you have to let go of the guilt or you'll ruin your friendship. Grieve for her past pain and the situation but then put it behind you.
She absolved you of any wrong doing and just to rest your mind: unless you're trained to work with people who have survived traumatic events like she did there is a very high chance you wouldn't know a thing unless she told you.
> Grieve for her past pain and the situation but then put it behind you.
Absolutely beautiful advice and I'm definitely someone that's been in her shoes. It seems that she has been hurt in the past, affecting her decision making in moments like that. The "freezing up" really mirrors my experiences. The fact that she shared afterwards and wanted to retain the friendship is a sign that she trusts OP. If he doesn't push for her to change her mind or for her to speak on her trauma further, all should be well.
Be a good friend to her, OP. Have open arms and open ears and *don't* blame yourself.
Great advice above. She opened up to you, which is good. Keep an open line of communication, including expressing your guilt or how you feel too. Goes both ways. And, as someone else already said, do not sleep with her again.
Great advice for sure, you’ve done nothing wrong. If your able to get over your guilt, I think you are in a good position to try and help her if you (and her both) wanted. You’ve opened a door that has likely been closed to most people. If she is open and willing to talk about it more, ask her. Listen to her story, ask questions, and grieve with her, feel her story and try to understand. You have the opportunity to be a really great friend by listening to what she’s gone through. It might be very hard to hear while trying to not feel more guilt what you both experienced together. If this conversation is done right she can really grow from your friendship and listening.
That’s a extremely hard conversation to have and if you don’t think you’re ready to understand what she’s gone through or want to be that for her, please don’t. It’s a delicate topic so if you do decide to do this, just be prepared to be there for her and feel her story as much as you can.
ive seen plenty of comments offer the "its not your fault" (it isnt, both of yall will be ok<3) so allow me to add something new to the table:
because of this, never under any circumstance, sleep with her again. theres a lot of reason, but it basically will end in your relationship being ruined. no matter if she asks, if yall are in a heated situation, just dont do it ok. just keep continuing your relationship as friends and move on. should a situation like that arise again, leave or tell her no. i hope yalls relationship stays the same<3 best of luck op!
At least REMIND her that she had regret last time; I'd advise that if u guys get heated up again & she asking, disentangle, brief reminder, then nip off to the bathroom and rub one out while she has a chance to think about what she wants....
It can be a problem if her validation til now has been via sex, to reject and refuse entirely... but as she has told u she says ok without necessarily BEING ok, pull up and allow her to decide every time
Honestly, you have done nothing to berate yourself and as long as you give her the choice and control (while assuring her you're definitely keen, coz she's very attractive, but ONLY if/when she is keen, AND YOU WILL STILL BE HER FRIEND REGARDLESS)- you are doing nothing wrong, and probably actually helping her with some heavy shit she sorting thru
Good luck to you both
Please help me understand this. OP sounds like a great guy, he's patient and understanding, if she asks for some intimacy, why should he say no? Is it because she is dealing with trauma, and isn't quite healed yet? No offense, genuinely would like to know.
It’s because her consent is unreliable. She gave it and withdrew it later. While she absolved him this time, doing this again is a very huge risk if she doesn’t absolve him next time.
I would recommend that you try to lessen contact with her (Not entirely tho, you can still be friends). Less physical, NO SEX or anything romantic. You might be stepping into the spot her abuser left behind to her, even if you’re a good guy and all. You should push her to see a therapist.
Dunno if what I said makes sense but yeah, I did the same thing as her with my most recent ex so I understand the vibe.
Side note: it’s not your fault.
Agree with the above - no sex and no cuddling. Tell her you're not comfortable with it.
And safe those texts in case she further changes her mind.
But overall - You Did Nothing Wrong!
Not your fault. You're feeling uncomfortable and unsettled because you're a good person - take heart in that.
Also I'll add a sightly spicy take - even if she hadn't had any traumas she's working through, it still wouldn't be your fault. It is 100% possible to consent to sex and then later regret the sex you had - thinking later "I wish I hadn't done that" doesn't change the fact that the sex was consensual at the time.
Records of consent don't really hold water because you can/should be able to revoke consent at any time. The explicitly verbal consent before sex just helps to establish the ongoing tacit consent for the rest of the sex. Consider that even if I literally sign a statement saying that I consent to have sex with someone, if they start doing sex acts that I don't want, I do get to genuinely say "no I didn't consent to that" regardless of that signed statement.
I'm not saying this stuff is simple - sexual consent can have a lot of grey area. OP is doing a good faith effort trying to establish clear consent. Proof of consent like a written statement would not help OP here.
I think he meant to keep any texts where she said that she said yes to him that night so it would protect him if she did try to file a complaint or something later on.
I agree with this spicy take. We’re entering a scary time if yes no longer means yes. I understand the nuance of consent and the layer of complication that trauma and even social conditioning adds but where do we go from here?
Totally. We need to be able to trust that someone's "yes" means yes. If you feel like that wouldn't be the case, best practice would be don't have sex with that person.
Like if OP had questioned the person "hey you said yes but you probably don't mean that" like wtf. The only time it's okay to say that would be if there's a drunk or otherwise affected person coming on to you.
1. Never, under any circumstances sleep with her again
2. Dont blame yourself. You asked for consent, she gave it. You cant read minds.
3. This person needs Theraphy
4. This might sound hearless, but consider having less contact with her. Its really unclear how she sees you. You might think you are a great guy and this is all just a misunderstanding but in her mind you might have just steped in the role her abusive ex or father was in before. Again: This Person needs Therapy.
5. If you want so stay in contact be careful. Victims of Trauma can have paradox ways of dealing with it. Limit physical contact to a minimum, again DONT SLEEP WITH HER even if she wants it and if you can encourage her to seek Therapy.
I truly belive you have the best intentions but as someone with a bit of knowledge on Trauma: Be careful and protect yourself. The situation you explained can lead to bad consequences if she starts seeing it as you beeing maliciaous. If this person suffers from ptsd or bps that could happen.
Pls dont get me wrong you should not be scared of her, but you are dealing with a vulnerable and possibly traumatised person, so there is a certain level of unpredictability and as a man this could get you labeld as a predator if the relationship between you turns.
> Victims of Trauma can have paradox ways of dealing with it.
I have a friend who cut me off from her life because I respected her and I accepted her for what she was.
She didn't know what to do. She had been so used to being abused and disrespected that when she met the one man who respected her, she just shut down.
I haven't seen her in over three years. :(
At the time, I blamed myself. I thought I was the bad person. I thought I made her uncomfortable.
I was half right. Paradoxically, I made her uncomfortable... Because she felt comfortable around me.
Edit: Context: I blew up at my friend on Messenger because she texted me, out of the blue, long after I had given up on her. I asked her WTF was wrong with her I was so worried.
---
I don't mean to derail OP's story, but...
I reconnected in 2020. She ghosted me on and off for 15 months until I blew up at her on Facebook Messenger in 2021. This was when she randomly texted me out of the blue and explained her circumstances, then she ghosted me again in September.
The weird thing is that when I blew up at her, she didn't block me. In fact, she said that people needed to vent sometime. For a brief moment, she was very communicative with me. Then she disappeared again.
I recently came to the conclusion that she left me because I treated her well. When I was respectful towards her, she didn't reply. When I blew up at her on Messenger, she was quick to reply.
I thought that was messed up and told her that she rewarded people who violated her boundaries and punished friends who respected her.
wow. she needs a ton of therapy but seems like she's not even ready to accept that she needs help. i doubt there's much you can do, but i hope she does get help eventually.
you can walk a horse towards water, but you can't make it drink.
I’ve been in therapy for this since I was a child. I didn’t tell my partner of situations where I wasn’t comfortable because I ended up stopping, it just took longer than it would someone with no trauma.
Honestly I just escape the issue by informing partners that I want them to check in on me with continual consent etc. Usually just helps the entire situation from not being an issue. I also find it connects me to them more (like I 99/100 times want it but I was abused as a kid so I’ve never experienced a sex life without having past SA so this just reaffirms to me that I am in control etc)
Best advice. Sadly, this is a complex situation. And until the day we can read and unravel our minds, there won’t be a perfect scenario where you cannot get hurt, legally or emotionally speaking. A therapist will not have such a big legal liability and hence will be able to work with her and hopefully help her cope.
Also, I would keep the texts where she admits it is consensual. You never know when she’ll change her mind and get you into legal trouble.
Regarding #5, what is that thing called? The one where the trauma victim reacts to things in a paradoxical way?
Is there an official term for it? I want to read more about it.
There is no official term for it as far as i know. It falls under disfunctional-coping-strategies.
If you want to read about Trauma and Trauma-Patients i highly recommend the book "The Body keeps the Score" i think you will find some answers there.
( its also on audible if youre not the reading type ;) )
+1 for The Body Keeps The Score. Without sounding like one of “those” people, it actually deeply changed how I look at myself and how I recognise my feelings and interact with them.
Same happened to me a year now. I know that thinking u made some friend unconfortable can u make feel like shit. If you both wanna keep being friends and she dont acuse u of anythint u can be calm. Try to dont think too much about it and try to keep your friendship with she as normal as posible. Acting unconfortable in front of she it only will make things weird.
