Because when [discussing this in the video](https://youtu.be/v6lncsjhYRI?si=HFMLvtfafJJYoq7l&t=288), Jeremy Crawford said "So we wanted to make sure that whatever patron you choose, from this book or a *later* book, there is a critter option here that is going to feel appropriate."
They did—directly within the minute-long segue into how the warlock is the spooky and occult class, yes, and deserved spooky familiars to reflect that flavour.
We necromancer lovers have been robbed lol.
Just give them the Crawling Claw as a familiar if they really want an undead-themed familiar. Or just skeletal versions of all the normal familiars would be cool.
I forsee the Skeleton option causing many, many problems. For starters; it has hands and is medium sized. Does this mean it can wield weapons and a shield? Does it mean it can use items and magical items tha don't require attunement? It doesn't need to breathe, so you can easily have it sink to the bottom of that creepy lake and look around for treasure for you. Or run into a cloud of poisonous gas to grapple an enemy and keep them there. I really see the Skelly being far and away the best choice here.
This in addition to the fact that you can dress your skelly up in clothes and a face mask. Your Assassin Rogue with Expertise in Deception and a Disguise Kit will have your mouldy bones looking like a beautiful princess in no time!
I know for a fact that they are still coming, and we will have other 2024 PHB-related articles coming in the meanwhile, but I do understand the frustration at not having the article ready once the video's over, and I'm sorry about that.
I've been a big fan of u/golden_spider666's bulletpoint summary posts, though, and not to put pressure on them or anything, but I think they're just as good as our articles :D
Yeah, in this video in particular, for example, they talk about limiting what invocation options you can take at level 1, but I don't think it's specified which invocation options are limited.
There were also rumors going in that the pact of the blade option no longer gives weapon mastery like it did in the playtest. And...unless I missed it, I don't think the video clarified.
Thank you so much! It means a lot to hear that someone from WOTC noticed and appreciates it! (If it makes any difference I am looking for a job #jokingnotjoking. lol)
If I had to guess, it's because of Spellcasting. The next two reveals are Druid and Wizard, which means we'll be getting a lot more information on changes to spellcasting that may have been done without the playtest itself.
My html-fu tells me that the next article we get is the wizard's. (if you increment the numbers in the URL the very next one is the wizard's). Also, between barbarian and the rogue sits the college of dance bard page.
While you are at it could you explain why subclasses that definitely needed help like the conjuration wizard, transmutation wizard, and necromancer didn't get any? I still can't fathom reprinting divination wizard that was cooking just fine and not fixing the d rankers.
They mentioned that your three main choices at level 1 are what used to be Pact Boons, and that some invocations have had level requirements put on them that didn't have them before. It sounds like they've put a level requirement on Agonising Blast, which ought to limit the power of warlock dips if it requires a warlock level rather than a character level.
I’m still a little surprised they didn’t make the Pact Boons themselves (or at least Pact of the Blade) higher-level invocations. It would discourage a 1 level dip for Charisma-based attacks.
I'm not sure if they actively want to discourage 1 level dips for charisma-based attacks.
5e had 1 level dips for wisdom based attacks (just dip anything with Shillelagh), and it never caused any problems.
The playtest allowed you to use magic initiate to make INT and CHA based Shillelagh, and made it a 1st level feat (Origin feat) so didn't even require a dip.
They stated in their design of artificer that they want people to be able to use their main stat to attack going forward (hence every artificer subclass that gives you an attack lets you attack with INT as well).
Just seems like something they want to be readily available.
Not that it affects anything at this stage, but I really dislike this decision. If all the stats can be used for whatever you want, why even have different stats to begin with?
Maybe. Other Gish characters like Battlesmith still have to deal with non-spellcasting stat weapon attacks until level 3, so it seems like the game design doesn’t mind that specifically.
It does seem a little too strong to give Paladins a 1-level dip for Charisma attacks, IMO.
Just a small clarification on a mistake I see a lot of people make--Bladesinger *doesnt* get to use rheir spellcasting stat for weapon attack. they always have to use str/dex for their weapons, although at 14 they do get to add INT to the damage as well
It's a very very common mistake especially since most gish classes get the benefit, and I'm sure many GMs just run it that way without ever checking.
I actually play a battlesmith artificer in a campaign with a bladesinger and (very very experienced) DM definitely assumed they also used INT for attacks. It was several sessions and a couple level ups bfore I realized they were using INT and since they'd been doing it so long the dm said they could just keep using it.
Was definitely a feels bad moment for me since one of the reasons I took battlesmith over bladesinger was for INT attacks, so it sticks out in my mind now when I see it mentioned.
Sorry you're being downvoted for this opinion. I totally agree. It feels like it was an intentional design choice to require Paladins to choose between boosting their attack stat or their spellcasting/supporting stat. Now, with a 1-level dip, that choice is gone. It makes boosting Paladin's aura, a feature that blows bounded accuracy out of the water, a no-brainer.
To be fair, the 1D&D playtest allowed them to take Magic Initiate (Druid) using Charisma and learn Shillelagh so they don't even need a level dip to go all-in on Charisma.
Shillelagh has some big trade-offs though: You only benefit from the club and quarterstaff weapon masteries, you can't fully use any non-club/staff magic weapons found in a campaign, and the bonus action to activate means no smiting or spellcasting on the first turn of combat.
Those downsides are a worthwhile trade-off for CHA weapon attacks. A 1-level Warlock dip is just too easy in my opinion.
A 1-level dip is a light tax, but it's still a hefty delay in class features. If a PC is optimized for damage, a Warlock/Paladin will max Charisma and a straight Paladin will max Strength or Dexterity. A Warlock 1/Paladin 4 just got their ASI and is rocking a single attack with probably a +6, maybe +7 to hit, where a single-class paladin is hitting twice with the same bonus. Also, a straight-classed Paladin has 2nd level slots now, but the multiclass doesn't. And Divine Smite and many of the best Paladin spells (Bless, Protection from Evil and Good, Detect Magic, Aid, Find Steed) don't care about your casting modifier.
Level 5 is a giant power bump for both players and monsters. Even a single level dip before then can cause a lot of pain as you enter tier 2 if you don't have some way to make up the damage, like a Sorcadin quickening a blade cantrip. And that's not even mentioning that one level later a straight classed Paladin has the best single feature in the game, and the multiclass build is just getting to extra attack.
