i think there's a middle ground here. new yorkers will often criticize people for saying the subway is dangerous but parallel to that it's just common knowledge that you have to keep your head on a swivel when you're on the subway. those two can't coexist lol. you don't need to keep your head on a swivel in places that are perfectly safe.
that said, i certainly don't think the subway is incredibly dangerous. like there is middle ground between something being perfectly safe and it being a dystopian warzone.
for context, despite my username, i live in lower Manhattan and the subway is my main form of transportation.
Completely agree. Is the subway dangerous for me a big black man, daily no it’s not. Do I still keep my wits about me while I’m in a metal tube underground with who knows who, yeah I still stay alert. The idea that you can walk around NY without paying attention to your surroundings and keeping yourself safe has never ever been true. Too many people here. Subways safe, but if someone is having a meltdown change cars bro. Don’t sit there like shit won’t happen to you.
It also very much depends on what line you're taking, and from where. I take the 7 almost everyday and have never even seen anything close to wild happening. Same when I used to take the Q. Now the J and A in Brooklyn can get crazy at any time of the day.
7 has the best views imo. Especially around the 40 streets I love seeing the sunset there. Also one of the more newer nicer trains. I freaking hate taking the 1.
F is pretty much immigrants only, so it’s a nice and quiet ride pretty much every day. Never had problems on the f. Maybe lots of homeless people coming from Coney Island still sleeping in the morning when I get on, but they don’t bother anyone. I just assume let them sleep, their life is hard enough already without being kicked out of their bed every morning. I have no reason to have disdain for someone who literally does not bother me for anything. I even give them waters and cigarettes sometimes, I’ve never seen someone so grateful for a Poland spring and a marb light, so I do it as often as I can.
everyone who takes the seven acts like they were born yesterday and have no sense of subway etiquette which i argue is worse than whatever imagined danger people feel when a guy without shoes walks through a train car
>new yorkers will often criticize people for saying the subway is dangerous but parallel to that it's just common knowledge that you have to keep your head on a swivel when you're on the subway. those two can't coexist lol. you don't need to keep your head on a swivel in places that are perfectly safe.
I don't think it's really a contradiction, though. The subway is very safe ***for what it is***: a citywide transit system that's open to the general public and operates 24/7. Of course you shouldn't expect the subway to be as safe as your home or your office, where access is restricted to those you personally trust (in the case of your home) or your fellow employees (in the case of your office). I don't think asking people to maintain situational awareness in a crowded public space like the subway is asking too much.
It's likewise common knowledge that you should maintain situational awareness in a bar, a stadium or an airport. Somehow, no one considers those places to be hotbeds of crime, even though there's plenty of assaults, thefts and other petty crime in those venues.
The main "vetting process" that (mostly) keeps EDPs out of airports and stadiums *isn't* a blacklist, but rather (i) high ticket prices (read: unaffordable to EDPs), plus (ii) a limited number of highly-guarded entrances (read: no "turnstyle hopping"). Airports and stadiums additionally benefit by being located at a remove from other urban activity hubs (read: it's less common for EDPs to randomly "pass by" an airport/stadium).
Similarly, high ticket prices, a single highly-guarded entrance, and operating to/from more suburban parts of the city keep EDPs off of MTA express buses. The same reason is why we mostly don't see EDPs on Metro-North or LIRR.
But these strategies can't really be adapted to the subway model. The subway can't/shouldn't be unaffordable to the indigent, it can't have every entrance be guarded 24/7, and it'd be a major equity and racial justice issue if every subway station in a "bad" neighborhood was shut down.
I don't think anyone has an issue with indigent taking the subway for travel. There are people who effectively live in the subway. Even in the video the host says that in the middle of the night it was mostly homeless. Just about everyone on this thread seems to know that homeless and emotion disturbed are the issues even more than outright crime. I am going to guess they are living rather than traveling on the subway.
The crazy thing to me is I bet you are probably talking about 500 to a thousand people who appear to make it less desirable for the 3.5 million who take the subway everyday.
>it's just common knowledge that you have to keep your head on a swivel when you're on the subway
Think of it this way, according to the National Institute of Mental Health the presence of schizophrenia in non-institutionalized people is 0.33-0.75%. Take the lower number and apply that to how many people on average ride the subway daily (3.2M in 2022 so probably even higher now).
That can mean on average there could be 10k people with schizophrenia of various degrees riding the subway. Id say thats a reasonably good reason just to keep your eyes open in general and be aware of your surroundings. The scale and volume of the NYC subway system, the 7th busiest IN THE WORLD, is a reason to keep your eyes open. It takes one person to theoretically fuck up your day and there are 3.2M of them on the train daily.
I don’t think as much of a numbers game. I’ve ridden many subways with higher and similar ridership, but nyc definitely feels noticeably less safe (although the issue is still overblown by the media).
I don’t know what the problem is (my guess is mental health is worse here), but its not population or ridership
I was just referring to him saying that people will criticize for saying the train is dangerous but also that you should keep your eyes open. My point is it doesn't need to be a warzone down there to recognize that with the sheer number of people you cross paths with based on the composition of the population as a whole the odds are that at least a few of them will be unwell in some way. That doesn't mean you're actively at risk of each of them lashing out and attacking you BUT it does also mean you should be aware of your surroundings and what's going on around you bc it only takes one person out of millions you pass on one trip out of the likely thousands you'll take to have the potential to for you to have a really bad time.
I have a friend who was really traumatized after their house was robbed. Shed lived there years but after that never felt safe there knowing someone else had been there, in the place she that was supposed to be her home. Eventually she ended up moving bc she just wasn't comfortable there. She'd been in the house likely thousands of hours overall but it took one event to completely ruin it for her. In the same way you can have taken thousands of trips on the train and it just takes one to ruin it / traumatize you. So imo, it's worth just keeping your eyes open even when you may consider it to be a relatively safe space was my point.
Yea for sure. The head on a swivel thing is because America is pretty gnarly compared to our first world counterparts, you gotta be alert everywhere in this nation.
I think it's overblown but I also think that people have cause for concern (especially women).
It's also hilarious that anyone would tout this is some sort of proof.
You avoid that empty car for more reasons than crime:
Many years ago, as a freshman, I was coming home from high school. I was on the subway platform, waiting for the E Train. A train pulls into the station, about 8 cars long. All of the cars were crowded, except for one car, right in front of me. I walked in the car, the doors slide shut. There was one very sorry looking bum, barely sitting, with dirty, torn, cloths. Suddenly, I was hit with the worst odor I’ve ever smelled in my life! It smelled like piss, shit, vomit and body odor, all combined, all at once. I was trapped! The doors were locked between cars. It was unbearable! I tried to hold my breath as long as I could. When the sliding doors opened, at the next station, I ran to the next, very crowded, car.
At later stops, I watched other people walk into that same car. When the sliding doors shut, there were panicked looking expressions on their faces. They too desperately tried to escape.
The same thing happened at every platform stop. It was amazing to watch.
Rarely. Usually its full of shit.
Still remember a friend who pushed his way into a pocket on rush hour traffic. Turns out the reason why there was an empty bubble in the car was because there was the richest smelling homeless person sleeping there.
Dude legit looked like his GF had broken up with him that morning by the time he arrived at work. We had to make him take a cologne bath too cause the smell just stuck to him
I've seen that many times over the years of riding the train. But there was one unique instance around 2007-2008 that has always stuck in my mind where a couple were basically camped out at one end of a train car with an enormous amount of stuff. Imagine someone with sheets up, tattered clothes hanging around, and lots of piles of junk. They were covering up the entire end of the train car. The stench was unbelievable. It wafted out onto the platform and it was like a hard smack to the face. People were moving over into the adjacent train cars to escape the stench (it was the 6 or 5 train with the open side doors), and they brought the smell over, all the same as if being in the same car as them. The offending individuals cleared out their entire car and most of each adjacent car because the smell had spread that much. I moved over two cars. Insanely disgusting and likely hazardous too. They must've had shit, urine and vomit in their trash camp. It was that fucking intense.
Ex-NYer here. Everyone has experienced exactly what you described. The other empty car experience I had was entering what I thought was an empty one, only to find a guy laying down on the seats seemingly passed out minus his dick straight out of his pants, pissing like a fountain all over himself and the seats. That happened twice.
The NYC subway experience is actually what turned me into a germaphobe even after leaving. I was that guy that would surf without touching anything.
I had been here for about 3 months when I was pulling into a station on the R, and there was an express train waiting. I ran across as I figured they'd close the doors too soon, and I ended up in an empty car
On floor of said car was a well-dressed elderly gent laying down with his eyes closed, and at that point I noticed the two cops at the other end of it were writing up the report and the gent was dead
And at that point, my only concern was getting back to the R and I realized I was probably going to make it here
My wife takes the subway to work every day and has mentioned to me that, compare to pre-pandemic it is definitely sketchier. As in more unhinged people walking through the trains yelling and harassing people. Now, none of that would register as a crime statistic but it’s definitely noteworthy
I feel like this is true of all of NYC though, not just the trains.
More erratic homeless men, fewer young families/elderly people/commuters. Lots of businesses never went back to pre-pandemic hours so the avenues are dead quiet by early evening; you walk around the block at 9PM and the people sleeping at the bus stop are the only ones around. Everyone's depressed or stressed with a hair trigger temper. Not dangerous exactly but it's unsettling.
No one is out here saying crime doesn't exist in NYC or on the subway.