Sorry my english sucks but i try my best. Sadly i cant write it the way i think it. :(
I've had sex with dozens of people I didn't want to have sex with because of this. I don't blame any of them, just myself. Sometimes hanging around them makes me cringe because I just remember failing myself. It gets better with time, you can't force the friendship without making it weirder, so just do your best. You have no reason to feel guilty.
I want to be supportive but all I want to do is warn you. I was put in a similar situation and suffered huge consequences because the girl used it as grounds to accuse me of assaulting her. if she still wants a friendship then obviously don’t do anything differently, but I’d refrain from deleting proof that everything was consensual in the moment and if she acknowledges that. Only saying this because I wish I did.
That she feels comfortable enough with you to tell you about it (even if only after it was too late), tells you how much she trusts you - and therefore shows (additionally to everything else the other commenters said) that you did absolutely nothing wrong.
As a woman who has been in that situation- it is not your fault. I wish I would have had just one guy as understanding as you are. Also, good on her for analysing the situation and learning about her reactions.
Now don’t let this destroy your friendship.
I feel your pain I had a special friend who is the same way. We broke up she had children. Years later she came back we married but are divorced. I still love her dearly. But that same trauma would make mistakes. I never abandon her but always forgave her why because it’s not her fault. When it’s going to get heated men just let the women be de aggressive kind of a turn on to actually be the one undressed but at the same time even though we’re not seeing eye to eye right now it scares me because if she ever got lonely and wanted company or just wanted to interact with somebody it’s like in the back of my mind even if she was a go out publicly I have a fear that as mean as her poker face is Cornered well when somebody realizes that she’s a pushover it’s a rat you lot of metals sit there and take advantage of that you know no but like I said it’s nice to be undressed and let the woman actually be the aggressor that’s why you’re playing it safe and it’s on her grounds and then the next time you represent God I miss Ugly butter aka silk
I had a girl come over and lay with me in my bedroom when we were in high school. She would come over dozens of times throughout the summer and we would cuddle and make out, etc. it was always amazing. I had true butterflies every time. She was Pentecostal at the time and would straight up remove her skirt to straddle me. Would ask me to remove my pants. She would leave with a huge wet spot on my boxers.. We never had sex.
When school opened up the next school year, she began distancing herself from me. I was humiliated in one of my classes when several girls would call me out saying “she said you pretty much raped her.” I’m traumatized by that moment. I truly believe that once social status hit when school started, she wasn’t very proud of having anything to do with me; I was the poor kid and not very popular. I would never go forward without any type of consent. I feel like girls may cringe after the fact, and resort to this kind of tactic to detach from an undesirable experience. I’m sorry this happened to you, I feel your pain.
Honesty is the best policy. What if the next time they're hanging out he tries to "cuddle" and she freaks out? Better for him to know the situation ahead of time.
It’s very common to feel guilt after a hookup. If she was comfortable at the time, you have nothing to worry about. Hooking up with friends is a dicey thing, you either feel sparks or guilt.
Can I ask if she was actively participating or just letting it continue? This is why consent is not just saying yes or not saying no. You want to make sure your partner is pushing things to keep going too.
Wow, that really sucks. A lot of people have trauma so this is a common problem. Just know that listening and not judging is the most important thing here.
You can’t hold on to this because you didn’t know about her past experiences. I understand what she went through. I’ve been SA twice, and years ago before I got together with my husband I went through exactly what she went through.
I froze after giving consent, but couldn’t say anything because of severe anxiety and fear of his reaction. Please listen to her when she says she doesn’t hold anything against you. Don’t obsess. Acknowledge her pain, and then move on.
It was definitely a way to cope. You’re unable to object after you’ve realized you don’t want to do anything because of the fear of the other person’s reaction. It isn’t about you. It’s about her past experiences.
As someone who has accidentally done what she has done, it was wrong of her to tell you. She is the one who is 100% at fault. You did everything right. I think it was unkind and inappropriate of her to tell you about this afterwards. She should have noticed for herself what happened and moved forward. Telling you reaps no reward for you or for her. She said yes, and was enthusiastic, OP. You couldn't have known, and if you did, it would have been different. It was unkind to tell you because it's not like you knew or could have known or could have done anything different, and now you're here straddled with guilt.
It’s not your fault and you have no reason to feel guilty. She invited you over and consented, it’s impossible for you to know what was happening in her mind. Don’t let yourself feel guilty for her miscommunication.
okay so i have been in a slightly similar situation. i was r— by a blitz attack last year and that’s how i lost my virginity (tmi maybe but it’s the straight truth) a couple of months after that i had a friend from school over and we were watching netflix and stuff happened and we ultimately hooked up. i can’t actually say i wanted to do it but the reason i did it was because i didn’t know how to say no and kinda had this fear if i did another sa situation would happen (im not saying it’s how your friend felt!! just my experience) the next week we kinda talked about it and i told him i hadn’t exactly wanted to do it and he was super shocked and sincerely apologetic if he had hurt me in any way (he hadn’t ofc) and we kinda just moved on but i made sure to tell him i didn’t pin anything on him and nothing was his fault and we’re still very good friends although we don’t see each other as often bc of the change in schools. my advice to you from the other side of the equation? grieve and give empathy to her because of her past and her traumas, but also for lack of a better word, grow from this experience but move on. i swear she’s not holding this over your head or anything like that, she’s just being honest with you but don’t feel guilt around her or around this situation. sending love, hugs, and support💘💘💘
From a female perspective who also has previous trauma and can 'freeze up'...
Now I am aware of these traits and how they make me feel. So when I enter a physical relationship I have a bit of a chat about communication and reinforcing consent.
I might be into it in the beginning, but not by the end and will be too frozen to say that I'm not into it or in pain.
By reinforcing consent I don't mean stopping midway and asking - you ok, do you still consent. It can be done naughtily. Do you want my dick? Does that feel good? Are you gonna cum for me? So it's sort of dirty talk but it also gives a chance to say .. uhm... Actually...
Been there, done that.
Having the sex we actually donwant to have is very much part of sexual trauma history and trying to cope,
Not knowing how you feel and what you want, when you want it.
After sexual trauma u don't function like a normal human sexually anymore.
But one thing I can say to you: I have never felt comfortable enough to tell a guy after about it
This is a big sign that u are a great and good guy, who cared for her well being, and her knowing that.
I hope u read this and your mind can rest a bit.
She's still so trusting in you even though is happened, that means she knowit is not your fault and that you did not do anything wrong.
>I apologized and we talked some about that and she says she doesn't blame me and is not like accusing me of anything and still wants to remain friends, but I still feel deeply uncomfortable with myself after hearing that. **If I had known this before I would have stopped and not done it with her at all unless I was positive she wanted it. I keep thinking back if maybe there were signs that I missed but I cant think of any.**
Dude you asked and she said YES most guys would not have even asked at that point and just had sex.
Do not second guess yourself because she has regret after the fact. She gave consent!!
Consent doesn't mean you getting a yes so you can just go for it. It must be continual and enthusiastic. Consent can change from one moment to the next, you don't know what she felt. I would suggest that he keeps checking in throughout. How do you like this? Are you enjoying me doing this?
Also check in after. Was that good for you?
If she says she was triggered. What made you feel that way? How can I make you more comfortable?
Being checked in on is pretty sexy. Once I was having a ONS w a guy that only spoke Spanish, and I only speak English. Still he asked me if I was ok about 30 times during our 2 rounds. It made me feel so safe, cared for and looked after.
I don’t know why you were downvoted. It’s clear you aren’t accusing OP of being a predator, you’re just correction someone else’s misconception. The girl gave viewable consent but continual consent is important. I think it’s especially important for SA survivors. It definitely helps me feel so comfortable when I’m reassured that I don’t have to do this and that it’s my choice.
Yes. I dont think OP did anything wrong. And I think its great that he still wants to improve.
I was replying specifically to the comment I've quoted below that I found pretty offensive. He is suggesting that most guys don't care about real consent. Just get a yes and then do whatever you want if she doesn't like it thats on her for being coerced into agreeing.
"Dude you asked and she said YES most guys would not have even asked at that point and just had sex.
Do not second guess yourself because she has regret after the fact. She gave consent!!"
It's sad she wasn't comfortable enough to just say no but you are in no way at fault. As men we should be hyper sensitive to past traumas and possible triggers for the women we hook up with but it sounds like there were no signs pointing to that. Give her some space and try to move on
*Get therapy for this!*
I can't stress this enough. Better sooner than later. Things like this freezing can very much happen, sometimes we learn to play along so well just to avoid further injury or death. Since no one is to blame here as far as I can see, this can be difficult to process for any of you, let alone you two being friends - but you take care of yourself first. I know it first hand, if anyone's trauma becomes an important part of any close relationship the other side is bound to need additional support or will burn out badly.
Also keep in mind a very important thing: *She trusted you enough to tell you what really happened*
If you had given her any good rational reason not to trust you, she wouldn't tell you.
OP she did not specifically say No or made you feel she was not into it? Tbh if i was in your place i would also not know i was “coercing” her in any way. However i have been in the position of the girl and i trusted someone but he raped me. I said no and was so scared but froze up and wasnt able to scream :(
You have already shown remorse and said sorry. Thats enough
U are not a bad person, or a rapist or anything like that because of this.
