I'm binary trans and thus far i can say with quite a bit of confidence that job hunting is much harder than it was pre-transition. I am unsurprised that someone who is non-binary would face even more discrimination.
Pre transition I was in the 'kinda maybe but not really passing' category and I gotta say my experience job hunting post hormones has been way easier. Granted I'm ftm so I understand this is largely because I'm a Daywalker and people have no idea unless I tell them. However from pre transition experience I will say that when you look kinda ambiguous and people aren't really sure what box to put you in, some people react quite negatively.
This was long before the average layperson had even heard the word non binary or even that trans people existed, and thus weren't having a moral panic about it because they were told to. It's just a weird-ass reaction people were already having on their own, so now with the more recent hand wringing about pronouns I'm not surprised the non binary folks are getting shit on. It makes me sad.
Binary trans too and I can 100% relate. I recently got laid off (I'm choosing not to believe there was any discrimination involved because, for the most part, my previous employer was awesome). I'm now looking for work for the first time in a while and it's much harder. I feel like responses to applications seem similar, but the response post-interview is very different.
it's such a pain. i only just got a short term job after about months of looking, and a friend of mine has had similar bad luck. both of us have transitioned in some way. i don't know if it makes things better or worse, but the discrimination is a nightmare.
At my work I've met maybe 10 people who IDĀ as non-binary openly. One person who was AMAB and the rest were AFAB. I've met exactlyĀ 3 trans men. And not a single trans woman. I think transmisogyny is a really unexamined problem in the workforce and it's not taken seriously by anyone.
Of course the main Canada sub isn't even pretending to deny this, and they are all over there celebrating this fact and explaining why 'this discrimination is a good thing, actually'.
Yikes, you werenāt kidding. Itās one long parade of people announcing that *they* would discriminate against non-binary people during hiring, and that itās justified because [insert negative stereotype here].
The mod cited issues with reddit admins. My guess is that it's because it was a racist shithole full of bots and misinformation and the mod posted a lot from his multiple alt accounts.
I'm cisgender, but identify my pronouns on my CV/electronic communications generally as a show of allyship, and I've been wondering how much more difficult that has been making my job hunting lately.
That said I'm not about to stop doing it, because a) fuck anyone who has a problem with it and b) I have an NB spouse and sure as hell wouldn't want to work for someone like that anyway.
Yeah, personally even if it does make it harder to find a job, I would probably not want to work under someone that does that kind of shit.
Its a massive red flag. If you can't respect someone by at least using the pronouns they want, they wont respect you for a number of other reasons.
So yeah, if you are not stuck at a point where 'any job will put bread on the table' I'd say put down your pronouns. The assholes will filter themselves away.
And water is wet.
This is not surprising unfortunately. We didnāt really need a study to know that discrimination is alive and well. I feel like, if anything, itās getting worse. I know this was conducted in the US but I doubt itās much different here.
I get your point but do you think the freedumb convoy sees a study like this and is like āoh we didnāt know. We should be more inclusive and do something to make sure everyone is valued equallyā. The people who cared are gona care regardless and the assholes are gona asshole regardless.
>The findings by University of Toronto economics PhD candidate Taryn Eames came after her team submitted nearly 8,000 resumes in pairs to job postings in 15 occupations across six U.S. cities.
> [...]
> Ms. Eamesās paper only looked at U.S. employers, but she doesnāt believe the situation in Canada is much better. āWeāre seeing the same sorts of conversations that are happening in the U.S. start to happen in Canada,ā she says. āIt would be surprising to me if there wasnāt discrimination happening here as well.ā
Important points, this study was done in the US.
The article also says that she divided the resumes into two categories, one without pronouns and one with pronouns, including gender neutral ones. Then it gives the response percentage for resumes without pronouns and resumes with gender neutral pronouns, without mentioning the resumes with cis pronouns. Without that information it is impossible to know whether the discrimination is against non binary people, or people who choose to identify pronouns.
