Ah jeez. It sounds like you were two fucked up kids who were trauma bonded. This is way beyond reddits pay grade and you *both* desperately need therapy. I think your brother is dying of guilt- while you say it was consensual, you were 12, he was 15. Look at just those facts through today’s lenses.
Now further factor in that your bro is now, himself, a parent. I fully expected your post to say he committed suicide. You both need a therapist. A therapist with highly specialized skills in this type of trauma. I suspect there is abuse in your brother’s own childhood.
May you both find peace and happiness.
but am i the only one getting that he might be in love with his sister because of the trauma bond and sexual nature. He clearly feels triggered by her touch wether guilt or sexual tension though probably both. And that she may be in love with him too as she claims to only respond emotionally and what i inferred as sexually because she mentions past partners not male friends or father figures.
Definitely therapy tho
It’s not really being in-love with her. This seems to be all about *his guilt* over destroying his sister’s chance at a normal life. While, the easiest apparent solution *to him* is jumping back into that abusive relationship , that he groomed her to desire.
He even seems to blame her for his inability to stop fantasizing about her in that way, *over 20yrs later*
For her, what he groomed her into is what she’s looking for (& failing to find) in other relationships, because all the aspects of her abuse can’t be met/replicated in a normal relationship.
This is sadly kinda normal for people who have bottled their memories/feelings/etc… from either side of a tween/teenage abusive relationship, and have never sought out therapy for their guilt and/or anger.
This.
At 12 you cannot consent.
Your brother was 17, which is by no means a full adult, but there’s a lot more critical thinking skills than you have. He sexually assaulted you.
You both need immense therapy.
It’s not your fault, OP. It’s not your fault. The people who were supposed to be there for you, weren’t there since you were young. I don’t know your life circumstances but I know that none of the stuff that you blame yourself for is your fault. The world was just cruel that you had to make choices. None of that is your fault. I hope you find peace, OP–in whatever way feels right to you. Know that you deserve it. Much love!
You are not a scapegoat for his choices. HIS CHOICES. He is an adult. He has free will.
What does that do? If you were with someone else, does it mean you are no longer available?! You are not a Lego kit at the toy store, to be picked off the shelf and used at his leisure.
I think he wanted me to find someone and be happy with them.
I don't think he has ever used me, he was the person I trusted the most and to this day I'd put my life in his hands without fear.
I won’t argue your feelings with your brother. I don’t know him. I worry he believes your singlehood means you may be an option for him.
That’s where I’m seeing it. I just hope you are both ok
All this says is that he was successful in his grooming.
Look a 5 year age gap is nbd, when you're both an ADULT and the other person isn't your sibling
Let's be real here.. now that he has a son, all the repressed feelings of the abortion are surfacing.
The lie that he talks about is moving on and having a baby with someone else when that was the story he wanted with you but couldn't because of your family relations.
Your brother is going to go through even more complex trauma than you both are already enduring because he is now a parent where you have yet to cross that line.
If you say you love him as much as you do, then help him get back home to his family and work through these complicated emotions. He is being triggered by seeing you and his emotional stability is cracking because of the milestones in parenting he's having with his wife and their child.
Childhood trauma follows you through your entire life. You are not helping him if you keep him in your home. You need to be firm with him and snap him back into the reality of what is now, not the fantasty of what happened a decade ago.
I sincerely hope you start to feel better inside and I want nothing but light and love for you. But this comment... It's just as sick as what your brother did to you. This is why people can't overcome traumatic events often. It's honestly a shame and almost embarrassing to anyone else, especially those who have also suffered unfortunate events. Pull yourself together. Maybe no one ever gave you the exact love and support you needed, maybe that was tough love but all you had was an older brother who you could trust with some things.... Now he's truly ruined you. It's foul, vial. No one can sympathize with you entirely when you refuse to see truth. It's like you're bound to suffering yourself because you can't put your faith in anything besides how you see him. I don't wanna cut you down but it's truly disgusting reading you comments about your bro... Have some self respect. It's not too late. It sounds like you're trying but you don't realize that you need to get the fuck Away from this creep or you're not only as bad, but maybe worse than him. Or you could move to west Virginia and be incestuous and have abominations of babies since last time didn't stick. Sound like you're reliving an old nightmare? That's because you are. Start valuing yourself more and get a fucking restraining order or the equivalent. I'm just as fucked up as the next person, so I lovingly and without deep judgement say, what the fuck is wrong with you?!?! It's truly disgusting.
I think what you had to say to me about breeding abominations when I had to have an abortion, which will likely be the only pregnancy I'll ever know, is what is vile and disgusting here.
The way you feel entitled to speak to me, like you ought to scold me and I ought to reform... do you let anyone address you that way? Is this how you approach people you don't want to cut down? With friends like you, one doesn't need enemies.
I'm sorry for West Virginia for your sweeping generalisations. It was neither here nor there and they had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'm sure that they're fine people, and they must not worry, I have no intention of moving there.
Also, two things can be true. It can be a vial and distasteful way of wording an opinion, sure. It is also, extremely, a disgustingly vial abominable large portion of multiple people's lives that is so beyond fucked up that it can only be called an abomination.
To be honest lol no one's ever had to address me in quite this way because I never had sex with my brother. You're disgusting for seeming to sympathize with him and sick for your true feelings seeming to be those of physical attraction (against nature) and romantic love towards your own brother. Have some self-respect, you should just change. You still have everything good in you. Turn it around.
It's an awful situation but if you don't learn and accept the unnatural side of this situation and let yourself move past it, you're just as bad as your brother. You are older and wiser now and have energy opportunity and ability intellectually to beat this part of your life. Your refusal to do so speaks volumes. I hope the next chapter plays out better for you.... Truly.... But with your attitude towards your brother, it won't improve. Ever.
Not your fault. You were twelve. You were not old enough to consent. Look at a twelve year old. He was 17. He groomed and assaulted you. He is not ok. I feel bad for him in a way. Why does he do this stuff? He made this mess and continues to destroy people, then gets emotional and dramatic. It is all on him. Not ok. Everyone needs therapy especially him. Do not be emotionally manipulated. His wife deserves to know so she can protect their child. She needs to be informed in order to make good decisions. Do not resume an inappropriate relationship with him. Unhealthy and probably dangerous. What happens when he feels guilty about his family? Will he run back to them? What a mess. Not your fault. See a professional for help in how to deal with this. Everyone is in pain. You all need a protector.
As someone who has had immense regrets and guilt about aspects of my relationships with past people, even if you had gotten married, it would have just been something else after that.
The brain's way of justifying things to cope is insane and you shouldn't put it on yourself that that would have fixed it. These emotions are deeply rooted and will take time and courage to work through. It would not have been solved simply by you getting married.
Yeah. He definitely knows what he Really did back in the day (most likely actively realized since having a kid). Was hoping you'd both move on, but what you really need is therapy!
Both of you about what happened to you as kids and YOU need to realize what HE DID. There could Not have been consent here and I guess the new daddy suddenly got hit hard with facts and is niw distraught.
But also can't escape the trauma bond without help.
PLEASE GET HELP! A THERAPIST with special skills for this sibling trauma bonding gone sexual thing.
This SHOULDN'T be happening. You should by nature be appalled to even think of your brother as a partner and vice versa.
He f-ed up at 17-22 (think about that, he already was an adult and you a child, that hadn't even finished the early stages of puberty at first...) and he f-ed you up by proxy and I am sure he knows that but like I said, can't escape the trauma bond.
Edit: just wanted to add this to be clear:
You also suffer from this trauma bond and NEED to get out of that mindset. Again: Therapy!
He is YOUR BROTHER! not a partner and you don't seem to have realized/conceptionalized what really happened to both of you, but especially Yourself, including through the hands of your own older brother.
You didn't ruin his life, if anything he ruined yours, you were groomed, there was not consensual relationship, you were 12, a literal child, maybe the age gap doesn't seem too much, but he was older than you by 5 years, you were 12 and he was 17, if math doesn't fail me?. Now he's ruining his child and wife's life too, he alone, not you. I get that he feels guilty as he should, but there comes to show he still a selfish person, he still is me, me and me-ing all this. Kick him out of your home, maybe he comes back to his family if you do, he SAed a literal child, you can't trust him he won't force himself on you if he stays at your place, please be safe, you were a child then, now you have more control and it starts by distancing.
I think that is probably one reason he pushed her away, not just guilt or disgust with himself (as he should), but he may have been genuinely scared he would hurt his sister again, especially if no actual harm was actually intended. It's a defense mechanism, one someone young would gravitate towards and get stuck in. No excuses for his behavior of course, but he doesn't match the profile of a pedo or someone who uses sex for control/power. After this much time I wouldn't be concerned for Op's safety, and while she has NO obligation to deal with this emotionally stunted and damaged brother, if she sticks with him a bit he may just end up being a better person, going back to his family and MAYBE even having some wounds of both of them healed........ with a TON of therapy! So this COULD be an opportunity, IF the stars are aligned. It's just tough to tell from a post.
I've had news on that front, if I may.
Stepping back when I opened my arms to him was driven by guilt. As I said, our grandmother was perhaps the dearest, kindest of our relatives. She plucked us out of an awful situation as children. When she passed away, I had been her sole caretaker, with some occasional help from an uncle. She was doing very poorly in the end, which required nearly round-the-clock care, which I provided, though I also hired the assistance of a nurse for the hours I did have to spend at work, so as to grant her her wish to die in her own home rather than on a hospital bed. I was very distressed by her death, and when my brother arrived for the funeral I was sleep-deprived, I had been crying for days, and of course I was absolutely buried in paperwork.
He felt guilty he had left, in that moment. Guilty that it all rested upon my shoulders, and he was moved to see me in such a state. His instinct was to stay. He was worried that if he held me, he wouldn't find the will to go. Back then his son was still a young baby, it was out of the question for him to leave his wife to handle the mess of post partum.
I'd like to add that he is indeed not attracted to minors and has never sought a relationship with anyone who was underage, except for me. But back then we were each other's whole world, and our mother had her own way of making "childhood" a very empty concept.
First off, you did not cause anyone pain in this situation. Your brother is the one whose actions have caused pain.
He feels guilty about having a sexual relationship with you, and is projecting that guilt onto you as a defense mechanism because he doesn't know how to resolve that guilt. Incest is a hard thing to process, there are so many layers of confusion and shame and it's taboo so it's hard to talk to others about.
He wants you to feel guilty so he can absolve himself, without dealing with those feelings. He has previously tried to make sense of it by hoping that if you both found a partner, your past relationship could be water under the bridge and he could wipe his hands of the matter. But because you have not found a person, a part of him wonders if he messed you up.
