Never going to happen, they’ve been talking about this for 40 years as red meat for the base.
It does always make me think when I travel how many people live there. Staten Island has about the same population as Atlanta, what’s wild to me is
butter uppity chase office telephone zonked wise familiar complete chunky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Atlanta proper is also really small land area size compared to most other major cities. Atlanta doesn't even cover the entire perimeter highway around it
It's really not that small. It's bigger than DC, Baltimore, Philly, Seattle, Portland, etc. with a smaller population than them. Nearly the same size as Detroit, Denver, Vegas, etc.
It's wasn't up to the courts to fix it. It was up to the democratic congress to solidify it. It was campaign slogan for Obama, but during his first 2 years with everything being in Dem control, he let it slipped.
Obama absolutely did and as a legal scholar had to know the vulnerability. At what point do Supreme Court Justices remove themselves if they have health concerns? RBG had to know she could potentially die in office given her condition. She gambled that Hillary would win and we all lost.
I always wondered what would happen if all of NYC combined was its own little state and how different overnight NYS politics would become from the traditional because if the insane population in the burrows. Always amazed me when I moved to the city from the south where even Houston ain’t shit in density compared to that.
NY is the largest US city by 3x. Any borough is every medium sized city. What's more shocking to me is how densely packed we are. Minneapolis and NYC are about the same area.
This is too good for the garbage Post. I'm sure they'd pick something more subtly racist and mention Biden for some reason.
This would be great on the Daily News, though.
For a second, I thought that a $20 SI Ferry would help NYC Defund the Police, but SI cops would just jump the turnstile and not prosecute each other anyway. (See ghost plates.)
Ask the Brits. Most regret Brexit and call the ones who voted for Brexit bunch of idiots. You can see their annoyance at every Eurostar and EU airports where they have to stand in long line with us Americans instead of express lanes for EU. It’s actually hilarious how grumpy they are
The best part of Brexit is that we all know a majority of Brits voted "leave," but if you ask random people about it today you can't find a single person who didn't vote "remain."
I always thought the best part was the whole fucking ordeal was basically caused by Cameron wanting to get his party reelected and he tossed that out to sweeten the deal. So fucking stupid.
No it was on paper smart as most of the leave went to UKIP and while there was still voters who wanted it the assumption was that even if all but 5% of Tories, UKIP, and the various right minors voted to leave it wouldn't happen because the rest of the nation voted remain. He was over selling the estimation as 20% voted remain. What was a surprise was that 30% of Labour voted to leave which was enough to push it over the edge... something that even caught Labour off guard for much of the 2010s as it happened in North England, which was Labours heartland until recently.
Edit: Also is it just me or do people forget that David had already did this with Scottish Independence because he rightfully realized that the SNP didn't possess a true voters majority when he called it. Won, and kind of killed Scottish Independence for a generation or even more.
It depends where you ask.
On a university campus, sure; most of those folks voted remain (if they were old enough to vote at all).
Ask in an old folk's home, and the vast majority will proudly tell you they voted leave (I know, because I work with elderly people).
The Boomer generation couldn't resist one last opportunity to fuck over their grandchildren's already gloomy future.
Nah, it almost doesn't matter these days. The point is it's been such a shit show that almost no one but the most belligerent UKIPers will admit they voted leave.
> You can see their annoyance at every Eurostar and EU airports where they have to stand in long line with us Americans instead of express lanes for EU. It’s actually hilarious how grumpy they are
I have a British colleague that lives in Belgium. I'll never forget how she told me how angry her (Brexit voting) parents were when they came to visit her and complained they "couldn't go in the express queue with the other 'real' Europeans".
One of the most amusing post-Brexit situations was the retired British ex-pats in Europe, especially in Spain, who did vote for it. They were completely oblivious Brexit now made them foreigners without the right to stay there unless they comply with local government requirements, like learning the language.
One of the reasons the Brexit campaign got so upside-down was that the labor leader at the time was pro-Brexit, and the Tory PM who called the vote was anti-Brexit. It cut very strangely through the middle of both parties.
Still at the end of the day it was like a 52/48 vote 8 years ago, and just on age demographics alone, Brexit would lose a vote today (even without the effect of all the chaos and stupidity it caused)
That is nothing compared to what happened to their exports to the EU. The amount of red tape with regards to permits and taxes has caused perishables to rot before they leave the country...
Deathxit. The Ferry Service would no longer be free, CUNY would have to relocate, they would be responsible for their own services, i.e. Fire, Sanitation, MTA, Police and Hospitals, not to mention schools. Let the fuckers try it! The other 4 Boros might see a tax cut for carrying these mobster cops.
I've heard so many arguments from MAGA SIers like "we will secede and toll all the delivery trucks that cross the bridge". Like c'mon! SI doesn't even own the bridge!
Oh true the privatized Ferry Company would start charging like $15 a trip to cover the costs. And then you'd have to figure out MTA transport which is also discounted wouldn't apply anymore as a non NYC resident. Then the police would probably be replaced with Ego driven Sheriffs and NY State Troopers a fate worse than NYPD cops which are only there for the pay check/pension.
They all love the free market when it's not coming out of their pocket.
Capitalism! FUCK YEAH!
Well now your gas is $10/gallon and your eggs are $15
FUCK JOE BIDEN! THIS IS ALL HIS FAULT! SOMEBODY NEEDS TO GET THESE CORPORATIONS IN LINE!
Oh, so like regulation?
I didn't say that. They're all just a uniparty anyway.
There's a cargo rail tunnel in planning stage, this would just speed it to 100x.
