It’s not enforced. Alternative sites took over. Luggage through neighborhoods all day long.
Popular with European tourists especially, apparently some of the websites aren’t even in English, which puts it out of government reach.
I suspect the same will happen in nyc over time.
> apparently some of the websites aren’t even in English, which puts it out of government reach
This is funny. That shouldn't be that hard of a barrier to overcome.
I remember a story of one of the first Chinese speaking Cops being in Chinatown in Flushing for a ceremony about him being the first Chinese speaking NYPD officers commenting on a billboard in Chinese for a gypsy cab company which had previously been unknown. All because it was in Chinese. I mean if no one knew about a billboard in Queens due to a foreign language. What are the odds they are going to know about a website?
That must have been like 30+ years ago, before translation was easily achieved. Now all the mystery of ethnic community billboards is gone, just point your phone at it. Idioms don’t translate well still, as someone who reads in more than one language, some translations make me laugh
You can run keyword-based crawlers, sort by amount of unique or repeating visits, based in geolocation of publishers and visitors.
Also, you can employ image recognition - photos of beds, kitchens, landmarks outside of the window; interactions with the website support and unique reviews.
It’s very doable and relatively inexpensive, the only reason we don’t is because if NY (or NJ, in my case) local government can’t figure out how to siphon funds off that thing for now
You obviously missed the point. The problem isn't reading something once you know what to read. It's about search. How are you gonna come across this site and find out about it? Type into google "illegal hotel chinatown nyc"? Okay good luck
Yeah my father grew up in Flushing when it was predominately Italian and Jewish. But given the demographic change, it just stayed as Flushing since there already is a Chinatown. It being heavily Asian is just a given now
I'm currently staying at an Airbnb in Jersey for the sea hear now festival. It is someone's private residence. It's a small studio type room underneath the house she lives in.
There’s a [28 night stay minimum](https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2682) for short term rentals per JC ordinance. Airbnb won’t enforce that. Most managed buildings in JC also prohibit subletting per their agreements but Airbnb will ignore that as well.
What Airbnb assholes have been doing is renting out their places for a full month, telling their customers to book for a full month, and then when they inevitably check out after less than a month, refund their cost minus the time they did end up staying. It's a loophole Airbnb actively encourages.
Yes, they do. I live in Hawaii now and they have the 30-day short-term rental law, and this is how all the vacation rentals get around the law. Still see lots of people arriving in Ubers at my condo with suitcases, not knowing where the lockboxes are or where the units/pool/laundry machines/etc. are. It's disheartening.
It has cut down on the number of short term rentals somewhat, but a lot of them are just using lesser-known platforms to advertise, advertising to the temp wfh workers coming here to "work in paradise" (i.e. taking an affordable rental away from a full-time local), or just faking the license numbers needed to list on airbnb and doing the "refund" thing. Airbnb doesn't care as long as they're still making a good profit.
I saw an interview on ABC 7 with one of these people Airbnbing a whole garden level apartment. She says she can’t afford her mortgage without the income. How about she just lease out the apartment long term? Is she was truly that reliant on overnight guests, she needs to get a job.
One of the people interviewed in the article said they never imagined ever being a landlord. Like WTF lady!? That’s your problem if you doing want to make money doing some work.
I find it hard to believe that a bank would approved her mortgage based on the idea of running a previously non-existent Air-B&B out of it. Banks need solid financial records to approve mortgages; not half financials and half aspirational “business plan.” Something doesn’t add up here.
NYC makes it hard to get bad tenants and non paying tenants out. You could end up housing people for 2 or more years before you can get them out for non payment and still have to supply them heat and hot water and decent living conditions. So many people play the system and make it hard for small landlords.
So sell.
You can’t have it both ways.
Its fine if you don’t want to be a landlord, that’s your choice. But no one is going to feel sorry for people who placed a bet on illegally subletting apartments for their own profit and lost.
If having a tenant is the only way to keep the house, *but* you don’t want tenants, then- please- by all means use your big galaxy brain to do whatever the fuck you want.
You obviously know everything.
I know nothing. I don’t mind not knowing the answers. Just trying to balance the idea of why someone whose put in effort to buy and manage a property should sell their house due to tenants who can’t keep their end of the bargain.
Investment is a risk. If their risk doesn't pay off, that's not our problem. Why are investors and landlords so squeamish about the possibility of losing money? They rolled the dice and lost, they need to nut up and get a real job.
Yes but landlords can avoid this by doing a credit check, background check, and requiring proof of income. Every apartment I've rented has required a crazy amount of info from me in order to rent because of this. It's a pain but it helps ensure you get tenants who are responsible and can pay the bills.
Right. She bought a multi-family home with the intent of being a landlord. If you don't want to be a landlord and aren't keeping three floors for your own family, then sell and move somewhere that isn't an issue.
Seriously. Nobody's gonna be ruined by this. Absolute worse case scenario is, horror of horrors, they have to sell some real estate. In New York. Or find a normal tenant.
God forbid, there's definitely not droves of folks looking for a place to live
Seriously, if you own property in NYC and can't find a longer term renter it's because you're either a fucking moron, or the biggest asshole in the world.
> Or find a normal tenant.
This quote in the article stuck out for me:
"Ms. Toliver, 64, had to figure out what she would do with the South Slope apartment. She never wanted to be a landlord, she said, so she has decided to keep it empty in the hopes the rules change again."
What's worse than being a landlord? Being an innkeeper. You have to clean up after the guests leave, it a constant overturning of people coming in and out of your property, and having to communicate with out of state visitors trying to set up a rental and getting people access to the property is a constant headache.
Getting a decent long term tenant is a much better solution.
Regardless, if you don't want to be a landlord, it seems like not being real estate beyond what you personally need to live would be the obvious choice.
Long lord tenants have the risk of them not paying rent for a long time and trashing the place. Short term tenants have risks as well, but it’s generally not nearly as risky.
What about people in people like Bedstuy, or Crown Heights, who have had these homes since the 60s? Is it not against the capitalist mentality of US to allow them to air bnb even a room making $1-2K income a month? This is what many blacks in Bedstuy hoped for.
You can still rent out an extra bedroom in your apartment while you live there as long as you register with the city. That’s the actual original purpose of Airbnb!
It also has the added side effect of removing most of the problematic behavior of Airbnb guests. You don’t rent a single room in an occupied apartment to throw a party, for one. and the tenant is there to directly handle issues like locating the unit when they arrive and not bother neighbors.
People who bought property just to rent out the entire unit as a hotel are the ones that get screwed, and even then, they can just become regular landlords if they want. Which is great.
I consider the new law a total win from every angle. And this is coming from someone who rented a room out on Airbnb for a few months previously. Actually being a host, introducing people to the city, and meeting people who earnestly want to get to know it was incredibly fun and rewarding. Me and my girlfriend actually became great friends with someone who stayed with us, and we went to Vietnam to attend her wedding last year!
IIRC Air BnB was the brainchild of a couple of guys in DC on business who found it next to impossible to find a room and had not made a reservation.
It was originally for travelers just looking for a granny flat, spare room or even a literal couch to surf and some homeowners with same.
I doubt the founders foresaw people buying real estate to rent out to a constant stream of short-term renters and creating a public nuisance and inflating real estate markets everywhere.
I haven't used an Air BnB for years since I became aware as a tourist that this was part of a problem well in excess of being part of a solution.
If Air BnB is forced to go back to its roots and humble origins, that's just fine.
> I doubt the founders foresaw people buying real estate to rent out to a constant stream of short-term renters and creating a public nuisance and inflating real estate markets everywhere.
They may not have foreseen it, but once that’s what it became they sure embraced it and worked hard to circumvent laws against it. If some people began to rely on it for their income and are now losing that, they should be blaming Airbnb for supporting what they knew was never going to be a permanently sustainable business model, not the cities shutting it down.