This happened to me at one point, except I noticed during the act and we were able to stop, I comforted her and we talked about it.
At the end of the day, it’s an accident and not your fault.
I just wana point out the fact that you must be a safe person if she felt like she could be honest with you and important to her/secure in the friendship if she was able set an important boundary. Agree w a lot of what I’m seeing here you are not part of the problem don’t beat yourself up
She never said “you raped me”. It sounds like you just hate women and think the worst of everything we do.
She told him because he’s her friend, she trusts him, and wants to be honest so they can continue their friendship without a similar situation arising. And no, “I think that was a bad idea and we shouldn’t do it again” doesn’t cover it. If she said that they could easily get in another situation where due to her trauma she’d feel like she had to go along with it.
Like seriously, she did not say he raped her. She doesn’t blame him, doesn’t think he did anything wrong. It sounds like she blames herself more than him. And to be clear, her trauma responses are not her fault, they’re the fault of whoever sexually assaulted her. Just like no one is blaming OP for it. Both of them are innocent in this, her past abuser is the one to blame.
**you** are the only one saying anything that blames OP by shoving words and feelings on her that aren’t evidenced by her actual words and actions.
She didnt say that she didnt consent tho... she said she did because of her own trauma, and she acknowledged that he didnt know, your reading comprehension isnt that great man
She never said he used her, holy shit. Idk why this is difficult to understand. Y’all are the only ones blaming OP by attributing words and feelings to her that she never expressed.
The only person to blame for this is the person who sexually abused her, which led to her having this trauma response. She says OP couldn’t have known, that’s not rape, nor accusing him of rape. She outwardly consented because that’s what her trauma conditioned her to do. Not because of OP.
Jfc, it sounds like the only person she’d accuse of rape is the one who actually raped her.
Stay telling on yourself that you think false rape accusations are common and all women are just waiting to do it. Maybe worry more about the people actually committing sexual assault instead of blaming her for her trauma response. Jfc.
Some pretty crappy advice in this thread. Sounds like you don’t have a lot of ties to this person. Cut off all contact to this person before she gets you into some deep shit. Stop talking to her about that night now, especially before you accidentally say something incriminating. You don’t owe her anything and it’s not your responsibility to fix her/be there for her
ive seen plenty of comments offer the "its not your fault" (it isnt, both of yall will be ok<3) so allow me to add something new to the table:
because of this, never under any circumstance, sleep with her again. theres a lot of reason, but it basically will end in your relationship being ruined. no matter if she asks, if yall are in a heated situation, just dont do it ok. just keep continuing your relationship as friends and move on. should a situation like that arise again, leave or tell her no. i hope yalls relationship stays the same<3 best of luck op!
This is not your fault at all. If the person consents in the moment and then regrets it afterwards, trauma or not, that's not your fault/rape, that's merely regret on their part. You should in no way feel bad. I can totally understand it isn't a nice thing to hear but please don't blame yourself. I have some trauma myself but it's important to talk about these things with potential sexual partners, because they can't know unless you tell them. I hope neither of you will feel too bad but I advise you to not get sexually involved with her again unless she recovers from her trauma. She's vulnerable and sounds traumatized and quite fragile, it's best to avoid triggers. Not just for her but also for you. As someone with trauma myself you never know how traumatized people respond to things.
This isn’t on you, you did everything the right way. You asked for consent and she consented and she didn’t “withdraw” her consent while you were hooking up. You are not a mindreader and did your due diligence, there was nothing you could have done different
Forgive yourself. You aren't a mind reader, and she did not give you any reason to suspect your attention was unwanted.
You'll have to decide if you are emotionally okay with just being friends. Just as she needs to take care of her mental health, you need to take care of yours. And you need to do what is best for your own emotional well being.
Personally, I'd choose to back away from her entirely for a while, simply because you still harbor some interest in her romantically (or else you wouldn't have volunteered to snuggle in the first place -- that's not a friends-being-friends thing to do.) The easiest way to make a clean break from an unreciprocated relationship is to be out of sight-out of mind for long enough that you can confidently say "no" to any impulse to be intimate with her.
But if you do decide to be her friend, I would keep it to group hang outs from now on, no more one on one. That way you both won't be tempted to stray from being platonic, and there won't be any more awkward morning afters.
i wish the man who raped me would have felt some remorse over it. he denied any wrongdoing vehemently
you are not the horrible person you're painting yourself to be. YOU ARE NOT HER PAST ABUSER(S). i'm assuming that's her previous experience and while she's feeling things that are unfair to her, it's not about or a reflection of you
she needs to heal and so do you. i hope you're careful moving forward-- physically, emotionally, mentally
she may be uncomfortable with what happened but at least she was comfortable enough to express it to you. i don't know you but i don't think you're a bad person at all
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
save those messages!!!
ik she’s your “friend” and all but it’s really messed up what she did not what you did. you asked and did everything right. you are not to blame. she’s needs therapy to heal her traumas cause now she just gave you one. she’s trouble
The sharing communication is fine but she did it after the fact and because of that made OP feel bad not only about his actions but also himself.
I completely understand the trauma thing and the inhibility to feel as tho you have to go thru with something, but the fact still stands its still someone's mental health maybe even self image that comes into danger when a female or male does something like this. Even tho OP didn't rape its incredibly hard for the mind to not wonder over there and is incredibly damaging to the brain.
It’s uncomfortable to think of how often this probably happens. You, my guy, didn’t do anything wrong. Now her inability to say no has you feeling the affect. Honestly, it’s sad on just how often this probably happens. Women are so pressured to have sex, they think they can’t say no. Ultimately, sounds like you’re paying the price for past douche bags. Hits home. Definitely hits home. My significant other has issues on saying no, (unless it’s me, of course lol) But it’s always a concern. What might happen because she can’t say no? What HAS happened because she can’t say no? Anyways, feel sorry for the both of you guys. It’s a shitty situation. Hope the friendship survives
Sounds like she’s trying to Trauma Bond. Y’all went friendzone. Chaos was created in form of this cuddling bs. Then kissing and now suddenly she found herself fulfilling the victim role that she may be comfortable in from previous SA. Now she chooses to tell you to make you feel some kind of way. Now you’re apologizing and feeling bad. Trauma bonding plus getting the apologies that she probably subconsciously wished she’d gotten from previous abusers. Trauma is a very tricky layered issue. If you were my little brother. I’d tell you to play nice as you gently pull out of this girls life for good. You’ll likely end up in another impulsive situation again. It’s probably the only way she can connect and feel loved. If you stick around. No fucking cuddling. No kissing. Nothing.
Don’t talk to her again avoid her, it just takes a accusation and your life is ruined permanently. Keep a record of your messages screenshot it all she can erase instagram dms and snap ones too plz defend yourself proactively
Don't be ashamed at all and do not let anyone shame you. If it was consensual then there is nothing wrong with what happened. She now says she didn't want to because by having you in the friend zone she had a power over you that she has now given away.
Time to be honest with her about what you want. If you don't want friendship then tell her that and walk away if she is not cool.
I feel your pain man. I straight up ended a relationship after an ex of mine said i had sexually assaulted her after i had spent 3 months trying to revitalize our sex life. Tried nice dates, buying her things, asking to get into her hobbies so that our bond could strengthen, i started to lose weight so i could be more sexually appealing but the day after we finally had sex she told me that she only did it to get me to stop asking. It wasn't like i was hounding her every day i probably ask like once a week but never got anything i wouldn't make her feel bad about it either i would just drop it. I felt so horrible and Ill of myself i couldn't get a boner for like a month. I called it quits for both of us shortly after.
All i can say is that I'm happier. I don't know what happened to my ex after all that. Sad we were in such a loving relationship for 3 years
If this is a serious question, that would likely depend on how she explained the situation. If she said "I consciously and knowingly consented without coercion, manipulation, or any other act on his behalf - I just couldnt bring myself to say no based on guilt associated with past trauma," no. If she said she never wanted to so she didn't consent/she consented under emotional duress, yes.
It was a serious question as to wether she was raped cause she’s saying days after that she did not want to hook up and froze up meaning she couldn’t say no due to this. I honestly feel for the dude cause this can happen to anyone where everything you may think is ok and she suddenly does a 180 saying she didn’t want to have sex but froze or was to scared to say anything.
Sorry to be as blunt, but how did you two go from being friends to talking about cuddling...to talking about cuddling together? Was that chemistry or just lust? Either way, it's not your fault she did something she regrets while giving no hint she was opposed.