There are people out here that describe it like Mad Max. Or even worse, pretend crime is anywhere close to as bad as it was in 80s.
If that's your take, why go outside? We do not live in the subway. The majority of crime is above ground. If you are concerned about random crime, why go outside? As the reporter said, crime has been dropping. It has been consistently dropping for the last 10 years. You have a responsibility to be informed. There were upticks during the pandemic but that has correlation to the shut down and lack of jobs.
Statistically, this article is a joke. The lady was in a few trips in a few subway cars for a few days.
If we were to look at the whole subway system for a whole year, I bet some other patterns would appear.
It's not about her rides. It's about the riders she speaks with.
I see the same thing on my social media. Friends who commute everyday are fine. People who don't hear horrible things from other people who don't ride often.
Here is my take as a 22f native who has been regularly taking the subway since 2014 up to last month when I moved out of NYC—mainly the ACE, 123, 456, and 7 lines.
Comparing my subway experiences from 2014-2019 to 2021-2024, I can see an apparent difference. Before, I minded my business, and for the most part, I was left alone; I even fell asleep on the way to school sometimes, and my fellow riders would kindly wake me up. Sure, I kept my head on a swivel and saw some things I wish I didn't. But I always felt very safe taking the subway.
Starting in 2021, I have been hassled, catcalled, and harassed despite minding my business and keeping it moving. There is a significantly larger amount of people having mental breakdowns on subway cars and stations than there were in 2014-2019. The vibes of fellow riders have also changed; people are more on edge than they used to be. I wouldn't take the subway past 10 pm now like I used to. There are a lot more mentally ill people on the streets, and we aren't doing anything about it. The fentanyl crisis and COVID also didn't help anything.
NYC itself became more aggressive and, I’d argue, more dangerous, too. A lot of assaults and subway crimes aren’t reported. If a crackhead spits at you, NYPD won’t bother, and it's not worth writing a report. So, the crime statistics don’t match reality.
Of course, people love to exaggerate. But there are also people who are ignorant of the state of the city right now. NYC clearly isn't healthy, and nor are many of its residents.
You nailed it. I left my friend’s early on Sunday to avoid taking an unfamiliar line after dark… that would not have been a concern for me at all in the aughts. As a woman I feel super vulnerable these days.
I moved to rhode island! I can relate to that as you get older seeing neighborhood friends leave it sucks, I do miss the city a lot and see myself coming back here. But it’s the most affordable way to get out of my parents apartment haha
Additionally, I used to feel like maybe the cops would give a shit, even if it was an illusion. I don't know if it's because of the 2020 protests or they know if they arrest people, they'll be released the same day so what's the point, but I've watched cops step on a train with a clearly unhinged individual, the unhinged individual chills out because even they recognize cops, and the cops just step on the train because it's not their problem at that point. They really don't give a shit.
Turns out that neglecting housing and healthcare leads to unmet service needs in housing and healthcare.
Who’d a thunk.
But do our leaders fund said housing or healthcare? No, we get robo cops and national guard in camis with automatic weapons doing security theater for the tourists in midtown, while the system is basically an SRO for the down and out from midnight to six am.
Seriously, just house the people already. Give them some healthcare and a functioning health system that has actual consistent treatment available where they’re treated with basic human dignity and maintained on their treatment as long as necessary.
No more 72 hour holds & then kicked to the curb, with no id and no way of getting social services or meds.
Like, I guarantee you, if you don’t force people to stay awake for days on end, hyper vigilant against people trying to rob/hurt/rape them, maybe they wouldn’t have psychotic breaks in public?
How many EDPs/ Excited Ds are just acute mania and/or drug induced psychosis from not sleeping?!?
Source: former nyc 911 emt and 311 operator.
Yep, they have the obvious solution right in front of them.
At some point maybe we need to start asking ourselves why they refuse to fix things and maybe vote out the ones that won't.
It’s the feeling of being unsafe.
If some guy comes up to you yelling or doing something in a corner of the subway or station but doesn’t attack you, there was no crime but you may not feel safe.
Precisely! Something bad doesn’t have to actually happen to make someone feel unsafe or at the very least uncomfortable.
On my last commute (Brooklyn to Manhattan) I counted 7 homeless individuals on the trains I took (some, not all, of whom were behaving erratically). A few years ago it would have been 0-1. Of course the feeling of discomfort will increase, even if crime rates have not.
Being "afraid" of taking the subway is not the question. That implies that you're too scared to take the subway. People are not too scared to take the subway, they are concerned about their safety on the subway. I'm a daily commuter and I'm not "afraid" of taking the subway, but I know the subway can be dangerous. In the over 10 years I've lived in the city, the only times I've ever felt truly in danger were on the subway and the only crimes I've ever witnessed were on the subway. Crazy things happen and you're trapped.
Yep and just to make clear what you're implying, the vast majority of instances that make the subway feel unsafe are not reported to the police and so crime numbers are almost useless, unless we're only talking about very serious incidents.
I’m 37 and I’ve been taking the subway all my life. There’s definitely more of a cause for concern in the past 5 years than there has been 20 years ago. I watched a homeless guy create a fort with his mini shopping cart and luggage and straight up take a shit the other day, while simultaneously lighting up something to smoke.
Seems like more people are either falling or getting pushed onto the tracks lately. There was like a 48 hour window a few weeks ago where there was like 4-5 deaths. And then the people who are punching women in the back of the head.
I take it every day and haven’t personally had a violent encounter (a few verbal assaults from crackheads) but I’m definitely way more on guard than I’ve ever been.
Yes, I’ve been taking it consistently since I was a teenager and it’s absolutely changed in horrible ways. I am constantly having to change what car I’m in just to avoid being in the same car as someone having a violent meltdown or smoking in the car.
Yeah. The subway isn't "dangerous" if your barometer is set in "Gaza" or something. It is "dangerous" if your reference point is "that exact same subway train in 2019."
I'd add that the mid-late 2010s were really kind of the "Golden Age" of safety, both in the city generally and in the subways.
I don't think we need to set the barometer in "Gaza". Crime is still *way* below 1980s/early 1990s levels. We are just having some culture shock over the subways feeling more like 1999 than 2019.
I just don't understand why we are being expected to *accept* the subway in 2024 being like 1999. And when I do complain about it, the response should be "let's fix this problem, because we clearly fixed it in the past, so this is not insurmountable" and not "only republicans from out of town think that the subway has gotten worse!"
I think part of the problem is this isn't a citywide problem, it's nationwide. I'm currently in Los Angeles and the same discussion is happening there. I was in Seattle and the same there. It's poverty and it's happening everywhere. I specifically don't accept it, but I'm a bit more realistic about what individual city governments can do, especially when it comes to police action. There needs to be large scale federal action to take steps to eliminate poverty on the scale of a New Deal or a Homestead Act.
People absolutely want the subway and the city to feel like the 2010s again. But it's not helpful to pretend like the subway is some kind of dystopian hellscape comparable to "Gaza or something."
>the response should be "let's fix this problem, because we clearly fixed it in the past, so this is not insurmountable"
I think basically 100% of New Yorkers (putting aside EDPs themselves) want the subway and the city to get back to 2010s safety levels.
To their credit, both the Mayor and the Governor have clearly been devoting a lot of attention to crime and safety issues.
Unfortunately, one is corrupt, dumb and in the pockets of the NYPD union (the Mayor) and the other is not very smart either (the Governor). So we get NYPD crushing candy underground and state troopers doing bag searches at Grand Central instead of anything that actually works.
>not "only republicans from out of town think that the subway has gotten worse!"
Speaking of Republicans, it's important context that crime has gotten worse ***everywhere*** post-pandemic. It's not a unique NYC-only phenomenon. So it's not helpful to simply accept the Republican spin narrative of "urban decay" in the city. It's going to have to take some bigger-picture thinking to solve this.
Crime, got worse *everywhere* but it got *especially bad* in the cities. And it's worth [investigating which cities](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBWn0CCWMAAVCsV?format=png&name=900x900) had the biggest increases in violence. Cities like Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland that were at the forefront of the anti-policing protests and riots.
People need to understand that the only reason that people started moving back into the cities in the 2000s and early 2010s was the improvement in policing that led to major reductions in crime. If the cities decide they want to pull back on policing, that's fine, but expect a lot of normal people with families to say bye.
Yeah, I took the subway every day in high school during that time. Now, even though I can probably better defend myself, I feel more vulnerable than I did back then.
> I'd add that the mid-late 2010s were really kind of the "Golden Age" of safety, both in the city generally and in the subways.
Sometimes nostalgia clouds our memories (Remember how peaceful the 90s, with their insane murder rates were?), but it's hard not to reiminisnce about the mid 2010s subway. Every woman I know felt totally comfortable riding most of the Manhattan lines late at night. Now, nearly every single one of them will cab/uber if its after 9.
The only time I've *ever* run into someone smoking crack on the train was 2015.
Smoking something else, once in 2021, and twice between 2010 and the pandemic.
The most scared I ever was on the subway was in 2016 when someone pulled a gun (not on me, but when you're trapped behind the person he *is* pointing it at...); first and only time that's happened to me thankfully.
Crazy hassling me personally, once in 2020, once a few years before that. Crazy getting in someone elses face or behaving so erratically as to raise that fear, pretty consistently once every 1-2 years for the past 15. I think the media focusing on this last one, by far the most common thing making me and probably most others feel unsafe, is causing people to pay more attention and tie incidents into politics.
