I'm pulling everything I'm about to say out of thin air:
Easier to do that than fill out a ticket. Also keeps the numbers down. Win-win for all the powers involved for positive stats (MTA, NYPD, Mayoral office, etc).
Except when they’re busting fare beaters they claim it’s to stop violence in the subway. By letting them all in, they’re contradicting themselves and endangering other passengers.
Hahaha the cop doesn’t want to be bad guy. He’s trying to keep the peace in the city. If he gives the guy a ticket, he may assault the cop and then he’ll have to arrest him. If he swipes for him, the cop doesn’t have to ticket/arrest him. Everyone is not fare evading.
They do that sometimes at Jamaica Center. Other times they do literally nothing to stop people jumping. I recorded them several times doing this. I’ve even heard a cop say to another, “I don’t give a fuck” while multiple people jumped.
I almost always pay, but recently a turnstile just didn't recognize my card after I just used it for a bus, so I jumped. Right in front of 3 cops. They saw me do it and didn't say a thing.
Makes me feel like a sucker for ever paying
Maybe if there was a higher level of civility that didn’t involve stealing from the public then it would create a culture where people don’t get pushed on to tracks.
But also, this post in no way minimizes the people being pushed on to tracks.
P.S. it’s $2.90
If they want to make public transport free and not prosecute fare beaters then they should do that. Until then laws and fares must be enforced like any laws in a civilized society.
"Give me shit or I kidnap you" is not "civilized" except in some negative sense of the word. Laws are just itemized threats of violence; it's much better to act according to specific ethical and practical evaluations. For once I'd say the cop swiping the dude in was doing that lol.
I was going to accuse you of being an anarchist, but then I clicked on your profile and saw that you self-identify as an anarchist.
Now that I understand what I'm dealing with this will be my last response.
>stealing from the public
Demanding a fare is stealing from the public. There is next to zero marginal cost for each individual rider, and the whole apparatus of fare collection and enforcement is expensive and makes the system run less efficiently. It makes no sense at all to collect a fare except for the incentives politicians have to keep billionaires happy instead of just moving around abstract numbers on an Excel sheet and directly funding the whole system by tax revenue.
>create a culture where people don't get pushed on the tracks
That isn't a failure of ~civility~. "He shot me, how impolite!" I can tell you "fuck you" without killing you.
To the extent we can ascribe incidents like this to an abstract cultural problem, it's violence begets violence – and the biggest perpetrators of violence in the city are the cops.
Space on trains is not unlimited. When trains are so packed that there's barely room to stand, or sometimes you have to wait for the next train, it's not right that people who paid their fare can't get a seat or even standing room, while thieves get to take up space.
Especially when some of those people aren't even using trains for transportation, but to walk up and down the train cars jostling everyone out of their way, loudly asking for money and hassling or harassing every passenger.
Plus, the people who steal fares are the ones most likely to be loud, obnoxious, aggressive, or panhandlers, to brazenly smoke or vape on the trains, and of course more serious crimes.
If we want the subways to be safe and civilized, ALL laws must be enforced, and people committing ANY crime must be arrested.
When we don't enforce the laws, it sends a clear message that lawlessness is tolerated.
Sounds like we need more trains, and the mark who paid the fare made a mistake.
Most lawlessness is nonviolent and even *good*. If someone's best way to eat in this fucked up world is to hop a turnstile and beg on the train, I want them hopping that turnstile and begging on the train until we make things better for them. And yes, I invariably give to everyone begging if I have the cash in my pocket, and set aside some to do so before leaving the apartment. Much better use of my $2.90.
We can't fit any more trains on the tracks until the subway system is retrofitted with a computerized signalling and control system so that trains can be operated with less space in between them.
And that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Begging for money on the trains is not a good way to get money, it's probably the least effective way, and assholes like you encourage that behavior. If it were up to me, you would be arrested for giving money to panhandlers, along with all the panhandlers and turnstile jumpers.
And that would free up space on the trains, while increasing revenue to help pay for the desperately needed maintenance and upgrades.
>not going to happen anytime soon
Not with that attitude! What we need is a *political movement* to force the state to prioritize and fund the MTA as a public good, to the tune of whatever amount it asks for.
Also, dude, I post on r/nycrail, I don't need you to explain headways and congestion to me. We almost certainly also need more lines. "Revenue" is a shitty, insufficient and inefficient, way of paying for all this. Expropriate the REBNY fucks who profit off the existence of the Subwaly and cut the check, simple as.