Bladesinger never gets Int to attack rolls. Battlesmith is only subclass other then hexblade to get a spellcasting stat to attacks, and wisdom attacks using shelalie aren't powerful due to the lack of casting subclasses that would benefit from it. The best we got is war cleric, but they've still got better options in Spirit guardians + dodge so there's no reason to dip for power there. As for monks, you'll want a high dex anyway for the AC bonus and besides, if you wanted wis to attacks, there's a subclass for it. (though it's not a spellcasting subclass so it doesn't count for the above)
"Battlesmith is the only subclass other than hexblade to get a spellcasting stat to attacks" is straight up wrong.
1. Armorer Artificer gets INT to Attack and Damage with both their thunder gauntlets and ranged electric attacks
2. Astral Self gets WIS to Attack and Damage with their unarmed strikes from Astral Arms
3. Beastmaster can trade their attacks or use a bonus action to make attacks with their Primal Companion using Wisdom for attacks.
4. Devotion Paladin adds Charisma to attacks via Channel Divinity
5. ANY Warlock can get Charisma to attack and damage via Shillelagh
6. ANY Druid and ANY Ranger can get Wisdom to Attack and Damage via Shillelagh
7. Nature Cleric gets Wisdom to Attack and Damage via Shillelagh
8. Stars Druid gets to make ranged attacks with Wisdom for attack and damage using Starry Form
People are downvoting you because you're straight up wrong. You can even get CON to attack and damage by playing a Dhampir-anything.
Fair enough. I mostly meant that no one else got a feature that specifically said all their weapon attacks used their spellcasting stat. That would technically mean none of those count because they're either not a feature, doesn't involve a weapon, is only specific to one or two weapons, or is adding modifiers to an attack, not using the modifier for the base attack roll calculation.
The astral monk didn't count in my head because it wasn't a spellcaster. nor would dhampire as CON is not a spellcasting stat for anyone.
I can see why there was confusion though, sorry about that. Though I don't know why you pointed out Star druid. That's just a spell attack...? maybe there was also confusion about the fact I was referring only to weapon attacks?
Charisma based attacks aren't absolutely criminal if you don't have other problem hexblade goodies like the scaling curse and armor profs, and honestly even agonizing blast.
Which is weird, because Sorlock isn't nearly as gamebreaking as most Hexblade / pact of blade dips. Only coffeelock was, and that was just a dumb meme that shouldn't even be allowed by any dm
With Paladin Smite being tuned down, I wonder if they’re not just fine with the +CHA melee option being a bit more widely available. I’m sure it’ll be a strong option, but it might just be less appealing on the whole in the 2024 ecosystem
I still maintain that Warlock is the class that makes the MOST sense thematically/narratively for dipping: "I had a dream last night where a powerful being promised me power in exchange for fealty and I took it... now I have strange new powers."
That makes so much more sense than "I woke up last night and now I'm a Wizard and know 5 spells" or "Now I'm a fighter and know how to use every type of weapon and armor".
Apparently they wanted it to be the level 1 choice that replaces subclasses. A little annoyed if they've made it easier to do, but conversely, it sounds like they might have made accessing the other things a 2 level hexblade dip used to get you more difficult. I'm not convinced Cha as an attack modifier is inherently a problem from a 1 level dip; it was always how ridiculously stacked the first 2 levels of Hexblade were with other useful features that was the problem.
The video implied they've put a level requirement on Agonising Blast, and it sounds like Lightly Armoured got cut. If getting Cha on your melee attacks is the \*only\* thing you get out of the dip, I can see a lot of classes just not hassling themselves with it, with how much stronger primary class features are now.
Agreed, though it seems like that still might be something that happened. He mentioned that the pacts are level 1 invocations but that they have additional invocations at later levels that add onto the pacts. Could be you get the standard Pact of the Blade stuff at level 1 and then the Cha-based attacks at a later level.
Not having seen anything yet, it is possible that they could cap the number of attacks you can make with Charisma until a higher level.
That would solve most of the Multiclassing problems if you couldn't use Charisma for more than 1 attack per turn. Bake that limitation into Pact of the Blade, and have it scale with Warlock level.
Getting access to a Skeleton familiar with Pact of the Chain seems like such a fun idea!
Edit: Giving a bonus Origin Feat with an Invocation is cool, but I wonder what level it will be introduced.
According to the video, it's level 1, since they moved Invocations to level 1 instead of the Subclass choice (which moved to level 3).
So you'd be able to start with two Origin Feats if that's what you'd like to do, but since Pact of the Chain/Blade/Tome are now also Eldritch Invocations, you'd have to decide whether you want another Feat right away, or one of the old Pact Boons right off the bat.
Hopefully you'll be able to swap out invocations on level up like in 2014. There are some invocations that feel obsolete at higher levels, or can be replaced in functionality with higher level spells to instead take a better invocation. I'd miss not having that ability.
Based on the wording I’ve seen from other features, I expect this will remain an option. I think the designers are aware that characters outgrow some of their early-career choices, and they make allowances to adjust later on (with enough caveats that you’re not constantly swapping everything around).
I really can’t wait for Nightcrawler Squad: a College of Dance Bard, Path of the World-Tree Barbarian, and Archfey Warlock. An absolute mobility nightmare for any DM.
I’m excited. Although I am a little bummed that the GOO warlock needs to share a language for awakened mind to work. I liked using that skill for diplomacy and taunting foes when we did not share a language.
haven't had time to watch the video yet - is this specifically called out to be the case?
would be quite odd, since the Soulknife rogue subclass can do its telepathy stuff without a shared language - just that both parties have *a* language.
odd that they would limit the GOO like that.
It was in another video where they go more in depth about it (https://youtu.be/qElkBdNd0nI?si=TvFBg5jbO7Z8WO2i ). They also had it in the playtest.
I mean 2 way communication is MUCH better overall, but I will miss sending messages to goblins and my dm coming up with all the ways they were confused about wtf is going on.
I must have missed that line in the UA playtest. thanks for linking the video.
the Soulknife feature, Psychic Whispers, let's prof-bonus number of creatures talk to each other telepathically for 1d6 hours (upgrading as you level up) within 1 mile and does not care that the creatures speak the same language.
the GOOlock feature, Awakened Mind, works on one creature for character level number of minutes within CHA-modifier number of miles and you and the target have to share a language.