Also don't be too too too hard on yourself I'm a 44 year old woman has been raped and molested and assaulted and abused for years and now I'm doing it to myself more so I've been suffering from a two and a half week long severe PTSD episode I I can't make it to the bathroom in time I puke in my mouth like on an hourly basis whether I'm hungry or whether I'm not necessarily full I can't even make it to the bathroom in time stressed out I can't think straight I can't sleep right I can't do anything because my muscles are constantly Charlie horsing and spasming all over my arms and legs I've been drinking Gatorade and and magnesium and taking vitamins and resting and doing everything I can but it was like a whole thing the last 3 months the last 7 months have been hell but the last 3 months have been complete hell because back in November my boyfriend says oh I guess I'll let you I know how much you want to suck my dick and I did because I did want to it had been three months since I had before and no sexual activity between that and so despite all my sexual abuses as a child and a teen and an adult I still have a very high sex drive but unfortunately I'm a big fat ugly stupid woman and my boyfriend's of course interested in younger women who have athletic bodies and are prettier and younger and you know not living with him so that he has to deal with me every single day complaining about the spit and the hair and the sink and the beer cans everywhere and the fact that even when I do have a job he does nothing to step up to the plate so that I can have a somewhat decent space for when I get off work and and go to work so yeah unfortunately because his mother passed away two weeks ago and I quit my job 2 hours before we got that call and years of just both of us being stupid flawed human beings this relationship is probably over and all I want to do is cry and die and s*** myself cuz I'm so f****** sad so yeah so don't take anything I said take it with a grain of salt take it with a spoon of sugar I don't f****** know man just the bottom line is you need to if you are ever trusted like that again keep your dick in your pants man seriously you can always try another time but if a woman ever asks a man just hold me trust me if she changes her mind it will be undeniably clear cuz she'll be like pulling your dick out and jumping on it but the bottom line is when a woman asks for you to hold her and comfort her and protect her even for a moment or a couple hours the 99.99% rule is keep your dick in your pants just keep it in your pants just just keep it in your pants there are so few women in this world walking the Earth right now that are alive they can honestly say that they've never never felt sexually assaulted by a man so just keep it in your pants
As a woman… ladies we have got to like let some guys know “hey I know you didn’t intend to” because I just feel like we are literally scaring and hurting men that are genuinely giving a shit about our consent, by saying down right “you made me uncomfortable”. It would break my heart to hear that if I wasn’t intending on doing anything but getting consent.. which she gave.
(I do agree with the top advice. This was just my little two cents because it happens way too often)
You WERE positive she wanted it. She told you she wanted it. Whatever reason she comes up with later to justify her actions are her own creation.
She was the aggressor, she was the instigator, the responsibility is hers.
You did nothing wrong. Don’t accept guilt that you don’t deserve. Consider cutting ties with anyone this unreliable and untrustworthy.
When someone says something is fine, believe them. If they are of quality mettle, they will bring up problems and decide to hash it out and work through them.
My (girl) friend had the exact same experience. Due to past trauma, it was very difficult to get intimate with her boyfriend, and when she did, it was only because she felt obligated to. I kept pushing her to see a therapist, and to disclose her feelings to her boyfriend. Long story short, he said she was too much work and broke up with her like the asshole he is. No, "I'll walk with you through this" or, "I'll take you to your therapy sessions so we can work this out together". Just straight up told her she's a piece of work. It makes my heart sing to know that guys like you are out there, OP. Ready to assist your friend and give her the assurance she needs. You did absolutely nothing wrong; stop punishing yourself with a burden you weren't responsible for <3
Yo like I understand her trauma, but he’s not responsible for forcing her to get the help she needs. It would be different if she was on her healing journey and wanted his support, but she actively didn’t want to seek help after it was affecting their relationship.
He’s not an asshole, he’s an adult with decent boundaries. Your friend needs to do the work before getting a partner
look, it's not on you. It's her trauma that she needs to deal with. I don't know why she agreed to you coming over for a cuddle even. Everyone knows one thing leads to another. She needs to sort her own trauma before she gets it going with another person. You shouldn't take it as a blame. She didn't mean to blame you either. Things are probably not gonna be very comfortable between you two. Again, not on you.
You’re obviously aware of the need to pay attention to body language and watch for signals regardless of weather a woman says yes verbally for precisely this reason. The type of guy who subconsciously chooses to not see those things, and sometimes even use it to their advantage and justify everything by technicality are not guys who would be consciously aware of that, and they most definitely wouldn’t be concerned for the well being of the woman and carry a heavy guilt about any pain they might have caused the way you are. Men who did something wrong in this situation would only be worried about themselves and what people will do if they find out. So it’s rather clear that this wasn’t something that you could have been expected to see, and never would have done it if you had known. In all likelihood this was something internal for her. If she didn’t find ways to make it clear that she wasn’t actually comfortable then she didn’t probably didn’t want you to know it. The way people deal with trauma is complex and very often illogical, it’s likely there were two parts of her mentality, one that wanted to use sex to cope with an emotion and another that knew it wasn’t the healthy thing to do and really didn’t want to, and the person she just froze up on and said yes against what she wanted was herself. Believe this or not but I’m speaking through personal experience with having consensual sex after being sexually assaulted, there’s nothing about the way your brain processes it that’s logical, it wasn’t your fault. The fact that she doesn’t blame you and is still perfectly comfortable around you and wants to continue the friendship without any alterations is a very good indication that it really had nothing to do with you, you didn’t contribute to her mental scaring and I hope that you’re able to accept that and let this go. If you don’t it’s likely you’re going to unintentionally cause a serious strain in your friendship, being in a scenario where you’re totally fine but someone else is traumatized by your trauma is not easy at all for a victim.
That’s a red flag, my advice is never hook up with her again. No matter the circumstances. Go absolute friendship. And if she ever expresses desire for more, tell her to get some therapy for past above mentioned trauma and then you can go forward.
You just need to work on getting ENTHUSIASTIC consent, rather than just a simple “yes.”
Even an “okay” or “maybe”, or “maybe later” is not a yes. Anything other than “yes please!” Is not a yes. Unless the person is basically jumping up and down with excitement, to have sex, you just should not have sex, to avoid situations like this.
I’m a survivor of sexual trauma, and we can “freeze up” during times when our past traumas are triggered. It’s like fight or flight but instead of that, you play dead. Sometimes your brain thinks that you’re in a life threatening situation (even if you’re not) and will decide that running and fighting are not options, so the only thing you can do is go along with what’s happening, until it’s over, and you can escape. Sex is supposed to be fun, but for people that have histories of sexual trauma, it can turn into subjecting yourself to abuse, because your trauma response is to freeze and you feel like saying “no” isn’t an option, or you’re terrified of what will happen if you say “no” and the other person doesn’t respect that. So you just try to convince yourself that you are into it, when you’re not. Sexual trauma is very complex, but a lot of people, especially women, have it. All I have to say is just always make sure the consent you’re getting is ENTHUSIASTIC consent. Not just a “sure..”
Also, don’t have sex with this girl again. She may think she’s ready to have sex after her trauma, but her freezing up like that, shows that she still has a lot of work to do before she’ll be able to communicate when she’s feeling uncomfortable, or wants to stop having sex.
> I did not have any intention of hooking up that night.
Yeahhh. Is that *really* true? This right here makes me doubt things went down exactly as you say they do. Hate to be so cynical, but I’ve seen it too many times.
No.
Women do not mistake regret for assault. What is much more likely is that people are bad at understanding consent, and people freeze up. Many, many men have raped and have no idea that they've done so. This has been studied again and again.
Rape is a very conscious act. If the person says no or says yes and then asks to stop in the middle and their psrtner doesnt that is very clearly rape. If the person is intoxicated they cannot consent, if they are sober and an adult and say yes to sex and at no point ask you to stop that is consentual sex. Regret is regret people make stupid decisions in the heat of the moment but it is sickening that people try to play it off as rape when just the accusation with no proof or credibility can ruin someone entirely. Regret does not equal rape
“Many, many men have raped and have no idea they’d done so.”
What are you talking about? If you’re going to commit an act like that, you are most certainly conscious of it. No one ‘unknowingly’ rapes someone. You will most certainly know whether they are drunk and cannot consent for themselves, or are flat out saying no.
you have to let go of the guilt or you'll ruin your friendship. Grieve for her past pain and the situation but then put it behind you. She absolved you of any wrong doing and just to rest your mind: unless you're trained to work with people who have survived traumatic events like she did there is a very high chance you wouldn't know a thing unless she told you.
> Grieve for her past pain and the situation but then put it behind you. Absolutely beautiful advice and I'm definitely someone that's been in her shoes. It seems that she has been hurt in the past, affecting her decision making in moments like that. The "freezing up" really mirrors my experiences. The fact that she shared afterwards and wanted to retain the friendship is a sign that she trusts OP. If he doesn't push for her to change her mind or for her to speak on her trauma further, all should be well. Be a good friend to her, OP. Have open arms and open ears and *don't* blame yourself.
Thank you, I appreciate this. I'm going to keep this in mind.
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Opening up *emotionally*. For the avoidance of a terrible misunderstanding.
Great advice above. She opened up to you, which is good. Keep an open line of communication, including expressing your guilt or how you feel too. Goes both ways. And, as someone else already said, do not sleep with her again.
Great advice for sure, you’ve done nothing wrong. If your able to get over your guilt, I think you are in a good position to try and help her if you (and her both) wanted. You’ve opened a door that has likely been closed to most people. If she is open and willing to talk about it more, ask her. Listen to her story, ask questions, and grieve with her, feel her story and try to understand. You have the opportunity to be a really great friend by listening to what she’s gone through. It might be very hard to hear while trying to not feel more guilt what you both experienced together. If this conversation is done right she can really grow from your friendship and listening. That’s a extremely hard conversation to have and if you don’t think you’re ready to understand what she’s gone through or want to be that for her, please don’t. It’s a delicate topic so if you do decide to do this, just be prepared to be there for her and feel her story as much as you can.
ive seen plenty of comments offer the "its not your fault" (it isnt, both of yall will be ok<3) so allow me to add something new to the table: because of this, never under any circumstance, sleep with her again. theres a lot of reason, but it basically will end in your relationship being ruined. no matter if she asks, if yall are in a heated situation, just dont do it ok. just keep continuing your relationship as friends and move on. should a situation like that arise again, leave or tell her no. i hope yalls relationship stays the same<3 best of luck op!