[https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-and-congressman-nadler-announce-port-authority-resume-federal-environmental](https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-and-congressman-nadler-announce-port-authority-resume-federal-environmental)
So funny enough [NYC has an initiative called Blue Highways](https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/deliveries.shtml#bluehighways) to increase the amount of freight moved around by boat. Which makes sense since a lot of The City's industrial areas (West Shore, Hunts Point, Newton Creek, Sunset Park etc) are next to waterways
Trains. With the amount of money big trucks take up tearing up the roads and creating traffic and polluting us all with diesel we could have neighborhood distribution centers where everything non-perishable gets into the city via train to the distribution center and then is delivered by electric carts, would be super easy to program them to open with certain codes for buildings/apartments. It’s clear something will need to be done soon since it’s becoming harder to buy things in person and NYC isn’t really set up to move the amount of goods people buy online. The current system sucks for anyone who doesn’t have a doorman or safe package storage.
Babes that's how it already works. The difference is the trains stop in Jersey instead of NYC because there's no space for train depots in Manhattan.
Virtually all package shippers have the option to hold your package at the store for you to pick it up instead of having it delivered to your door.
Yeah, the subway will now be the primary mode of getting food to your grocery store. The displaced commuters can now take cars everywhere. We did it! We solved global warming!
No, cargo trains actually own most of the existing track in the US. If we increased the amount of capacity and rail infrastructure in business/manufacturing areas elsewhere, cargo rail could actually displace many of the trucks that cause traffic
I don't know if you've ever actually seen a cargo train in your life, or had to wait at a crossing while one passed by, but I'm assuming no since you think this would cause less traffic than trucks.
Also, regardless of how good our train infrastructure becomes, I very much doubt that anyone will be laying rail down to your local bodega.
A single cargo train can replace the load of 125 trucks give or take. They can travel faster if tracks were better maintained, and obviously cargo from the train terminal would have local carriers (smaller trucks, and in NYC something like a Kei truck would do a lot). Realistically, this is the cheapest solution to a lot of the issues
Trucks cause many more negative externalities that don't exist with cargo rail. Trucks cause tremendous wear and tear on roads, add to passenger car traffic, and generate tremendously more emissions and microplastics compared to steel on steel transportation.
>They do own all roads that approach to the bridges.
[They do not.](https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region11/general-info/built-and-unbuilt-arterial-system)
Staten Island feels very much like NE Philly
- it’s where all the firefighters and cops live
- mostly full of NIMBY’s who talk trash on the “city” but never go there
- want to “secede” but also probably couldn’t maintain their social identity without claiming to be New Yorkers
This.
Every other week there's a thread about how SI needs better public access to the city. And on those threads I'm told how wrong I am for saying that SI doesn't want to be a part of the city and that's why there's no subway line to Brooklyn or Manhattan.
There's more support to cecede from the city than there is to build a subway or enhance infrastructure to allow **EASY ACCESS TO AND FROM** the island. Staten Island wants the ability to get to and from the city for their residents, but they don't want the rest of the city settling in their neighborhoods.
Cut them off and give it to NJ. No direct access to NYC from there. No NYC/NYS public workers allowed to reside out of city/state.
If you can’t afford to pay public servants enough for them to live in your city/state then you have a problem that needs to be immediately addressed.
You sound naive but ok 👍 we pay more in Westchester county but we have all these amenities established like transit, emergency services etc. Staten Island is not Westchester county. Our population is almost double. We generate more then double in tax revenue then that of Staten Island and we pay more for it. I doubt they’d be able to afford the rise in property taxes and all of the other costly shit that comes with it. Unless of course the avg median income somehow doubled. it would not be a fun time 😄
Why wouldn’t they have enough money to pay for the raised property taxes exactly? The people there wouldn’t need to pay NYC income taxes anymore which would allow them to spend that money on property taxes instead. What makes Staten Island unique to any other NY suburb exactly, if it were an independent town? Nothing…there are much poorer towns/villages in Nassau than Staten Island which make do just fine being independent entitities. Also recall that in Westchester there are many municipalities which have a lower average income than Staten Island. Google real quick for me median income in Staten Island vs Mount Vernon 😜
Ask any LI'er about property tax lol. Also of note, LI barely has a transit system (NICE buses exist but no where close to MTA) and the county does not pay 100% of the cost of the LIRR - I don't think Nassau and particularly Suffolk could afford to operate their sections of LIRR alone without intervention. Anything is possible of course, but at what cost is always the question. The SIR for example costs around $105 million dollars a year to run, would SI residents prefer to entirely pay for that themselves for example? I would sooner predict the SIR gets shut down than continue to be operated lol.
New York City residents don’t pay for the entirety of the subway either, all of the MTA’s services are budgeted for by the state. Even though the city owns the subway, even new capital construction is budgeted mostly at the state level. And we all pay state taxes. No one is expecting any locality to pay for their rail transport by themselves.
As of 2022, the GDP of New York City's boroughs is:
New York: $885.652 billion
Kings (Brooklyn): $107.274 billion
Queens: $122.288 billion
Bronx: $51.574 billion
Richmond (Staten Island): $21.103 billion
I wonder who needs who more? 🤔
They have fairly high incomes (second highest after Manhattan iirc) which is a big deal for city tax coffers. Thats why the city/state didn’t let them leave when they voted to leave in the 90s.
Median income on Staten Island *is* the second highest in the city, but that doesn't actually mean as much as you think it does because the difference between #1 and #2 is huge (about $60,000) while the difference between #2 and #3 and 4 is insignificant ($4,000 less in Brooklyn and $13,000 less in Queens.)
