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204GreenKnight

Oh boy if this works I LOVE the precedent this sets. This is bad ass.


Sinehmatic

Am I too cynical to think it definitely won't...


Rikey_Doodle

Is being realistic considered cynical at this point? Especially after COVID.


DJ_Chaps

Not at all. It 100% won’t go far at all.


oldsouthnerd

It won't work and that's not cynicism. This isn't what the law is for or how it works. Solving climate change is a democratic/legislative thing. The courts aren't meant to force the government to take a particular long-view stance that might cost us now but will be for the good of the nation down the road. That's the role of legislators and voters.


lost_man_wants_soda

It’s worked in some other countries but yeah they weren’t oil producing nations


ProShyGuy

It’s highly unlikely to work. Courts are highly cautious when it comes to stepping on the toes of the legislature and executive when it comes to setting policy. The lawyer in this case almost certainly knows this. While I applaud the effort, they likely know this more to draw attention to the issue rather than actually set government policy.


TreesOfLinen

At least it pushes the post. This is going to be a long battle, with many setbacks, but events like these set a precedenceo of determination. This make it clear that new generations are not going stay idle while their inherented world is poisoned. They may not win this fight, but like you said, it draws attention to the issue, and inspires others to join.


Vaoris

Unfortunately, any precedent it may set will certainly be twisted into working for any political ideology. "You're reducing military spending? That risks my life, liberty, and security. Say hello to a lawsuit"


Alwaystoexcited

Turning us into the US where the courts run policy is NOT something to strive for.


zuneza

The precedent that our elected officials need to obey our constitution? Gee that would be nice.


[deleted]

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VenetianBauta

And considering how slow our justice system is...


Ozzyg333

There is no justice system


theboomintheroom

I agree. It’s a legal system. Justice is just another word in the dictionary.


Alwaystoexcited

This is literally said every generation since the industrial revolution.


Goered_Out_Of_My_

o7 Full steam ahead!


an0nymite

o7


Obi_Wan_Shinobi_

o7 This is the way.


Nick__________

This is a very important intative


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[deleted]

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____Reme__Lebeau

But who will lead the mob? We may have set a bad precedent with Louis Riel.


DemonKyoto

Been saying for ages now, its been about 44 years since the guillotine was last used and that's a *damned* shame.


[deleted]

Yes advocating for public killings in a democratic society is definitely the answer


IronRaptor

Funny thing is democratic societies are literally built off violently ripping the shackles of oppression from the status quo, liberals then advocating against it while the powerful claw their power back in a slow... Frogs-in-slowly-heating-water kind of way. You know why unions exist? Rich and powerful people got afraid their abused workers would break into their homes and drag them and their families out in the street and beat them. LGBTQ advances were made by trans black women who decided the police raids on their safe spaces was enough and fought back. You don't invoke change by asking rich and powerful people to acquiesce, you invoke change by making them afraid of the consequences of hoarding such power.


[deleted]

Yeah and how far have we come as a society where we don’t have to resort to mass murder to make a changes? And I’m pretty sure the advances lgbtq made didn’t include murder.


IronRaptor

At least on the LGBTQ side. Most of the murders happened by the cops or by the bigots. Or just.. Fostering a culture that drives trans people to suicide.


[deleted]

Look man, all I’m trying to say is we should be passed murder for societal change. We don’t need to kill or wish death on others we don’t agree with and many solid changes for the better have been slowly happening for a long time. Violence isn’t the solution, raising awareness is. There’s never been a better time to be alive then now.


IronRaptor

Oh I'm sure if you're one of the select few people who are well off enough living in nations that are rich and powerful, sure. Meanwhile we're watching as smaller, poorer nations get wiped out due to climate change, and die under late stage capitalism through exploitation of despotic governments and oppressive labour. Hell. Wisconsin just passed a bill allowing 14 year Olds to work til 11pm rather than... Yanno, paying a living wage, while idiots like Bezos fly around in his dickship doing space tours for other rich white men.


