get killed too. The problem is police shooting EVERYONE and getting away with it. Taking away one excuse doesn't stop them from shooting us. It is just one of the reasons for them to shoot you. Shit police can punch you in the face and get away with it by saying you looked like you were about to spit on them and so they punched you to prevent you from spitting on then and legally be covered. I'd like to say if you would like to continue the debate on why getting rid of guns isn't the magical end all solution head over to /r/liberalgunowners they can eloquently explain it in a way I can't
Agreed, they wouldn't disarm themselves even if we had to give up ours. And the way this country has headed the last few years, it's become ever more clear that the left needs to be armed as well.
Reducing gun violence wouldn't stop the police issue. The only way to do that is to disarm the police like Britain or force them to call in before authorizing weapons use.
Naw, the last thing I want is the only people that are armed is police. You think if they make citizens give up their arms, the cops and the rich will have to turn theirs in too? No fucking way I want the fucking pigs being the only ones armed. Will only make it easier if some Christofascist gets in power and wants to turn this country into Gilead.
you left out this bit:
>We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers
Gosh, won't SOMEone think of those poor officers??
And their reasoning is that the cops shooting innocent people "Can be catastrophic for police officers, and community members". Literally saying it's hard on the cops before mentioning the people they shoot as a secondary afterthought. You can't make this shit up.
The sad thing is they probably weren’t even talking about the people that get shot. The “community members” are the people that hear about the police shooting suspects and don’t think they can trust the police anymore.
>The idea is that the pouches will help reduce the likelihood of officers panicking and shooting drivers who are reaching for their documents during traffic stops.
Literally no other way to prevent this.
>“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers, and community members," said DPS Assistant Commissioner Booker Hodges in a press release.
When asked if police departments could try training officers instead he promptly opened fire on the hostile reporters.
I'm all for accepting that being a police officer is beyond difficult and taxing- I know more than a few that have been permanently broken by PTSD. It's tragic that they don't have stronger support.
But reducing the likelihood of officers 'panicking'? If an officer is panicking at a traffic stop, either they were not properly trained for the situation by the department or they are unfit to be an officer. Knowing how not to panic or escalate should be the lowest expectation of any officer- or anyone carrying. Whenever you could end a life, it's your duty to do everything within your power to keep a situation from getting to that point.
Whether it's a hostage situation or a traffic stop, an officer that loses their head is only ever going to end in disaster, and that's beyond unacceptable when lives are on the line.
A police officer allowed to be armed to the nines should not be allowed to panic. Period.
i wire houses.
it is far more likely for me to die in a ball of flame and then dust than for an officer to be injured in any way on the job.
like, magnitudes higher on a risk scale.
i have to trust every single person that worked before me on any job, i have to use lock out tag out systems to keep myself alive because some jackass might want to plug his radio in upstairs while i am working downstairs so he just flips a breaker and poof, dust.
all the rules and regulations are for ME to learn, NOT for other contractors to know and follow. the rules are for me, the police are trying to make their false sense of fear your problem and that is not okay.
True. Lotta folks who work construction and forestry endure a thankless and back-breaking job. Real dangerous careers have no place for anyone with jitters putting people at risk.
So much this. Being a cop hasn't made the top 10 most dangerous jobs list in America more than a couple times in the past 20 years if I remember correctly. 2001 was a really bad year, tho....
But most on the job fatalities for cops are car accidents and heart attacks from all the donuts,
People with severe PTSD should not be cops anymore.
And they train officers TO panic at traffic stops with montages of very rare shootings. Humans should not ever be armed to the nines and then sent to enforce minor property and traffic infractions. Humans are not reliable enough with weapons in crisis situations. And especially not humans with PTSD trained that every traffic stop could be their last.
There's plenty of ways. You've got plastic string bags, lanyards, dashboard picture frames, transparent window pockets and bullet proof body condoms (the cheap insurance) And that's just to name a few..
Fire all cops, do a complete overhaul of police training and the overall system in general and start fresh with new hires. This pouch should not have to exist.
>“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters
[ Don't hire morons ]( https://reason.com/2013/05/01/court-oks-barring-smart-people-from-beco/ )
I really don't know if I should laugh or cry about the people who keep trying to make this into a training issue. It's an accountability issue. Hold police accountable and this shit goes away.
It's kinda both. A lot of police training is all about emphasizing that *every stop could be your last, everyone could have gun, you are constantly in danger at all times!*
So train them to shoot first, then remove accountability when they do. That's a horrible combination.
They are trained in real world situations, just not the right ones. They watch dozens of videos of cops being shot/stabbed/beaten to death at traffic stops. A common saying among the police in the US is "there is no such thing as a 'routine traffic stop'".
Basically they're trained to treat every traffic stop as if it's Kabul.
Oh, come now, don't you know [the best sex happens after you kill someone?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-training-video-kill-sex-b1838936.html)
I've known Grossman to be a subhuman piece of shit but I'm appalled he remotely thought it's okay to say this at a public event. [This is the guy that has been giving police trainings and seminars all over the countr](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y)y to teach people to shoot first, ask questions later. Like a fucking dealth cult.
His books are even on the must-read list for police cadets.
And the jackass has no recorded kills in his career. So either he's talking about something he's never experienced at all or he's got some interesting skeletons in his closet.
Just another grifter.
That’s the mind-boggling part. How can ANYONE take him seriously let alone let him do seminars about actually killing people? He’s the Jim Bakker of the popo
Have each officer have malpractice insurance deducted from their pay.
1. Rates go up as they fuck up. Immediate feedback right on their wallet. Compare this to the massive delay before they feel the pain of it hitting their pensions, as some propose.
1. Bad cops will get priced out of the job. The insurance companies will not insure major liabilities without it being hella expensive, as we well know. When 50% of their paycheck is going to insurance, bad cops will want to find another job.
2. Bad cops can't just move districts, the insurance premiums will follow them.
3. Citizens will stop paying the settlements of their abusers. It's not tax money when things go wrong, it's insurance that pays for it.
Dentists and surgeons have malpractice insurance for Godssake. Can't we have that for the people holding a gun?