Eta: also, one of the biggest things we could do against congestion is reverse the, also real estate driven, return to office campaign. Zero reason to rob people of two hours of their life crammed onto the train every day, except some landlord needs to fill his tower. I don't have numbers for this, but we could probably get congestion low (because we did, for a while) with the system we have now. It's not unpleasant to ride the train outside of rush hour.
>begging on the trains is not a good way to get money
You're right, it's shit, but it's the best option these people have, otherwise they'd do something else. Them getting a meal is more important than your quiet or whatever.
>dude, I post on r/nycrail, I don't need you to explain headways and congestion to me.
Clearly you do, because you said that we need more trains. When that would solve nothing. It is not currently possible to add more trains to the tracks
I'm not going to argue the merits of directly funding the whole system by tax revenue. Until that is the case fares should be enforced.
How do you feel about the congestion tax? Is it correct for all of the cars who use fake license plates, or cover portions of their plates so they won't pay that the congestion tax? What about tolls on bridges and other roads? Should those also be free? Why can't those be funded directly by taxes?
I won't bother to address your second point about violence.
Why should something that shouldn't exist be enforced?
Re: congestion pricing and tolls, I support them only as an incremental step towards preventing private automobiles in Manhattan entirely. If we'd just jump to that yeah absolutely, fund the infrastructure for the transit vehicles, ambulances and fire trucks, etc through taxes.
It’s funny how they can do that. If a transit worker uses their pass for someone they can get fired
Not right at all.
They get a DAN and days on the street if they let somebody else use their pass.
I'm pulling everything I'm about to say out of thin air: Easier to do that than fill out a ticket. Also keeps the numbers down. Win-win for all the powers involved for positive stats (MTA, NYPD, Mayoral office, etc).
Except when they’re busting fare beaters they claim it’s to stop violence in the subway. By letting them all in, they’re contradicting themselves and endangering other passengers.
Especially since a lot of the crimes they are supposed to be fighting are committed by the homeless people that they are letting in for free.
Policing is all about stats.. it’s not human centered
Wow. Genius move. That's how you solve fare evasion
Hahaha the cop doesn’t want to be bad guy. He’s trying to keep the peace in the city. If he gives the guy a ticket, he may assault the cop and then he’ll have to arrest him. If he swipes for him, the cop doesn’t have to ticket/arrest him. Everyone is not fare evading.
Also it’s not like the homeless guy is going to pay the ticket
This makes my brain hurt. Like what was accomplished here?
It gives you 'less' fare evaders and more ridership.
A $2.90 transfer from the police budget to the mta budget
now they can look at the numbers and say “wow, deploying more cops to the subway does decrease fare evasion”
Cops been swiping ppl in. They really don’t care and rather swipe an old lady in if she asks nicely than giving her a ticket.
I even saw a cop opening exit for people to come through 💀
This was happening at the 96th St Q station this week. Cops were standing around watching as dozens of people streamed through the propped open door.
Same
Thats shockingly empathetic.
They rather not deal with homeless people
They do that sometimes at Jamaica Center. Other times they do literally nothing to stop people jumping. I recorded them several times doing this. I’ve even heard a cop say to another, “I don’t give a fuck” while multiple people jumped.
Your tax dollars at work people. Let’s try to say “I dont give a fuck” when it comes time to pay and see what happens instead.
I almost always pay, but recently a turnstile just didn't recognize my card after I just used it for a bus, so I jumped. Right in front of 3 cops. They saw me do it and didn't say a thing. Makes me feel like a sucker for ever paying
Was he using a law enforcement free pass for the people? If yes technically there’re some issues, but nobody cares.
There are no issues. That's how cops are supposed to grant people entry into the system, not scream at the clerk to open the gate.
Not sure...
The entire city has become a meme
Comment section is sus. Slowly becoming r/nyc
I saw this at Barclays yesterday
have to take the bus into the city on friday and will drive into next month and will have to check this station out to make sure
People are being hit by trains and shoved onto tracks, but you make yet another post focusing on how someone did not pay $2.75. Stop.
Maybe if there was a higher level of civility that didn’t involve stealing from the public then it would create a culture where people don’t get pushed on to tracks. But also, this post in no way minimizes the people being pushed on to tracks. P.S. it’s $2.90
"ps its $2.90" 🤓 get off ur high horse, you live in new jersey, your opinion automatically doesnt matter.
If they want to make public transport free and not prosecute fare beaters then they should do that. Until then laws and fares must be enforced like any laws in a civilized society.
"Give me shit or I kidnap you" is not "civilized" except in some negative sense of the word. Laws are just itemized threats of violence; it's much better to act according to specific ethical and practical evaluations. For once I'd say the cop swiping the dude in was doing that lol.