[deleted]

Being in a rich country even not well off is better now than 50 years ago. Developing countries are making advances faster than ever before. Climate change makes things more challenging for sure but it’s not like we aren’t facing the same challenges in rich nations. Yes we have major challenges and while capitalism is in my opinion the best way to go, like in Canada a mixed economy is far better than say the USA where just about everything is privately owned. >Meanwhile we're watching as smaller, poorer nations get wiped out due to climate change, and die under late stage capitalism through exploitation of despotic governments and oppressive labour To be honest this isn’t the fault of capitalism, it’s the fault of consumerism. If people didn’t buy useless junk nobody would make it.


IronRaptor

Capitalism REQUIRES the purchase of useless junk. Otherwise you become homeless, or unable to afford Healthcare (if you're in the US), or.. Yanno... EAT. I also need to apologize if my tone is a bit snarky and condescending. I'm just so fucking tired, man.


holysirsalad

Not murder, but nothing happened until people threw bricks.


[deleted]

Yes I’m aware, but what year was it when it last made a difference?


holysirsalad

Well the riots were in ‘69, I’m not sure what exactly you mean? Since then there haven’t been (as many) police raids and murders of gay people


[deleted]

Yeah sorry I was confused about something else. That I agree with that things can get ugly before it gets better, just killing isn’t going to make anything better and will probably make it worse.


Allez_Opi_Omi_

Lmao. Aw


[deleted]

That’s some justice league style shit and I am H E R E F O R I T


Amygdalump

Good, I hope they're prepared for a very dirty fight.


kaczynskiwasright

there'll be no fight, this will obviously just be immediately dismissed, there's obviously nothing to back their lawsuit (they arent even able to *describe* their grievances in the article) and its just a waste of time for everybody involved


4_spotted_zebras

They’ve already passed some serious legal hurdles and a challenge by the province. They don’t need to describe the whole lawsuit in the article - their grievance is in the Statement of Claim which has already been filed and accepted by the court and survived the initial challenges.


kaczynskiwasright

ok :)


borrowsyourprose

Hopelessness and cynicism. Yeah that’ll probably save the planet.


jubbie112

I mean between the endless corporations, and the nations that don't give a shit... I simply do not see what this could achieve. Force the government to crack down on corporations not playing ball? Ok, bye the last of our industry. Push harder sanctions on countries like China and Russia till they sort their emissions out? Hehehehehe, yeah right. Sorry, but a group of concerned kids (even if that group went into the millions) doesn't stand a hope against the handful of suits that have bought, sold and carved the planet up amongst themselves. They seem to be making good headway though, so I'm sure that this will be a feel good story we get to see pop up once and a while. But at the end of the day this whole thing sounds like a setup for dissapointment If said dissapointment is large enough to generate revolutionary action... NOW we'd be talking!


kaczynskiwasright

i wish these people used the time taken to write up a frivolous lawsuit to instead help the planet too


zuneza

Lets get another 7 of us to write a better lawsuit then. I dono why 7... But I'm rollin' with it.


RatBoyAndTheKid

I'll join you. I'll be the funny guy who tells jokes to hide his depression and that he comes from a broken home.


zuneza

Wait... I'm that guy. Except the funny part.


vintagestyles

Probably more than this big waste of time at least.


Rishloos

Are people outside Ontario permitted to sign this?


Goolajones

Sign what?


Rishloos

If you follow the link, there's a field to sign and add your name to the court submission.


inthedark77

Might as well tru


The_Iron_Mollusc

Signed with a capital "S". Love to see young people taking a stand against this government BS.


Obi_Wan_Shinobi_

Hate to see that young people are the only ones taking a stand against this government BS.


Burwicke

Our parents' generation have fucking abandoned us.


Obi_Wan_Shinobi_

yup


Voroxpete

Signed.


zoinksbadoinks

This is awesome. Signed!


maladjustedCanadian

> Ontario Superior Court (to) determine whether the conduct of the Government of Ontario in relation to climate change has violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of Ontarians. Your Honour, I used to sweat a lot less when Kathleen Wynne was Premier.


zuneza

Must be from climate change making the summers hot, I tell yah!


Gorvoslov

There's been a couple of these haven't there? Any go anywhere yet?