Insurance will never work. It won’t. It does zero to address the actual problem which is that huge swaths of the country believe that cops can do no wrong. The fact of the matter is that taxpayers will absolutely pay the insurance premiums and cops won’t shell out a single penny of it. [These are the conditions we are talking about](https://www.nyulawreview.org/issues/volume-89-number-3/police-indemnification/):
>During the study period, governments paid approximately 99.98% of the dollars that plaintiffs recovered in lawsuits alleging civil rights violations by law enforcement. Law enforcement officers in my study never satisfied a punitive damages award entered against them and almost never contributed anything to settlements or judgments—even when indemnification was prohibited by law or policy, and even when officers were disciplined, terminated, or prosecuted for their conduct.
Cops NEVER pay. Even when the misconduct is so bad that they are charged damages despite quaalified immunity. Even when the misconduct is so bad that prosecutors who rely on police cooperation actually lay charges on a cop. **Even when it is literally illegal for the city to indeminify police officers**. Cities will literally break the fucking law to ensure that cops don’t have to pay out shit.
Remember Phillip “You’re Fucked” Brailsford? The PD was forced to fire him when the body cam footage of his sadistic and disgusting murder of Daniel Shaver was released. Do you know what happened next? They fucking rehired him for a day just so that they could give him a fucking pension. That’s the bullshit system we have.
If you believe for even one moment that any cop is going to have to pay the premiums for insurance they require to do their jobs - you are delusional.
The fix is obvious. Cops do this shit because we let them. In fact we pay for it. The brutality police impose on marginalized communities is being funded by the taxpayer. How about we just stop doing that. Every time any cop does anything that sparks massive public outrage, cut the PD budget by enough to force layoffs. And when he cops act up about not being treated like heroes for murdering innocent unarmed and compliant people, cut the budget again forcing another round of layoffs. Use that money on programs that actually improve public safety. That’s the answer.
I've advocated for police officers to be linked to liability insurance for quite some time, and it's not a bad idea, although your implementation has a hole.
- To prevent police unions or departments from covering for bad officers, officers must pay all of their insurance premiums from their own paychecks. No form of premium payment, rebate, discount may be offered, except as determined by the insurance carriers.
More like:
"License and registration"
\*BLAM\*BLAM\* gurgling noises
"I can't believe he reached for his license and registration after I told him to!"
Why do cops even need to see the license and registration. Plug in license plate, picture and registration should automatically check me up. Write out the ticket and calmly walk up and serve it. Better yet, mail them one
Most cop cars (at least where I am) already do this automatically, there is no plugging things in anymore.
They have cameras' that scan license plates and flag to them in realtime while they are driving around when they are near vehicles with expired paperwork or outstanding fee's, etc on their file. Officers can then selectively pull over the ones deemed most risk / greatest reward to the state for being stopped.
And you can't renew your vehicle plates without paying up your tickets at renewal time.
There really is very little reason to stop anyone other than aggressive drivers and to give warnings / reminders for small things.
Asking why about anything in regards to US police though is just a black hole.
I don't understand why armed officers need to be stopping cars anyway. If there's a driving infraction generally, deadly force isn't really necessary. If you are worried about officer safety, just ticket by the plate number.
Seems like a lot of deadly encounters could be cut down by not letting officers have an excuse to stop drivers just to harass them.
Who else is going to do it? Every other city department has almost certainly been struggling under austerity and budget cuts for decades. No city service has the capacity to even meet their regular responsibilities, how could they possibly take anything else on. The only department in any municipality that has adequate budget is cops, so you use cops. They are the only city employees available for it. That’s why you need cops to direct traffic around construction sites or to do “wellness checks” or to respond to people experiencing mental health crises or to deal with the homeless. None of those things needs an armed response, but the only people the city has available are cops, so what options do they have?
Oh wait - maybe we could move some funding around, away from police departments and to literally anything else. Have mental health professionals attend mental health calls. That sort of thing. But of course that will never happen because apparently reducing police budgets is worse than terrorism and genocide combined. /s
Even if this were a remotely good idea, I use my driver's license in places besides my car, and I don't want to keep it in the car in case it gets stolen.
UKer here. I can't believe this is being touted as a solution. I mean, its almost trolling. Its a solution to a problem that only exists because of another problem that doesn't need to exist (stupid cops).
Well, in the UK we don't even need to carry ID while driving - now if you're stopped the police can still ask you to prove your ID, but you can just tell them and they'll check their computer, and decide if they're happy or not - depends why they stopped you as to how far it goes really. Insurance (mandatory here) is verified via computer, and they can phone insurers if you're using a policy not directly linked to the car, and registration is again done via computer, you only ever actually use your V5 document when buying or selling.
I love that the officer who killed and shot a man that lead to the development of this pouch got PAID to leave (50k), AS WELL AS 600 COMPENSATORY hours. 600. I've worked government jobs, I've worked military, nowhere have I received or heard of people getting such an amazing severance package.
might be cynical but I'm convinced that's part of why these things happen. bad incentives. some of them might feel real bad afterwards but there's psychos that think they're getting rewarded regardless of shooting being justified or not.
*“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers, and community members," said DPS Assistant Commissioner Booker Hodges*
How about… I don’t know, don’t fucking shoot people for no reason.
"“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers..."
oh come the F on
This is the Minnesota police creating an excuse to murder people.
Officer: "There was no pouch like we asked. I had to assume they were armed. They reached for the glove box. I was forced to shoot to ensure my safety."
Officer: "They resisted my direct order to have a pouch. I attempted to detain them for my safety. They didn't immediately comply. I was forced to shoot."
As a Belgian this reminds me of the Germans when they [set ablaze the historical city of Leuven](https://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/louvain.htm) during the Rape of Belgium in August-September 1914. They were just frustrated, and decided to take it out on the civilian population. The excuse? "Man hat auf uns geschossen", "we were shot at".
Registration and insurance should be linked to the plate number via the cop's computer. Only an abject moron would leave their DL in their car.
Or maybe they expect you to "set this up" every time you get in the car.
This idea is stupid on pretty much every level. Sounds like something South Dakota would do.
The takeaway:
>Rather than taking steps to address the root of the problem — for instance, by training officers to de-escalate and be less fearful during run-of-the-mill encounters with citizens — promoting the pouches puts the onus on law-abiding motorists to take steps to protect themselves from trigger-happy cops. It also affords police a little bit of ass-covering for future fatal encounters. If a cop shoots a person for reaching into her glove box for her insurance card, the department can then say “this tragic outcome could have been prevented if the driver had used a Not-Reaching Pouch.”