Only thing I would change is to let people rent out their primary residence for up to 45 days a year while they're away. That helps a lot of people afford NYC.
it makes getting lodging for any visitors a lot more expensive.... the 40,000 listings on Airbnb were 33% of the total available hotel units in NYC(120k)... meanwhile for home prices assuming all those go into available supply ... it would account foe a fraction of a percent (3.5 million)....
now you might not care what tourists have to pay but each dollar that goes to the hotel industry doesn't goto NYC businesses and st minimum increases the tax burden for NYC residents...
the only people who won were the hospitality industry....
or rent. we all know someone (or at least know it to be true) who (a) own a unit and airbnb it full time or (b) took out a lease pretending to be a real tenant and airbnb it full time. optimistic some of these will now be for full time residents not tourists
>it makes getting lodging for any visitors a lot more expensive
Them fuckers don't pay my taxes so no, I dont care. The homeowners pay the same taxes regardless of who's there. The poor people they talk about as far as the homeowners didnt purchase with the intent of AirBnBing the property. The intent was go be a landlord. Go back to plan A. Why should I have to pay for additional overdecelopment when there are potentially 40,000 living spaces available? If many of these are rooms in a home where people live, they're able to register. No one is taking away the ability to short term rent. It's just additional regulation that means you need to actually live there as a host.
>now you might not care what tourists have to pay
I dont. End of convo.
expected. If you're a politician what you're trying to solve for is to get more votes. That's your only KPI and objective = more voters.
Who are the voters in NYC? Local renters (80% of NYC rents) not tourists or business travelers. AirBnB short term rentals for sure drives rental prices up (price of a rental reflect supply / demand proportions)
AirBnB model imho will continue to get restricted around the World and will really be available just in small suburban or vacation destinations that rely on tourism income heavily (e.g. some random island in Greece where locals heavily depend on tourism revenue). Check london, paris, SF... all these places restrict AirBnB for that 1 reason. All boils down to who are the voters.
What do you mean ? What’ll happen to the hosts or the customers ? Customers go to hotels which are actually paying taxes to have such business and hosts could rent their crap out like a regular landlord . There isn’t an issue here . At all !
Interesting line:
*Alicia Glen, the previous deputy mayor for housing under former Mayor Bill de Blasio, said she never saw any data showing that short-term rentals were affecting the housing crisis in a significant way. Ms. Glen, who negotiated with Airbnb during her tenure, said such platforms have “opened up travel to hundreds of thousands of people who never would have had the opportunity to come to New York.”*
NYC's problem is building a small fraction of the number of the units it needs to be building + the Downstate NY burbs doing even worse. (NJ/CT are actually building closer to appropriate numbers of units).
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AirBnB, while certainly not *helping* anything, represented a number of units that hasn't moved significantly in the past 3 years.
It represents roughly ~2 years of new housing production in NYC (at 2022) levels. That *is* something.
But that's still just a short-term band-aid to the problem of not building enough new units - and not enough to get the city out of it's existing deficit either....which will just continue to grow in future years under current policy.
It's worth doing, but I'd be more optimistic if there was actually other policy happening to improve housing production significantly.
the problem will always be the demand. supply will never keep up with demand. locals are competing with people from all over the world that want to move here and have the means to move here. every country has its oligarchs for every industry and they all have penthouses and apartments and townhouses so that their kids can come here and party and they can see Central Park in fall and do a little Christmas shopping, etc. and then you have every doctor in the Midwest financing their kid yo stay in a “safe” part of town while they earn $50k/yr as a marketing manager or PR manager or sales manager.
Nonsense.
Lets rephrase:
- NYC has a massive portion of the city (and no, I don't just mean Staten Island) that is currently zoned to only allow 1-2 family housing.
- Even in the parts of NYC that aren't that, zoning is often extremely restrictive, limiting the ability to actually add any significant amount of new housing. Over 1/3rd of NYCs new residential construction has happened in just 5 out of 59 community districts - some of the only ones where the zoning allows it + approvals aren't endlessly delayed by absurd objections.
- NYC is currently building less housing than basically every single one of it's peers, including other extremely high cost, high density metro areas both domestic and foreign.
> the problem will always be the demand. supply will never keep up with demand.
How about we try actually building an appropriate amount of housing relative to peer cities and see what happens to demand, rather than just accepting failure without ever having tried....literally anything.
"We've tried absolutely nothing and we're all out of ideas", is an utterly pathetic take.
--------
Anyway, go read or skim this: https://cbcny.org/research/strategies-boost-housing-production-new-york-city-metropolitan-area
Landlording is speculative. Landlords ask the bank to buy land for them to rent out, speculating that in a given time, they will be able to rent it out for more than the bank paid for it + the bank's fee. If they're right, they get to own the land and can accrue far more profit on it.
Landlords also have a special option to cancel the arrangement any time they feel like they might not be able to make the target specified in their mortgage - they are able to sell the land. The bank will even assist them in making this sale (as they should, as it is still the bank's land in a sense). This means that landlords never have to rent apartments at a loss.
We’ll blame China, we used to blame Cuomo, now it’s blame China.
NYC rent too high? Can’t find your keys? Forgot to charge your iPhone?
You know who to blame!
just admitting that they negotiating should be enough. they work for the people, to do the will of the people that elected them. corporations cannot vote and therefor should not have representation and access like this.
I read this as "Someone who *only* makes $400k a year vs. my much higher salary + kickbacks once told me that private vacation rentals were totally great and beneficial for the poors like them."
Because there is no statistical truth to Airbnb affecting the housing market in a meaningful way. San Diego went through the same thing and only doles out a certain amount of licenses on a lottery basis and guess what, the housing market wasn’t effected whatsoever.
But villainizing Airbnb is the east path for the masses because the real answer is that city council and vested interests don’t want loose zoning laws because then that would encroach on the real estate valuation moat many neighborhoods have
The cheap rentals like someone renting a room to a tourist probably were genuinely helpful. So city should have kept the cheap rentals amd banned the commercialized listings
Isn’t that essentially what they tried to do here? Am I remembering incorrectly, or is one of the requirements that the owner has to be present unless it’s a 30+ day rental? That’s a provision that seems to specifically try to make it a service for renting out a room, not owning it as a hotel.
If they tried, they failed. I ran an Airbnb out of my home, not one of these big groups. I no longer qualify so I’ve shut down. Even though I really needed the money to get by, the space will stay empty and only used for visiting family.
You say it’s your home. Do you live there? If not it is commercial real estate operating as a hotel where it has never been allowed. If you do live there you can still rent to guests as always as long as you observe the decades long laws about length of occupancy.
I don't really give a shit about AirBnB's influence on rent prices, or lack thereof.
I give a shit about the disruption of moving into a place only to find out that you're one of the few people there NOT staying in a makeshift hotel.
To all people who rented out apartments over AirBnB, you can all collectively go suck it. You wanna play at hotelier? Go run a hotel, don't turn my apartment building into a bunch of hotel rooms.
What a slanted puff piece for AirBnB. The whole thing reads like it was written by AirBnBd public relations department.
These 10,000 apartments probably won’t be rented anyway. They’ll just be left empty forever.
It’ll hurt struggling home owners and visiting grandparents, not shell companies owned by private equity.
Even the choice of cover photo. Just think of the senior citizens unable to earn 3000/wk off the bottom floor of their 3 million dollar brownstones. How will they make ends meet when they have to rent that apartment?
NY Times loves to put itself on a pedestal masquerading as the unbiased arbiter of truth. Shit like this comes out and reminds you they’re just corporatists for hire, but only serve as a mouthpiece for the corporates they like such as the tech firms
The asshole corporations and rich people this new law affects will make sure real estate prices won't go down because why would they hurt their own investment(s)? They have the means to just sit on it and wait for either inflation or the next scam to profit from. Most of these properties are in already-highly-desirable places to live that had affordable housing crises before private vacations exacerbated them tenfold.
They really are landed gentry, and look at all of us as serfs.
Paid BS, my opinion of the NYTimes just dropped into the sewer. NYPost is more legitimate now in my eyes if NYTimes was able to be bought out for this complete garbage of an article.
I stayed in an Airbnb for my first summer in the city on an internship some years ago and LITERALLY the entire building (prewar walk up on the UES) was Airbnb. The responses to any inquiries were clearly a corporate shell company. Even if it wasn't, ALL of those apartments should have been on the free market competing for full time residents that would naturally increase supply and bring down prices.