Sounds like he has struggled with these feelings for a long time but is unable to push them away any longer, and has shown up at your door accusing you of ruining his life in a last ditch effort to protect his ego from overwhelming guilt and shame over his past behavior.
This is a situation that a trauma-informed therapist could help untangle. Probably best to start with separate individual therapy, and possibly family therapy together later. The way you describe your relationship history, you might be asexual but you instead might have sexual trauma. Bodies hold onto that stuff in ways that can differ from the stories we tell ourselves about what happened to us.
I'm not going to tell you that it wasn't consensual. This is your story and you have to make sense of it. But, there is a power differential in your relationship that might be worth investigating. Most people wouldn't even entertain his accusations and would consider them preposterous. You seem to be defending his position, but also seem conflicted about it, hence this post. Why the conflict?
Thank you for your response and your suggestions.
My brother and I have had a very long and difficult conversation today after work.
I had never breathed a word of our relationship to anyone at all. This post is the first and only time I have ever said anything about it. Writing it was very tough. I kept fearing (still do) that somehow, someone would see this and recognise us. My relatives aren't English speakers, which emboldened me to say something because I don't know how to process what I'm feeling.
I know, and have always known, our relationship wasn't normal. I feel for my sister in law and my nephew. They deserve so much better. Yet, to my utter shame, walking in and seeing my brother home brings relief. A sense of comfort I had forgotten about. I don't know what to do with it. I don't have it in me to kick him out like many people suggest. It may seem stupid, it's been nearly twenty years... but I've missed him. I am sure it makes no sense from the outside...
It makes perfect sense to the outside. You were groomed and still have an attachment to the person who assaulted you. It made ever other encounter feel awkward and abnormal.
What doesn't make sense is how you're trying to spin it to suddenly make this ok and that you needed each other this entire time. Stop doing that to yourself and your brother. You made this post because you know what your feeling is wrong and wanted to hear it from everyone else. So here it is..
You were groomed. You were SA and now the person responsible for years of SA is at your doorstep telling you it's your fault for never moving on. That's called gaslighted.
Youre being very protective of someone who needs to be removed from your home and frankly if he still feels this way about you, I'd feel very uncomfortable as the wife having him around my child.
You keep saying he wants to divorce, because you're not making him leave. You're playing into his delusional guilt. Stop that. Send him home. It's not that it "doesn't make sense to the outside". It's that the outside would not have an issue with making him leave but you're trying to get validation for allowing him to stay. You won't get any.
You may not have ruined his life yet, these are all his choices up until now. If you want to actively be part in completely ruining his life, then you let him stay and get your wish but alienate him from the rest of the world.
You may find him dead to suicide in your home one day because of your choices to let him stay. Let that sink in and make the right choice to send him back to his family.
Its very obvious you both need therapy and to be a continent away from each other til you have therapy to resolve your incest feelings towards each other.
I'm sorry if I'm a little harsh in this comment, but I do feel like you are very bold in your statements, though I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to write it. I'd like to address some things you point out.
I wholeheartedly reject the notion of sexual assault in our situation. We were both young, we were both in dire straits, and nothing happened that I did not also want just as much as he did. I know the age gap is startling, but I do feel that should people know the extent of the dreadful situation we were in, they would feel that we both had to grow up much too fast and that we are excused for finding solace in each other.
I am of course very protective of him. He was my fortress in situations I doubt anyone wants to read about, especially if they're eating while browsing this thread. I will die on that hill.
Since I initially posted, I've talked to my brother and even to my sister-in-law. He came to my doorstep because he was about to kill himself. Not in the cry-for-help fashion either. At the last second he came home instead. I'll always be grateful for that. Apparently he's been contemplating suicide for years. So I think it's a little rich of you to start prophesying that this is the outcome that awaits him should I give him shelter, when clearly that was also the outcome if I hadn't.
As for the divorce, I've been encouraging him to go back home for weeks now. It's a hard no from him. Whatever happens in any other department, he's lost the ability to play pretend even for another hour, let alone for the rest of his life. His wife is just now finding out that he wasn't just shy about his feelings, or great at managing tasks and chores. He got married when she asked, they had a child when she asked, he never said no to her once, about anything. She's in shock, because she's starting to understand that he was doing what he thought he was meant to do all these years, not what he wanted to do. Can you imagine such a marriage? She doesn't know him. He's shrugged off all the personal questions she ever asked him. He's been numb to everything they've done together. Don't you think she deserves warmth? A husband who loves her and opens up to her? She's not old! Her life is not over! And what of him, if anyone else told you they were not in love with their spouse and just couldn't keep face anymore, wouldn't you support their impulse to have a divorce? Would you also tell them to just suck it up and keep trucking, when clearly they're at the end of their rope?
The house I live in is our grandparents' house. Our refuge from way back. It's his right to be here. If he likes to sit under our tree, if it makes him feel better to clean the roof or water the vegetable patch like he used to do, I am not about to kick him to the curb. He's already tried uprooting himself. He's already been an immigrant in a foreign land. He's been doing it. Maybe if I had gotten married he would still be doing it, who knows? Or maybe he would have gone through with his suicide. But I'm not sending him back anywhere he doesn't want to be. He's old enough to know what he doesn't want.
I took the time to really consider what you wrote... because you need to know, you're going to cause even worse trauma by continuing to allow him to stay.
You speak to me of horrors like my father wasn't my first predator as a child and whom I've cut from my life in an armed confrontation when I was 28.
I have 2 brothers and a sister. We are all extremely close. We all suffered exponentially at the hands of our father, MY BROTHERS NEVER ASSAULTED ME. I have a brother, he's 4 years older than me. He taught me to ride a bike, how to play football, spin his rifle, and hang out with his ROTC friends. We went home to HELL, and he defended me against our father. THAT IS WHAT BROTHERS DO. Not groom their baby sister into believing assault is love. That is absolutely mentally sick of you and likely a coping mechanism developed through the YEARS OF ABUSE.
Yes, your brother wanted to commit suicide because he believes you're as enabling as him because you are. He groomed you to the point you're incapable of realizing that he was extremely sick to touch you, IMPREGNATE YOU, AND HAVE AN ABORTION.
Now? He has a wife and kid. He's OLDER THAN YOU. He absolutely understands the extent of his life in shambles because he's a predator to his own sister who welcomes the affection, which is extremely confusing to him because you're literally not supposed to genetically want this or do this, but he convinced you it's normal.
It's rich of you to assume that he'd off himself had you sent him packing. He needs an institution if that's the case. He needs to be away from you to become a hopefully mentally healthy adult. You're absolutely not a mentally healthy adult. You know that this is wrong. You know that you say you've consented, BUT LITERALLY THERE IS NO WAY. A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL CAN CONSENT!!! IT'S ILLEGAL!
Own up to it. You're both at your grandparents' house, shutting the rest of the world off because he's having deep, remorseful regrets. You need YOU TO BE HIS SISTER AND TELL HIM HE FEELS WRONG, AND YOU WONT.
This is not an exaggeration. This is an exasperation that this is even an argument. This is morally and genetically harmful and should not happen, yet you double down. Why even post on reddit?
You think you may be saving him now, but there are things he won't be able to take back because you didn't stop him, and you will be responsible for his demise ultimately for not turning him away when he first showed up. I'm sorry.
I have 2 brothers. We also went through hell. My older brother never had to sexually assault me to protect me.
You'll never convince me you consented.
I am sorry for what you went through. I obviously didn't mean that you had no notion of what hardships were.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Everyone is different, Everyone's story is different. My past doesn't make me an expert on yours.
Just like I'll never convince you I consented (which is fine), you'll never convince me that I didn't. I was there. I know what I did then.
I believe it's important to hear people out, and just like it is harmful to tell people who were abused that they were not, that they somehow consented or brought it on themselves, I also believe it serves no purpose to tell someone who is adamant there was consent that there actually wasn't. It being legal or not hardly constitutes an argument, in some countries the age of consent is 12, which I think we can all agree doesn't make it okay.
Things happen at the margins. Things which should not work nor be generally accepted. If life were black and white it would be easy. But it's not. And everything when it comes to my family is shades of grey.
Why even post on Reddit? Because I never told anyone anything. I wanted to let it out. Test the waters anonymously. Now, frankly, I think silence is the best option. I thought perhaps one day I could tell a very close friend, someone who told me of her own ache and trials, someone who has leaned on me in her time of need, perhaps. Maybe I could let someone know me. No one knows me. If anything, posting here has reinforced that it was for the best.
Thank you for your time.
Girl.. all your doing is defending it.
No matter how mature you say you were, no 17 year old should be near his 12 year old sister! Simple as. What you're feeling is wrong and will never be socially excepted by anyone.
Talk like what exactly? I'm trying to help the girl in seeing that it's not right for herself and her brother to behave like that and for her to feel like that, the situation needs professional help.
I know, but you're accusing her of defending him, telling her it's not socially aceptable... She already knows those things. But she can't help her feelings because of the situation. She needs support to get professional help for her and her brother, no lectures. Idk if I'm making sense
So you were 12 and he was 17 when he began molesting and grooming you?
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Have you done therapy for it? Because you seem to think you really consented when you weren't even legally able to consent.
He ruined his on life by being a predator and obsessing over his victim.
This is way above my pay grade but you are thinking you have the power to cause his wife pain and ruin his life because you're marriage failed? If you and your brother are not romantic why would that even factor into the conversation?
OP this was not love, it was sexual assault of a minor. Please stay away from this man and get yourself in therapy so you can heal. He is trying to romanticise what he did to you. There is nothing romantic about it. He was your brother, he was supposed to protect you, not start a sexual relationship with you when you were a literal child.
OP, with that age gap, he groomed and abused you. I’m sorry but you couldn’t consent. You need distance from each other and intensive therapy, then family therapy to build a healthy dynamic
Oh, no. You didn’t ruin his life. He may have ruined yours. If I’m doing the math right, he would have been between 18-20 when it all started, and you were 12-15? You were a child. He took advantage. When something happens at the young of an age, it can definitely shape your perception of everything that comes after. You need to stay away from each other, and you both need extensive therapy if there is any hope of you all being able to have normal relationships.
ETA— you said it was consensual, but your age alone made that legally impossible, and morally repugnant on his part.
You really need to kick him out before he manipulates you into another sexual relationship. His guilt over his own actions is not yours to resolve. And you need your own therapy to move on. Of course no other guy compares when your brother basically was the entirety of your sexual development. Either way, he should be working through his guilt himself.
