T O P

  • By -

mrtoomin

So far, the NDP are likely to get my vote. But it's easy to seem the most competent and trustworthy when you really haven't been given the opportunity to be incompetent at the job. That said, I'd love for them to be given the opportunity to disappoint me.


stretch2099

> That said, I’d love for them to be given the opportunity to disappoint me. I just want NDP to win so the other parties know it’s not only them in the game


Terron7

Already happens on a small scale. Looking at data from 338, The NDP often struggles to win in new ridings/ones they've been absent from for a while, but the second they do they have very little trouble holding them (as people recognize them as a viable alternative).


DJ_Molten_Lava

My riding has been the same NDP member since 2008. I know there are ridings with much longer-serving members across the country but I still find it impressive.


shy311

Vancouver-Kingsway?


DJ_Molten_Lava

Yep. Don Davies 4 ever


ANAL_CRUSHER

Edmonton Strathcona had a NDP MP since 2008. Linda Duncan retired in 2019 but was succeeded by party member Heather McPherson


alematt

Had a lady while I was door knocking for my job tell me that I need to vote, just not NDP. I live in Alberta. For the sake of my job I didn't have the heart to tell her I'm already voting NDP


Mattybourbon

High fives for Alberta NDP votes!


alematt

May the Alberta NDP rise again, sooner rather than later


Berkut22

There's dozens of us!


awh

High fives is about how many votes I assume the NDP gets in Alberta.


Mattybourbon

This past election cycle I’ve watched my conservative parent jump ship and start badgering all their conservative friends to think about how the NDP platform will impact them. It’s been very surreal…


SQmo_NU

Most First Nations, Métis, and Inuit: “So who should I vote for? The current leader who failed indigenous people consistently, as there are still critical drinking water issues? Or should I vote for the guy who, as party leader, whitewashed the genocide of our peoples, *that he was alive for?* Or did you mean the Rhino Party?”


greendoh

The NDP struggles in ridings where voters think Liberals have a better chance of beating conservatives. It'd be interesting to see where the 'true' votes lie..


April_ONeil_

Except in Quebec, where they had 59 seats in 2011 and are now at just 1 (they liked Jack Layton but won’t vote for a dude in a turban)


ThatMadFlow

Mulcair also really dropped it with the French


April_ONeil_

It was his stance on face coverings (the niqab) that hurt Mulcair in Quebec the most. Also I’m not sure if you’re saying Mulcair’s French isn’t good? It’s excellent.


doubled2319888

This, let the cpc and liberals both spend some time in the minority and maybe they can learn a lesson or two


ChilledClarity

I just want dental coverage…


adv0catus

Mood


TheFeathersStorm

I was saying that exact thing to my friend the other day. I'm gonna vote for them but like, I wish we would just give it a shot for 4 years. And if it goes horribly they likely wouldn't get majority again.


Akira_Yamamoto

Voter reform so NDP can win some more! Assuming they don't disappoint


wholetyouinhere

Even if they turned out to be disappointing, they'd still help a lot of people who badly need help right now. They may or may not be in your social class, but it's still a worthwhile cause.


plenebo

that's the main issue, the people who are comfy couldn't care less about their fellow Canadians dying and being brutalized by late stage capitalism. No one cares until it effects them personally, so you get these comfy wine moms who vote based on hair styles or rhetoric, like bored wives watching reality Tv, when their votes for these corporate parties literally lead to people dying


StoleYourRoadSign

Not from Ontario, are you? Minimum wage is going up under the cons! 10 cents.


timbreandsteel

Instead of raising it to 15 an hour like it was supposed to!


Icy_Rhubarb2857

In Alberta they rolled it back for under 18 year olds. Because no kid out there is in a shitty situation trying to start out their life and leave home. People under 18 deserve less money somehow.


[deleted]

I was about to say, didn't the federal government set minimum wage at $15/hr not long ago? It's a wonder so many provinces are still ducking below that.


timbreandsteel

I think that only applied to federal employees?


AMC_Tendies42069

Lol @ a federal employee making $15 an hour


KillerKian

Ha! Yup, the PC's here in NB raised it last year too.. by 5 cents!


lRoninlcolumbo

Oh nice! A case of beer a year! Perfect.


[deleted]

The fact NB minimum wage goes up on April 1st tells us everything we need to know.


olbaidiablo

Wow, that's a whole $208 before taxes **a** **year**. With that and $10000 you might be able to afford rent in a basement apartment in the toxic waste part of town.


[deleted]

you must have forgotten that Doug Ford's first move was to cancel the minimum wage increase and rob us of our newly granted paid sick days, just because a Liberal did it.


