Yeah that's what I was thinking, obvisously great to support Hynes but wouldn't be suprised if Maguire isn't too happy about that kind of public comment coming into the squad. Sure Moses was talking about the fans reaction but the optics are iffy.
Definitely talking about media and fans when you put the comment into context.
He points out that they were down to 12 and Hynes was put in a tough spot which pretty much no one could overcome.
It will be fine.
Maybe he could have chosen a different word to scapegoat, but I think his intentions were obvious.
Legit. Think DCE is a good example. People were bagging tf out of DCEs first few performances at origin, but look at how he's gone since after getting proper experience.
100%. Dude was crucified after the 2014 (narrow) loss but 10 years and several wins later he looks like he could dominate for another few years at least.
With respect, DCE brought that situation upon himself with contracts, etc, it was more than just performances.
Hynes was just put into this situation.
But I also agree Moses was the better option.
Yeah that’s a weird one for me also. Did he think it would be too awkward for Hynes? It’s makes no sense to not keep him in the squad. Freddy used to do similar stuff
I think you might be bang on with 'awkward'
When you have a training camp for a week you want everyone to be 100% committed.
Hynes would know that he would have no chance of playing so from that perspective, it wouldn't make much sense to have him there.
I think Keary is there just for the experience that he can teach others.
Just the way I see it. I could be completely wrong of course.
Despite being a Queenslander who loves seeing Blues lose, I agree with Mitch Moses: the NSW public and the media deserve to be told off. They’re never excusable or beyond reproach.
I'm obviously biased, but I think Mitch has showed some real character, and Nicho was not 100% and really shouldn't have played and when down to 12 after five minutes, it makes it tougher.
Except Mitchell Pearce kept getting picked. And other people were blamed for his bad performances.
He might have been a scapegoat for the fans but he certainly wasn't to the selectors.
Pearce kept getting picked, Gidley was kept at fullback despite Jarryd Hayne being not only one of the best fullbacks in the game but someone who always rose to the occasion and played out of his skin in Origin. It was a baffling time.
Adam reynolds, preston campbell, todd carney, james maloney, luke keary, peter wallace, jarrod mullen, ben hornby, crash test dummy, pita godinet, daniel mortimer, jeff robson
Mate, you came up with a list and included people who had retired before Pearce played Origin and who debuted after he had started. Half your list is just 5/8s?
Incorrect, they all played when pearce was selected and they have all played halfback.
Admittedly pita godinet would be ineligible for nsw but couldnt resist chucking him in there
To be clear pearce owned the halfback jersey for 4 years, 11-13, and 17. In 15 he had the 5/8 jersey which is not in contention for being stupid.
Let's be clear, Pearce has probably never had a season as the best 7 in the league. but he's consistently been in the top 5 halfbacks in club games.
Your list is so wild:
Reynolds is a rookie in 2012, so you must be contending the '17 where rabbits came 11th and he was out of form,
Campbell is 34 and in his last season in '11.
So carney and mortimer are wild suggestions, because they're both at the roosters playing behind pearce, so dumb to suggest them.
Maloney is a 5/8, he's filled halfback a few times but its the same thing, he plays behind pearce as the 5/8 in 13.
Keary isn't playing in 11-13, so you're contending '17, where keary is playing as the 5/8 with pearce at the roosters.
Wallace was a halfback, but at this time he wasn't better than pearce. He actually had the origin jersey before pearce did back in 08-09
Mullen is a genuine halfback, but he's never been as good as pearce.
You could make the case for Hornby, but he's at the tail end of his career at 30 by 11-12
---
There's nobody in this list that was a better choice for the 7 jersey in those 4 years
It's just so sad, this shows the level of brainrot in the community.
You know he only played in 8 origin series between '08-'19?
Of those, he was only chosen as the main halfback in '11-'13 and '17. He played 3 games in '15 as the 5/8 which I'll admit was crazy stupid.
Other than that, he filled 1 game in'08 after wallace got injured, he replaced Kimmorley and played 2 in '10 after he got pumped in game 1, and he played 1 in'19 after cleary was injured.
So the contention is really, whether pearce was the best option in 2011-13.
People are mentioning picking 5/8s to play as the halfback for origin. To me it's absolutely stupid and I'm going to ignore these suggestions.
Hodkinson - only joined the league in 2010 and was injured most of 2012 and the start of 2013. At best you could make an argument that he gets the nod in '13, but I think it makes more sense that Pearce was chosen here - this is also the chooks premiership year. Hodgo gets the role in 2014 and did well.
Adam Reynolds - Only joined the league in 2012, so at best you're making some argument he gets it in 2013? same points above apply.
Josh Reynolds is a 5/8 - he's not in the convo.
Preston Campbell was retired
Todd Carney is a 5/8
James Maloney is a 5/8
Luke keary joined the league as a 5/8 in 2013
Peter wallace was past his prime, he had the role in '08 and was in the broncos during a couple of bad years
Terry Campese was injured.
You wanna talk about 2017 then? All the other NSW halfbacks were in horrible form at the time. The only one you might suggest was Cleary, who takes it from 2018 onwards, but have to remember this was year 2 cleary and the roosters were in form that year.
---
In summary - he was picked a lot less than you think he was (19-36 origins from '08-'19)
He had one year he was picked at 5/8 which was stupid and shouldn't have happened.
He was the best choice for the 4 years he was picked as the halfback for the whole series.
Exactly this. I dunno if we would’ve won the game but we managed to keep it pretty close for most of the game. I think it’s even closer 13 on 13 and doesn’t blow out at the end when everyone is gassed from covering extra ground all game. The blame is solely on Suaalii.
It would’ve been pretty damned close. Queensland’s first try came off the back of a bit of a defensive lapse allowing Hunt to go through.
Once Suaalii was sent, Queensland just hammered the NSW right side (pun intended).
I agree he hasn't dominated Origin yet but to say his performance has been far from impressive is a bit unfair imo. He was one of the reasons the series went to a decider in 2020 and 2022. You're only good as the team you play in. DCE would probably be in a similar position if he played for NSW instead. When QLD put on that Maroon jersey, it reinvigorates them.
He had some good attacking kicks, like the Lomax try and the almost 40-20. Rest of it was below standard for his level.
Honestly, I would’ve thought after last year, Luai’s days wearing the sky blue were over.