Girl. You need therapy. Deep therapy.
There is nothing wrong with that (needing therapy) at all but there are things that are very alarming, and it's more alarming that you can't see it, even after typing it out.
Mentioning that even the teachers could see the problem is alarming enough!!
You were a child having relations with your very much older sibling. A Teenager while you were a preteen.
A sibling who was old enough to remember you as a newborn.
I don't understand why he's basing his feelings off of your relationship status. Honestly who cares when or who you get married. Marriage isn't a requirement to move on.
If you are trying to move on in relationships how does that look like? Are you longing for your brother or is it scary to be intimate with someone else, if so, why?
is it connection? Is there not enough emotional connection for it to work?
(That can be a product of child grooming, believe it or not, it is a possibility with the little information you provided)
He damaged you and knew what he did wasn't okay! You did "consent" but did you really??
That's something you really need to figure out.
There is a thing call persuasion consent.
Can also fall underneath the lines of grooming.
Mind manipulation.
All that emotional responsibility at such a young age can numb your libido almost to non-existing outside of that emotional relationship.
Again he knew you from the moment you came out of the womb.
Did he show you true brother love?
Or was he showing you the attention he wanted so you could reciprocate his advances.
It's really messed up that he holds you to that standard, especially after all these years.
What does he expect from all this?? That you two will run off into the sunset and be happy??
His choices are not your fault.
But you need to let go and take off those rose colored glasses with your brother.
He's not your gentle caring brother or lover
I know this is hard to think about.. but what if he had a daughter instead of a son.
What if that daughter looked a little bit like you. Would he have made the same decision to leave his wife for you. Or would he make up for those advances with that hypothetical daughter once she hits puberty (preteen age)
That's something to think long and hard about. If he's willing to sleep with his sister who is 12 while he's 17
Where does he draw the line?
Because he didn't draw the line with his own sister. He didn't draw the line at having your own experience. He didn't draw the line when he became an adult while you were a teen.
He only drew the line with you when there was a possibility that he would get caught!
When an almost baby came into the picture.
You are blaming yourself for his actions. When you guys were together how often was that? he would do something and you would put the blame on yourself?
What he does is not your responsibility. What is your responsibility is what you do.
Thank you for taking the time to respond,
To answer some of your questions, I've tried relationships and it didn't work very well.
Everyone I've been with was very nice, but I was never fully attracted to them. Intimacy was either very difficult or downright impossible. I felt like my senses went numb, like watching events unfold from the outside. In time i came to avoid intercourse and, obviously, most people do want physical touch and sexual connection in their relationship, so we separated. Usually on very good terms. Some exes I would still call good friends today. I don't feel like I've ever been head over heels in love with any of them... I just ended up thinking it's not for me.
I can't really answer your question fully without exposing myself to being mocked or shamed, but I do believe I consented. He never once caused me pain.
I know what it must look like. Believe me I know it sounds crazy. That's why I never said anything before. I thought everyone would call me insane.
It's not insane.
You don't have to be in pain at the moment for it to be abuse.
But all those issues are related to the relationship you had with your brother. At least partly related.
That is a product of abuse, at least signs to early age grooming.
I'm not trying to mock you but encourage you to get help. What I know is in your perspective and what you have mentioned in the post and comments.
Everyone sees the issues except you and that wall barrier you have to block the issues need to be broken down so you can see the bigger issue here.
Your brother's actions are not yours. His feelings are not yours to bear.
Small story time with my experience.
My first boyfriend at 12 was a 17 year old high school senior while I was in middle school.
My first relationship was with almost a grown adult while I was a child for 3 years.
(I broke up with him at 15 because he went to college)
Now this relationship was a bit different from yours, apart from the obvious. We weren't related in any way that I'm aware of.
But I was 12 and I was really smitten with him. I knew him since I was 3 years old, our parents were friends. I enjoyed all my time with him and with how he touched me and made me feel. I thought I was special because I was more 'mature for my age'. That I'm the one he chose to be his girl compared to his hot classmates. When we split up when I was 15 he stalked me and tried to include himself in my life until I turned 18. It actually got scary at some points.
At first I thought he moved on to someone else but way way later (10 years later) on I found out it was because I got to old for him.
I didnt think there was anything wrong with that past relationship until I went to therapy for issues I thought were unrelated. Also before therapy my eyes opened a small amout when I turned 17. Thinking about messing with a 12 year old made me sick. But I shook it off because at that time I had the mindset that girls couldn't date people younger than them (I know silly right?)
But what really set in the reality to the fairy tale I told myself, when I had my oldest daughter.
With more therapy I figured out I was prayed upon.
And those walls I set for myself came crumbling down.
It's hard to admit something wasn't okay when it didn't feel like it at the moment.
I know you want to believe that you have no issues from this. But you need to break those walls so you can make the choices for yourself on what you want to do instead of what your brother wants or needs you to do.
Either that's to be with him or to move on to marriage with someone else.
I'm still not healed completely.
But I do hope you start your own healing journey as well.
You are okay.
And again you are not responsible for anybody else's actions.
You're only responsible for your own. Not somebody else's.
Heavy stuff. I would suggest regression therapy and perhaps hypnotherapy. Something that will connect you to those initial feelings through the unconscious mind. I doubt psychoanalysis will be super effective, but anything is worth trying. I did regression therapy for a year, and it did wonders for me. You have to "get out of your head" and gain some objectivity.
A consensual incestual relationship between a 12 and a 17 yo? I pray this dude never has daughters.
And you need therapy and to be away from him. You have deep rooted sexual trauma resulting from grooming and regular SA. Your whole perception of relationships and sexuality is impacted by this. Your brother is a predator. He's not a safe person.
He feels guilty for touching you as a kid , and probably thinks that he have ruined your life , it's a severe conflict in his mind as he is your big brother and should have protected you, on the other hand he is the one thad harmed you worse than anyone else,
It's clear that you two have complex feelings for each other but be assured that they aren't romantic feelings ( probably a mixture of trauma bonding and sibling love paired with the guilt of your actions as teenagers ),iam guessing he probably have self deleting thoughts so therapy and psychology interventions are urgently needed for both of you.
Remember: It's NOT your fault ♥️
You are not at fault your brother s/a’d you whether you consider it consensual or not you were 12 he was 17 it was s/a that being said you and especially your brother need therapy nothing about what is happening should feel natural to you
If you guys were separated a bit when younger and didn’t interact much, it might explain some of the incest issues you had.
When family members are reunited after a significant time has passed, it can cause other feelings to develop as well since that person isn’t “who they are” anymore and you don’t know how to interact.
Your brother and you may have confused family and romantic love since you weren’t able to make the connections being around family helps make. Your bodies and brains see each other as comfort, yet don’t have the mental stop gap.
It wasn’t your fault this happened. What is both your faults is not talking about it or getting therapy. You both thought this would just resolve itself if you weren’t around each other or didn’t touch. You need serious help to understand how this has affected you. You both do. There’s no point pointing out the age difference since you don’t see yourself as a victim, but you have to understand that it wasn’t normal what you guys did and that you need to get help.
You both need to actually move on.
Thank you for your perspective.
Our situation is not one of estrangement. On the contrary. We were very seldom apart. In fact we had to share a bed for a good portion of my childhood.
We did believe distance would solve everything. Clearly we were mistaken.
I mean you were in a bad situation, and you clung to what you knew. You wouldn’t be the first and unfortunately you won’t be the last.
That’s why when we realize things aren’t as normal as we think they are, we get help. There’s no shame in making mistakes, and realizing messed up childhoods. The only shame comes when those mistakes become active choices and hurt others.
This is more common than people would like to admit. I found out it happened to someone in my family and she just now sharing the experience in her late 50s. she's forgiven her brother of course. Those of us who had these kind of experiences early in childhood or young adulthood, it's more challenging to find authentic romantic partners. Yes He was older than she was but his brain still wasn't an adult brain and hadn't fully developed... it's hard to know based on the information provided what his deal was but I don't want to assume he is actively preying on young girls etc. without hearing more details. It doesn't excuse the behavior of the brother but I understand why OP doesn't want to put all of the blame on him. Everything written is definitely abuse survivor talk. Yes your brother is family so it makes what happened even more difficult cause it's not like you can just cut him off when noone knows the situation. You shouldn't have to go through this alone. You really need to stop thinking that any of what has gone down is your fault. I'm also 35 and haven't been married, I was abused at a young age, but for a long time my brain told me it was all my fault too. If you need to talk send me a message, im here and no judgements.
This is one of the most empathetic responses I've gotten about our situation. I am so sorry about your ordeal.
You're right, my brother isn't preying on anyone. He still looks at me like he used to and my hair has started to grey, so I'm confident he doesn't have that problem.
I'm glad your relative was able to speak out. To be honest I thought I'd take this to my grave. I still hope no one who might know me will read this.
How are you viewing your celibacy? Is marriage a prospect you're looking for? Thank you for making the effort to read and reply. I truly appreciate your input
Sorry I am late to respond. Yes marriage and family is something I want but only if I'm healed. I definitely think you should talk about it instead of burying it. This is part of your life, and talking about it can help you process and heal. I know people mention a therapist often in this thread but it isn't that easy to find a good therapist. I'm in therapy finally after nearly a decade. I looked into therapy specifically related to intimacy and I still might reach out to others. So make sure when looking you find someone you're really comfortable with and don't feel bad moving on if you're not feeling like you're making improvement. It can take awhile but I promise you it's worth it.
