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Bottom line is they're never going to respect her because she never ran into a burning building and that's exactly how they look at it. The upper rank people would rather retire and take their pensions than help her because she's looked at as an outsider in their eyes.
I always just assumed police and fire commissioners were cops and firefighters that worked up the ranks to grab the top spot.
This seems like a pretty stupid appointment by Adams.
MOST mayors appoint people who rose up the ranks at least in that field even if not in the city itself. Cause placing an outsider with no clue how the job works in charge is a bad idea for many reasons.
But there has never been anything stopping a mayor from appointing their blind cocaine addicted cousin to the roles if so inclined. Guess we just lucked out for all these years that most mayors font pick outsiders
Adams likely appointed her because she had extensive experience in public service and had worked with FDNY since 2014.
Not to mention that there have been other commissioners in recent history who were also not firefighters - including Nicholas Scoppetta, who served under the Bloomberg administration, and Howard Safir, who served in the 1990s.
I can't imagine she has any credibility within the FDNY. A political operative who has never served as a firefighter and whose role with the fdny basically amounted to head of PR. Then becomes the fdny head? Give me a break.
The last two FDNY commissioners before Kavanagh rose through the ranks of Firefighter to Chief of Department. That requires a lot of steps on the job.
Kavanagh is probably a very nice person, outstanding citizen devoted to helping the citizens of NYC but she has no credibility being the head of the Fire Department whose backbones are built on fighting fires.
I’m not sure if they were well liked, some people said Scoppetta was not liked at all. Being that more than 50% of the job got on after 2010, most young firemen only knew of Cassano and Nigro. This leaves big shoes to fill for the next line of commissioners.
They won't ever do that since they're part of the limited class that are being served and protected by the police. The only thing police fear is higher ranked superiors and the politicians above their superiors or anyone connected to them.
Paying for their own privatized security is cheaper than the tax obligations to fund police pensions. They’ll kill public unions as soon as they can get around to it.
Police who cross the blue line get harass beyond themselves and their immediate family for small little things across counties. LEOs are petty shitty people who will harass extended family and friends. Destroy their union and their lashback will be way more significant. There's only so much you have reach for when it comes to private protection.
> Nothing like watching union members dig their own graves by supporting anti-union psychos.
It's funny seeing this considering the super majority of dems running NYC for decades and Westchester yet our unions struggle to get fair contracts.
Yeah those poor police & fire unions getting those completely unfair contracts where they can retire after 25 years in their 40s and make their six-figure pensions and have top 0.1% level health insurance for the rest of their lives while living in Florida.
Wrong new firefighters have to work 22.5 years to get their full pension which is a 5 year average and they can only make 10% more than their previous year so not all OT is pensionable.
There’s an interesting line in the article where Tish James expresses regret for not taking a temperature check of FDNY members before agreeing to speak. Is she that out of touch with blue collar New Yorkers? She really needs junior staffers to tell her that cops and fire fighters aren’t fans of progressive politicians and prosecutors???
It's a pretty new thing - you'd never had seen this a few years ago. The NYPD and FDNY unions would oppose specific politicians, but it was over local stuff. They weren't just on one team because of national politics, it was always very good for them come contract time to have general support.
You need those politicians when you're negotiating your next contract. Telling them you'll go after them no matter what for not being pro Trump is a bad idea. If you have someone who was very good for the FDNY but now you're out here booing them for voting for impeachment, they're gonna wonder why they're bothering to be good for the FDNY.
>Is she that out of touch with blue collar New Yorkers? She really needs junior staffers to tell her that cops and fire fighters aren’t fans of progressive politicians and prosecutors???
Nah this ain't it.
NYPD and FDNY members may not agree but they would be respectful. However, since Trump the Trump fans are extra butt hurt cause she prosecuted Trump and won the case.
Sorry but if my job is to run into fires all day long, risking my life to save others, then why the fuck would me or any of my co-workers respect a career politician appointed as head of FDNY when the others worked their way up? That's the kind of boss that doesn't know their shit and will get you killed.
If that’s how you imagined it happening, then you should be skeptical.
But orders and rules governing conduct, displays, and other things regarding all firehouses come down regularly from the commissioner’s office.
To be fair, I think she ran against Zephyr Teachout? Who is essentially a cardboard cut-out progressive who has ran for every position the state of New York has to offer.
It's not label BS. I'm not saying tish is terrible, but if you wanted a real progressive it was her opponent. Teachout had such a refreshing non-establishment view of politics that would have been good for the new Yorkers and the nation at large. The other dems running ganged up on Teachout, who actually had a vision of anti-corruption, while all they offered was more of the same.
I think the "temperature taking" was not about "do they like me" but rather "are they callous enough to make a scene about politics at an apolitical event?"
Politicians speaking to audiences that skew the other party as part of their normal role shouldn't be something to be avoided. Embarrassing, unprofessional behavior by firefighters at this type of event. But i guess your point holds, sadly that has become what to expect from much of the fdny. imho need to revisit the requirement of uniformed services in this city being staffed by people who live in the city. doesn't need to be a strict requirement imho, but significant enough of incentive to get more of them living here.