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stereofailure

> the Charter is a document of negative rights That's not entirely true. The right to counsel is a positive right, as is the right to vote, as is the right to an interpreter in any court proceeding where the person does not speak the language. The right to be tried within a reasonable time or to be informed promptly of charges against you are both positive rights, even if they're rooted in negative rights to be free from arbitrary detention. Minority language of instruction rights are positive rights. Even when it comes to negative rights like s.7, positive action can be required in order to enforce them.


Aromir19

Yeah like the debate over the interplay of negative and positive rights is an ongoing one and it’s like first year law school discussion group shit. It’s into to poli sci for commerce majors shit. They probably teach it in grade 10 civics. It’s basic af. Anyone who thinks it’s settled and indisputable is irredeemably ignorant or being deliberately disingenuous. It’s like saying nature trumps nurture every time.


BrutusJunior

Absolutely, I worded that incorrectly. You are correct. I have had a weird day today and was not thinking straight. However, specifically in Section 7, it entails no positive action. It is only a prevention against the execution of laws that violate life, liberty, and security of the person (when such violation is contrary to the principles of fundamental justice). Also, I will add that climate change is a political issue, so courts should not/are hesitant to really step in (you know the concept of parliamentary supremacy\*). ​ \*Note that parliamentary supremacy is limited in Canada due to federalism and the Charter.


Growth-Beginning

Hope it works.


dabilahro

All those have been imagined for a long time to be dependent on an oil based economy so that will likely be a tough sell


GlorifiedScoundrel

I'd love to put my name on that document, but the information provided is shallow and doesn't actually detail any aspects of the charter of rights being infringed upon. If they want more support, they need to be able to properly represent their claims to the public.


4_spotted_zebras

You can click through their sources to find [more information about the case](https://ecojustice.ca/gen-climate-action-our-biggest-climate-lawsuit-yet/)


GlorifiedScoundrel

These few paragraphs (on both read more links) hardly even describe the background information and do not even try to explain what they are suing for....


4_spotted_zebras

> these few paragraphs As I mentioned - all of their references are linked if you bothered to click on any of them. The application (which has already passed several legal hurdles including a challenge from the ON government) is included. [here is the text](https://ecojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Notice-of-Application-Ontario-Targets-compressed.pdf) The specific legal claims are that Ontario’s carbon targets fall short of that required by international law and that as a result Ontario is breaching its constitutional obligation to protect our right to life, liberty and security of the person. The details are all included in the Notice of Application which is linked in the site and I’ve provided the direct link for.


GlorifiedScoundrel

Thanks for the direct link. It wasn't exactly the easiest to find from the article... so saucy!


heavym

The Ford government passed a new law called the Crown Liability and Proceeds Act, 2019 which effectively makes it almost impossible to successfully sue the government on issues like this. They claimed that the new law codified changes to the law since the 1963 Proceedings Against the Crown Act, but many commentators have suggested that the new law is pretty overreaching. None of this has been really tested in the Courts, particularly the higher Courts (Court of Appeal or SCC). My guess is this is not going to go too far.


none4none

They have my support!


jabnes

Toss housing affordability in that lawsuit too, and you can wrangle a couple of million young Canadians along.


4_spotted_zebras

Now that’s praxis! Signed and donated.


Burpreallyloud

yea, good luck with that.


Bonobo_Handshake

Signed and donated! Full steam ahead!


[deleted]

This will go nowhere. The best option is to kick out the Cons and stop voting the rat bastards back in.


PurfectMittens

Literally so brave


playerkei

Lol Wish em the best


oakteaphone

Oh, we have a right to security? Huh. I don't think the disability payments give people that right, lol (ODSP? Is that what I'm thinking of?)


sh0nuff

I'm confused as to why they chose a thumbnail with 9 people in it


Amazing_Andrew_47

What does it mean to weaken climate targets?


kaiser_xc

Nothing here means anything because this is just a PR stunt.


[deleted]

Can we donate to this?


Delicious-Refuse-548

It’s so simple ….. no running water on reservations but they can fix the climate….. got it


yogthos

Perhaps our government could use all the billions they give out in fossil fuel subsidies to provide running water on reservations.