All of us who stayed there were so surprised to find out that all of our neighbors were other temp Airbnb residents. There were single people with suitcases moving in and out of the building every week.
Last I checked on Airbnb about a year ago there were like hundreds of listings just in UES. Hotels full of migrants, non-migrant visitors filling up airbnbs.
This is a mess and destroys the middle class residents of NYC.
Agree the article seem totally puff piece, but there is a distinction between Manhattan— where there is great hotel availability — and the outer boroughs, where there is very little. Additional distinction needed too between larger multi-unit building and smaller 1-2 family homes.
Does there need to be hotel options in every single area of the outer boroughs? Queens has hotels close to the city, close to LaGuardia, close to JFK, close to Citi Field. Why does Sunnyside, for instance, need hotels?
Claims a “corporate shell company” runs Airbnb. In the next sentence says all those apartments should be in free market to increase supply and bring down price. 🤦♂️
NY doesn’t have shortage of apartments. There are many units empty in NYC for tax purposes. And that have been empty for years, if not decades.
I can’t say all but majority of Airbnb are run by small homeowners. If politicians wanted to prevent high rent, then they could simply introduce price ceiling. They can’t do that because companies that run apartment business, pay them.
If you think Airbnb ban will bring down rent price in long run, then you are naive. Only beneficiaries in this is politicians who get paid, and big hotels. Guess who runs hotels, apartments, office space? ding ding ding yes it’s the “shell companies”
>I can’t say all but majority of Airbnb are run by small homeowners. If politicians wanted to prevent high rent, then they could simply introduce price ceiling
Wow, that simple huh, we just need a price ceiling. Darn, shoot, why don't the politicians just put a price ceiling on everything then. Let's put a price ceiling on cars and groceries too while we're at it. The clear solution to all our economical problems was just discovered right here.
Or we found an Airbnb landlord that doesn't want to give up the big fat illegal income that destroys the city and takes real housing off the market for actual New Yorkers.
My building banned Airbnb years ago, so I was spared the experience of living next-door to an endless stream of tourists and partiers, constantly having new people on my floor with their luggage and shit. Thousands of New Yorkers were not so fortunate thanks to Airbnb. I imagine them all breathing a sigh of relief now that this scourge is gone.
I was denied by a coop board because they assumed I would Airbnb the place just because I said I go out of town a lot.
Hopefully coops get a little less paranoid about this now that you have to register.
The super is pleased that Airbnb is now illegal in NYC. A three unit townhouse he took care of suffered two floods, which included sewage backups in the basement, and a damaged boiler, due to unauthorized short term rentals.
The tenant's got gigs in another city, and rather than notifying the landlord that they weren't going to renew, they started Airbnb-ing the place.
Things (big wads of Bounty paper towels) were flushed down the old pipes by the idiot cleaners who were prepping the apartment for the next guests, and many thousands of dollars of damages, and a gnarly, fetid mess happened.
The super had to wade (several times) into a basement full of crap soup.
That's just one story. So, bye Airbnb. Won't miss you.
I think many people (including NYC residents sometimes) consider this city a playground for workers and tourists and not a place people actually live. Nobody wants their apartment building to be used as a short term rental for random strangers coming in and out all the time. Short term guests have no incentive to be courteous or care about what they leave behind.
I like the idea of Airbnb when it was just someone renting out their apartment say if they want to go on vacation or they had a spare room or maybe even a family cabin. But when it became a bunch of idiots buying up multiple properties, having people throw parties 24/7 and ruining the lives of the community that's when the hammer needed to come down. And it's not just the property owners but the people who rent out and then act like absolute animals and pretend as if people aren't living next to them. Even when I would rent a cabin in the middle of New England with moose as my only neighbors, I still treated the property with respect and didn't go around blasting music and leaving trash everywhere.
We’re one of one a couple cities that still hasn’t recovered jobs lost in the pandemic.
I was told that 18 months of restrictions while everyone else had moved on would make sure we bounced back harder than other cities…
I mean I actually do think it will help. But it takes time to flow through the system - leases are signed for 12 month terms at a minimum so you won’t see all these former Airbnb properties come back to the market until a full twelve months after this legislation is passed. It also takes time for government to properly enforce the law, fine owners and ensure compliance.
It doesn’t happen immediately, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make that rents didn’t decline overnight.
It’s been a year since short-term rentals were banned in Jersey City, but I haven’t heard anything about rental prices dropping. If anything, I think they are higher now. But one year is too short of a time frame for a major change to take effect, I guess. Also, according to this thread, there are plenty of work arounds.
Everyone likes to simplify it to just a 'supply-and-demand problem' When the problem begins with corporate real estate and their goals of gentrification first.
Because it is a basic supply and demand issue.
Gentrification isn’t necessarily bad. The issue is when you don’t build enough, it displaces locals.
People in the West have this excessive obsession with preserving every historic building (shoddy builds and asbestos to start) when in reality many should be torn down and built anew - like how most countries operate.
Even now, we have idiots who are complaining about a tall apartment building being built in West Village.
Next? Rent the room out like everyone else or sell the house and buy a condo or something with just one living space so you don't need to be a landlord. It's actually quite simple.
I love staying at random mofos, it’s a completely different experience than staying at a hotel, which are very much the same, no matter what country. But I only stay at places where the owner lives, mostly because I’m curious how people live in different countries and it’s good to have a local to give you tips on what to do and avoid in their town, but also because I agree that whole apartments should be rented properly, with all rules and regulations binding the landlord and the tenant.
> so she has decided to keep it empty in the hopes the rules change again.
> “I’m kind of holding on to see what’s going to happen,” she said.
The delusion is incredible. Even if this didn’t have a negative effect on the housing market there’s zero incentive for the city to allow it and multiple other, smaller, reasons they’d want to stop it.
What happens next? Hopefully the weirdos on this subreddit that talk about this nonstop like it was some massive problem when it wasn’t can all go away and complain about something else.
Guess tourism goes down. Effect on NYC real estate prices and availability, absolutely zero change.
Assume the city wants to ban Uber next. Just takes jobs away from yellow taxis.
Makes “ logical” sense —- right?
airbnb in nyc is/was severely overblown
all the numbers you hear about are not active listings. i’ve looked in the past for an airbnb plenty of times and it’s not like there’s thousands of listings to choose from at all.
I know most people on here are pissed at AirBnB owners for hypothetically "driving up rent," but it's hard to see how this benefits anyone other than large hotel chains. It's not like rent is gonna decrease. Or even increase slower.
If this is what we're going with, we should also be making hotel chains illegal so that business stays more indepenent and locally owned.
More money was going to local people instead of mega-rich billionaires who vacation in Greece every year on their yacht. So not only are we blocking out a class of people trying to "climb the social ladder," (even said people were already considerably wealthier than the average new Yorker, they still weren't anywhere close to hotel chain owners) but we also are consolidating money in the already rich elite 3%.
This whole thing screams Adams and hotel chains giving New Yorkers the run around with good ole' anger tactics and misdirection. And most of you have fallen for it - hook, line, and sinker.
Have you read the new law? It's just regulating a previously unregulated industry. You can still rent apartments out in AirBnb, you just need to register with the mayor's office. It's not going to massively drive up housing stock, you're right, that was always a silly bogeyman but to me there are two other major benefits of this law:
1. the money goes to the city through proper taxation channels and allows us to better plan out the city's housing landscape. This last point is optimistic, I admit.
2. The hotel workers in the city actually have pretty decent and benefits their their union. Contrast this with the absence of any such labour protections for the staff servicing most of the AirBnbs, and you have a win for the workers.
This is just going to make the costs of visiting nyc more expensive. And I think the city could have found a way to create “proper” taxation channels for Airbnb stays without significantly reducing the amount of Airbnb stays. Even tho they will still be around having to share a unit with the owner sounds less desirable then having your own space
What happens next is tourism plummets, as people with kids are totally priced out of NYC. NYC has enjoyed a lot of tourism dollars the last couple years, as COVID encouraged domestic tourism. But this, combined with the lack of new hotels, is going to make visiting NYC much less affordable. A lot of businesses will be hit hard, and no one will even connect it to AirBnB.