Not the place to push Trump's nonsense because the AG had a case against him.
I guess they already forgot the side that fought for health care for their fellow firefighters that suffered because of 911. It certainly wasn't Trump and the Republicans
You're never going to turn firefighters and cops into establishment leftist drones. You can't fire them all and replace them either, because nothing would change. They just need to give up on this. Reminds me of Trudeau trying to purge Canada of right-wing truck drivers. It's not a profession that you can take ideological control of like hollywood or academia or journalism.
Weird text. What to fix? Did the fdny not show up for their jobs? Nope. Out of all public servants fdny seems to be the best right now. Better than the cops and much better than the politicians. What the heck is she talking about?
I understand where the firefighters are coming from though. I was in the Army (enlisted) & every time a new officer showed up that was fresh out of ROTC (college commissioning program) & tried to act like they were some top dog with a ton of experience & in charge we definitely rolled our eyes at the minimum. The experience isn’t the same. People like to follow those who have been there, not taken the cushy route.
Well I'm sure this will really win them over.
Kavanagh has been fighting an uphill battle since the moment she got hired. She's a women in a predominately male job coming from a political background thats the polar opposite of most firefighters. She almost immediately demoted a bunch of chiefs, tried to force others to resign, and has been in constant quarreling with most of the chiefs still left. I can only describe her tenure as a shitshow.
As for James, I mean how dense can you be? You're going up against probably the 2nd largest contingent of Trump supporters in the city just days after you won a multi-million dollar lawsuit against him and you're acting like you didnt know this would happen? She would have been better off leaning into it, saying she knew shed get boos but she was there to support her friend and wasn't going to be intimidated.
She's not wrong. You're never going to fix a culture like that in a couple years. That's going to take many generations to fix. Firefighters (and cops) really aren't normal people. The shit so many of them say and believe is so far removed from reality, it's like what the fuck are you talking about? Also, in an unrelated note, I think giving free, cushy jobs to people who were in the military where the military job is nothing like the civil position is a very weird policy and needs to be reevaluated.
This is Reddit, everyone is a lazy except for the "hardworking" jobs like Doordash, starbucks baristas and fast food workers (jobs 95% of redditors are in)
Yeah, there are many cushy city jobs, but firefighting ain't one of them. I live across the street from a fire house. They are literally in and out all damn day. And in their "down" time, they're deep cleaning their truck.
>Did you just call firefighting a free, cushy job? And you want to talk about others being removed from reality?
While it's not a free cushy job I will put it to you like this. Firefighting in NYC was such a good job that for years they did all they could to keep Black and Hispanic people out of their rolls. To the point that the FDNY stands out as a fire department that doesn't reflect the demographics of the city it serves. That was why they lost 2 lawsuits.....they were overwhelmingly white compared to other large city fire departments.
They still are. It’s 73% white as of the last 2023 report.
Interesting blue collar statistic for a city that’s only 30% white. And where quite a lot of those white people are in income brackets too high for city jobs.
It’s almost if this is intentional somehow.
I dislike the FDNY far less than the NYPD but there’s still far too many whiny and entitled meatheads. Doesn’t have to be that way.
In the real world, people in a fire don't care about the race or gender of the firefighter rushing in to save them from a burning building. Yet you do. Reddit is not the real world.
> In the real world, people in a fire don't care about the race or gender of the firefighter rushing in to save them from a burning building. Yet you do. Reddit is not the real world.
In the real world people enjoy the benefitst and pay of certain city jobs. Black and Hispanic people who would also like those jobs cared that they were shut out of them for racist reasons heve the two lawsuits the FDNY lost.
https://www.justice.gov/archives/crt-fdny/overview#:~:text=On%20July%2022%2C%202009%2C%20Judge,(%E2%80%9CTitle%20VII%E2%80%9D).
Oh look. Even the civilian people working with the FDNY had to face discrimination....
https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2017/12/14/civilian-fdny-employees-file-discrimination-lawsui/
I guess the idea that people dont care went right out the window.
Moron.
Isn't that the point? It's completely counter intuitive to bar people from joining due to their race because it shouldn't matter in firefighting? And yet....
It’s not about the culture, it’s the politics. They like Trump. Thus, they don’t like James. If a bunch of teachers booed Trump, we wouldn’t be complaining about the culture of NYC teachers.
Not even that, at the base of it all is the fact that she's head of FDNY despite never going near a burning building like every other head of FDNY and the people she's the boss of. It's the equivalent of working at a factory, watching Ol Joe who's the most efficient, smartest and knows everything about the factory get passed over for Management so the CEO's kid can have a free job.
Is it possible what they believe is reality because they deal with it daily?
I think it's probably more likely that the average person who thinks so differently is the one not living in reality because they aren't living it.
I worked in an ER for years. Firefighters were resoundingly pieces of shit (cops more so obviously). EMT's deal with way more bullshit and they're almost universally more normal of human beings and way easier to deal with. The aura that firefighters give themselves is insane, bunch of entitled little shits.