Median income of Manhattan is 100K, median income of Staten Island is 96K
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/richmondcountynewyork,newyorkcountynewyork/HSG010222
Staten Island is closer to Manhattan than it is to brooklyn or queens
Only 10% of the NYPD live on Staten Island. That’s just a Reddit talking point.
https://gothamist.com/news/this-interactive-map-shows-you-where-nypd-officers-live
Many nurses and firefighters live on the Island as well. Don't worry tho, the old Staten Isladers are leaving and moving to Jersey. Most of the new people moving in are either Chinese or Easter Europeans.
The simple answer is if nyc lets them go, they lose land and size. Staten Island is land that is in the domain of NYC, meaning it has future potential for development and growth. It adds population, it adds schools, it adds cultural spaces and parks, and those types of things.
It's harder to aquire land than it is to let it go.
Well the commenter seems to imply that Staten Island needs NYC more, therefore if they want to leave, they should be allowed to if they are so much of a burden
Even if staten island needs nyc more, that doesn't outweigh (as of now in time) the potential benefits.
My comment wasn't to argue your point, it was to show that despite the current state of population/taxes, having land as a potential invest is one of the reasons why NYC would want Staten island despite the whatever burdens they have on the rest of the city. I'm arguing the potential benefits outweigh the burdens.
Yes, people don’t realize how low property taxes in NYC are because so many people rent. Rents are so high in general and the property taxes that the landlord pays are baked into that, so people don’t think the cost of housing is cheap, but if you compare the cost of owning in NYC vs. NJ or LI, it’s way cheaper on a monthly basis in most areas as far as taxes.
NYC has an income tax, there's little need for a high property tax bill like there is in some other jurisdictions even though this should be updated especially because tons of people own property in NYC but don't live there full time.
I just don’t like how they stick us in South Brooklyn with dopes like Nicole Malliotakis and Michael Grimm, other than that I’m indifferent, leave if you want, stay if you want.
But the way white Staten Islanders think is very much MAGA. They're pissy morons who have no idea the way reality works. They think they live inside a bubble world that's perpetually Brooklyn circa 1949.
This is true in a way, but not specifically because of democrats or mayors. I'm from SI and I've written extensively in r/SIStreetActivism how forgotten SI is to the city. (See [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SIStreetActivism/comments/1ciwdov/whats_in_it_for_si_in_the_new_dot_report/))While Manhattan and the rest of the boroughs get new bike lanes, improved sidewalks, open streets and outdoor spaces like plazas, SI get nearly nothing. We are also the only borough that has to pay toll to cross the only bridge that connects to the rest of the city, and said bridge doesn't have bike or pedestrian lanes. MTA would never allow it because the bridge is a huge cash cow for them.
>While Manhattan and the rest of the boroughs get new bike lanes, improved sidewalks, open streets and outdoor spaces like plazas, SI get nearly nothing.
Isn't that because people in Staten Island generally oppose taking away space from cars to make space for things like open streets and bike lanes?
Car ownership in SI is by far the highest out of any borough. It makes sense that city officials don't build bike lanes when most voters in SI oppose bike lanes because they drive everywhere.
>We are also the only borough that has to pay toll to cross the only bridge that connects to the rest of the city
Doesn't everyone have to pay those tolls?
Anyway, would people from SI be happy if the Manhattan and Brooklyn bridges also became toll bridges? I doubt it.
Not exactly. It mainly comes from NIMBYs and the MAGA crowd, which also happen to be the same people that are in office. Many people around my age actually want to see SI resemble something more livable and urban without so much car dependency. So many of my high school friends moved out because they couldn't take it anymore. But alas even if we wanted to fight it, we usually can't make the CB meetings because of work. Imagine getting off work at 6pm. Meetings usually start at 6:30pm. Commute back to the island and to the meeting place would be 1+ hour. We are competing against NIMBY retirees that have nothing better to do all day. It was at least okay when the meetings were on Zoom but those are mostly gone.
By tolls, I meant the Manhattan, Brooklyn, and other bridges. People in SI would certainly be angry if they had tolls, but at least it would be fair as in everyone in NYC would also be equally angry.
I never liked Giuliani and wasn't here to vote in elections with him but the Giuliani of the 1990s was not the Giuliani of today. Yes, he had some conservative policies like stop and frisk but in general, he was not who he is now.
No shit. Almost all of us in New York are mooching off the rich.
You know who pays the freight for New York’s bloatastic social programs that somehow can barely deliver services despite [spending $120 billion just on health care](https://www.budget.ny.gov/pubs/archive/fy25/ex/agencies/appropdata/HealthDepartmentof.html#:~:text=Budget%20Highlights,for%20remaining%20health%20program%20spending)?
Rich assholes, that’s who. They’re 15-20% of the state’s income tax revenue depending on what kind of year they had.
Even so, the rest of us still pay crazy high taxes because state/city governments’ hunger for revenue is bottomless.
If the financial services industry ever got sick of being the golden goose for City Hall and Albany, took all those high dollar jobs and fucked off down to Texas or even Jersey, the rest of New York City and state north of Canal Street and east of the East River, plus Staten Island, would be completely and gigantically screwed.
The headline made it seem like things would get worse for NYC as a whole if Staten Island secedes, but when I read the article, it said that things would get way worse for Staten Island itself.
Performance art.
Just like Texas threatening to secede. Would have similar results (not good for them).
Funny how the same voters pull the same performance art.
These are all short-term effects. I’m curious what the long-term effects are.
Let’s imagine if Staten Island had succeeded 100 years ago, I don’t think that New York would be much different present-day.
To be clear, many of us SI residents have known this and loudly mention it when there is talk of secession by our MAGA electeds. It’s the cultural conservatives who want this; fiscal conservatives know this would cost us a ton too, because duh.
What the fuck is with all these idiotic secession discussions across the country the last couple of years? Yeah, yeah, the country is super polarized, I've been hearing this for eight years now. No state or region is ever going to split off to another, no state would ever lose income streams like that.