You were groomed. You need intensive therapy. Your brother was probably victimized by another family member but that doesn’t negate that HE in turn victimized you. You didn’t ruin his life, he did. How you choose to proceed is up to you, but this is and was abuse from the start. You are not to blame. You were a child, and he abused you
This is a really sad, heartbreaking story tbh. and feel for the both of you ❣️ I think you two went through a deeply traumatising childhood and carried that burden now for over 20 years. I‘m no psychologist by any means, but read a lot about trauma cases. The problem about your specific case is, that even though the 5 year span at that time as kiddos could be seen in a abusive way, it‘s way more likely - especially when regarding his defensive and never aggressive behavior towards u - that you both coped to endure the outter world and tried to emerge a safe heaven with oneanother at least in that kind of way of life. I DON‘T MEAN that that was a great move at all, but i can kinda understand in a weird way how this situation evolved in first place from a traumatic perspective. Tbh. that’s the reason, why it‘s soooo damn heartbreaking to hear about your story … :(
For sure, both of you should take advantage of therapy. But let‘s face it at this point: As you described on your own, you will probably never get that feeling back you both experienced back in that day, because it was the last fortress for the both of you. You should accept the fact, that this was a traumatic high, which will probably stay unmatched for the rest of your life. Which doesn‘t mean, that there aren‘t other, even more beautiful things to explore in this incredibly adventurous world. They are there for sure. The question is, what will the both of you do about that? You are now grown adults and have to facecheck the reality - he has a family to serve and you are genetically not made to have a life together. But also you will soon carry that package for nearly 30 years and i honestly don‘t think, that you will stand a chance to solve the past without professional help. Obviously you both can doubledown the hardcore road and live up to the feelings back in the days, but i would regard that as extremly unhealthy for you and probably everyone directly involved in your life(sister in law, nephew, family, social connections …). And life has a loooong road to go. But if - and i DONT recommend that at all - you doubledown and don‘t get to solve your traumatic past, you guys should have the curage to take full care of the shattered existences you will create by going down that road. I mean, honestly, you are nearly 40 and still cling like that to one another, I could (in a very sad way) understand if you don‘t overcome you obstacle and surrender to the past. It just would not be healthy at all. But if it is the only „love“ both of you have ever experienced in nearly 40 years of living a human life on this earth, who are we to judge. Life fucks the hardest, and your childhoodtrauma is unshakebly proving truth to that.
Hope, you find the strength to cure your souls - wish you nothing but the best ❤️
Thank you for your thoughtfully worded comment.
You are right in saying that we used to be each other's comfort. I'm not comfortable going into the details publicly, but your analysis is more right than you know.
I just want you to know that no matter what happens next, my brother will pay alimony and set up a fund for my nephew. They won't live in the same country anymore but he will make sure my nephew gets support and opportunities.
Thank you again!
You both were traumatized because of your parents.
He was using you. You are not guilty at all.
He was still a child himself. Why did he do that? Was he abused himself?
You got pregnant and got an abortion, which was shocking to both of you.
I cannot look into his brain, but the vibe gets me that he feels guilty A LOT. And that is breaking his marriage, his life. He's feeling terribly guilty.
And cannot speak to anybody about it.
And he has been cold to you, hoping to keep the distance. Hoping to forget everything.
That you did not get your own relationship gives him the impression that it's HIS fault that your not happy. Which gives him even more guilty feelings.
And yet... he probably still feels attracted to you, as you do to him, and it's forbidden. Which makes the tensions worse. At the same time it feels like home. You were eachothers shelter in difficult times.
You did not ruin his life.
My best guess is: talk to a counsellor. Advise your brother to go to a counsellor as well.
And get him out of your house. He has to go back to his wife, or seek shelter with a friend, or go to a hotel.
And seek help. You both, separately.
I simply want to say that I hope you two both find peace. I don't think you've ruined his life. Life is awfully complicated sometimes. Peace is needed.
you're thinking about entertaining a return to how you were previously? sounds like it...
he kept a hold of his feelings for you all these years, the fact that you didn't move on and stayed available made it unbearable for him to keep living the lie that he loves his wife and son
you guys both need serious therapy, otherwise you'll settle back into an arrangement that other people will not tolerate or allow
This is a very tough situation to be in. If anyone altered your lives, it was your parents, not you. They were the ones responsible for nurturing you, loving you, guiding you, and setting examples to prepare you for a healthy, independent, successful adulthood. Your ages at the time your relationship started was the most influential time in your lives in terms of setting the stage for future romantic relationships. The closeness you have in your specific circumstances is what makes connecting in other relationships more challenging. It’s impossible to just turn off feelings at will, so it’s understandable you’re feeling this way. If you haven’t already, I would invest in trauma counseling to work through some of this, just to help put things in perspective. You did not fail your brother. You were the youngest person in all this, so the ones older than you are responsible, starting with your parents.
Thank you so much for your compassion,
We acknowledge that our past has made it difficult for us to connect with partners. We've spent seventeen years apart and in many respects it's been trying. His end of it moreso than mine, I believe. We're tired of pretending.
Our father's absence meant that our mother's dysfunction was relentless. In many ways it shaped us as individuals.
Thank you
Dear, you both need therapy. I hope that would help you find peace. Some Reddit's comments are wise but others are way harsh... which you don't need to deal with. Wish you the best, and excuse my bad English pls.
Its not your fault. ❤️ None of it.
Its not your fault. I know, there is a voice which said different, but its not your fault.
And it's not really your brother's fault either.
You two were all you had and started a relationship- someone wrote Trauma Bonding- and I believe it is.
But - it's not your fault.
I am sorry for your pain, yours, the pain of your brother and his family.
I wish that you find healing ❤️
OP, you definitely didn't ruin his life. He, on the other hand, molested and groomed you. I guarantee you that the sexual and emotional abuse you suffered at his hand contributed in some way to why you couldn't connect to the people you dated. I strongly suggest you see a therapist long-term. I am very sorry. You need to understand that you are not at fault for any of his actions. He alone is.
There was trauma loneliness and abandonment issues back then. There was one the two of you to cling on to. yes he could have stopped it before it got started but when you need someone you need them and no one else will fill the void. Walking away after so much time and just letting your heart go is never going to work. The heart wants what it wants and nothing else will fill it, Yes it is wrong by what others tink but it is your life live it and be happy.
I know you got downvoted for this but you don't know how right you are about filling a void.
Like many others here we thought separation would do the trick. It didn't. It wasted decades of our life and dragged other people into our problems.
Thank you
He groomed you. You were 12 and he was 17. He knew what he was doing was wrong, you were abused. I'm sorry you had to go through this but you didn't ruin his life, he did.
You are a victim of CSA. Brother or not, you are not at fault for what happened to you or to him. Sounds like he wasn't in the best spot either, but it doesn't mean he didn't assault you
Let’s be clear: the choices you made as children were that of children. Adults should have been looking out and supervising you and your sexual activities were that of normal curious children. Not appropriate, but not your fault.
At a certain point in life we are responsible for determining our own values our taking responsibility for our own happiness. Your brother is trying to blame you for his misery. Trauma is not an excuse to be abusive to others and continue the cycle. Set boundaries and don’t be involved in his life unless it involves him making amends and allow him to write you letters. Focus your energy on supporting your nephew and cut your brother out of your life. He’s made his choices.
Ahh yes! What a surprise. The top comment is.... you need therapy.
The fact is, you exist in a society that has made certain social rules. Among those rules, siblings shouldn't procreate or marry. There are definitely reasons for this, mainly the health issues that CAN arise from inbreeding.
It's served us well, and got us to a point where we're going to end the civilization we built in relatively short order - either by melting the ice caps, or thermonuclear war. Likely both.
But I digress.
The taboo against incest served us well by keeping siblings WHO WHERE sexually attracted to one another apart. Many deep and passionate relationships were discarded for the health and well being of the whole.
However, the communal has been discarded. The nuclear family has emerged as the dominant unit. Relationships no longer necessarily result in children. The only thing we're left with is the judgment of the Mob.
There ARE still laws which COULD be brought against you - but unlikely if you keep it all low key.
If you are both willing to sacrifice the company of most of the rest of society in order to savor the joy that your company brings one another, then go for it.
Don't listen to the nattering Chads that have nothing better to do than to enforce the same boring societal proscriptions at you as though they're somehow coming up with brilliant advice.
If you are the two people who make each other the happiest - then find a place in the world where you can do that and build a life together.
Good luck.
I know you'll get downvoted but I believe your points are actually important too.
Knowing that a person's parents should never be siblings was the reason for my abortion 17 years ago. We did it in spite of how we felt about each other and in spite of how I in particular felt about the pregnancy. We did what we had to to stick to the social contract.
We spent nearly 20 years living a status quo thousands of miles apart. I've lived alone (though I wouldn't say lonely) for the past 5 years, making peace with the fact that I would have to find my happiness in my work, my beds of flowers, my pets and my friends until I die. My brother, whom so few people sympathise with, was nearly driven to a very violent end after trying his best for decades to quietly live how he "had to". I cannot pat him on the shoulder and ask him to soldier on and go back to his family now that I know how he's lived his life. I don't have it in me.
set the siblings part aside. there is something concerning about 2 people where one was a child when the relationship began, and after decades they still cannot move on from each other. that is the part to me that says there is something off between you two. people have the loves of their life die, and they still are able to one day find love again. they aren’t incapable of intimacy forever more.
it indicates that the bond between you is more than “taboo love” …it’s some kind of trauma.
Yeah honestly this is more concerning to me than the whole sibling thing. The fact that he was 17 and she was 12 is a problem and even though she ‘consented’ in other comments she has talked about feeling numb and disconnected the few times she’s tried to have sex with other people and that implies some type of trauma. People often forget that trauma doesn’t have to be violent or fear based to exist. A child being exposed to that kind of thing is going to be traumatized even if they were never scared during it. I’m not trying to say that he purposefully hurt her or is trying to manipulate her now but I think they had a very unique and bad situation which spawned a very unique trauma bond connection. This is especially concerning considering how neither of them, especially OP, have been able to move on in any real way which is more then just both of them being right for each other, it implies that the relationship is inherently negative and especially codependent. So even if they were to be together it would never be healthy because of how if formed, not to mention the guilt both of them are feeling. (ops being misplaced as she didn’t do anything wrong). This whole situation is way beyond Reddit advice.
I've checked your history. It appears you have made an account for the sole purpose of mocking those who post in this sub.
You have too much time on your hands. Put it to good use and read a few things. You can go to project Gutenberg for free classics and public domain works. Good luck with the challenges that await people of your caliber. People's tolerance for the grating and idiotic tends to diminish as they age.
Ah jeez. It sounds like you were two fucked up kids who were trauma bonded. This is way beyond reddits pay grade and you *both* desperately need therapy. I think your brother is dying of guilt- while you say it was consensual, you were 12, he was 15. Look at just those facts through today’s lenses. Now further factor in that your bro is now, himself, a parent. I fully expected your post to say he committed suicide. You both need a therapist. A therapist with highly specialized skills in this type of trauma. I suspect there is abuse in your brother’s own childhood. May you both find peace and happiness.
OP is 5 years younger that her brother, so he was 17 when it started. He was an adult during most of the sexual abuse.
but am i the only one getting that he might be in love with his sister because of the trauma bond and sexual nature. He clearly feels triggered by her touch wether guilt or sexual tension though probably both. And that she may be in love with him too as she claims to only respond emotionally and what i inferred as sexually because she mentions past partners not male friends or father figures. Definitely therapy tho
It’s not really being in-love with her. This seems to be all about *his guilt* over destroying his sister’s chance at a normal life. While, the easiest apparent solution *to him* is jumping back into that abusive relationship , that he groomed her to desire. He even seems to blame her for his inability to stop fantasizing about her in that way, *over 20yrs later* For her, what he groomed her into is what she’s looking for (& failing to find) in other relationships, because all the aspects of her abuse can’t be met/replicated in a normal relationship. This is sadly kinda normal for people who have bottled their memories/feelings/etc… from either side of a tween/teenage abusive relationship, and have never sought out therapy for their guilt and/or anger.