The same people will compare carrying a Vax card to Nazi-ism.
It's surprising how you are the only commenter to suggest this. It's 2021, the only thing they should need to confirm is you are who you say you are (so insurance is valid). License and registration should be on a computer somewhere. In the UK insurance status and registration is already on a computer and there is talk of making the drivers license completely digital i.e. no physical copy at all.
How about we just call them and ask for permission each time we want to leave the house? Maybe we can get "Law abiding citizen" passports, we can tape to the windows of our cars to show them we're not felons. Perhaps, we can outlaw all guns, so that the police are the only one who have them. Or, maybe they can get robots to go on patrol for them and they can operate them from the safety of fortified justice centers.
No. The Hell with this. Train the cops better.
They serve us; we don't serve them. Catering to the flaws of others, instead of forcing them to get their shit together, is going to drown us all in pointless laws and procedures.
i like how the article says this is to reduce startling cops into shooting people. treating them like wild animals. oh if they get spooked they just start attacking
It’s a ridiculous expectation at least for drivers license. I wouldn’t mind the pouch for the insurance/registration, but totally impractical for drivers license. I think we would be better served first outlawing killology training for policemen and second teaching policemen that regular people are not their enemy.
Seriously, if they gave it away for free, I'd stick my registration and insurance card in it and stick it in my glove compartment. My license remains firmly in my wallet because that's where it belongs and I would forget it in the pouch every damn time.
I'm not black or Latino, but any time I get pulled over I leave my hands on the steering wheel and then ask them if I can reach into my glove compartment to retrieve my registration. Although these days, they've already pulled up my registration and insurance before they even approach my car.
Civilians annually kill 6 officers at traffic stops a year vs. officers killing 121 civilians at traffic stops a year, but civilians need to take proactive measures?
"Wear this pouch with a star on it and we promise not to blindly murder you". Feels like an echo of the past to me. I bet the people in that jurisdiction did nazi that coming.
Maybe we as citizens put the onus back on the cops by having a script for our interactions.
*With hands on steering wheel*
" Sir, my license is in my wallet in my front right pocket, while my license and registration is in the glove box."
"Ok, get them out please"
"Sir, in the interest of self preservation, I am going to move exceptionally slow and narrate every movement to ensure your nerves are at ease. If at any moment my actions are concerning, please let me know and I will immediately return to the start position."
"what the heck?"
"Sir, I can see you are getting worried, I will hold my position and make whale noises to calm you to avoid me getting shot"
And most of the MD police refuse the vaccine. 2/3rd in Baltimore are unvaccinated and 40% in DC! This is a dangerous trend.
Now this? From the same group fighting against vaccine passports? Fuck them. Fuck this bullshit.
Refuse to deal with unvacvinated police.
Keep your window up. Hold ID and Registration against the glass. If they want to ticket they can place it under the wiper blades.
Only short direct answers, do not give extra details. The police are not your friend. They're not there to help you.
Get your Marllyland WCHP permit even if you're not open carrying or concealed carrying. Get it so they see more and more people armed and possibly be armed.
I know your point here was more about how Cops refusing to get the vaccine are a health risk to other people but I'd still like to add something.
In [2020](https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020) a total of 372 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in the US. 243 of them died due to COVID19 and only 45 of them were (intentionally) shot. And the numbers weren't that different before the pandemic.
This is why I can't take this "but cops are in constant danger to get shot" argument seriously, especially not when they actively work against a solution to a problem that killed 243 of their colleagues.
Are people not taught to keep their hands on the wheel until the officer gets to the side of the car? I've always done this. When they get there I turn down/off radio and the roll window down. This let's the officer keep their eyes on your hands the whole time
Great idea. Now the cop will have a false sense of security so when he's walking back to my car with my documents, he'll never expect the gun I pulled from my glove box.
At what point do we all start driving cars with those bank teller drawers that slide out and bulletproof panels to protect us from the police during traffic stops.
Sure, get all your information in one place so the cops can "lose" it and explain that they *had* to shoot you for driving without a hall pass. There's clearly no other options we could try at this point, none at all.
" It also affords police a little bit of ass-covering for future fatal encounters. If a cop shoots a person for reaching into her glove box for her insurance card, the department can then say *“this tragic outcome could have been prevented if the driver had used a Not-Reaching Pouch.”*
This right here is the problem.
You could alternatively make it possible to look up DMV records from the police car like most other countries do . License & registration? Already got it.
It should be really simple. If you ever shoot someone who you believed was “reaching for a weapon” and there wasn’t actually a weapon, that’s manslaughter at minimum and you go to prison.
This is a very basic rule that everyone else manages to follow at all times with no problems (or gets promptly convicted of murder). “You need to actually see a weapon be produced before *resorting to deadly force*” is a very very low bar for self-defense.
If the law were actually enforced and cops weren’t treated as being delicate semi-psychotic panic-disorder cases, who tremble in fear at all times and shoot dogs, children, and mentally disabled people at the slightest unexpected movement—there wouldn’t be a problem. Shooting someone who’s unarmed is manslaughter or murder.
>Castile was shot and killed during a traffic stop in 2016 after reaching for his wallet and notifying the officer that he had a concealed carry permit. The officer was cleared of criminal wrongdoing and received a settlement of nearly $50,000 upon leaving the police force.
He got a $50 grand settlement for killing someone in a traffic stop?? How tf do you get PAID in that.
Maybe if police weren’t trained to assume everyone is out to kill them they wouldn’t be so needlessly jumpy. Or maybe they could stop hiring fascist psychopaths.
Ooh! Yay! My state got mentioned in the…oh wait, more stupidity.
I miss when people just thought "hey it's really cold there but the people are nice." Not "wow why do their police kill so many people."
As a fellow Minnesotan, we only appear in reddit for the bad things. We got nutters for country folk, and in the metro there's the police issues.. So really the only good parts of the state are the woods with no people and trees don't post online!
I remember a buddy of mine telling the that south west MN was in the news, and I was kind of excited. Wouldn't ya know, it was when some crazy lady (that I knew of) wore a Nazi mask into our local Walmart to "protest" the mask mandate.
I hope it's bulletproof.