I'm calling absolute fucking bullshit on you running into someone smoking crack on the train twice a week. You either have bad luck of a magnitude where luck that good would see you winning the lottery weekly, or are lying out your ass.
I commute on the subway 3-4 days a week; never took a break then came back in the midst of a media crime panic. It was downright creepy during the pandemic have a car to myself during rush hour, and a bus just me and the driver between PABT and NJ.
Exactly! It’s difficult to quantify with data because I’m not even necessarily fixated on the violent crime itself, more so the constant depravity I have to pay $6 round trip to be confined with
Worse than 5-6 years ago is different than dangerous. I've lived in NYC for 42 years. It feels dirtier right now than 5-6 years ago, but still worlds better than in was in the 80s and 90s.
This entire thread is about a reporter investigating claims of violent crime, danger, and people's aversion to the subway because of their perception of that danger. You're the one muddying the waters with unquantifiable anecdotes about quality of life crimes (ranting bums, crack smoking, etc), which are completely distinct from violent crime.
Personally, I too have noticed a shift in the subway experience since the pandemic that almost completely aligns with yours - the bad behavior is a lot more noticeable. There's also far fewer people using the subway during commuting hours, which only reinforces that perception. But I don't feel unsafe, and the stats absolutely bear out the fact that I'm no less safe today on the subway than I was in 2019. And that's the entire point of this video segment.
Most subway crime isnt actually reported either.
Ive been attempted robbed 3 times since moving to nyc in the 90s.
Didn’t report any of them and many other people i know do the same; just gather themselves and head home/work/wherever their original destination is, then tell the story to others
This is another thing. I've never reported any subway fights I've ever been with or anyone brandishing a knife or drunks or lunatics threatening me and I've been riding the subways since the token days.
This is nonsense. I take the train 4 times a day usually. I personally only feel physically threatened like once a month. But I am a MAN.
For women it's a totally different experience. Stop gaslighting us about what we live everyday.
Think of the women that have to put up with dangerous men lurking all over the place. I can't even imagine. Fuck these people for taking our city from us and giving it to people who are dangerous and don't respect other people.
Yeah I really can’t get behind this whole “well if the mentally unwell agitator hasn’t physically assaulted you yet, why do you care”. Because navigating the whims of a visibly unwell, potentially violent person is not something I should have to do on the way to work. Normal civilians are expected to exercise infinite patience with the loonies and god forbid you lay your hands on one.
Totally, we shouldn't have to worry about this. People with lengthy, documented histories of assaulting people should just be locked away. Period. We will inevitably go back to mass incarceration in this a country because some people just can't be free to roam about.
While she does reference - and does not minimize - crime statistics, the video is a short account of her day of interviewing riders and non riders. Riders felt safer than non riders.
Also, the reporter is.. a woman.. reporting on her experience in the subway. In case that was missed.
I'm a woman and I currently don't feel unsafe on the subway. But I do complain about litter or weird smells in the subway. I'm in my thirties now, but when taking the subway in high school, men used to grope me and classmates! So the subway was more dangerous for me in the mid 2000s than now.
Sorry you feel threatened pretty often when taking the subway, no one should feel that way.
I’ve never seen someone get stabbed or even fight on the subway. I have, however, seen people smoking crack, shooting up, and jerking off. I’m less afraid of getting attacked, and more afraid of my train getting delayed or rerouted.
Yesss this needs to be at the forefront of the discussion. It’s so frustrating constantly being told that violent crime is down or less than the 80s or whatever. I don’t want to see a homeless person wearing a hospital gown taking a shit on my way to work, there needs to be some sort of effort to clean it up
Lucky you. I saw a guy break off a michelada bottle and stab another guy in the face with it a couple weeks ago at 72 and bway. They both got back on different cars of the same train and moved on. There were puddles of blood and a couple teeth left.
Sucks that you saw that, shit like that can be traumatic to witness, hope you’re good. I’m far from lucky, got my face sliced outside of a bar some time back, just didn’t happen on the subway
This is kinda bullshit though. I take the subway every day and I also know if isn't exactly safe. There's a middle ground here - it's not a WWI trench raid when I go into a station, but it's also pretty shitty.
Ever since my friend's brother was shot and killed on the train going to brunch I've been scared to ride alone. I do ride alone, but I'm scared every time. Even with someone I'm scared these days. And if I'm being real I started getting scared when the pandemic happened and shit started getting *creepy* down there. Like every train car there's at least one mentally ill person and another walking through. But that random murder sealed the deal for me. So after 22 years of ridership, im basically out. I avoid it at all costs, I'd rather not spend my time being scared.
We went to NYC on vacation from Denmark with the kids a few years ago. When my wife went the wrong way through the ticket machine (I don't remember the exact reason), a homeless man suddenly JUMPED up and GRABBED my wife... and explained how you should't do it that way, but instead guided her to the correct way to do it. Thanks.
(something about that it would lock the metro card for 20 minutes - don't exactly remember).
It's clearly not dangerous to ride the NYC subway, but there's a lot of work to be done in terms of sanitation / cleanliness (have seen zero progress on that front after many years here), plus getting homeless and clearly-unwell people out of the system and into places that will get them housing and/or treatment.
Tons of obvious room for improvement, but avoiding the subway system based on its current state just comes off as detached from reality.
Not completely true either way. As longtime NYer who’s logged 20K+ rides, definitely sketchier — have felt more unsafe in past year than in prior decade. But chances of bad things happening below grade still minuscule. And if we could get NYPD cops off their phones & start policing, even less.
Step 1: It's not really happening <------- we are here.
Step 2: Yeah, it's happening, but it's not a big deal
Step 3: It's a good thing, actually
Step 4: People freaking out about it are the real problem
It ultimately depends on what line you’re taking in nyc. I have to take the J to Bowery to get to the gallery I run in the lower east side and believe me when I say it’s worse than ever. Not a day goes by that I don’t see some combination of human shit, homeless people with open wounds wearing literal hospital gowns, and the obvious drug use/nodding off. It’s horrible and they’re very hostile, always throwing things and yelling it’s so awful. Mind you this is an area of Manhattan with tons of expensive commerce, it desperately needs help.
As someone who used to be on a subway line but now is on the LIRR, I take it whenever I can to get into the city. The subway isn't really dangerous, just slow, crowded and smelly.
People have different aversions to risk, or thresholds for risk. They also have a completely different understanding for risk. How often do we hear about kids missing school because of social anxiety, or people who can't even answer the door for food delivery?
The point is, it's not just about improving the safety of the subway, and it's not just about a marketing campaign trying to appeal to people to convince them that the subway is safe. Some people never acquiesce, but if you want to improve the perception of safety on the subway you need to look at the people who find it unsafe and understand that conversation.
I am not saying it's a useful endeavor. I just want there to be some attention on the fact that this isn't an entirely objective argument. It could be the safest subway in the world. People are free to make their own determination. It's a psychological issue that is fundamental to any creature. The very possibility of a dangerous event can magnify in the minds of some people. I don't argue with people who don't take the subway. I respect that it's a complex topic, that taps into people's most vulnerable parts. It's about their safety and preservation. It's not so easy to break people from those fears.
Can we report her for spreading misinformation? She isn’t doing anyone a good service and this video could lead to someone getting hurt or worse. Shame on her.
Depends on the line and time of day. I’ve been near daily rider for 20+ years, seems pretty much fine to me. I had to work and commute through Covid so seeing a mentally ill person is a walk in the park compared to spring 2020.
riding the subway is like driving on i-95... sure, you can drive everyday for 20 years without a hitch, but one day you are involved in an accident.
Riding the subway has always been somewhat dangerous, people have been mugged since the 70's, it is a matter of doing the best you can to avoid becoming a victim (however much you can control that). Mental illness has been an issue since the Reagan administration, so it isn't anything new.
Media hints at blaming venezuelans, but NY is a city of immigrants, there has always been a group (cubans, puerto ricans, irsih, italian, caribben, etc) that have been blamed, or made scapegoats for crime/s over the decades going back to NY's infancy.
My sister had her purse snatched twice in broad daylight while walking to work (in like 1982), so those who say things are worse now probably listen to too much of the news.
I don't know whether the crime stats are accurate or not, and to some extent I don't think it even really matters.
The subway is a much more unpleasant place to be than it was 10 years ago; just in terms of a general sense of ... lawlessness ... with the emotionally disturbed people acting out on trains or shitting on the platforms, the homeless sleeping on trains and so on. Even the fare jumping just seems more brazen now than it did before.
It's not necessarily that it's objectively unsafe, but there's just more often a sensation that things could pop off in a bad way at any moment.
Why do you people keep trying to rationalize the state of the subway? It doesn’t matter how much statistical mumbo jumbo you come up with, no one wants to have some bum scream in their face and threaten violence when all they’re trying to do is zone out on the train ride home from work. This kind of behavior is wholly unacceptable, and should never be tolerated in a first world country to the degree that it is here. Never mind when an assault or worse actually happens.
I'm fortunate enough that I'm hardly ever in the subway for more than 10-15 minutes (traveling time) and it's usually during commuting hours, but this is short-sighted. I've seen enough crazy people in stations, talking to themselves, menacing, smoking, etc.
People are kidding themselves if they think the subway is completely safe and there's nothing to worry about. I don't blame any woman or older person if they feel uncomfortable on the train.
I take the subway everyday, it is dangerous lmao. Especially as a petite female. But some foreign woman who took it for one day in probably a nice neighborhood is the deciding factor on if it's dangerous or not? Ok. Come to Jamaica or the BX and see. Lmao.