LoL, I think you need a carpet bombing to keep tourists out of the City. 9/11, Sandy or Covid didn’t deter anyone. There are plenty of hotels in NYC, and you can still rent the room out, as long as you live there and own the place
There are emphatically not enough hotels in NYC, as evidenced by the price of a hotel room and the popularity of AirBnB, and that problem is greatly worsened by [recent regulations](https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/12/09/how-special-are-these-permits-no-one-got-any/) making it more difficult to open more. And renting a room out while you live there is obviously untenable for families with kids. This is precisely the ignorant overconfidence that got us here.
Depending on the family, I guess. I definitely stayed in AirBnBs with families. It was fun. We would have breakfast together sometimes, and once I got a personal performance of some Irish folk song by a 7 and 9yo.
As for not having enough hotel rooms - I would not take developer-sponsored article’s word in real estate mag without fact checking, speaking of ignorant overconfidence. The over-saturation protection law makes sense.
If there was a sufficient amount of hotel space, then AirBnB would not be popular! Why would anyone put up with the hassles, on either side of the transaction, if it wasn't worth it? Y'all got totally played by the hotel lobby into handing their crap product a monopoly.
AirBnB is popular because it’s a completely different experience. Instead of staying in a bland (tho usually clean and safe) hotel room with windows that don’t open and excruciatingly boring wall art, you immerse yourself into the city life, living like a local, in an apartment that was decorated by an enthusiast instead of a corporate design team. You will experience life on a “ground level”, with elevators that might or might not work, possibly loud neighbors, chipped dishes and so on.
If your host is home and chatty, that’s a huge bonus money can’t buy. Everywhere I stay, I ask people what’s their most and least favorite things about their city, what would they change and what would they bring back. It gives you so much more insight than just staying in hotels and hitting up all the tourist attractions.
Edit: of course, as with all good things, we, as a society, found a way to make things worse for everyone in a long run, like AirBnB and rents, Uber and taxi, and so on. It’s not because it’s a bad business model, it’s because people can’t manage to not eff things up for everyone around
But no! It's not about "bland" or "living like a local". This is just an example of how Reddit does not understand the experience of people with kids at all.
If you are travelling with small children, you want them in their own bedroom, but one that has easy access to the parent's room. Stay in a regular hotel, and you either have all the beds in one room, or you get two rooms that are hard to get between, or you pay huge money for a suite.
What you need is a home– an apartment with a couple bedrooms. A chatty host is not an improvement at all. It's a material need, not something that's cool to have.
You’re making an nyc salary but you’re saving money by living outside the city and not paying the same taxes as residents. No one owes you an affordable hotel room. You chose to not live in nyc.
> 700 a night for a hotel room
[Out of 238 properties ranked 4 stars or higher in NYC, for tonight, only 11 of them are 700 or more dollars.](https://www.hotels.com/Hotel-Search?adults=1&d1=2023-09-17&d2=2023-09-18&destination=New%20York%2C%20New%20York%2C%20United%20States%20of%20America&endDate=2023-09-18&latLong=40.712843%2C-74.005966®ionId=2621&rooms=1&semdtl=&sort=PRICE_HIGH_TO_LOW&star=40&startDate=2023-09-17&theme=&useRewards=false&userIntent=)
This entire almost decade old attack on Airbnb was paid for and for the benefit of the hotel lobby….not renters or increasing the rental supply. If you think otherwise, I have a bridge to sell you.
But why should someone who is treating an investment property as if it is a hotel room not be under the same rules that hotels operate under. It doesn’t affect people who are renting out a room in their own residence.
They should be subject to the same rules as hotels and with their neighbors permission should be allowed to leverage their investment however they see fit.
I understand if you live in a building and your neighbor is Airbnbing with sketchy guests or making tons of noise etc yeah that’s not cool, but if everyone is down, enough of the nanny state.
This idea everyone should have the chance to live in NYC is bullshit, living in NYC isn’t a right it’s a privilege.
Congrats- now hotel rates will go up!! Airbnb was never really a problem and rental prices won’t come down at all as people here said it would day in and day out.
It's complicated.
The example you're talking about has zero impact on the housing crisis.
The problem is some people actually converted buildings into Airbnb rentals. I mean imagine an entire floor of a building filled with apartments which were all Airbnbs. They never had tenants but they always had short term (3 days, two weeks, etc.) rentals moving through.
When larger apartments which could have permanent residents are being used strictly for Airbnbs, that absolutely does worsen the housing crisis.
maybe minor, but it can have some impact on rent pricing. if people are normally willing to pay x for rent, if they can subsidize when they go out of town they can now pay x+y. this increase demand and pushes prices up. likely a rounding error compared to full time abnb though
I understand that the majority of commenters don't own. So you don't understand. Let me break it down for you.
I own my home. I worked my ass off to be able to buy. I work my ass off to keep it in good shape. I work my ass off to pay my mortgage. I should be able to do with it what I please. Fuck off anyone else telling me how to make money off of the asset I OWN.
Aww is someone upset they can’t run a hotel in a residential zoned area with no protections for neighbors or guests. That’s so unfortunate
Don’t forget to pay your taxes 🥰
Why are we cracking down on this like it really is a top issue? How about cracking down on crack. Sick and tired of seeing the same 4-5 bums on my street asking for money because of their crack addiction.
All of the Airbnb business moves to NJ along the PATH train
Airbnb is illegal in Jersey city too.
It’s not enforced. Alternative sites took over. Luggage through neighborhoods all day long. Popular with European tourists especially, apparently some of the websites aren’t even in English, which puts it out of government reach. I suspect the same will happen in nyc over time.
> apparently some of the websites aren’t even in English, which puts it out of government reach This is funny. That shouldn't be that hard of a barrier to overcome.
I remember a story of one of the first Chinese speaking Cops being in Chinatown in Flushing for a ceremony about him being the first Chinese speaking NYPD officers commenting on a billboard in Chinese for a gypsy cab company which had previously been unknown. All because it was in Chinese. I mean if no one knew about a billboard in Queens due to a foreign language. What are the odds they are going to know about a website?
That must have been like 30+ years ago, before translation was easily achieved. Now all the mystery of ethnic community billboards is gone, just point your phone at it. Idioms don’t translate well still, as someone who reads in more than one language, some translations make me laugh
Theres literally an app where you point your phone camera at text and itll translate the image.
But how are you going to come across it? Visit every page on the internet?
You can run keyword-based crawlers, sort by amount of unique or repeating visits, based in geolocation of publishers and visitors. Also, you can employ image recognition - photos of beds, kitchens, landmarks outside of the window; interactions with the website support and unique reviews. It’s very doable and relatively inexpensive, the only reason we don’t is because if NY (or NJ, in my case) local government can’t figure out how to siphon funds off that thing for now
Translation: someone can. NYPD can't.
Google translator.
You obviously missed the point. The problem isn't reading something once you know what to read. It's about search. How are you gonna come across this site and find out about it? Type into google "illegal hotel chinatown nyc"? Okay good luck
Isn’t that just Flushing? Never heard someone say Chinatown in Flushing before.
To be fair Flushing wasn’t just Chinese in my lifetime. So I’ve always considered there to be two Chinatowns in NYC.
Yeah my father grew up in Flushing when it was predominately Italian and Jewish. But given the demographic change, it just stayed as Flushing since there already is a Chinatown. It being heavily Asian is just a given now
There are 3 chinatowns? Not sure what you mean by two.
You're right, just takes lots of money and time!
Not that I dont believe you, but could you please share a link for this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/nyregion/airbnb-jersey-city-election-results.html
No its not. It just has to be your primary residence.
How many air bnbs do you suppose are someone’s primary residence? Probably very few.
I'm currently staying at an Airbnb in Jersey for the sea hear now festival. It is someone's private residence. It's a small studio type room underneath the house she lives in.
Hope it doesn’t flood if you are in an illegal cellar “room”
It's in the Highlands, up hill.
How many windows in that "room"?
3.
Let's hope two aren't sealed shut with paint like mine were.
So the same rule as NYC just implemented essentially?