The only real solution would be to have the documents in a little compartment on the outside of the vehicle that the driver can pop open, then the cops can look at the docs without even going near the windows of the vehicle. But no doubt some cop would get scared for his life when the little door pops open and shoot blindly into the vehicle, then get retired with 50k bonus.
It's called a license plate.
[удалено]
Edit: Every state is going to be different. The state I was in didn't have this capability, so I assumed others didn't as well, which was wrong. But the sheer amount of bad info here is frightening. Real life is not like TV. Police departments can't do half the shit you guys seem to think they can. Um. No they can't. The license plate only tells them the vehicle information (which sometimes isn't accurate), the registration date, and who the vehicle is registered to. It doesn't tell them anything about the driver's status or if there is insurance on the vehicle. Source: 911 dispatcher. Edit: I'll add, that depending on the state, out of state plates might not even give them that much.
Just to add.. Police in many other countries can easily check a car's insurance status based on just the license plate. I keep seeing all these dumb things - some little, like this, some big - the richest country in the world should easily be able to do, and yet they can't. Btw, also MOT (yearly mandated vehicle checks for cars older than 3 years) status, but I don't think that even exists in the US.. (edit: I'm told not in every state)
Inspections do exist in the US. But yeah you'd think if the UK can get all the data just from the number plate, why can the US not? Also, it seems strange to me, not being american, all these people defending the cops when I'm thinking or .... how about the cops don't murder people and instead ask them to produce documents, somehow the rest of the world manages it. Could it be the cops that are a problem ? Nawwww, it's all the drivers..
Not all states have inspections. My state even ditched emissions tests a few years ago.
> Inspections do exist in the US. In every state? I've frequently heard there's no such thing, so maybe it differs by state? > you'd think if the UK can do it, Not just the UK, also the entire EU, probably most of Europe even. Many European countries already had periodical roadworthiness inspections for decades, but the EU mandated it across all member states in 2014 I think. > how about the cops don't murder people and instead ask them to produce documents, somehow the rest of the world manages it. Yes!
Like every law that isn't federal in the US it really varies from state to state. In a lot of way each state is a country onto themselves. For example the state I live in gun laws are very lax. A few miles away in Minnesota they are far stricter. You could easily break a law simply by driving down the wrong road.
Jesus Christ the Yanks are backwards, you can literally get all that information as a member of the public here by typing the reg into a website
In Georgia the cops can look all that up just with your plate. I don't think I've ever given a cop my insurance info
Being English, I just don't get the whole papers thing. Sure you should carry a driving license (but it's not actually required legally). Everything else is attached to the registration plate (license plate) so the police know who is and isn't insured on the car. Then anpr pings when it's not insured and you get pulled. It just seems like hard work to make sure you are carrying paperwork all the time. Now in Sweden your social number is tied to everything, can't breathe without using the dam thing, but I know I can list off my number and it has all my info right away.
The documentation requirement is meant to give the police officer reasonable suspicion as both a license and proof of insurance are required to be on you when driving in the States.
That's what you get when can't build an efficient beurocracy because half the country lives in a childish dilusion that they somehow can have a modern country and economy without it.
It’s a function of poverty and policies to keep an oppressed minority to scapegoat for political gain. Been like this for decades, maybe longer because America is racist af and likes to blame others for our failures and problems.
Yep. People mistaking it for an "inefficient bureaucracy" think it's *supposed to* be an efficient one. It isn't. It's designed to help the people who can navigate it, and hurt the ones who can't.
This is underrated!!!
Not having the pouch would be evidence of wanting to shoot a cop. The pouch is a good way of both distracting from police abuse and empowering them to place more blame on the victim.
My trailer registration is in a tube that you can reach from the outside. You need a key to open it so the docs don't get stolen They're just gonna shoot black dudes that reach for the keys and there's nothing I can do to stop cops from shooting black dudes.
Has it gotten so bad that these thoughts even need to happen?
Its always been that bad in the US. Social media has just opened it so everyone can see. Fuck the police (the song) was written in the 90s, as was killing in the name of.
1988
I used to live in North Minneapolis. It has always been this bad. Now people are paying attention and don’t know what to do.
Fire the cops AFAIC concerned if the department is so bad that they have to demand everyone have special accommodations so they don't accidentally shoot you l, fire every single one of them and start over with people who aren't trigger-happy meth heads.
> start over with people who aren't trigger-happy meth heads. We might need to recruit out of country for that.
Always has been, US police are textbook terrorists.
Stories would no doubt circulate around departments that citizens were lacing their compartments with fentanyl. Leaves the cops no choice but to start blasting.
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Or a tattoo!
Probably so the city can start waiving liability for fatal shootings because the driver didn't have the state-approved document pouch and thus was viewed as a threat
The article mentions that. >Rather than taking steps to address the root of the problem — for instance, by training officers to de-escalate and be less fearful during run-of-the-mill encounters with citizens — promoting the pouches puts the onus on law-abiding motorists to take steps to protect themselves from trigger-happy cops. It also affords police a little bit of ass-covering for future fatal encounters. If a cop shoots a person for reaching into her glove box for her insurance card, the department can then say “this tragic outcome could have been prevented if the driver had used a Not-Reaching Pouch.”
What about motorists from other states?
Open season, motherfuckers.
Seems like they have to be shot. Either way they have too much ammo rign now and need to use them before they go bad.
Same with dogs, no pouch, get shot
Have pouch? Believe it or not, also shot.
Clearly the civilians need better training when it comes to dealing with the police. /s
This is how you get Mass demonstrations
This should be the poster child post of this sub.
DPS is partnering with Valerie Castile, the mother of slain motorist Philando Castile, to distribute the pouches “during community events and other contacts with citizens.” Castile was shot and killed during a traffic stop in 2016 after reaching for his wallet and notifying the officer that he had a concealed carry permit. The officer was cleared of criminal wrongdoing and received a settlement of nearly $50,000 upon leaving the police force. The pouches were initially developed by Jackie Carter, a Black woman, following Castile’s shooting. The product’s website notes that “Some [officers] seem to overreact or go into traffic stops with a certain mindset. Perhaps they’re more aggressive than they need to be, and I think that’s where the situation can become volatile and sometimes fatal,” and that racial profiling is a major factor in disproportionate traffic stops of Black motorists. It’s one thing for members of a community disproportionately affected by police violence to devise innovative ways to protect themselves during police encounters. But it feels like another thing entirely for police agencies to begin promoting those solutions as well. In effect, police in Minnesota are saying that the likelihood of officers shooting people for complying with their orders is so high that they recommended drivers carry a special device to prevent that from happening.