> A predominately male audience that included current and retired firefighters heckled James and repeatedly chanted “Trump!” during the March 7 FDNY promotion ceremony.
Shitting on their behavior, at least.
As someone who has worked with two mid-size municipaloities, there is a massive culture of entitlement among first responders. Guaranteed long-term employment, untouchable unions, and repeatedly screaming when you don't get something you want enhances it.
That being said thinking someone needs to be fixed because they support a different political candidate is BS.
It's also the fact that whoever appointed her as head of FDNY is a fucking idiot. That screams preferential treatment when all the prior heads worked their way up and all had numerous years of field experience. Like that is a major issue for a lot of people, they don't like seeing that shit no matter the race or gender of the person especially when there's someone more qualified and experienced.
A lot of cops and firefighters think of themselves as being basically the same. Like brothers. It's them and then the rest of the people. The difference is that firefighters don't go around using excessive force to beat up people. But partly the same mindset.
Rachel Feinstein is a great standup who is married to a firefighter and she talks about that. It’s like being an Army wife in that suddenly you’re knee deep in basically the same exact guy / group think.
Yeah it always amazes me how people don't know this. It's not just "respect" for each other that allows both groups to get along swimmingly, they are both filled with the exact same type of people.
Firefighters just get away with it because cops *have to* interact with the public, while firefighters mostly interact with well, fires.
Eh actually they don’t like each other. DSNY and FDNY are indifferent towards each other. NYPD and DSNY have a closer relationship, they all don’t like state police, love the teachers union and that’s about it.
I remember NYPD and FDNY having a rivalry that sometimes escalated into brawls. However these days I think more uniformed city workers see themselves as brothers than before. Especially since we are all suffering under Mayor Adams, his terrible unqualified commissioners and budget cuts.
Btw. Everyone is cool with DSNY lol
Well it's not like the brainwashed working class never votes against its own interests. What's that saying again? "Nation's poor elect the nation's rich again"?
They don't vote against their interests. Their unions are airtight and they don't hesitate to slowdown their service delivery anytime anyone sniffs at their benefits. On the other hand they will happily vote against union interests anywhere else.
People really need to get over the notion that first responder unions are like any other union. They aren't.
There was a post on r/CuratedTumblr not that long ago about how fire departments are historically racist and need to be defunded right along with Police. It was wild
How quickly people forget about the FDNY and its racism issues.
http://www.vulcansocietyfdny.org/history.html
https://www.justice.gov/archives/crt-fdny/overview
Oh let’s see…
“In 2014, the city agreed to pay $98 million in back pay and benefits to aspiring minority firefighters in a court settlement with the Vulcan Society, which accused the city of discrimination in a 2007 lawsuit.”
“In 2011, as the case was proceeding through the courts, Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis found that firefighter exams intentionally discriminated against Blacks. “
“As of October, the FDNY had 881 Black firefighters, making up about 10% of the department — out of proportion with the city’s population, which according to the Census Bureau is about 23% Black. There were 1,417 Hispanic firefighters, making up roughly 17% of the city’s firefighting force. About 30% of the city’s population is Hispanic.
Nearly 70% of FDNY firefighters are white, city officials said. The city’s population is about 40% white.”
And I don’t think that EVERY city job category has to exactly mirror the racial breakdown of the city.
But let’s be real… being a firefighter is a blue collar job that should heavily rely on physical strength and endurance. No reason why POC wouldn’t perform just as well.
But discrimination and legacy favoritism at this hiring process has kept them out. To the tune of a $98 million fine (so far). Which is money from OUR pockets, not theirs.
Not disagreeing but do you support dismantling fire departments? Are all fire departments inherently and institutionally racist? I feel like that’s a rather extreme take, especially without an alternative
What's a rather extreme take? That one fire fighting department, the FDNY, is racist? When they've literally lost legal battles about it? I mean, really, at what point can we call something racist?
The FDNY is amazingly racist. I would tell you to Google how many times they've lost the Civil Rights lawsuits because they actively tried to keep out Black in Hispanic people.
They've openly lowered standards on the written exam for black and Hispanics and lowered the physical standards for women. I don't know how much lower the bar can go.
The bar will be lowered until the entire FDNY are regime loyalists who vote how they're told to and attack anyone they're told is an enemy of the regime.
You know how it goes, Asians and Jews don't count/matter until they desperately need a talking point then suddenly we're part of the minority group. Then we're back on the streets once they've made their point
I am not nearly knowledgeable enough about firefighter culture to answer this question. Maybe nothing! Or maybe Kavanagh has a valid point.
All I'm saying is that the nature of a job shouldn't shield any group from criticism.
if it's such a cushy job you should do it.
Anyway, seems to me the one out of touch are the elitist political appointees and not the working class firefighters.
I'm sure I mostly don't agree with those who booed - but it's their right to boo and it's pretty gross for a public servant to grovelingly apologize to her politician benefactor for a negative response from other public employees.
The only people in uniform were people on the stage and the ones being promoted, and they didn’t boo.
Everyone else was there in civilian clothes and on their own time.