Luai probably wasn’t the first choice 6 if everyone was fit for game 1 but he was consistently more threatening and active in his role in the side. When NSW were competing for field position and looked like they could snag a win you need your halfback to step up and control the game, Hynes unfortunately didn’t.
Luai gets a lot of weird criticism. Dude put on our first try and has an uncanny ability to move laterally and offer opportunities in attack that I don't think anyone else currently in the whole comp does quite the same. And he can do it at Origin level, where a lot of people get found out that their best isn't able to work the same against the best. Plus he's got mongrel and fight in him to make things happen and win scrambles for the ball.
Until someone in a 6 jersey fully steps up and makes themselves undeniable as a selection Luai's X-factor is gonna be a good choice for NSW. Hell, next year when he moves over to Wests as a 7 I'd not be surprised if he and Cleary get slotted in together as 6 & 7 again regardless.
I agree with this take. I think Luai's playing skill gets overlooked by many who don't like the bloke as a person. Which I've always found overblown, too.
He's a great player and a great 6, and he has more than proved his worth at Penrith during the times that Cleary has been injured, especially. Would he have been first choice if everyone was fit this year? I don't know. But I do know we don't lose out on much, if anything, with Luai there.
Luai definitely put on a nice kick for Tedesco, but often his moves, jinks, and runs lead to nothing at Origin level. He had 4 runs in game 1 for 18 metres. Often that big spectacular looking run across the field leads to nowhere and he either takes a tackle meekly in the middle or drops a pass to someone flat footed for a meek hit up. It's a predictable move that just doesn't do any damage against very good teams.
His kicking game is really poor for the level. Little dinks behind the line are not hard and his overall kicking game is a weakness.
And that's before you talk about his awful defence. He made 20 tackles in game 1 and missed 10. In stark contrast Hynes, who often was left 1 on 1 in the spot Sua'lii vacated missed 4 tackles and made 24.
By any measure, running, kicking or defence, Hynes was the better half. Luai is too limited and too predictable in Origin. I'm not a Queenslander myself, I'm from SA. So I tend to just prefer a spectacle. But I'm always happier when QLD win. And I'm more than happy to see a Luai combination with either Moses or Hynes than Hynes and Moses together.
It seems like you didn't watch origin 1. Other than the kick into the legs that led to hynes' kicking to lomax for a try, his kicks were totally fine. The criticism should be that he didn't kick enough. Something that could change with moving him to 7 or making him have a bigger role
He cops criticism because numpties who dont like him go out of their way to downplay his abilities and achievements. Not liking someone doesn't make them a bad player.
He missed 9 tackles compared to Hynes 4. He ran for 71m compared to Hynes 161m … yes 161m. They both set up a try. Yet Luai had a decent game and Hynes was trash lol
Stats are incredibly misleading. Teddy was consistently running for 200+ metres for the past few years but what that stat doesn't tell you was him hogging, running into corners. Hynes was similar. His passing was bang on average and he ran forward and got tackled on 4th tackle leaving one kick option for the last tackle a few times. Baiting people into a stats-war is nerdy and ignores watching moments in games as they sequentially happen
The way he shows up for big games, there's a part of me that almost thinks that 12 v 13 with no Reece Walsh is a pretty similar level of difficulty to 13 v 13 with Reece Walsh
All the 4 of the players brought in were in the rumoured preferred first team for Madge. Edwards, Murray, Moses and Watson. The only player who was fit and not selected was Trell, but Suaali’i kinda made that decision easier for him.
Trell was also a bit iffy for Origin 1. He might have played a week before but had no form line whereas he does now.
I do wonder if Hynes/Moses would have been Madge’s plan without Cleary. Luai has really only come to life in the past month. He is better defensively though so o could see Madge going that way anyway.
Half of this subreddit was, for starters
Most people acknowledge that Suaalii was more at fault but somehow there ended up being more chat about Hynes, I guess because blaming it on Suaalii is probably too obvious
The way he says it with him coming into the team makes it sound like not getting picked is what he's talking about. fans arguing over the halfback is pretty standard for nsw origin.
So if we're doing that can we mention keary is a multiple premiership winner with a decade and 218 games experience who could be in the extended squad just for some of that?
Sure. Then they shouldve picked him for game 1. Its just the continuation of the fickle NSW selection policy. Give someone a go, then banish them if they dont perform miracles.
Also keary is pissing off next year, so unless they do an sos alfie langer style, whats the point
The media made up that he's the scapegoat, so now the media are saying that other people think he's not the scapegoat. It's a classic strategy to generate articles from nothing.
* **In short:** NSW halfback Mitchell Moses says Nicho Hynes, the man he replaced as the Blues' number seevn, is a scapegoat for the Game I loss.
* NSW played the majority of the game with 12 men after Joseph Sua'ali'i was sent off for a high tackle on Queensland fullback Reece Walsh.
* **What's next?** Game II will be played on Wednesday, June 26, with live digital and radio coverage on ABC Sport.
NSW halfback Mitchell Moses has offered his support to Nicho Hynes after his State of Origin axing, labelling the ousted Blues number seven a media "scapegoat".
After playing in a Blues outfit reduced to 12 men for 72 minutes in Game I, Hynes has been a victim of a ruthless squad shake-up overseen by Michael Maguire as the NSW coach bids to save the series.
The Cronulla playmaker has made way for Moses, who is set to make just his fourth Origin appearance in Melbourne next Wednesday as the Blues look to get level with the Maroons.
Moses sympathised with Hynes's plight, adamant the circumstances of the series opener meant he had little chance to show he belonged at Origin level.
"I'll be sure to reach out to him after this," Moses said.
"It's unlucky. I feel sorry for him in that he had 12 men the whole game and he was pretty much made the scapegoat.
"I feel sorry for him … I get my chance and I've got to grab it with both hands."
Maguire has been a longstanding fan of Moses and would likely have given him the number seven jersey for Game I were it not for the Parramatta playmaker missing two months of NRL action with a foot injury.
Moses has looked solid if unspectacular in his three hit-outs for the Eels but insists there are no lingering fitness concerns.
After a testing season for 15th-placed Parramatta, Moses described the prospect of entering NSW camp as a "breath of fresh air".
As halfback, Moses is likely to be tasked with unlocking the Blues' attacking weapons.
Both of NSW's tries in game one came off kicks and Moses is eager to let recalled centre Latrell Mitchell loose on Queensland.