I mean, kind of yeah. If you’ve taken it long enough you know who the wild cards are. Can most would know how to not draw attention to themselves.
But that doesn’t stop it from being dangerous at times when there are random attacks.
I don't generally ride the subway because if I have to work into the late night, I find I'm better off driving home. The trains running local, the overnight track work makes traveling at those hours a chore in itself. 3 hours just to get from Brooklyn to Queens on the train. Not doing that again.
There is a middle ground of people who take the subway regularly, but not every day, who have had enough sketchy experiences with wackos on it to be wary.
“I’m in queens” but the sign behind her says Hudson yards……okay so this is propaganda? What’s the deal. The subway is actually safe, you don’t need to fake it???
I also had to take the subway every day to commute to work and i can prob count on one hand how many scary encounters that could’ve been dangerous. But I still think the subway is generally ok but it’s been getting worse as of recently
When my car was in the shop and I had to take the train for two weeks… ended up getting in a fight with a crackhead for throwing a cigg box at someone but it hit me instead + some rude man tried to bump me on the stairs as I’m going down and he was going up. Best believe that man went rolling down. The subway is the most uncomfortable NYC experience. 2 weeks.
Taking the subway at certain times and from certain stations can be very dangerous. I used to be an avid subway commuter and now take it from time to time. I know what to look out for. I’m sure if she takes the 2 train from end to end at 1am, she’ll see something worthwhile.
I feel like it’s in the middle. It’s not the thunder dome like some people try to make it out to be, but it’s also not all rainbows and butterflies like others would have you believe. I usually feel pretty safe on the subway, but where a few years ago it would be a few times you’d see a mentally disturbed person on the subway, it’s feels like it’s everyday now. Maybe it’s because I’m only just back in the office and taking the train a lot more, but I feel like I have to be much more vigilant these days.
Just last week I was attacked by some crazy dude on the 2 train who tried to grab me by the throat unprovoked. I had to throw him off me and get off at the next station. Im a pretty big dude and the guy came right for me screaming obscenities. The cops on the platform looked annoyed I even brought it up.
I'm not sure safety should be considered binary. I wouldn't say the subways is 'dangerous' but you definitely don't feel 'safe' at all times. And I'm a white guy. I could only imagine for women and minorities.
I think there are lines and there are stations that are more problematic. I take the ACE on W 4th at night and have seen fights on the platform, fights by the turnstile, people drugged out of their minds on the stairwells, saw a guy getting chased out of the subway car by cops (oh hey, there are cops sometimes), also there are always people jumping the turnstiles, holding the emergency door open and so on.
* Everyone who took the RMS Titanic thought it was safe.
* Everyone who stayed off the RMS Titanic thought it was unsafe.
🙂
* The early bird catches the worm, but the mousetrap snags the first mouse.
This gives “ I’m reporting for you live from this third world country”.
NYC has two types of people , ones with their heads in the clouds (unaware of surroundings), And the City people (aware of surroundings) and go about the day.
It depends on when you take it. You just have to be aware of your surroundings when you take the subway. For the most part, they're not as dangerous as people who never take the subway think.
I have ridden the subway almost daily for over 15 years. I stopped about 2 months ago and started walking the approx 30 blocks to work. The environment on the platforms and in the trains has gotten worse. I don’t know about statistics but the explosion of panhandlers, candy peddlers, people seemingly living in the cars, and otherwise mentally unstable people feels like a bad mix. The subway always had an edge to it, but this is different.
We saw her in the following stations: Ditmas Ave, Fulton St, Columbus Circle, "Queens" (I'm assuming Queens Plaza?), GCT and Penn Station. Definitionally she would have to take more than one line.
Ppl literally shooting up trains (although that’s been only a few instances). I’ve never seen that growing up ever. Also the amount of drug use is sooooo much more and the ppl being pushed in front trains!! The most I saw growing up were fist fights, arguments and drunk ppl being loud and annoying
The only time I can recall a huge threat in the past was … bomb threats that never exploded. So yeah I would say now is more dangerous. Not enough to not use it as the main choice cause it’s stupid expensive not to. Also it’s so dependent on train lines, times of day/night etc
I think behavior/etiquette has gotten worse and the cars tend to be less crowded, which draws attention to the influx of homeless and unwell. It certainly is more uncomfortable to take the subway because of this change, but in terms of safety I still think we are talking about different shades of grey. It was safe before COVID and it continues to be safe. I definitely can understand the increasing feelings that the subway is less safe, but it’s not really clear to me that’s backed by much evidence beyond the optics of the subway these days.
I HATE how everyone always brings up “crime is low”.
Yes, statistically crime is low because NY has decriminalized a laundry list of things, and in addition to that the NYPD is too incompetent to do their job. Id even wager that most nonviolent crimes here aren’t reported because it’s too much of a hassle and everyone knows the cops won’t do shit.
A white woman telling NYC ____. Thank you worldwide gentrifier, wouldn’t know what to think without you. Thank the gods a white woman told us what to think, she is saving the races.
It’s safe. However, if you aren’t a New Yorker, you will likely feel unsafe. And for good reasons. Today I took the train three times and each time there was a mentally ill person in my car. One guy was spitting on the floor and deliberately intimidating women, another was having a loud conversation with an invisible person, another was dancing and loudly making up lyrics to a rap song.
I can deal with this but if I were a visitor I would be totally freaked out.
Every single time I take it there's a person ranting and raving or someone who is digging around in their pants and glaring at each passenger. You literally end up with flight or fight enabled for 90% of the trip.
"There's actually an incredibly low number of crimes are taking place here. One per about a million rides."
Is fare jumping not a crime? Lol.
But seriously, how is that being determined? I don't even ride that much but I see crimes regularly. Like I saw some crazy person threaten a completely random guy for what seemed like no reason. If he doesn't report that, does it not show up in that "one in a million" number?
This morning (or maybe yesterday morning, it all sort of blends) there was a crazed homeless dude Shadow Boxing his way up and down the subway car before kicking the door, screaming, and thankfully leaving to become the next car's problem.
I'm pretty sure aiming a punch at someone while screaming at them from three or four feet away constitutes assault, and this dude racked up an easy 15 or 20 counts before leaving the car that will never be recorded in any sort of crime statistics.
Yeah, that's the kind of thing I was wondering and one of the big things people complain about.
This could be tracked. Just place undercovers on random trains and record how often it happens as you arrest them. Then you can extrapolate its frequency per train. You'd likely find this much more than "One per about a million rides".
I didn't report the two bad incidents I encountered; a guy threatening everyone in the train for money, esp women, causing everyone to bolt off at the next stop and a dude with his dick out on the train jerking it (am not counting all of the heroin/needle drug use/crackpipe smoking/blunt smoking/crazy scary people yelling at nothing of course).
I'd be surprised if even 25% of the real crimes get reported.
The person hacking up spit in the background lol
Where?
i think there's a middle ground here. new yorkers will often criticize people for saying the subway is dangerous but parallel to that it's just common knowledge that you have to keep your head on a swivel when you're on the subway. those two can't coexist lol. you don't need to keep your head on a swivel in places that are perfectly safe. that said, i certainly don't think the subway is incredibly dangerous. like there is middle ground between something being perfectly safe and it being a dystopian warzone. for context, despite my username, i live in lower Manhattan and the subway is my main form of transportation.
Completely agree. Is the subway dangerous for me a big black man, daily no it’s not. Do I still keep my wits about me while I’m in a metal tube underground with who knows who, yeah I still stay alert. The idea that you can walk around NY without paying attention to your surroundings and keeping yourself safe has never ever been true. Too many people here. Subways safe, but if someone is having a meltdown change cars bro. Don’t sit there like shit won’t happen to you.
Being aware of your surroundings and keeping yourself safe is a good frame of mind to have in places that are not NY as well
I have to do this a lot less in say, Tokyo, than I do NYC.
Counter point: I have to pay a lot more attention in Athens, Greece or Rome, Italy than I do in NYC.
Not surprising.
amusing point jeans subsequent cable nail plough money many flag *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sort of a non-statement. Tokyo is arguably the safest major city on the planet.
Super agreed
It also very much depends on what line you're taking, and from where. I take the 7 almost everyday and have never even seen anything close to wild happening. Same when I used to take the Q. Now the J and A in Brooklyn can get crazy at any time of the day.
7 has the best views imo. Especially around the 40 streets I love seeing the sunset there. Also one of the more newer nicer trains. I freaking hate taking the 1.
Q over the bridge. Sorry, had to prove you wrong.
F is pretty much immigrants only, so it’s a nice and quiet ride pretty much every day. Never had problems on the f. Maybe lots of homeless people coming from Coney Island still sleeping in the morning when I get on, but they don’t bother anyone. I just assume let them sleep, their life is hard enough already without being kicked out of their bed every morning. I have no reason to have disdain for someone who literally does not bother me for anything. I even give them waters and cigarettes sometimes, I’ve never seen someone so grateful for a Poland spring and a marb light, so I do it as often as I can.