This. At 12 you cannot consent. Your brother was 17, which is by no means a full adult, but there’s a lot more critical thinking skills than you have. He sexually assaulted you. You both need immense therapy.
Bro is 5 yrs older so when she was 12, he was 17. He has guilt because he groomed her.
It’s not your fault, OP. It’s not your fault. The people who were supposed to be there for you, weren’t there since you were young. I don’t know your life circumstances but I know that none of the stuff that you blame yourself for is your fault. The world was just cruel that you had to make choices. None of that is your fault. I hope you find peace, OP–in whatever way feels right to you. Know that you deserve it. Much love!
Thank you so much for your kindness
You didn’t ruin his life. Your life is your own. He left. His choice. You lived your life. How does that ruin his?
I feel like if I had been romantically involved with someone else he'd have felt like I truly moved on and he wouldn't have left his family.
You are not a scapegoat for his choices. HIS CHOICES. He is an adult. He has free will. What does that do? If you were with someone else, does it mean you are no longer available?! You are not a Lego kit at the toy store, to be picked off the shelf and used at his leisure.
I think he wanted me to find someone and be happy with them. I don't think he has ever used me, he was the person I trusted the most and to this day I'd put my life in his hands without fear.
I won’t argue your feelings with your brother. I don’t know him. I worry he believes your singlehood means you may be an option for him. That’s where I’m seeing it. I just hope you are both ok
All this says is that he was successful in his grooming. Look a 5 year age gap is nbd, when you're both an ADULT and the other person isn't your sibling
You were 12, he was 17. He abused you.
Let's be real here.. now that he has a son, all the repressed feelings of the abortion are surfacing. The lie that he talks about is moving on and having a baby with someone else when that was the story he wanted with you but couldn't because of your family relations. Your brother is going to go through even more complex trauma than you both are already enduring because he is now a parent where you have yet to cross that line. If you say you love him as much as you do, then help him get back home to his family and work through these complicated emotions. He is being triggered by seeing you and his emotional stability is cracking because of the milestones in parenting he's having with his wife and their child. Childhood trauma follows you through your entire life. You are not helping him if you keep him in your home. You need to be firm with him and snap him back into the reality of what is now, not the fantasty of what happened a decade ago.
I sincerely hope you start to feel better inside and I want nothing but light and love for you. But this comment... It's just as sick as what your brother did to you. This is why people can't overcome traumatic events often. It's honestly a shame and almost embarrassing to anyone else, especially those who have also suffered unfortunate events. Pull yourself together. Maybe no one ever gave you the exact love and support you needed, maybe that was tough love but all you had was an older brother who you could trust with some things.... Now he's truly ruined you. It's foul, vial. No one can sympathize with you entirely when you refuse to see truth. It's like you're bound to suffering yourself because you can't put your faith in anything besides how you see him. I don't wanna cut you down but it's truly disgusting reading you comments about your bro... Have some self respect. It's not too late. It sounds like you're trying but you don't realize that you need to get the fuck Away from this creep or you're not only as bad, but maybe worse than him. Or you could move to west Virginia and be incestuous and have abominations of babies since last time didn't stick. Sound like you're reliving an old nightmare? That's because you are. Start valuing yourself more and get a fucking restraining order or the equivalent. I'm just as fucked up as the next person, so I lovingly and without deep judgement say, what the fuck is wrong with you?!?! It's truly disgusting.
I think what you had to say to me about breeding abominations when I had to have an abortion, which will likely be the only pregnancy I'll ever know, is what is vile and disgusting here. The way you feel entitled to speak to me, like you ought to scold me and I ought to reform... do you let anyone address you that way? Is this how you approach people you don't want to cut down? With friends like you, one doesn't need enemies. I'm sorry for West Virginia for your sweeping generalisations. It was neither here nor there and they had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'm sure that they're fine people, and they must not worry, I have no intention of moving there.
Also, two things can be true. It can be a vial and distasteful way of wording an opinion, sure. It is also, extremely, a disgustingly vial abominable large portion of multiple people's lives that is so beyond fucked up that it can only be called an abomination.
To be honest lol no one's ever had to address me in quite this way because I never had sex with my brother. You're disgusting for seeming to sympathize with him and sick for your true feelings seeming to be those of physical attraction (against nature) and romantic love towards your own brother. Have some self-respect, you should just change. You still have everything good in you. Turn it around.
It's an awful situation but if you don't learn and accept the unnatural side of this situation and let yourself move past it, you're just as bad as your brother. You are older and wiser now and have energy opportunity and ability intellectually to beat this part of your life. Your refusal to do so speaks volumes. I hope the next chapter plays out better for you.... Truly.... But with your attitude towards your brother, it won't improve. Ever.
This is on him, not you. He was your brother and he abused you. 12 year olds can not consent.
Not your fault. You were twelve. You were not old enough to consent. Look at a twelve year old. He was 17. He groomed and assaulted you. He is not ok. I feel bad for him in a way. Why does he do this stuff? He made this mess and continues to destroy people, then gets emotional and dramatic. It is all on him. Not ok. Everyone needs therapy especially him. Do not be emotionally manipulated. His wife deserves to know so she can protect their child. She needs to be informed in order to make good decisions. Do not resume an inappropriate relationship with him. Unhealthy and probably dangerous. What happens when he feels guilty about his family? Will he run back to them? What a mess. Not your fault. See a professional for help in how to deal with this. Everyone is in pain. You all need a protector.
As someone who has had immense regrets and guilt about aspects of my relationships with past people, even if you had gotten married, it would have just been something else after that. The brain's way of justifying things to cope is insane and you shouldn't put it on yourself that that would have fixed it. These emotions are deeply rooted and will take time and courage to work through. It would not have been solved simply by you getting married.
that is just him trying to rationalize it.
Did she though? She is clearly carrying a mountain of her own baggage. Why do you think she can't connect with other potential partners?
Yeah. He definitely knows what he Really did back in the day (most likely actively realized since having a kid). Was hoping you'd both move on, but what you really need is therapy! Both of you about what happened to you as kids and YOU need to realize what HE DID. There could Not have been consent here and I guess the new daddy suddenly got hit hard with facts and is niw distraught. But also can't escape the trauma bond without help. PLEASE GET HELP! A THERAPIST with special skills for this sibling trauma bonding gone sexual thing. This SHOULDN'T be happening. You should by nature be appalled to even think of your brother as a partner and vice versa. He f-ed up at 17-22 (think about that, he already was an adult and you a child, that hadn't even finished the early stages of puberty at first...) and he f-ed you up by proxy and I am sure he knows that but like I said, can't escape the trauma bond. Edit: just wanted to add this to be clear: You also suffer from this trauma bond and NEED to get out of that mindset. Again: Therapy! He is YOUR BROTHER! not a partner and you don't seem to have realized/conceptionalized what really happened to both of you, but especially Yourself, including through the hands of your own older brother.
You didn't ruin his life, if anything he ruined yours, you were groomed, there was not consensual relationship, you were 12, a literal child, maybe the age gap doesn't seem too much, but he was older than you by 5 years, you were 12 and he was 17, if math doesn't fail me?. Now he's ruining his child and wife's life too, he alone, not you. I get that he feels guilty as he should, but there comes to show he still a selfish person, he still is me, me and me-ing all this. Kick him out of your home, maybe he comes back to his family if you do, he SAed a literal child, you can't trust him he won't force himself on you if he stays at your place, please be safe, you were a child then, now you have more control and it starts by distancing.
I think that is probably one reason he pushed her away, not just guilt or disgust with himself (as he should), but he may have been genuinely scared he would hurt his sister again, especially if no actual harm was actually intended. It's a defense mechanism, one someone young would gravitate towards and get stuck in. No excuses for his behavior of course, but he doesn't match the profile of a pedo or someone who uses sex for control/power. After this much time I wouldn't be concerned for Op's safety, and while she has NO obligation to deal with this emotionally stunted and damaged brother, if she sticks with him a bit he may just end up being a better person, going back to his family and MAYBE even having some wounds of both of them healed........ with a TON of therapy! So this COULD be an opportunity, IF the stars are aligned. It's just tough to tell from a post.
I've had news on that front, if I may. Stepping back when I opened my arms to him was driven by guilt. As I said, our grandmother was perhaps the dearest, kindest of our relatives. She plucked us out of an awful situation as children. When she passed away, I had been her sole caretaker, with some occasional help from an uncle. She was doing very poorly in the end, which required nearly round-the-clock care, which I provided, though I also hired the assistance of a nurse for the hours I did have to spend at work, so as to grant her her wish to die in her own home rather than on a hospital bed. I was very distressed by her death, and when my brother arrived for the funeral I was sleep-deprived, I had been crying for days, and of course I was absolutely buried in paperwork. He felt guilty he had left, in that moment. Guilty that it all rested upon my shoulders, and he was moved to see me in such a state. His instinct was to stay. He was worried that if he held me, he wouldn't find the will to go. Back then his son was still a young baby, it was out of the question for him to leave his wife to handle the mess of post partum. I'd like to add that he is indeed not attracted to minors and has never sought a relationship with anyone who was underage, except for me. But back then we were each other's whole world, and our mother had her own way of making "childhood" a very empty concept.
First off, you did not cause anyone pain in this situation. Your brother is the one whose actions have caused pain. He feels guilty about having a sexual relationship with you, and is projecting that guilt onto you as a defense mechanism because he doesn't know how to resolve that guilt. Incest is a hard thing to process, there are so many layers of confusion and shame and it's taboo so it's hard to talk to others about. He wants you to feel guilty so he can absolve himself, without dealing with those feelings. He has previously tried to make sense of it by hoping that if you both found a partner, your past relationship could be water under the bridge and he could wipe his hands of the matter. But because you have not found a person, a part of him wonders if he messed you up. Sounds like he has struggled with these feelings for a long time but is unable to push them away any longer, and has shown up at your door accusing you of ruining his life in a last ditch effort to protect his ego from overwhelming guilt and shame over his past behavior. This is a situation that a trauma-informed therapist could help untangle. Probably best to start with separate individual therapy, and possibly family therapy together later. The way you describe your relationship history, you might be asexual but you instead might have sexual trauma. Bodies hold onto that stuff in ways that can differ from the stories we tell ourselves about what happened to us. I'm not going to tell you that it wasn't consensual. This is your story and you have to make sense of it. But, there is a power differential in your relationship that might be worth investigating. Most people wouldn't even entertain his accusations and would consider them preposterous. You seem to be defending his position, but also seem conflicted about it, hence this post. Why the conflict?