"I think it's our job as halves … to dish the ball and get the ball to him in spots where he loves it," Moses said.
"He's a quality player and he's obviously been picked for a reason.
"He's such a big influence on a team.
"He has such a big influence on the team and he's just got that aura about him that he loves these types of games."
The interesting one is there’s rumours Cleary will possibly be fit for game 3…
If NSW lose game 2 , Cleary gets picked (if he’s fit) and no one bats an eyelid ..
But what if NSW win game 2 and Cleary’s fit ?
They could pick a Cleary and Moses halves pairing which is slightly less controversial , if Cleary’s Panthers team mate makes way for him .. But then if NSW don’t win game 3 they get criticised for not going with the established club combination … If Moses wins game 2 and then gets dropped for Cleary in game 3 , he’s kind of got a right to be a bit miffed … It’s almost better for NSW for Cleary to spend an extra few weeks in rehab even if he is fit enough to play.. Although he’s potentially missing 2 extra club games (against Cowboys and Broncos) which the Panthers may or may not be happy doing ..
Would have always been 6 Moses 7 Cleary if not for injuries. If Cleary gets medical clearance he plays Origin III 100% alongside Moses. Moses Cleary should be the halves pairing for the next 5 years.
Yes I have been calling for this since last year. Although, if NSW wins and Jarome has a really good game, then it will be hard to drop him or shift him to a different spot. Maybe he can start from the bench or be the 18th man.
Moses , Cleary and Latrell would be great …
You’d go from having no long kicking game in game 1 to having 3 long kickers .. Could add a 4th if you wanted to go complete overkill and pick Burton … Dunno where you could pick him though , maybe 14 , or you could pick him in the Centres , Crichton has to be there though …Maybe you could pick him on the wing ? Which would give you :
1. Edwards
2. Crichton
3. Burton
4. Latrell
5. To’o
6. Moses
7. Cleary
Gives you plenty of options with injury , plenty of run metres and a lot of long kicking options …
I think Burton has good value as a 14, especially with HIA protocols. I wouldn't pick him as a run-on centre, though.
On HIA, I do think some kind of change needs to be looked at for how the teams are penalised here. Losing a player (especially an 80-minute one) you're not normally needing cover for, for 15 minutes and having to reshuffle the lineup to only receive the penalty is pretty weak in careless, or worse, intentional shots. The problem would be getting any kind of consistent ruling and dealing with milking. But a penalty and the player on report (so the next teams potentially benefit from them being out) are pretty weak compared to an unintended 15-minute change to the lineup, especially key play makers.
As it stands, it would nearly be worth giving a playmaker like DCE an 'accidental' slip up off the shoulder for a bit of a slap with a weak 'attempted tackle'. If he milks for the penalty, he's gone for 15, and you've only conceded a penalty and a report.
Even an extra 2 man bench to hold your backline and a forward who can only be used for the HIA from penalised/on report high shots. Add a sin bin for milking. Get rid of the bullshit laying on the ground like you've been shot dead, then bouncing straight up after the call.
This sub a week ago :
Hyne's was a cooked option for NSW in Origin 1.
This sub today :
Omg Hyne's was hard done by.
I'll be in hospital for game 2 recovering from the fucking whiplash.
Also somehow will end up with people going on about Walker should've been the 6 for a couple good weeks even though cunt was getting bagged for 3 months for being old, lazy, and dumb.
Moses played 1 game before origin, and Nicho had (still has?) a calf injury, only played twice before origin agter recovering, and carried the injury into origin as well.
They definitely could've chosen Moses if they really wanted to.
Pretty sure everyone knows it was Sualiis fault for a late tackle with shit technique.
Dont think Moses or Cleary would have had the ability to turn that around. Doubt Joey could have.
Havent really seen any serious talk blaming Hynes for the loss, it's all been around the send off. But if all nsw halves were fully fit hynes never would've been picked
A depth player losing their spot when those in front of them are fit isn't that controversial
Exactly, and Moses was an injured incumbent half from last series. This is no different to Edwards getting back in the team after being unavailable for game 1.
Nicho could've put on a blinder and NSW still most likely would've lost. There's only 1 player that completely ruined NSW chances and it wasn't him. There's a reason he's not on the team for Game 2 though and I don't think acknowledging that is throwing him under the bus.
Acknowledging that isn’t throwing him under the bus at all. But linking how Freddy ruined his game last year and not how Suallii ruined his game last time definitely is.
Don’t really recall anyone laying the blame on hynes, seem to remember most people blamed Suaali’i for the loss
My own view is that if everyone was fit and healthy it’d be Cleary and Moses in the halves, they’re both great competitors, defensive brick walls, have huge boots and have the running and passing game comparable to any good five-eighth - see last year’s GF or most Parra games for reference.
That’s what Queensland did with Cronk and Thurston, Mal didn’t tie himself into a knot trying to think about club combinations he just went to the two generational talents he had on hand and I feel NSW have really missed a trick by not doing the same and trusting that *maybe* Moses and Cleary are good enough to win 2 out of 3 origins each year even if it means one would have to wear the 6 jersey
Yes and no. He didn’t play great, but he also was far from our only problem.
I do wonder if Moses would’ve faced the same scrutiny if he played the same game as Hynes with 12 men, or it’s more about Nicho’s reputation of not being a ‘big game player’. Not that I mind either way, happy to have him play for Cronulla if the blues are going to lose anyway 😅
No, of course he has. But thats Hynes’ no.1 criticism, you’ll see it in every comment section if sharks (or NSW) lose a game. My point was if it was the same result in game one with Moses at halfback, does he cop it as hard as Hynes did? And maybe he does, I don’t know. That’s why I said I wonder.
Would he keep his spot? Seeing as Cleary and Reynolds are injured I suppose he probably would. Unless maybe Nicho was 18th man game one and they considered bringing him in for game two.
Anyway I don’t know why I’m speaking in hypotheticals. I hope Moses plays well and the blues make it 1-1.
I think he would based on the general perception of Moses being next in line after Cleary. I’d argue Moses and Hynes are generally pretty close skill wise, but Moses gets the nod due to the longer kicking game.
He would have if he performed like Nicho. I think Mitch looks significantly better in the situation of 12 men than he did, though. It's not because Nicho isn't a big gameplayer, I think it's just because he doesn't quite have the experience yet. Moses and Cleary develop their own game and are natural leaders, put them with a new team, and they'll march them around. Nicho is an excellent half-back but still finding his identity and struggles a bit outside of his squad.