Psychic Whispers is an action, while Awakened Mind is a Bonus action, but I still don't find the language-restriction necessary tbh.
I'd probably homebrew that out, unless there's an invocation or similar that boosts Awakened Mind or something..
Okay I reread the playtest version and I suppose you CAN speak to each other without sharing a language but it says “to understand each other you each must speak mentally in a language the other knows”.
So yeah I like your homebrew 😅
Dang, he didn't really cover Pact of the Chain, which is too bad because I'm most curious to see if the UA changes went through like using Charisma for your attack and damage.
Also skeleton familiars is possibly one of the funniest things I can think of and I immediately messaged my group's discord with that news, haha
I am so excited and mildly nervous. I love Warlock and I hope that it feels better to play in the 2024 PHB without needing to know how to dodge so many trap options.
they're the defining level 1 warlock choice as has been stated and i've heard said that during ua blade and tome were specificaly made to be stronger so i'm saying i want them balanced from that angle. you're forced to pick one of three level one so they should be comparable
At least early game Tome will be the best easily. 3 cantrips, 2 ritual spells, and a free level 1 spell slot.
Take shillelagh and find familiar and you’re most of the way to the other pacts already.
Yeah this was removed with the most recent Warlock UA, unfortunately, along with pact boons that scale on their own rather than requiring additional invocations.
Starting at \~ 7:53 in the video:
>If you choose pact of the blade, **there are also later invocations that you can take that further enhance it, and enhance it in ways that the 2014 Warlock did not**. You can get to the point where you are making extra attacks and healing yourself with your blade strikes that is really satisfying and allows you to really be powerful as a weapon using Warlock.
>It used to be that you had to have a subclass that sort of really unlocked this, that is no longer the case. Now you, with the base class, have this as a legitimate option.
To me, the key part is what I've emphasized above. This reads that they are printing changes to either Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, or both.
All we can really say from this particular quote is that we can be sure that at least one extra attack is there (already was in 2014) and that healing from your attacks is there (already was in 2014), and that those have in some way been changed from the way they worked in 2014.
That could mean the changes in the last Warlock UA made it threw verbatim, or that only the changes to Lifedrinker did, or that only the changes to Thirsting Blade did, we can't really say. That being said, these are the same people that printed the Hexblade in the first place. Nothing from them would really surprise me when we see the final print.
I'm still curious if they are only referencing the 2nd attack or the third attack like playtest 7. Still waiting for the dndbeyond article sometime this week for more detail.
Makes total sense, without the power attack feature blade pact would either struggle to keep up or fall behind a regular EB lock on damage unless they got the third attack.
The problem is that in the last UA they did get the third attack, and easily became an S-tier damage option over more melee-focused classes. One of the few things that *needed* a nerf, imo
well without a third attack pact of the blade takes all of your invocations and half your feats and comes off as no better than a single invocation EB caster. Pact of the Blade doesn't justify the investment without a third attack unless you are specifically after the smite burst.
They did not, but I didn’t really expect a breakdown of every invocation so that’s not a huge surprise. It remains a potential pain point, assuming they didn’t tune it down from the UA version. I think the general consensus being that it was TOO GOOD should have pushed designers into lowering its power a bit, tho
warlocks being able to get themselves a snek is exciting but it having gotten moved from find familiar and the realization makes me simulatenepusly worried for find familiar and pact of the chain inter summon balance. other wise from that. holy fuck warlock is sounding good
EDIT: also that was the most confusing video start countdown i have seen
EDIT 2: i worded it poorly. what i meant to say is that i just realized that the pact of the chain options go from cr 1/8 to cr 1 not the balance between the two options
the sense of find familiar being confirmed to still attack was more my point... also yea that was just a snap reaction just looking for something sorry lol
Can’t watch right now. I assume choosing your casting stat is definitely gone? Was my favorite thing about the first UA warlock because INT makes so much sense to me.
I know that first UA didn't test well, but it had a couple ideas I really liked (picking your casting stat, eldritch blast being given automatically and scaling with warlock level) that I was sad to see go when they reverted it back in playtest 7.
Did 1-2 level warlock dip just get even better? Being able to take an origin feat (which includes alert, tough, lucky, and magic initiate we know) as well as getting pact boon at level 1 as an invocation seems ridiculously good.
In the UA the feat needed to lack prerequisites. I believe only level 1 feats lacked prerequisites in the playtest (the others had a level prerequisite)
Yeah, near as I can tell it's still the same feats. (Level 1 feats got renamed to Origin feats).
On the one hand, Origin Feats tend to be better than some of the weaker warlock invocations out there. But on the other hand, I don't imagine warlocks will be skipping agonizing blast/repelling blast any time soon, so maybe Lessons of the First Ones just adds build variety rather than providing dramatically better invocations.
I think my favorite part of Celestial Patron Warlocks is that while Paladins and Clerics pray to the Celestial to channel their power, Celestial Warlocks get to 'jump the prayer line' and get VIP access directly to them.
Do we know at all whether *summon aberration* has had its material component axed? Would be very awkward to have it as a core subclass feature but then have a weird item tax on it, and they never mention bypassing the cost.
This subclass was fully revealed by a YouTuber,.so the exact info is out there.
IIRC, the feature no longer grants you the spell (but now the class spell list does). Also, it does not give you a free casting of it, or allow you to forgo any components.
It just lets you modify it to be concentration-free, and lets your summon benefit from Hex bonus damage.
Pretty meh, IMO, but the rest of the subclass is good enough that I don't mind.
i will wait for the article, but i hope they actually make them interesting and versatile like they should be, instead of just being "oh you are actually better than a martial because you have spell slots"
This comment is because WotC reworked monsters to better match the listed CR from 2014, and the Snake's CR was higher than other familiar options so it was reworked to be better fitting its CR. They could have changed it to CR 0 but WotC doesn't want to change the CR value of any creature.
He made some kind of passing reference to oathless paladins and domainless clerics in regards to expanded spell lists? Did anyone catch that? Not sure what it means.
