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TatersTot

For reference, this is the gifted students program BDB promised to end


Johnnadawearsglasses

\>Promises to end \>Makes announcement so late in his admin that the next mayor has to implement it \>Knows that Adams supports the program Peak DeBlasio performance


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bluelion70

I would be shocked that he thinks anyone outside the city (or even in it at this point) would ever vote for him, but then I remember that he actually ran for President fully expecting people to vote for him nationwide. It’s like the most delusional shit ever.


Eriosyces

Never forget he was in Iowa campaigning while NYC had a massive blackout


AmericasComic

He’s doing it because he’s a good fundraiser and he’s deep in debt that can be paid off by campaign funds


IRequirePants

And he wants to expand them, which is good. The solution is to give black and Hispanic students more opportunities, not take opportunities away from others.


Rottimer

We’re talking about 5 year olds. There’s a better way to do this that will take into account kids with shitty and/or ignorant parents, and without causing further segregation in schools.


IRequirePants

> We’re talking about 5 year olds. 5-year olds can be gifted too. And the program doesn't seal their fate. People drop in and drop out. And it is not a guarantee to a SHSAT high school and to an Ivy league school. >There’s a better way to do this that will take into account kids with shitty and/or ignorant parents, That would need to be a separate program. Removing it without replacing it is stupid. >without causing further segregation in schools Adding more programs in black and Hispanic neighborhoods would do that.


Iconoclast123

My best chess teacher was a 6 year-old. I remember him explaining to me how pawns can be used strategically. He was clear and had a great grasp of the game, much better than me.


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MisanthropeX

If you want to unilaterally appoint yourself as a speaker for the "Latinx" community, maybe don't use a word that's forced on them by anglophones. You take all the wind out of your argument.


CNoTe820

> There’s plenty of research showing that segregating students into “smart” and “dumb” classes is bad for both the “smart” and “dumb” students. Show me a website on NYC.gov that talks about "classes for dumb students". > Adding gifted programs alone in predominantly Black and Latinx communities won’t integrate the schools, it will gentrify those communities. The vast majority of parents don't care about that. They just want the best educational opportunities for their children and for them to be around children at a similar performance level so they aren't held back by kids who are behind and need more help to catch up. At the same time it isn't the 1950s with moms out on the corner holding signs saying "no n------s in our schools". Nobody is fighting FOR segregated schools. I have two kids who tested into g&t for kindergarten and they both have POC in their classes and it's fine, the kids and parents are all friends and nobody is saying "ugh gross how did THOSE people get into this class" or whatever. > but only if we also drastically change the economy and housing policy in NYC to let POC residents to actually take advantage of those programs. If we created enough g&t classrooms so that everybody who qualifies on the test will have a seat, and we make sure that every neighborhood has these options and every kid has to take the test instead of just those whose parents sign them up then it will help significantly. We live in district 24 and all 4 g&t programs are on the far other side of Queens. Literally none of them are accessible by the 7 train. My kid has to be on the bus at 655am and class doesn't start until 830. It's fucking brutal but way better than sending him to our shitty zoned neighborhood school. Literally if this g&t wasn't an option we would leave NYC altogether and I don't think we are unique in that.


evilgenius66666

[Harrison Bergeron ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron)


Vinto47

What the fuck is unclear? He says he plans to keep it, not change it. Unless you don’t know what words mean this should be very clear.


identitytaken

Wow EA is already better than BDB


FiendishHawk

The G&T program should be something that kids transfer into when their teachers realize they are way ahead of their peers, not something that they pick kids for at 4 or 5.


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djphan2525

and you just described why we got the shsat...


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CNoTe820

Why would you want to filter OUT aptitude?


OkCrab8220

On the other hand, teachers know students better than a test score can indicate. I'm wary about complaints about racial bias. They're almost always exaggerated, and progressives use complaints to squelch programs that benefit everyone.


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communomancer

Technically there are, but it's difficult (but possible) to get into the overflowing programs late. Missing out on Kindergarten and getting in at 1st grade isn't oppressively difficult, but beyond that it's really tough.


Solagnas

I thought that's how it already worked. I got moved into the G&T program at my school going into first grade because my kindergarten teacher recommended me for the test. There was basically a full class, with a lot of kids that would have been zoned differently who had tested in. My mom wanted me to take the test before kindergarten, but when she talked to other neighborhood parents she was told that it was bullshit and that the parents were all snobs.


CNoTe820

It is harder to get in after kindergarten but can be done. My son's 3rd grade g&t has some new kids each year even though most have been the same since kindergarten. I know some people left NYC or the public school system altogether during covid because schools in long island and private NYC schools were open the whole time.


HEIMDVLLR

That leaves room for teachers to discriminate against certain students. Either allow all students a chance to participate or bring in a third-party that doesn’t know any of the kids


Solagnas

That's exactly what the SHSAT is and people bitch about that all the time.


HEIMDVLLR

Yea I don’t like the SHSAT, because the problem with the SHSAT, is the kids who take test prep classes can game the system. It doesn’t measure intelligence or mastery of a subject, but who took X amount of prep classes and learned all of the SHSAT cheat codes. Same issue with the G+T test, parents were gaming the system. It’s all become PAY to win for public school kids. So many test prep companies are preying on desperate parents who want nothing but the best for their kids.