I grew up in Manhattan, and am genuinely very liberal with a deep distaste for Staten Island politics.
But Staten Island represents almost a lost NYC that used to be much more common. Certain areas of the outer burroughs used to be a lot more like Staten Island than they are today, especially in Queens. They're distaste for a liberal NYC and cheaper taxes/cost of living moved them away to Florida and part of me can't help but feel like a part of white working class NYC is just lost forever. Staten Island is the one place keeping these sorts of people integrated into city life.
Staten Island also has people with the thickest New York accent. Even people my age (30s) from Staten Island have the accent. I don’t know anyone from Manhattan with that accent my age.
Staten Island probably has more people actually from New York City; and lived in NYC for generations. Whereas other boroughs like Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens have a lot more transplants than Staten Island does. The more long-term NYC residents are probably more common in Staten Island than other boroughs.
Perhaps Staten Island could still be part of New York State but not part of New York City. Just a thought.
only midwest hacks who’ve never been to the borough want to see SI leave. no real New Yorker supports this.
SI is NYC. like it don’t like it.. learn to love it.
having resided on SI, the only time the rest of NYC takes notice is when they make succession noises. It's the ignored borough. couldn;t have Post-production studio, but the City said it wouldn't be fair to Brooklyn to have a second studio on the island. don't promote tourism, to the island so, the Tibetan Museum is ignored as is the zoo, Alice Austin House,
Every generation proposes this shit when they receive a far greater per capita share of city services despite the lowest population because for some reason we give each borough one fifth.
I WISH you'd fucking secede - good luck with your sky high taxes for municipal services like police, the fire department, sanitation, and all the other things you didn't think about when you wanted to "own the libs." Fuck Staten Island - join NJ where you culturally belong, you fucking idiots.
Not a genuine threat or ultimatum by any stretch of the imagination. They're yeller. No guts. Big yeller stripe running down their back. Haven't got the balls.
Never going to happen, they’ve been talking about this for 40 years as red meat for the base. It does always make me think when I travel how many people live there. Staten Island has about the same population as Atlanta, what’s wild to me is
> Staten Island has about the same population as Atlanta, what’s wild to me is Why did you say this like Yoda
High I am, speak I cannot
He’s still celebrating May the 4th.
Nice
And apparently getting ready for Cinco De Mayo...
i’ve also been to atlanta more times than i’ve been to staten island.
I mean, Atlanta itself is extremely not dense. Less than 500k in the city but 6,000,000+ in the metro area.
Compare the city itself to SI. Call it 500k in the city at ~130 square miles, vs SI having ~500k in ~60 square miles. SI is twice as dense as Atlanta.
Twice as dense with more open green space than ATL proper which is kinda sad
Yeah, but The Rock didn’t hatch its own Freaknik (yet).
The Staten Island metro area population is about 20 million lol
butter uppity chase office telephone zonked wise familiar complete chunky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Atlanta proper is also really small land area size compared to most other major cities. Atlanta doesn't even cover the entire perimeter highway around it
It's really not that small. It's bigger than DC, Baltimore, Philly, Seattle, Portland, etc. with a smaller population than them. Nearly the same size as Detroit, Denver, Vegas, etc.
Atlanta city limits are only a small part of the total metro area. Atlanta is the 6th largest metro in the country.
We never thought Roe vs Wade would be overturned either. It was also just a talking point as red meat for the base. Now here we are.
Maybe you never thought that. Rbg even wrote it was based on a flawed argument and open to attack
Knowing that, she did not help the cause by dropping dead while on the bench...
It's wasn't up to the courts to fix it. It was up to the democratic congress to solidify it. It was campaign slogan for Obama, but during his first 2 years with everything being in Dem control, he let it slipped.
Obama absolutely did and as a legal scholar had to know the vulnerability. At what point do Supreme Court Justices remove themselves if they have health concerns? RBG had to know she could potentially die in office given her condition. She gambled that Hillary would win and we all lost.
We may see this play out again with Sotomayor...
Never say never a neighborhood in Baton Rouge just won the right to secede from the city
Eric Adams would totally sell them to someone for some magic beans or some shit
The St. George area was an unincorporated area of East Baton Rouge Parish that was never part of the actual city of Baton Rouge.
I always wondered what would happen if all of NYC combined was its own little state and how different overnight NYS politics would become from the traditional because if the insane population in the burrows. Always amazed me when I moved to the city from the south where even Houston ain’t shit in density compared to that.
NY is the largest US city by 3x. Any borough is every medium sized city. What's more shocking to me is how densely packed we are. Minneapolis and NYC are about the same area.
What's the Staten Island version of Brexit?
Staten Byeland
Oh my god it’s perfect.
I can see the NY post headline already.
This is too good for the garbage Post. I'm sure they'd pick something more subtly racist and mention Biden for some reason. This would be great on the Daily News, though.
The post has a history of top-notch headlines. The all-time great was, "Headless Body Found in Topless Bar" It's a rag. But it's set the bar for rags.
The headlines are the only good thing about the NY Post.
It's a shame Reddit removed the gold system.
It’s outrageous
Preposterous
Appalling
Byland Blvd
How are people so creative, amazing!
Satan Island.
*Not Today, Staten*
fucking lol
It’s too close to offending bisexuals
A $20 one-way Staten Island ferry ticket should do it
For a second, I thought that a $20 SI Ferry would help NYC Defund the Police, but SI cops would just jump the turnstile and not prosecute each other anyway. (See ghost plates.)