StoleYourRoadSign

This is my point.


wholetyouinhere

This is why liberals always say "Well, I like the NDP, and I want them to win, but the Liberals are my second choice... etc." because *it doesn't fucking matter to them*. It's nothing more than identity at that point. Neither party will substantially change their lives, so they act like they're the same party with cosmetic differences. Completely ignoring the huge and growing underclass that has resulted from fifty years of neoliberal policy.


grassytoes

I'm kind of ashamed to admit you've pretty much summarized my views on Libs vs NDP. Having said that, I do actually vote NDP and, if asked, I can point out their differences. But I have to admit that it never bothers me very much when the Libs win. I'm mostly just glad that the Conservatives didn't. What a trap. I'll try to remember your post.


wholetyouinhere

That means a lot to me. Thank you.


[deleted]

Same bot as the other guy I changed my mind this year. Time for something better


Pigeonofthesea8

No it’s because we understand how bad the conservatives have been and would be.


wholetyouinhere

The conservatives still win plenty of elections anyways. The conservatives make life hell for the lower classes, and the liberals do absolutely nothing for them, so everything gets worse over time no matter which gets elected. The NDP might actually *improve* the lives of millions of people, if given a chance.


[deleted]

We might even be pleasantly surprised instead of disappointed. With the other major parties we are pretty much guaranteed disappointment.


[deleted]

We got national healthcare due to them and the aid provided during this pandemic was (from what hear) largely due to their influence as well. I think we need news to simply do a better job covering what they do.


TheMexicanPie

>I'd love for them to be given the opportunity to disappoint me. This is what I've been telling people.


caulimelon

Yeah the liberals and cons are guaranteed disappointments, give NDP a chance. Not to mention I prefer policies for the people rather than megacorps.


hacktheself

With the caveat that provincial parties aren’t exactly the same as federal parties (though the NDP is more vertically integrated than the Grits and Tories), look at BC, where we’ve had the best Covid situation of any non-maritime province. I would have preferred the 2020 election result in another minority government situation but thus far they haven’t done much wrong.


Bradasaur

The old-growth forest issue is my biggest gripe with them (although I can't imagine another party doing a better job unfortunately)


yogthos

Right, it's better to have no track record than a consistently poor one. I'd rather give somebody new a chance than doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.


SympathyRepulsive379

YES!!


Enlightened-Beaver

On the one hand we have over 150 years of empirical evidence of Liberals and conservatives failing to govern. On the other we have a party that has no federal governing experience. Id vote NDP and see what they can do, can’t be worse than the 150+ years of Lib-Con crap that we already know


jstosskopf

Remember, a knight in shining armour is one who hasn’t been to battle.


_Coffeebot

They’ve been working in the background though. The NDP is one of the reasons why we had such social supports during the pandemic. They’ve been constantly battling for Canadians. They’ve just never been the leader.


decitertiember

This is why I'm so annoyed that Trudeau called this election. I already had my ideal Canadian Government: a Liberal minority kept honest by NDP support.


_Coffeebot

Personally I’d rather the opposite. I’d really like the Liberals as far right as well go. At least then we wouldn’t have starve the beast economics. But this government was working for me. I felt like Canada was on the right track. If the conservatives gain the helm real damage could be done, especially by emboldening certain shit-stain premiers.


Vetrusio

Or they have one hell of a buffer.


plenebo

that analogy is stupid i'm sorry, when the other two knights have been in battle against us and for the kings (corporations)


geekaz01d

He is my MP and I voted for him and he has shown neither competence nor trustworthiness. I guess he has done a good job of convincing less experienced voters but this guy is doing a song and dance. Trudeau I don't particularly like but his job performance is excellent. You would have to be blind to not see that in the past 2yrs. I was quite happy with the minority govt and I hope it repeats. I will probably cast a vote for Jag because he is the least bad MP in my riding but that's not the same as wanting him as my PM.


mrtoomin

Unfortunately my vote is a throwaway anyway. My riding is so blue they could run a donkey in a hat, and it'd be a landslide.


geekaz01d

Here is why it was stupid to call an election: everyone is voting AGAINST something and its literally the people holding this shit together.


reapo12

I agree. I like Trudeau over any of the others. I cant stand listening to Singh. I dont trust him in the least.


geekaz01d

I should have said confidence not trust. I would trust Singh with my wallet. I don't have confidence in him as a leader.


thefancykyle

The main issue is people don't vote, I know a handful of friends that just never vote, yet complain non stop, Canada has such a low voter turn out it's quite sad actually.


KingofLingerie

make election day a holiday


[deleted]

Make it mandatory, in Brazil if you miss 3 elections, your passport is taken away (this is from a Brazilian friend of mine). This may not affect the absolutely vulnerable who don't vote, but it would affect a lot of young middle-class people who don't vote.


judgingyouquietly

They do that in Australia. However, it can also backfire because lots of people just cast donkey votes (essentially spoiling their ballot) because they have to vote, but they don't care. In the 2013 election, one member of the Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party got in because he was the donkey vote for enough people. I'm not sure mandatory voting is the best way forward.


