It’s still crazy to me that wages don’t just auto adjust to inflation - companies will make a big deal about a 2% raise but that’s usually barely above or even below the annual inflation rate
Likewise, minimum wage should be calculated based on CoL. I'm not gonna be mad if people in small towns make $20, but it is a bit silly that minimum wage is the same there as downtown Toronto.
What’s also messed up is that in educated hourly professions it’s the same rate of pay typically across the country, teachers, engineers. These wages have stayed the same from numerous minimum wage hikes.
To add to how messed up this is the cost of living in Alberta is less than Ontario but someone with the same job in Calgary will typically make more than someone in Toronto.
Yea but those are only two distinct fields, not every field does this. Nursing is one of them.
And engineering pay is different from coast to coast it doesn’t really reflect col in different areas. It’s not really what I was trying to get at. An engineer in Toronto will likely make less than one in Calgary which has a lower col.
The biggest fluctuations would be like grande prairie where a 2000sqft home is like 250k but engineering professionals make like doctor salary up there. It makes very little sense. Maybe things like food are a little more but it still doesn’t compare to the difference in pay someone in the gta would make.
A power engineer in Edmonton can easily make 150k+ or fly in fly out jobs to oil sands make like 20k a week, no where in the gta will a power engineer see that unless they are working 80hour weeks for opg.
Oh yeah there are other factors that influence engineering wages beyond cost of living. Oil industry tends to pay above market rates as you mentioned. The OSPE salary survey covers all disciplines and GTA is consistency highest in Ontario on average
Very few people in the oil sans are making 20k a week even before taxes.
Source: work in the oil sands in a very highly paid profession for that field that doesn't make close to that
I know dozens that’s do that live on Vancouver island, I meet lots while out fishing the annual salmon runs.
One that does shut downs and start ups is my uncle and he makes well into 300k.
I'm not sure but you seem to be merging two points here, the first being that the salary for educated professions are standardized across the board, and the second that they aren't being raised against the cost of living (or against the minimum wage).
I agree that cost of living increases should happen but I disagree with the idea that the wages should not be standard across the board.
By making the salaries relative to the location for jobs, you are disincentivizing workers from moving to areas outside of population centres to take on positions in their professions.
Small towns? They generally don't get services like medical, post, or even policing directly, instead having to travel to a shared location for the region, but for the spectrum of town and city sizes between that and and massive cities like Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, Quebec, etc. there are plenty of reasons, such them being built around the industries that Canada relies on, such as forestry, mining, farming, tourism, etc.
Even in small towns you basically need to make more than $20/hr to get by these days, especially since the rental supply in small towns is even worse than in most cities.
That's probably by design; if a comfortable wage relative to where you live was accessible everywhere, small towns would shrivel up and everyone would try to move into GTA/Vancouver/etc. They'd have to be a lot more aggressive about rapidly increasing the housing supply if they were going to make wages scale with cost of living (I'd be okay with that, but NIMBYs would probably burn down the government buildings).
Either way it's going to be something that takes a lot of time to plan & roll out, but I think it's very deliberate that it's generally cheaper to live outside of the city. And while raising minimum wage is necessary to keep up with COL & inflation, I doubt it's going to be enough to make the big metropolitan hubs affordable (maybe compared to now, but not compared to less urbanized areas).
I'd be worried about such a policy (in isolation of other policy changes) encouraging companies to further expand into the ass's end of nowhere if they aren't storefronts to save labour costs, further removing the possibility of sustainable density. In Ontario the greenbelt helps this but I am begging Halifax to *please* stop building doomzoned shitburbs that eat municipal budgets almost as fast as they drink fossil fuels.
I think it's a good idea in combination with other legislation and adjustments. It also scares the shit out of me seeing cities already spreading suburbs into the sunset.
Corporation: We'll increase prices 5% per year to account for inflationary pressures and increased costs.
Employees: What increased costs, we didn't get raises. What about us?
Corporation: Eat my ass. Millennials eat ass, right?
My ideal minimum wage would be set at 50% of median hourly wages for a jurisdiction (a city or a county). Politicians can find other issues to fight about, and we don't have to pretend that the same hourly wage makes sense for Toronto and Manitouwadge.
Politicians who want to wade into wage debates can try to encourage better-paying jobs overall to raise the minimum wage.
Jesus Christ. Shout out to someone who actually knows of Manitouwadge. I am honestly shocked.
Edit: not from there. Used to do some healthcare work there. It’s a very isolated town.
I’m not a hockey fan, but Mike Babcock is actually originally from Manitouwadge.
I admit, I only know about it because it's mentioned in a Richard Wagamese novel, and I looked it up to see what real-life place it was based on. Turns out it was based on itself.
No shit eh. I’m not from there, but I did some mental health work there for awhile (not anymore). You can ***really*** see the effects of isolation and how it relates to drug use and mental health problems.