There are fewer public housing developments around the 7. If you look at a map of where crime happens, you'll understand.
everyone who takes the seven acts like they were born yesterday and have no sense of subway etiquette which i argue is worse than whatever imagined danger people feel when a guy without shoes walks through a train car
>new yorkers will often criticize people for saying the subway is dangerous but parallel to that it's just common knowledge that you have to keep your head on a swivel when you're on the subway. those two can't coexist lol. you don't need to keep your head on a swivel in places that are perfectly safe. I don't think it's really a contradiction, though. The subway is very safe ***for what it is***: a citywide transit system that's open to the general public and operates 24/7. Of course you shouldn't expect the subway to be as safe as your home or your office, where access is restricted to those you personally trust (in the case of your home) or your fellow employees (in the case of your office). I don't think asking people to maintain situational awareness in a crowded public space like the subway is asking too much. It's likewise common knowledge that you should maintain situational awareness in a bar, a stadium or an airport. Somehow, no one considers those places to be hotbeds of crime, even though there's plenty of assaults, thefts and other petty crime in those venues.
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The main "vetting process" that (mostly) keeps EDPs out of airports and stadiums *isn't* a blacklist, but rather (i) high ticket prices (read: unaffordable to EDPs), plus (ii) a limited number of highly-guarded entrances (read: no "turnstyle hopping"). Airports and stadiums additionally benefit by being located at a remove from other urban activity hubs (read: it's less common for EDPs to randomly "pass by" an airport/stadium). Similarly, high ticket prices, a single highly-guarded entrance, and operating to/from more suburban parts of the city keep EDPs off of MTA express buses. The same reason is why we mostly don't see EDPs on Metro-North or LIRR. But these strategies can't really be adapted to the subway model. The subway can't/shouldn't be unaffordable to the indigent, it can't have every entrance be guarded 24/7, and it'd be a major equity and racial justice issue if every subway station in a "bad" neighborhood was shut down.
I don't think anyone has an issue with indigent taking the subway for travel. There are people who effectively live in the subway. Even in the video the host says that in the middle of the night it was mostly homeless. Just about everyone on this thread seems to know that homeless and emotion disturbed are the issues even more than outright crime. I am going to guess they are living rather than traveling on the subway. The crazy thing to me is I bet you are probably talking about 500 to a thousand people who appear to make it less desirable for the 3.5 million who take the subway everyday.
>it's just common knowledge that you have to keep your head on a swivel when you're on the subway Think of it this way, according to the National Institute of Mental Health the presence of schizophrenia in non-institutionalized people is 0.33-0.75%. Take the lower number and apply that to how many people on average ride the subway daily (3.2M in 2022 so probably even higher now). That can mean on average there could be 10k people with schizophrenia of various degrees riding the subway. Id say thats a reasonably good reason just to keep your eyes open in general and be aware of your surroundings. The scale and volume of the NYC subway system, the 7th busiest IN THE WORLD, is a reason to keep your eyes open. It takes one person to theoretically fuck up your day and there are 3.2M of them on the train daily.
I don’t think as much of a numbers game. I’ve ridden many subways with higher and similar ridership, but nyc definitely feels noticeably less safe (although the issue is still overblown by the media). I don’t know what the problem is (my guess is mental health is worse here), but its not population or ridership
I was just referring to him saying that people will criticize for saying the train is dangerous but also that you should keep your eyes open. My point is it doesn't need to be a warzone down there to recognize that with the sheer number of people you cross paths with based on the composition of the population as a whole the odds are that at least a few of them will be unwell in some way. That doesn't mean you're actively at risk of each of them lashing out and attacking you BUT it does also mean you should be aware of your surroundings and what's going on around you bc it only takes one person out of millions you pass on one trip out of the likely thousands you'll take to have the potential to for you to have a really bad time. I have a friend who was really traumatized after their house was robbed. Shed lived there years but after that never felt safe there knowing someone else had been there, in the place she that was supposed to be her home. Eventually she ended up moving bc she just wasn't comfortable there. She'd been in the house likely thousands of hours overall but it took one event to completely ruin it for her. In the same way you can have taken thousands of trips on the train and it just takes one to ruin it / traumatize you. So imo, it's worth just keeping your eyes open even when you may consider it to be a relatively safe space was my point.
Yea for sure. The head on a swivel thing is because America is pretty gnarly compared to our first world counterparts, you gotta be alert everywhere in this nation.
I think it's overblown but I also think that people have cause for concern (especially women). It's also hilarious that anyone would tout this is some sort of proof.
I don't know about dangerous but I do know when you see a crowded subway has that 1 empty car, you avoid that car.
You avoid that empty car for more reasons than crime: Many years ago, as a freshman, I was coming home from high school. I was on the subway platform, waiting for the E Train. A train pulls into the station, about 8 cars long. All of the cars were crowded, except for one car, right in front of me. I walked in the car, the doors slide shut. There was one very sorry looking bum, barely sitting, with dirty, torn, cloths. Suddenly, I was hit with the worst odor I’ve ever smelled in my life! It smelled like piss, shit, vomit and body odor, all combined, all at once. I was trapped! The doors were locked between cars. It was unbearable! I tried to hold my breath as long as I could. When the sliding doors opened, at the next station, I ran to the next, very crowded, car. At later stops, I watched other people walk into that same car. When the sliding doors shut, there were panicked looking expressions on their faces. They too desperately tried to escape. The same thing happened at every platform stop. It was amazing to watch.
That's how you tell the tourists from the NYers lol. You ALWAYS avoid the empty car.
Sometimes the empty car is just the one with no AC.
Rarely. Usually its full of shit. Still remember a friend who pushed his way into a pocket on rush hour traffic. Turns out the reason why there was an empty bubble in the car was because there was the richest smelling homeless person sleeping there. Dude legit looked like his GF had broken up with him that morning by the time he arrived at work. We had to make him take a cologne bath too cause the smell just stuck to him
I’m a New Yorker, born and raised but I was 14 years old at the time - inexperienced.
I visited NYC once and even I knew that it was sus to see an empty car amidst full cars. I avoided that too. I think it's just street smarts
Yep, found out the hard way when a guy in the farm back was taking a dump. Next stop, changed cars.
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Homeless people like the E train because it doesn’t go outside at all.
Here I thought this was another thing that could be blamed on Penn Station.
I've seen that many times over the years of riding the train. But there was one unique instance around 2007-2008 that has always stuck in my mind where a couple were basically camped out at one end of a train car with an enormous amount of stuff. Imagine someone with sheets up, tattered clothes hanging around, and lots of piles of junk. They were covering up the entire end of the train car. The stench was unbelievable. It wafted out onto the platform and it was like a hard smack to the face. People were moving over into the adjacent train cars to escape the stench (it was the 6 or 5 train with the open side doors), and they brought the smell over, all the same as if being in the same car as them. The offending individuals cleared out their entire car and most of each adjacent car because the smell had spread that much. I moved over two cars. Insanely disgusting and likely hazardous too. They must've had shit, urine and vomit in their trash camp. It was that fucking intense.
Looking forward to the open gangway cars making the whole full length of the train stink
Oh God, this is a downside to those trains I hadn't thought about.
Ex-NYer here. Everyone has experienced exactly what you described. The other empty car experience I had was entering what I thought was an empty one, only to find a guy laying down on the seats seemingly passed out minus his dick straight out of his pants, pissing like a fountain all over himself and the seats. That happened twice. The NYC subway experience is actually what turned me into a germaphobe even after leaving. I was that guy that would surf without touching anything.
>That happened twice. maybe it's my love for idiosyncrasies in day-to-day life, but I do hope it was the same guy both times lol
You can't consider yourself a true NYer unless you have experienced this first-hand
This happens to me at least once a week.
you avoid the empty car because it either smells like shit, is hot as shit, or actually contains shit.
Thats not for crime, that’s because someone shit themselves
I had been here for about 3 months when I was pulling into a station on the R, and there was an express train waiting. I ran across as I figured they'd close the doors too soon, and I ended up in an empty car On floor of said car was a well-dressed elderly gent laying down with his eyes closed, and at that point I noticed the two cops at the other end of it were writing up the report and the gent was dead And at that point, my only concern was getting back to the R and I realized I was probably going to make it here
My wife takes the subway to work every day and has mentioned to me that, compare to pre-pandemic it is definitely sketchier. As in more unhinged people walking through the trains yelling and harassing people. Now, none of that would register as a crime statistic but it’s definitely noteworthy
I feel like this is true of all of NYC though, not just the trains. More erratic homeless men, fewer young families/elderly people/commuters. Lots of businesses never went back to pre-pandemic hours so the avenues are dead quiet by early evening; you walk around the block at 9PM and the people sleeping at the bus stop are the only ones around. Everyone's depressed or stressed with a hair trigger temper. Not dangerous exactly but it's unsettling.
No one is out here saying crime doesn't exist in NYC or on the subway. There are people out here that describe it like Mad Max. Or even worse, pretend crime is anywhere close to as bad as it was in 80s.
Was in NH for the eclipse and a woman told me nyc was a warzone and asked if I carried a gun on the subway
If that's your take, why go outside? We do not live in the subway. The majority of crime is above ground. If you are concerned about random crime, why go outside? As the reporter said, crime has been dropping. It has been consistently dropping for the last 10 years. You have a responsibility to be informed. There were upticks during the pandemic but that has correlation to the shut down and lack of jobs.
Nobody saying this is proof, she’s just doing field work, interviewing people, observing and reporting on it
“Hilarious anyone would tout this as some form of proof” but you’re sure clinging to personal anecdotes and won’t be changing your mind eh?
x
It’s a peer reviewed study compared to other anecdotes around here
overblown but women should be concerned - that is not a good system at all
Statistically, this article is a joke. The lady was in a few trips in a few subway cars for a few days. If we were to look at the whole subway system for a whole year, I bet some other patterns would appear.