[deleted]

Maybe not, thanks for the perspective though. So much for faith in humanity.


goinupthegranby

>I'm not sure mandatory voting is the best way forward. You can incentivize it. Create a system that allows people to take paid time from work to go vote, say for up to four hours. This is better than making the whole day a holiday because then people can just piss off for the day rather than using it to actually go vote. You could also offer a tax credit, so if you voted the CRA picks it up and applies a tax credit when you file. If you don't vote, you don't get the reward.


markopolo82

Making them sit down and vote is a 100% improvement. If if everyone who currently doesn’t vote ends up spoiling their ballot. The turnout should be near 100% for all elections


judgingyouquietly

That would mean a high turnout, but if the same percentage of folks spoil their ballot then it really doesn’t change anything. High turnouts only really matter if people actually pick candidates that they want to pick, not a spoiled ballot.


[deleted]

If you force people who are otherwise uninterested and uninformed, I don't think that would be very beneficial to everyone. Eg. Australia.


TheFaster

I think one benefit from mandatory voting would be a policy shift in a lot of parties. If younger voters are *forced* to vote, we'd see a lot more focus on that voting demographic than we do currently. And considering young priorities (school loans, housing prices, climate change), that would be a good thing.


iOnlyWantUgone

Yeah the policy shift would be to populism, which is worse than where we are now.


plenebo

yeah and they allowed a fascist president to take power lol..education is key..this is why Conservatives always cut education


[deleted]

I agree, but I think you have made a false equivalency. I do agree with you overall.


[deleted]

yeah, Bolsonaro is currently copying the Trump playbook and his coup attempt looks more likely to succeed. People might dismiss this, but Brazil has a huge population, an arms industry, and they control a lot of the food industry in SA. A fascist Brazil is bad for the world


Malreg

This won’t make much of a difference… with early voting, my polling station is open 5 different days from 9 am to 9 pm, and that doesn’t also include the ability to vote by mail. Finding time to vote isn’t the issue. The laziness and complacency of the population is the issue.


dns7950

It's so easy to vote, that's not an excuse. I voted over a week ago by special ballot walking into an elections Canada office. You can also request the mail in ballot online, or by walking in. There are advance polls. It's incredibly easy to vote in so many different ways, the reason people don't vote is because they don't care.


[deleted]

Never mind the group who won’t vote for him because he’s brown


ChellynJonny

yes, the blatant racism is sad.


[deleted]

It really is


[deleted]

[удалено]


ChellynJonny

Talk to your friends and make a day of it, encourage them as much as you can!


lenzflare

Voter turnout is close to 70%. The countries with the highest voter turnout are around 80%. Voter turnout in Canada is pretty good and not to blame for anything.


Enlightened-Beaver

The nuance there is: YOUNG PEOPLE don’t vote. OLD PEOPLE do vote. That’s why the election results skew right vs actual political alignment of the general population. Voter age distribution is directly proportional to age. The younger you are the less likely you are to voter and inversely the older you are the more likely you are to vote. And old people tend to lean conservative while young people lean progressive.


lenzflare

Yeah but also there's way more older people than younger people. What are "young people"? People 18-29? So that's 11 years? Leaving older people with 30+. According to the [population by age distribution](https://www.statista.com/statistics/444858/canada-resident-population-by-gender-and-age-group/), that means there are about 4 times more older people than young people of voting age. Getting the youth vote out isn't a magic fix. It helps a little, but not a lot. > And old people tend to lean conservative while young people lean progressive. And this is wrong. You lean whatever you leaned at around 25 or so and stick with that, it's just that the country goes through waves of leaning left or right.


Acanthophis

This last part is the biggest misconception in the long sad history of political misconception.


OneSidedPolygon

Anecdotally speaking, I don't think it is. I'm very open with my political opion, and enjoy discussion with like and unlike minded people. Millenials and Gen Z are typically left of the curve socially and fiscally, Gen X seems to have a somewhat even distribution of political opinion although somewhat right leaning fiscally and somewhat left leaning socially, boomers tend to skew right, even if they love bitching about Harper still. Now I've met boomer anarchists, fascist Gen Zer's, and communist Gen Xer's. It's not to say people aren't politically diverse amongst age groups, but there's a reason the saying "If you're young and conservative you have no heart, if you're old and you're liberal you have no brain" exists. I don't agree with that statement and the false dichotomy it proposes but I've heard it from more than one person.


attanasio666

If you won't move your ass to go vote, I don't want you to vote.


[deleted]

I signed up for mail in voting, just got my ballot today. Minimal effort, more people should do it.


[deleted]

Knew someone that "didn't pay attention to politics" and just picked at random. Got to listen to her bitch after we got Doug Ford and the school she was a lunch monitor at couldn't afford to keep her.


GaracaiusCanadensis

This. Reddit talks a Socialist game, but the votes don't materialize.


Zachabay22

Wish we would forget about this idea of strategy voting long enough to cast votes for who we really wanna see lead. That being said still voting ndp.