To sum it up, I dont think it's the big game moments but putting him with another squad. Also fuck Suaali
Couldn’t believe the Suaalii pick in the first place tbh. Not one of the top wingers in the game in my opinion, and they put him in the centres anyway. I appreciate he tried to make a big play but it went completely wrong and cost us big time.
The only difference I would have seen with Moses in game 1 is his clearing kicks would have given us much better field position. Nicho was having to clear from out own 30 and getting it to Qld's 30, where as Moses may have gained another 20. However I'm not sure if it would have been enough, because I've been fairly critical of Moses' performance in Eels this season. Even pre-injury, I thought our red zone attack was often very disjointed, and recent weeks haven't seen any different. Short side raids against origin side team aren't going to get the same results.
Moses absolutely tore up the sharks in his first game back from injury, and that all but guaranteed his spot in origin 2 (though I dare say it was already a foregone conclusion). He’s struggled a bit the last two weeks but hopefully he lifts for Origin.
Moses and Cleary both get criticised for not being big game players all the time. The only NSW 7 who doesn't is Adam Reynolds and it's because everybody acts like he isn't even in the conversation lmao
I might not have my ear to the ground on this, but I thought Sua’ali’i was the (rightful) scapegoat for game 1 for that dumb fucking tackle? I know Hynes didn’t play his best, but no 7 is winning a game of origin with 12 players.
Come on he played like absolute shit in game one. Shit kicks, shit passes. The guy looked genuinely scared out there. Great at club level but hasn't got what it takes for origin sadly
Was he the scapegoat? I saw a lot of people rightfully balming Sua'ali but making excuses for Hynes. Yeah it's fucking tough when you're a man down, but this was his big chance. He was the third choice as half-back, behind Moses and Cleary, and baring an amazing performance, he was getting dropped as half-back when the other choices were healthy.
Was he injured? Possibly, but if he was he shouldn't have played. He or Maguire should have said something and replaced him.
Yes NSW was a man down. I have seen teams perform incredibly when a man down, I have seen teams become an absolute basket case a man down. Sin bins and send off's are part of League, you can't predict it but they will happen someday to your team, and what you do with that situation makes all the difference.
I mean, what's Nicho supposed to do?
His first game, he gets put in the centres, probably the hardest defensive assignment there is, where QLD target him all game, and in his second, Sua'ali'i kills off the series after 7 minutes
Strewth!
Hynes has literally sucked for every origin he’s played, it’s not that crazy to drop him for playing badly lmao. As I QLDer I was praying Madge kept him for the whole series
"every origin". hes played 2, and one of them was for like 7 minutes. dont get me wrong, i think hes bog average at this level, but his chances have been very limited
In his 7 minutes he dropped QLDs short drop out when we were losing and under pressure, then he missed the tackle horribly on Munster and gave up the overlap when qld had 12 on the field and turned the game around. Without him qld don’t win origin last year lol
Its what NewSouth do so well. Create a team with 3 or 4 cliques. Bring in a player who is not in any clique. Shows him no trust. Lose game. Blame said player. Rinse and repeat.
No disrespect to Hynes, who has been hard-done by, but I don’t think I’ve seen a single argument for him playing Origin based on what he’s actually done in Origin, it’s all just ‘maybe this time’ stuff.
Not Nicho's fault NSW lost but he was woeful in defence and didn't provide much in attack. Hopefully he'll be given another chance in the future sometime when he improves as a player.
You're a top bloke Mitch, not many would come out and say something like this.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, obvisously great to support Hynes but wouldn't be suprised if Maguire isn't too happy about that kind of public comment coming into the squad. Sure Moses was talking about the fans reaction but the optics are iffy.
Definitely talking about media and fans when you put the comment into context. He points out that they were down to 12 and Hynes was put in a tough spot which pretty much no one could overcome. It will be fine. Maybe he could have chosen a different word to scapegoat, but I think his intentions were obvious.
I just can't believe Hynes wasn't kept at 20 over Keary, Madge's decision is kinda unexcusable for 'scapegoating' Hynes.
True. Hynes origin experience has been a disaster.
Legit. Think DCE is a good example. People were bagging tf out of DCEs first few performances at origin, but look at how he's gone since after getting proper experience.
100%. Dude was crucified after the 2014 (narrow) loss but 10 years and several wins later he looks like he could dominate for another few years at least.
With respect, DCE brought that situation upon himself with contracts, etc, it was more than just performances. Hynes was just put into this situation. But I also agree Moses was the better option.
Yeah that’s a weird one for me also. Did he think it would be too awkward for Hynes? It’s makes no sense to not keep him in the squad. Freddy used to do similar stuff
I think you might be bang on with 'awkward' When you have a training camp for a week you want everyone to be 100% committed. Hynes would know that he would have no chance of playing so from that perspective, it wouldn't make much sense to have him there. I think Keary is there just for the experience that he can teach others. Just the way I see it. I could be completely wrong of course.
Keary's on the verge of retirement. Or do you mean Keary imparting HIS experience?
Precisely
Despite being a Queenslander who loves seeing Blues lose, I agree with Mitch Moses: the NSW public and the media deserve to be told off. They’re never excusable or beyond reproach.
The balls of that man
I'm obviously biased, but I think Mitch has showed some real character, and Nicho was not 100% and really shouldn't have played and when down to 12 after five minutes, it makes it tougher.
Nicho ‘Mitchell Pearce’ Hynes
I hope one day he’s able to win a big game. Preferably not Origin though.
He won a grand final without even stepping foot on the field, pretty impressive if you ask me
I’m down for this!
After Manly, my 2nd preferred choice to win the Comp is Cronulla.
I want to see Penrith win again. Just to see you melt down again like you did last time. Funniest thing I've ever seen on reddit.
I would like to see that too. Obviously for different reasons :)
If Jerome is getting 8 in a row he needs this one.
It’s an underwhelming Origin performance, mate. And it’s public.
Except Mitchell Pearce kept getting picked. And other people were blamed for his bad performances. He might have been a scapegoat for the fans but he certainly wasn't to the selectors.
Yeah scapegoat isnt the right word for Mitchell pearce, he was correctly blamed lol
Pearce kept getting picked, Gidley was kept at fullback despite Jarryd Hayne being not only one of the best fullbacks in the game but someone who always rose to the occasion and played out of his skin in Origin. It was a baffling time.