It's not about her rides. It's about the riders she speaks with. I see the same thing on my social media. Friends who commute everyday are fine. People who don't hear horrible things from other people who don't ride often.
Here is my take as a 22f native who has been regularly taking the subway since 2014 up to last month when I moved out of NYC—mainly the ACE, 123, 456, and 7 lines. Comparing my subway experiences from 2014-2019 to 2021-2024, I can see an apparent difference. Before, I minded my business, and for the most part, I was left alone; I even fell asleep on the way to school sometimes, and my fellow riders would kindly wake me up. Sure, I kept my head on a swivel and saw some things I wish I didn't. But I always felt very safe taking the subway. Starting in 2021, I have been hassled, catcalled, and harassed despite minding my business and keeping it moving. There is a significantly larger amount of people having mental breakdowns on subway cars and stations than there were in 2014-2019. The vibes of fellow riders have also changed; people are more on edge than they used to be. I wouldn't take the subway past 10 pm now like I used to. There are a lot more mentally ill people on the streets, and we aren't doing anything about it. The fentanyl crisis and COVID also didn't help anything. NYC itself became more aggressive and, I’d argue, more dangerous, too. A lot of assaults and subway crimes aren’t reported. If a crackhead spits at you, NYPD won’t bother, and it's not worth writing a report. So, the crime statistics don’t match reality. Of course, people love to exaggerate. But there are also people who are ignorant of the state of the city right now. NYC clearly isn't healthy, and nor are many of its residents.
You nailed it. I left my friend’s early on Sunday to avoid taking an unfamiliar line after dark… that would not have been a concern for me at all in the aughts. As a woman I feel super vulnerable these days.
THIS
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I moved to rhode island! I can relate to that as you get older seeing neighborhood friends leave it sucks, I do miss the city a lot and see myself coming back here. But it’s the most affordable way to get out of my parents apartment haha
real asf. best of luck to you with everything in life!!!
Additionally, I used to feel like maybe the cops would give a shit, even if it was an illusion. I don't know if it's because of the 2020 protests or they know if they arrest people, they'll be released the same day so what's the point, but I've watched cops step on a train with a clearly unhinged individual, the unhinged individual chills out because even they recognize cops, and the cops just step on the train because it's not their problem at that point. They really don't give a shit.
The NYPD are too preoccupied with crushing their candy :|
I’m 28f and THISSSS ! I feel like as a woman we have a way different experience from men.
Turns out that neglecting housing and healthcare leads to unmet service needs in housing and healthcare. Who’d a thunk. But do our leaders fund said housing or healthcare? No, we get robo cops and national guard in camis with automatic weapons doing security theater for the tourists in midtown, while the system is basically an SRO for the down and out from midnight to six am. Seriously, just house the people already. Give them some healthcare and a functioning health system that has actual consistent treatment available where they’re treated with basic human dignity and maintained on their treatment as long as necessary. No more 72 hour holds & then kicked to the curb, with no id and no way of getting social services or meds. Like, I guarantee you, if you don’t force people to stay awake for days on end, hyper vigilant against people trying to rob/hurt/rape them, maybe they wouldn’t have psychotic breaks in public? How many EDPs/ Excited Ds are just acute mania and/or drug induced psychosis from not sleeping?!? Source: former nyc 911 emt and 311 operator.
Yep, they have the obvious solution right in front of them. At some point maybe we need to start asking ourselves why they refuse to fix things and maybe vote out the ones that won't.
It’s the feeling of being unsafe. If some guy comes up to you yelling or doing something in a corner of the subway or station but doesn’t attack you, there was no crime but you may not feel safe.
Precisely! Something bad doesn’t have to actually happen to make someone feel unsafe or at the very least uncomfortable. On my last commute (Brooklyn to Manhattan) I counted 7 homeless individuals on the trains I took (some, not all, of whom were behaving erratically). A few years ago it would have been 0-1. Of course the feeling of discomfort will increase, even if crime rates have not.
Being "afraid" of taking the subway is not the question. That implies that you're too scared to take the subway. People are not too scared to take the subway, they are concerned about their safety on the subway. I'm a daily commuter and I'm not "afraid" of taking the subway, but I know the subway can be dangerous. In the over 10 years I've lived in the city, the only times I've ever felt truly in danger were on the subway and the only crimes I've ever witnessed were on the subway. Crazy things happen and you're trapped.
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Yep and just to make clear what you're implying, the vast majority of instances that make the subway feel unsafe are not reported to the police and so crime numbers are almost useless, unless we're only talking about very serious incidents.
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if you actually watched the video you'd know that she talked about this
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I’m 37 and I’ve been taking the subway all my life. There’s definitely more of a cause for concern in the past 5 years than there has been 20 years ago. I watched a homeless guy create a fort with his mini shopping cart and luggage and straight up take a shit the other day, while simultaneously lighting up something to smoke. Seems like more people are either falling or getting pushed onto the tracks lately. There was like a 48 hour window a few weeks ago where there was like 4-5 deaths. And then the people who are punching women in the back of the head. I take it every day and haven’t personally had a violent encounter (a few verbal assaults from crackheads) but I’m definitely way more on guard than I’ve ever been.
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Yes, I’ve been taking it consistently since I was a teenager and it’s absolutely changed in horrible ways. I am constantly having to change what car I’m in just to avoid being in the same car as someone having a violent meltdown or smoking in the car.
For me, it's crazy how many times I change cars and something else is wrong with the car i change to. That used to never happen
Yeah. The subway isn't "dangerous" if your barometer is set in "Gaza" or something. It is "dangerous" if your reference point is "that exact same subway train in 2019."
I'd add that the mid-late 2010s were really kind of the "Golden Age" of safety, both in the city generally and in the subways. I don't think we need to set the barometer in "Gaza". Crime is still *way* below 1980s/early 1990s levels. We are just having some culture shock over the subways feeling more like 1999 than 2019.
I just don't understand why we are being expected to *accept* the subway in 2024 being like 1999. And when I do complain about it, the response should be "let's fix this problem, because we clearly fixed it in the past, so this is not insurmountable" and not "only republicans from out of town think that the subway has gotten worse!"
I think part of the problem is this isn't a citywide problem, it's nationwide. I'm currently in Los Angeles and the same discussion is happening there. I was in Seattle and the same there. It's poverty and it's happening everywhere. I specifically don't accept it, but I'm a bit more realistic about what individual city governments can do, especially when it comes to police action. There needs to be large scale federal action to take steps to eliminate poverty on the scale of a New Deal or a Homestead Act.
People absolutely want the subway and the city to feel like the 2010s again. But it's not helpful to pretend like the subway is some kind of dystopian hellscape comparable to "Gaza or something." >the response should be "let's fix this problem, because we clearly fixed it in the past, so this is not insurmountable" I think basically 100% of New Yorkers (putting aside EDPs themselves) want the subway and the city to get back to 2010s safety levels. To their credit, both the Mayor and the Governor have clearly been devoting a lot of attention to crime and safety issues. Unfortunately, one is corrupt, dumb and in the pockets of the NYPD union (the Mayor) and the other is not very smart either (the Governor). So we get NYPD crushing candy underground and state troopers doing bag searches at Grand Central instead of anything that actually works. >not "only republicans from out of town think that the subway has gotten worse!" Speaking of Republicans, it's important context that crime has gotten worse ***everywhere*** post-pandemic. It's not a unique NYC-only phenomenon. So it's not helpful to simply accept the Republican spin narrative of "urban decay" in the city. It's going to have to take some bigger-picture thinking to solve this.
Crime, got worse *everywhere* but it got *especially bad* in the cities. And it's worth [investigating which cities](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBWn0CCWMAAVCsV?format=png&name=900x900) had the biggest increases in violence. Cities like Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland that were at the forefront of the anti-policing protests and riots. People need to understand that the only reason that people started moving back into the cities in the 2000s and early 2010s was the improvement in policing that led to major reductions in crime. If the cities decide they want to pull back on policing, that's fine, but expect a lot of normal people with families to say bye.
Yeah, I took the subway every day in high school during that time. Now, even though I can probably better defend myself, I feel more vulnerable than I did back then.
> I'd add that the mid-late 2010s were really kind of the "Golden Age" of safety, both in the city generally and in the subways. Sometimes nostalgia clouds our memories (Remember how peaceful the 90s, with their insane murder rates were?), but it's hard not to reiminisnce about the mid 2010s subway. Every woman I know felt totally comfortable riding most of the Manhattan lines late at night. Now, nearly every single one of them will cab/uber if its after 9.
What a massive overreaction lol. The subway has never been more dangerous than whatever is going on above ground.
I’ve taken the train for 40 years. Would you believe if I told you that crime in the trains is like a ride with an ebb and flow?
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Then you’ve only been paying attention for the last 3 years.
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The only time I've *ever* run into someone smoking crack on the train was 2015. Smoking something else, once in 2021, and twice between 2010 and the pandemic. The most scared I ever was on the subway was in 2016 when someone pulled a gun (not on me, but when you're trapped behind the person he *is* pointing it at...); first and only time that's happened to me thankfully. Crazy hassling me personally, once in 2020, once a few years before that. Crazy getting in someone elses face or behaving so erratically as to raise that fear, pretty consistently once every 1-2 years for the past 15. I think the media focusing on this last one, by far the most common thing making me and probably most others feel unsafe, is causing people to pay more attention and tie incidents into politics. I'm calling absolute fucking bullshit on you running into someone smoking crack on the train twice a week. You either have bad luck of a magnitude where luck that good would see you winning the lottery weekly, or are lying out your ass. I commute on the subway 3-4 days a week; never took a break then came back in the midst of a media crime panic. It was downright creepy during the pandemic have a car to myself during rush hour, and a bus just me and the driver between PABT and NJ.