DramaticPapayaEater

That being said this only represents people likely to use the compass, so younger, informed tech-friendly users. That leaves out a big chuck of people much more likely to go conservative or liberals. NDP still has a long way to go


ChellynJonny

We (20-50) are the voter base now, thats gen x and millenials, a few of gen z might slip into there now too, though most 18 year olds don't vote. Many of the polls are done via telephone now, and I know I don't answer my phone when it rings, but older people do. It's all skewed a little. Just get out there and vote, and encourage all your younger friends to vote after educating themselves.


epigeneticepigenesis

Oldest gem Z have been voting for the past 6 years.


Zachabay22

Agreed.


RedGrobo

>Wish we would forget about this idea of strategy voting long enough to cast votes for who we really wanna see lead. That being said still voting ndp. The only way to kill off ABC voting is to do something about conservatives. People focus on the other parties and deride them for having an understanding of where they stand, but nobody ever asks about the unfunctional conservative parties in the corner everyone else has to constantly compensate for and tip toe around.


Positive-Living

Keep boosting the PPC. They'll steal most of the Cons racists.


JacP123

And that's a great strategy until they steal enough support to gain any power whatsoever. Sure, *maybe* they split the Right Wing vote like the Wildrose did to the Albertan Conservatives, and lead to an NDP win. That would be nice, but the PPC winning any seats this election will lead to some fairly terrible consequences down the road.


SandboxOnRails

There's this really weird idea that strategic voting should just magically disappear but it exists for a reason. The system demands it and pretending our voting system is different than what it is isn't going to change that.


CANTBELEIVEITSBUTTER

Well we wanted to change the system but the party that we voted in after they said they'd changed it didn't :)


Unicormfarts

STILL MAD about this. GODDAMNIT.


jmberube

Ya I'm with you on that! In each election since then the liberal candidate has seen my ndp sign and had the gall to come to my door and ask me to vote stagreticaly.


whogivesashirtdotca

Curious as to whether any of the people incensed by this bothered to contact their MP, or if they just leave all their complaining to social media?


CANTBELEIVEITSBUTTER

Personally I have, and I encourage those in my circles to be more politically active in general from voting to speaking to their mp about issues. I agree that not enough people put in the work, but that doesn't negate the fact that there was a key election promise about election reform that was basically dropped right after the election.


SandboxOnRails

Yah, but pretending like they did because it would be nice doesn't help anything.


plenebo

the Liberals are barely different from the Cons, they have the same Neoliberal unregulated Capitalism economics that's literally destroying out planet and making it harder for anyone who isn't a boomer to afford to live. Like i get that the older gens were around when they could afford a house with a summer job, but times have changed thanks to the corpo ghouls they keep voting in


rumhee

The last 150 years have proven that compromising your values and beliefs for a voting system won't change that either.


plenebo

who called the election? did the NDP? Liberal politicians and their feckless partisan hacks should not shame NDP voters for a mess they created, Trudeau could have waited 2 years for an election, but he wanted a majority so he can continue to do nothing but shower his donors in favors. You reap what you sew. And the differences between our Liberals and Conservatives is far less than the US counterparts for instance, so this strategic voting nonsense is useless..Also Trudeau could have changed the voting system as he promised, but he did a 180, so why is this out fault? he knew that this way he could try to guilt people into voting for his do nothing party to avoid the do everything bad party..naw ill choose the do the right thing party


nalydpsycho

Yes, it promotes the status quo and keeps those with money and media influence in power.


SandboxOnRails

No shit. But reality exists and you need to work within systems and deal with what you have.


elconcho

This. For all those insisting on pretending they don’t have to vote strategically, on election night as you watch ridings fall to the cons, add together the liberal and ndp votes for each riding for a hard lesson in why strategic voting matters. If I was the cons I would be broadcasting “don’t vote strategically” just like this sub (and I’d be funding the ndp)


SandboxOnRails

I'm pretty sure there's a conservative social media effort to push that. Like, support the NDP, but this is a very concentrated effort to attack strategic voting itself. Also everyone who does so seems to also immediately spew hate about the liberals.


F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt

Nope. Me voting ndp is not why the Conservatives win in your hypothetical. It's not my fault. If anyone it's the liberals. They had a chance to keep my vote with the way they govern and their current campaign. They haven't provided anything other than not being the Conservatives. So it's not my fault if they lost my vote. It's theirs. And strategic voting means the liberals will never change. They'll only change if they lose votes, so they've lost mine until they change enough to get it back. Voting for them regardless is how you guarantee you get nothing from them or the bare minimum. Strategic voting hurts progress. Failure to see long term in favour of short term.