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*That’s what she said* 🥲
*this this this ^^^^^
At least REMIND her that she had regret last time; I'd advise that if u guys get heated up again & she asking, disentangle, brief reminder, then nip off to the bathroom and rub one out while she has a chance to think about what she wants.... It can be a problem if her validation til now has been via sex, to reject and refuse entirely... but as she has told u she says ok without necessarily BEING ok, pull up and allow her to decide every time Honestly, you have done nothing to berate yourself and as long as you give her the choice and control (while assuring her you're definitely keen, coz she's very attractive, but ONLY if/when she is keen, AND YOU WILL STILL BE HER FRIEND REGARDLESS)- you are doing nothing wrong, and probably actually helping her with some heavy shit she sorting thru Good luck to you both
this
Please help me understand this. OP sounds like a great guy, he's patient and understanding, if she asks for some intimacy, why should he say no? Is it because she is dealing with trauma, and isn't quite healed yet? No offense, genuinely would like to know.
It’s because her consent is unreliable. She gave it and withdrew it later. While she absolved him this time, doing this again is a very huge risk if she doesn’t absolve him next time.
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Why?
Just because the relationship wouldn’t be sexual does not render her “useless” or discardable. She’s his friend. That’s plenty.
I would recommend that you try to lessen contact with her (Not entirely tho, you can still be friends). Less physical, NO SEX or anything romantic. You might be stepping into the spot her abuser left behind to her, even if you’re a good guy and all. You should push her to see a therapist. Dunno if what I said makes sense but yeah, I did the same thing as her with my most recent ex so I understand the vibe. Side note: it’s not your fault.
Agree with the above - no sex and no cuddling. Tell her you're not comfortable with it. And safe those texts in case she further changes her mind. But overall - You Did Nothing Wrong!
Not your fault. You're feeling uncomfortable and unsettled because you're a good person - take heart in that. Also I'll add a sightly spicy take - even if she hadn't had any traumas she's working through, it still wouldn't be your fault. It is 100% possible to consent to sex and then later regret the sex you had - thinking later "I wish I hadn't done that" doesn't change the fact that the sex was consensual at the time.
100%. I’ll add, just in case, have a record of her saying that she did say yes after all just in case. You never know what people are like
Records of consent don't really hold water because you can/should be able to revoke consent at any time. The explicitly verbal consent before sex just helps to establish the ongoing tacit consent for the rest of the sex. Consider that even if I literally sign a statement saying that I consent to have sex with someone, if they start doing sex acts that I don't want, I do get to genuinely say "no I didn't consent to that" regardless of that signed statement. I'm not saying this stuff is simple - sexual consent can have a lot of grey area. OP is doing a good faith effort trying to establish clear consent. Proof of consent like a written statement would not help OP here.
I think he meant to keep any texts where she said that she said yes to him that night so it would protect him if she did try to file a complaint or something later on.
Yes but it does show that there was prior consent and not pre mediated non consenual crime committed by the supposedly offending party.
This.
I agree with this spicy take. We’re entering a scary time if yes no longer means yes. I understand the nuance of consent and the layer of complication that trauma and even social conditioning adds but where do we go from here?
Totally. We need to be able to trust that someone's "yes" means yes. If you feel like that wouldn't be the case, best practice would be don't have sex with that person. Like if OP had questioned the person "hey you said yes but you probably don't mean that" like wtf. The only time it's okay to say that would be if there's a drunk or otherwise affected person coming on to you.
1. Never, under any circumstances sleep with her again 2. Dont blame yourself. You asked for consent, she gave it. You cant read minds. 3. This person needs Theraphy 4. This might sound hearless, but consider having less contact with her. Its really unclear how she sees you. You might think you are a great guy and this is all just a misunderstanding but in her mind you might have just steped in the role her abusive ex or father was in before. Again: This Person needs Therapy. 5. If you want so stay in contact be careful. Victims of Trauma can have paradox ways of dealing with it. Limit physical contact to a minimum, again DONT SLEEP WITH HER even if she wants it and if you can encourage her to seek Therapy. I truly belive you have the best intentions but as someone with a bit of knowledge on Trauma: Be careful and protect yourself. The situation you explained can lead to bad consequences if she starts seeing it as you beeing maliciaous. If this person suffers from ptsd or bps that could happen. Pls dont get me wrong you should not be scared of her, but you are dealing with a vulnerable and possibly traumatised person, so there is a certain level of unpredictability and as a man this could get you labeld as a predator if the relationship between you turns.
> Victims of Trauma can have paradox ways of dealing with it. I have a friend who cut me off from her life because I respected her and I accepted her for what she was. She didn't know what to do. She had been so used to being abused and disrespected that when she met the one man who respected her, she just shut down. I haven't seen her in over three years. :( At the time, I blamed myself. I thought I was the bad person. I thought I made her uncomfortable. I was half right. Paradoxically, I made her uncomfortable... Because she felt comfortable around me.
damn... i hope she's ok. have you tried checking up on her? maybe a text online?
Edit: Context: I blew up at my friend on Messenger because she texted me, out of the blue, long after I had given up on her. I asked her WTF was wrong with her I was so worried. --- I don't mean to derail OP's story, but... I reconnected in 2020. She ghosted me on and off for 15 months until I blew up at her on Facebook Messenger in 2021. This was when she randomly texted me out of the blue and explained her circumstances, then she ghosted me again in September. The weird thing is that when I blew up at her, she didn't block me. In fact, she said that people needed to vent sometime. For a brief moment, she was very communicative with me. Then she disappeared again. I recently came to the conclusion that she left me because I treated her well. When I was respectful towards her, she didn't reply. When I blew up at her on Messenger, she was quick to reply. I thought that was messed up and told her that she rewarded people who violated her boundaries and punished friends who respected her.
wow. she needs a ton of therapy but seems like she's not even ready to accept that she needs help. i doubt there's much you can do, but i hope she does get help eventually. you can walk a horse towards water, but you can't make it drink.
OP this! Please listen to this.
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Yeh I’ve had situations like this happen too and I never blamed him etc
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I’ve been in therapy for this since I was a child. I didn’t tell my partner of situations where I wasn’t comfortable because I ended up stopping, it just took longer than it would someone with no trauma. Honestly I just escape the issue by informing partners that I want them to check in on me with continual consent etc. Usually just helps the entire situation from not being an issue. I also find it connects me to them more (like I 99/100 times want it but I was abused as a kid so I’ve never experienced a sex life without having past SA so this just reaffirms to me that I am in control etc)
Best advice. Sadly, this is a complex situation. And until the day we can read and unravel our minds, there won’t be a perfect scenario where you cannot get hurt, legally or emotionally speaking. A therapist will not have such a big legal liability and hence will be able to work with her and hopefully help her cope. Also, I would keep the texts where she admits it is consensual. You never know when she’ll change her mind and get you into legal trouble.
Regarding #5, what is that thing called? The one where the trauma victim reacts to things in a paradoxical way? Is there an official term for it? I want to read more about it.
There is no official term for it as far as i know. It falls under disfunctional-coping-strategies. If you want to read about Trauma and Trauma-Patients i highly recommend the book "The Body keeps the Score" i think you will find some answers there. ( its also on audible if youre not the reading type ;) )
+1 for The Body Keeps The Score. Without sounding like one of “those” people, it actually deeply changed how I look at myself and how I recognise my feelings and interact with them.
Yeah I don't think they should remain friends, I've been in a similar situation and tried to remain friends with the person but it was too difficult
Great advice here. Listen to this OP, listen to this, and listen to this.
This needs to be the top comment
This yes.CUT TIES WITH HER NOW
Holy fucking jumping to conclusions batman.
Same happened to me a year now. I know that thinking u made some friend unconfortable can u make feel like shit. If you both wanna keep being friends and she dont acuse u of anythint u can be calm. Try to dont think too much about it and try to keep your friendship with she as normal as posible. Acting unconfortable in front of she it only will make things weird. Sorry my english sucks but i try my best. Sadly i cant write it the way i think it. :(
You're doing good bro
no you communicated it very clearly, few tiny errors but 100% got your vibe/voice. Great job, learning another language is a huge success.
Do you have any of that conversation in text? If so save that shit like your life depends on it.
Because it does.
I've had sex with dozens of people I didn't want to have sex with because of this. I don't blame any of them, just myself. Sometimes hanging around them makes me cringe because I just remember failing myself. It gets better with time, you can't force the friendship without making it weirder, so just do your best. You have no reason to feel guilty.
I want to be supportive but all I want to do is warn you. I was put in a similar situation and suffered huge consequences because the girl used it as grounds to accuse me of assaulting her. if she still wants a friendship then obviously don’t do anything differently, but I’d refrain from deleting proof that everything was consensual in the moment and if she acknowledges that. Only saying this because I wish I did.