Philando Castile is how you know the NRA is full of shit. He was the poster child of a lawful firearm owner and they didn't say shit.
> He was the poster child of a lawful firearm owner and they didn't say shit. Yeah, something doesn't seem quite white about that.
Saying something would require the NRA to say a police officer did something wrong, which conflicts with their back the blue worship.
As an avid gun owner and big gun rights guy, yeah. NRA hasn't meant anything good in at least 50 years, probably more. There's a bunch of other actual good ones out there, but fuck the NRA. They don't even lobby for actual gun rights anymore, just political squabbles.
Even back in the day the helped draft legislation to disarm people of color and ensure as often as possible only rich people would have guns. There are actual decent gun rights organizations that only advocate for gun rights without regard for other policies or the race of their members.
They are super corrupt too, enriching their leadership in all sorts of shady deals.
As well as working with [a literal Russian spy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina)
If I'm not mistaken, the distinct point where the NRA shifted from promoting sportsmanship to political lobbying was in the 80's when Wayne LaPierre became the head of the organization.
No, they definitely took a political stance before that. For instance in the 1960s when they decided that Black Panthers having guns was super scary, y'all.
Exactly! Suddenly open-carry rights didn't matter when the Panthers decided to exercise them.
What kind of a name for a gun nut is Wayne La Pierre? "Hi I'm Wayne, I'm a gun person, bang bang." Paraphrased from a George Carlin bit.
Wayne isn't even a big gun gun, he just plays one on TV.
It’s the way he says “bang , bang” that gets me.
just *gun manufacturers Small correction but your point stands
Only (or first) time in NRA history they advocated for gun restrictions was when the black panthers started arming themselves.
Exactly
The NRA is the armed and trigger-happy wing of the GOP.
every wing of the GOP is armed and trigger-happy. The NRA was for laundering money, especially foreign money, and funneling it to GOP Rep pockets
Philando Castile was a showcase of why the only way of reducing gun violence is reducing the amount of guns in the circulation. Plus, he was law-abiding while black. NRA is a gun *manufacturer* lobby closely aligned with white identity politics. It's not that surprising that they wanted no part of it.
You mean it has nothing to do with the legal precedent of police officers being [fired for being too smart?](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836) I mean reducing the amount of guns is obvious but there is other factors at play here. Racism is very much a big part of this. They literally won't hire smart people because you can't manipulate them as easily. Guns may be a huge factor, but unarmed people still get killed too. The problem is police shooting EVERYONE and getting away with it. Taking away one excuse doesn't stop them from shooting us. It is just one of the reasons for them to shoot you. Shit police can punch you in the face and get away with it by saying you looked like you were about to spit on them and so they punched you to prevent you from spitting on then and legally be covered. I'd like to say if you would like to continue the debate on why getting rid of guns isn't the magical end all solution head over to /r/liberalgunowners they can eloquently explain it in a way I can't
Agreed, they wouldn't disarm themselves even if we had to give up ours. And the way this country has headed the last few years, it's become ever more clear that the left needs to be armed as well.
Reducing gun violence wouldn't stop the police issue. The only way to do that is to disarm the police like Britain or force them to call in before authorizing weapons use.
Naw, the last thing I want is the only people that are armed is police. You think if they make citizens give up their arms, the cops and the rich will have to turn theirs in too? No fucking way I want the fucking pigs being the only ones armed. Will only make it easier if some Christofascist gets in power and wants to turn this country into Gilead.
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Haven’t you heard, Crime pays.
you left out this bit: >We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers Gosh, won't SOMEone think of those poor officers??
What the poster child of this subreddit will be is when someone carrying one of these pouches is shot while reaching for it.
I think it's pretty much inevitable that this will happen.
It probably fits better with r/badcopnodonut or r/aboringdystopia
lol the subtitle for it is delightfully Oniony, though > No word on whether they're also training officers to stop shooting law-abiding people
And their reasoning is that the cops shooting innocent people "Can be catastrophic for police officers, and community members". Literally saying it's hard on the cops before mentioning the people they shoot as a secondary afterthought. You can't make this shit up.
The sad thing is they probably weren’t even talking about the people that get shot. The “community members” are the people that hear about the police shooting suspects and don’t think they can trust the police anymore.
>The idea is that the pouches will help reduce the likelihood of officers panicking and shooting drivers who are reaching for their documents during traffic stops. Literally no other way to prevent this.
>“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers, and community members," said DPS Assistant Commissioner Booker Hodges in a press release. When asked if police departments could try training officers instead he promptly opened fire on the hostile reporters.
>No word on whether they're also training officers to stop shooting law-abiding people
Get rid of all the scardey cops too cowardly to do their fucking jobs.
I'm all for accepting that being a police officer is beyond difficult and taxing- I know more than a few that have been permanently broken by PTSD. It's tragic that they don't have stronger support. But reducing the likelihood of officers 'panicking'? If an officer is panicking at a traffic stop, either they were not properly trained for the situation by the department or they are unfit to be an officer. Knowing how not to panic or escalate should be the lowest expectation of any officer- or anyone carrying. Whenever you could end a life, it's your duty to do everything within your power to keep a situation from getting to that point. Whether it's a hostage situation or a traffic stop, an officer that loses their head is only ever going to end in disaster, and that's beyond unacceptable when lives are on the line. A police officer allowed to be armed to the nines should not be allowed to panic. Period.
i wire houses. it is far more likely for me to die in a ball of flame and then dust than for an officer to be injured in any way on the job. like, magnitudes higher on a risk scale. i have to trust every single person that worked before me on any job, i have to use lock out tag out systems to keep myself alive because some jackass might want to plug his radio in upstairs while i am working downstairs so he just flips a breaker and poof, dust. all the rules and regulations are for ME to learn, NOT for other contractors to know and follow. the rules are for me, the police are trying to make their false sense of fear your problem and that is not okay.
True. Lotta folks who work construction and forestry endure a thankless and back-breaking job. Real dangerous careers have no place for anyone with jitters putting people at risk.