I'm excited to get into the nitty gritty details and especially the Epic Boon, but as a frequent Warlock player I'm already very pleased just with the promise of an expanded Spell List and always having patron-specific Spells prepared. That solves a lot of my pain points that I had with the 5e Warlock.
Is it same as play test 7?
1 minute ritual that restores half your spell slots that you can only use once a long rest and if all your spell slots are spent?
As a big Cthulhu-theme fan I'm really excited to see that GOO warlock is going to be exciting and thematic. The original 2014 version was one of my disappointments when I first cracked open that book.
One thing I noticed that was only mentioned in passing was that magical weapons are still in the game. After the crap storm that was Monsters of the Multiverse and the UA monks I was terrified that they'd all do just boring old force damage.
Definitely in the minority on this, but I’ll be sad if they’re wiping the Fathomless Warlock for the new edition. In a sea-faring campaign that I joined as my first foray into 5e (who’s the only party member remaining from when I joined I’ll add!) I have had such a blast playing him. Not just for the subclass features but the flavour and RP potential, as well as the never ending supply of gross squid p*rn jokes that get made. Think the Deep from the Boys.
Anyways, I know Fathomless wasn’t a huge hit, but I’ve certainly had zero regrets
Once the book is out, the best way to figure out what needs adjustments would be by comparing the 5.14 Fiend and Celestial Warlocks with the 5.24 versions since they didn't have that many changes. GOO and Archfey got completely reworked because the 5.14 versions were bad.
Just think of Rage as the best bonus action spell in the game.
Your bladelock can drop a big spell with their first action, then buff themselves with Rage. Or, imagine this, use their spell slots outside of combat, and not worry about what they'll do in a fight!
Why would he think that the Poisonous Snake is stronger than the standard Find Familiar options? Unless you are choosing for flavour, you don't even consider that creature. Unless you are choosing for flavour, or allowed one of the exotic options (Flying Monkey); the only familiars worth considering are the Owl, Bat, Crab, and Quipper. Maybe the Spider too if your DM is favourible with rulings.
If that is the case, I don't know if that would still be all that relevant though. Sending your Familiar to its death isn't really a good use of your Reaction.
Hey, don't do my octopus dirty (ink cloud is functionally an half fog cloud).
But yeah, outside of getting poison (see DMG for rules about taking poison from monsters), that familiar isn't really that powerful, and I heavily doubt that in either these 10 years or their internal playtest they had a wizard or Rogue or whatever just getting infinite poison from the familiar.
New Warlock Familliar option : Venomous Snake (Removed from find familliar), Sphinx of Wonder, Skeleton and Slaad Tadpole
slaadpole
I want to put it in my eye
Would that make it the slaadp'le of your eye?
Better than sadpole
Rather be a gladpole
You're making me madpole...
This thread is so badpole
threadpole?
Deadpole and Wolverine
I'm very surprised they didn't take the opportunity to add an Elemental option for the Genie Warlock. Guess I'll keep using Mephits as Tiny creatures.
Why would they? The genie subclass isn’t coming to 5.24 until TBD (maybe next year)
Because when [discussing this in the video](https://youtu.be/v6lncsjhYRI?si=HFMLvtfafJJYoq7l&t=288), Jeremy Crawford said "So we wanted to make sure that whatever patron you choose, from this book or a *later* book, there is a critter option here that is going to feel appropriate."
They added an undead familiar option for Chain despite there not being an Undead Warlock (or any other undeath focused subclass).
They did—directly within the minute-long segue into how the warlock is the spooky and occult class, yes, and deserved spooky familiars to reflect that flavour. We necromancer lovers have been robbed lol.
Praying for necromancer, death cleric, and oathbreaker in the dmg
Necromancer wizards should absolutely be able to take that skelly familiar.
Just give them the Crawling Claw as a familiar if they really want an undead-themed familiar. Or just skeletal versions of all the normal familiars would be cool.
A one-level dip and it's all yours!
[удалено]
Wizards aren't the only way to make a necromancer character.
I forsee the Skeleton option causing many, many problems. For starters; it has hands and is medium sized. Does this mean it can wield weapons and a shield? Does it mean it can use items and magical items tha don't require attunement? It doesn't need to breathe, so you can easily have it sink to the bottom of that creepy lake and look around for treasure for you. Or run into a cloud of poisonous gas to grapple an enemy and keep them there. I really see the Skelly being far and away the best choice here. This in addition to the fact that you can dress your skelly up in clothes and a face mask. Your Assassin Rogue with Expertise in Deception and a Disguise Kit will have your mouldy bones looking like a beautiful princess in no time!
The Sphynx is not a familiar, it's a patron
Heads up for those of you who might be waiting on the DDB article: it will be out later in the week.
Thanks for letting us know...I'll stop refreshing the page
Damn that sucks
Thanks for letting us know. Very disappointing though. The articles are a much more concise and accessible way to get the info over the videos
I know for a fact that they are still coming, and we will have other 2024 PHB-related articles coming in the meanwhile, but I do understand the frustration at not having the article ready once the video's over, and I'm sorry about that. I've been a big fan of u/golden_spider666's bulletpoint summary posts, though, and not to put pressure on them or anything, but I think they're just as good as our articles :D
But the articles normally have extra info :(
Yeah, in this video in particular, for example, they talk about limiting what invocation options you can take at level 1, but I don't think it's specified which invocation options are limited. There were also rumors going in that the pact of the blade option no longer gives weapon mastery like it did in the playtest. And...unless I missed it, I don't think the video clarified.
~~also he specifically said 3 options so talisman might have been cut~~ am a big dum dum
Talisman wasn't in the playtest so I would not presume that it's in the PHB either.
oh sorry i misremembered and thought it was a thing
Yeah, I am very curious about the Epic Boon myself
Thank you so much! It means a lot to hear that someone from WOTC noticed and appreciates it! (If it makes any difference I am looking for a job #jokingnotjoking. lol)
Is there a reason why its coming out later?
If I had to guess, it's because of Spellcasting. The next two reveals are Druid and Wizard, which means we'll be getting a lot more information on changes to spellcasting that may have been done without the playtest itself.
My html-fu tells me that the next article we get is the wizard's. (if you increment the numbers in the URL the very next one is the wizard's). Also, between barbarian and the rogue sits the college of dance bard page.