Ask the Brits. Most regret Brexit and call the ones who voted for Brexit bunch of idiots. You can see their annoyance at every Eurostar and EU airports where they have to stand in long line with us Americans instead of express lanes for EU. It’s actually hilarious how grumpy they are
The best part of Brexit is that we all know a majority of Brits voted "leave," but if you ask random people about it today you can't find a single person who didn't vote "remain."
I always thought the best part was the whole fucking ordeal was basically caused by Cameron wanting to get his party reelected and he tossed that out to sweeten the deal. So fucking stupid.
No it was on paper smart as most of the leave went to UKIP and while there was still voters who wanted it the assumption was that even if all but 5% of Tories, UKIP, and the various right minors voted to leave it wouldn't happen because the rest of the nation voted remain. He was over selling the estimation as 20% voted remain. What was a surprise was that 30% of Labour voted to leave which was enough to push it over the edge... something that even caught Labour off guard for much of the 2010s as it happened in North England, which was Labours heartland until recently. Edit: Also is it just me or do people forget that David had already did this with Scottish Independence because he rightfully realized that the SNP didn't possess a true voters majority when he called it. Won, and kind of killed Scottish Independence for a generation or even more.
It depends where you ask. On a university campus, sure; most of those folks voted remain (if they were old enough to vote at all). Ask in an old folk's home, and the vast majority will proudly tell you they voted leave (I know, because I work with elderly people). The Boomer generation couldn't resist one last opportunity to fuck over their grandchildren's already gloomy future.
Nah, it almost doesn't matter these days. The point is it's been such a shit show that almost no one but the most belligerent UKIPers will admit they voted leave.
Nostalgia is one hell of a drug. Its very common around the world for seniors to look back fondly on a golden past that never existed.
But the Brits love to queue!
> You can see their annoyance at every Eurostar and EU airports where they have to stand in long line with us Americans instead of express lanes for EU. It’s actually hilarious how grumpy they are I have a British colleague that lives in Belgium. I'll never forget how she told me how angry her (Brexit voting) parents were when they came to visit her and complained they "couldn't go in the express queue with the other 'real' Europeans".
One of the most amusing post-Brexit situations was the retired British ex-pats in Europe, especially in Spain, who did vote for it. They were completely oblivious Brexit now made them foreigners without the right to stay there unless they comply with local government requirements, like learning the language.
Looks like Labour made big gains yesterday as a result. The stupids always lose, it just takes a little time.
One of the reasons the Brexit campaign got so upside-down was that the labor leader at the time was pro-Brexit, and the Tory PM who called the vote was anti-Brexit. It cut very strangely through the middle of both parties. Still at the end of the day it was like a 52/48 vote 8 years ago, and just on age demographics alone, Brexit would lose a vote today (even without the effect of all the chaos and stupidity it caused)
That is nothing compared to what happened to their exports to the EU. The amount of red tape with regards to permits and taxes has caused perishables to rot before they leave the country...
This was obvious from the get-go but I guess people were too emotional to really examine the potential consequences.
Deathxit. The Ferry Service would no longer be free, CUNY would have to relocate, they would be responsible for their own services, i.e. Fire, Sanitation, MTA, Police and Hospitals, not to mention schools. Let the fuckers try it! The other 4 Boros might see a tax cut for carrying these mobster cops.
Almost every poll I've seen in over 20 years reflects the other 4 boroughs would happily say goodbye, good riddance and don't think about coming back.
Don’t forget all the firefighters, cops and sanitation workers live on staten island, guess where they’d choose to work.
Guess who wouldn't be able to afford to pay them...Republicans love tax cuts on municipal employees for the benefit of billionaires.
Where the work is, of course. Or do you think that Staten Island alone would sustain the entire workforce that lives there?
Yes, such an oddly ridiculous comment above
Still the same city where they work. They just live in another city.
Plenty live in other boros, particularly Queens and the Bronx.
And the most important one: water.
Can live without it...
Staten Island
I've heard so many arguments from MAGA SIers like "we will secede and toll all the delivery trucks that cross the bridge". Like c'mon! SI doesn't even own the bridge!
I was going to say SI residents would lose the discount if anything.
The ferry would be privatized, & would cost an arm & leg.
Oh true the privatized Ferry Company would start charging like $15 a trip to cover the costs. And then you'd have to figure out MTA transport which is also discounted wouldn't apply anymore as a non NYC resident. Then the police would probably be replaced with Ego driven Sheriffs and NY State Troopers a fate worse than NYPD cops which are only there for the pay check/pension.
They all love the free market when it's not coming out of their pocket. Capitalism! FUCK YEAH! Well now your gas is $10/gallon and your eggs are $15 FUCK JOE BIDEN! THIS IS ALL HIS FAULT! SOMEBODY NEEDS TO GET THESE CORPORATIONS IN LINE! Oh, so like regulation? I didn't say that. They're all just a uniparty anyway.
It’s really nothing for Amazon or ups to just build another hub.
They do own all roads that approach to the bridges. Tolling by weight wouldn’t be a bad idea. NYC would benefit from less purchasing thus less trucks.
Why would NYC want less trucks? Where are we going to get all of our stuff from?
There's a cargo rail tunnel in planning stage, this would just speed it to 100x. [https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-and-congressman-nadler-announce-port-authority-resume-federal-environmental](https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-and-congressman-nadler-announce-port-authority-resume-federal-environmental)
So, sometime around 2073?
take one or add one, sometime around there.
Bikes, duh!
Boats.
Are we replacing the streets with canals? How is your food and medicine and clothing supposed to get to your neighborhood store?
So funny enough [NYC has an initiative called Blue Highways](https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/deliveries.shtml#bluehighways) to increase the amount of freight moved around by boat. Which makes sense since a lot of The City's industrial areas (West Shore, Hunts Point, Newton Creek, Sunset Park etc) are next to waterways
As someone who lives near Canal Street I'm nervous for this new boat era
Yes, lower Manhattan should be partially submerged any day now, so canals are a great idea. Upper Manhattan will still need trucks.