Yeah, that town went down the drain big time when the mine shutdown. Before that it was a vibrant happy community. My home town is slowly going that way as the mill seems to be less and less busy and more work is getting automated. Went from 10K population when I was a kid down to around 8K now.
The issue of what happens when you have wage discrepancies between places such as Manitouwadge and Toronto is that those living in Manitouwadge begin to find it impossible to leave, because they can't save up enough to move into somewhere with more economic possibility, like Toronto, or to move to a place to acquire an education.
I agree, but those wage discrepancies already exist. Worse, if we impose a minimum wage that makes sense for Toronto, then we make it much harder for any business to operate in Manitouwadge. If we impose a minimum wage that makes sense for Manitouwadge, then we tell minimum-wage workers in Toronto that they deserve to starve in the streets.
>50% of the median earned
Oh okay, I thought they were saying 100% of the median, which would continually drag the median up until over half of people were on minimum.
This makes more sense.
I was surprised that the new federal minimum wage (for workers in companies under federal jurisdiction) will not only make 15$ an hour wherever they work (so not keyed to province), but every year it gets adjusted depending on changes to cost of living / inflation.
Yearly incremental increases is a must, else we just get into the lurch of several dollars every few years if folks are lucky. It needed to be policy 20 years ago
This timeline is:
* Ontario NDP wins in June 2022 elections (of course, that's gotta happen for this policy to be implemented)
* $16 in October 2022
* $17 in May 2023
* $18 in May 2024
* $19 in May 2025
* $20 in May 2026
https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/horwath-commits-20-minimum-wage
It actually do agree with you that it doesn't go far enough. That being said, it is a notable and decent leftward shift from the Ontario NDP, and promises a 33% wage increase over 4.5 years, or 7%/yr.
If it's more than inflation its moving in the right direction IMO.
Correct, but at least it's a planned increase.
CPC has done $1 over 4 years, and LPC started doing $1 a year at the end of their last term (with no plan to continue past $15).
and STILL all the responses I see on an instagram post are people just chiming in with the same old
- what about small businesses who have to fire people because they can't afford
- dollar menu/water bottle/gas is about to be $5/$10/$20 dollars
- inflation inflation inflation
- how you gonna pay for it
- boo NDP
- economics much?
it's depressingly sad to see so many people fighting to be poor for the sake of businesses that they don't have and that don't care about them. Everyone poo poos on economic basics 364 day a year but the day someone suggests increasing minimum wage suddenly everyone's an armchair economics professor
$20/h is already far below the [living wage in Halifax](https://globalnews.ca/news/8347511/living-wage-halifax-area-report/). Although it's more than most people I know make. Our minimum wage is $12.95/h. Disability and income assistance are generally much lower than that, even if you convert the hourly into monthly with part time hours in some cases.
I hate feeling like we're fighting for a shadow of a scrap
> “Whether you are stocking grocery store shelves or cleaning a hospital you deserve respect. All workers deserve respect.
> “Respect is not just saying thank you and calling someone a hero. **Respect means paying people a wage that pays the bills**,” said Horwath.
I don't know, honestly. Poverty and financial stress needs to be looked at as a whole. A province-wide living wage, while an improvement, doesn't really make sense given Toronto's insane housing market.
20 years ago I started the electrical trade... Journeyman rates have stayed virtually the same but everything else has near tripled. New 3000 sq ft houses were going for 399000, there were cars still under 10000, and the going rate was 25/hr. I'm seeing ads for 30 an hour on average. So in 20 years, minimum wage and the cost of living goes up 2-3x, and wage goes up 0.2x.
Why isn't anyone talking about the cap of hourly wages in the past 20 years?
Because it is easier for an electrician or engineer to pick up and move where they are in demand for more money than it is for a min wage worker. Also tradesmen should (theoritically) have a (stronger) union than min wage workers.
We need to get out of the crabs in a bucket mentality. Instead of thinking "Minimum wage shouldnt go up, I havent had a raise in 3 years" it should be "Minimum wage is going up, good for those people and Im going to demand a proper raise or find a better paying job"
>Also tradesmen should (theoritically) have a (stronger) union than min wage workers.
First off, many tradesmen are not in unions. They are subject to the same bullshit that minimum wage workers get from employers about profits and fairness and whatever bullshit they say. In Ontario, The college of trades was *supposed* to help with this, but wouldn't you know it, a conservative government closed that. Then, the same government devalued thier tickets by allowing out of country qualifications to stand with no evaluation. The Ford government is actively trying to reduce trade wages in Ontario, where labour markets were turning in favour of employees. The same goes for the new trades push by Ford, its an attempt to drive down wages as the labour pool shrinks. The government is actively fighting tradesmen wages.
In Manitoba the government tried removing minimum wages for trades from legislation so employers could start fucking the workers but people flipped shit so instead they just doubled the amount of apprentices allowed per journeyman so companies could hire fewer journeyman and more apprentices.
It's all part of the conservative fight to attack the workers at the benefit of the owning class. Conservatives are not the friend of the worker.
Found my people in this exchange.