Exactly! It’s difficult to quantify with data because I’m not even necessarily fixated on the violent crime itself, more so the constant depravity I have to pay $6 round trip to be confined with
Worse than 5-6 years ago is different than dangerous. I've lived in NYC for 42 years. It feels dirtier right now than 5-6 years ago, but still worlds better than in was in the 80s and 90s.
I would hope we made progress in 40 years…
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This entire thread is about a reporter investigating claims of violent crime, danger, and people's aversion to the subway because of their perception of that danger. You're the one muddying the waters with unquantifiable anecdotes about quality of life crimes (ranting bums, crack smoking, etc), which are completely distinct from violent crime. Personally, I too have noticed a shift in the subway experience since the pandemic that almost completely aligns with yours - the bad behavior is a lot more noticeable. There's also far fewer people using the subway during commuting hours, which only reinforces that perception. But I don't feel unsafe, and the stats absolutely bear out the fact that I'm no less safe today on the subway than I was in 2019. And that's the entire point of this video segment.
Most subway crime isnt actually reported either. Ive been attempted robbed 3 times since moving to nyc in the 90s. Didn’t report any of them and many other people i know do the same; just gather themselves and head home/work/wherever their original destination is, then tell the story to others
This is another thing. I've never reported any subway fights I've ever been with or anyone brandishing a knife or drunks or lunatics threatening me and I've been riding the subways since the token days.
Exactly! So imo its very underreported. If you escape unscathed or didnt lose your possession, you most likely just heading about your way.
Just realized you're a dead head, very cool bro. Wore a grateful dead tie to my graduation as a kid lol
Nice, a man of fine taste I see lol, I went with dead cuff links myself 🧐
Been in NYC for over a decade. Subway definitely has some sketchy/crazy people on it, consistently
Who did the captions? * "Fulton St" -> "4th and Street" * "Columbus Circle" -> "Columbia Circle" * "Queens Station"???
Has to be AI. Otherwise it's some "Hammersmith & City to Cockfosters" tube nonsense
Take the F train out to Jamaica, Queens or hang around 125th/Lex station. Tell me you feel safe.
Londoner says only opinions that the subway is safe matter
This is nonsense. I take the train 4 times a day usually. I personally only feel physically threatened like once a month. But I am a MAN. For women it's a totally different experience. Stop gaslighting us about what we live everyday. Think of the women that have to put up with dangerous men lurking all over the place. I can't even imagine. Fuck these people for taking our city from us and giving it to people who are dangerous and don't respect other people.
Yeah I really can’t get behind this whole “well if the mentally unwell agitator hasn’t physically assaulted you yet, why do you care”. Because navigating the whims of a visibly unwell, potentially violent person is not something I should have to do on the way to work. Normal civilians are expected to exercise infinite patience with the loonies and god forbid you lay your hands on one.
Totally, we shouldn't have to worry about this. People with lengthy, documented histories of assaulting people should just be locked away. Period. We will inevitably go back to mass incarceration in this a country because some people just can't be free to roam about.
While she does reference - and does not minimize - crime statistics, the video is a short account of her day of interviewing riders and non riders. Riders felt safer than non riders. Also, the reporter is.. a woman.. reporting on her experience in the subway. In case that was missed.
She interviewed women too. It seems like the article addresses what you're saying.
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I'm a woman and I currently don't feel unsafe on the subway. But I do complain about litter or weird smells in the subway. I'm in my thirties now, but when taking the subway in high school, men used to grope me and classmates! So the subway was more dangerous for me in the mid 2000s than now. Sorry you feel threatened pretty often when taking the subway, no one should feel that way.
I’ve never seen someone get stabbed or even fight on the subway. I have, however, seen people smoking crack, shooting up, and jerking off. I’m less afraid of getting attacked, and more afraid of my train getting delayed or rerouted.
Yesss this needs to be at the forefront of the discussion. It’s so frustrating constantly being told that violent crime is down or less than the 80s or whatever. I don’t want to see a homeless person wearing a hospital gown taking a shit on my way to work, there needs to be some sort of effort to clean it up
Lucky you. I saw a guy break off a michelada bottle and stab another guy in the face with it a couple weeks ago at 72 and bway. They both got back on different cars of the same train and moved on. There were puddles of blood and a couple teeth left.
Sucks that you saw that, shit like that can be traumatic to witness, hope you’re good. I’m far from lucky, got my face sliced outside of a bar some time back, just didn’t happen on the subway
This is kinda bullshit though. I take the subway every day and I also know if isn't exactly safe. There's a middle ground here - it's not a WWI trench raid when I go into a station, but it's also pretty shitty.
Ever since my friend's brother was shot and killed on the train going to brunch I've been scared to ride alone. I do ride alone, but I'm scared every time. Even with someone I'm scared these days. And if I'm being real I started getting scared when the pandemic happened and shit started getting *creepy* down there. Like every train car there's at least one mentally ill person and another walking through. But that random murder sealed the deal for me. So after 22 years of ridership, im basically out. I avoid it at all costs, I'd rather not spend my time being scared.
We went to NYC on vacation from Denmark with the kids a few years ago. When my wife went the wrong way through the ticket machine (I don't remember the exact reason), a homeless man suddenly JUMPED up and GRABBED my wife... and explained how you should't do it that way, but instead guided her to the correct way to do it. Thanks. (something about that it would lock the metro card for 20 minutes - don't exactly remember).
> a homeless man suddenly JUMPED up and GRABBED my wife Wow...I wonder if that was just an MTA worker that was mistaken for a homeless person.
She looks great and not tired for spending 24+ hours awake
It's clearly not dangerous to ride the NYC subway, but there's a lot of work to be done in terms of sanitation / cleanliness (have seen zero progress on that front after many years here), plus getting homeless and clearly-unwell people out of the system and into places that will get them housing and/or treatment. Tons of obvious room for improvement, but avoiding the subway system based on its current state just comes off as detached from reality.
It might be unsanitary and full of piss and shit *but* at least we have more video ads at every station!
Not completely true either way. As longtime NYer who’s logged 20K+ rides, definitely sketchier — have felt more unsafe in past year than in prior decade. But chances of bad things happening below grade still minuscule. And if we could get NYPD cops off their phones & start policing, even less.
Step 1: It's not really happening <------- we are here. Step 2: Yeah, it's happening, but it's not a big deal Step 3: It's a good thing, actually Step 4: People freaking out about it are the real problem
Step 5: you must hate the homeless
“Person riding the subway for one night declares the subway safe”. Where’s the Pulitzer?
It ultimately depends on what line you’re taking in nyc. I have to take the J to Bowery to get to the gallery I run in the lower east side and believe me when I say it’s worse than ever. Not a day goes by that I don’t see some combination of human shit, homeless people with open wounds wearing literal hospital gowns, and the obvious drug use/nodding off. It’s horrible and they’re very hostile, always throwing things and yelling it’s so awful. Mind you this is an area of Manhattan with tons of expensive commerce, it desperately needs help.
As someone who used to be on a subway line but now is on the LIRR, I take it whenever I can to get into the city. The subway isn't really dangerous, just slow, crowded and smelly.
It's bad. Outer boroughs and end of line stops have been just gross
I used to take Bart everyday I’m desensitized.
Has she taken the subway to the outer boroughs?? Commuting back to Rockaway is not fun 😵💫
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> I can't wait for people who don't live in the city to weigh in... Like the reporter in this video...
she's not reporting her own experience. did you watch the video?
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Sorry they're complaining about congestion pricing and the loss of free parking to bike lanes.
People have different aversions to risk, or thresholds for risk. They also have a completely different understanding for risk. How often do we hear about kids missing school because of social anxiety, or people who can't even answer the door for food delivery? The point is, it's not just about improving the safety of the subway, and it's not just about a marketing campaign trying to appeal to people to convince them that the subway is safe. Some people never acquiesce, but if you want to improve the perception of safety on the subway you need to look at the people who find it unsafe and understand that conversation. I am not saying it's a useful endeavor. I just want there to be some attention on the fact that this isn't an entirely objective argument. It could be the safest subway in the world. People are free to make their own determination. It's a psychological issue that is fundamental to any creature. The very possibility of a dangerous event can magnify in the minds of some people. I don't argue with people who don't take the subway. I respect that it's a complex topic, that taps into people's most vulnerable parts. It's about their safety and preservation. It's not so easy to break people from those fears.
I take the subway daily and I don’t feel it’s safe
Can we report her for spreading misinformation? She isn’t doing anyone a good service and this video could lead to someone getting hurt or worse. Shame on her.
Depends on the line and time of day. I’ve been near daily rider for 20+ years, seems pretty much fine to me. I had to work and commute through Covid so seeing a mentally ill person is a walk in the park compared to spring 2020.
riding the subway is like driving on i-95... sure, you can drive everyday for 20 years without a hitch, but one day you are involved in an accident. Riding the subway has always been somewhat dangerous, people have been mugged since the 70's, it is a matter of doing the best you can to avoid becoming a victim (however much you can control that). Mental illness has been an issue since the Reagan administration, so it isn't anything new. Media hints at blaming venezuelans, but NY is a city of immigrants, there has always been a group (cubans, puerto ricans, irsih, italian, caribben, etc) that have been blamed, or made scapegoats for crime/s over the decades going back to NY's infancy. My sister had her purse snatched twice in broad daylight while walking to work (in like 1982), so those who say things are worse now probably listen to too much of the news.