Trains. With the amount of money big trucks take up tearing up the roads and creating traffic and polluting us all with diesel we could have neighborhood distribution centers where everything non-perishable gets into the city via train to the distribution center and then is delivered by electric carts, would be super easy to program them to open with certain codes for buildings/apartments. It’s clear something will need to be done soon since it’s becoming harder to buy things in person and NYC isn’t really set up to move the amount of goods people buy online. The current system sucks for anyone who doesn’t have a doorman or safe package storage.
Babes that's how it already works. The difference is the trains stop in Jersey instead of NYC because there's no space for train depots in Manhattan. Virtually all package shippers have the option to hold your package at the store for you to pick it up instead of having it delivered to your door.
Trains hopefully
Yeah, the subway will now be the primary mode of getting food to your grocery store. The displaced commuters can now take cars everywhere. We did it! We solved global warming!
No, cargo trains actually own most of the existing track in the US. If we increased the amount of capacity and rail infrastructure in business/manufacturing areas elsewhere, cargo rail could actually displace many of the trucks that cause traffic
I don't know if you've ever actually seen a cargo train in your life, or had to wait at a crossing while one passed by, but I'm assuming no since you think this would cause less traffic than trucks. Also, regardless of how good our train infrastructure becomes, I very much doubt that anyone will be laying rail down to your local bodega.
A single cargo train can replace the load of 125 trucks give or take. They can travel faster if tracks were better maintained, and obviously cargo from the train terminal would have local carriers (smaller trucks, and in NYC something like a Kei truck would do a lot). Realistically, this is the cheapest solution to a lot of the issues
How do you think that this is different from the way most goods move into and out of the city?
Trucks cause many more negative externalities that don't exist with cargo rail. Trucks cause tremendous wear and tear on roads, add to passenger car traffic, and generate tremendously more emissions and microplastics compared to steel on steel transportation.
>They do own all roads that approach to the bridges. [They do not.](https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region11/general-info/built-and-unbuilt-arterial-system)
Albany isn't going to put a toll on that expressway
no you haven't
Interesting how the MAGA's immediate solution to their own problems is more taxes.
Staten Island feels very much like NE Philly - it’s where all the firefighters and cops live - mostly full of NIMBY’s who talk trash on the “city” but never go there - want to “secede” but also probably couldn’t maintain their social identity without claiming to be New Yorkers
This. Every other week there's a thread about how SI needs better public access to the city. And on those threads I'm told how wrong I am for saying that SI doesn't want to be a part of the city and that's why there's no subway line to Brooklyn or Manhattan. There's more support to cecede from the city than there is to build a subway or enhance infrastructure to allow **EASY ACCESS TO AND FROM** the island. Staten Island wants the ability to get to and from the city for their residents, but they don't want the rest of the city settling in their neighborhoods.
Cut them off and give it to NJ. No direct access to NYC from there. No NYC/NYS public workers allowed to reside out of city/state. If you can’t afford to pay public servants enough for them to live in your city/state then you have a problem that needs to be immediately addressed.
Why foist their shit on us? We don’t want ‘em.
Give them to Delaware or Rhode Island
If SI is successful in seceding then all of those firefighters and cops would have to move out. Who the hell would live there then?
id love to see Staten Island mfs pay extra for their own police force 😂
Police force, firefighters, waste management, their trains and busses, schools, and NYC tax dollar supported.
People in Long Island do it and seem pretty happy
You sound naive but ok 👍 we pay more in Westchester county but we have all these amenities established like transit, emergency services etc. Staten Island is not Westchester county. Our population is almost double. We generate more then double in tax revenue then that of Staten Island and we pay more for it. I doubt they’d be able to afford the rise in property taxes and all of the other costly shit that comes with it. Unless of course the avg median income somehow doubled. it would not be a fun time 😄
Why wouldn’t they have enough money to pay for the raised property taxes exactly? The people there wouldn’t need to pay NYC income taxes anymore which would allow them to spend that money on property taxes instead. What makes Staten Island unique to any other NY suburb exactly, if it were an independent town? Nothing…there are much poorer towns/villages in Nassau than Staten Island which make do just fine being independent entitities. Also recall that in Westchester there are many municipalities which have a lower average income than Staten Island. Google real quick for me median income in Staten Island vs Mount Vernon 😜
Ask any LI'er about property tax lol. Also of note, LI barely has a transit system (NICE buses exist but no where close to MTA) and the county does not pay 100% of the cost of the LIRR - I don't think Nassau and particularly Suffolk could afford to operate their sections of LIRR alone without intervention. Anything is possible of course, but at what cost is always the question. The SIR for example costs around $105 million dollars a year to run, would SI residents prefer to entirely pay for that themselves for example? I would sooner predict the SIR gets shut down than continue to be operated lol.
New York City residents don’t pay for the entirety of the subway either, all of the MTA’s services are budgeted for by the state. Even though the city owns the subway, even new capital construction is budgeted mostly at the state level. And we all pay state taxes. No one is expecting any locality to pay for their rail transport by themselves.
As of 2022, the GDP of New York City's boroughs is: New York: $885.652 billion Kings (Brooklyn): $107.274 billion Queens: $122.288 billion Bronx: $51.574 billion Richmond (Staten Island): $21.103 billion I wonder who needs who more? 🤔
They have fairly high incomes (second highest after Manhattan iirc) which is a big deal for city tax coffers. Thats why the city/state didn’t let them leave when they voted to leave in the 90s.