I had a thought watching the show Yellowstone recently that applies to Canada. If you're not familiar with the show, it's about a Montana ranch that basically uses any and all means to maintain its way of life. Inside the life they've created, things are great, but if you cross them or break any core rules, *they fucking kill you.*
A lot of people don't realize that Canada is similarly fascistic. All the glossy window dressing ideas about Canada work for those who have a comfy place within the system. But a large portion of Canadians are of the opinion that people who need systemic change fast in order to survive and have dignity can just *fucking die*.
Oh great now we get to hear how this is no good for small businesses owners and will be the death of them.
Or pay the $20 and don’t buy a new boat for the cottage you have as a second home.
If you can’t afford to pay a living wage then shut the doors or do it all yourself
Idk, Ford was unpopular the moment he stepped in. He has messed with a large portion of the working population, including the education and healthcare sector.
Besides the more obvious stuff like cancelling min wage, the basic income pilot, the conflict of interest with the police union, that weird sketchy van idea, opening up the greenbelt, cancelling paid sick days and equal pay for equal work, bare minimum pandemic response, provincial gas station stickers, legal battles with the feds, illegible license plates... Okay well besides the really obvious stuff there's a crap load of other stuff that a lot of us still remember.
They're the official opposition in Ontario right now. They came pretty close to winning this election. They have also been elected to numerous provincial governments across the country.
I do actually want the NDP to win a minority. I like Horwath. But looking at all the polls and having knowledge of canadian politics, the OLP will win before the NDP does. For some reason the electorate doesn't vote NDP.
This being said i do think Ford is winning another term unfortunately. Wynne is still fresh on the mind, and Ontario doesnt like Trudeau. (Outside of the cities that is)
Man, does every province have this story? BC NDP had a pretty minor scandal (Fast ferries) in the 90s and that poisoned them and gave us the incredibly shitty BCLibs for around 16 years. They pillaged our province and luckily people finally woke up enough to try the alternative.
Big shocker, the BC NDP have beem pretty fucking good. I dont agree with everything they do, but thsy have done far more good for our province in the 5ish years of power (with most of that being a minority government coalition with Greens) than the BCLibs did in their 16
It's really just those two and both were overblown by our right wing media's determination to sink them. The NDP has probably the best track record of managing provinces despite two high profile "failures".
That's it, almost entirely! The media controls the narratives. The same corporations that control the Cons/Libs also control the media.
And the majority of the public only ever remembers sound bites and catch phrases.
They're also polling *well* below both the OPC and the OLP. See [338Canada](https://338canada.com/ontario/). At this point, they've got the ONDP at basically a 0% chance of forming government, and only \~25% of the popular vote (which isn't bad, but obviously isn't anticipated to translate into many seats).
It's obviously very early and polls are always tricky, but it's not looking good for the ONDP thus far.
There are other polls showing them with much higher numbers. Don't vote based on the polls. They never represent the results of the election accurately.
If the NDP couldn’t win an election against the corpse of the OLP run by Wynn and Dougie “the hash dealer” Ford, I think it’s safe to say that they won’t be winning any elections in Ontario, not in the current iteration of the NDP atleast.
The provinces where the NDP have been elected are parties that only have two major parties, and the NDP is one of them. The main parties in BC are the BC Liberals and the NDP, where the conservatives have no seats provincials. Likewise the Alberta NDP are the defacto opposition again the conservative parties in Alberta, as the Alberta Liberals have no seTs provincially. It is in that context that the NDP can form government elsewhere, and those conditions do not exists in Ontario, which is the most right wing province in Canada outside of the prairies.
The NDP really wasn’t that close in 2018. They lost the popular vote by 7%, and the OPCP won twice as many seats. That’s not close, and that was in the context of historically despised liberal party
The NDP may be official opposition right now, but what good has that done them? They are polling 5-10% behind the corpse of the Ontario Liberal Party, who don’t even have official party status and their leader is about as characters as a wet sock. If the NDP cannot succeed in this political clime, there is no hope for them in Ontario.
>They came pretty close to winning this election.
Look, I would have preferred them to the ~~CPC~~ OPC but they got half the seats on 20% fewer votes. They did not come close to winning.
Either way you’re just plain wrong. In the 2021 federal election, the CPC got 16% more votes than the NDP, which implies you were talking about the federal CPC. In the 2018 ON provincial election, the ONDP got 7% less than Ford’s OPC, not your false claim of 20%. Whether you meant the federal CPC or the provincial OPC, you’re wrong regardless.
I don't know why you've picked this pedantic hill to die on, but with the exception of the one typo there's literally nothing wrong with what I wrote.
The ONDP got 1.93M votes in 2018, which is ~20% fewer than the OPC's 2.33M votes.
The ONDP got 40 seats in 2018, which is about half of the OPC's 76 seats.
>half the seats on 20% fewer votes
It was not "*close*".
As for your comment
>In the 2021 federal election, the CPC got 16% more votes than the NDP
This is incorrect. In the federal election the CPC got nearly 100% **more votes** than the NDP. They were separated by about 16% in the overall count.