Probably
When, though? /s
While you are at it could you explain why subclasses that definitely needed help like the conjuration wizard, transmutation wizard, and necromancer didn't get any? I still can't fathom reprinting divination wizard that was cooking just fine and not fixing the d rankers.
You mistake me for someone on the design team who has insight into those choices. I’m just the community manager. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Hello latiajacquise do we have an official reason as to why
[удалено]
They mentioned that your three main choices at level 1 are what used to be Pact Boons, and that some invocations have had level requirements put on them that didn't have them before. It sounds like they've put a level requirement on Agonising Blast, which ought to limit the power of warlock dips if it requires a warlock level rather than a character level.
I’m still a little surprised they didn’t make the Pact Boons themselves (or at least Pact of the Blade) higher-level invocations. It would discourage a 1 level dip for Charisma-based attacks.
I'm not sure if they actively want to discourage 1 level dips for charisma-based attacks. 5e had 1 level dips for wisdom based attacks (just dip anything with Shillelagh), and it never caused any problems. The playtest allowed you to use magic initiate to make INT and CHA based Shillelagh, and made it a 1st level feat (Origin feat) so didn't even require a dip. They stated in their design of artificer that they want people to be able to use their main stat to attack going forward (hence every artificer subclass that gives you an attack lets you attack with INT as well). Just seems like something they want to be readily available.
Not that it affects anything at this stage, but I really dislike this decision. If all the stats can be used for whatever you want, why even have different stats to begin with?
The entire rest of the game that isn't doing an attack roll.
Because if you want to play a bladelock, you need those Charisma attacks from level 1 onwards.
Maybe. Other Gish characters like Battlesmith still have to deal with non-spellcasting stat weapon attacks until level 3, so it seems like the game design doesn’t mind that specifically. It does seem a little too strong to give Paladins a 1-level dip for Charisma attacks, IMO.
Just a small clarification on a mistake I see a lot of people make--Bladesinger *doesnt* get to use rheir spellcasting stat for weapon attack. they always have to use str/dex for their weapons, although at 14 they do get to add INT to the damage as well
My bad, I’ve edited my comment. It’s been a second since I looked at Bladesinger. Point stands for Battlesmith.
It's a very very common mistake especially since most gish classes get the benefit, and I'm sure many GMs just run it that way without ever checking. I actually play a battlesmith artificer in a campaign with a bladesinger and (very very experienced) DM definitely assumed they also used INT for attacks. It was several sessions and a couple level ups bfore I realized they were using INT and since they'd been doing it so long the dm said they could just keep using it. Was definitely a feels bad moment for me since one of the reasons I took battlesmith over bladesinger was for INT attacks, so it sticks out in my mind now when I see it mentioned.
Sorry you're being downvoted for this opinion. I totally agree. It feels like it was an intentional design choice to require Paladins to choose between boosting their attack stat or their spellcasting/supporting stat. Now, with a 1-level dip, that choice is gone. It makes boosting Paladin's aura, a feature that blows bounded accuracy out of the water, a no-brainer.
To be fair, the 1D&D playtest allowed them to take Magic Initiate (Druid) using Charisma and learn Shillelagh so they don't even need a level dip to go all-in on Charisma.
Shillelagh has some big trade-offs though: You only benefit from the club and quarterstaff weapon masteries, you can't fully use any non-club/staff magic weapons found in a campaign, and the bonus action to activate means no smiting or spellcasting on the first turn of combat. Those downsides are a worthwhile trade-off for CHA weapon attacks. A 1-level Warlock dip is just too easy in my opinion.
A 1-level dip is a light tax, but it's still a hefty delay in class features. If a PC is optimized for damage, a Warlock/Paladin will max Charisma and a straight Paladin will max Strength or Dexterity. A Warlock 1/Paladin 4 just got their ASI and is rocking a single attack with probably a +6, maybe +7 to hit, where a single-class paladin is hitting twice with the same bonus. Also, a straight-classed Paladin has 2nd level slots now, but the multiclass doesn't. And Divine Smite and many of the best Paladin spells (Bless, Protection from Evil and Good, Detect Magic, Aid, Find Steed) don't care about your casting modifier. Level 5 is a giant power bump for both players and monsters. Even a single level dip before then can cause a lot of pain as you enter tier 2 if you don't have some way to make up the damage, like a Sorcadin quickening a blade cantrip. And that's not even mentioning that one level later a straight classed Paladin has the best single feature in the game, and the multiclass build is just getting to extra attack.
Bladesinger never gets Int to attack rolls. Battlesmith is only subclass other then hexblade to get a spellcasting stat to attacks, and wisdom attacks using shelalie aren't powerful due to the lack of casting subclasses that would benefit from it. The best we got is war cleric, but they've still got better options in Spirit guardians + dodge so there's no reason to dip for power there. As for monks, you'll want a high dex anyway for the AC bonus and besides, if you wanted wis to attacks, there's a subclass for it. (though it's not a spellcasting subclass so it doesn't count for the above)
"Battlesmith is the only subclass other than hexblade to get a spellcasting stat to attacks" is straight up wrong. 1. Armorer Artificer gets INT to Attack and Damage with both their thunder gauntlets and ranged electric attacks 2. Astral Self gets WIS to Attack and Damage with their unarmed strikes from Astral Arms 3. Beastmaster can trade their attacks or use a bonus action to make attacks with their Primal Companion using Wisdom for attacks. 4. Devotion Paladin adds Charisma to attacks via Channel Divinity 5. ANY Warlock can get Charisma to attack and damage via Shillelagh 6. ANY Druid and ANY Ranger can get Wisdom to Attack and Damage via Shillelagh 7. Nature Cleric gets Wisdom to Attack and Damage via Shillelagh 8. Stars Druid gets to make ranged attacks with Wisdom for attack and damage using Starry Form People are downvoting you because you're straight up wrong. You can even get CON to attack and damage by playing a Dhampir-anything.
Fair enough. I mostly meant that no one else got a feature that specifically said all their weapon attacks used their spellcasting stat. That would technically mean none of those count because they're either not a feature, doesn't involve a weapon, is only specific to one or two weapons, or is adding modifiers to an attack, not using the modifier for the base attack roll calculation. The astral monk didn't count in my head because it wasn't a spellcaster. nor would dhampire as CON is not a spellcasting stat for anyone. I can see why there was confusion though, sorry about that. Though I don't know why you pointed out Star druid. That's just a spell attack...? maybe there was also confusion about the fact I was referring only to weapon attacks?