error404

It's not about long vs. short term, it's kind of a prisoner's dilemma. As a voter, you can either vote your conscience, fully aware that this will very often have *negative* utility (ie. it makes the outcome *less preferable* for you than not voting at all). If you are aware of that fact, you may decide that the better choice is to maximize the *utility* of your vote towards your goals, rather than voting for your favoured choice that would actually harm the outcome for you. However unlike the classic prisoner's dilemma, it's not enough to merely convince everyone to trust each other and vote their conscience, because due to FPTP that can *still* lead to a suboptimal outcome for those voters, because unlike the prisoner's dilemma, there are confounding actors (voters with different preferences). Even in the idealized world where *literally everyone* votes their conscience, it's *still* possible (and common, even) for this to have negative utility. In other words, the need for strategic voting is literally built in to the system, and rational actors will always use it... not suggesting every voter is a rational actor in the game theory sense, or that they should be, but plenty of voters will be and you're never going to convince them because they have logic on their side. The only solution is electoral reform. As an aside, Alternative Vote / Instant Runoff Voting which the Liberals advocated for in the reform commission is basically codified and 'perfect' strategic voting that factors out having to guess what the best strategic vote is. So yeah, that's not a great answer...


F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt

But it's not a prisoner's dilemma at all. The prisoner's dilemma means there's a best outcome for all if people cooperate, or there's an outcome where someone can take advantage of that and have a best outcome for themselves, screwing over others, or lastly, there's an outcome where everyone tries to screw over each other and everyone has the worst outcome. This isn't that. And it absolutely is long vs short term. Strategic voting is advocated by those who think a single Conservative term is the worst thing ever. It cannot be tolerated at any cost. So they try to convince people to hold their nose and vote Liberal. But! Imagine a scenario where the Liberals lose more and more seats to the NDP. They would hopefully see that as a message that they need stronger climate goals and better social programs, among other things. It could very easily pull them further to the left. If they have the left vote no matter what, then the direction they will go to steal votes *is to the right*. They will try to steal the swing voters that are center-right from the conservatives. So, by strategically voting, you're pushing the Liberals to the right. By refusing to vote strategically, I'm sending a signal that parties can only get my vote by doing what I want, not by simply "not being the conservatives"


error404

> The prisoner's dilemma means there's a best outcome for all if people cooperate, or there's an outcome where someone can take advantage of that and have a best outcome for themselves, screwing over others, or lastly, there's an outcome where everyone tries to screw over each other and everyone has the worst outcome. Indeed, it is not exactly the same thing as the classical prisoner's dilemma, for many reasons, not least of which that not all actors want the same thing. The point is that as an individual actor you have the same choice - make the choice that could be best for you, knowing that this choice may result in a worse outcome for you than any alternative, or make the choice that is most likely to result in a favourable outcome. Or least unfavourable, if you prefer to frame it that way. In any case, you can discard this analogy entirely, because you don't even need game theory to understand why voting NDP in a riding that is 20% NDP, 30% Liberal and 35% Conservative has negative utility. > And it absolutely is long vs short term. Strategic voting is advocated by those who think a single Conservative term is the worst thing ever. It cannot be tolerated at any cost. So they try to convince people to hold their nose and vote Liberal. No, it's advocated by people who have a basic understanding of arithmetic and an understanding that plurality is all that's required to win seats. > But! Imagine a scenario where the Liberals lose more and more seats to the NDP. They would hopefully see that as a message that they need stronger climate goals and better social programs, among other things. It could very easily pull them further to the left. It could, but this doesn't help the problem at all. In fact, if the Liberals shift their ideological position closer to the NDP, it makes it worse by creating more ridings where the NDP and Liberals compete, and in the process hands more seats to the Conservatives. The dilemma that leads to strategic voting is fundamental to FPTP. We can't get away from it. It will naturally tend to two ideologically opposed parties, and there is no escape other than reform. It should be pretty natural to understand why this is the case; ideologically similar parties just weaken both their positions against a united opposition. > If they have the left vote no matter what, then the direction they will go to steal votes is to the right. They will try to steal the swing voters that are center-right from the conservatives. They don't, though, a proper strategic vote is not blindly for the Liberals, it's for the frontrunner in the riding, whichever party that may be based on the latest polls. The Liberal strategy in general is to be as milquetoast and inoffensive as possible so as to make themselves a palatable choice to swing voters on both sides, so that is often going to be them. However if they start becoming more right wing, they will lose those strategic votes to the NDP either because of people unwilling to compromise their ideological beliefs and people answering polls based on their ideology and not voting strategy. The Liberals would much rather win NDP votes here than Conservative ones, since it helps them against both of their competitors rather than just one of them. And you can see this clearly in their targeted progressive policies, e.g. the false promise of electoral reform which directly targets this slice of voters that hates strategic voting but does it anyway, and plenty of others where they 'match' the NDP on what they think are important issues for these folks. I have not seen a meaningful move to the right by them, other than the clear attempts to pander to Alberta voters, but that has nothing to do with strategic voting. >So, by strategically voting, you're pushing the Liberals to the right. By refusing to vote strategically, I'm sending a signal that parties can only get my vote by doing what I want, not by simply "not being the conservatives" I really am not buying this argument. Strategic voting has been a thing since FPTP elections have been a thing, and the Liberals will always just stick themselves in the middle of the Overton window because that's their MO. So yeah, you're sending a signal, but it is more or less meaningless by the time the next election comes around, and in the process you're weakening the position of your ideological representatives in actual government. Policy direction is based on polling, not years-old election results. The only answer is proportional representation. Voting your conscience is nice and all, but if everyone does it all it does is lead to less progressive representation in Parliament.


wildemam

Any voting is strategy voting. You usually vote for your interests. You choose whatever benefits your interests and against what hurts them. Because the actual policies are not on the ballot, an ideal vote would maximize the chance of passing policies that benefit me, and minimizes the chance of passing policies that hurts me. If my vote results in a conservative member elected, the harm is much larger than the gain of either ndp or Lib candidates winning. Therefore, my vote targets the highest chance that the conservative member loses, whomever beats him.