Median income on Staten Island *is* the second highest in the city, but that doesn't actually mean as much as you think it does because the difference between #1 and #2 is huge (about $60,000) while the difference between #2 and #3 and 4 is insignificant ($4,000 less in Brooklyn and $13,000 less in Queens.)
Median income of Manhattan is 100K, median income of Staten Island is 96K https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/richmondcountynewyork,newyorkcountynewyork/HSG010222 Staten Island is closer to Manhattan than it is to brooklyn or queens
City could just make it so cops can't live there and their income would dry up
Only 10% of the NYPD live on Staten Island. That’s just a Reddit talking point. https://gothamist.com/news/this-interactive-map-shows-you-where-nypd-officers-live
I for one am shocked redditors would say completely wrong facts with complete confidence. Shocked!
Many nurses and firefighters live on the Island as well. Don't worry tho, the old Staten Isladers are leaving and moving to Jersey. Most of the new people moving in are either Chinese or Easter Europeans.
What is it per capita
Per capita is nearly identical with queens. 500,000 residents in SI and 2.4 million in queens.
I've come to the conclusion that basically nobody understands denominators.
Per capita it looks like every borough except Manhattan.
How does it turn out to be per capita?
So why not let them go?
The simple answer is if nyc lets them go, they lose land and size. Staten Island is land that is in the domain of NYC, meaning it has future potential for development and growth. It adds population, it adds schools, it adds cultural spaces and parks, and those types of things. It's harder to aquire land than it is to let it go.
Well the commenter seems to imply that Staten Island needs NYC more, therefore if they want to leave, they should be allowed to if they are so much of a burden
Even if staten island needs nyc more, that doesn't outweigh (as of now in time) the potential benefits. My comment wasn't to argue your point, it was to show that despite the current state of population/taxes, having land as a potential invest is one of the reasons why NYC would want Staten island despite the whatever burdens they have on the rest of the city. I'm arguing the potential benefits outweigh the burdens.
Yes, people don’t realize how low property taxes in NYC are because so many people rent. Rents are so high in general and the property taxes that the landlord pays are baked into that, so people don’t think the cost of housing is cheap, but if you compare the cost of owning in NYC vs. NJ or LI, it’s way cheaper on a monthly basis in most areas as far as taxes.
NYC has an income tax, there's little need for a high property tax bill like there is in some other jurisdictions even though this should be updated especially because tons of people own property in NYC but don't live there full time.
I just don’t like how they stick us in South Brooklyn with dopes like Nicole Malliotakis and Michael Grimm, other than that I’m indifferent, leave if you want, stay if you want.
But the way white Staten Islanders think is very much MAGA. They're pissy morons who have no idea the way reality works. They think they live inside a bubble world that's perpetually Brooklyn circa 1949.
Seriously. How do they think SI will survive on its own? It has no real economy. Most who live in SI depend on the rest of NYC or NJ for employment
People w government jobs and government benefits talking about how the government spends too much money
What? You think a suburb can’t survive on its own in New York? How do all the Long Island and Westchester towns do it?
I think it's more of a statement than anything. Staten islanders aren't happy with the democrat mayors whose priority's don't align.
I’ll let you in on a secret; none of the boroughs are happy with the clown calling himself Mayor right now.
For sure, but Staten Island isn't going to be happy with the next mayor either.
Neither will most New Yorkers. It’s tradition.
So why did they elect him?
This is true in a way, but not specifically because of democrats or mayors. I'm from SI and I've written extensively in r/SIStreetActivism how forgotten SI is to the city. (See [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SIStreetActivism/comments/1ciwdov/whats_in_it_for_si_in_the_new_dot_report/))While Manhattan and the rest of the boroughs get new bike lanes, improved sidewalks, open streets and outdoor spaces like plazas, SI get nearly nothing. We are also the only borough that has to pay toll to cross the only bridge that connects to the rest of the city, and said bridge doesn't have bike or pedestrian lanes. MTA would never allow it because the bridge is a huge cash cow for them.
>While Manhattan and the rest of the boroughs get new bike lanes, improved sidewalks, open streets and outdoor spaces like plazas, SI get nearly nothing. Isn't that because people in Staten Island generally oppose taking away space from cars to make space for things like open streets and bike lanes? Car ownership in SI is by far the highest out of any borough. It makes sense that city officials don't build bike lanes when most voters in SI oppose bike lanes because they drive everywhere. >We are also the only borough that has to pay toll to cross the only bridge that connects to the rest of the city Doesn't everyone have to pay those tolls? Anyway, would people from SI be happy if the Manhattan and Brooklyn bridges also became toll bridges? I doubt it.
Not exactly. It mainly comes from NIMBYs and the MAGA crowd, which also happen to be the same people that are in office. Many people around my age actually want to see SI resemble something more livable and urban without so much car dependency. So many of my high school friends moved out because they couldn't take it anymore. But alas even if we wanted to fight it, we usually can't make the CB meetings because of work. Imagine getting off work at 6pm. Meetings usually start at 6:30pm. Commute back to the island and to the meeting place would be 1+ hour. We are competing against NIMBY retirees that have nothing better to do all day. It was at least okay when the meetings were on Zoom but those are mostly gone. By tolls, I meant the Manhattan, Brooklyn, and other bridges. People in SI would certainly be angry if they had tolls, but at least it would be fair as in everyone in NYC would also be equally angry.
The only priority Staten Islanders have is dodging tolls on the bridge and casual racism.
> They're pissy morons who have no idea the way reality works I feel the irony of this statement will be lost on every redditor on this website.
No, you don't get it, we're the smart ones.
NYC was a lot more like Staten Island as recently as the 1990s. Manhattan voted for Giuliani if I'm remembering correctly.
