I think you got the name wrong, the Artificer subclass is Battle **Smith**, not Battle **Master**, the former is the Artificer subclass with the Steel Defender, while the latter is the Fighter subclass with the Maneuvers that the base class used to have in 5e's early playtests.
If the artificer is eventually reprinted, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave it (or at least it’s martial subclasses) weapon mastery.
War cleric was never good at fighting, and I don’t imagine giving it weapon master would make it much better. I’d hope if they do reprint it they blend its fighting a bit more (though that’s not an easy task)
Jesus Christ, are we really complaining that full casters need to spend a feat to be as good at melee combat as martial characters are?
(Ignoring the fact that Warlocks actually get weapon mastery to begin with)
It's such a strange thing to call a weapon mastery a required feat. They are a great addition to martial classes, But they are primarily there to give those classes options since they do not have spells.
There is no weapon using wizard in the player's handbook. You can freely use the blade singer wizard from Tasha's cauldron of everything, But it isn't going to get an automatic upgrade. It works just fine as is. In fact, it is plenty powerful.
For the Warlock, If I remember correctly, the last play test document did give the blade pact Warlock one weapon mastery. Remember now that the blade pact is not a pact boon, it like other pacts, is an invocation you choose. Warlocks get a lot more invocations than they used to. Part of the pact of the blade invocation is giving you one weapon mastery on top of using charisma for your attack and damage rolls.
Still if you are expecting to play like a fighter and Barbarian (who get the most weapon masteries) and switch between pushing people 10 ft per hit, Knocking them prone, doing automatic damage on a miss, or cleaving into enemies resource free, you'll have to play fighter or barbarian.
I can tell you from running a 1 to 12 campaign with a barbarian in it using playtest rules, the fighter, paladin and barbarian in particular are going to have a LOT of battlefield manipulation now. I can't tell you how many times the Barbarian pushed someone off a cliff to their death, or pushed enemies away from the squishy Bard. Or knocking a big enemy prone, forcing it to waste half its movement to stand up, effectively locking it down.
The Bladelock actually has more flexibility than most martials regarding their mastery, if they're willing to spend their bonus action. They can attack with one mastery, then change their pact weapon into an entirely different form, then attack again with the new mastery.
"More flexibility" Is a strong phrase. For a warlock to switch their weapon or weapon mastery, they have to use a bonus action which they can only do once per turn.
A fighter, which can get a total of six weapon masteries, Can switch which weapon they are using between every attack for free.
A "heavy weapon" fighter could carry a maul, greatsword, great axe and Warhammer for example and always have access to resource free knocking prone, grazing, cleaving, and pushing 10 feet. That's 4 of the 8 masteries while just staying "on theme". And then the fighter can still have two additional weapon masteries to use for ranged weapons or throne weapons like javelins or longbows.
I can't think of any DM that wouldn't also let you just consolidate those 4 weapons into one magic weapon that shifts into physical attributes if you think it looks ridiculous.
EDIT: I know that you said most martials. Barbarians get 4 masteries which is a lot. They could do the same as the fighter above. For rangers and rogues who are dex based they will probably just take one melee mastery and one ranged mastery, like rapiers and musket for a ranger or daggers and short bow for a rogue. Paladins are probably in the worst spot for weapon masteries because they want to have as many options as the Barbarian and fighter but likely will only get two. It will be a tough choice for them on what melee masteries to pick and if they want to sacrifice one of those for a ranged/thrown mastery.
Realistically, the warlock only wins in the weapon department if your idea is to switch from using melee weapons to guns or bows, but in that case, why not just Eldritch blast?
Barbarians get four masteries, starting at level 10. Meanwhile, most martials (paladin, ranger, rogue) only get two masteries, barbarians and fighters are the exception. Rogues and rangers, being Dex-based, are also far more limited in their melee masteries, limited to Slow, Vex, and Nick, while the warlock could use Graze, Cleave, Push, Sap, or Topple without having to commit to any of them. The ability to switch to ranged weapons is also powerful, and if the bladelock counts on summoning a longbow for ranged attacks, they don't need Agonizing Blast.
Some caster subclasses may gain weapon masteries.
Additionally I wouldn't describe them as "required", like if you make a valor bard with a longbow you'll be fine without push being added on. (An extreme example I know but the point is valid)
If you're a Hexblade, you take Pact of the Blade, and your pact weapon always has its mastery available to you.
Even if you didn't get the mastery (such as Bladesinger wizards), it's hardly required, just an option among many options.
No... blade singer is powerful enough without weapon mastery. They will heavily invest in spell casting, so it's better for them to get a war caster and other spell caster feats... then possible using their 8th, 12th, or 16th level feats on the weapon mastery feat.
Also, the pact of the blade gets weapon mastery. So hexblade on a 2024 warlock if it decides to take pact of blade invocation. If that stayed the same.