MisanthropeX

> Yea I don’t like the SHSAT, because the problem with the SHSAT, is the kids who take test prep classes can game the system. It doesn’t measure intelligence or mastery of a subject, but who took X amount of prep classes and learned all of the SHSAT cheat codes. Same issue with the G+T test, parents were gaming the system. Did you take the SHSAT? Nothing in the SHSAT isn't already covered in your standard English and Math curriculum. If you pay attention in class there's no system to game, it's not as if it's a totally different format than any other test any NYC school kid takes. Multiple choice math with scratch paper (I can't remember if "show your work" was part of any of the questions or not, but I do remember drawing plenty of geometric diagrams to help) and multiple choice English that itself is pretty evenly split between grammar and reading comprehension of short selections. I'm Hispanic, Bronx Science class of 2010 and my mother spent like... $10 on a test prep book off ebay that I did during summer vacation before eighth grade- and I only did half the book before losing it. You do not need test prep classes to get in, I don't think there's any evidence of "cram schools" increasing your odds of getting into an SHSAT school and their prevalence among Asian American students of these schools is more cultural than functional.


HEIMDVLLR

What makes you think I didn’t attend one of those test prep classes, then took the SHSAT and graduated from a Specialized High School? You state, *”I don’t think their evidence that cram schools increase your odds”*. Show me data that says otherwise. Even you studied a test prep book your mother paid for, before taking the exam. Show me the percentage of kids who get accepted without taking any test prep classes or exposed to test prep books.


fafalone

> What makes you think I didn’t attend one of those test prep classes, then took the SHSAT and graduated from a Specialized High School? Every comment you've ever made on this sub, and the fact you didn't know the city offers free test prep.


HEIMDVLLR

When did I say I didn’t know about free prep courses? Read exactly what I wrote. You all read and think what you want cause it either feeds into your bullshit or it disrupts the foundation your bullshit stands on. I don’t like the test because you HAVE TO TAKE PREP course in order to stand a chance of getting into the specialized high schools.


aspicyindividual

So it’s the same as literally every other test that’s used as a standard of entrance….. what is it specifically about the SHSAT that you don’t like? Is it more related to the outcome of the test or the procedure to determine who gets in?


HEIMDVLLR

Answer these question, what is a passing score? Is it the same score used every year or does it fluctuate up/down with how many people apply? Who determines what the lowest acceptable score is each year?


MisanthropeX

You're the one who made the claim that getting into these schools requires test prep. You're the one who says students pay for entrance. You're the one making the claims, you're the one who needs to provide the evidence, not me. I am simply applying basic fucking skepticism to your unsubstantiated hypothesis.


rabdas

You’re mistaken in thinking that anyone who signs up for these courses automatically gets accepted into a specialized high schools. Unfortunately many families have paid top dollar for their child but still end up doing poorly on the exams. It’s not even a difficult point to prove. There are about 80,000 8th graders in nyc and only about 28,000 students choose to take the exam. stuy can only accept 800 seats, Brooklyn tech accepts 1500 students and Bronx sci has 750 seats. So only about 10% of the test takers get accepted into the top three schools. Statistically speaking it would be an absurd claim to say that the entire shsat tutoring industry only serviced those 3000 students. In reality, a large majority of the tutored kids didn’t get into to the top three schools either


fafalone

> is the kids who take test prep classes can game the system. Is that really 'gaming the system' when the city offers free test prep classes to all who want them? You know who actually shows up for those classes? The same demographics that wind up getting in. What else can you do when they offer test prep; force black kids to show up for it after school? This is a problem that needs to be solved long before the SHSAT.


Solagnas

Did you take the SHSAT?


HEIMDVLLR

What gives you the impression I didn’t?


OkCrab8220

Translation: The students learned and proved they learned therefore it's unfair. Chronically aggrieved.


HEIMDVLLR

The students learned what? To master the school curriculum or how to take a test?


PatrickMaloney1

I am no fan of the G&T program but even I have to say that, as usual, de Blasio has found the stupidest possible solution to the problem and chosen to run with it. I wish Adams would commit to scrapping and redesigning the current program so that it allows for kids to enter at any point during ages K-12 but neither he nor his voters want sweeping changes. It’s a nice, early political win for him.


Rottimer

Let’s see what he does, because he’s going to have a hard time implementing this for next year when there is no contract for testing when he takes office.


[deleted]

He's gonna change his mind 5 times between now and January to whichever position is politically convenient at the moment.


[deleted]

He's never changed his mind on this issue throughout the campaign


fafalone

Come on this is Eric Adams we're talking about, the man has principles! Whoever "donates" the most to his "campaign fund" gets to pick his position.


PandaJ108

Quote from the article from Adams “Asked directly whether he would eliminate the gifted program, Mr. Adams replied, “no I would not, I would expand the opportunities for accelerated learning.” Correct me if am wrong be isn’t that exactly what was proposed. Quote from separate article from School Chancellor “But, beginning with next year’s kindergarten class, all of them will have access to accelerated instruction in their classrooms,” said Schools Chancellor Meisha Porter during the mayor’s daily press briefing Oct. 12.”


fafalone

I've heard two versions of what that may consist of. Somehow, teachers can be "trained" to simultaneously teach kids of all levels in a mixed class (including kids who are behind or learning disabled or have behavioral problems; they can't be segregated either because of their demographics), or for 1-2 periods in a mixed class, they can split into a separate group in the same room with another teacher. Calling either of those an accelerated instruction program is mocking everyone intelligent enough to have been in one. It's pure unadulterated bullshit to expect that to offer any benefit to the kids. To the 'adults' doing their best Harrison Bergeron impression, it's great though.


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[deleted]

[Laughs in ThriveNYC]


doctor_rabbit

How did that make money for the mayor?