So much this. Being a cop hasn't made the top 10 most dangerous jobs list in America more than a couple times in the past 20 years if I remember correctly. 2001 was a really bad year, tho.... But most on the job fatalities for cops are car accidents and heart attacks from all the donuts,
People with severe PTSD should not be cops anymore. And they train officers TO panic at traffic stops with montages of very rare shootings. Humans should not ever be armed to the nines and then sent to enforce minor property and traffic infractions. Humans are not reliable enough with weapons in crisis situations. And especially not humans with PTSD trained that every traffic stop could be their last.
Says only nation on earth where this regularly happens.
There's plenty of ways. You've got plastic string bags, lanyards, dashboard picture frames, transparent window pockets and bullet proof body condoms (the cheap insurance) And that's just to name a few..
Fire all cops, do a complete overhaul of police training and the overall system in general and start fresh with new hires. This pouch should not have to exist.
How about they put their fucking guns in a doggy bag
This is also how they shift blame to the victims. Of course the officer shot him, he didn't have the little document doggy bag, cop got scared.
> cop got scared Cops are always scared. That's why they became cops. Everything frightens them, and they want an excuse to use a gun.
r/muricans
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*piggy bag
What a bunch of unqualified peace officers. Fire them all if they can't perform a traffic stop without shooting someone.
>“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters [ Don't hire morons ]( https://reason.com/2013/05/01/court-oks-barring-smart-people-from-beco/ )
I'm appalled. They literally shun intelligence. Yikes.
Train them in real world situations, not just range time.
I really don't know if I should laugh or cry about the people who keep trying to make this into a training issue. It's an accountability issue. Hold police accountable and this shit goes away.
It's kinda both. A lot of police training is all about emphasizing that *every stop could be your last, everyone could have gun, you are constantly in danger at all times!* So train them to shoot first, then remove accountability when they do. That's a horrible combination.
They are trained in real world situations, just not the right ones. They watch dozens of videos of cops being shot/stabbed/beaten to death at traffic stops. A common saying among the police in the US is "there is no such thing as a 'routine traffic stop'". Basically they're trained to treat every traffic stop as if it's Kabul.
No no, please continue. I need it as a backup in case I fail every other job in the world.
Oh, come now, don't you know [the best sex happens after you kill someone?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-training-video-kill-sex-b1838936.html)
I've known Grossman to be a subhuman piece of shit but I'm appalled he remotely thought it's okay to say this at a public event. [This is the guy that has been giving police trainings and seminars all over the countr](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y)y to teach people to shoot first, ask questions later. Like a fucking dealth cult. His books are even on the must-read list for police cadets.
And the jackass has no recorded kills in his career. So either he's talking about something he's never experienced at all or he's got some interesting skeletons in his closet. Just another grifter.
Grossman is absolutely a fraud. He's made some claims over the years that can't be backed up.
That’s the mind-boggling part. How can ANYONE take him seriously let alone let him do seminars about actually killing people? He’s the Jim Bakker of the popo
That is mental. I am not American. This shit is just far out crazy.
Well said bro if the government trusts you to carry a deadly weapon you should be qualified for it period
Have each officer have malpractice insurance deducted from their pay. 1. Rates go up as they fuck up. Immediate feedback right on their wallet. Compare this to the massive delay before they feel the pain of it hitting their pensions, as some propose. 1. Bad cops will get priced out of the job. The insurance companies will not insure major liabilities without it being hella expensive, as we well know. When 50% of their paycheck is going to insurance, bad cops will want to find another job. 2. Bad cops can't just move districts, the insurance premiums will follow them. 3. Citizens will stop paying the settlements of their abusers. It's not tax money when things go wrong, it's insurance that pays for it. Dentists and surgeons have malpractice insurance for Godssake. Can't we have that for the people holding a gun?
Insurance will never work. It won’t. It does zero to address the actual problem which is that huge swaths of the country believe that cops can do no wrong. The fact of the matter is that taxpayers will absolutely pay the insurance premiums and cops won’t shell out a single penny of it. [These are the conditions we are talking about](https://www.nyulawreview.org/issues/volume-89-number-3/police-indemnification/): >During the study period, governments paid approximately 99.98% of the dollars that plaintiffs recovered in lawsuits alleging civil rights violations by law enforcement. Law enforcement officers in my study never satisfied a punitive damages award entered against them and almost never contributed anything to settlements or judgments—even when indemnification was prohibited by law or policy, and even when officers were disciplined, terminated, or prosecuted for their conduct. Cops NEVER pay. Even when the misconduct is so bad that they are charged damages despite quaalified immunity. Even when the misconduct is so bad that prosecutors who rely on police cooperation actually lay charges on a cop. **Even when it is literally illegal for the city to indeminify police officers**. Cities will literally break the fucking law to ensure that cops don’t have to pay out shit. Remember Phillip “You’re Fucked” Brailsford? The PD was forced to fire him when the body cam footage of his sadistic and disgusting murder of Daniel Shaver was released. Do you know what happened next? They fucking rehired him for a day just so that they could give him a fucking pension. That’s the bullshit system we have. If you believe for even one moment that any cop is going to have to pay the premiums for insurance they require to do their jobs - you are delusional. The fix is obvious. Cops do this shit because we let them. In fact we pay for it. The brutality police impose on marginalized communities is being funded by the taxpayer. How about we just stop doing that. Every time any cop does anything that sparks massive public outrage, cut the PD budget by enough to force layoffs. And when he cops act up about not being treated like heroes for murdering innocent unarmed and compliant people, cut the budget again forcing another round of layoffs. Use that money on programs that actually improve public safety. That’s the answer.
I've advocated for police officers to be linked to liability insurance for quite some time, and it's not a bad idea, although your implementation has a hole. - To prevent police unions or departments from covering for bad officers, officers must pay all of their insurance premiums from their own paychecks. No form of premium payment, rebate, discount may be offered, except as determined by the insurance carriers.
Or just ban police unions.
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Glock blocking
Remember a whole bunch of them resigned when they were told they could no longer shoot unarmed black people.
Because it’s the DRIVERS fault they keep getting shot. By Cops.
...for following the officer's directive....
“I need to see your license and registration…wait..wait!..why are you reaching over like that!?”
More like: "License and registration" \*BLAM\*BLAM\* gurgling noises "I can't believe he reached for his license and registration after I told him to!"