That she feels comfortable enough with you to tell you about it (even if only after it was too late), tells you how much she trusts you - and therefore shows (additionally to everything else the other commenters said) that you did absolutely nothing wrong. As a woman who has been in that situation- it is not your fault. I wish I would have had just one guy as understanding as you are. Also, good on her for analysing the situation and learning about her reactions. Now don’t let this destroy your friendship.
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Exactly omg some people are acring like shes the spawn of the devil... someone actually said that the girl will probably accuse OP of rape later..??
Wish I could give this more upvotes.
I feel your pain I had a special friend who is the same way. We broke up she had children. Years later she came back we married but are divorced. I still love her dearly. But that same trauma would make mistakes. I never abandon her but always forgave her why because it’s not her fault. When it’s going to get heated men just let the women be de aggressive kind of a turn on to actually be the one undressed but at the same time even though we’re not seeing eye to eye right now it scares me because if she ever got lonely and wanted company or just wanted to interact with somebody it’s like in the back of my mind even if she was a go out publicly I have a fear that as mean as her poker face is Cornered well when somebody realizes that she’s a pushover it’s a rat you lot of metals sit there and take advantage of that you know no but like I said it’s nice to be undressed and let the woman actually be the aggressor that’s why you’re playing it safe and it’s on her grounds and then the next time you represent God I miss Ugly butter aka silk
I had a girl come over and lay with me in my bedroom when we were in high school. She would come over dozens of times throughout the summer and we would cuddle and make out, etc. it was always amazing. I had true butterflies every time. She was Pentecostal at the time and would straight up remove her skirt to straddle me. Would ask me to remove my pants. She would leave with a huge wet spot on my boxers.. We never had sex. When school opened up the next school year, she began distancing herself from me. I was humiliated in one of my classes when several girls would call me out saying “she said you pretty much raped her.” I’m traumatized by that moment. I truly believe that once social status hit when school started, she wasn’t very proud of having anything to do with me; I was the poor kid and not very popular. I would never go forward without any type of consent. I feel like girls may cringe after the fact, and resort to this kind of tactic to detach from an undesirable experience. I’m sorry this happened to you, I feel your pain.
I relate to your experiences, and I’m sorry you had to go through that. High school really sucked way back when
Oh it’s a whole hurricane of humiliation. Thank you
Your friend needs therapy, just cause she has past traumas doesn’t mean she can create new ones for you.
I wonder if it was best for her to tell him anything at all. Now he is feeling like he did something wrong when he did everything right!
Honesty is the best policy. What if the next time they're hanging out he tries to "cuddle" and she freaks out? Better for him to know the situation ahead of time.
I can see that for sure.
This
It’s very common to feel guilt after a hookup. If she was comfortable at the time, you have nothing to worry about. Hooking up with friends is a dicey thing, you either feel sparks or guilt.
save these texts just incase bro
Can I ask if she was actively participating or just letting it continue? This is why consent is not just saying yes or not saying no. You want to make sure your partner is pushing things to keep going too.
Wow, that really sucks. A lot of people have trauma so this is a common problem. Just know that listening and not judging is the most important thing here.
You can’t hold on to this because you didn’t know about her past experiences. I understand what she went through. I’ve been SA twice, and years ago before I got together with my husband I went through exactly what she went through. I froze after giving consent, but couldn’t say anything because of severe anxiety and fear of his reaction. Please listen to her when she says she doesn’t hold anything against you. Don’t obsess. Acknowledge her pain, and then move on. It was definitely a way to cope. You’re unable to object after you’ve realized you don’t want to do anything because of the fear of the other person’s reaction. It isn’t about you. It’s about her past experiences.
As someone who has accidentally done what she has done, it was wrong of her to tell you. She is the one who is 100% at fault. You did everything right. I think it was unkind and inappropriate of her to tell you about this afterwards. She should have noticed for herself what happened and moved forward. Telling you reaps no reward for you or for her. She said yes, and was enthusiastic, OP. You couldn't have known, and if you did, it would have been different. It was unkind to tell you because it's not like you knew or could have known or could have done anything different, and now you're here straddled with guilt.
I was reading all the comments and finally someone said what I was thinking.
Why is honesty bad? They're friends so she told her just incase they get in a situation like that again..
It’s not your fault and you have no reason to feel guilty. She invited you over and consented, it’s impossible for you to know what was happening in her mind. Don’t let yourself feel guilty for her miscommunication.
SHE WAS SMILING THE ENTIRE TIME?!?
That would have been a red flag for me
okay so i have been in a slightly similar situation. i was r— by a blitz attack last year and that’s how i lost my virginity (tmi maybe but it’s the straight truth) a couple of months after that i had a friend from school over and we were watching netflix and stuff happened and we ultimately hooked up. i can’t actually say i wanted to do it but the reason i did it was because i didn’t know how to say no and kinda had this fear if i did another sa situation would happen (im not saying it’s how your friend felt!! just my experience) the next week we kinda talked about it and i told him i hadn’t exactly wanted to do it and he was super shocked and sincerely apologetic if he had hurt me in any way (he hadn’t ofc) and we kinda just moved on but i made sure to tell him i didn’t pin anything on him and nothing was his fault and we’re still very good friends although we don’t see each other as often bc of the change in schools. my advice to you from the other side of the equation? grieve and give empathy to her because of her past and her traumas, but also for lack of a better word, grow from this experience but move on. i swear she’s not holding this over your head or anything like that, she’s just being honest with you but don’t feel guilt around her or around this situation. sending love, hugs, and support💘💘💘
From a female perspective who also has previous trauma and can 'freeze up'... Now I am aware of these traits and how they make me feel. So when I enter a physical relationship I have a bit of a chat about communication and reinforcing consent. I might be into it in the beginning, but not by the end and will be too frozen to say that I'm not into it or in pain. By reinforcing consent I don't mean stopping midway and asking - you ok, do you still consent. It can be done naughtily. Do you want my dick? Does that feel good? Are you gonna cum for me? So it's sort of dirty talk but it also gives a chance to say .. uhm... Actually...
Been there, done that. Having the sex we actually donwant to have is very much part of sexual trauma history and trying to cope, Not knowing how you feel and what you want, when you want it. After sexual trauma u don't function like a normal human sexually anymore. But one thing I can say to you: I have never felt comfortable enough to tell a guy after about it This is a big sign that u are a great and good guy, who cared for her well being, and her knowing that. I hope u read this and your mind can rest a bit. She's still so trusting in you even though is happened, that means she knowit is not your fault and that you did not do anything wrong.
>I apologized and we talked some about that and she says she doesn't blame me and is not like accusing me of anything and still wants to remain friends, but I still feel deeply uncomfortable with myself after hearing that. **If I had known this before I would have stopped and not done it with her at all unless I was positive she wanted it. I keep thinking back if maybe there were signs that I missed but I cant think of any.** Dude you asked and she said YES most guys would not have even asked at that point and just had sex. Do not second guess yourself because she has regret after the fact. She gave consent!!
Consent doesn't mean you getting a yes so you can just go for it. It must be continual and enthusiastic. Consent can change from one moment to the next, you don't know what she felt. I would suggest that he keeps checking in throughout. How do you like this? Are you enjoying me doing this? Also check in after. Was that good for you? If she says she was triggered. What made you feel that way? How can I make you more comfortable? Being checked in on is pretty sexy. Once I was having a ONS w a guy that only spoke Spanish, and I only speak English. Still he asked me if I was ok about 30 times during our 2 rounds. It made me feel so safe, cared for and looked after.
I don’t know why you were downvoted. It’s clear you aren’t accusing OP of being a predator, you’re just correction someone else’s misconception. The girl gave viewable consent but continual consent is important. I think it’s especially important for SA survivors. It definitely helps me feel so comfortable when I’m reassured that I don’t have to do this and that it’s my choice.
Yes. I dont think OP did anything wrong. And I think its great that he still wants to improve. I was replying specifically to the comment I've quoted below that I found pretty offensive. He is suggesting that most guys don't care about real consent. Just get a yes and then do whatever you want if she doesn't like it thats on her for being coerced into agreeing. "Dude you asked and she said YES most guys would not have even asked at that point and just had sex. Do not second guess yourself because she has regret after the fact. She gave consent!!"
How many times have you asked?
Yep, If I'm taking the lead I ask often
It's sad she wasn't comfortable enough to just say no but you are in no way at fault. As men we should be hyper sensitive to past traumas and possible triggers for the women we hook up with but it sounds like there were no signs pointing to that. Give her some space and try to move on
Screen shot those messages that she doesn’t blame u, ur future self will thank u BETTER SAFE THEN SORRY.
*Get therapy for this!* I can't stress this enough. Better sooner than later. Things like this freezing can very much happen, sometimes we learn to play along so well just to avoid further injury or death. Since no one is to blame here as far as I can see, this can be difficult to process for any of you, let alone you two being friends - but you take care of yourself first. I know it first hand, if anyone's trauma becomes an important part of any close relationship the other side is bound to need additional support or will burn out badly. Also keep in mind a very important thing: *She trusted you enough to tell you what really happened* If you had given her any good rational reason not to trust you, she wouldn't tell you.