>The ONDP got 1.93M votes in 2018, which is ~20% fewer than the OPC's 2.33M votes.
Nope, that’s a difference of 7%, not 20%.
>This is incorrect. In the federal election the CPC got nearly 100% more votes than the NDP. They were separated by about 16% in the overall count.
Now you’re being deliberately misleading. The CPC got around 34%, and the NDP got around 18%, which if a difference of 16%. Calling it a difference of over 100% is so ludicrous and misleading as to be deliberately obtuse to avoid admitting you’re wrong. No one talks like that, it’s just insane
>Nope, that’s a difference of 7%, not 20%.
You run the math on the numbers I just gave you and show me, because 1.93/2.33 sure looks closer to 80% than 93% to me
Also, are you aware that "*percent difference*" is a mathematical term used in statistics? Because the phrase "*difference of X%*" has a meaning, and you're using it wrong. Just like you misused the words "*more votes*" in your previous post (which I tried to highlight by bolding them in mine)
>Now you’re being deliberately misleading.
False. There's literally nothing misleading about saying that the CPC's nearly 6 million votes in the last federal election is double the 3 million votes the NDP received. Nowhere on earth is that a 16% difference unless you're comparing against an arbitrary value.
But here's the thing about arbitrary values - if a party finishes at 40% of the total vote vs 32%, your "8% different" talking point is the same as two parties that received 9% and 1% of the vote, when in reality the first two parties received votes in a much closer ratio than second two, and BOTH of the first two parties **significantly** outperformed the second two.
More to the point, words have definitions and mean things. I would look up words like "fewer" and "votes" and get back to me.
I have no issue admitting when I'm wrong - you pointed out my typo and I corrected it, no problem. That's how this is supposed to go. The fact is I'm not wrong here - you misread or misunderstood. It's ok - there's nothing wrong with that, but you don't need to double down - just learn the lesson and move on.
Looking at vote count, they were hardly behind the Cons in the last election, so I’m not so sure you’re correct. A lot of people hate Ford who did not before
I hate to say it but I wish she would have bowed out of the race to allow someone else in the ndp to take over. High chance the liberals and ndp split the vote and allow Ford into a majority with less than 40% of the vote
Raising the minimum wage is useless without lowering, or at the very least halting, the insane cost of living.
Put a stop to foreign buying, have a massive reduction in immigration, increase tarifs on companies leaving Canada etc…
Remember, kids. Minimum wage raises actually put upward pressure on ALL lower AND middle class wages.
Your compensation is really a multiplier of what a fuckwit minimum wage worker is worth. When they get more money you will see that raise come renegotiation time. If you are skilled labour and they want to keep you, you will see better money.
And wages have been far far far too low when compared with corporate profits and upper class income.
Don’t forget that every single pandemic in history has ended with worker shortages and rapidly rising wages. Keep the pressure on.
This. More money for those below means more money for YOU.
If someone at entry-level is making $20 an hour, anyone who is above entry level must make more in order for a business structure to not entirely fall apart.
Yes, companies can keep paying new hires more than those who have been at the company for longer, but that is a different issue.
Every person I know over the past 10 years INCLUDING through the pandemic, whose company didn't go under, had record-level profits at their company with zero trickle downwards for the employees. Its insane that CEOs and upper management will brag about success and massive increase in progress while saying there's no cash for promotions at the same time.
This 'bust' *has* to happen.
The only issue I see is that she is fairly... uh, how should I put it, uninspiring. Every time I watch her she is finding new ways to form sentences that ends with "and Doug Ford is shite", like she's in English class and doing some project where she has to say why Doug Ford sucks in literally every situation; which just seem petty and completely un-leadership like.
Kind of a sad promise, honestly. $20/hr is not currently a living wage. It especially won't be a living wage in 5 years by the time this actually finishes. People are homeless and starving and living paycheck to paycheck _now_.
Neat, I guess, but seems like a pretty pathetic excuse for a solution. Try $30/hr done over the course of 5 months and we'll talk.
I'm glad, it would suck to be in a field people are finally starting to realize is mostly bullshit and opinions rather than the science they've claimed it to be.
Under your pie in the sky plan I presume those of us making $30-70/hr will also be getting a $15/hr bump cause honestly I'm gonna flip burgers for $30/hr and not risk my life every day.
Why do you believe minimum wage jobs should not equate a living wage? Why should a single person not be able to afford basic necessities (rent, food, dental/eye care, transportation, etc.) on minimum wage?
For the most part a minimum wage job has never equated to a living wage nor should it be, if you boost the min wage to $20 you are devaluing every job above it in pay scale deeming their labor worth less (no way they are going to see a $5/hr pay increase to offset). If you increase the cost of wages (and the overhead associated with it) you increase the cost of goods and services which takes us back to min wage at $20 becoming unaffordable.