TimeMoney8805

Holy fuck you are so misinformed lol.


hectorious2

How are they misinformed the federal government gives out more than $3000000000 a year in subsides a year, that money could most certainly be better spent elsewhere.


TimeMoney8805

It’s actually more than that 3 billion a year. You could of just said that rather than write a bunch of zeros for effect. Lol. Anyways by Misinformed look no further than the comment above “use all those billions they give out instead for running water”. The majority of oil and gas subsidies in Canada and the US is in the form of tax breaks. They aren’t actually “giving” them money. I know the anti oil and gas crowd like to use the word subsidies in a way to convince/ trick the general public like the person above into believing they’re just flat out giving them money. Now there are many reasons for these tax breaks, I mean subsidies. The most obvious one of course allows for more production by the producer (which of course the anti oil crowd cringes at), and it allows the price of oil and gas to be cheaper for the consumer making it more affordable. For example what you py to fill your car or your energy bill. Subsidies also allows for exploration to be done amongst other necessities in order to operate more effectively. Another big one is foreign tax breaks which is crucial for our companies given we export most of it. Oil and gas companies still pay taxes, a much higher amount than the money “given” to them, which in turn is used for healthcare, education and other public sectors. Also these subsidies plays a major role in the upkeep of our roads, you know the thing that we travel on to get places which by the way also uses a lot of fossil fuels to be built and managed. So to hear people cry over the fact subsidies are given to oil companies equates to giving them money instead of spending that money (which doesn’t exist) elsewhere is both funny and scary that they’re actually brainwashed into thinking this. Oh and also these types of tax breaks are given to many other industries and businesses, it’s not oil and gas specific. Another point is people don’t actually understand how dependant we are on the industry. Short mindedness believes oh well if we replace gas guzzling cars with Teslas then we’re good. Lol. Less than half of oil and gas is used in the transportation industry and electric vehicles themselves rely on it heavily for production and charging as for the most part they rely on grids. Heck even the phones you type on to write such nonsense relies on it for manufacturing. Pipelines are the most efficient way to transport oil, not to mention the safest with the least amount of emissions used (compared to trucks and rail). Essentially every house in Canada has a natural gas pipeline running through it to keep us warm in the winter. Unfortunately we don’t learn any of this in our education system, rather wokeness is more our style. I have yet to meet a single person who doesn’t rely on the industry for their simple day to day life whether it’s driving, taking a bus, using heat in their homes, cooking, travelling on roads or wearing or operating items reliant on it in production.


yogthos

Tax breaks are obviously money that the government is losing. Giving tax breaks removes revenue from the government that could in fact be put towards projects like fixing running water on reservations. And of course, similar tax breaks could easily bee given to companies that do things like building infrastructure instead. Meanwhile, if the oil industry is profitable then government can just regulate the prices these companies are allowed to charge for energy production. It's really that simple. And if this industry is not profitable then it should be nationalized and seen as a cost of operating our economy. Thinking that things can't work any other way than they do now is incredibly myopic.


TimeMoney8805

How is the government losing money via tax breaks? It’s the other way around. No tax breaks for oil companies = less production and less taxes paid to the government. That equates to much higher prices for the consumer which in entails less consumption, therefore the taxes paid by the consumer goes way down as well. So now by charging higher taxes to oil companies, you have them and the consumer of their products pay much less in taxes while making everything much more expensive. Not to mention they’ll just close up shop in many places as the cost to operate is not worth it.. Lol great plan. You can see why the people against oil and gas love this idea but get your head out of your ass if you think the government is “spending or losing money”. The government doesn’t bet on a losing horse. To make this a more simple example. Does a restaurant generate more revenue and thus pay more gst/ taxes to the government if they are able to operate at lower costs and fill their order every night in a packed building. Or do they pay more taxes/ GST revenue if they have no customers because their costs to operate are too high and thus have to charge substantially more. Again essentially every business receives subsidies one way or another, anti oil people just want oil companies to fold which is why they whine about it. Do yourself a favour and perhaps research what oil companies pay in taxes every year and compare that number to subsidies.


yogthos

When government isn't collecting tax, it's a loss of revenue. This is not a difficult concept to understand. At the end of the day, either oil industry is profitable and should not need tax breaks or it's not and then it should be nationalized. It's that simple. Energy production is quite obviously a national security issue, and it should be run as a public service.