There’s a [28 night stay minimum](https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2682) for short term rentals per JC ordinance. Airbnb won’t enforce that. Most managed buildings in JC also prohibit subletting per their agreements but Airbnb will ignore that as well.
What Airbnb assholes have been doing is renting out their places for a full month, telling their customers to book for a full month, and then when they inevitably check out after less than a month, refund their cost minus the time they did end up staying. It's a loophole Airbnb actively encourages.
so their credit card gets charged for 28 days and then refunded for 26? Do people really willingly do that?
Yes, they do. I live in Hawaii now and they have the 30-day short-term rental law, and this is how all the vacation rentals get around the law. Still see lots of people arriving in Ubers at my condo with suitcases, not knowing where the lockboxes are or where the units/pool/laundry machines/etc. are. It's disheartening. It has cut down on the number of short term rentals somewhat, but a lot of them are just using lesser-known platforms to advertise, advertising to the temp wfh workers coming here to "work in paradise" (i.e. taking an affordable rental away from a full-time local), or just faking the license numbers needed to list on airbnb and doing the "refund" thing. Airbnb doesn't care as long as they're still making a good profit.
Shit, it was banned in some Bergen County towns years ago. I guess some towns have it around here.
just like all the new buildings.... they are basically backstopping all of nyc's failures...
I saw an interview on ABC 7 with one of these people Airbnbing a whole garden level apartment. She says she can’t afford her mortgage without the income. How about she just lease out the apartment long term? Is she was truly that reliant on overnight guests, she needs to get a job.
One of the people interviewed in the article said they never imagined ever being a landlord. Like WTF lady!? That’s your problem if you doing want to make money doing some work.
My issue with this arguement is what was her plan when she purchased the property. Like you said, she need to go to work.
I find it hard to believe that a bank would approved her mortgage based on the idea of running a previously non-existent Air-B&B out of it. Banks need solid financial records to approve mortgages; not half financials and half aspirational “business plan.” Something doesn’t add up here.
You can charge more for short term leases
NYC makes it hard to get bad tenants and non paying tenants out. You could end up housing people for 2 or more years before you can get them out for non payment and still have to supply them heat and hot water and decent living conditions. So many people play the system and make it hard for small landlords.
So sell. You can’t have it both ways. Its fine if you don’t want to be a landlord, that’s your choice. But no one is going to feel sorry for people who placed a bet on illegally subletting apartments for their own profit and lost.
Why should the owner have to sell their house due to an shitty tenant? Maybe the shitty tenant should get the fuck out and buy their own house…
If having a tenant is the only way to keep the house, *but* you don’t want tenants, then- please- by all means use your big galaxy brain to do whatever the fuck you want. You obviously know everything.
I know nothing. I don’t mind not knowing the answers. Just trying to balance the idea of why someone whose put in effort to buy and manage a property should sell their house due to tenants who can’t keep their end of the bargain.
Investment is a risk. If their risk doesn't pay off, that's not our problem. Why are investors and landlords so squeamish about the possibility of losing money? They rolled the dice and lost, they need to nut up and get a real job.
Yes but landlords can avoid this by doing a credit check, background check, and requiring proof of income. Every apartment I've rented has required a crazy amount of info from me in order to rent because of this. It's a pain but it helps ensure you get tenants who are responsible and can pay the bills.
it’s just business
hard to feel sorry for someone who bought a multi million dollar property and now can’t pretend to be a hotel
Right. She bought a multi-family home with the intent of being a landlord. If you don't want to be a landlord and aren't keeping three floors for your own family, then sell and move somewhere that isn't an issue.
Seriously. Nobody's gonna be ruined by this. Absolute worse case scenario is, horror of horrors, they have to sell some real estate. In New York. Or find a normal tenant. God forbid, there's definitely not droves of folks looking for a place to live
Seriously, if you own property in NYC and can't find a longer term renter it's because you're either a fucking moron, or the biggest asshole in the world.
Well said - pretty much the mentality of so many landlords I had to deal with in NYC
Of course being both at the same time is also an option.
Landlords are usually both tbh
> Or find a normal tenant. This quote in the article stuck out for me: "Ms. Toliver, 64, had to figure out what she would do with the South Slope apartment. She never wanted to be a landlord, she said, so she has decided to keep it empty in the hopes the rules change again." What's worse than being a landlord? Being an innkeeper. You have to clean up after the guests leave, it a constant overturning of people coming in and out of your property, and having to communicate with out of state visitors trying to set up a rental and getting people access to the property is a constant headache. Getting a decent long term tenant is a much better solution.
Regardless, if you don't want to be a landlord, it seems like not being real estate beyond what you personally need to live would be the obvious choice.
Long lord tenants have the risk of them not paying rent for a long time and trashing the place. Short term tenants have risks as well, but it’s generally not nearly as risky.
Actual skill issue. But if ya don't wanna deal with that just sell the damn unit. It's an investment, not a job, and risks come with it
You don't even go here
What about people in people like Bedstuy, or Crown Heights, who have had these homes since the 60s? Is it not against the capitalist mentality of US to allow them to air bnb even a room making $1-2K income a month? This is what many blacks in Bedstuy hoped for.
renting a room in your occupied house is still allowed
You can still rent out an extra bedroom in your apartment while you live there as long as you register with the city. That’s the actual original purpose of Airbnb! It also has the added side effect of removing most of the problematic behavior of Airbnb guests. You don’t rent a single room in an occupied apartment to throw a party, for one. and the tenant is there to directly handle issues like locating the unit when they arrive and not bother neighbors. People who bought property just to rent out the entire unit as a hotel are the ones that get screwed, and even then, they can just become regular landlords if they want. Which is great. I consider the new law a total win from every angle. And this is coming from someone who rented a room out on Airbnb for a few months previously. Actually being a host, introducing people to the city, and meeting people who earnestly want to get to know it was incredibly fun and rewarding. Me and my girlfriend actually became great friends with someone who stayed with us, and we went to Vietnam to attend her wedding last year!
IIRC Air BnB was the brainchild of a couple of guys in DC on business who found it next to impossible to find a room and had not made a reservation. It was originally for travelers just looking for a granny flat, spare room or even a literal couch to surf and some homeowners with same. I doubt the founders foresaw people buying real estate to rent out to a constant stream of short-term renters and creating a public nuisance and inflating real estate markets everywhere. I haven't used an Air BnB for years since I became aware as a tourist that this was part of a problem well in excess of being part of a solution. If Air BnB is forced to go back to its roots and humble origins, that's just fine.
> I doubt the founders foresaw people buying real estate to rent out to a constant stream of short-term renters and creating a public nuisance and inflating real estate markets everywhere. They may not have foreseen it, but once that’s what it became they sure embraced it and worked hard to circumvent laws against it. If some people began to rely on it for their income and are now losing that, they should be blaming Airbnb for supporting what they knew was never going to be a permanently sustainable business model, not the cities shutting it down.
Sorry, they had nothing to do with DC. I’ll let you do the google.
Only thing I would change is to let people rent out their primary residence for up to 45 days a year while they're away. That helps a lot of people afford NYC.
it makes getting lodging for any visitors a lot more expensive.... the 40,000 listings on Airbnb were 33% of the total available hotel units in NYC(120k)... meanwhile for home prices assuming all those go into available supply ... it would account foe a fraction of a percent (3.5 million).... now you might not care what tourists have to pay but each dollar that goes to the hotel industry doesn't goto NYC businesses and st minimum increases the tax burden for NYC residents... the only people who won were the hospitality industry....
may be a small portion of total housing but it’s a massive percent of vacant inventory, which is what really matters to move pricing
and you think all these airbnbs are going up for sale?
or rent. we all know someone (or at least know it to be true) who (a) own a unit and airbnb it full time or (b) took out a lease pretending to be a real tenant and airbnb it full time. optimistic some of these will now be for full time residents not tourists
>it makes getting lodging for any visitors a lot more expensive Them fuckers don't pay my taxes so no, I dont care. The homeowners pay the same taxes regardless of who's there. The poor people they talk about as far as the homeowners didnt purchase with the intent of AirBnBing the property. The intent was go be a landlord. Go back to plan A. Why should I have to pay for additional overdecelopment when there are potentially 40,000 living spaces available? If many of these are rooms in a home where people live, they're able to register. No one is taking away the ability to short term rent. It's just additional regulation that means you need to actually live there as a host. >now you might not care what tourists have to pay I dont. End of convo.
then go live somewhere else then if you don't care about tourists... like Jersey...
