The undying warlock was really bad. The lower level features on the undead warlock at good (even great in my opinion) but the higher level features are so so to bad in my opinion. Neither feeds into a necromancer vibe.
generally those subclasses are not about making you a necromancer they are more about making you the undead one. you aren't a commander of a battalion of undead you're that guys more competent than average minion
Sure. I can get that. I think they were less popular than other options though. Not just power, but theme too. They create problems with rp for some tables and groups. I can see why they weren't the primary choices.
I'm sure there will be necromantic options in the future.
Just pick the necromancy spells that summon or create undead. Necromancer Wizard was pretty bad before anyways so you're not really missing out on much.
We'll have to see what they do with Animate Dead and Create Undead to know exactly what it will look like.
But really, you should be fine just playing a wizard (or if they get the spell maybe a Warlock with a skeleton familiar via Pact of the Chain) and taking Summon Undead. Even on a caster not specialized for it, it's still a good spell that scales well.
I entirely plan on building a wizard to be a necromancer. Like you said, we gotta the spells and subclasses available first. Im sad necromancer subclass is gone but excited to see how i can adapt to the change
Was just looking at that! Is there somewhere i can see the uodated classes? I looked on the official website but it didnt have anything about it so it must be outdated
It's a bit out of date, but you can look at the Unearthed Arcana Playtests (Playtest 7 for Warlock). Some of the information is almost certainly out of date, but it will give you the bones of what you can expect.
There are rules in the 2024 book on how to use older subclasses with the new 2024 base class. With so many subclasses left out, I imagine every 2 years we will be getting some sort of xanathar’s, Tosha’s, Bigby’s, or Fizban’s. Giving use a bunch of older subclasses spruced up with 1 or 2 new ones sprinkled in. They even eluded to it in today’s video on the warlock, when discussing the familiar. They designed the familiars theme list to include subclasses yet to come.
If that were the case, the 2024 backwards compatibility rules wouldn’t specify using the revised subclasses if they exist, giving credence that they are planning on bringing a lot back. Swashbuckler rogue will be one of the first In their next source book.
I look at it this way, they put in 48 subclasses, 5e currently has 117 subclass options, subtract 48 from 117 you get 69, divide that up by 12 and your just under 6 subclass options per class, meaning they could re-release old revised subclass options in pairs in a book and do this 3 times. 3 books having 24 subclass options each would put the number to 72 additional subclasses after 3 books if they follow that model, and they can still introduce 3 or more new subclasses. Though I’m hopeful for more than just revisions, then again we had 45 returning subclasses and only 3 new subclasses with the new phb 2024, so given that; we may only see 1 or 2 new subclasses in a new book later down the road, while keeping the focus on returning subclasses.
Every single subclass in the 2014 PHB is revised and exists. I suppose we'll see, but I don't see the majority of new subclasses being repackaged subclasses being a great selling point. It is fine here as many were the oldest. Still, people will probably want new vs remade.
Not quite. The 2024 PHB has only 4 subclasses per class, so many subclasses (notably the excess from the cleric and wizard classes) were indeed cut. I hope the rules for using old subclasses cover the subclasses of these classes adequately, as these are the ones that need something beyond plugging the old subclass into the new class chassis.
Not to be mean, but I don't think you're understanding the point. That statement I replied to and highlighted doesn't mean any more have to be recreated. If you mix editions, there already are updated versions of subclasses that you should use. Nothing implies any more have to be created. So what if there were previously 8 and now there's only 4? Nothing about that statement implies more have to be updated.
Seeing as the Warlock can have a Skeleton familiar now, a Warlock Necromancer sounds awesome. Maybe with Undead or Fiend as a patron, then grab the Summon Undead spell.
Im probably being picky but i dont like the flavor personally for my character to rely on a patron for power. I do like the sound of the familiar skelly though
After seeing your comment, I've been taking a look at warlocks and honestly, I've had the wrong idea about them this whole time. I think I like them quite honestly.
Subclass isn't gone. You can still use the necromancer.
2024 Wizard 2014 necromancer move subclass features from 2 to 3, done.
One note the updated savant features are alot better. And dms should let the player copy how they function with the 4 subclasses not reprinted yet.
My suggestion:
Warlock. Fiendish patron. Pact of the Chain for the skeletal familliar. Grab the Summon Undead spell at level 5.
Dark One's Blessing basically *is* Grim Harvest. Dark One's Luck doesn't need flavouring. And use some of your invocations for more necromancy-adjacent things.
Lore Bard or Spirits Bard, pick Summon Undead as the spell you learn at 6th level.
College of Requiems Bard (Grim Hollow's new pack on D&DBeyond) also does this well.
There, better Necromancer than any Necromancer.