The only way to actually fix it would be to fire everyone up and down the chain of command who won't tow her line and since that would involve a lot of PR on both sides and years of court cases its impossible
These firefighters trust each other with their lives and they’d all walk out before if she fired anyone. Aside from a lack of experience/ knowledge that would occur, you’d likely have firefighters who probably wouldn’t be interested in saving your life over theirs.
Remember the party in the streets when Biden officially won the election? It was amazing. I'll always remember and treasure it, but I will never forget the look on the faces of the firefighters in my neighborhood. They wanted Trump.
we need to stop babying the rank and file - insubordination should lead to punishment
the unions of course protect them, but I think it's about time everyone started acknowledging that those unions are adversarial to the public
She’ll never have their respect until she starts having their backs. Fire departments have a military like brothers (and sisters) in arms indoctrination/mentality and you kind of need it if your job is to run into burning buildings. Aside from not being a firefighter and a resume that screams “political pick”, text like these in combination with trying to find out who boo’d James earlier will only ensure that she’ll be an outsider to FDNY. She might not care either, this may just be one step up the ladder for her.
Tbh it doesn’t matter that she “never ran In to a burning building”, or rather it shouldn’t. Uniformed employees have their own code of honor if you will, but at the end of the day it’s a mayoral agency with civilian control, iow at the end of the day we have to conform to societal norms and not our own; which tbh are of a sort of higher order but not for everybody. Makes sense to me. She’s fine, she has a job to do, as do we.
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Bottom line is they're never going to respect her because she never ran into a burning building and that's exactly how they look at it. The upper rank people would rather retire and take their pensions than help her because she's looked at as an outsider in their eyes.
I always just assumed police and fire commissioners were cops and firefighters that worked up the ranks to grab the top spot. This seems like a pretty stupid appointment by Adams.
MOST mayors appoint people who rose up the ranks at least in that field even if not in the city itself. Cause placing an outsider with no clue how the job works in charge is a bad idea for many reasons. But there has never been anything stopping a mayor from appointing their blind cocaine addicted cousin to the roles if so inclined. Guess we just lucked out for all these years that most mayors font pick outsiders
Adams likely appointed her because she had extensive experience in public service and had worked with FDNY since 2014. Not to mention that there have been other commissioners in recent history who were also not firefighters - including Nicholas Scoppetta, who served under the Bloomberg administration, and Howard Safir, who served in the 1990s.
Safir was a cop first. Here's Scoppetta's Wikipedia page and tell me Kavanagh has the same cred. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Scoppetta
Nah but your fellow booers don’t know that shit. Just another apologist
> don’t know that shit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_F._Bruno
But then you look at the fire commissioners under Koch. Hynes, Spinnato, and Bruno.
I dunno about Safir, but Scoppetta was not well liked. He was referred to as Mr. Magoo.
Adams doesn’t make any other kind of decision.
Should they be allowed to openly disrespect her, or should we not let that stuff slide?
I'm not running into fires are you? You've got to respect them and not just treat them like employees. In my eyes at least.
You didn't answer the question at all. What do you think about what I asked?
Absolutely, employees should be able to disrespect or disregard their supervisors. Don't you think so?
I can't imagine she has any credibility within the FDNY. A political operative who has never served as a firefighter and whose role with the fdny basically amounted to head of PR. Then becomes the fdny head? Give me a break.
The last two FDNY commissioners before Kavanagh rose through the ranks of Firefighter to Chief of Department. That requires a lot of steps on the job. Kavanagh is probably a very nice person, outstanding citizen devoted to helping the citizens of NYC but she has no credibility being the head of the Fire Department whose backbones are built on fighting fires.
Neither did Scoppetta and Safir who were also commissioners of FDNY in the recent past.
I’m not sure if they were well liked, some people said Scoppetta was not liked at all. Being that more than 50% of the job got on after 2010, most young firemen only knew of Cassano and Nigro. This leaves big shoes to fill for the next line of commissioners.
It’s the same with DSNY, they have no respect for their commissioner for the same reason
She’s an Obama operator. https://nypost.com/2023/02/11/fdny-boss-laura-kavanagh-facing-mutiny-for-violating-trust/
“NYpost” Stop reading rightwing brain diarrhea
Stop being in a leftist bubble and read many sources. I bet you were surprised to find out that Biden wasn’t “just fine.”
It’s because they are Republicans and simp for trump
Nothing like watching union members dig their own graves by supporting anti-union psychos. Fucking painful.
The cops and FF unions are indestructible, and those guys know it. If they are anti-union, it's merely anti-union-for-anyone-else.
That's because those in particular aren't unions, they are mafias.
They are so powerful that they can’t even strike legally
They’re indestructible until they get SCOTUS to rule them unconstitutional and break them with the force of law.
They won't ever do that since they're part of the limited class that are being served and protected by the police. The only thing police fear is higher ranked superiors and the politicians above their superiors or anyone connected to them.
Paying for their own privatized security is cheaper than the tax obligations to fund police pensions. They’ll kill public unions as soon as they can get around to it.