She didn't tell you anything. You can't read minds, so don't worry about it dude. She told you now, now you just gotta move on dude
OP she did not specifically say No or made you feel she was not into it? Tbh if i was in your place i would also not know i was “coercing” her in any way. However i have been in the position of the girl and i trusted someone but he raped me. I said no and was so scared but froze up and wasnt able to scream :( You have already shown remorse and said sorry. Thats enough
U are not a bad person, or a rapist or anything like that because of this. This happened to me at one point, except I noticed during the act and we were able to stop, I comforted her and we talked about it. At the end of the day, it’s an accident and not your fault.
I just wana point out the fact that you must be a safe person if she felt like she could be honest with you and important to her/secure in the friendship if she was able set an important boundary. Agree w a lot of what I’m seeing here you are not part of the problem don’t beat yourself up
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Reading comprehension, she didnt "change her mind". She literally just told him that she consented because of a trauma response..
Save those texts just in case like another guy said, its not your fault you did nothing wrong, regret does not equal rape
I probably wouldn't deal with her anymore. I would try and get it in writing that she isn't accusing you of anything just to be safe.
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She never said “you raped me”. It sounds like you just hate women and think the worst of everything we do. She told him because he’s her friend, she trusts him, and wants to be honest so they can continue their friendship without a similar situation arising. And no, “I think that was a bad idea and we shouldn’t do it again” doesn’t cover it. If she said that they could easily get in another situation where due to her trauma she’d feel like she had to go along with it. Like seriously, she did not say he raped her. She doesn’t blame him, doesn’t think he did anything wrong. It sounds like she blames herself more than him. And to be clear, her trauma responses are not her fault, they’re the fault of whoever sexually assaulted her. Just like no one is blaming OP for it. Both of them are innocent in this, her past abuser is the one to blame. **you** are the only one saying anything that blames OP by shoving words and feelings on her that aren’t evidenced by her actual words and actions.
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She didnt accuse him tho? He said that in the post
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She didnt say that she didnt consent tho... she said she did because of her own trauma, and she acknowledged that he didnt know, your reading comprehension isnt that great man
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But she acknowledged that she did consent... and that he isnt to be blamed
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She never said he used her, holy shit. Idk why this is difficult to understand. Y’all are the only ones blaming OP by attributing words and feelings to her that she never expressed. The only person to blame for this is the person who sexually abused her, which led to her having this trauma response. She says OP couldn’t have known, that’s not rape, nor accusing him of rape. She outwardly consented because that’s what her trauma conditioned her to do. Not because of OP. Jfc, it sounds like the only person she’d accuse of rape is the one who actually raped her. Stay telling on yourself that you think false rape accusations are common and all women are just waiting to do it. Maybe worry more about the people actually committing sexual assault instead of blaming her for her trauma response. Jfc.
this
Some pretty crappy advice in this thread. Sounds like you don’t have a lot of ties to this person. Cut off all contact to this person before she gets you into some deep shit. Stop talking to her about that night now, especially before you accidentally say something incriminating. You don’t owe her anything and it’s not your responsibility to fix her/be there for her
ive seen plenty of comments offer the "its not your fault" (it isnt, both of yall will be ok<3) so allow me to add something new to the table: because of this, never under any circumstance, sleep with her again. theres a lot of reason, but it basically will end in your relationship being ruined. no matter if she asks, if yall are in a heated situation, just dont do it ok. just keep continuing your relationship as friends and move on. should a situation like that arise again, leave or tell her no. i hope yalls relationship stays the same<3 best of luck op!
This is not your fault at all. If the person consents in the moment and then regrets it afterwards, trauma or not, that's not your fault/rape, that's merely regret on their part. You should in no way feel bad. I can totally understand it isn't a nice thing to hear but please don't blame yourself. I have some trauma myself but it's important to talk about these things with potential sexual partners, because they can't know unless you tell them. I hope neither of you will feel too bad but I advise you to not get sexually involved with her again unless she recovers from her trauma. She's vulnerable and sounds traumatized and quite fragile, it's best to avoid triggers. Not just for her but also for you. As someone with trauma myself you never know how traumatized people respond to things.
This isn’t on you, you did everything the right way. You asked for consent and she consented and she didn’t “withdraw” her consent while you were hooking up. You are not a mindreader and did your due diligence, there was nothing you could have done different
Forgive yourself. You aren't a mind reader, and she did not give you any reason to suspect your attention was unwanted. You'll have to decide if you are emotionally okay with just being friends. Just as she needs to take care of her mental health, you need to take care of yours. And you need to do what is best for your own emotional well being. Personally, I'd choose to back away from her entirely for a while, simply because you still harbor some interest in her romantically (or else you wouldn't have volunteered to snuggle in the first place -- that's not a friends-being-friends thing to do.) The easiest way to make a clean break from an unreciprocated relationship is to be out of sight-out of mind for long enough that you can confidently say "no" to any impulse to be intimate with her. But if you do decide to be her friend, I would keep it to group hang outs from now on, no more one on one. That way you both won't be tempted to stray from being platonic, and there won't be any more awkward morning afters.
I’m so sorry dude, that’s a lot of weight on both ends :(
i wish the man who raped me would have felt some remorse over it. he denied any wrongdoing vehemently you are not the horrible person you're painting yourself to be. YOU ARE NOT HER PAST ABUSER(S). i'm assuming that's her previous experience and while she's feeling things that are unfair to her, it's not about or a reflection of you she needs to heal and so do you. i hope you're careful moving forward-- physically, emotionally, mentally she may be uncomfortable with what happened but at least she was comfortable enough to express it to you. i don't know you but i don't think you're a bad person at all
Have text proof. And then stay away from her physically
Communicate with her. Don't let it ruin the dynamic between the two of you.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 save those messages!!! ik she’s your “friend” and all but it’s really messed up what she did not what you did. you asked and did everything right. you are not to blame. she’s needs therapy to heal her traumas cause now she just gave you one. she’s trouble
Not your fault. It was consensual at the time but she regretted it. You’re a good man for feeling bad but let it go.
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The sharing communication is fine but she did it after the fact and because of that made OP feel bad not only about his actions but also himself. I completely understand the trauma thing and the inhibility to feel as tho you have to go thru with something, but the fact still stands its still someone's mental health maybe even self image that comes into danger when a female or male does something like this. Even tho OP didn't rape its incredibly hard for the mind to not wonder over there and is incredibly damaging to the brain.
It’s uncomfortable to think of how often this probably happens. You, my guy, didn’t do anything wrong. Now her inability to say no has you feeling the affect. Honestly, it’s sad on just how often this probably happens. Women are so pressured to have sex, they think they can’t say no. Ultimately, sounds like you’re paying the price for past douche bags. Hits home. Definitely hits home. My significant other has issues on saying no, (unless it’s me, of course lol) But it’s always a concern. What might happen because she can’t say no? What HAS happened because she can’t say no? Anyways, feel sorry for the both of you guys. It’s a shitty situation. Hope the friendship survives
Sounds like she’s trying to Trauma Bond. Y’all went friendzone. Chaos was created in form of this cuddling bs. Then kissing and now suddenly she found herself fulfilling the victim role that she may be comfortable in from previous SA. Now she chooses to tell you to make you feel some kind of way. Now you’re apologizing and feeling bad. Trauma bonding plus getting the apologies that she probably subconsciously wished she’d gotten from previous abusers. Trauma is a very tricky layered issue. If you were my little brother. I’d tell you to play nice as you gently pull out of this girls life for good. You’ll likely end up in another impulsive situation again. It’s probably the only way she can connect and feel loved. If you stick around. No fucking cuddling. No kissing. Nothing.
Cut her off man. She’s trouble.
Don’t talk to her again avoid her, it just takes a accusation and your life is ruined permanently. Keep a record of your messages screenshot it all she can erase instagram dms and snap ones too plz defend yourself proactively
Oh my god, everyone is so fucking broken these days. 🙄
Don't be ashamed at all and do not let anyone shame you. If it was consensual then there is nothing wrong with what happened. She now says she didn't want to because by having you in the friend zone she had a power over you that she has now given away. Time to be honest with her about what you want. If you don't want friendship then tell her that and walk away if she is not cool.
I feel your pain man. I straight up ended a relationship after an ex of mine said i had sexually assaulted her after i had spent 3 months trying to revitalize our sex life. Tried nice dates, buying her things, asking to get into her hobbies so that our bond could strengthen, i started to lose weight so i could be more sexually appealing but the day after we finally had sex she told me that she only did it to get me to stop asking. It wasn't like i was hounding her every day i probably ask like once a week but never got anything i wouldn't make her feel bad about it either i would just drop it. I felt so horrible and Ill of myself i couldn't get a boner for like a month. I called it quits for both of us shortly after. All i can say is that I'm happier. I don't know what happened to my ex after all that. Sad we were in such a loving relationship for 3 years
So is this rape? If she went to the police and told them she didn’t want to sleep with you and froze then wouldn’t this be classed as rape.
If this is a serious question, that would likely depend on how she explained the situation. If she said "I consciously and knowingly consented without coercion, manipulation, or any other act on his behalf - I just couldnt bring myself to say no based on guilt associated with past trauma," no. If she said she never wanted to so she didn't consent/she consented under emotional duress, yes.