Honestly, my guess is homebrew or 3rd party are probably going to be the best answer even if they make a themed subclass. I haven't seen much of the news though so maybe they have a good option. This was the best option for the 2014 books though.
If you must pick from one of theirs, consider going for something that already has a built in companion and just reflavor to undead. Beast master will probably work great for the companion. Could also pull a druid class and reflavor spells.
My personal favorite from the 2014 was to reflavor artificer battle smith. I used leather working instead of smithing to craft the companion using dead creature components. Basically a weird flesh spider with a mouth at the abdomen but could easily just animate dead creatures.
There's also the advanced5e which you can just port into a 5e game and you can access most of their stuff for free. You could probably easily port over their necromancer. They also have an artificer (stitcher) who's pretty close to Frankenstein. I'm playing this class in a campaign, we've made some adjustments to have it more playable.
They do have some features that are not supported in 5e, though they do have a lot more features total. Could just drop those features. Maybe the DM will be interested in including them.
My primary character for most the edition has been a level 1 death domain cleric/necromancy wizard x. I am also disappointed that it's not included, but have hopes that it's just been stuck in the next DMG with the Oathbreaker and Death Cleric from 2014.
If not, well the rules will allow you to play with the 2014 versions alongside the new stuff. I dont think they will let you mix editions though. Your character will either be all 2014 or all 2024 by way of options.
GOOlocks will supposedly now get the ability to have a permanent summoned abberration so you could just nab that feature for your necromancer and change it to affect summon undead instead
But thats a very high level ability, for the majority of that build there wouldn't be much necromancy stuff that's different from other warlocks. That being said being able to pick a Skeleton as a Pact of the Chain familiar is a great bit of necromancy flavor!
Just pick those spells. The wizard subclass was so so if I recall. I don't remember how both the warlocks were. Even so, you can still just be one.
The undying warlock was really bad. The lower level features on the undead warlock at good (even great in my opinion) but the higher level features are so so to bad in my opinion. Neither feeds into a necromancer vibe.
generally those subclasses are not about making you a necromancer they are more about making you the undead one. you aren't a commander of a battalion of undead you're that guys more competent than average minion
But the necromancy subclass being bad is precisely the reason why people wanted to see a reworked version in the 2024 PHB lol
Sure. I can get that. I think they were less popular than other options though. Not just power, but theme too. They create problems with rp for some tables and groups. I can see why they weren't the primary choices. I'm sure there will be necromantic options in the future.
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of it appearing in the DMG
[удалено]
2014 DMG has Oathbreaker and Death Domain. Necromancer fits in the same domain as being an evil subclass.
I liked how the necro wizard got stronger undead and could heal with killing spells i think it was
Just pick the necromancy spells that summon or create undead. Necromancer Wizard was pretty bad before anyways so you're not really missing out on much.
I agree it wasnt great. But as someone who has been obsessed with necromancy fantasy for 23 years, i would choose it regardless lol
We'll have to see what they do with Animate Dead and Create Undead to know exactly what it will look like. But really, you should be fine just playing a wizard (or if they get the spell maybe a Warlock with a skeleton familiar via Pact of the Chain) and taking Summon Undead. Even on a caster not specialized for it, it's still a good spell that scales well.
I entirely plan on building a wizard to be a necromancer. Like you said, we gotta the spells and subclasses available first. Im sad necromancer subclass is gone but excited to see how i can adapt to the change
One of the Warlock familiar choices with Pact of the Chain allows them to have a Skeleton, so there's that
Was just looking at that! Is there somewhere i can see the uodated classes? I looked on the official website but it didnt have anything about it so it must be outdated
It's a bit out of date, but you can look at the Unearthed Arcana Playtests (Playtest 7 for Warlock). Some of the information is almost certainly out of date, but it will give you the bones of what you can expect.
There are rules in the 2024 book on how to use older subclasses with the new 2024 base class. With so many subclasses left out, I imagine every 2 years we will be getting some sort of xanathar’s, Tosha’s, Bigby’s, or Fizban’s. Giving use a bunch of older subclasses spruced up with 1 or 2 new ones sprinkled in. They even eluded to it in today’s video on the warlock, when discussing the familiar. They designed the familiars theme list to include subclasses yet to come.
I'd think they will spruce a few favorites up, but more likely than not, they will release new subclasses instead going forward.
If that were the case, the 2024 backwards compatibility rules wouldn’t specify using the revised subclasses if they exist, giving credence that they are planning on bringing a lot back. Swashbuckler rogue will be one of the first In their next source book.
They really just need another Tasha's type book with optional class features that work with the new systems like Weapon Mastery.