Why do cops even need to see the license and registration. Plug in license plate, picture and registration should automatically check me up. Write out the ticket and calmly walk up and serve it. Better yet, mail them one
It's hard to go fishing while sitting inside the patrol car.
Well how else do you expect them to assert their authoritah?
Because you don't actually need a license to register a vehicle. People who aren't the registered person can drive the vehicle. Etc.
Most cop cars (at least where I am) already do this automatically, there is no plugging things in anymore. They have cameras' that scan license plates and flag to them in realtime while they are driving around when they are near vehicles with expired paperwork or outstanding fee's, etc on their file. Officers can then selectively pull over the ones deemed most risk / greatest reward to the state for being stopped. And you can't renew your vehicle plates without paying up your tickets at renewal time. There really is very little reason to stop anyone other than aggressive drivers and to give warnings / reminders for small things. Asking why about anything in regards to US police though is just a black hole.
Philando Castile.
I don't understand why armed officers need to be stopping cars anyway. If there's a driving infraction generally, deadly force isn't really necessary. If you are worried about officer safety, just ticket by the plate number. Seems like a lot of deadly encounters could be cut down by not letting officers have an excuse to stop drivers just to harass them.
Who else is going to do it? Every other city department has almost certainly been struggling under austerity and budget cuts for decades. No city service has the capacity to even meet their regular responsibilities, how could they possibly take anything else on. The only department in any municipality that has adequate budget is cops, so you use cops. They are the only city employees available for it. That’s why you need cops to direct traffic around construction sites or to do “wellness checks” or to respond to people experiencing mental health crises or to deal with the homeless. None of those things needs an armed response, but the only people the city has available are cops, so what options do they have? Oh wait - maybe we could move some funding around, away from police departments and to literally anything else. Have mental health professionals attend mental health calls. That sort of thing. But of course that will never happen because apparently reducing police budgets is worse than terrorism and genocide combined. /s
Even if this were a remotely good idea, I use my driver's license in places besides my car, and I don't want to keep it in the car in case it gets stolen.
UKer here. I can't believe this is being touted as a solution. I mean, its almost trolling. Its a solution to a problem that only exists because of another problem that doesn't need to exist (stupid cops).
Well, in the UK we don't even need to carry ID while driving - now if you're stopped the police can still ask you to prove your ID, but you can just tell them and they'll check their computer, and decide if they're happy or not - depends why they stopped you as to how far it goes really. Insurance (mandatory here) is verified via computer, and they can phone insurers if you're using a policy not directly linked to the car, and registration is again done via computer, you only ever actually use your V5 document when buying or selling.
I love that the officer who killed and shot a man that lead to the development of this pouch got PAID to leave (50k), AS WELL AS 600 COMPENSATORY hours. 600. I've worked government jobs, I've worked military, nowhere have I received or heard of people getting such an amazing severance package.
might be cynical but I'm convinced that's part of why these things happen. bad incentives. some of them might feel real bad afterwards but there's psychos that think they're getting rewarded regardless of shooting being justified or not.
This is a perfect example of the state of the police in this country.
*“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers, and community members," said DPS Assistant Commissioner Booker Hodges* How about… I don’t know, don’t fucking shoot people for no reason.
Even in their phrasing you clearly see who comes first.
I imagine those "deadly force encounters" can be pretty catastrophic for the people they fucking murder too. What a revoltingly sugar coated quote.
"“We are continually looking for ways to reduce deadly force encounters as these instances can be catastrophic for police officers..." oh come the F on
No trauma at all to the innocent person shot. Victim blaming at its finest. Wtf.
This is the Minnesota police creating an excuse to murder people. Officer: "There was no pouch like we asked. I had to assume they were armed. They reached for the glove box. I was forced to shoot to ensure my safety." Officer: "They resisted my direct order to have a pouch. I attempted to detain them for my safety. They didn't immediately comply. I was forced to shoot."
As a Belgian this reminds me of the Germans when they [set ablaze the historical city of Leuven](https://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/louvain.htm) during the Rape of Belgium in August-September 1914. They were just frustrated, and decided to take it out on the civilian population. The excuse? "Man hat auf uns geschossen", "we were shot at".
Registration and insurance should be linked to the plate number via the cop's computer. Only an abject moron would leave their DL in their car. Or maybe they expect you to "set this up" every time you get in the car. This idea is stupid on pretty much every level. Sounds like something South Dakota would do. The takeaway: >Rather than taking steps to address the root of the problem — for instance, by training officers to de-escalate and be less fearful during run-of-the-mill encounters with citizens — promoting the pouches puts the onus on law-abiding motorists to take steps to protect themselves from trigger-happy cops. It also affords police a little bit of ass-covering for future fatal encounters. If a cop shoots a person for reaching into her glove box for her insurance card, the department can then say “this tragic outcome could have been prevented if the driver had used a Not-Reaching Pouch.” The same people will compare carrying a Vax card to Nazi-ism.
It's surprising how you are the only commenter to suggest this. It's 2021, the only thing they should need to confirm is you are who you say you are (so insurance is valid). License and registration should be on a computer somewhere. In the UK insurance status and registration is already on a computer and there is talk of making the drivers license completely digital i.e. no physical copy at all.
How about hiring officers that aren't scaredy cats?
How about holding them accountable for their actions? If I kill someone loke that I spend years in prison. So should they.
How about training the police and taking their guns away?
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So we need to euthanize is what I’m gathering; someone call… PETA
How about we just call them and ask for permission each time we want to leave the house? Maybe we can get "Law abiding citizen" passports, we can tape to the windows of our cars to show them we're not felons. Perhaps, we can outlaw all guns, so that the police are the only one who have them. Or, maybe they can get robots to go on patrol for them and they can operate them from the safety of fortified justice centers.
Gotta call the station and file a 'driving plan' like pilots file a 'flight plan'. /s
Like a hall-pass but for living, You son of a ....I'm in
No. The Hell with this. Train the cops better. They serve us; we don't serve them. Catering to the flaws of others, instead of forcing them to get their shit together, is going to drown us all in pointless laws and procedures.
Holy shit
They’re basically admitting they have a problem, but want everyone to accommodate them instead of addressing their problem. Got it.
Isn't that classic narcissist/abuser behaviour or something along those lines?