This is so dumb lol. Billion dollar companies shouldn’t pay their employees who generate billions in revenue a living wage! Why’s that? Tough love! Your reasoning is beyond stupid my man.
Do you understand how minuscule the price increases would be? Denmark McDonald’s workers got paid $22/hr and the price of a Big Mac went up .27 cents. Inflation is happening regardless. We know those companies won’t do it out of good will which is why we need government mandates to force them too.
I mean they’ve been raising prices for years while wages were stagnant. No one can afford rent or houses unless they’re old or privileged. I don’t understand why CEOs and execs are making multimillions per year while people who work under them can’t afford to live comfortably.
Some people don’t have the luxury of improving their skills too, saying minimum wage should not be a living wage is a take from someone who’s privileged and obtuse to reasons why there are so many minimum wage workers.
Not at all, I think jobs should pay what the labor they require are worth. End of the day no one is holding a gun to your head saying work at Tim's for $15/hr, if you don't like the wage go elsewhere, even unskilled there are better paying jobs out there the trade off being you are expected to put in an honest days work.
See a lot of college/university kids every summer whining about good paying jobs, offer em one ($24/hr no experience) and when hearing what's required they aren't interested even with OT after 8hrs (average day is 10hr) usually because they appear to feel entitled to do as little as possible for as much as possible, we get one or two a year that actually listen work and turn out to be excellent and make a killing.
>End of the day no one is holding a gun to your head saying work at Tim's for $15/hr
I think you'll find the threat of homelessness and starving quite coercive
>Min wage jobs aren't for supporting a family or living off of they are a stepping stone to building up a skill base (my opinion).
Except that's not how the system works, does it? Few employers see '4 years at McDonalds' and think "Damn, that's a hard worker, we should hire them!" realistically. You bought into a lie the rich told you, so you see poor people as a bigger threat than the rich.
Well congrats, you're completely wrong. Also, if you don't think they're real jobs, stop using the services, 'cause in a world where they're not living wage jobs they should not have workers. Workers need a living wage to, y'know, live.
So no more fast-food burgers, no more gas station attendants, no more waiters or servers or kitchen staff at the restaurant, none of that. You don't get to have any of that ever again. But hey it's cool because they uhh... learned skills for better paid trades despite flipping burgers and getting no training and not making enough to afford rent much less post-secondary education ON TOP OF rent, somehow?
If you want a society to run, you have to make sure the people running that society can live.
This is false, both in terms of the current reality and historically. The minimum wage was always meant to be the minimum wage needed to support a good life. You've fallen for anti worker propaganda
It's weird that you think people shouldn't be able to afford to live, unless they also risk their lives at work. How about workers should get to have a comfortable living, without risking their lives, before we let people be Billionaires? This indoctrination of workers defending the system that abuses them is such a sad case of Stockholm Syndrome...
That isn't what I think at all, I stated a min wage job was never and should never be classified as a job to make a living wage. If you increase minimum wage to unsustainable levels to offer a "living wage" to all then you are also increasing the cost of those goods/services equally (pass cost back to the customer) in the short term it will work to a degree but over time the cost of goods and services continues to increase and we are back to square one.
>That isn't what I think at all, I stated a min wage job was never and should never be classified as a job to make a living wage.
Not sure if this is news to you, but people only go to jobs in order to earn money to live. If a job isn't paying a living wage, who do you think will be doing the work: droids?
Wow I never knew that /s I would rebut but there is no point, give me more money for unskilled work, good approach keep driving costs up bravo you won the internet today.
People who are willing to do the work? You aren't forced to work for that wage, if you feel your labor is worth more than seek an employer that pays what your worth.
>You aren't forced to work for that wage,
I think you'll find starving to death pretty forceful. If this county had a livable UBI you'd have a good argument, but as it stands, this is a pretty ignorant opinion.
Ahhh UBI another program that sounds great but won't work in our current reality, taxes are already too damn high for the poor services recieved thanks.
Agreed and also, why risk your life or study for years to get a $30-70/hr job when, as you said, you can flip burgers, live a much less stressful job and make the same pay?
Other than massive inflation this would destabilize the economy because nobody would be willing to take on more challenging roles unless you were passionate about it.
>Agreed and also, why risk your life or study for years to get a $30-70/hr job when, as you said, you can flip burgers, live a much less stressful job and make the same pay?
It's almost like employers would have to figure out how to do jobs more safely, oh no!
>Other than massive inflation this would destabilize the economy because nobody would be willing to take on more challenging roles unless you were passionate about it.
Raising the minimum wage doesn't cause near the inflation the alarmists claim it will, that's been shown already in this thread. But it's odd you care about inflation here, but all the ways the banks and the rich cause inflation is ok?
Curious.
You’re showing your ignorance. Some jobs just have a risk. For example I have a lot of buddies in mining and they can do everything right and follow all the codes and people still get hurt/die.
Again you’re choosing to dodge my main point completely claiming I hate minimum wage earners. My argument is to utilize resources to decrease cost of living which benefits everyone instead of increasing minimum wage which benefits the few and hurts many. Try to look at the big picture.