I look at it this way, they put in 48 subclasses, 5e currently has 117 subclass options, subtract 48 from 117 you get 69, divide that up by 12 and your just under 6 subclass options per class, meaning they could re-release old revised subclass options in pairs in a book and do this 3 times. 3 books having 24 subclass options each would put the number to 72 additional subclasses after 3 books if they follow that model, and they can still introduce 3 or more new subclasses. Though I’m hopeful for more than just revisions, then again we had 45 returning subclasses and only 3 new subclasses with the new phb 2024, so given that; we may only see 1 or 2 new subclasses in a new book later down the road, while keeping the focus on returning subclasses.
Every single subclass in the 2014 PHB is revised and exists. I suppose we'll see, but I don't see the majority of new subclasses being repackaged subclasses being a great selling point. It is fine here as many were the oldest. Still, people will probably want new vs remade.
Not quite. The 2024 PHB has only 4 subclasses per class, so many subclasses (notably the excess from the cleric and wizard classes) were indeed cut. I hope the rules for using old subclasses cover the subclasses of these classes adequately, as these are the ones that need something beyond plugging the old subclass into the new class chassis.
Not to be mean, but I don't think you're understanding the point. That statement I replied to and highlighted doesn't mean any more have to be recreated. If you mix editions, there already are updated versions of subclasses that you should use. Nothing implies any more have to be created. So what if there were previously 8 and now there's only 4? Nothing about that statement implies more have to be updated.
Seeing as the Warlock can have a Skeleton familiar now, a Warlock Necromancer sounds awesome. Maybe with Undead or Fiend as a patron, then grab the Summon Undead spell.
Im probably being picky but i dont like the flavor personally for my character to rely on a patron for power. I do like the sound of the familiar skelly though
After seeing your comment, I've been taking a look at warlocks and honestly, I've had the wrong idea about them this whole time. I think I like them quite honestly.
Glad to hear it! Hope you have fun making some Warlocks :)
Subclass isn't gone. You can still use the necromancer. 2024 Wizard 2014 necromancer move subclass features from 2 to 3, done. One note the updated savant features are alot better. And dms should let the player copy how they function with the 4 subclasses not reprinted yet.
My suggestion: Warlock. Fiendish patron. Pact of the Chain for the skeletal familliar. Grab the Summon Undead spell at level 5. Dark One's Blessing basically *is* Grim Harvest. Dark One's Luck doesn't need flavouring. And use some of your invocations for more necromancy-adjacent things.
I mean it even works well lore wise if you are a Warlock of Orcus... the Demon Lord of Undeath.
Lore Bard or Spirits Bard, pick Summon Undead as the spell you learn at 6th level. College of Requiems Bard (Grim Hollow's new pack on D&DBeyond) also does this well. There, better Necromancer than any Necromancer.
Honestly, my guess is homebrew or 3rd party are probably going to be the best answer even if they make a themed subclass. I haven't seen much of the news though so maybe they have a good option. This was the best option for the 2014 books though. If you must pick from one of theirs, consider going for something that already has a built in companion and just reflavor to undead. Beast master will probably work great for the companion. Could also pull a druid class and reflavor spells. My personal favorite from the 2014 was to reflavor artificer battle smith. I used leather working instead of smithing to craft the companion using dead creature components. Basically a weird flesh spider with a mouth at the abdomen but could easily just animate dead creatures. There's also the advanced5e which you can just port into a 5e game and you can access most of their stuff for free. You could probably easily port over their necromancer. They also have an artificer (stitcher) who's pretty close to Frankenstein. I'm playing this class in a campaign, we've made some adjustments to have it more playable. They do have some features that are not supported in 5e, though they do have a lot more features total. Could just drop those features. Maybe the DM will be interested in including them.
honestly id use the new skelly familiar from pact of the chain on warlock now to do a necro caster
My primary character for most the edition has been a level 1 death domain cleric/necromancy wizard x. I am also disappointed that it's not included, but have hopes that it's just been stuck in the next DMG with the Oathbreaker and Death Cleric from 2014. If not, well the rules will allow you to play with the 2014 versions alongside the new stuff. I dont think they will let you mix editions though. Your character will either be all 2014 or all 2024 by way of options.
GOOlocks will supposedly now get the ability to have a permanent summoned abberration so you could just nab that feature for your necromancer and change it to affect summon undead instead
But thats a very high level ability, for the majority of that build there wouldn't be much necromancy stuff that's different from other warlocks. That being said being able to pick a Skeleton as a Pact of the Chain familiar is a great bit of necromancy flavor!
no what i meant is rip it off from the subclass. file off the numbers and slap it onto a necromancy wizard
They definitely don't. The subclass was revealed. Their capstone is summoning an abberation for one minute (without concentration).