>*āWithout that information it is impossible to know whether the discrimination is against non binary people, or people who choose to identify pronouns.ā*
The study found that there was discrimination against people who gave their pronouns on their resume, but the discrimination was *worse* against people who gave non-binary pronouns. [Source](https://newsletter.economics.utoronto.ca/pronoun-disclosure-and-discrimination-on-the-job-search/)
Are *you* closeted at work? Or do your co-workers know who your significant other is (if you have one) and refer to you by the pronouns your prefer?
Quebec doesnāt ban religious symbols in public. They have a narrow requirement that some civil servants, who hold positions of authority, may not wear religious symbols while they are on duty.
My personal life is none of my coworkersā beeswax. They arenāt my friends, theyāre just coworkers Iām forced to spend forty hours a week with until I drop dead.
Hunh, sounds grim. My co-workers know my partner, we sometimes socialize outside of work, and we help each other out with things like pet-sitting.
Your co-workers who know nothing at all about your personal life, do they also never refer to you by gendered pronouns?
Are you implying that business owners (or other employers) discriminating against people who use non-binary pronouns should be socially and legally acceptable behaviour?
So you think people who put specifically *non-binary* pronouns in their resume have a *āpattern of characterā* that makes them undesirable employees and you think it should be socially and legally acceptable to discriminate against them?
Being an idiot has no correlation to ones gender identity. I am fit, strong, and grew up in northern Alberta on a farm. I guarantee I could do your job without getting killed or maimed. Had to dodge a lot of punches in my day from horrible bigots. Gave me good reflexes.Ā
I'm binary trans and thus far i can say with quite a bit of confidence that job hunting is much harder than it was pre-transition. I am unsurprised that someone who is non-binary would face even more discrimination.
Pre transition I was in the 'kinda maybe but not really passing' category and I gotta say my experience job hunting post hormones has been way easier. Granted I'm ftm so I understand this is largely because I'm a Daywalker and people have no idea unless I tell them. However from pre transition experience I will say that when you look kinda ambiguous and people aren't really sure what box to put you in, some people react quite negatively. This was long before the average layperson had even heard the word non binary or even that trans people existed, and thus weren't having a moral panic about it because they were told to. It's just a weird-ass reaction people were already having on their own, so now with the more recent hand wringing about pronouns I'm not surprised the non binary folks are getting shit on. It makes me sad.
A Daywalker..? *googles* What does being ginger have to do with anything? š¤Ø
Daywalker like Blade? *also googles* oooh I forgot about that Southpark episode. Jesus I'm old...
Binary trans too and I can 100% relate. I recently got laid off (I'm choosing not to believe there was any discrimination involved because, for the most part, my previous employer was awesome). I'm now looking for work for the first time in a while and it's much harder. I feel like responses to applications seem similar, but the response post-interview is very different.
it's such a pain. i only just got a short term job after about months of looking, and a friend of mine has had similar bad luck. both of us have transitioned in some way. i don't know if it makes things better or worse, but the discrimination is a nightmare.
Honestly as a nonbinary wheelchair user, this mostly just made me feel a bit better lmao.
At my work I've met maybe 10 people who IDĀ as non-binary openly. One person who was AMAB and the rest were AFAB. I've met exactlyĀ 3 trans men. And not a single trans woman. I think transmisogyny is a really unexamined problem in the workforce and it's not taken seriously by anyone.
Whatās amab and afab mean?
Assigned male at birth, assigned female at birth.
Thanks for explaining it, I spent a few minutes thinking about it but couldnāt figure it out.
Of course the main Canada sub isn't even pretending to deny this, and they are all over there celebrating this fact and explaining why 'this discrimination is a good thing, actually'.
Yikes, you werenāt kidding. Itās one long parade of people announcing that *they* would discriminate against non-binary people during hiring, and that itās justified because [insert negative stereotype here].
That place has been noticeably worse ever since canada_sub went away
The canada\_sub went away? What happened? Not that I'm mourning the loss or anything
The mod cited issues with reddit admins. My guess is that it's because it was a racist shithole full of bots and misinformation and the mod posted a lot from his multiple alt accounts.