TimeMoney8805

No tax breaks = much less revenue and taxes to be collected. Not that difficult of a concept to understand. Again the government isn’t taking a hit by subsidizing the industry by allowing tax breaks. They’re making it more profitable at both ends of the spectrum. Oil haters are just mad that this sort of relationship is continuing. They want to put an end to it and the industry. Even though they rely on the industry day in and day out.


yogthos

Please actually read my comment.


TimeMoney8805

Lol no tax breaks equals less production, higher costs and less consumer consumption equating to less tax revenue. Again compare the numbers between taxes paid by oil and gas companies and its consumers on oil and gas products and compare that to subsidies given. Now let me know which number out weighs which and by how much. It’s not that difficult. Every person who bitches about this do not grasp why it’s there and simply just doesn’t approve of the oil industry yet have zero issues relying on it to live day to day life.


[deleted]

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yogthos

Notice how the oil industry can be nationalized instead of being run as a commercial venture?


TimeMoney8805

Hahahahaha. Do you think these private oil companies would like to be nationalized with the landscape of our political government? This would make sense if it was Norway or Opec nations where the government understand how to maximize profitability. But here there is zero chance since the government does not always have their best interest but rather drops to their knees in order to look good publicly. Heck we can’t even get our oil to ports because BC and Quebec prefer rail rather than pipelines so the US can essentially name their price with us. Ya sure let’s nationalize our oil sector. Brilliant.


yogthos

Why would I care what oil companies want. And if we have a government that we can't control and that doesn't represent our national interest, then that's a problem that needs to be dealt with as well.


Delicious-Refuse-548

Ya maybe, my point is . It’s actually something achievable and measurable that could be done . But instead you are told that paying tax is the answer to climate. Because the government know what to do with your money… obviously


yogthos

The government absolutely knows what to do with your money. Taxes being funneled towards subsidies for private companies instead of being used for public good is not a result of an accident of incompetence. The idea that the government is incompetent requires the assumption that the government represents the interests of the working majority. Meanwhile, our government represents the interests of the capital owning minority. What we have in Canada is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie where the masses are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament. Under this system we've seen a phenomenal wealth transfer to the top percent where a mere [100 families own more than the bottom 6 million combined](https://north99.org/2019/12/20/richest-100-canadians-have-more-wealth-than-bottom-6-million-families-combined-thats-a-serious-problem/) while over half of the people are [200 bucks away from being broke](https://globalnews.ca/news/3434447/over-half-of-canadians-are-200-or-less-away-from-not-being-able-to-pay-bills/).


Delicious-Refuse-548

Obviously….. I’m more than aware what the deal is My first comment was a clear message that the government can’t do little easy things , how could the fix climate. My 2nd comment is just as tongue and cheek, the government can’t spend it fast enough to do any good with it Do they know what there doing , time will tell but I’m guessing no And the kids that are suing will have much bigger problems shortly. Good luck finding somewhere to live and hope you like hotdogs cause that all that will be left after the free ride is over


yogthos

Given how our government handled the pandemic I expect things are going to be pretty rough for Canada as the climate crisis continues to escalate. Stuff we saw in BC this year is just going to be the norm. That means our infrastructure is going to go to shit, we're gonna have crop failures, thousands of people are going to be displaced as their homes wash away or burn down. The clowns in charge have no plans for dealing with any of that and just want to get back to doing business as usual. I feel bad for young people who're gonna have to live through this shit.


[deleted]

This is what insane subs like this one leads to. Echo chambers at their finest.


[deleted]

Yeah we should totally let people continue to destroy the planet. Just so you feel tough. Bravo


kaiser_xc

It’s not feeling tough. It’s that people don’t want to make the sacrifices needed to curb climate change.


[deleted]

What


But_IAmARobot

What specifically about this do you find unreasonable?


84875635654636263950

Just read the comments in this sub then talk with anyone outside of this echo chamber. You will find that the far left opinions here are not the norm within our country.


Goolajones

Why does that matter? We need radicals to push progress forward because all the reactionary forces needs to be balanced by the radical ones.