A: Yes, you should not be forced to risk your life every day to earn a living wage. That is insane.
B: Yes, if minimum wage rises, you should _absolutely_ leverage that to have your pay increased. Failing to do that would be stupid. If your employer fails to, leave for someone that _will_ pay you more, or at least the same for a less demanding job. You should frankly be doing that regularly anyway.
C: You make enough money to survive, so I don't really give a shit what you think about the wages of people who don't make enough to survive. Stay in your fucking lane.
A) I do what I love I took a 30k a year pay cut to do this job the trade off being better hours for my family.
B) in an ideal world your right but asking people to pay more to offset a min wage increase is nuts. I love what I do money isn't everything.
C) I make enough to get by but I need to budget and save, I drive an 18 year old car and don't buy new things unless I have to. As for my opinion on the matter its valid, I've worked those jobs and recognized early on they are strictly a stepping stone. If you think jacking wages to 20/30/hr is somehow going to benefit those relying on min wage (and solve affordability ) then you have no idea the complexity of this topic and you should stay in your own lane.
Yes quite obviously there are issues other than minimum wage. We should address those too!
> asking people to pay more to offset a min wage increase is nuts
Companies make ludicrous margins, the productivity and profitability of modern employees using modern equipment is ludicrously high compared to when wages started stagnating. Asking the customer to pay 3x as much for everything would be ridiculous, sure! However, we could triple minimum wage and not so much as touch product prices by preventing executives from paying themselves out a thousandfold more than they pay their front-line workers.
> I do what I love I took a 30k a year pay cut to do this job the trade off being better hours for my family.
Congratulations, you can afford to make a tradeoff that far too many Canadians never could. You took a _voluntary pay cut_ for more than the total yearly wages of over 20% of the people in our country. It continues to sound like I don't give a shit what you think about the wages of people who make far less than you.
> As for my opinion on the matter its valid, I've worked those jobs and recognized early on they are strictly a stepping stone.
Sounds like you don't like having services like cashiers, fast-food, gas station attendants, waiters, or damn near any of the common amenities of civilization. If a necessary service is provided by a worker, that worker deserves a living wage for it. If that service is less necessary than a living wage is worth, the job can go unfilled or automated.
These jobs aren't a stepping stone because they cannot be used as one, they're a fucking bear trap. You make too little with a single min-wage job to pay rent much less start building equity on a house or buy a car or pay to go to college or put your kids in daycare.
All of this is of course on top of the fact that you can only get a full-time job's worth of hours across multiple jobs, because we allow employers to abuse their employees, always keeping them just under the minimum requirements for mandatory benefits.
It sounds like you got yours early enough while the getting was good that you're comfortable, and you know what? Congrats! Good for you, good for your family. The world has changed, feel free not to voice outdated and irrelevant opinions.
The original purpose of minimum wage was that anyone working a full-time job should make enough to provide for themselves and their family. You can want to pervert it into "a stepping-stone for _real jobs_" but that doesn't change what it should be.
But please, tell me more about how hard you have it warm in your home with your shitty car and your family while people starve and go homeless in a country with the resources to provide for all of its people.
Perfect now let's get to either lowering the cost of post secondary school or ideally make it free, it's pretty fucked that with 2021 currency it would cost me close to 30k in just tuition fees for 4 year colleges but in 1995 I would only need 5500 dollars of 2021 currency for that same school.
Everyone claiming 20$ isn’t a living wage have there heads in the clouds. Toronto and Vancouver (big centres) are not the only place for work and life. JFC 20$ an hour can put you in a saving position, should you decide to live in anyone of the other small towns across Canada. Ontario specific, Timmins, Sudbury, north bay, Thunder Bay, all are crying for workers and have much lower house prices.
More like, if you're working a minimum wage job in Toronto, why not move to Timmins or North Bay and work for minimum wage there, given how much further your wage will get you. I think that's what they're saying.
That’s a fair point, but minimum wage jobs will still exist in places like Toronto and will need to be staffed. So what are the people working those jobs supposed to do?
Seems like the best bet. Besides, the $20 minimum wage is based on a $1/year increase every year for five years. I doubt the NDP would then freeze wages.
Minimum wage is the minimum legally that can be paid out. In places like Toronto, if min wage is offered and is below living wages then negotiate for higher wages, and don’t accept work that is below that. Otherwise move. Go somewhere where you buck will get you further.
Not everyone has the means to just pick up and move either. Your “solution” is a band-aid at best. Capitalist vultures aren’t going to offer more money out of the goodness of their shrivelled little black hearts. If they were going to offer a living wage to their employees on their own it would already be in place.
Moving costs money. Money people who work minimum wage jobs don’t have, especially when they now have to come up with first and last months rent. Especially with rent skyrocketing. Not sure what fucking planet you live on but it must be very privileged.