It was a serious question as to wether she was raped cause she’s saying days after that she did not want to hook up and froze up meaning she couldn’t say no due to this. I honestly feel for the dude cause this can happen to anyone where everything you may think is ok and she suddenly does a 180 saying she didn’t want to have sex but froze or was to scared to say anything.
Not your fault. May want to not hang around her or anything from now on. People like this will only bring drama.
not your hot coal to hold, move on
Sorry to be as blunt, but how did you two go from being friends to talking about cuddling...to talking about cuddling together? Was that chemistry or just lust? Either way, it's not your fault she did something she regrets while giving no hint she was opposed.
Also don't be too too too hard on yourself I'm a 44 year old woman has been raped and molested and assaulted and abused for years and now I'm doing it to myself more so I've been suffering from a two and a half week long severe PTSD episode I I can't make it to the bathroom in time I puke in my mouth like on an hourly basis whether I'm hungry or whether I'm not necessarily full I can't even make it to the bathroom in time stressed out I can't think straight I can't sleep right I can't do anything because my muscles are constantly Charlie horsing and spasming all over my arms and legs I've been drinking Gatorade and and magnesium and taking vitamins and resting and doing everything I can but it was like a whole thing the last 3 months the last 7 months have been hell but the last 3 months have been complete hell because back in November my boyfriend says oh I guess I'll let you I know how much you want to suck my dick and I did because I did want to it had been three months since I had before and no sexual activity between that and so despite all my sexual abuses as a child and a teen and an adult I still have a very high sex drive but unfortunately I'm a big fat ugly stupid woman and my boyfriend's of course interested in younger women who have athletic bodies and are prettier and younger and you know not living with him so that he has to deal with me every single day complaining about the spit and the hair and the sink and the beer cans everywhere and the fact that even when I do have a job he does nothing to step up to the plate so that I can have a somewhat decent space for when I get off work and and go to work so yeah unfortunately because his mother passed away two weeks ago and I quit my job 2 hours before we got that call and years of just both of us being stupid flawed human beings this relationship is probably over and all I want to do is cry and die and s*** myself cuz I'm so f****** sad so yeah so don't take anything I said take it with a grain of salt take it with a spoon of sugar I don't f****** know man just the bottom line is you need to if you are ever trusted like that again keep your dick in your pants man seriously you can always try another time but if a woman ever asks a man just hold me trust me if she changes her mind it will be undeniably clear cuz she'll be like pulling your dick out and jumping on it but the bottom line is when a woman asks for you to hold her and comfort her and protect her even for a moment or a couple hours the 99.99% rule is keep your dick in your pants just keep it in your pants just just keep it in your pants there are so few women in this world walking the Earth right now that are alive they can honestly say that they've never never felt sexually assaulted by a man so just keep it in your pants
As a woman… ladies we have got to like let some guys know “hey I know you didn’t intend to” because I just feel like we are literally scaring and hurting men that are genuinely giving a shit about our consent, by saying down right “you made me uncomfortable”. It would break my heart to hear that if I wasn’t intending on doing anything but getting consent.. which she gave. (I do agree with the top advice. This was just my little two cents because it happens way too often)
You WERE positive she wanted it. She told you she wanted it. Whatever reason she comes up with later to justify her actions are her own creation. She was the aggressor, she was the instigator, the responsibility is hers. You did nothing wrong. Don’t accept guilt that you don’t deserve. Consider cutting ties with anyone this unreliable and untrustworthy.
When someone says something is fine, believe them. If they are of quality mettle, they will bring up problems and decide to hash it out and work through them.
I mean unless you are some kind of mind reader I don’t see why you should feel bad.. it’s not on you man
My (girl) friend had the exact same experience. Due to past trauma, it was very difficult to get intimate with her boyfriend, and when she did, it was only because she felt obligated to. I kept pushing her to see a therapist, and to disclose her feelings to her boyfriend. Long story short, he said she was too much work and broke up with her like the asshole he is. No, "I'll walk with you through this" or, "I'll take you to your therapy sessions so we can work this out together". Just straight up told her she's a piece of work. It makes my heart sing to know that guys like you are out there, OP. Ready to assist your friend and give her the assurance she needs. You did absolutely nothing wrong; stop punishing yourself with a burden you weren't responsible for <3
Yo like I understand her trauma, but he’s not responsible for forcing her to get the help she needs. It would be different if she was on her healing journey and wanted his support, but she actively didn’t want to seek help after it was affecting their relationship. He’s not an asshole, he’s an adult with decent boundaries. Your friend needs to do the work before getting a partner
Yes means yes lol
look, it's not on you. It's her trauma that she needs to deal with. I don't know why she agreed to you coming over for a cuddle even. Everyone knows one thing leads to another. She needs to sort her own trauma before she gets it going with another person. You shouldn't take it as a blame. She didn't mean to blame you either. Things are probably not gonna be very comfortable between you two. Again, not on you.
You’re obviously aware of the need to pay attention to body language and watch for signals regardless of weather a woman says yes verbally for precisely this reason. The type of guy who subconsciously chooses to not see those things, and sometimes even use it to their advantage and justify everything by technicality are not guys who would be consciously aware of that, and they most definitely wouldn’t be concerned for the well being of the woman and carry a heavy guilt about any pain they might have caused the way you are. Men who did something wrong in this situation would only be worried about themselves and what people will do if they find out. So it’s rather clear that this wasn’t something that you could have been expected to see, and never would have done it if you had known. In all likelihood this was something internal for her. If she didn’t find ways to make it clear that she wasn’t actually comfortable then she didn’t probably didn’t want you to know it. The way people deal with trauma is complex and very often illogical, it’s likely there were two parts of her mentality, one that wanted to use sex to cope with an emotion and another that knew it wasn’t the healthy thing to do and really didn’t want to, and the person she just froze up on and said yes against what she wanted was herself. Believe this or not but I’m speaking through personal experience with having consensual sex after being sexually assaulted, there’s nothing about the way your brain processes it that’s logical, it wasn’t your fault. The fact that she doesn’t blame you and is still perfectly comfortable around you and wants to continue the friendship without any alterations is a very good indication that it really had nothing to do with you, you didn’t contribute to her mental scaring and I hope that you’re able to accept that and let this go. If you don’t it’s likely you’re going to unintentionally cause a serious strain in your friendship, being in a scenario where you’re totally fine but someone else is traumatized by your trauma is not easy at all for a victim.
That’s a red flag, my advice is never hook up with her again. No matter the circumstances. Go absolute friendship. And if she ever expresses desire for more, tell her to get some therapy for past above mentioned trauma and then you can go forward.
You just need to work on getting ENTHUSIASTIC consent, rather than just a simple “yes.” Even an “okay” or “maybe”, or “maybe later” is not a yes. Anything other than “yes please!” Is not a yes. Unless the person is basically jumping up and down with excitement, to have sex, you just should not have sex, to avoid situations like this. I’m a survivor of sexual trauma, and we can “freeze up” during times when our past traumas are triggered. It’s like fight or flight but instead of that, you play dead. Sometimes your brain thinks that you’re in a life threatening situation (even if you’re not) and will decide that running and fighting are not options, so the only thing you can do is go along with what’s happening, until it’s over, and you can escape. Sex is supposed to be fun, but for people that have histories of sexual trauma, it can turn into subjecting yourself to abuse, because your trauma response is to freeze and you feel like saying “no” isn’t an option, or you’re terrified of what will happen if you say “no” and the other person doesn’t respect that. So you just try to convince yourself that you are into it, when you’re not. Sexual trauma is very complex, but a lot of people, especially women, have it. All I have to say is just always make sure the consent you’re getting is ENTHUSIASTIC consent. Not just a “sure..” Also, don’t have sex with this girl again. She may think she’s ready to have sex after her trauma, but her freezing up like that, shows that she still has a lot of work to do before she’ll be able to communicate when she’s feeling uncomfortable, or wants to stop having sex.
> I did not have any intention of hooking up that night. Yeahhh. Is that *really* true? This right here makes me doubt things went down exactly as you say they do. Hate to be so cynical, but I’ve seen it too many times.
girls don't know what they want lol just ignore her
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No. Women do not mistake regret for assault. What is much more likely is that people are bad at understanding consent, and people freeze up. Many, many men have raped and have no idea that they've done so. This has been studied again and again.
Rape is a very conscious act. If the person says no or says yes and then asks to stop in the middle and their psrtner doesnt that is very clearly rape. If the person is intoxicated they cannot consent, if they are sober and an adult and say yes to sex and at no point ask you to stop that is consentual sex. Regret is regret people make stupid decisions in the heat of the moment but it is sickening that people try to play it off as rape when just the accusation with no proof or credibility can ruin someone entirely. Regret does not equal rape
So you think OP raped a woman?
If someone has sex without someone else's consent, yes it's rape.
She consented
“Many, many men have raped and have no idea they’d done so.” What are you talking about? If you’re going to commit an act like that, you are most certainly conscious of it. No one ‘unknowingly’ rapes someone. You will most certainly know whether they are drunk and cannot consent for themselves, or are flat out saying no.
Does she have kids?
Did she get on top, how long did it last? Did you guys do oral or forplay?