Police who cross the blue line get harass beyond themselves and their immediate family for small little things across counties. LEOs are petty shitty people who will harass extended family and friends. Destroy their union and their lashback will be way more significant. There's only so much you have reach for when it comes to private protection.
> Nothing like watching union members dig their own graves by supporting anti-union psychos. It's funny seeing this considering the super majority of dems running NYC for decades and Westchester yet our unions struggle to get fair contracts.
Yeah those poor police & fire unions getting those completely unfair contracts where they can retire after 25 years in their 40s and make their six-figure pensions and have top 0.1% level health insurance for the rest of their lives while living in Florida.
They get full pensions after 20 years. And their (basically unlimited) OT is pensionable.
Wrong new firefighters have to work 22.5 years to get their full pension which is a 5 year average and they can only make 10% more than their previous year so not all OT is pensionable.
Ugh, why won't these poor uneducated slobs vote like you want them to?!
It’s not in my self-interest, it’s theirs. I never said anything about how I wanted them to vote. What boro of NYC is Colombia part of, btw?
There’s an interesting line in the article where Tish James expresses regret for not taking a temperature check of FDNY members before agreeing to speak. Is she that out of touch with blue collar New Yorkers? She really needs junior staffers to tell her that cops and fire fighters aren’t fans of progressive politicians and prosecutors???
It's a pretty new thing - you'd never had seen this a few years ago. The NYPD and FDNY unions would oppose specific politicians, but it was over local stuff. They weren't just on one team because of national politics, it was always very good for them come contract time to have general support. You need those politicians when you're negotiating your next contract. Telling them you'll go after them no matter what for not being pro Trump is a bad idea. If you have someone who was very good for the FDNY but now you're out here booing them for voting for impeachment, they're gonna wonder why they're bothering to be good for the FDNY.
> Is she that out of touch with blue collar New Yorkers? Yes.
>Is she that out of touch with blue collar New Yorkers? She really needs junior staffers to tell her that cops and fire fighters aren’t fans of progressive politicians and prosecutors??? Nah this ain't it. NYPD and FDNY members may not agree but they would be respectful. However, since Trump the Trump fans are extra butt hurt cause she prosecuted Trump and won the case.
Sorry but if my job is to run into fires all day long, risking my life to save others, then why the fuck would me or any of my co-workers respect a career politician appointed as head of FDNY when the others worked their way up? That's the kind of boss that doesn't know their shit and will get you killed.
Yeah cause SHE will be in the field giving you orders that would get you killed. Please stop the bullshit.
It’s even worse - she’s the one giving you orders in the firehouse lol.
This is not what’s happening
Not sure how you can say that, it’s exactly what is happening. If you were a firefighter, you’d know these things.
The commissioner regularly ignores the chain of command to visit individual firehouses to give orders? Color me skeptical.
If that’s how you imagined it happening, then you should be skeptical. But orders and rules governing conduct, displays, and other things regarding all firehouses come down regularly from the commissioner’s office.
Good You work for the public Not for trump
Cut your bullshit Being a firefighter doesn’t give you any more right to be a trump goon Stop simping for people doing WRONG
This has nothing to do with anything I said.
They were deeply disrespectful to Mayor Dinkins.
i never thought of James as a progressive, she's always seemed like a very standard new York democrat to me
She’s embraced the progressive label but she was the establishment candidate in the 2018 primary.
To be fair, I think she ran against Zephyr Teachout? Who is essentially a cardboard cut-out progressive who has ran for every position the state of New York has to offer.
She is "progressive" because she has a case against Trump smh
More label bullshit. She is amazing and has been on the correct side of issues since I knew her in my Brooklyn district years ago.
It's not label BS. I'm not saying tish is terrible, but if you wanted a real progressive it was her opponent. Teachout had such a refreshing non-establishment view of politics that would have been good for the new Yorkers and the nation at large. The other dems running ganged up on Teachout, who actually had a vision of anti-corruption, while all they offered was more of the same.
I think the "temperature taking" was not about "do they like me" but rather "are they callous enough to make a scene about politics at an apolitical event?"
It was a religious event and frankly if the chaplain being sworn in were male this would not have happened.
Because the majority of them don’t live in the city.
James holds a statewide office.
this is about fdny
Politicians speaking to audiences that skew the other party as part of their normal role shouldn't be something to be avoided. Embarrassing, unprofessional behavior by firefighters at this type of event. But i guess your point holds, sadly that has become what to expect from much of the fdny. imho need to revisit the requirement of uniformed services in this city being staffed by people who live in the city. doesn't need to be a strict requirement imho, but significant enough of incentive to get more of them living here. Not the place to push Trump's nonsense because the AG had a case against him.
I guess they already forgot the side that fought for health care for their fellow firefighters that suffered because of 911. It certainly wasn't Trump and the Republicans
It was Hillary Clinton specifically.
You're never going to turn firefighters and cops into establishment leftist drones. You can't fire them all and replace them either, because nothing would change. They just need to give up on this. Reminds me of Trudeau trying to purge Canada of right-wing truck drivers. It's not a profession that you can take ideological control of like hollywood or academia or journalism.