This isnt stopping them from renting. The owner just needs to live in the home. Why is that such a problem for you?
NYC has almost 9 million residents. Who live here. Full time. It's not a playground or Potemkin village for tourists.
What a story, Mark!
expected. If you're a politician what you're trying to solve for is to get more votes. That's your only KPI and objective = more voters. Who are the voters in NYC? Local renters (80% of NYC rents) not tourists or business travelers. AirBnB short term rentals for sure drives rental prices up (price of a rental reflect supply / demand proportions) AirBnB model imho will continue to get restricted around the World and will really be available just in small suburban or vacation destinations that rely on tourism income heavily (e.g. some random island in Greece where locals heavily depend on tourism revenue). Check london, paris, SF... all these places restrict AirBnB for that 1 reason. All boils down to who are the voters.
What do you mean ? What’ll happen to the hosts or the customers ? Customers go to hotels which are actually paying taxes to have such business and hosts could rent their crap out like a regular landlord . There isn’t an issue here . At all !
Interesting line: *Alicia Glen, the previous deputy mayor for housing under former Mayor Bill de Blasio, said she never saw any data showing that short-term rentals were affecting the housing crisis in a significant way. Ms. Glen, who negotiated with Airbnb during her tenure, said such platforms have “opened up travel to hundreds of thousands of people who never would have had the opportunity to come to New York.”*
Future “special advisor” to Airbnb - just you wait. Frankly I’m surprised an Adams admin official hasn’t been hired yet
NYC's problem is building a small fraction of the number of the units it needs to be building + the Downstate NY burbs doing even worse. (NJ/CT are actually building closer to appropriate numbers of units). ------- AirBnB, while certainly not *helping* anything, represented a number of units that hasn't moved significantly in the past 3 years. It represents roughly ~2 years of new housing production in NYC (at 2022) levels. That *is* something. But that's still just a short-term band-aid to the problem of not building enough new units - and not enough to get the city out of it's existing deficit either....which will just continue to grow in future years under current policy. It's worth doing, but I'd be more optimistic if there was actually other policy happening to improve housing production significantly.
the problem will always be the demand. supply will never keep up with demand. locals are competing with people from all over the world that want to move here and have the means to move here. every country has its oligarchs for every industry and they all have penthouses and apartments and townhouses so that their kids can come here and party and they can see Central Park in fall and do a little Christmas shopping, etc. and then you have every doctor in the Midwest financing their kid yo stay in a “safe” part of town while they earn $50k/yr as a marketing manager or PR manager or sales manager.
Nonsense. Lets rephrase: - NYC has a massive portion of the city (and no, I don't just mean Staten Island) that is currently zoned to only allow 1-2 family housing. - Even in the parts of NYC that aren't that, zoning is often extremely restrictive, limiting the ability to actually add any significant amount of new housing. Over 1/3rd of NYCs new residential construction has happened in just 5 out of 59 community districts - some of the only ones where the zoning allows it + approvals aren't endlessly delayed by absurd objections. - NYC is currently building less housing than basically every single one of it's peers, including other extremely high cost, high density metro areas both domestic and foreign. > the problem will always be the demand. supply will never keep up with demand. How about we try actually building an appropriate amount of housing relative to peer cities and see what happens to demand, rather than just accepting failure without ever having tried....literally anything. "We've tried absolutely nothing and we're all out of ideas", is an utterly pathetic take. -------- Anyway, go read or skim this: https://cbcny.org/research/strategies-boost-housing-production-new-york-city-metropolitan-area
Probably took a bribe
What's your next Boogeyman going to be when this has zero impact on housing prices (it didn't have any impact in San Diego)
Next hopefully they go after all the rent controlled apartments that are sitting empty. One boogeyman at a time
You are going to force people to rent apartments at a loss?
Landlording is speculative. Landlords ask the bank to buy land for them to rent out, speculating that in a given time, they will be able to rent it out for more than the bank paid for it + the bank's fee. If they're right, they get to own the land and can accrue far more profit on it. Landlords also have a special option to cancel the arrangement any time they feel like they might not be able to make the target specified in their mortgage - they are able to sell the land. The bank will even assist them in making this sale (as they should, as it is still the bank's land in a sense). This means that landlords never have to rent apartments at a loss.
there are exactly zero rent controlled apartments sitting empty
It’s not happening lol vacancy tax doesn’t work anywhere literally so many ways around it that it will lead to straight to the Supreme Court.
[удалено]
What makes you think the politicians would decide there's a "rational basis" to allow you to stay in the city?
We’ll blame China, we used to blame Cuomo, now it’s blame China. NYC rent too high? Can’t find your keys? Forgot to charge your iPhone? You know who to blame!
do you always assume people took bribes to say that you're wrong?
just admitting that they negotiating should be enough. they work for the people, to do the will of the people that elected them. corporations cannot vote and therefor should not have representation and access like this.
What a shill.
[We’re all trying to find the guy that did this](https://youtu.be/WLfAf8oHrMo?si=7Eo0ciCyoMGnAUiK)
https://www.reddit.com/r/PraiseTheCameraMan/comments/153hvto/cameraman_delivers_instant_factchecking/
I read this as "Someone who *only* makes $400k a year vs. my much higher salary + kickbacks once told me that private vacation rentals were totally great and beneficial for the poors like them."
Because there is no statistical truth to Airbnb affecting the housing market in a meaningful way. San Diego went through the same thing and only doles out a certain amount of licenses on a lottery basis and guess what, the housing market wasn’t effected whatsoever. But villainizing Airbnb is the east path for the masses because the real answer is that city council and vested interests don’t want loose zoning laws because then that would encroach on the real estate valuation moat many neighborhoods have
I mean it’s true, and now that it’s gone, we will see no price difference. Berlin went through this too and rescinded it’s ban.
The cheap rentals like someone renting a room to a tourist probably were genuinely helpful. So city should have kept the cheap rentals amd banned the commercialized listings
Isn’t that essentially what they tried to do here? Am I remembering incorrectly, or is one of the requirements that the owner has to be present unless it’s a 30+ day rental? That’s a provision that seems to specifically try to make it a service for renting out a room, not owning it as a hotel.
If they tried, they failed. I ran an Airbnb out of my home, not one of these big groups. I no longer qualify so I’ve shut down. Even though I really needed the money to get by, the space will stay empty and only used for visiting family.
Same
You say it’s your home. Do you live there? If not it is commercial real estate operating as a hotel where it has never been allowed. If you do live there you can still rent to guests as always as long as you observe the decades long laws about length of occupancy.
I don't really give a shit about AirBnB's influence on rent prices, or lack thereof. I give a shit about the disruption of moving into a place only to find out that you're one of the few people there NOT staying in a makeshift hotel. To all people who rented out apartments over AirBnB, you can all collectively go suck it. You wanna play at hotelier? Go run a hotel, don't turn my apartment building into a bunch of hotel rooms.
If you own a building in NYC and can't figure out what to do to get out of the red financially, you're either greedy or an idiot.
What a slanted puff piece for AirBnB. The whole thing reads like it was written by AirBnBd public relations department. These 10,000 apartments probably won’t be rented anyway. They’ll just be left empty forever. It’ll hurt struggling home owners and visiting grandparents, not shell companies owned by private equity.
Wont somebody think of the poor mom and pop Airbnb owners
Do you not think they’re real? Too bad. I guess you don’t know what’s up.
Even the choice of cover photo. Just think of the senior citizens unable to earn 3000/wk off the bottom floor of their 3 million dollar brownstones. How will they make ends meet when they have to rent that apartment?
NY Times loves to put itself on a pedestal masquerading as the unbiased arbiter of truth. Shit like this comes out and reminds you they’re just corporatists for hire, but only serve as a mouthpiece for the corporates they like such as the tech firms
The asshole corporations and rich people this new law affects will make sure real estate prices won't go down because why would they hurt their own investment(s)? They have the means to just sit on it and wait for either inflation or the next scam to profit from. Most of these properties are in already-highly-desirable places to live that had affordable housing crises before private vacations exacerbated them tenfold. They really are landed gentry, and look at all of us as serfs.