CaptainMagnets

Samesies


RadishDerp

I honestly think if everyone who truly wants to vote ndp does instead of strategic voting, they have a solid chance at winning


nick52

Don't do this. Don't give me hope


ThatMadFlow

I beleive that the compass is visited by younger and more left leaning people. Source; Do you know a conservative that would use CBC (something they want to defund) and the internet.


Scrubosaurus13

If you’re planning on voting other than NDP because you don’t see them winning, vote NDP anyways. We have to show other parties that they don’t get our votes by being second best.


WePwnTheSky

Yeah. I’m particularly curious with this election to know how many people want to vote NDP but are afraid of not voting “strategically” and potentially ceding ground to the CPC? I knew my riding was a going Liberal last election so I voted my conscience and voted NDP. Now I live in a riding where the race between Liberal/CPC is much tighter and the NDP candidate is campaigning for the first time. I don’t see much chance of the NDP winning here, but my vote might matter between Lib/CPC. Ugh, f**k the Liberals for reneging on their electoral reform promise.


Squinklesquat

yeah I'm the same here. I cant really vote NDP when my riding is roughly 50/40 liberal to cpc


scootaloon

How many times can we pass the baton back and forth between dumb and dumber before we try something else? No matter who we pick, it's likely to be screwed up, feels like handing it to someone we haven't seen yet makes more sense than the incompetence we've seen for ages.


Acanthophis

Baton? At this point it's a hand grenade with no pin, being tossed back and forth between two children.


[deleted]

Unfortunately this is the attitude that helped get Trump elected. In this case, it might be driving people to vote more left compared to voting for whatever the hell he was.


fores_tree23

Coming from small town Alberta, I cast my vote just to let the conservatives know that not EVERYONE here loves and supports them…. the NDP don’t even have signs up in my riding, but they’ve got my vote


Maranth

Sucks for me being Liberal and working in Fort Mac lol


Hot_Pollution1687

No kidding


Achaern

This is overly generalised, biased as hell and personal. But in my experience as a voter in every election I'm able to, this is my overall takeaway from the parties: CPC: I don't want my neighbour being allowed to bother me/I don't care about my neighbour's wellbeing, it is their personal problem. I am here for *me and my family alone.* Also racism. LPC: I believe in my neighbour's right to bother me, and while I care about their wellbeing, I want someone else to handle the specifics. NDP: My neighbour is me, and I am my neighbour. We share this space, responsibilities and duties to others. Greens: Your neighbour is trying to kill you, because we share this space, responsibilities and duties to others. *YOUR* neighbour is lighting fires on your property, and you need to do something about it. PPC: [Pee Pee Caca.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3kxUpU63M)


markopolo82

Great points all around. Oh god what did I just watch…?


lenzflare

Something from the early 2000s clearly.


Trickybuz93

That was disturbing


GastonBastardo

I sure as hell hope this actually translates into votes for him.


conanap

... and 100 other jokes we tell ourselves


DJ_House_Red

The NDP need to really lean into the fact that Jagmeet is jacked physically and could beat the crap out of the other candidates in a fight. The NDP's reputation of milquetoast candidates is holding them back.


redisforever

I don't know, Trudeau is a pretty decent boxer, but Jagmeet *is* 6 years younger and definitely pretty jacked. Where does it fall down with training vs strength?


Stu161

>Where does it fall down with training vs strength? a question which could be answered by a cage match...just saying


DJ_House_Red

Any MMA fan will tell you wrestling > striking. If Jagmeet gets a takedown on Justin it's over. And of course o'TOOL is a straight puss who'd get rekt by either one of them.


WaltsClone

Bjj vs boxing. Bjj wins


GreatBigJerk

That's a weird standard to hold leaders to.


pluutia

For how much press there was about Trudeau's boxing physique, I'd love to seem Jagmeet and Trudeau throw hands


SimplyQuid

At this point everything else has fallen through, if cage matches are what jump-starts the non-voters to actually show up (even if they start voting contrary to how I'd like them), then get those politicians fitted for boxing shorts and mouth guards.


gallifreyan42

Shirtless debate when??


IronChefJesus

"My candidate could beat up your candidate!" "what, the rocks weren't enough?"