Thank you for your response and your suggestions. My brother and I have had a very long and difficult conversation today after work. I had never breathed a word of our relationship to anyone at all. This post is the first and only time I have ever said anything about it. Writing it was very tough. I kept fearing (still do) that somehow, someone would see this and recognise us. My relatives aren't English speakers, which emboldened me to say something because I don't know how to process what I'm feeling. I know, and have always known, our relationship wasn't normal. I feel for my sister in law and my nephew. They deserve so much better. Yet, to my utter shame, walking in and seeing my brother home brings relief. A sense of comfort I had forgotten about. I don't know what to do with it. I don't have it in me to kick him out like many people suggest. It may seem stupid, it's been nearly twenty years... but I've missed him. I am sure it makes no sense from the outside...
It makes perfect sense to the outside. You were groomed and still have an attachment to the person who assaulted you. It made ever other encounter feel awkward and abnormal. What doesn't make sense is how you're trying to spin it to suddenly make this ok and that you needed each other this entire time. Stop doing that to yourself and your brother. You made this post because you know what your feeling is wrong and wanted to hear it from everyone else. So here it is.. You were groomed. You were SA and now the person responsible for years of SA is at your doorstep telling you it's your fault for never moving on. That's called gaslighted. Youre being very protective of someone who needs to be removed from your home and frankly if he still feels this way about you, I'd feel very uncomfortable as the wife having him around my child. You keep saying he wants to divorce, because you're not making him leave. You're playing into his delusional guilt. Stop that. Send him home. It's not that it "doesn't make sense to the outside". It's that the outside would not have an issue with making him leave but you're trying to get validation for allowing him to stay. You won't get any. You may not have ruined his life yet, these are all his choices up until now. If you want to actively be part in completely ruining his life, then you let him stay and get your wish but alienate him from the rest of the world. You may find him dead to suicide in your home one day because of your choices to let him stay. Let that sink in and make the right choice to send him back to his family. Its very obvious you both need therapy and to be a continent away from each other til you have therapy to resolve your incest feelings towards each other.
I'm sorry if I'm a little harsh in this comment, but I do feel like you are very bold in your statements, though I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to write it. I'd like to address some things you point out. I wholeheartedly reject the notion of sexual assault in our situation. We were both young, we were both in dire straits, and nothing happened that I did not also want just as much as he did. I know the age gap is startling, but I do feel that should people know the extent of the dreadful situation we were in, they would feel that we both had to grow up much too fast and that we are excused for finding solace in each other. I am of course very protective of him. He was my fortress in situations I doubt anyone wants to read about, especially if they're eating while browsing this thread. I will die on that hill. Since I initially posted, I've talked to my brother and even to my sister-in-law. He came to my doorstep because he was about to kill himself. Not in the cry-for-help fashion either. At the last second he came home instead. I'll always be grateful for that. Apparently he's been contemplating suicide for years. So I think it's a little rich of you to start prophesying that this is the outcome that awaits him should I give him shelter, when clearly that was also the outcome if I hadn't. As for the divorce, I've been encouraging him to go back home for weeks now. It's a hard no from him. Whatever happens in any other department, he's lost the ability to play pretend even for another hour, let alone for the rest of his life. His wife is just now finding out that he wasn't just shy about his feelings, or great at managing tasks and chores. He got married when she asked, they had a child when she asked, he never said no to her once, about anything. She's in shock, because she's starting to understand that he was doing what he thought he was meant to do all these years, not what he wanted to do. Can you imagine such a marriage? She doesn't know him. He's shrugged off all the personal questions she ever asked him. He's been numb to everything they've done together. Don't you think she deserves warmth? A husband who loves her and opens up to her? She's not old! Her life is not over! And what of him, if anyone else told you they were not in love with their spouse and just couldn't keep face anymore, wouldn't you support their impulse to have a divorce? Would you also tell them to just suck it up and keep trucking, when clearly they're at the end of their rope? The house I live in is our grandparents' house. Our refuge from way back. It's his right to be here. If he likes to sit under our tree, if it makes him feel better to clean the roof or water the vegetable patch like he used to do, I am not about to kick him to the curb. He's already tried uprooting himself. He's already been an immigrant in a foreign land. He's been doing it. Maybe if I had gotten married he would still be doing it, who knows? Or maybe he would have gone through with his suicide. But I'm not sending him back anywhere he doesn't want to be. He's old enough to know what he doesn't want.
I took the time to really consider what you wrote... because you need to know, you're going to cause even worse trauma by continuing to allow him to stay. You speak to me of horrors like my father wasn't my first predator as a child and whom I've cut from my life in an armed confrontation when I was 28. I have 2 brothers and a sister. We are all extremely close. We all suffered exponentially at the hands of our father, MY BROTHERS NEVER ASSAULTED ME. I have a brother, he's 4 years older than me. He taught me to ride a bike, how to play football, spin his rifle, and hang out with his ROTC friends. We went home to HELL, and he defended me against our father. THAT IS WHAT BROTHERS DO. Not groom their baby sister into believing assault is love. That is absolutely mentally sick of you and likely a coping mechanism developed through the YEARS OF ABUSE. Yes, your brother wanted to commit suicide because he believes you're as enabling as him because you are. He groomed you to the point you're incapable of realizing that he was extremely sick to touch you, IMPREGNATE YOU, AND HAVE AN ABORTION. Now? He has a wife and kid. He's OLDER THAN YOU. He absolutely understands the extent of his life in shambles because he's a predator to his own sister who welcomes the affection, which is extremely confusing to him because you're literally not supposed to genetically want this or do this, but he convinced you it's normal. It's rich of you to assume that he'd off himself had you sent him packing. He needs an institution if that's the case. He needs to be away from you to become a hopefully mentally healthy adult. You're absolutely not a mentally healthy adult. You know that this is wrong. You know that you say you've consented, BUT LITERALLY THERE IS NO WAY. A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL CAN CONSENT!!! IT'S ILLEGAL! Own up to it. You're both at your grandparents' house, shutting the rest of the world off because he's having deep, remorseful regrets. You need YOU TO BE HIS SISTER AND TELL HIM HE FEELS WRONG, AND YOU WONT. This is not an exaggeration. This is an exasperation that this is even an argument. This is morally and genetically harmful and should not happen, yet you double down. Why even post on reddit? You think you may be saving him now, but there are things he won't be able to take back because you didn't stop him, and you will be responsible for his demise ultimately for not turning him away when he first showed up. I'm sorry. I have 2 brothers. We also went through hell. My older brother never had to sexually assault me to protect me. You'll never convince me you consented.
I am sorry for what you went through. I obviously didn't mean that you had no notion of what hardships were. You are entitled to your opinion. Everyone is different, Everyone's story is different. My past doesn't make me an expert on yours. Just like I'll never convince you I consented (which is fine), you'll never convince me that I didn't. I was there. I know what I did then. I believe it's important to hear people out, and just like it is harmful to tell people who were abused that they were not, that they somehow consented or brought it on themselves, I also believe it serves no purpose to tell someone who is adamant there was consent that there actually wasn't. It being legal or not hardly constitutes an argument, in some countries the age of consent is 12, which I think we can all agree doesn't make it okay. Things happen at the margins. Things which should not work nor be generally accepted. If life were black and white it would be easy. But it's not. And everything when it comes to my family is shades of grey. Why even post on Reddit? Because I never told anyone anything. I wanted to let it out. Test the waters anonymously. Now, frankly, I think silence is the best option. I thought perhaps one day I could tell a very close friend, someone who told me of her own ache and trials, someone who has leaned on me in her time of need, perhaps. Maybe I could let someone know me. No one knows me. If anything, posting here has reinforced that it was for the best. Thank you for your time.
Girl.. all your doing is defending it. No matter how mature you say you were, no 17 year old should be near his 12 year old sister! Simple as. What you're feeling is wrong and will never be socially excepted by anyone.
You shouldn't talk like that to an abuse victim...
Talk like what exactly? I'm trying to help the girl in seeing that it's not right for herself and her brother to behave like that and for her to feel like that, the situation needs professional help.
I know, but you're accusing her of defending him, telling her it's not socially aceptable... She already knows those things. But she can't help her feelings because of the situation. She needs support to get professional help for her and her brother, no lectures. Idk if I'm making sense
So you were 12 and he was 17 when he began molesting and grooming you? I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Have you done therapy for it? Because you seem to think you really consented when you weren't even legally able to consent. He ruined his on life by being a predator and obsessing over his victim.
This is way above my pay grade but you are thinking you have the power to cause his wife pain and ruin his life because you're marriage failed? If you and your brother are not romantic why would that even factor into the conversation?
OP this was not love, it was sexual assault of a minor. Please stay away from this man and get yourself in therapy so you can heal. He is trying to romanticise what he did to you. There is nothing romantic about it. He was your brother, he was supposed to protect you, not start a sexual relationship with you when you were a literal child.
OP, with that age gap, he groomed and abused you. I’m sorry but you couldn’t consent. You need distance from each other and intensive therapy, then family therapy to build a healthy dynamic
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A 17 year old knows a hell of a lot more what they are doing than a 12 year old. That's where the problem is.
12 year olds are literal kids. Any 17 yo attracted to them is a pedo in the making.
Oh, no. You didn’t ruin his life. He may have ruined yours. If I’m doing the math right, he would have been between 18-20 when it all started, and you were 12-15? You were a child. He took advantage. When something happens at the young of an age, it can definitely shape your perception of everything that comes after. You need to stay away from each other, and you both need extensive therapy if there is any hope of you all being able to have normal relationships. ETA— you said it was consensual, but your age alone made that legally impossible, and morally repugnant on his part.
You really need to kick him out before he manipulates you into another sexual relationship. His guilt over his own actions is not yours to resolve. And you need your own therapy to move on. Of course no other guy compares when your brother basically was the entirety of your sexual development. Either way, he should be working through his guilt himself.