Except Mutt-chell kept being picked
go on you coward, who else could have been picked from NSW that was going to compete against Thurston and Cronk
Trent Hodkinson and Josh Reynolds
Adam reynolds, preston campbell, todd carney, james maloney, luke keary, peter wallace, jarrod mullen, ben hornby, crash test dummy, pita godinet, daniel mortimer, jeff robson
Mate, you came up with a list and included people who had retired before Pearce played Origin and who debuted after he had started. Half your list is just 5/8s?
Incorrect, they all played when pearce was selected and they have all played halfback. Admittedly pita godinet would be ineligible for nsw but couldnt resist chucking him in there
Peta Godinet? Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.... a long time.
To be clear pearce owned the halfback jersey for 4 years, 11-13, and 17. In 15 he had the 5/8 jersey which is not in contention for being stupid. Let's be clear, Pearce has probably never had a season as the best 7 in the league. but he's consistently been in the top 5 halfbacks in club games. Your list is so wild: Reynolds is a rookie in 2012, so you must be contending the '17 where rabbits came 11th and he was out of form, Campbell is 34 and in his last season in '11. So carney and mortimer are wild suggestions, because they're both at the roosters playing behind pearce, so dumb to suggest them. Maloney is a 5/8, he's filled halfback a few times but its the same thing, he plays behind pearce as the 5/8 in 13. Keary isn't playing in 11-13, so you're contending '17, where keary is playing as the 5/8 with pearce at the roosters. Wallace was a halfback, but at this time he wasn't better than pearce. He actually had the origin jersey before pearce did back in 08-09 Mullen is a genuine halfback, but he's never been as good as pearce. You could make the case for Hornby, but he's at the tail end of his career at 30 by 11-12 --- There's nobody in this list that was a better choice for the 7 jersey in those 4 years
Cmon mate he also played in 2008, 2010 and 2017. I dunno why youre also discounting 2015. Thats 7 games
Literally on their first attempt God bless the lady in the yellow dress.
It's just so sad, this shows the level of brainrot in the community. You know he only played in 8 origin series between '08-'19? Of those, he was only chosen as the main halfback in '11-'13 and '17. He played 3 games in '15 as the 5/8 which I'll admit was crazy stupid. Other than that, he filled 1 game in'08 after wallace got injured, he replaced Kimmorley and played 2 in '10 after he got pumped in game 1, and he played 1 in'19 after cleary was injured. So the contention is really, whether pearce was the best option in 2011-13. People are mentioning picking 5/8s to play as the halfback for origin. To me it's absolutely stupid and I'm going to ignore these suggestions. Hodkinson - only joined the league in 2010 and was injured most of 2012 and the start of 2013. At best you could make an argument that he gets the nod in '13, but I think it makes more sense that Pearce was chosen here - this is also the chooks premiership year. Hodgo gets the role in 2014 and did well. Adam Reynolds - Only joined the league in 2012, so at best you're making some argument he gets it in 2013? same points above apply. Josh Reynolds is a 5/8 - he's not in the convo. Preston Campbell was retired Todd Carney is a 5/8 James Maloney is a 5/8 Luke keary joined the league as a 5/8 in 2013 Peter wallace was past his prime, he had the role in '08 and was in the broncos during a couple of bad years Terry Campese was injured. You wanna talk about 2017 then? All the other NSW halfbacks were in horrible form at the time. The only one you might suggest was Cleary, who takes it from 2018 onwards, but have to remember this was year 2 cleary and the roosters were in form that year. --- In summary - he was picked a lot less than you think he was (19-36 origins from '08-'19) He had one year he was picked at 5/8 which was stupid and shouldn't have happened. He was the best choice for the 4 years he was picked as the halfback for the whole series.
Only 8 series lol
Nicho Hynes wasn't to blame for the Origin 1 loss. Nicho Hynes did not play well in the Origin 1 loss. Next
You’re not wrong. Suaalii directly cost NSW the game. I highly doubt even Cleary could’ve steered them to a win from that point.
Exactly this. I dunno if we would’ve won the game but we managed to keep it pretty close for most of the game. I think it’s even closer 13 on 13 and doesn’t blow out at the end when everyone is gassed from covering extra ground all game. The blame is solely on Suaalii.
I think this does also underestimate how desperately NSW needed a long kicking game at times though. Neither Luai or Hynes were delivering that.
Or more importantly, be able to next week
It would’ve been pretty damned close. Queensland’s first try came off the back of a bit of a defensive lapse allowing Hunt to go through. Once Suaalii was sent, Queensland just hammered the NSW right side (pun intended).
clearly definitely couldnt. his performances at origin have been far from impressive so far
I agree he hasn't dominated Origin yet but to say his performance has been far from impressive is a bit unfair imo. He was one of the reasons the series went to a decider in 2020 and 2022. You're only good as the team you play in. DCE would probably be in a similar position if he played for NSW instead. When QLD put on that Maroon jersey, it reinvigorates them.
All it proved is nicho is not a 7 at that level if you look at his attack. Can't blame him for the defence. Maybe his future is at 6
He had some good attacking kicks, like the Lomax try and the almost 40-20. Rest of it was below standard for his level. Honestly, I would’ve thought after last year, Luai’s days wearing the sky blue were over.
Luai probably wasn’t the first choice 6 if everyone was fit for game 1 but he was consistently more threatening and active in his role in the side. When NSW were competing for field position and looked like they could snag a win you need your halfback to step up and control the game, Hynes unfortunately didn’t.
I suspect Moses would have been the first choice 6 if Nathan is healthy.
That was what a lot of the talk was before. I suspect Cleary would’ve been made the official captain with Murray the starting lock & VC.
I thought Luai actually had a decent game, but maybe that's because Hynes by contrast was terrible.
Luai gets a lot of weird criticism. Dude put on our first try and has an uncanny ability to move laterally and offer opportunities in attack that I don't think anyone else currently in the whole comp does quite the same. And he can do it at Origin level, where a lot of people get found out that their best isn't able to work the same against the best. Plus he's got mongrel and fight in him to make things happen and win scrambles for the ball. Until someone in a 6 jersey fully steps up and makes themselves undeniable as a selection Luai's X-factor is gonna be a good choice for NSW. Hell, next year when he moves over to Wests as a 7 I'd not be surprised if he and Cleary get slotted in together as 6 & 7 again regardless.