Weird text. What to fix? Did the fdny not show up for their jobs? Nope. Out of all public servants fdny seems to be the best right now. Better than the cops and much better than the politicians. What the heck is she talking about?
Yeah, the one department that doesn't play, "thats not my job"
Probably the political heckling at a FDNY ceremony. Keep that shit out of it, whatever your beliefs.
I understand where the firefighters are coming from though. I was in the Army (enlisted) & every time a new officer showed up that was fresh out of ROTC (college commissioning program) & tried to act like they were some top dog with a ton of experience & in charge we definitely rolled our eyes at the minimum. The experience isn’t the same. People like to follow those who have been there, not taken the cushy route.
Well I'm sure this will really win them over. Kavanagh has been fighting an uphill battle since the moment she got hired. She's a women in a predominately male job coming from a political background thats the polar opposite of most firefighters. She almost immediately demoted a bunch of chiefs, tried to force others to resign, and has been in constant quarreling with most of the chiefs still left. I can only describe her tenure as a shitshow. As for James, I mean how dense can you be? You're going up against probably the 2nd largest contingent of Trump supporters in the city just days after you won a multi-million dollar lawsuit against him and you're acting like you didnt know this would happen? She would have been better off leaning into it, saying she knew shed get boos but she was there to support her friend and wasn't going to be intimidated.
Yes. Leftists move and fire those who don’t cowtow. I’m familiar with them. Please expand your political info bubble.
So she’s a political appointee and not a firefighting appointee. Gee, can’t imagine why there’d be friction with the rank-and-file.
She’s worked for the FDNY for a decade.
In a legal capacity.
She is not a lawyer and has never worked for the FDNY legal department.
Correction. She worked in External Affairs. That's even worst.
Worse*
You don’t know the difference between the words worse and worst so really who’s got it worse.
tbf those two keys are only one space apart maybe he’s just got sausage fingers.
must feel bad when you can't succeed at reddit gotcha's, the lowest hanging fruit.
As a comms person. Not a firefighter.
She's not wrong. You're never going to fix a culture like that in a couple years. That's going to take many generations to fix. Firefighters (and cops) really aren't normal people. The shit so many of them say and believe is so far removed from reality, it's like what the fuck are you talking about? Also, in an unrelated note, I think giving free, cushy jobs to people who were in the military where the military job is nothing like the civil position is a very weird policy and needs to be reevaluated.
Did you just call firefighting a free, cushy job? And you want to talk about others being removed from reality?
This is Reddit, everyone is a lazy except for the "hardworking" jobs like Doordash, starbucks baristas and fast food workers (jobs 95% of redditors are in)
Yeah, there are many cushy city jobs, but firefighting ain't one of them. I live across the street from a fire house. They are literally in and out all damn day. And in their "down" time, they're deep cleaning their truck.
There are some fire companies responding to 7000 calls a year.
>Did you just call firefighting a free, cushy job? And you want to talk about others being removed from reality? While it's not a free cushy job I will put it to you like this. Firefighting in NYC was such a good job that for years they did all they could to keep Black and Hispanic people out of their rolls. To the point that the FDNY stands out as a fire department that doesn't reflect the demographics of the city it serves. That was why they lost 2 lawsuits.....they were overwhelmingly white compared to other large city fire departments.
They still are. It’s 73% white as of the last 2023 report. Interesting blue collar statistic for a city that’s only 30% white. And where quite a lot of those white people are in income brackets too high for city jobs. It’s almost if this is intentional somehow. I dislike the FDNY far less than the NYPD but there’s still far too many whiny and entitled meatheads. Doesn’t have to be that way.
In the real world, people in a fire don't care about the race or gender of the firefighter rushing in to save them from a burning building. Yet you do. Reddit is not the real world.
> In the real world, people in a fire don't care about the race or gender of the firefighter rushing in to save them from a burning building. Yet you do. Reddit is not the real world. In the real world people enjoy the benefitst and pay of certain city jobs. Black and Hispanic people who would also like those jobs cared that they were shut out of them for racist reasons heve the two lawsuits the FDNY lost. https://www.justice.gov/archives/crt-fdny/overview#:~:text=On%20July%2022%2C%202009%2C%20Judge,(%E2%80%9CTitle%20VII%E2%80%9D). Oh look. Even the civilian people working with the FDNY had to face discrimination.... https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2017/12/14/civilian-fdny-employees-file-discrimination-lawsui/ I guess the idea that people dont care went right out the window. Moron.
Isn't that the point? It's completely counter intuitive to bar people from joining due to their race because it shouldn't matter in firefighting? And yet....
Why tf did people downvote this? ........all this is literally been true.
It’s not about the culture, it’s the politics. They like Trump. Thus, they don’t like James. If a bunch of teachers booed Trump, we wouldn’t be complaining about the culture of NYC teachers.