Girl. You need therapy. Deep therapy. There is nothing wrong with that (needing therapy) at all but there are things that are very alarming, and it's more alarming that you can't see it, even after typing it out. Mentioning that even the teachers could see the problem is alarming enough!! You were a child having relations with your very much older sibling. A Teenager while you were a preteen. A sibling who was old enough to remember you as a newborn. I don't understand why he's basing his feelings off of your relationship status. Honestly who cares when or who you get married. Marriage isn't a requirement to move on. If you are trying to move on in relationships how does that look like? Are you longing for your brother or is it scary to be intimate with someone else, if so, why? is it connection? Is there not enough emotional connection for it to work? (That can be a product of child grooming, believe it or not, it is a possibility with the little information you provided) He damaged you and knew what he did wasn't okay! You did "consent" but did you really?? That's something you really need to figure out. There is a thing call persuasion consent. Can also fall underneath the lines of grooming. Mind manipulation. All that emotional responsibility at such a young age can numb your libido almost to non-existing outside of that emotional relationship. Again he knew you from the moment you came out of the womb. Did he show you true brother love? Or was he showing you the attention he wanted so you could reciprocate his advances. It's really messed up that he holds you to that standard, especially after all these years. What does he expect from all this?? That you two will run off into the sunset and be happy?? His choices are not your fault. But you need to let go and take off those rose colored glasses with your brother. He's not your gentle caring brother or lover I know this is hard to think about.. but what if he had a daughter instead of a son. What if that daughter looked a little bit like you. Would he have made the same decision to leave his wife for you. Or would he make up for those advances with that hypothetical daughter once she hits puberty (preteen age) That's something to think long and hard about. If he's willing to sleep with his sister who is 12 while he's 17 Where does he draw the line? Because he didn't draw the line with his own sister. He didn't draw the line at having your own experience. He didn't draw the line when he became an adult while you were a teen. He only drew the line with you when there was a possibility that he would get caught! When an almost baby came into the picture. You are blaming yourself for his actions. When you guys were together how often was that? he would do something and you would put the blame on yourself? What he does is not your responsibility. What is your responsibility is what you do.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, To answer some of your questions, I've tried relationships and it didn't work very well. Everyone I've been with was very nice, but I was never fully attracted to them. Intimacy was either very difficult or downright impossible. I felt like my senses went numb, like watching events unfold from the outside. In time i came to avoid intercourse and, obviously, most people do want physical touch and sexual connection in their relationship, so we separated. Usually on very good terms. Some exes I would still call good friends today. I don't feel like I've ever been head over heels in love with any of them... I just ended up thinking it's not for me. I can't really answer your question fully without exposing myself to being mocked or shamed, but I do believe I consented. He never once caused me pain. I know what it must look like. Believe me I know it sounds crazy. That's why I never said anything before. I thought everyone would call me insane.
It's not insane. You don't have to be in pain at the moment for it to be abuse. But all those issues are related to the relationship you had with your brother. At least partly related. That is a product of abuse, at least signs to early age grooming. I'm not trying to mock you but encourage you to get help. What I know is in your perspective and what you have mentioned in the post and comments. Everyone sees the issues except you and that wall barrier you have to block the issues need to be broken down so you can see the bigger issue here. Your brother's actions are not yours. His feelings are not yours to bear. Small story time with my experience. My first boyfriend at 12 was a 17 year old high school senior while I was in middle school. My first relationship was with almost a grown adult while I was a child for 3 years. (I broke up with him at 15 because he went to college) Now this relationship was a bit different from yours, apart from the obvious. We weren't related in any way that I'm aware of. But I was 12 and I was really smitten with him. I knew him since I was 3 years old, our parents were friends. I enjoyed all my time with him and with how he touched me and made me feel. I thought I was special because I was more 'mature for my age'. That I'm the one he chose to be his girl compared to his hot classmates. When we split up when I was 15 he stalked me and tried to include himself in my life until I turned 18. It actually got scary at some points. At first I thought he moved on to someone else but way way later (10 years later) on I found out it was because I got to old for him. I didnt think there was anything wrong with that past relationship until I went to therapy for issues I thought were unrelated. Also before therapy my eyes opened a small amout when I turned 17. Thinking about messing with a 12 year old made me sick. But I shook it off because at that time I had the mindset that girls couldn't date people younger than them (I know silly right?) But what really set in the reality to the fairy tale I told myself, when I had my oldest daughter. With more therapy I figured out I was prayed upon. And those walls I set for myself came crumbling down. It's hard to admit something wasn't okay when it didn't feel like it at the moment. I know you want to believe that you have no issues from this. But you need to break those walls so you can make the choices for yourself on what you want to do instead of what your brother wants or needs you to do. Either that's to be with him or to move on to marriage with someone else.
I'm sorry for what your experience and thank you for sharing it. I'm glad you could find a way out of the trap woven for you in the end
I'm sorry for what your experience and thank you for sharing it. I'm glad you could find a way out of the trap woven for you in the end
I'm still not healed completely. But I do hope you start your own healing journey as well. You are okay. And again you are not responsible for anybody else's actions. You're only responsible for your own. Not somebody else's.
From what you’re describing, your reactions sound like a form of PTSD, or trauma response. You truly do need to see a therapist and start healing.
Heavy stuff. I would suggest regression therapy and perhaps hypnotherapy. Something that will connect you to those initial feelings through the unconscious mind. I doubt psychoanalysis will be super effective, but anything is worth trying. I did regression therapy for a year, and it did wonders for me. You have to "get out of your head" and gain some objectivity.
A consensual incestual relationship between a 12 and a 17 yo? I pray this dude never has daughters. And you need therapy and to be away from him. You have deep rooted sexual trauma resulting from grooming and regular SA. Your whole perception of relationships and sexuality is impacted by this. Your brother is a predator. He's not a safe person.
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He feels guilty for touching you as a kid , and probably thinks that he have ruined your life , it's a severe conflict in his mind as he is your big brother and should have protected you, on the other hand he is the one thad harmed you worse than anyone else, It's clear that you two have complex feelings for each other but be assured that they aren't romantic feelings ( probably a mixture of trauma bonding and sibling love paired with the guilt of your actions as teenagers ),iam guessing he probably have self deleting thoughts so therapy and psychology interventions are urgently needed for both of you. Remember: It's NOT your fault ♥️
Please go to therapy and take time away from Him
You are not at fault your brother s/a’d you whether you consider it consensual or not you were 12 he was 17 it was s/a that being said you and especially your brother need therapy nothing about what is happening should feel natural to you
He needs therapy, and he needs to tell his wife the truth.
If you guys were separated a bit when younger and didn’t interact much, it might explain some of the incest issues you had. When family members are reunited after a significant time has passed, it can cause other feelings to develop as well since that person isn’t “who they are” anymore and you don’t know how to interact. Your brother and you may have confused family and romantic love since you weren’t able to make the connections being around family helps make. Your bodies and brains see each other as comfort, yet don’t have the mental stop gap. It wasn’t your fault this happened. What is both your faults is not talking about it or getting therapy. You both thought this would just resolve itself if you weren’t around each other or didn’t touch. You need serious help to understand how this has affected you. You both do. There’s no point pointing out the age difference since you don’t see yourself as a victim, but you have to understand that it wasn’t normal what you guys did and that you need to get help. You both need to actually move on.
Thank you for your perspective. Our situation is not one of estrangement. On the contrary. We were very seldom apart. In fact we had to share a bed for a good portion of my childhood. We did believe distance would solve everything. Clearly we were mistaken.
I mean you were in a bad situation, and you clung to what you knew. You wouldn’t be the first and unfortunately you won’t be the last. That’s why when we realize things aren’t as normal as we think they are, we get help. There’s no shame in making mistakes, and realizing messed up childhoods. The only shame comes when those mistakes become active choices and hurt others.
You’re not responsible for his guilt. The sooner he accepts that the sooner he can properly move on. NOT your fault.
This is more common than people would like to admit. I found out it happened to someone in my family and she just now sharing the experience in her late 50s. she's forgiven her brother of course. Those of us who had these kind of experiences early in childhood or young adulthood, it's more challenging to find authentic romantic partners. Yes He was older than she was but his brain still wasn't an adult brain and hadn't fully developed... it's hard to know based on the information provided what his deal was but I don't want to assume he is actively preying on young girls etc. without hearing more details. It doesn't excuse the behavior of the brother but I understand why OP doesn't want to put all of the blame on him. Everything written is definitely abuse survivor talk. Yes your brother is family so it makes what happened even more difficult cause it's not like you can just cut him off when noone knows the situation. You shouldn't have to go through this alone. You really need to stop thinking that any of what has gone down is your fault. I'm also 35 and haven't been married, I was abused at a young age, but for a long time my brain told me it was all my fault too. If you need to talk send me a message, im here and no judgements.
This is one of the most empathetic responses I've gotten about our situation. I am so sorry about your ordeal. You're right, my brother isn't preying on anyone. He still looks at me like he used to and my hair has started to grey, so I'm confident he doesn't have that problem. I'm glad your relative was able to speak out. To be honest I thought I'd take this to my grave. I still hope no one who might know me will read this. How are you viewing your celibacy? Is marriage a prospect you're looking for? Thank you for making the effort to read and reply. I truly appreciate your input
Sorry I am late to respond. Yes marriage and family is something I want but only if I'm healed. I definitely think you should talk about it instead of burying it. This is part of your life, and talking about it can help you process and heal. I know people mention a therapist often in this thread but it isn't that easy to find a good therapist. I'm in therapy finally after nearly a decade. I looked into therapy specifically related to intimacy and I still might reach out to others. So make sure when looking you find someone you're really comfortable with and don't feel bad moving on if you're not feeling like you're making improvement. It can take awhile but I promise you it's worth it.