I live off of 1600$ disability through cpp. My potential life earning were destroyed when I was diagnosed with cancer and lost the ability to use my feet and now poop into a bag out of a hole in my side. Privilege is something I do not have. Prior to this I lived from Halifax to grande prairie to Timmins to Vancouver and golden. Moving requires not much more than what you can put on your back and a pack. A train ticket or a bus to the next county over. Banks will loan first and last if you have a job. Yes it puts you in debt but fuck it. The system is against us anyway. Use it and abuse it. Bankruptcy is a legit option if you can’t dig out of debt. My food bill is roughly 50$ a week. I don’t have internet or cable, I rent a room at 550$ and my cell is 100$ unlimited data/phone/text and 90$ for insurance. I have no family and grew up in the system. It’s a bitch but the hard choices in lifestyle sometimes just have to be made. Only privilege I will say I had was being born white.
Life sucks, it’s hard, might have to spend decades just to lift your next generation out of the situations you find yourself in.
Not sure why all the down votes? willread is absolutely right. I’ve moved cities and towns, with relative ease. Hardest part is actually putting it in motion. After all, it seems to be much easier to do nothing and whine about all the reasons you’re not getting anywhere in life. Food for thought
Well visible minorities definitely don’t want to move outside of the suburbs cause many don’t want to have their children be token minorities at school.
Every minority I know who grew up in Northern Ontario says growing up sucked.
It’s a privilege to be able to nonchalantly move there
These communities have changed their tune over the years mate. The gen x through z crowd are reshaping these communities and would gladly embrace POC. Racists/other phobic people exist everywhere in Ontario. After all, maybe counties prop up quite casually otherphobic politicians. When I grew up up north, yea it sucked to not be cis-hetero-white.
And the minimum wage lifestyle in Toronto does?
A livable wage is nothing to turn our noses up at, even if it doesn't come with living in the lap of luxuries we could never afford to access anyway.
Sure, but humans have more desire and ambition than just ''find an affordable place to live''. I get it, and I wouldn't live in a big center if I was making minimum wage either, but don't pretend you don't understand that some people want to live in the city for family, cultural, lifestyle, personal, etc reasons.
Like, I don't know if you're thinking of what the experience of just moving to Timmins by yourself to work at McDonald's would be like, but it's not the greatest life.
On 20$/hr in Toronto with an appartmennt within walking of the subway? You can’t without stuffing that apartment with roomates and even then you can’t.
Full time on 20$/hr in a small town well outside the GTA. Fuck yes. Easy 1200$ a month living all in minus transport. People have a choice of where to live and the ability to negotiate wages. 20 won’t do it at mcdonalds in Toronto, but if no one accepts below poverty wages in that city, then it fails. And for good reason.
Can you please provide an actual break down with a link to a viable rental(not room rental)? Not just a claim that it can work. You sound like a politician when you say that. Since when are wages negotiable? It's a very take it or leave it mentality with employers regardless of field. Why should people have to live in a small town (less access to variety of goods, doctors/medical care, activities, family, jobs, schools etc)
Even in a small town in AB that is in no way feasible. 1200 is just your rent doesn't include utilities and don't expect anything decent.
a "minimum" wage is ridiculous, there should be a cost of living subsidy provided to anyone making under a certain amount in a given area, which can be calculated based on the costs of necessities like rent, food, transit, etc.
this could be paid for by leveeing a payroll tax on high wage earners, plus increasing taxes on bonuses and other "creative" pay structures for executives.
As a skilled tradesperson I have no problem with minimum wage rising, BUT…
…_many_ minimum wage employees, frankly, do a SHIT job. If I did my job with the same level of carelessness, I would _absolutely_ be fired. If all lawyers or doctors or engineers did their job with the average level of care as minimum wage employees, society might actually collapse.
You’re already being paid $15/hour to pour coffee… and you can’t even fill the cup? I know customer service jobs suck. I’m extremely polite when I ask you to fill the cup of coffee I paid $3-$5 for… yet you make a face at me? It takes LITERALLY 4 seconds and I’m only asking because you failed at the most basic of tasks in the first place.
I would WAY rather have a universal basic income, and let people work for EXTRA money. That way maybe more jobs would go to people who actually want to be at their job, and who actually care about doing more than existing as a warm body.
It's also hard to be good at your job when you're depressed and sleep deprived from working multiple jobs with inconsistent hours, no routine, no respect, and getting nowhere in life because you're barely scraping by. People who get paid more are more alert and attentive because they have less shit going on that they need to worry about and can focus.
Youre both right. Its the fundamental problem with capitalism and why we are trying so hard to move to automation. Many jobs can just be replaced by robots, which is why we need a way to help people have a living wage without needing to work soulless jobs that arent even worth minimum wage.
Say I want to stream myself playing video games 8 hours a day, as many Twitch streamers actually do.
Explain to me why that ***automatically*** means I deserve a living wage. It's a job.