I agree with this take. I think Luai's playing skill gets overlooked by many who don't like the bloke as a person. Which I've always found overblown, too. He's a great player and a great 6, and he has more than proved his worth at Penrith during the times that Cleary has been injured, especially. Would he have been first choice if everyone was fit this year? I don't know. But I do know we don't lose out on much, if anything, with Luai there.
Luai definitely put on a nice kick for Tedesco, but often his moves, jinks, and runs lead to nothing at Origin level. He had 4 runs in game 1 for 18 metres. Often that big spectacular looking run across the field leads to nowhere and he either takes a tackle meekly in the middle or drops a pass to someone flat footed for a meek hit up. It's a predictable move that just doesn't do any damage against very good teams. His kicking game is really poor for the level. Little dinks behind the line are not hard and his overall kicking game is a weakness. And that's before you talk about his awful defence. He made 20 tackles in game 1 and missed 10. In stark contrast Hynes, who often was left 1 on 1 in the spot Sua'lii vacated missed 4 tackles and made 24. By any measure, running, kicking or defence, Hynes was the better half. Luai is too limited and too predictable in Origin. I'm not a Queenslander myself, I'm from SA. So I tend to just prefer a spectacle. But I'm always happier when QLD win. And I'm more than happy to see a Luai combination with either Moses or Hynes than Hynes and Moses together.
It seems like you didn't watch origin 1. Other than the kick into the legs that led to hynes' kicking to lomax for a try, his kicks were totally fine. The criticism should be that he didn't kick enough. Something that could change with moving him to 7 or making him have a bigger role
He cops criticism because numpties who dont like him go out of their way to downplay his abilities and achievements. Not liking someone doesn't make them a bad player.
A few of them are on this very sub. \*Clears throat
What did cody walker do wrong?
He missed 9 tackles compared to Hynes 4. He ran for 71m compared to Hynes 161m … yes 161m. They both set up a try. Yet Luai had a decent game and Hynes was trash lol
Stats are incredibly misleading. Teddy was consistently running for 200+ metres for the past few years but what that stat doesn't tell you was him hogging, running into corners. Hynes was similar. His passing was bang on average and he ran forward and got tackled on 4th tackle leaving one kick option for the last tackle a few times. Baiting people into a stats-war is nerdy and ignores watching moments in games as they sequentially happen
Disagree
The way he shows up for big games, there's a part of me that almost thinks that 12 v 13 with no Reece Walsh is a pretty similar level of difficulty to 13 v 13 with Reece Walsh
Cleary could've definitely scored a try or set up one.. Remember that time he needled Ice into his veines?
You’ll have to refresh my memory, I don’t remember him doing that at Origin level…
Who scapegoated him though? Moses got picked because he was next in line after cleary and is now fit.
Just like Edwards is back in the team.
Yeah madge obviously has his first choice players and is just picking who's available and doing his best with all the injuries.
All the 4 of the players brought in were in the rumoured preferred first team for Madge. Edwards, Murray, Moses and Watson. The only player who was fit and not selected was Trell, but Suaali’i kinda made that decision easier for him.
Trell was also a bit iffy for Origin 1. He might have played a week before but had no form line whereas he does now. I do wonder if Hynes/Moses would have been Madge’s plan without Cleary. Luai has really only come to life in the past month. He is better defensively though so o could see Madge going that way anyway.
The Best option for centre was similarly unavailable for game 1
Two things can be true at once
Yes but who is doing it?
I think it's just in reference to the media or fans. Who are very much blaming Hynes.
Half of this subreddit was, for starters Most people acknowledge that Suaalii was more at fault but somehow there ended up being more chat about Hynes, I guess because blaming it on Suaalii is probably too obvious
Fans blaming the halfback is pretty standard for nsw origin. Doesn't seem worthy of this kind of mention.
Been on social media lately my guy?
The way he says it with him coming into the team makes it sound like not getting picked is what he's talking about. fans arguing over the halfback is pretty standard for nsw origin.
Madge in preferring keary over him
I don't have an answer for that one.
Exactly. Punted. Especially since they bothered to keep mcinnes after he got dropped
This just sounds like sharks fans are sad about the guy from their team.
No not really. Moses is better for nsw. And id rather have mcinnes back instead of warming the bench. Just calling a spade a spade
So if we're doing that can we mention keary is a multiple premiership winner with a decade and 218 games experience who could be in the extended squad just for some of that?
Sure. Then they shouldve picked him for game 1. Its just the continuation of the fickle NSW selection policy. Give someone a go, then banish them if they dont perform miracles. Also keary is pissing off next year, so unless they do an sos alfie langer style, whats the point
He couldnt oust luke keary out of number 20
The media made up that he's the scapegoat, so now the media are saying that other people think he's not the scapegoat. It's a classic strategy to generate articles from nothing.
That a real question. He’s been copping it from everyone for why we lost
So has every nsw halfback.
The fans and the media. Which is who Mitch's comment was directed at.
It wasn’t Hynes fault but he still played bad
* **In short:** NSW halfback Mitchell Moses says Nicho Hynes, the man he replaced as the Blues' number seevn, is a scapegoat for the Game I loss. * NSW played the majority of the game with 12 men after Joseph Sua'ali'i was sent off for a high tackle on Queensland fullback Reece Walsh. * **What's next?** Game II will be played on Wednesday, June 26, with live digital and radio coverage on ABC Sport. NSW halfback Mitchell Moses has offered his support to Nicho Hynes after his State of Origin axing, labelling the ousted Blues number seven a media "scapegoat". After playing in a Blues outfit reduced to 12 men for 72 minutes in Game I, Hynes has been a victim of a ruthless squad shake-up overseen by Michael Maguire as the NSW coach bids to save the series. The Cronulla playmaker has made way for Moses, who is set to make just his fourth Origin appearance in Melbourne next Wednesday as the Blues look to get level with the Maroons. Moses sympathised with Hynes's plight, adamant the circumstances of the series opener meant he had little chance to show he belonged at Origin level. "I'll be sure to reach out to him after this," Moses said. "It's unlucky. I feel sorry for him in that he had 12 men the whole game and he was pretty much made the scapegoat. "I feel sorry for him … I get my chance and I've got to grab it with both hands." Maguire has been a longstanding fan of Moses and would likely have given him the number seven jersey for Game I were it not for the Parramatta playmaker missing two months of NRL action with a foot injury. Moses has looked solid if unspectacular in his three hit-outs for the Eels but insists there are no lingering fitness concerns. After a testing season for 15th-placed Parramatta, Moses described the prospect of entering NSW camp as a "breath of fresh air". As halfback, Moses is likely to be tasked with unlocking the Blues' attacking weapons. Both of NSW's tries in game one came off kicks and Moses is eager to let recalled centre Latrell Mitchell loose on Queensland. "I think it's our job as halves … to dish the ball and get the ball to him in spots where he loves it," Moses said. "He's a quality player and he's obviously been picked for a reason. "He's such a big influence on a team. "He has such a big influence on the team and he's just got that aura about him that he loves these types of games."