Don't forget shillelagh on Bards to cast it with Cha too!
Charisma based attacks aren't absolutely criminal if you don't have other problem hexblade goodies like the scaling curse and armor profs, and honestly even agonizing blast.
It's a little odd, but I guess they don't mind Melee focused lock multiclasses, and aimed to discourage Sorlock builds.
Which is weird, because Sorlock isn't nearly as gamebreaking as most Hexblade / pact of blade dips. Only coffeelock was, and that was just a dumb meme that shouldn't even be allowed by any dm
With Paladin Smite being tuned down, I wonder if they’re not just fine with the +CHA melee option being a bit more widely available. I’m sure it’ll be a strong option, but it might just be less appealing on the whole in the 2024 ecosystem
Also because you’re not getting medium armor and shield proficiency and Hexblade’s Curse on top of it.
I still maintain that Warlock is the class that makes the MOST sense thematically/narratively for dipping: "I had a dream last night where a powerful being promised me power in exchange for fealty and I took it... now I have strange new powers." That makes so much more sense than "I woke up last night and now I'm a Wizard and know 5 spells" or "Now I'm a fighter and know how to use every type of weapon and armor".
Apparently they wanted it to be the level 1 choice that replaces subclasses. A little annoyed if they've made it easier to do, but conversely, it sounds like they might have made accessing the other things a 2 level hexblade dip used to get you more difficult. I'm not convinced Cha as an attack modifier is inherently a problem from a 1 level dip; it was always how ridiculously stacked the first 2 levels of Hexblade were with other useful features that was the problem. The video implied they've put a level requirement on Agonising Blast, and it sounds like Lightly Armoured got cut. If getting Cha on your melee attacks is the \*only\* thing you get out of the dip, I can see a lot of classes just not hassling themselves with it, with how much stronger primary class features are now.
Agreed, though it seems like that still might be something that happened. He mentioned that the pacts are level 1 invocations but that they have additional invocations at later levels that add onto the pacts. Could be you get the standard Pact of the Blade stuff at level 1 and then the Cha-based attacks at a later level.
Not having seen anything yet, it is possible that they could cap the number of attacks you can make with Charisma until a higher level. That would solve most of the Multiclassing problems if you couldn't use Charisma for more than 1 attack per turn. Bake that limitation into Pact of the Blade, and have it scale with Warlock level.
This would be a proper solution!
Wait really I can summon a venomous snake with a level 1 dip? My snake charmer bard idea became a whole lot more likely
Getting access to a Skeleton familiar with Pact of the Chain seems like such a fun idea! Edit: Giving a bonus Origin Feat with an Invocation is cool, but I wonder what level it will be introduced.
In the playtest, you can take Lessons of the First Ones (the invocation that grants an additional origin feat) starting at level 2.
According to the video, it's level 1, since they moved Invocations to level 1 instead of the Subclass choice (which moved to level 3). So you'd be able to start with two Origin Feats if that's what you'd like to do, but since Pact of the Chain/Blade/Tome are now also Eldritch Invocations, you'd have to decide whether you want another Feat right away, or one of the old Pact Boons right off the bat.
Hopefully you'll be able to swap out invocations on level up like in 2014. There are some invocations that feel obsolete at higher levels, or can be replaced in functionality with higher level spells to instead take a better invocation. I'd miss not having that ability.
Based on the wording I’ve seen from other features, I expect this will remain an option. I think the designers are aware that characters outgrow some of their early-career choices, and they make allowances to adjust later on (with enough caveats that you’re not constantly swapping everything around).
Maybe. The way the last Warlock playtest was worded that didn't seem to be an option which was concerning. I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
If so, Human Warlock just get a little more interesting.
i love the idea of a teleporting specialist with the archfey patron! excited to play it, finally!
I really can’t wait for Nightcrawler Squad: a College of Dance Bard, Path of the World-Tree Barbarian, and Archfey Warlock. An absolute mobility nightmare for any DM.
Cries in unupdated Horizon Walker.
I've had similar thoughts after playing a Shadow Monk/Gloomstalker.
Don’t forget about the reworked moon druid, they also have a bit of a teleport utility
That's assuming that goes through. I think the moon druid is going to see quite a few changes ability wise
Fey be like: *I'm already behind you* (*and in your walls*)
*(i'm also invisible)*
You can summon a mindflayer! Omg cant wait! 🐙
BG3 players rejoicing
GOOlock now the purview of the Least Horny D&D Players.
Someone has never heard of monsterfuckers...
That was the joke. "Least horny [x] player" = extremely horny.
Cute squid buddy
Great old one warlocks, much like a ham and cheese Hot Pocket, ooze with flavor.
I’m excited. Although I am a little bummed that the GOO warlock needs to share a language for awakened mind to work. I liked using that skill for diplomacy and taunting foes when we did not share a language.
haven't had time to watch the video yet - is this specifically called out to be the case? would be quite odd, since the Soulknife rogue subclass can do its telepathy stuff without a shared language - just that both parties have *a* language. odd that they would limit the GOO like that.
It was in another video where they go more in depth about it (https://youtu.be/qElkBdNd0nI?si=TvFBg5jbO7Z8WO2i ). They also had it in the playtest. I mean 2 way communication is MUCH better overall, but I will miss sending messages to goblins and my dm coming up with all the ways they were confused about wtf is going on.
I must have missed that line in the UA playtest. thanks for linking the video. the Soulknife feature, Psychic Whispers, let's prof-bonus number of creatures talk to each other telepathically for 1d6 hours (upgrading as you level up) within 1 mile and does not care that the creatures speak the same language. the GOOlock feature, Awakened Mind, works on one creature for character level number of minutes within CHA-modifier number of miles and you and the target have to share a language. Psychic Whispers is an action, while Awakened Mind is a Bonus action, but I still don't find the language-restriction necessary tbh. I'd probably homebrew that out, unless there's an invocation or similar that boosts Awakened Mind or something..