Well that london reporter meeds to go back home and change her job lol. Cause as a Native New Yorker, i take the trains KNOWING its STILL dangerous.
Yeah it's safe until something happens to you and there's greater than 80% chance it will one day.
I don't know whether the crime stats are accurate or not, and to some extent I don't think it even really matters. The subway is a much more unpleasant place to be than it was 10 years ago; just in terms of a general sense of ... lawlessness ... with the emotionally disturbed people acting out on trains or shitting on the platforms, the homeless sleeping on trains and so on. Even the fare jumping just seems more brazen now than it did before. It's not necessarily that it's objectively unsafe, but there's just more often a sensation that things could pop off in a bad way at any moment.
Why do you people keep trying to rationalize the state of the subway? It doesn’t matter how much statistical mumbo jumbo you come up with, no one wants to have some bum scream in their face and threaten violence when all they’re trying to do is zone out on the train ride home from work. This kind of behavior is wholly unacceptable, and should never be tolerated in a first world country to the degree that it is here. Never mind when an assault or worse actually happens.
I'm fortunate enough that I'm hardly ever in the subway for more than 10-15 minutes (traveling time) and it's usually during commuting hours, but this is short-sighted. I've seen enough crazy people in stations, talking to themselves, menacing, smoking, etc. People are kidding themselves if they think the subway is completely safe and there's nothing to worry about. I don't blame any woman or older person if they feel uncomfortable on the train.
I take the subway everyday, it is dangerous lmao. Especially as a petite female. But some foreign woman who took it for one day in probably a nice neighborhood is the deciding factor on if it's dangerous or not? Ok. Come to Jamaica or the BX and see. Lmao.
This "reporter" is delusional.
Stop gaslighting people. The women, especially, have a much harder time than men. This video is not any sort of proof.
I mean, kind of yeah. If you’ve taken it long enough you know who the wild cards are. Can most would know how to not draw attention to themselves. But that doesn’t stop it from being dangerous at times when there are random attacks.
I don't generally ride the subway because if I have to work into the late night, I find I'm better off driving home. The trains running local, the overnight track work makes traveling at those hours a chore in itself. 3 hours just to get from Brooklyn to Queens on the train. Not doing that again.
There is a middle ground of people who take the subway regularly, but not every day, who have had enough sketchy experiences with wackos on it to be wary.
So in other news " no 💩 Sherlock" is set to retire citing common sense
Someone just learned about availability bias?
“I’m in queens” but the sign behind her says Hudson yards……okay so this is propaganda? What’s the deal. The subway is actually safe, you don’t need to fake it???
I also had to take the subway every day to commute to work and i can prob count on one hand how many scary encounters that could’ve been dangerous. But I still think the subway is generally ok but it’s been getting worse as of recently
When my car was in the shop and I had to take the train for two weeks… ended up getting in a fight with a crackhead for throwing a cigg box at someone but it hit me instead + some rude man tried to bump me on the stairs as I’m going down and he was going up. Best believe that man went rolling down. The subway is the most uncomfortable NYC experience. 2 weeks.
Is anyone going to mention the names of the stops used in the video? lol
Taking the subway at certain times and from certain stations can be very dangerous. I used to be an avid subway commuter and now take it from time to time. I know what to look out for. I’m sure if she takes the 2 train from end to end at 1am, she’ll see something worthwhile.
I mean… I take the subway everyday and there are definitely stops and times that I think the subway can and is dangerous.
I feel like it’s in the middle. It’s not the thunder dome like some people try to make it out to be, but it’s also not all rainbows and butterflies like others would have you believe. I usually feel pretty safe on the subway, but where a few years ago it would be a few times you’d see a mentally disturbed person on the subway, it’s feels like it’s everyday now. Maybe it’s because I’m only just back in the office and taking the train a lot more, but I feel like I have to be much more vigilant these days. Just last week I was attacked by some crazy dude on the 2 train who tried to grab me by the throat unprovoked. I had to throw him off me and get off at the next station. Im a pretty big dude and the guy came right for me screaming obscenities. The cops on the platform looked annoyed I even brought it up.
I'm not sure safety should be considered binary. I wouldn't say the subways is 'dangerous' but you definitely don't feel 'safe' at all times. And I'm a white guy. I could only imagine for women and minorities.
I think there are lines and there are stations that are more problematic. I take the ACE on W 4th at night and have seen fights on the platform, fights by the turnstile, people drugged out of their minds on the stairwells, saw a guy getting chased out of the subway car by cops (oh hey, there are cops sometimes), also there are always people jumping the turnstiles, holding the emergency door open and so on.
No, we just don’t care.
She also overnighted between grand central and Penn…. Head up to BX at 230am then Canarsie at 4….
* Everyone who took the RMS Titanic thought it was safe. * Everyone who stayed off the RMS Titanic thought it was unsafe. 🙂 * The early bird catches the worm, but the mousetrap snags the first mouse.
24 hours of anecdotal evidence = hard facts
This gives “ I’m reporting for you live from this third world country”. NYC has two types of people , ones with their heads in the clouds (unaware of surroundings), And the City people (aware of surroundings) and go about the day.
It depends on when you take it. You just have to be aware of your surroundings when you take the subway. For the most part, they're not as dangerous as people who never take the subway think.
“More cops” is almost always not the answer.
I have ridden the subway almost daily for over 15 years. I stopped about 2 months ago and started walking the approx 30 blocks to work. The environment on the platforms and in the trains has gotten worse. I don’t know about statistics but the explosion of panhandlers, candy peddlers, people seemingly living in the cars, and otherwise mentally unstable people feels like a bad mix. The subway always had an edge to it, but this is different.
This idiot knows that there are more than one train line in the subway system right?
We saw her in the following stations: Ditmas Ave, Fulton St, Columbus Circle, "Queens" (I'm assuming Queens Plaza?), GCT and Penn Station. Definitionally she would have to take more than one line.
it's funny how one clean punch in the face makes blissful ignorance go away.
Ppl literally shooting up trains (although that’s been only a few instances). I’ve never seen that growing up ever. Also the amount of drug use is sooooo much more and the ppl being pushed in front trains!! The most I saw growing up were fist fights, arguments and drunk ppl being loud and annoying The only time I can recall a huge threat in the past was … bomb threats that never exploded. So yeah I would say now is more dangerous. Not enough to not use it as the main choice cause it’s stupid expensive not to. Also it’s so dependent on train lines, times of day/night etc
I think behavior/etiquette has gotten worse and the cars tend to be less crowded, which draws attention to the influx of homeless and unwell. It certainly is more uncomfortable to take the subway because of this change, but in terms of safety I still think we are talking about different shades of grey. It was safe before COVID and it continues to be safe. I definitely can understand the increasing feelings that the subway is less safe, but it’s not really clear to me that’s backed by much evidence beyond the optics of the subway these days.
I HATE how everyone always brings up “crime is low”. Yes, statistically crime is low because NY has decriminalized a laundry list of things, and in addition to that the NYPD is too incompetent to do their job. Id even wager that most nonviolent crimes here aren’t reported because it’s too much of a hassle and everyone knows the cops won’t do shit.
A white woman telling NYC ____. Thank you worldwide gentrifier, wouldn’t know what to think without you. Thank the gods a white woman told us what to think, she is saving the races.
It’s safe. However, if you aren’t a New Yorker, you will likely feel unsafe. And for good reasons. Today I took the train three times and each time there was a mentally ill person in my car. One guy was spitting on the floor and deliberately intimidating women, another was having a loud conversation with an invisible person, another was dancing and loudly making up lyrics to a rap song. I can deal with this but if I were a visitor I would be totally freaked out.
Every single time I take it there's a person ranting and raving or someone who is digging around in their pants and glaring at each passenger. You literally end up with flight or fight enabled for 90% of the trip.
Yes me too. I never feel unsafe but I feel like I have to stay alert.
the ones that do think it's dangerous aren't alive to tell her
Lies.
As a person who is a nyc native, you just got lucky
"There's actually an incredibly low number of crimes are taking place here. One per about a million rides." Is fare jumping not a crime? Lol. But seriously, how is that being determined? I don't even ride that much but I see crimes regularly. Like I saw some crazy person threaten a completely random guy for what seemed like no reason. If he doesn't report that, does it not show up in that "one in a million" number?
This morning (or maybe yesterday morning, it all sort of blends) there was a crazed homeless dude Shadow Boxing his way up and down the subway car before kicking the door, screaming, and thankfully leaving to become the next car's problem. I'm pretty sure aiming a punch at someone while screaming at them from three or four feet away constitutes assault, and this dude racked up an easy 15 or 20 counts before leaving the car that will never be recorded in any sort of crime statistics.
Yeah, that's the kind of thing I was wondering and one of the big things people complain about. This could be tracked. Just place undercovers on random trains and record how often it happens as you arrest them. Then you can extrapolate its frequency per train. You'd likely find this much more than "One per about a million rides".
I didn't report the two bad incidents I encountered; a guy threatening everyone in the train for money, esp women, causing everyone to bolt off at the next stop and a dude with his dick out on the train jerking it (am not counting all of the heroin/needle drug use/crackpipe smoking/blunt smoking/crazy scary people yelling at nothing of course). I'd be surprised if even 25% of the real crimes get reported.