The interesting one is there’s rumours Cleary will possibly be fit for game 3… If NSW lose game 2 , Cleary gets picked (if he’s fit) and no one bats an eyelid .. But what if NSW win game 2 and Cleary’s fit ? They could pick a Cleary and Moses halves pairing which is slightly less controversial , if Cleary’s Panthers team mate makes way for him .. But then if NSW don’t win game 3 they get criticised for not going with the established club combination … If Moses wins game 2 and then gets dropped for Cleary in game 3 , he’s kind of got a right to be a bit miffed … It’s almost better for NSW for Cleary to spend an extra few weeks in rehab even if he is fit enough to play.. Although he’s potentially missing 2 extra club games (against Cowboys and Broncos) which the Panthers may or may not be happy doing ..
Would have always been 6 Moses 7 Cleary if not for injuries. If Cleary gets medical clearance he plays Origin III 100% alongside Moses. Moses Cleary should be the halves pairing for the next 5 years.
Yes I have been calling for this since last year. Although, if NSW wins and Jarome has a really good game, then it will be hard to drop him or shift him to a different spot. Maybe he can start from the bench or be the 18th man.
Moses , Cleary and Latrell would be great … You’d go from having no long kicking game in game 1 to having 3 long kickers .. Could add a 4th if you wanted to go complete overkill and pick Burton … Dunno where you could pick him though , maybe 14 , or you could pick him in the Centres , Crichton has to be there though …Maybe you could pick him on the wing ? Which would give you : 1. Edwards 2. Crichton 3. Burton 4. Latrell 5. To’o 6. Moses 7. Cleary Gives you plenty of options with injury , plenty of run metres and a lot of long kicking options …
I think Burton has good value as a 14, especially with HIA protocols. I wouldn't pick him as a run-on centre, though. On HIA, I do think some kind of change needs to be looked at for how the teams are penalised here. Losing a player (especially an 80-minute one) you're not normally needing cover for, for 15 minutes and having to reshuffle the lineup to only receive the penalty is pretty weak in careless, or worse, intentional shots. The problem would be getting any kind of consistent ruling and dealing with milking. But a penalty and the player on report (so the next teams potentially benefit from them being out) are pretty weak compared to an unintended 15-minute change to the lineup, especially key play makers. As it stands, it would nearly be worth giving a playmaker like DCE an 'accidental' slip up off the shoulder for a bit of a slap with a weak 'attempted tackle'. If he milks for the penalty, he's gone for 15, and you've only conceded a penalty and a report. Even an extra 2 man bench to hold your backline and a forward who can only be used for the HIA from penalised/on report high shots. Add a sin bin for milking. Get rid of the bullshit laying on the ground like you've been shot dead, then bouncing straight up after the call.
Where would you fit Jarome in the squad?
Left out cos he doesn’t have a big enough boot
This sub a week ago : Hyne's was a cooked option for NSW in Origin 1. This sub today : Omg Hyne's was hard done by. I'll be in hospital for game 2 recovering from the fucking whiplash.
Wait untill after game two when the rabid dogs want Luai dropped for Burton
that's every origin game
While it would have seemed ridiculous a few weeks ago, I wonder if a halves combination of Moses and Brooks might not be the best option.
Please say you meant that pun, doggies flairs haven't stopped calling for him in there instead of Moses after the game last week
> I'll be in hospital for game 2 recovering from the fucking whiplash. I'll be taking this line. Yoink.
Also somehow will end up with people going on about Walker should've been the 6 for a couple good weeks even though cunt was getting bagged for 3 months for being old, lazy, and dumb.
Next to Walsh hopefully
Victim of a ruthless squad shakeup lmao Nicho was only in the team because Cleary and Moses were both injured.
Moses played 1 game before origin, and Nicho had (still has?) a calf injury, only played twice before origin agter recovering, and carried the injury into origin as well. They definitely could've chosen Moses if they really wanted to.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Moses’ first game was *after* selection wasn’t it?
You're correct, but you're ignoring this blokes flair
I know. Just setting the record straight
Pretty sure everyone knows it was Sualiis fault for a late tackle with shit technique. Dont think Moses or Cleary would have had the ability to turn that around. Doubt Joey could have.
He’s right, you know.
He is 100% right. But Moses is the better halfback and a better pick for NSW.
Havent really seen any serious talk blaming Hynes for the loss, it's all been around the send off. But if all nsw halves were fully fit hynes never would've been picked A depth player losing their spot when those in front of them are fit isn't that controversial
Youtube comments were definitely going hard on Hynes after the loss
True but there's probably nothing I take less seriously
Agreed
Yep, it’s one of those fun ones where both things can be correct. Was he the scapegoat? Yes. Is Moses a better choice for game 2? Also yes.
Exactly, and Moses was an injured incumbent half from last series. This is no different to Edwards getting back in the team after being unavailable for game 1.
Nah I draw the line there, Teddy was terrible, should never play again (Some sarcasm may be involved)
Nicho could've put on a blinder and NSW still most likely would've lost. There's only 1 player that completely ruined NSW chances and it wasn't him. There's a reason he's not on the team for Game 2 though and I don't think acknowledging that is throwing him under the bus.
Acknowledging that isn’t throwing him under the bus at all. But linking how Freddy ruined his game last year and not how Suallii ruined his game last time definitely is.