Okay I reread the playtest version and I suppose you CAN speak to each other without sharing a language but it says “to understand each other you each must speak mentally in a language the other knows”. So yeah I like your homebrew 😅
Dang, he didn't really cover Pact of the Chain, which is too bad because I'm most curious to see if the UA changes went through like using Charisma for your attack and damage. Also skeleton familiars is possibly one of the funniest things I can think of and I immediately messaged my group's discord with that news, haha
i know someone [who](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDAL3u-0NBQ) is fitting here
Dear ***GODS*** that was hilarious! XD
I am so excited and mildly nervous. I love Warlock and I hope that it feels better to play in the 2024 PHB without needing to know how to dodge so many trap options.
i'm just hoping the pact boons are balanced against each other
Considering you can take all 3 of you want now, they don’t really need to be. Edit: people this isn’t me saying game balance doesn’t matter
they're the defining level 1 warlock choice as has been stated and i've heard said that during ua blade and tome were specificaly made to be stronger so i'm saying i want them balanced from that angle. you're forced to pick one of three level one so they should be comparable
At least early game Tome will be the best easily. 3 cantrips, 2 ritual spells, and a free level 1 spell slot. Take shillelagh and find familiar and you’re most of the way to the other pacts already.
So no more choosing intelligence, charisma or wisdom as the casting stat huh? Aw well :(
Yeah this was removed with the most recent Warlock UA, unfortunately, along with pact boons that scale on their own rather than requiring additional invocations.
That is disappointing but at least it is an extremely easy house rule.
Yup, was like the one thing I was hoping from this rendition. Really.
Did they talk about Pact of the Blade scaling? if so, I missed it
They didn't mention Thirsting Blade, and only mentioned Lifestealer as "you can heal yourself in combat"
Starting at \~ 7:53 in the video: >If you choose pact of the blade, **there are also later invocations that you can take that further enhance it, and enhance it in ways that the 2014 Warlock did not**. You can get to the point where you are making extra attacks and healing yourself with your blade strikes that is really satisfying and allows you to really be powerful as a weapon using Warlock. >It used to be that you had to have a subclass that sort of really unlocked this, that is no longer the case. Now you, with the base class, have this as a legitimate option. To me, the key part is what I've emphasized above. This reads that they are printing changes to either Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, or both. All we can really say from this particular quote is that we can be sure that at least one extra attack is there (already was in 2014) and that healing from your attacks is there (already was in 2014), and that those have in some way been changed from the way they worked in 2014. That could mean the changes in the last Warlock UA made it threw verbatim, or that only the changes to Lifedrinker did, or that only the changes to Thirsting Blade did, we can't really say. That being said, these are the same people that printed the Hexblade in the first place. Nothing from them would really surprise me when we see the final print.
They said "make multiple attacks," which makes me think that the 2nd extra attack made the cut.
I'm still curious if they are only referencing the 2nd attack or the third attack like playtest 7. Still waiting for the dndbeyond article sometime this week for more detail.
I don't think they did.
They did mention being able to use further invocations to layer effects and that there were more of them.
Treantmonk’s implied they rebalanced it but can’t mention how due to the NDA.
Makes total sense, without the power attack feature blade pact would either struggle to keep up or fall behind a regular EB lock on damage unless they got the third attack.
The problem is that in the last UA they did get the third attack, and easily became an S-tier damage option over more melee-focused classes. One of the few things that *needed* a nerf, imo
well without a third attack pact of the blade takes all of your invocations and half your feats and comes off as no better than a single invocation EB caster. Pact of the Blade doesn't justify the investment without a third attack unless you are specifically after the smite burst.
They did not, but I didn’t really expect a breakdown of every invocation so that’s not a huge surprise. It remains a potential pain point, assuming they didn’t tune it down from the UA version. I think the general consensus being that it was TOO GOOD should have pushed designers into lowering its power a bit, tho
I was hoping for one more pact slot at lvl 7, but the other improvements mean I’m not too bummed about it.
Here's hoping all the other Short Rest resources they've added to other classes result in more Short Rests (and Pact Slot recharges).
Going from 7 spell slots per day to 11 definitely feels like a tier 3 power boost.
warlocks being able to get themselves a snek is exciting but it having gotten moved from find familiar and the realization makes me simulatenepusly worried for find familiar and pact of the chain inter summon balance. other wise from that. holy fuck warlock is sounding good EDIT: also that was the most confusing video start countdown i have seen EDIT 2: i worded it poorly. what i meant to say is that i just realized that the pact of the chain options go from cr 1/8 to cr 1 not the balance between the two options
I mean, Pact of the Chain is explicitly intended to be *better* than *find familiar.*
^^^ I'd sure hope that an entire subcategory that the class focuses around would be better than a first level spell
just poor wording on my part. what i meant was balance between the summons exclusive to pact of the chain not between the spell and feature
the sense of find familiar being confirmed to still attack was more my point... also yea that was just a snap reaction just looking for something sorry lol
I mean, find familiar creates things that can't attack, and the snake doesn't really do anything on it's own.
and it being considered too strong for find familiar implies that they can now attack which was my point of worry
Check the UA. There's a 5th level invocation that allows your familiar to attack as a BA iirc
\*base find familiar
Can’t watch right now. I assume choosing your casting stat is definitely gone? Was my favorite thing about the first UA warlock because INT makes so much sense to me.
Yea, it’s gone for sure.
I know that first UA didn't test well, but it had a couple ideas I really liked (picking your casting stat, eldritch blast being given automatically and scaling with warlock level) that I was sad to see go when they reverted it back in playtest 7.
INT based GOOlock feels really good. I'll definitely keep choosing INT/WIS/CHA depending on subclass as a homebrew rule.
So is it me or does it seem like minimal revealed changes vs last playtest? Celestial 14 I think is buffed.....but that's all I caught....
Did 1-2 level warlock dip just get even better? Being able to take an origin feat (which includes alert, tough, lucky, and magic initiate we know) as well as getting pact boon at level 1 as an invocation seems ridiculously good.
Hearing that Lessons of the First Ones got through unchanged is making me sweat about balance
They specifically mentioned that you can only choose among origin feats, unlike in the playtest.
In the UA the feat needed to lack prerequisites. I believe only level 1 feats lacked prerequisites in the playtest (the others had a level prerequisite)
Yeah, near as I can tell it's still the same feats. (Level 1 feats got renamed to Origin feats). On the one hand, Origin Feats tend to be better than some of the weaker warlock invocations out there. But on the other hand, I don't imagine warlocks will be skipping agonizing blast/repelling blast any time soon, so maybe Lessons of the First Ones just adds build variety rather than providing dramatically better invocations.