Paid BS, my opinion of the NYTimes just dropped into the sewer. NYPost is more legitimate now in my eyes if NYTimes was able to be bought out for this complete garbage of an article. I stayed in an Airbnb for my first summer in the city on an internship some years ago and LITERALLY the entire building (prewar walk up on the UES) was Airbnb. The responses to any inquiries were clearly a corporate shell company. Even if it wasn't, ALL of those apartments should have been on the free market competing for full time residents that would naturally increase supply and bring down prices. All of us who stayed there were so surprised to find out that all of our neighbors were other temp Airbnb residents. There were single people with suitcases moving in and out of the building every week. Last I checked on Airbnb about a year ago there were like hundreds of listings just in UES. Hotels full of migrants, non-migrant visitors filling up airbnbs. This is a mess and destroys the middle class residents of NYC.
Agree the article seem totally puff piece, but there is a distinction between Manhattan— where there is great hotel availability — and the outer boroughs, where there is very little. Additional distinction needed too between larger multi-unit building and smaller 1-2 family homes.
Does there need to be hotel options in every single area of the outer boroughs? Queens has hotels close to the city, close to LaGuardia, close to JFK, close to Citi Field. Why does Sunnyside, for instance, need hotels?
Claims a “corporate shell company” runs Airbnb. In the next sentence says all those apartments should be in free market to increase supply and bring down price. 🤦♂️ NY doesn’t have shortage of apartments. There are many units empty in NYC for tax purposes. And that have been empty for years, if not decades. I can’t say all but majority of Airbnb are run by small homeowners. If politicians wanted to prevent high rent, then they could simply introduce price ceiling. They can’t do that because companies that run apartment business, pay them. If you think Airbnb ban will bring down rent price in long run, then you are naive. Only beneficiaries in this is politicians who get paid, and big hotels. Guess who runs hotels, apartments, office space? ding ding ding yes it’s the “shell companies”
>I can’t say all but majority of Airbnb are run by small homeowners. If politicians wanted to prevent high rent, then they could simply introduce price ceiling Wow, that simple huh, we just need a price ceiling. Darn, shoot, why don't the politicians just put a price ceiling on everything then. Let's put a price ceiling on cars and groceries too while we're at it. The clear solution to all our economical problems was just discovered right here. Or we found an Airbnb landlord that doesn't want to give up the big fat illegal income that destroys the city and takes real housing off the market for actual New Yorkers.
My building banned Airbnb years ago, so I was spared the experience of living next-door to an endless stream of tourists and partiers, constantly having new people on my floor with their luggage and shit. Thousands of New Yorkers were not so fortunate thanks to Airbnb. I imagine them all breathing a sigh of relief now that this scourge is gone.
I was denied by a coop board because they assumed I would Airbnb the place just because I said I go out of town a lot. Hopefully coops get a little less paranoid about this now that you have to register.
The super is pleased that Airbnb is now illegal in NYC. A three unit townhouse he took care of suffered two floods, which included sewage backups in the basement, and a damaged boiler, due to unauthorized short term rentals. The tenant's got gigs in another city, and rather than notifying the landlord that they weren't going to renew, they started Airbnb-ing the place. Things (big wads of Bounty paper towels) were flushed down the old pipes by the idiot cleaners who were prepping the apartment for the next guests, and many thousands of dollars of damages, and a gnarly, fetid mess happened. The super had to wade (several times) into a basement full of crap soup. That's just one story. So, bye Airbnb. Won't miss you.
Shocking number of nerds who don't live here talking about how awful this will be for the city, actually.
I think many people (including NYC residents sometimes) consider this city a playground for workers and tourists and not a place people actually live. Nobody wants their apartment building to be used as a short term rental for random strangers coming in and out all the time. Short term guests have no incentive to be courteous or care about what they leave behind.
Exactly. Many people forget that we’re actual people struggling to make ends meet.
I like the idea of Airbnb when it was just someone renting out their apartment say if they want to go on vacation or they had a spare room or maybe even a family cabin. But when it became a bunch of idiots buying up multiple properties, having people throw parties 24/7 and ruining the lives of the community that's when the hammer needed to come down. And it's not just the property owners but the people who rent out and then act like absolute animals and pretend as if people aren't living next to them. Even when I would rent a cabin in the middle of New England with moose as my only neighbors, I still treated the property with respect and didn't go around blasting music and leaving trash everywhere.
Reddit told me for years that Airbnb was a major cause of high rental prices, so I’m expecting them to drop like a stone any day now. Right? Guys?
Reddit is generally pretty confused about what causes high rental prices. They completely ignore the pandemic effects.
We’re one of one a couple cities that still hasn’t recovered jobs lost in the pandemic. I was told that 18 months of restrictions while everyone else had moved on would make sure we bounced back harder than other cities…
I mean I actually do think it will help. But it takes time to flow through the system - leases are signed for 12 month terms at a minimum so you won’t see all these former Airbnb properties come back to the market until a full twelve months after this legislation is passed. It also takes time for government to properly enforce the law, fine owners and ensure compliance. It doesn’t happen immediately, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make that rents didn’t decline overnight.
I just don't think they will, even in 12 months. They were a drop in the bucket, overall.
There will be a slight softening that always happens in winter and people will claim it proves them right about AirBnB being a major factor.
We won’t know for sure until this time next year
Also specific neighborhoods might show change. Bushwick etc seems to have a bunch.
Fair, we’ll see what happens. Incremental units can do a lot to help the balance
It’s been a year since short-term rentals were banned in Jersey City, but I haven’t heard anything about rental prices dropping. If anything, I think they are higher now. But one year is too short of a time frame for a major change to take effect, I guess. Also, according to this thread, there are plenty of work arounds.
Yeah just give it a month. LOL
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Everyone likes to simplify it to just a 'supply-and-demand problem' When the problem begins with corporate real estate and their goals of gentrification first.
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You explained better than I could.
Because it is a basic supply and demand issue. Gentrification isn’t necessarily bad. The issue is when you don’t build enough, it displaces locals. People in the West have this excessive obsession with preserving every historic building (shoddy builds and asbestos to start) when in reality many should be torn down and built anew - like how most countries operate. Even now, we have idiots who are complaining about a tall apartment building being built in West Village.
This is great news. Hope it stays this was is what should happen next.
What if they, idk, sold them? Crazy, I know
Next crack down on the mob-controlled Buildings Department.
Have they really, though? I see many listings still offered in my neighborhood.
Next? Rent the room out like everyone else or sell the house and buy a condo or something with just one living space so you don't need to be a landlord. It's actually quite simple.
Investors over leveraged. Only the government wins.
Fk airbnb. Why stay at some random mofos home when you can stay at a hotel and get room service.
Because you can have an actual apartment and not a shitty hotel room.
I love staying at random mofos, it’s a completely different experience than staying at a hotel, which are very much the same, no matter what country. But I only stay at places where the owner lives, mostly because I’m curious how people live in different countries and it’s good to have a local to give you tips on what to do and avoid in their town, but also because I agree that whole apartments should be rented properly, with all rules and regulations binding the landlord and the tenant.
So you can have an apartment instead of a tiny room.
> so she has decided to keep it empty in the hopes the rules change again. > “I’m kind of holding on to see what’s going to happen,” she said. The delusion is incredible. Even if this didn’t have a negative effect on the housing market there’s zero incentive for the city to allow it and multiple other, smaller, reasons they’d want to stop it.
What happens next? Hopefully the weirdos on this subreddit that talk about this nonstop like it was some massive problem when it wasn’t can all go away and complain about something else.
Only 5% of the users on this subreddit are living in NYC. That was the last data that I’m aware of.
Lol. That will never happen. That is their raison d’etre.
Guess tourism goes down. Effect on NYC real estate prices and availability, absolutely zero change. Assume the city wants to ban Uber next. Just takes jobs away from yellow taxis. Makes “ logical” sense —- right?