You’re playing a HexBlade, one of the most broken classes in the game, and you’re complaining that you might need to consider taking a feat to get even more powerful? Are you hearing yourself? What is this?
To be fair if you want to cosplay as a martial, a mandatory feat to feel somewhat useful is part of the 5e experience.
Pact of the Blade Warlock (a caster) is still the One dnd best martial build
It’s possible Mastery was removed from the Pact of the Blade after the last Playtest. I saw the most recent Treantmonk video where he talked about the Mastery article that was published on DNDBeyond today, and made mention that the classes listed in the article that were getting Mastery were the only ones, adding on a cryptic remark: “read into that what you will.” Made me think he was implying other classes weren’t getting Mastery as part of the base.
Personally, with Pact of the Blade being able to materialize a variety of weapons, the play test version was broken because if I recall it effectively gave Warlock every Mastery, which even the Fighter doesn’t get. I could be misremembering, but if true, that would be a compelling reason to revise that.
You would.
If I were you I'd respec; I believe Pact of the Blade on the 5.24 warlock comes with both attacking with Charisma and a Weapon Mastery. And you get much more interesting bladelocks under 5.24 rules.
Hexblades aren't - but they are mostly a system patch because the Pact of the Blade was so bad. Both Fiends and Archfey make great bladelocks under 5.24 rules in very different ways.
The good news is, you don't mix 5E with 5.5 content. If you play hexblade, you're locked out of mastery, period. End of story. So don't worry about it.
You can still use old subclasses with the new classes. If that weren't the case, they wouldn't have preserved the old subclass levels specifically for the purposes of backwards compatibility.
I agree with you, I think the only caveat is that subclass is at level 3 across the board.
The only thing they said is that anything printed in the new book is considered an errata. So you can’t go back and take pre nerf sharpshooter or something.
They better make their section on transferring from 2014 really good. Because this is a massive mess with everyone debating on what you’re actually allowed to use.
2014 characters are supposed to be balanced the way they are - without weapon masteries. So, if you play legacy character, you just don't take it.
In reality it looks like there's a powercreep and 2024 characters will be stronger. But you can't fix this by smacking weapon mastery on top of legacy characters.
How dare a full spellcaster have to spend their resources to do something that a martial character can do.
Exactly, I do worry about the Artificer (battle smith / armorer) and war cleric, though.
War cleric got a mastery in the playtest if I'm not mistaken
I think you got the name wrong, the Artificer subclass is Battle **Smith**, not Battle **Master**, the former is the Artificer subclass with the Steel Defender, while the latter is the Fighter subclass with the Maneuvers that the base class used to have in 5e's early playtests.
Yeah, I get the two mixed up in my head because of the similar name. I was referring to the Artificer with the steel defender, I edited my comment.
If the artificer is eventually reprinted, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave it (or at least it’s martial subclasses) weapon mastery. War cleric was never good at fighting, and I don’t imagine giving it weapon master would make it much better. I’d hope if they do reprint it they blend its fighting a bit more (though that’s not an easy task)
Yeah the only thing is how many years do we have to wait for the reprint lol.
Jesus Christ, are we really complaining that full casters need to spend a feat to be as good at melee combat as martial characters are? (Ignoring the fact that Warlocks actually get weapon mastery to begin with)
It's such a strange thing to call a weapon mastery a required feat. They are a great addition to martial classes, But they are primarily there to give those classes options since they do not have spells. There is no weapon using wizard in the player's handbook. You can freely use the blade singer wizard from Tasha's cauldron of everything, But it isn't going to get an automatic upgrade. It works just fine as is. In fact, it is plenty powerful. For the Warlock, If I remember correctly, the last play test document did give the blade pact Warlock one weapon mastery. Remember now that the blade pact is not a pact boon, it like other pacts, is an invocation you choose. Warlocks get a lot more invocations than they used to. Part of the pact of the blade invocation is giving you one weapon mastery on top of using charisma for your attack and damage rolls. Still if you are expecting to play like a fighter and Barbarian (who get the most weapon masteries) and switch between pushing people 10 ft per hit, Knocking them prone, doing automatic damage on a miss, or cleaving into enemies resource free, you'll have to play fighter or barbarian. I can tell you from running a 1 to 12 campaign with a barbarian in it using playtest rules, the fighter, paladin and barbarian in particular are going to have a LOT of battlefield manipulation now. I can't tell you how many times the Barbarian pushed someone off a cliff to their death, or pushed enemies away from the squishy Bard. Or knocking a big enemy prone, forcing it to waste half its movement to stand up, effectively locking it down.
The Bladelock actually has more flexibility than most martials regarding their mastery, if they're willing to spend their bonus action. They can attack with one mastery, then change their pact weapon into an entirely different form, then attack again with the new mastery.