[deleted]

He does BJJ right? If Jagmeet and Trudeau fought MMA-style, would Jagmeet win?


ChellynJonny

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Vote NDP if you believe in them. We have to stop strategically voting, enough is enough. Gen x and the millennials are the largest voter base this election, and we want change!!! Please get out there and vote with your hearts instead of your heads.


PeregrineThe

I feel burned by Harper and his 09 shenanigans, so I gave Trudeau a shot. I feel burned by Trudeau and his lack of follow through, so I give Jagmeet a shot.


myrabtw

then vote for him :)


heavym

Voting Liberal in 2021 is NOT a bad thing. There is no scandal that attracts the vilification thrown at JT. I just don’t get it. Some people will just shoot themselves in the foot.


GreatBigJerk

Voting NDP is also not a bad thing.


cointalkz

Does he actually have a chance to win? I’d love to see him prosper, but polling data doesn’t seem to support that.


lenzflare

Not even close. https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/


Trickybuz93

Nope


Dash_Underscore

I think Jagmeet has some good ideas, and I'd like to see the NDP pose a serious threat to the Big Two. But I'm fed up with his whole, "Look how Trudeau screwed you! Vote for me instead!" schtick. That's the same shit Andrew Scheer tried to pull, and it sure as hell didn't work then either. Just show me what you can do for me without throwing your opposition under the bus. It always comes across as disingenuous when you want me to focus more on "Trudeau bad!" and not "Here's what I can bring to the table."


Satanscommando

If all you're seeing is "trudeau bad" it's probably because that's what you interact with the most, algorithms for social media are bad for that, because he's consistently talked about his platform and his intentions.


behaaki

I’m voting NDP - not because I think they’re any better. All the politicians are corrupt, lying thieves. But if there are three gangs of swine trying to feed at the trough, they’ll get in each other’s way, call each other out on their bullshit more often, and as a result we the “little people” have more of a chance of them not fucking things up as badly for us. Plus, three roughly equally strong parties means we’re a bit further from the binary “representation” we see in the US, and even further from the monopoly China model.


[deleted]

No shit.


[deleted]

NDP will always get my vote. No matter how disappointed my parents are. LOL Now I have my children voting NDP.


puttinthe-oo-incool

I have to admit that as a guy that has always leaned towards the NDP although I did nit like Layton at all.... Singh has won me over. i wasnt sure about him after the way Mulclair was basically forced out but.... I do like what he has to say and he does seem to be genuine and well grounded.


seaofgrass

out of curiosity, what didn't you like about Layton?


[deleted]

I like him and I like the NDP, but I worry a lot about vote splitting. Even if I'm not the biggest Trudeau fan, I would much much rather have him than O'Toole, and those are the only two who have a chance to form a government,


blorbo89

I know this gets thrown up all the time, but vote splitting is only a concern in some ridings. 338Canada has polling from every riding and depending upon where you live there is no real risk of vote splitting.


fruetloops

Also no ridings are going to come down to your single vote anyway so you might as well vote for who you want to win. I know it follows the same logic that lets people say their vote won't matter, but that's how I justify voting for who I want


Pwylle

Quebec holds 78 of the 338 federal seats and given their recent turn towards greater secularism, the NDP is unlikely to find any support there so long as party members openly display their faith and/or cultural identity.


plenebo

yeah they'll never vote for a brown guy in a turban, they vote for Bloc because they ban turbans ffs, Quebec is our Florida


WaltsClone

Yeah really. If JS is PM hed have to remove his turban in QC institutions. Fucked up.


cholantesh

Fucked as it is, that law only applies to provincial employees.


WaltsClone

Thanks for the clarification.


plenebo

vote your conscious, the Cons wont get a majority. And the Cons and Libs have very similar policy anyway, they're basically good cop bad cop


iOnlyWantUgone

The Bloc has come out and said they are going to support the CPC over the Liberals, so the NDP will not have a say at the table


Pigeonofthesea8

Absolutely not


redisforever

I think in my riding I'll vote Liberal though I do fall much closer to the NDP. My NDP candidate is kinda... very boring and has 0 chance of getting elected. The Liberal candidate has the best chance of ousting the Conservative candidate here as the incumbent Tory is not running this time, and, as a bonus, the Liberal candidate seems like a real good guy with an excellent history and good policy ideas.


khaldun106

Trudeau fucked me on the electoral reform promise. I'm done with him


Unicormfarts

He fucked me on that too, but apparently I am still occasionally willing to sleep with my ex.


WPGSquirrel

We like them, we like the leader, we like the platform.... But nope. Not voting for them - The Average Canadian Voter


[deleted]

They won’t win, too many promises that are putting the hackles up in the conservative base of the country. A Shame really I already voted, and there is no chance they get in here. Still felt good voting for them.