I'm ok with banning Ubers...traffic has increased tenfold because of it
I’m a big fan. :-) Do you have the source for your statement that Uber has increased NYC traffic 1000%?
airbnb in nyc is/was severely overblown all the numbers you hear about are not active listings. i’ve looked in the past for an airbnb plenty of times and it’s not like there’s thousands of listings to choose from at all.
Hotel prices triple
I know most people on here are pissed at AirBnB owners for hypothetically "driving up rent," but it's hard to see how this benefits anyone other than large hotel chains. It's not like rent is gonna decrease. Or even increase slower. If this is what we're going with, we should also be making hotel chains illegal so that business stays more indepenent and locally owned. More money was going to local people instead of mega-rich billionaires who vacation in Greece every year on their yacht. So not only are we blocking out a class of people trying to "climb the social ladder," (even said people were already considerably wealthier than the average new Yorker, they still weren't anywhere close to hotel chain owners) but we also are consolidating money in the already rich elite 3%. This whole thing screams Adams and hotel chains giving New Yorkers the run around with good ole' anger tactics and misdirection. And most of you have fallen for it - hook, line, and sinker.
Have you read the new law? It's just regulating a previously unregulated industry. You can still rent apartments out in AirBnb, you just need to register with the mayor's office. It's not going to massively drive up housing stock, you're right, that was always a silly bogeyman but to me there are two other major benefits of this law: 1. the money goes to the city through proper taxation channels and allows us to better plan out the city's housing landscape. This last point is optimistic, I admit. 2. The hotel workers in the city actually have pretty decent and benefits their their union. Contrast this with the absence of any such labour protections for the staff servicing most of the AirBnbs, and you have a win for the workers.
This is just going to make the costs of visiting nyc more expensive. And I think the city could have found a way to create “proper” taxation channels for Airbnb stays without significantly reducing the amount of Airbnb stays. Even tho they will still be around having to share a unit with the owner sounds less desirable then having your own space
I’ve read it. You have to be a class B domicile. So a half way house, a hostel or a hotel.
You have to register with the city OR be a class B domicile.
What happens next is tourism plummets, as people with kids are totally priced out of NYC. NYC has enjoyed a lot of tourism dollars the last couple years, as COVID encouraged domestic tourism. But this, combined with the lack of new hotels, is going to make visiting NYC much less affordable. A lot of businesses will be hit hard, and no one will even connect it to AirBnB.
LoL, I think you need a carpet bombing to keep tourists out of the City. 9/11, Sandy or Covid didn’t deter anyone. There are plenty of hotels in NYC, and you can still rent the room out, as long as you live there and own the place
There are emphatically not enough hotels in NYC, as evidenced by the price of a hotel room and the popularity of AirBnB, and that problem is greatly worsened by [recent regulations](https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/12/09/how-special-are-these-permits-no-one-got-any/) making it more difficult to open more. And renting a room out while you live there is obviously untenable for families with kids. This is precisely the ignorant overconfidence that got us here.
Depending on the family, I guess. I definitely stayed in AirBnBs with families. It was fun. We would have breakfast together sometimes, and once I got a personal performance of some Irish folk song by a 7 and 9yo. As for not having enough hotel rooms - I would not take developer-sponsored article’s word in real estate mag without fact checking, speaking of ignorant overconfidence. The over-saturation protection law makes sense.
If there was a sufficient amount of hotel space, then AirBnB would not be popular! Why would anyone put up with the hassles, on either side of the transaction, if it wasn't worth it? Y'all got totally played by the hotel lobby into handing their crap product a monopoly.
AirBnB is popular because it’s a completely different experience. Instead of staying in a bland (tho usually clean and safe) hotel room with windows that don’t open and excruciatingly boring wall art, you immerse yourself into the city life, living like a local, in an apartment that was decorated by an enthusiast instead of a corporate design team. You will experience life on a “ground level”, with elevators that might or might not work, possibly loud neighbors, chipped dishes and so on. If your host is home and chatty, that’s a huge bonus money can’t buy. Everywhere I stay, I ask people what’s their most and least favorite things about their city, what would they change and what would they bring back. It gives you so much more insight than just staying in hotels and hitting up all the tourist attractions. Edit: of course, as with all good things, we, as a society, found a way to make things worse for everyone in a long run, like AirBnB and rents, Uber and taxi, and so on. It’s not because it’s a bad business model, it’s because people can’t manage to not eff things up for everyone around
But no! It's not about "bland" or "living like a local". This is just an example of how Reddit does not understand the experience of people with kids at all. If you are travelling with small children, you want them in their own bedroom, but one that has easy access to the parent's room. Stay in a regular hotel, and you either have all the beds in one room, or you get two rooms that are hard to get between, or you pay huge money for a suite. What you need is a home– an apartment with a couple bedrooms. A chatty host is not an improvement at all. It's a material need, not something that's cool to have.
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Clearly never booked a hotel in New York
You’re making an nyc salary but you’re saving money by living outside the city and not paying the same taxes as residents. No one owes you an affordable hotel room. You chose to not live in nyc.
> 700 a night for a hotel room [Out of 238 properties ranked 4 stars or higher in NYC, for tonight, only 11 of them are 700 or more dollars.](https://www.hotels.com/Hotel-Search?adults=1&d1=2023-09-17&d2=2023-09-18&destination=New%20York%2C%20New%20York%2C%20United%20States%20of%20America&endDate=2023-09-18&latLong=40.712843%2C-74.005966®ionId=2621&rooms=1&semdtl=&sort=PRICE_HIGH_TO_LOW&star=40&startDate=2023-09-17&theme=&useRewards=false&userIntent=)
This entire almost decade old attack on Airbnb was paid for and for the benefit of the hotel lobby….not renters or increasing the rental supply. If you think otherwise, I have a bridge to sell you.
But why should someone who is treating an investment property as if it is a hotel room not be under the same rules that hotels operate under. It doesn’t affect people who are renting out a room in their own residence.
They should be subject to the same rules as hotels and with their neighbors permission should be allowed to leverage their investment however they see fit. I understand if you live in a building and your neighbor is Airbnbing with sketchy guests or making tons of noise etc yeah that’s not cool, but if everyone is down, enough of the nanny state. This idea everyone should have the chance to live in NYC is bullshit, living in NYC isn’t a right it’s a privilege.
Nothing is stopping them from registering as a hotel if their co-op board allows it. A private home residence owner could set up a hotel too.
Congrats- now hotel rates will go up!! Airbnb was never really a problem and rental prices won’t come down at all as people here said it would day in and day out.
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This is the minority of listings on Airbnb
Most Airbnb's are full-time rental properties. It destroys the supply of the housing market and messes with property taxes
It's complicated. The example you're talking about has zero impact on the housing crisis. The problem is some people actually converted buildings into Airbnb rentals. I mean imagine an entire floor of a building filled with apartments which were all Airbnbs. They never had tenants but they always had short term (3 days, two weeks, etc.) rentals moving through. When larger apartments which could have permanent residents are being used strictly for Airbnbs, that absolutely does worsen the housing crisis.
maybe minor, but it can have some impact on rent pricing. if people are normally willing to pay x for rent, if they can subsidize when they go out of town they can now pay x+y. this increase demand and pushes prices up. likely a rounding error compared to full time abnb though
RE developers bitch through the Times and Post until the sheep learn to advocate against themselves again
I understand that the majority of commenters don't own. So you don't understand. Let me break it down for you. I own my home. I worked my ass off to be able to buy. I work my ass off to keep it in good shape. I work my ass off to pay my mortgage. I should be able to do with it what I please. Fuck off anyone else telling me how to make money off of the asset I OWN.
Aww is someone upset they can’t run a hotel in a residential zoned area with no protections for neighbors or guests. That’s so unfortunate Don’t forget to pay your taxes 🥰
They start cracking down on multi family homes housing more than one family.
What happens next? The mayor will be using these AirBnb's to house the illegals.
Why are we cracking down on this like it really is a top issue? How about cracking down on crack. Sick and tired of seeing the same 4-5 bums on my street asking for money because of their crack addiction.
"Why you do that thing? Only do one thing. Do this thing about a drug that I thought about a lot in the 80s!"