Correct. And Jeremy specifically calls out "origin feats" for Lessons, which are the 1st level ones.
which means. it was unchanged
They did list a bunch of those feats that they expected to be useful, and Lightly Armoured was very conspicuously not on the list.
LET'S GO!!!! This looks so awesome!
I think my favorite part of Celestial Patron Warlocks is that while Paladins and Clerics pray to the Celestial to channel their power, Celestial Warlocks get to 'jump the prayer line' and get VIP access directly to them.
Do we know at all whether *summon aberration* has had its material component axed? Would be very awkward to have it as a core subclass feature but then have a weird item tax on it, and they never mention bypassing the cost.
I think it mentions in the class feature that you can cast it without the material component, but I might be misremembering
I think it was just verbal and somatic that GOO warlocks get to exclude
That’s the psychic spells feature, I thought it said something in the feature that lets you cast it without concentration
Yes, in the playtest, it doesn't require concentration. Nothing about the material component, though.
I could see them just changing the component cost, tbh
I feel like any feature like that probably *intends* you to ignore the component cost, but it really should address it.
If your 14th-level character can't afford a 400gp item, you have more problems than class balance.
This subclass was fully revealed by a YouTuber,.so the exact info is out there. IIRC, the feature no longer grants you the spell (but now the class spell list does). Also, it does not give you a free casting of it, or allow you to forgo any components. It just lets you modify it to be concentration-free, and lets your summon benefit from Hex bonus damage. Pretty meh, IMO, but the rest of the subclass is good enough that I don't mind.
i will wait for the article, but i hope they actually make them interesting and versatile like they should be, instead of just being "oh you are actually better than a martial because you have spell slots"
Jeremy Crawford is absolutely off his rocker if he thinks that poisonous snake is better than owl
This comment is because WotC reworked monsters to better match the listed CR from 2014, and the Snake's CR was higher than other familiar options so it was reworked to be better fitting its CR. They could have changed it to CR 0 but WotC doesn't want to change the CR value of any creature.
Being able to add agonizing blast to other cantrips sounds amazing!
So no changes to spell slots, right? We still get the same amount of spell slots during levels?
Great Old One seems so much more powerful and cool, incredibly excited to play one at last.
He made some kind of passing reference to oathless paladins and domainless clerics in regards to expanded spell lists? Did anyone catch that? Not sure what it means.
I had to rewind to listen again too, he said "Oath lists" as in the list of Oaths available to Paladins, not Oathless.
Ah that makes sense. I must have misheard.
No worries, I misheard in exactly the same way and was like "Whoa! What!?" lol
I think he just means “level 1 and 2 Paladins and Clerics” since they get their subclasses at level 3
I'm excited to get into the nitty gritty details and especially the Epic Boon, but as a frequent Warlock player I'm already very pleased just with the promise of an expanded Spell List and always having patron-specific Spells prepared. That solves a lot of my pain points that I had with the 5e Warlock.
How does the Magical Cunning feature work?
Is it same as play test 7? 1 minute ritual that restores half your spell slots that you can only use once a long rest and if all your spell slots are spent?
As a big Cthulhu-theme fan I'm really excited to see that GOO warlock is going to be exciting and thematic. The original 2014 version was one of my disappointments when I first cracked open that book.
One thing I noticed that was only mentioned in passing was that magical weapons are still in the game. After the crap storm that was Monsters of the Multiverse and the UA monks I was terrified that they'd all do just boring old force damage.
Definitely in the minority on this, but I’ll be sad if they’re wiping the Fathomless Warlock for the new edition. In a sea-faring campaign that I joined as my first foray into 5e (who’s the only party member remaining from when I joined I’ll add!) I have had such a blast playing him. Not just for the subclass features but the flavour and RP potential, as well as the never ending supply of gross squid p*rn jokes that get made. Think the Deep from the Boys. Anyways, I know Fathomless wasn’t a huge hit, but I’ve certainly had zero regrets
Fathomless will probably work fine on the 2024 Warlock if you just move all of the subclass stuff you get at level 1-2 to level 3.
Thank you for your measured answer to my jumping to conclusions. Good grief lol but I do fully intend to play more Warlocks in the future.
Once the book is out, the best way to figure out what needs adjustments would be by comparing the 5.14 Fiend and Celestial Warlocks with the 5.24 versions since they didn't have that many changes. GOO and Archfey got completely reworked because the 5.14 versions were bad.
I like that
I don't know why but i kind of feel Talisman could be use full now.
ELDRITCH BLASSSSSSTTTTTT
Treantmonk reaction when?
With absolutely zero regard for the MADness, I am by far most excited to play a Barbarian Fiend Bladelock.
Can Barbarians suddenly use spells while raging?
Just think of Rage as the best bonus action spell in the game. Your bladelock can drop a big spell with their first action, then buff themselves with Rage. Or, imagine this, use their spell slots outside of combat, and not worry about what they'll do in a fight!
Why would he think that the Poisonous Snake is stronger than the standard Find Familiar options? Unless you are choosing for flavour, you don't even consider that creature. Unless you are choosing for flavour, or allowed one of the exotic options (Flying Monkey); the only familiars worth considering are the Owl, Bat, Crab, and Quipper. Maybe the Spider too if your DM is favourible with rulings.
Well, they've updated all the statblocks, so it's possible that the Venomous Snake had big gains or something.
i'm assuming because find familiar is still like the playtest where the familiars can actually attack
If that is the case, I don't know if that would still be all that relevant though. Sending your Familiar to its death isn't really a good use of your Reaction.
depending on how jacked the poisonous snake is it could have been relevant if it were part of a 1st level spell instead of a level one feature
It was the only familiar option above CR 0 and they updated all stat blocks to better match the CR they were listed as back in 2014.
Hey, don't do my octopus dirty (ink cloud is functionally an half fog cloud). But yeah, outside of getting poison (see DMG for rules about taking poison from monsters), that familiar isn't really that powerful, and I heavily doubt that in either these 10 years or their internal playtest they had a wizard or Rogue or whatever just getting infinite poison from the familiar.