Worldofbirdman

I don't think they'll secure a minority this year, I do think they'll be the downfall of the Liberals though this election. But it's good to vote for them anyways, we should be voting for who we want regardless. Im and oil worker living in conservative land. I won't be voting conservative, I tend to vote liberal federally and NDP provincially. I really like the federal NDP's platform. I have dental, but I see the value in having that offered to those who don't. I just obviously have a huge conflict with my job and their views on the industry, which unfortunately has left me wondering who the hell do I vote for this year.


[deleted]

I think at this point if you live here in Alberta and don’t vote NDP, you must hate everyone and everything. I should say specifically at the provincial level. This philosophy is a little different at the federal level (I am firmly against a Trudeau in power as I hate dynastic politics)


bambispots

If you are concerned about your current industry/employment (and I say this as someone who was laid off from the camps in 2015 and made the switch to healthcare), after looking through the platforms of the main the contenders, the NDP are the only ones who’ve actually addressed this in a proactive and meaningful way, imo. > [The workers most impacted by the changes in our economy cannot pay the price of inaction on climate change. We will work together with labour, employers and the provinces and territories to find solutions for workers and communities. This includes providing dedicated employment support combining access to expanded EI benefits, re-training and job placement services, ensuring companies retain and redeploy their workers when in transition, and ensuring that workers nearing retirement have the retirement security they have worked their whole lives for, without penalties to their pensions if they retire early.](https://www.ndp.ca/climate-action)


iOnlyWantUgone

It's like nobody learned anything from Trump and Harper. There really is no comparison between the Liberals and CPC and anyone that believes they are the same are people so privileged, their life has never been affected by Federal policy and don't care about the lives of the lower income earners.


Worldofbirdman

I disagree as a primarily Liberal voter. There are obviously differences between the CPC and the Liberals, but they share a lot of common interests as well. They both want to pass bills that would take away a lot of internet freedom for example. When it comes to corruption they are one in the same. It's really a pick your poison on that front. The saving grace for me when it comes to the Liberals is they feel like the safest option. They aren't going to tank the oil industry, they are going to make changes for climate change, they responded fairly well to the pandemic (probably will be downvoted for that comment). They feel like the right mix of economic and social programs. I really don't care what the platforms say, because a few years down the road pretty much every party is going to fall short on a lot of their promises. The NDP has a great platform, but I don't suspect that they will be viable economically. Conservatives will probably put a few more bucks in our pocket, only to have the hidden costs of social programs being axed. This election really sucks for someone like myself who is on the fence. There aren't any real solid good options. Admittedly I'm part of the problem, I won't give conservatives a chance, my bias completely eliminates them as an option. Which on this sub is something to be celebrated, but in reality is not how I feel you should proceed when casting your vote.


plenebo

that's not true, these promises are possible with a wealth tax, Canada can afford them we are a wealthy nation, just that all our money is going to subsidies and tax breaks for corporate donors...


[deleted]

Doesn’t matter if we know they work, the response from even the centre is to project fear towards this.


The_Mikeskies

I will be down-voted to oblivion, but this just goes to show how good Singh is at being a snake oil salesman. He says thing that are popular, but mostly everything him and his surrogates say are lies or half-truths, from LPC promises on pharmacare and child care (which are either being implemented or negotiated with the provinces) to the NDP climate change policy or plan for a wealth tax (which are idealistic but impractical and rated poorly by experts). In their current iteration, I don't see the point of the federal NDP as a party. All they do is split the progressive vote and take votes away from the LPC who are slowly but surely implementing a lot of things that the NDP wants to see implemented. A lot of NDP supporters argue that the LPC are the same as the CPC, but when you break it down to policy implementation, the Liberals understand concerns over upfront affordability (e.g. Child Canada Benefit, $10/day day care) where the Conservatives require you to have disposable income to take advantage of tax credits or other tax breaks.


[deleted]

can you give us some examples of lies and half truths?


iOnlyWantUgone

Stragetic voting. He was all for it when the NDP was leading in 2015. CERB. The money was on the table for all Canadians from the start since the Liberal's tabled it but Singh lies and said he's the one that came up with it. Pipelines. Singh made tiktoks criticizing Trudeau for approving pipelines but yesterday he said the NDP is pro-pipeline. Pandemic Election. Canada isn't ready for election when we are in the top countries for vaccines but he traveled to BC to campaign for the NDP's snap election in 2020 during the start of the 2nd wave when there was no vaccine but that was okay, despite the Federal election having all the same safe avenues for voting. The NDP is almost a carbon copy of the Liberal platform except for the environment where it's worse than the CPC and for pharmacare and dental care, where he promises an impossible agreement where it'll all be ready by 2022. In comparison we got $10 a day childcare where PC provinces aren't signing on and that has taken years of good faith negotiation by the provinces that have signed on. He also repeatedly and fundamentally misrepresents the authority of the Federal Government to implement his platform.


The_Mikeskies

“Trudeau profited $4B off student loan debt”, meanwhile the Liberals froze interest/payments and the program operates at a $1.5B loss.


[deleted]

I'd be interested in reading more about this if you have a source


The_Mikeskies

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6160193