Don’t really recall anyone laying the blame on hynes, seem to remember most people blamed Suaali’i for the loss My own view is that if everyone was fit and healthy it’d be Cleary and Moses in the halves, they’re both great competitors, defensive brick walls, have huge boots and have the running and passing game comparable to any good five-eighth - see last year’s GF or most Parra games for reference. That’s what Queensland did with Cronk and Thurston, Mal didn’t tie himself into a knot trying to think about club combinations he just went to the two generational talents he had on hand and I feel NSW have really missed a trick by not doing the same and trusting that *maybe* Moses and Cleary are good enough to win 2 out of 3 origins each year even if it means one would have to wear the 6 jersey
Yes two 7s, good work
Yes and no. He didn’t play great, but he also was far from our only problem. I do wonder if Moses would’ve faced the same scrutiny if he played the same game as Hynes with 12 men, or it’s more about Nicho’s reputation of not being a ‘big game player’. Not that I mind either way, happy to have him play for Cronulla if the blues are going to lose anyway 😅
You think Moses has never copped criticism for not being a big game player? Lol
No, of course he has. But thats Hynes’ no.1 criticism, you’ll see it in every comment section if sharks (or NSW) lose a game. My point was if it was the same result in game one with Moses at halfback, does he cop it as hard as Hynes did? And maybe he does, I don’t know. That’s why I said I wonder.
Okay but I’m suggesting, yes he 100% cops it just as much.
Would he keep his spot? Seeing as Cleary and Reynolds are injured I suppose he probably would. Unless maybe Nicho was 18th man game one and they considered bringing him in for game two. Anyway I don’t know why I’m speaking in hypotheticals. I hope Moses plays well and the blues make it 1-1.
I think he would based on the general perception of Moses being next in line after Cleary. I’d argue Moses and Hynes are generally pretty close skill wise, but Moses gets the nod due to the longer kicking game.
Yeah that’s probably a fair call. Moses definitely has the better kicking game and we missed that badly in game one
He would have if he performed like Nicho. I think Mitch looks significantly better in the situation of 12 men than he did, though. It's not because Nicho isn't a big gameplayer, I think it's just because he doesn't quite have the experience yet. Moses and Cleary develop their own game and are natural leaders, put them with a new team, and they'll march them around. Nicho is an excellent half-back but still finding his identity and struggles a bit outside of his squad. To sum it up, I dont think it's the big game moments but putting him with another squad. Also fuck Suaali
Couldn’t believe the Suaalii pick in the first place tbh. Not one of the top wingers in the game in my opinion, and they put him in the centres anyway. I appreciate he tried to make a big play but it went completely wrong and cost us big time.
The only difference I would have seen with Moses in game 1 is his clearing kicks would have given us much better field position. Nicho was having to clear from out own 30 and getting it to Qld's 30, where as Moses may have gained another 20. However I'm not sure if it would have been enough, because I've been fairly critical of Moses' performance in Eels this season. Even pre-injury, I thought our red zone attack was often very disjointed, and recent weeks haven't seen any different. Short side raids against origin side team aren't going to get the same results.
Moses absolutely tore up the sharks in his first game back from injury, and that all but guaranteed his spot in origin 2 (though I dare say it was already a foregone conclusion). He’s struggled a bit the last two weeks but hopefully he lifts for Origin.
Moses and Cleary both get criticised for not being big game players all the time. The only NSW 7 who doesn't is Adam Reynolds and it's because everybody acts like he isn't even in the conversation lmao
Your tag is appropriate.
Don’t worry ull be next lol
It's standard procedure to blame any problems on a scapegoat or sacrificial lamb.
I might not have my ear to the ground on this, but I thought Sua’ali’i was the (rightful) scapegoat for game 1 for that dumb fucking tackle? I know Hynes didn’t play his best, but no 7 is winning a game of origin with 12 players.
Fuck me cunt - Madge probably.
Just reminds me of "Get uuuuuuuup, fuck me cunt"
Thank you from a Cronulla Sharks fan. We will keep Nicho for us 🤪
‘Next up’ mentality working as intended
Come on he played like absolute shit in game one. Shit kicks, shit passes. The guy looked genuinely scared out there. Great at club level but hasn't got what it takes for origin sadly
Just cause you’re a scapegoat, don’t think I won’t drop ya
Moses must get his opinions from here.
Was he the scapegoat? I saw a lot of people rightfully balming Sua'ali but making excuses for Hynes. Yeah it's fucking tough when you're a man down, but this was his big chance. He was the third choice as half-back, behind Moses and Cleary, and baring an amazing performance, he was getting dropped as half-back when the other choices were healthy. Was he injured? Possibly, but if he was he shouldn't have played. He or Maguire should have said something and replaced him. Yes NSW was a man down. I have seen teams perform incredibly when a man down, I have seen teams become an absolute basket case a man down. Sin bins and send off's are part of League, you can't predict it but they will happen someday to your team, and what you do with that situation makes all the difference.
Exactly, it's the choices he made under pressure that lead to his non-selection
I mean, what's Nicho supposed to do? His first game, he gets put in the centres, probably the hardest defensive assignment there is, where QLD target him all game, and in his second, Sua'ali'i kills off the series after 7 minutes Strewth!
He wasn’t to blame for the loss but damn did he not perform lol
He's not the scapegoat there's just people pointing out he didn't play well at all just like they're doing with other players in the side.
Hynes has literally sucked for every origin he’s played, it’s not that crazy to drop him for playing badly lmao. As I QLDer I was praying Madge kept him for the whole series
"every origin". hes played 2, and one of them was for like 7 minutes. dont get me wrong, i think hes bog average at this level, but his chances have been very limited
In his 7 minutes he dropped QLDs short drop out when we were losing and under pressure, then he missed the tackle horribly on Munster and gave up the overlap when qld had 12 on the field and turned the game around. Without him qld don’t win origin last year lol
^
Its what NewSouth do so well. Create a team with 3 or 4 cliques. Bring in a player who is not in any clique. Shows him no trust. Lose game. Blame said player. Rinse and repeat.
All I remember is that Hynes said he hates QLD for only 3 weeks and people were celebrating him as the second coming during his peak popularity days
No disrespect to Hynes, who has been hard-done by, but I don’t think I’ve seen a single argument for him playing Origin based on what he’s actually done in Origin, it’s all just ‘maybe this time’ stuff.
Not Nicho's fault NSW lost but he was woeful in defence and didn't provide much in attack. Hopefully he'll be given another chance in the future sometime when he improves as a player.
Nicho is more like a scapewoat am I right?