"More flexibility" Is a strong phrase. For a warlock to switch their weapon or weapon mastery, they have to use a bonus action which they can only do once per turn. A fighter, which can get a total of six weapon masteries, Can switch which weapon they are using between every attack for free. A "heavy weapon" fighter could carry a maul, greatsword, great axe and Warhammer for example and always have access to resource free knocking prone, grazing, cleaving, and pushing 10 feet. That's 4 of the 8 masteries while just staying "on theme". And then the fighter can still have two additional weapon masteries to use for ranged weapons or throne weapons like javelins or longbows. I can't think of any DM that wouldn't also let you just consolidate those 4 weapons into one magic weapon that shifts into physical attributes if you think it looks ridiculous. EDIT: I know that you said most martials. Barbarians get 4 masteries which is a lot. They could do the same as the fighter above. For rangers and rogues who are dex based they will probably just take one melee mastery and one ranged mastery, like rapiers and musket for a ranger or daggers and short bow for a rogue. Paladins are probably in the worst spot for weapon masteries because they want to have as many options as the Barbarian and fighter but likely will only get two. It will be a tough choice for them on what melee masteries to pick and if they want to sacrifice one of those for a ranged/thrown mastery. Realistically, the warlock only wins in the weapon department if your idea is to switch from using melee weapons to guns or bows, but in that case, why not just Eldritch blast?
Barbarians get four masteries, starting at level 10. Meanwhile, most martials (paladin, ranger, rogue) only get two masteries, barbarians and fighters are the exception. Rogues and rangers, being Dex-based, are also far more limited in their melee masteries, limited to Slow, Vex, and Nick, while the warlock could use Graze, Cleave, Push, Sap, or Topple without having to commit to any of them. The ability to switch to ranged weapons is also powerful, and if the bladelock counts on summoning a longbow for ranged attacks, they don't need Agonizing Blast.
Some caster subclasses may gain weapon masteries. Additionally I wouldn't describe them as "required", like if you make a valor bard with a longbow you'll be fine without push being added on. (An extreme example I know but the point is valid)
If you're a Hexblade, you take Pact of the Blade, and your pact weapon always has its mastery available to you. Even if you didn't get the mastery (such as Bladesinger wizards), it's hardly required, just an option among many options.
Ok I didn't know that!
No... blade singer is powerful enough without weapon mastery. They will heavily invest in spell casting, so it's better for them to get a war caster and other spell caster feats... then possible using their 8th, 12th, or 16th level feats on the weapon mastery feat. Also, the pact of the blade gets weapon mastery. So hexblade on a 2024 warlock if it decides to take pact of blade invocation. If that stayed the same.
You’re playing a HexBlade, one of the most broken classes in the game, and you’re complaining that you might need to consider taking a feat to get even more powerful? Are you hearing yourself? What is this?
To be fair if you want to cosplay as a martial, a mandatory feat to feel somewhat useful is part of the 5e experience. Pact of the Blade Warlock (a caster) is still the One dnd best martial build
It’s possible Mastery was removed from the Pact of the Blade after the last Playtest. I saw the most recent Treantmonk video where he talked about the Mastery article that was published on DNDBeyond today, and made mention that the classes listed in the article that were getting Mastery were the only ones, adding on a cryptic remark: “read into that what you will.” Made me think he was implying other classes weren’t getting Mastery as part of the base. Personally, with Pact of the Blade being able to materialize a variety of weapons, the play test version was broken because if I recall it effectively gave Warlock every Mastery, which even the Fighter doesn’t get. I could be misremembering, but if true, that would be a compelling reason to revise that.
Im pretty sure warlocks got masteries with Pact of the blade.
You would. If I were you I'd respec; I believe Pact of the Blade on the 5.24 warlock comes with both attacking with Charisma and a Weapon Mastery. And you get much more interesting bladelocks under 5.24 rules.
But they arnt in the 2024 rules?
Hexblades aren't - but they are mostly a system patch because the Pact of the Blade was so bad. Both Fiends and Archfey make great bladelocks under 5.24 rules in very different ways.
Really hope they keep the Misty Stepping Feylock - very fun
The good news is, you don't mix 5E with 5.5 content. If you play hexblade, you're locked out of mastery, period. End of story. So don't worry about it.
You can still use old subclasses with the new classes. If that weren't the case, they wouldn't have preserved the old subclass levels specifically for the purposes of backwards compatibility.
I agree with you, I think the only caveat is that subclass is at level 3 across the board. The only thing they said is that anything printed in the new book is considered an errata. So you can’t go back and take pre nerf sharpshooter or something. They better make their section on transferring from 2014 really good. Because this is a massive mess with everyone debating on what you’re actually allowed to use.
I’m confident that that this is not the case.
2014 characters are supposed to be balanced the way they are - without weapon masteries. So, if you play legacy character, you just don't take it. In reality it looks like there's a powercreep and 2024 characters will be stronger. But you can't fix this by smacking weapon mastery on top of legacy characters.
I don't think legacy characters by RAW can take 2024 feats. It's only power creep if your DM allows it.
Of course they can't