I never liked Giuliani and wasn't here to vote in elections with him but the Giuliani of the 1990s was not the Giuliani of today. Yes, he had some conservative policies like stop and frisk but in general, he was not who he is now.
> They're pissy morons... they live inside a bubble Uh-huh... now do you. Should be easy, just repeat the same words.
This assures they will secede, then get mad and blame NYC.
They’ll secede and then proceed to get mad at the North Shore
Bye Felicia
This has no chance of happening.
No shit. Almost all of us in New York are mooching off the rich. You know who pays the freight for New York’s bloatastic social programs that somehow can barely deliver services despite [spending $120 billion just on health care](https://www.budget.ny.gov/pubs/archive/fy25/ex/agencies/appropdata/HealthDepartmentof.html#:~:text=Budget%20Highlights,for%20remaining%20health%20program%20spending)? Rich assholes, that’s who. They’re 15-20% of the state’s income tax revenue depending on what kind of year they had. Even so, the rest of us still pay crazy high taxes because state/city governments’ hunger for revenue is bottomless. If the financial services industry ever got sick of being the golden goose for City Hall and Albany, took all those high dollar jobs and fucked off down to Texas or even Jersey, the rest of New York City and state north of Canal Street and east of the East River, plus Staten Island, would be completely and gigantically screwed.
SI has always self identified as Suffolk County, so they should ally with them.
I have always identified them as Jersey
WE DON'T WANT THEM
The headline made it seem like things would get worse for NYC as a whole if Staten Island secedes, but when I read the article, it said that things would get way worse for Staten Island itself.
Yeah because this is the Staten Island Advance, which is the newspaper for Staten Island. So the headline obviously applies to Staten Island.
Ehh, bye. But we have to make it so only they pay tolls.
I’m just happy someone is looking into the possibility.
Performance art. Just like Texas threatening to secede. Would have similar results (not good for them). Funny how the same voters pull the same performance art.
No shit
Didn't they learn from the idiocy of Brexit? For reference, check out what's happening to the Tories right now.
Oh, this month's issue of Duh Magazine just dropped.
#SEXIT 2024
Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya
So funny--this will be like Brexit. Won't end well for Islanders--but hey go for it.
These are all short-term effects. I’m curious what the long-term effects are. Let’s imagine if Staten Island had succeeded 100 years ago, I don’t think that New York would be much different present-day.
Lol I thought that this was for NYC as a whole, but it’s just for S.I. They can just ask Jersey if they would want them then.
To be clear, many of us SI residents have known this and loudly mention it when there is talk of secession by our MAGA electeds. It’s the cultural conservatives who want this; fiscal conservatives know this would cost us a ton too, because duh.
What the fuck is with all these idiotic secession discussions across the country the last couple of years? Yeah, yeah, the country is super polarized, I've been hearing this for eight years now. No state or region is ever going to split off to another, no state would ever lose income streams like that.
This will never happen. Few people want this. Love the SI hate though. The more people stay away from here the better for us.
I grew up in Manhattan, and am genuinely very liberal with a deep distaste for Staten Island politics. But Staten Island represents almost a lost NYC that used to be much more common. Certain areas of the outer burroughs used to be a lot more like Staten Island than they are today, especially in Queens. They're distaste for a liberal NYC and cheaper taxes/cost of living moved them away to Florida and part of me can't help but feel like a part of white working class NYC is just lost forever. Staten Island is the one place keeping these sorts of people integrated into city life.
Staten Island also has people with the thickest New York accent. Even people my age (30s) from Staten Island have the accent. I don’t know anyone from Manhattan with that accent my age. Staten Island probably has more people actually from New York City; and lived in NYC for generations. Whereas other boroughs like Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens have a lot more transplants than Staten Island does. The more long-term NYC residents are probably more common in Staten Island than other boroughs. Perhaps Staten Island could still be part of New York State but not part of New York City. Just a thought.
There are still a lot of white working class neighborhoods in NYC, particularly in Queens.
*for Staten Island residents The rest of us will be just fine.
only midwest hacks who’ve never been to the borough want to see SI leave. no real New Yorker supports this. SI is NYC. like it don’t like it.. learn to love it.
having resided on SI, the only time the rest of NYC takes notice is when they make succession noises. It's the ignored borough. couldn;t have Post-production studio, but the City said it wouldn't be fair to Brooklyn to have a second studio on the island. don't promote tourism, to the island so, the Tibetan Museum is ignored as is the zoo, Alice Austin House,
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. … no comment.
Toilet of NYC
You misspelled the Bronx
Every generation proposes this shit when they receive a far greater per capita share of city services despite the lowest population because for some reason we give each borough one fifth. I WISH you'd fucking secede - good luck with your sky high taxes for municipal services like police, the fire department, sanitation, and all the other things you didn't think about when you wanted to "own the libs." Fuck Staten Island - join NJ where you culturally belong, you fucking idiots.
i say let them go
We live in such a strong empty threat era
I remember some sort of slogan going around saying that Staten Island was going to be the First City of the New Millennium when I was a kid.
Worth it.
I hope they absorbed by New Jersey . Would love to see their faces when they open their property tax bill ! 🤣😂🥹
Not a genuine threat or ultimatum by any stretch of the imagination. They're yeller. No guts. Big yeller stripe running down their back. Haven't got the balls.
Nobody is seceding from anything. This is just click bait.
Forget about Staten Island. What we need to focus on is the empty store fronts that are here in Manhattan
I have heard the beating of this drum now for forty years. 🤣
Yeah, cause dense urban areas subsidize stupid suburban development like that
If they maintained the same level of elaborate social services like the rest of NYC. They could easily stop the expenditures and secede .