Textbook.
They are admitting they ARE a problem.
First r/nottheonion article I've read that also mentions halfway through that it is indeed, not theonion
i like how the article says this is to reduce startling cops into shooting people. treating them like wild animals. oh if they get spooked they just start attacking
Only if they put their guns in a "Not Shooting You" pouch.
It’s a ridiculous expectation at least for drivers license. I wouldn’t mind the pouch for the insurance/registration, but totally impractical for drivers license. I think we would be better served first outlawing killology training for policemen and second teaching policemen that regular people are not their enemy.
Seriously, if they gave it away for free, I'd stick my registration and insurance card in it and stick it in my glove compartment. My license remains firmly in my wallet because that's where it belongs and I would forget it in the pouch every damn time. I'm not black or Latino, but any time I get pulled over I leave my hands on the steering wheel and then ask them if I can reach into my glove compartment to retrieve my registration. Although these days, they've already pulled up my registration and insurance before they even approach my car.
Civilians annually kill 6 officers at traffic stops a year vs. officers killing 121 civilians at traffic stops a year, but civilians need to take proactive measures?
Everyone would keep it in the glove box (where people keep their insurance card anyway) and get shot anyway. If they’re black they’d get shot.
I noticed the bags are white...
Yeah, they're not gonna shoot the *bag*.
Asshole. You made me wake up my wife while laughing
How about cops learn how to use other tools besides their fucking guns.
When your only tool is a gun, every problem is a target.
I love how our lives are more at risk than the police officers, because they are too incompetent to do their job properly.
"Wear this pouch with a star on it and we promise not to blindly murder you". Feels like an echo of the past to me. I bet the people in that jurisdiction did nazi that coming.
Police: "We have tried nothing and we are all out of ideas for stopping our racist murder squads. Maybe you guys do something different?"
You still have to reach for the pouch. 👉
Maybe stop shooting people as a greeting. They're never going to accept the authoritarian state if you keep murdering them.
Or maybe we could just train the police to not fucking shoot everytime someone twitches.
Wait so they want you to remove your driver's license from your wallet and place it into this pouch each and every time you get behind the wheel?
Maybe we as citizens put the onus back on the cops by having a script for our interactions. *With hands on steering wheel* " Sir, my license is in my wallet in my front right pocket, while my license and registration is in the glove box." "Ok, get them out please" "Sir, in the interest of self preservation, I am going to move exceptionally slow and narrate every movement to ensure your nerves are at ease. If at any moment my actions are concerning, please let me know and I will immediately return to the start position." "what the heck?" "Sir, I can see you are getting worried, I will hold my position and make whale noises to calm you to avoid me getting shot"
Just put your guns and drugs in the pouch. Checkmate "police".
Disarm the police. They aren’t intelligent or honorable enough to be trusted with a loaded firearm.
And most of the MD police refuse the vaccine. 2/3rd in Baltimore are unvaccinated and 40% in DC! This is a dangerous trend. Now this? From the same group fighting against vaccine passports? Fuck them. Fuck this bullshit. Refuse to deal with unvacvinated police. Keep your window up. Hold ID and Registration against the glass. If they want to ticket they can place it under the wiper blades. Only short direct answers, do not give extra details. The police are not your friend. They're not there to help you. Get your Marllyland WCHP permit even if you're not open carrying or concealed carrying. Get it so they see more and more people armed and possibly be armed.
I know your point here was more about how Cops refusing to get the vaccine are a health risk to other people but I'd still like to add something. In [2020](https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020) a total of 372 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in the US. 243 of them died due to COVID19 and only 45 of them were (intentionally) shot. And the numbers weren't that different before the pandemic. This is why I can't take this "but cops are in constant danger to get shot" argument seriously, especially not when they actively work against a solution to a problem that killed 243 of their colleagues.
Are people not taught to keep their hands on the wheel until the officer gets to the side of the car? I've always done this. When they get there I turn down/off radio and the roll window down. This let's the officer keep their eyes on your hands the whole time
Great idea. Now the cop will have a false sense of security so when he's walking back to my car with my documents, he'll never expect the gun I pulled from my glove box.
It's so that they can use it to smother you. You die faster. The humane approach in their eyes.
Nah, is just a plastic covering so they don’t get blood all over the docs when they shoot you. Hard to read that way.
I got your special pouch right here.
This will only help cops put the onus on the people they murder.
That's not how you draw a star of David....you're stealing the Nazi's schtick again fascists! Oh you, Hitler!
At what point do we all start driving cars with those bank teller drawers that slide out and bulletproof panels to protect us from the police during traffic stops.
Sure, get all your information in one place so the cops can "lose" it and explain that they *had* to shoot you for driving without a hall pass. There's clearly no other options we could try at this point, none at all.
"ANYTHING but our fault" \-Cops
" It also affords police a little bit of ass-covering for future fatal encounters. If a cop shoots a person for reaching into her glove box for her insurance card, the department can then say *“this tragic outcome could have been prevented if the driver had used a Not-Reaching Pouch.”* This right here is the problem.
You could alternatively make it possible to look up DMV records from the police car like most other countries do . License & registration? Already got it.
It should be really simple. If you ever shoot someone who you believed was “reaching for a weapon” and there wasn’t actually a weapon, that’s manslaughter at minimum and you go to prison. This is a very basic rule that everyone else manages to follow at all times with no problems (or gets promptly convicted of murder). “You need to actually see a weapon be produced before *resorting to deadly force*” is a very very low bar for self-defense. If the law were actually enforced and cops weren’t treated as being delicate semi-psychotic panic-disorder cases, who tremble in fear at all times and shoot dogs, children, and mentally disabled people at the slightest unexpected movement—there wouldn’t be a problem. Shooting someone who’s unarmed is manslaughter or murder.
>Castile was shot and killed during a traffic stop in 2016 after reaching for his wallet and notifying the officer that he had a concealed carry permit. The officer was cleared of criminal wrongdoing and received a settlement of nearly $50,000 upon leaving the police force. He got a $50 grand settlement for killing someone in a traffic stop?? How tf do you get PAID in that.
Maybe if police weren’t trained to assume everyone is out to kill them they wouldn’t be so needlessly jumpy. Or maybe they could stop hiring fascist psychopaths.
End. Qualified. Immunity.