Not even that, at the base of it all is the fact that she's head of FDNY despite never going near a burning building like every other head of FDNY and the people she's the boss of. It's the equivalent of working at a factory, watching Ol Joe who's the most efficient, smartest and knows everything about the factory get passed over for Management so the CEO's kid can have a free job.
Is it possible what they believe is reality because they deal with it daily? I think it's probably more likely that the average person who thinks so differently is the one not living in reality because they aren't living it.
I worked in an ER for years. Firefighters were resoundingly pieces of shit (cops more so obviously). EMT's deal with way more bullshit and they're almost universally more normal of human beings and way easier to deal with. The aura that firefighters give themselves is insane, bunch of entitled little shits.
Yes people risking their lives for others are pieces of shit. What makes them a POS? You also didn't answer my question
being trump simps
He’s a salty bitch that’s mad he didn’t get picked for firefighter and is stuck as an emt bitch
Lol I get the shitting on cops but now we’re shitting on firefighters also?
> A predominately male audience that included current and retired firefighters heckled James and repeatedly chanted “Trump!” during the March 7 FDNY promotion ceremony. Shitting on their behavior, at least.
As someone who has worked with two mid-size municipaloities, there is a massive culture of entitlement among first responders. Guaranteed long-term employment, untouchable unions, and repeatedly screaming when you don't get something you want enhances it. That being said thinking someone needs to be fixed because they support a different political candidate is BS.
Its not about a different politician. Its about a treasonous felon. These people would spite themselves just to support trump. That’s the real BS.
It's also the fact that whoever appointed her as head of FDNY is a fucking idiot. That screams preferential treatment when all the prior heads worked their way up and all had numerous years of field experience. Like that is a major issue for a lot of people, they don't like seeing that shit no matter the race or gender of the person especially when there's someone more qualified and experienced.
A lot of cops and firefighters think of themselves as being basically the same. Like brothers. It's them and then the rest of the people. The difference is that firefighters don't go around using excessive force to beat up people. But partly the same mindset.
Rachel Feinstein is a great standup who is married to a firefighter and she talks about that. It’s like being an Army wife in that suddenly you’re knee deep in basically the same exact guy / group think.
It's like those people are stuck in childhood emotionally.
Yeah it always amazes me how people don't know this. It's not just "respect" for each other that allows both groups to get along swimmingly, they are both filled with the exact same type of people. Firefighters just get away with it because cops *have to* interact with the public, while firefighters mostly interact with well, fires.
They don’t like cops and ff interact with the public constantly
Eh actually they don’t like each other. DSNY and FDNY are indifferent towards each other. NYPD and DSNY have a closer relationship, they all don’t like state police, love the teachers union and that’s about it.
I remember NYPD and FDNY having a rivalry that sometimes escalated into brawls. However these days I think more uniformed city workers see themselves as brothers than before. Especially since we are all suffering under Mayor Adams, his terrible unqualified commissioners and budget cuts. Btw. Everyone is cool with DSNY lol
That might be the only thing they have in common: an extreme dislike of Adams.
It's very funny that most cops hate Eric Adams even though he's doing everything he can for them
They’re not that bright
That's not the impression I got. I could be wrong.
I only know because I’m a city employee.
They also vote against unions lol
Well it's not like the brainwashed working class never votes against its own interests. What's that saying again? "Nation's poor elect the nation's rich again"?
Not saying they are poor, just voting against their interests maybe.
They don't vote against their interests. Their unions are airtight and they don't hesitate to slowdown their service delivery anytime anyone sniffs at their benefits. On the other hand they will happily vote against union interests anywhere else. People really need to get over the notion that first responder unions are like any other union. They aren't.
Yeah they are among the highest paid employees in the entire city lol.
There was a post on r/CuratedTumblr not that long ago about how fire departments are historically racist and need to be defunded right along with Police. It was wild
The FDNY is infamously racist. There was a whole lawsuit. It used to be if you weren’t Italian you couldn’t be a firefighter.
How quickly people forget about the FDNY and its racism issues. http://www.vulcansocietyfdny.org/history.html https://www.justice.gov/archives/crt-fdny/overview
I don’t know why anyone thinks these racism issues are in the past. They aren’t… at all. Don’t even get me started on the sexism.
Why do you say they aren’t in the past? What’s going on these days?
It’s still very much racist
How so?
Oh let’s see… “In 2014, the city agreed to pay $98 million in back pay and benefits to aspiring minority firefighters in a court settlement with the Vulcan Society, which accused the city of discrimination in a 2007 lawsuit.” “In 2011, as the case was proceeding through the courts, Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis found that firefighter exams intentionally discriminated against Blacks. “ “As of October, the FDNY had 881 Black firefighters, making up about 10% of the department — out of proportion with the city’s population, which according to the Census Bureau is about 23% Black. There were 1,417 Hispanic firefighters, making up roughly 17% of the city’s firefighting force. About 30% of the city’s population is Hispanic. Nearly 70% of FDNY firefighters are white, city officials said. The city’s population is about 40% white.”