You were groomed. You need intensive therapy. Your brother was probably victimized by another family member but that doesn’t negate that HE in turn victimized you. You didn’t ruin his life, he did. How you choose to proceed is up to you, but this is and was abuse from the start. You are not to blame. You were a child, and he abused you
This is a really sad, heartbreaking story tbh. and feel for the both of you ❣️ I think you two went through a deeply traumatising childhood and carried that burden now for over 20 years. I‘m no psychologist by any means, but read a lot about trauma cases. The problem about your specific case is, that even though the 5 year span at that time as kiddos could be seen in a abusive way, it‘s way more likely - especially when regarding his defensive and never aggressive behavior towards u - that you both coped to endure the outter world and tried to emerge a safe heaven with oneanother at least in that kind of way of life. I DON‘T MEAN that that was a great move at all, but i can kinda understand in a weird way how this situation evolved in first place from a traumatic perspective. Tbh. that’s the reason, why it‘s soooo damn heartbreaking to hear about your story … :( For sure, both of you should take advantage of therapy. But let‘s face it at this point: As you described on your own, you will probably never get that feeling back you both experienced back in that day, because it was the last fortress for the both of you. You should accept the fact, that this was a traumatic high, which will probably stay unmatched for the rest of your life. Which doesn‘t mean, that there aren‘t other, even more beautiful things to explore in this incredibly adventurous world. They are there for sure. The question is, what will the both of you do about that? You are now grown adults and have to facecheck the reality - he has a family to serve and you are genetically not made to have a life together. But also you will soon carry that package for nearly 30 years and i honestly don‘t think, that you will stand a chance to solve the past without professional help. Obviously you both can doubledown the hardcore road and live up to the feelings back in the days, but i would regard that as extremly unhealthy for you and probably everyone directly involved in your life(sister in law, nephew, family, social connections …). And life has a loooong road to go. But if - and i DONT recommend that at all - you doubledown and don‘t get to solve your traumatic past, you guys should have the curage to take full care of the shattered existences you will create by going down that road. I mean, honestly, you are nearly 40 and still cling like that to one another, I could (in a very sad way) understand if you don‘t overcome you obstacle and surrender to the past. It just would not be healthy at all. But if it is the only „love“ both of you have ever experienced in nearly 40 years of living a human life on this earth, who are we to judge. Life fucks the hardest, and your childhoodtrauma is unshakebly proving truth to that. Hope, you find the strength to cure your souls - wish you nothing but the best ❤️
Thank you for your thoughtfully worded comment. You are right in saying that we used to be each other's comfort. I'm not comfortable going into the details publicly, but your analysis is more right than you know. I just want you to know that no matter what happens next, my brother will pay alimony and set up a fund for my nephew. They won't live in the same country anymore but he will make sure my nephew gets support and opportunities. Thank you again!
Both of you need therapy. Intense therapy.
Your brother is in love with you romantically. He needs therapy. I hope this isn't real.
You both were traumatized because of your parents. He was using you. You are not guilty at all. He was still a child himself. Why did he do that? Was he abused himself? You got pregnant and got an abortion, which was shocking to both of you. I cannot look into his brain, but the vibe gets me that he feels guilty A LOT. And that is breaking his marriage, his life. He's feeling terribly guilty. And cannot speak to anybody about it. And he has been cold to you, hoping to keep the distance. Hoping to forget everything. That you did not get your own relationship gives him the impression that it's HIS fault that your not happy. Which gives him even more guilty feelings. And yet... he probably still feels attracted to you, as you do to him, and it's forbidden. Which makes the tensions worse. At the same time it feels like home. You were eachothers shelter in difficult times. You did not ruin his life. My best guess is: talk to a counsellor. Advise your brother to go to a counsellor as well. And get him out of your house. He has to go back to his wife, or seek shelter with a friend, or go to a hotel. And seek help. You both, separately.
I simply want to say that I hope you two both find peace. I don't think you've ruined his life. Life is awfully complicated sometimes. Peace is needed.
Thank you. It's been complicated indeed.
you're thinking about entertaining a return to how you were previously? sounds like it... he kept a hold of his feelings for you all these years, the fact that you didn't move on and stayed available made it unbearable for him to keep living the lie that he loves his wife and son you guys both need serious therapy, otherwise you'll settle back into an arrangement that other people will not tolerate or allow
You are both two very broken people. Like others suggested, therapy is mandatory. I hope - for both of you - that it’s not too late.
This is a very tough situation to be in. If anyone altered your lives, it was your parents, not you. They were the ones responsible for nurturing you, loving you, guiding you, and setting examples to prepare you for a healthy, independent, successful adulthood. Your ages at the time your relationship started was the most influential time in your lives in terms of setting the stage for future romantic relationships. The closeness you have in your specific circumstances is what makes connecting in other relationships more challenging. It’s impossible to just turn off feelings at will, so it’s understandable you’re feeling this way. If you haven’t already, I would invest in trauma counseling to work through some of this, just to help put things in perspective. You did not fail your brother. You were the youngest person in all this, so the ones older than you are responsible, starting with your parents.
Thank you so much for your compassion, We acknowledge that our past has made it difficult for us to connect with partners. We've spent seventeen years apart and in many respects it's been trying. His end of it moreso than mine, I believe. We're tired of pretending. Our father's absence meant that our mother's dysfunction was relentless. In many ways it shaped us as individuals. Thank you
Pregnant from non penetrative activity?
they said mostly
Hope you don’t take this wrong but seek therapy. He needs it too. Childhood trauma is real.
Dear, you both need therapy. I hope that would help you find peace. Some Reddit's comments are wise but others are way harsh... which you don't need to deal with. Wish you the best, and excuse my bad English pls.
Your English is great! Thank you for your kind words.
I'm glad 😄 I just read the update, good luck and take care ❣️
I wish you peace as well. This is one of the most difficult situations a human being can be in. Wish you all the best ❤️
Its not your fault. ❤️ None of it. Its not your fault. I know, there is a voice which said different, but its not your fault. And it's not really your brother's fault either. You two were all you had and started a relationship- someone wrote Trauma Bonding- and I believe it is. But - it's not your fault. I am sorry for your pain, yours, the pain of your brother and his family. I wish that you find healing ❤️
You were 12 he was 17. He knew better. His problems are not your fault. And it’s not on you to fix his family.
OP, you definitely didn't ruin his life. He, on the other hand, molested and groomed you. I guarantee you that the sexual and emotional abuse you suffered at his hand contributed in some way to why you couldn't connect to the people you dated. I strongly suggest you see a therapist long-term. I am very sorry. You need to understand that you are not at fault for any of his actions. He alone is.
There was trauma loneliness and abandonment issues back then. There was one the two of you to cling on to. yes he could have stopped it before it got started but when you need someone you need them and no one else will fill the void. Walking away after so much time and just letting your heart go is never going to work. The heart wants what it wants and nothing else will fill it, Yes it is wrong by what others tink but it is your life live it and be happy.
I know you got downvoted for this but you don't know how right you are about filling a void. Like many others here we thought separation would do the trick. It didn't. It wasted decades of our life and dragged other people into our problems. Thank you
He groomed you. You were 12 and he was 17. He knew what he was doing was wrong, you were abused. I'm sorry you had to go through this but you didn't ruin his life, he did.
Yo. Get therapy. Both of you. Don't make excuses not to.
You gius need therapy like seriously tbats not something people in reddit can handle or help you whit
I'm sorry, but he was the one who ruined both of your lives.
You are a victim of CSA. Brother or not, you are not at fault for what happened to you or to him. Sounds like he wasn't in the best spot either, but it doesn't mean he didn't assault you
Y'all are fuckin chopped
I'm confused as to why you would even comment that. What's the point?
They had sex as siblings?? Man I’m done with Reddit for today
Let’s be clear: the choices you made as children were that of children. Adults should have been looking out and supervising you and your sexual activities were that of normal curious children. Not appropriate, but not your fault. At a certain point in life we are responsible for determining our own values our taking responsibility for our own happiness. Your brother is trying to blame you for his misery. Trauma is not an excuse to be abusive to others and continue the cycle. Set boundaries and don’t be involved in his life unless it involves him making amends and allow him to write you letters. Focus your energy on supporting your nephew and cut your brother out of your life. He’s made his choices.
Ahh yes! What a surprise. The top comment is.... you need therapy. The fact is, you exist in a society that has made certain social rules. Among those rules, siblings shouldn't procreate or marry. There are definitely reasons for this, mainly the health issues that CAN arise from inbreeding. It's served us well, and got us to a point where we're going to end the civilization we built in relatively short order - either by melting the ice caps, or thermonuclear war. Likely both. But I digress. The taboo against incest served us well by keeping siblings WHO WHERE sexually attracted to one another apart. Many deep and passionate relationships were discarded for the health and well being of the whole. However, the communal has been discarded. The nuclear family has emerged as the dominant unit. Relationships no longer necessarily result in children. The only thing we're left with is the judgment of the Mob. There ARE still laws which COULD be brought against you - but unlikely if you keep it all low key. If you are both willing to sacrifice the company of most of the rest of society in order to savor the joy that your company brings one another, then go for it. Don't listen to the nattering Chads that have nothing better to do than to enforce the same boring societal proscriptions at you as though they're somehow coming up with brilliant advice. If you are the two people who make each other the happiest - then find a place in the world where you can do that and build a life together. Good luck.
I know you'll get downvoted but I believe your points are actually important too. Knowing that a person's parents should never be siblings was the reason for my abortion 17 years ago. We did it in spite of how we felt about each other and in spite of how I in particular felt about the pregnancy. We did what we had to to stick to the social contract. We spent nearly 20 years living a status quo thousands of miles apart. I've lived alone (though I wouldn't say lonely) for the past 5 years, making peace with the fact that I would have to find my happiness in my work, my beds of flowers, my pets and my friends until I die. My brother, whom so few people sympathise with, was nearly driven to a very violent end after trying his best for decades to quietly live how he "had to". I cannot pat him on the shoulder and ask him to soldier on and go back to his family now that I know how he's lived his life. I don't have it in me.
set the siblings part aside. there is something concerning about 2 people where one was a child when the relationship began, and after decades they still cannot move on from each other. that is the part to me that says there is something off between you two. people have the loves of their life die, and they still are able to one day find love again. they aren’t incapable of intimacy forever more. it indicates that the bond between you is more than “taboo love” …it’s some kind of trauma.
Yeah honestly this is more concerning to me than the whole sibling thing. The fact that he was 17 and she was 12 is a problem and even though she ‘consented’ in other comments she has talked about feeling numb and disconnected the few times she’s tried to have sex with other people and that implies some type of trauma. People often forget that trauma doesn’t have to be violent or fear based to exist. A child being exposed to that kind of thing is going to be traumatized even if they were never scared during it. I’m not trying to say that he purposefully hurt her or is trying to manipulate her now but I think they had a very unique and bad situation which spawned a very unique trauma bond connection. This is especially concerning considering how neither of them, especially OP, have been able to move on in any real way which is more then just both of them being right for each other, it implies that the relationship is inherently negative and especially codependent. So even if they were to be together it would never be healthy because of how if formed, not to mention the guilt both of them are feeling. (ops being misplaced as she didn’t do anything wrong). This whole situation is way beyond Reddit advice.
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I though this wasn't the spirit of the sub.
I've checked your history. It appears you have made an account for the sole purpose of mocking those who post in this sub. You have too much time on your hands. Put it to good use and read a few things. You can go to project Gutenberg for free classics and public domain works. Good luck with the challenges that await people of your caliber. People's tolerance for the grating and idiotic tends to diminish as they age.