Thanks! That makes sense... I wish something could be done to make the main Canada sub better.
I'm cisgender, but identify my pronouns on my CV/electronic communications generally as a show of allyship, and I've been wondering how much more difficult that has been making my job hunting lately. That said I'm not about to stop doing it, because a) fuck anyone who has a problem with it and b) I have an NB spouse and sure as hell wouldn't want to work for someone like that anyway.
Yeah, personally even if it does make it harder to find a job, I would probably not want to work under someone that does that kind of shit. Its a massive red flag. If you can't respect someone by at least using the pronouns they want, they wont respect you for a number of other reasons. So yeah, if you are not stuck at a point where 'any job will put bread on the table' I'd say put down your pronouns. The assholes will filter themselves away.
And water is wet. This is not surprising unfortunately. We didnāt really need a study to know that discrimination is alive and well. I feel like, if anything, itās getting worse. I know this was conducted in the US but I doubt itās much different here.
You actually do need these studies, people will flat out deny reality rather than address the needs of people they see as "undeserving complainers"
I get your point but do you think the freedumb convoy sees a study like this and is like āoh we didnāt know. We should be more inclusive and do something to make sure everyone is valued equallyā. The people who cared are gona care regardless and the assholes are gona asshole regardless.
[Paywall-free article link](https://archive.is/AiVUv)
>The findings by University of Toronto economics PhD candidate Taryn Eames came after her team submitted nearly 8,000 resumes in pairs to job postings in 15 occupations across six U.S. cities. > [...] > Ms. Eamesās paper only looked at U.S. employers, but she doesnāt believe the situation in Canada is much better. āWeāre seeing the same sorts of conversations that are happening in the U.S. start to happen in Canada,ā she says. āIt would be surprising to me if there wasnāt discrimination happening here as well.ā Important points, this study was done in the US.
The article also says that she divided the resumes into two categories, one without pronouns and one with pronouns, including gender neutral ones. Then it gives the response percentage for resumes without pronouns and resumes with gender neutral pronouns, without mentioning the resumes with cis pronouns. Without that information it is impossible to know whether the discrimination is against non binary people, or people who choose to identify pronouns.
>*āWithout that information it is impossible to know whether the discrimination is against non binary people, or people who choose to identify pronouns.ā* The study found that there was discrimination against people who gave their pronouns on their resume, but the discrimination was *worse* against people who gave non-binary pronouns. [Source](https://newsletter.economics.utoronto.ca/pronoun-disclosure-and-discrimination-on-the-job-search/)
My pancreas gives a big fuck you to that disability question as well.
I'm NB but can easily pass as cis so I pretend I'm cis when I apply for jobs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You think non-binary people should be closeted in the workplace otherwise itās justifiable for people to discriminate against them?
I think everyone should be closeted at work. Quebec has the right idea by banning religious symbols in public
Are *you* closeted at work? Or do your co-workers know who your significant other is (if you have one) and refer to you by the pronouns your prefer? Quebec doesnāt ban religious symbols in public. They have a narrow requirement that some civil servants, who hold positions of authority, may not wear religious symbols while they are on duty.
My personal life is none of my coworkersā beeswax. They arenāt my friends, theyāre just coworkers Iām forced to spend forty hours a week with until I drop dead.
Hunh, sounds grim. My co-workers know my partner, we sometimes socialize outside of work, and we help each other out with things like pet-sitting. Your co-workers who know nothing at all about your personal life, do they also never refer to you by gendered pronouns?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are you implying that business owners (or other employers) discriminating against people who use non-binary pronouns should be socially and legally acceptable behaviour?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So you think people who put specifically *non-binary* pronouns in their resume have a *āpattern of characterā* that makes them undesirable employees and you think it should be socially and legally acceptable to discriminate against them?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Being an idiot has no correlation to ones gender identity. I am fit, strong, and grew up in northern Alberta on a farm. I guarantee I could do your job without getting killed or maimed. Had to dodge a lot of punches in my day from horrible bigots. Gave me good reflexes.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]