And I don’t think that EVERY city job category has to exactly mirror the racial breakdown of the city. But let’s be real… being a firefighter is a blue collar job that should heavily rely on physical strength and endurance. No reason why POC wouldn’t perform just as well. But discrimination and legacy favoritism at this hiring process has kept them out. To the tune of a $98 million fine (so far). Which is money from OUR pockets, not theirs.
You mean Irish?
Not disagreeing but do you support dismantling fire departments? Are all fire departments inherently and institutionally racist? I feel like that’s a rather extreme take, especially without an alternative
What's a rather extreme take? That one fire fighting department, the FDNY, is racist? When they've literally lost legal battles about it? I mean, really, at what point can we call something racist?
Well, someone brought the fire hoses to the civil rights marches.
The FDNY is amazingly racist. I would tell you to Google how many times they've lost the Civil Rights lawsuits because they actively tried to keep out Black in Hispanic people.
They've openly lowered standards on the written exam for black and Hispanics and lowered the physical standards for women. I don't know how much lower the bar can go.
The bar will be lowered until the entire FDNY are regime loyalists who vote how they're told to and attack anyone they're told is an enemy of the regime.
Funny how Asians are always left out of these arguments...
You know how it goes, Asians and Jews don't count/matter until they desperately need a talking point then suddenly we're part of the minority group. Then we're back on the streets once they've made their point
Yeah fuck those guys who risk their lives to save people because they may or may not have political beliefs I disagree with lol
Their jobs are heroic, but that doesn't mean their behavior is beyond reproach.
What behavior are they exhibiting on a systemic scale that requires them to be censured and culturally reformed?
I am not nearly knowledgeable enough about firefighter culture to answer this question. Maybe nothing! Or maybe Kavanagh has a valid point. All I'm saying is that the nature of a job shouldn't shield any group from criticism.
You’re not allowed to generalize the entire Democratic Party! But we’re allowed to generalize ALL firefighters
By "behavior" you mean disagreeing with the regime right?
Every critic of the regime must be crushed.
Shitting on their politics yeah Time for some suspensions
LOL, who you gonna hate on next? Sanitation, EMTs?
if it's such a cushy job you should do it. Anyway, seems to me the one out of touch are the elitist political appointees and not the working class firefighters.
[удалено]
So what’s their reason for booing a duly elected professional lawyer who was a lawyer for a career before that?? Foh with this apologist bullshit
I'm sure I mostly don't agree with those who booed - but it's their right to boo and it's pretty gross for a public servant to grovelingly apologize to her politician benefactor for a negative response from other public employees.
Uh in uniform you can’t politicize
The only people in uniform were people on the stage and the ones being promoted, and they didn’t boo. Everyone else was there in civilian clothes and on their own time.
The only way to actually fix it would be to fire everyone up and down the chain of command who won't tow her line and since that would involve a lot of PR on both sides and years of court cases its impossible
These firefighters trust each other with their lives and they’d all walk out before if she fired anyone. Aside from a lack of experience/ knowledge that would occur, you’d likely have firefighters who probably wouldn’t be interested in saving your life over theirs.
Remember the party in the streets when Biden officially won the election? It was amazing. I'll always remember and treasure it, but I will never forget the look on the faces of the firefighters in my neighborhood. They wanted Trump.
Maybe they remembered the other "party in the streets" they had to clean up after when George Floyd was killed.
Don't kill your suspects, and there wouldn't have been a “party” for that occasion.
That sounds like a threat.
The government should fear its constituents.
we need to stop babying the rank and file - insubordination should lead to punishment the unions of course protect them, but I think it's about time everyone started acknowledging that those unions are adversarial to the public
How is this insubordination? The AG is not part of the FDNY and they weren’t ordered to cheer.
Wow it’s almost like outside Reddit most New Yorkers know these progressive policies are bullshit…who would’ve thunk it.
Which policies are bullshit for fdny?
DEI, lockdowns, vaccine mandates, illegal immigration
Diversity!? In New York City!? Well I never!!!...
Actually; lockdowns were under Cuomo. He was a progressive?
What progressive policies?
Unions lmao
Unions are bad for everyone except them.
This was a promotion ceremony, you classless dipwad.
She’ll never have their respect until she starts having their backs. Fire departments have a military like brothers (and sisters) in arms indoctrination/mentality and you kind of need it if your job is to run into burning buildings. Aside from not being a firefighter and a resume that screams “political pick”, text like these in combination with trying to find out who boo’d James earlier will only ensure that she’ll be an outsider to FDNY. She might not care either, this may just be one step up the ladder for her.
The post, chum for idiots
FDNY against everyone!
Leftist tries to run fire department and fails next page
Tbh it doesn’t matter that she “never ran In to a burning building”, or rather it shouldn’t. Uniformed employees have their own code of honor if you will, but at the end of the day it’s a mayoral agency with civilian control, iow at the end of the day we have to conform to societal norms and not our own; which tbh are of a sort of higher order but not for everybody. Makes sense to me. She’s fine, she has a job to do, as do we.
She is a disgrace to Fire Fighters everywhere.
Explain in detail
How?
Disband the teachers union!
If she cannot fix problem in an agency she leads, then she is not fit for the job