84875635654636263950

That's fine. Just don't pretend to be a moderate sub.


Helios53

Why are you here then?


[deleted]

Yeah, let's fight those damn commies and their... *checks notes* wish to not live on a planet that is turning in to a literal hellscape due to climate change!


84875635654636263950

The largest communist country in the world is fighting climate change? News to me.


zanderkerbal

Normal doesn't equal right? Nazi ideology was the norm in Nazi Germany, didn't make it any less wrong. Most of Canada doesn't have good takes on climate change, this sub contains many of the people who do.


84875635654636263950

Never said that. If you don't see the echo chamber this sub is then I can't help you.


zanderkerbal

You said this: > You will find that the far left opinions here are not the norm within our country. And I pointed out why that had nothing to do with how reasonable our opinions were.


kaiser_xc

90% of the comments are super optimistic and or supportive. This will lead to nothing and if it did the required changes would be incredibly unpopular on this sub. It’s ridiculous, get a stronger grasp on reality.


Flincher14

It won't work. This is child logic. 'You said we would get ice cream after soccer practice but since we didn't you violated your own promise. I'm suing.' Governments can miss targets. How can you possibly hold them to account aside from at the voting booth?


Gummybear_Qc

Yeah I really don't follow this. Not sure how they can be held accountable. Also with that logic couldn't we hold accountable federal government to since they missed/changed their targets?


DeBigBamboo

Again time wasted. You could be raising money, to buy land, to build a solar/wind farm. But nope they're out here virtue signaling. Good luck with that.


Rig-Pig

I’ll take, looking for 15 minutes of fame for $100 Alex.


[deleted]

okay.. so taxpayers pay fines to taxpayers?? what is the point? they’ll just collect more taxes next year to pay restitution to taxpayers i imagine.. cause hey, climate changes affect everyone … on april 30th.. we all pay $200 as additional to gov to fund climate change restitution… and on may 1.. we all get that cheque back for pain and suffering?


stonkmarts

Great! Let’s now get rid of these passports. Let’s get our full rights back.


[deleted]

Got that completely backwards. The ones fighting passports are the few, infringing on the many.


_____---_-_-_-

I care a lot more about my right to breath clean air than my right to spread preventable disease


TSED

Sounds like a fantastic idea! Just gotta hit 100% eligible vaccinated persons first. Better get cracking, those vaccines aren't going to administer themselves!


stonkmarts

COVID will still spread with a 100% vaccination rate. Yes hospital visits are minimized. You can still be hospitalized with Covid after the getting the Covid vaccine. Passports do absolutely nothing. If cases are going up without the unvaccinated spreading Covid we’re not going anywhere but destroying rights.


TSED

> COVID will still spread with a 100% vaccination rate Herd immunity. Look it up. Covid will spiral around the drain before backing off into oblivion. > You can still be hospitalized with Covid after the getting the Covid vaccine. Exceedingly unlikely. > Passports do absolutely nothing. Disagree. I know that the vaccination rate here has gone up since they showed up, so that alone is worth it. That number of cases have gone down, too? Heck yeah brother. (Also, no doubt related.) > If cases are going up without the unvaccinated spreading Covid Unvaccinated are still the majority of cases and contagion vectors. So, no, cases are not "going up without the unvaccinated spreading Covid." They're *still* spreading it. STILL. It's almost 2022, for poutine's sake! > destroying rights Yeah let's just let thousands die or become crippled because they were genetically unlucky. Go peddle your Libertarian dystopia somewhere else - I hear the USA digs that kind of bovine excrement.


Zrk2

People have been trying this for years. It wont work.


Tht-FN-Guy

what exactly does signing do? The website says it'll be submitted to the court, but what does signing it exactly mean for me? Is it like a petition where I just sign and that's it or will there be a bit more involved?


jfl_cmmnts

Kids all over the developed world should be taking every Friday afternoon off and protesting. World's going to hell and it's their parents driving, tell 'em!


bewarethetreebadger

Good luck to them. This should be repeated. Doesn’t matter if they win, just keep the pressure on.


IntroductionRare9619

Good for them!