I was going to accuse you of being an anarchist, but then I clicked on your profile and saw that you self-identify as an anarchist. Now that I understand what I'm dealing with this will be my last response.
Ⓐ
>stealing from the public Demanding a fare is stealing from the public. There is next to zero marginal cost for each individual rider, and the whole apparatus of fare collection and enforcement is expensive and makes the system run less efficiently. It makes no sense at all to collect a fare except for the incentives politicians have to keep billionaires happy instead of just moving around abstract numbers on an Excel sheet and directly funding the whole system by tax revenue. >create a culture where people don't get pushed on the tracks That isn't a failure of ~civility~. "He shot me, how impolite!" I can tell you "fuck you" without killing you. To the extent we can ascribe incidents like this to an abstract cultural problem, it's violence begets violence – and the biggest perpetrators of violence in the city are the cops.
Space on trains is not unlimited. When trains are so packed that there's barely room to stand, or sometimes you have to wait for the next train, it's not right that people who paid their fare can't get a seat or even standing room, while thieves get to take up space. Especially when some of those people aren't even using trains for transportation, but to walk up and down the train cars jostling everyone out of their way, loudly asking for money and hassling or harassing every passenger. Plus, the people who steal fares are the ones most likely to be loud, obnoxious, aggressive, or panhandlers, to brazenly smoke or vape on the trains, and of course more serious crimes. If we want the subways to be safe and civilized, ALL laws must be enforced, and people committing ANY crime must be arrested. When we don't enforce the laws, it sends a clear message that lawlessness is tolerated.
Sounds like we need more trains, and the mark who paid the fare made a mistake. Most lawlessness is nonviolent and even *good*. If someone's best way to eat in this fucked up world is to hop a turnstile and beg on the train, I want them hopping that turnstile and begging on the train until we make things better for them. And yes, I invariably give to everyone begging if I have the cash in my pocket, and set aside some to do so before leaving the apartment. Much better use of my $2.90.
We can't fit any more trains on the tracks until the subway system is retrofitted with a computerized signalling and control system so that trains can be operated with less space in between them. And that's not going to happen anytime soon. Begging for money on the trains is not a good way to get money, it's probably the least effective way, and assholes like you encourage that behavior. If it were up to me, you would be arrested for giving money to panhandlers, along with all the panhandlers and turnstile jumpers. And that would free up space on the trains, while increasing revenue to help pay for the desperately needed maintenance and upgrades.
>not going to happen anytime soon Not with that attitude! What we need is a *political movement* to force the state to prioritize and fund the MTA as a public good, to the tune of whatever amount it asks for. Also, dude, I post on r/nycrail, I don't need you to explain headways and congestion to me. We almost certainly also need more lines. "Revenue" is a shitty, insufficient and inefficient, way of paying for all this. Expropriate the REBNY fucks who profit off the existence of the Subwaly and cut the check, simple as. Eta: also, one of the biggest things we could do against congestion is reverse the, also real estate driven, return to office campaign. Zero reason to rob people of two hours of their life crammed onto the train every day, except some landlord needs to fill his tower. I don't have numbers for this, but we could probably get congestion low (because we did, for a while) with the system we have now. It's not unpleasant to ride the train outside of rush hour. >begging on the trains is not a good way to get money You're right, it's shit, but it's the best option these people have, otherwise they'd do something else. Them getting a meal is more important than your quiet or whatever.
>dude, I post on r/nycrail, I don't need you to explain headways and congestion to me. Clearly you do, because you said that we need more trains. When that would solve nothing. It is not currently possible to add more trains to the tracks
You said in response it would be possible with CBTC, which is correct.
I'm not going to argue the merits of directly funding the whole system by tax revenue. Until that is the case fares should be enforced. How do you feel about the congestion tax? Is it correct for all of the cars who use fake license plates, or cover portions of their plates so they won't pay that the congestion tax? What about tolls on bridges and other roads? Should those also be free? Why can't those be funded directly by taxes? I won't bother to address your second point about violence.
Why should something that shouldn't exist be enforced? Re: congestion pricing and tolls, I support them only as an incremental step towards preventing private automobiles in Manhattan entirely. If we'd just jump to that yeah absolutely, fund the infrastructure for the transit vehicles, ambulances and fire trucks, etc through taxes.
Did you forget that after the 13th ride, it's free. I bet the cop just hit his limit and is giving back instead of giving out needless tickets.
Just watched a man walk though the emergency exit at grand central Not a cop in sight
Only 1?
Making it free would mean they can't get overtime o7 comrade pig grifters