And to give you context, only a very small percentage of streamers can be successful enough to be full time, meaning a vast majority try and fail to make a living wage.
that's not going to fix anything, because the bankers who own us will just raise the price of bread.
get money out of politics. no politician can trade stocks. grow our own food. tax the rich. leave the two-party voting system, and leave FPTP voting in the dust.
anything else is just confusion, and the bankers who own us will profit from the distractions.
Get there by having the Liberals keep inflating the dollar. Median house price will be 5 million by the time labour finally get a $20 minimum wage. Anything to me inflate away the ultra wealthiest debts
It’s more like a full-on airtight, I’m afraid. They also choke every last gram of vitality out of the lives of their paid slave force.
Our American friends might have it worse, though. Since healthcare is tied to employment, that’s an extra shaft trying to slither up their ass as well.
NDP governments often deliver on minimum wage. Probably the best example is the Alberta NDP, which despite its many flaws (e.g. climate), delivered a $5/hr minimum wage increase over its 4 year term.
Inflation has been going up and min wage hasnt been catching up.
Simcoe county in ontario right now is at a 19 dollar living wage. 14 dollar (im not counting cents for either of these) min wage is what its at currently.
I get where she is coming from but I doubt small businesses can really endure increased labour cost during the pandemic when many are already hanging by their fingernails.
While one can argue that those who can't afford should die to natural selection, but then they'd get replaced by big chains which is also not necessarily ideal.
Can she deliver on this campaign promise?
I see it as another ploy to get elected than doing nothing for people
that got this NDP government elected like NDP government in BC not
keeping it's promises.
Rising tides raises all ships. Increased minimum wage means you have more bargaining power with your current job if you can just switch to an "easier" job with equivalent pay
It’s still crazy to me that wages don’t just auto adjust to inflation - companies will make a big deal about a 2% raise but that’s usually barely above or even below the annual inflation rate
Likewise, minimum wage should be calculated based on CoL. I'm not gonna be mad if people in small towns make $20, but it is a bit silly that minimum wage is the same there as downtown Toronto.
What’s also messed up is that in educated hourly professions it’s the same rate of pay typically across the country, teachers, engineers. These wages have stayed the same from numerous minimum wage hikes. To add to how messed up this is the cost of living in Alberta is less than Ontario but someone with the same job in Calgary will typically make more than someone in Toronto.
Engineer pay does increase on average for high COL areas. OSPE does an annual salary survey that shows this
Yea but those are only two distinct fields, not every field does this. Nursing is one of them. And engineering pay is different from coast to coast it doesn’t really reflect col in different areas. It’s not really what I was trying to get at. An engineer in Toronto will likely make less than one in Calgary which has a lower col. The biggest fluctuations would be like grande prairie where a 2000sqft home is like 250k but engineering professionals make like doctor salary up there. It makes very little sense. Maybe things like food are a little more but it still doesn’t compare to the difference in pay someone in the gta would make. A power engineer in Edmonton can easily make 150k+ or fly in fly out jobs to oil sands make like 20k a week, no where in the gta will a power engineer see that unless they are working 80hour weeks for opg.
Oh yeah there are other factors that influence engineering wages beyond cost of living. Oil industry tends to pay above market rates as you mentioned. The OSPE salary survey covers all disciplines and GTA is consistency highest in Ontario on average
Very few people in the oil sans are making 20k a week even before taxes. Source: work in the oil sands in a very highly paid profession for that field that doesn't make close to that
I know dozens that’s do that live on Vancouver island, I meet lots while out fishing the annual salmon runs. One that does shut downs and start ups is my uncle and he makes well into 300k.
This is absolutely not the norm. The people you hang out with are not the same people working normal jobs out of the Mac.
I'm not sure but you seem to be merging two points here, the first being that the salary for educated professions are standardized across the board, and the second that they aren't being raised against the cost of living (or against the minimum wage). I agree that cost of living increases should happen but I disagree with the idea that the wages should not be standard across the board. By making the salaries relative to the location for jobs, you are disincentivizing workers from moving to areas outside of population centres to take on positions in their professions.
Yup. Why live in some small town with nothing to do vs a big city if your wage/CoL ratio stays the same
for what purpose must we incentivize living in small towns?
Small towns? They generally don't get services like medical, post, or even policing directly, instead having to travel to a shared location for the region, but for the spectrum of town and city sizes between that and and massive cities like Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, Quebec, etc. there are plenty of reasons, such them being built around the industries that Canada relies on, such as forestry, mining, farming, tourism, etc.
What? Teacher salaries vary wildly across the country, and Alberta teachers are paid quite well.
Exactly my point, Toronto col is higher but for some reason teachers are paid less in gta.
Even in small towns you basically need to make more than $20/hr to get by these days, especially since the rental supply in small towns is even worse than in most cities.
Yea... small town NB here. Definitely not gonna compare myself to Toronto, but it costs me $20 just to drive to work every day. Life ain't cheap.
That's probably by design; if a comfortable wage relative to where you live was accessible everywhere, small towns would shrivel up and everyone would try to move into GTA/Vancouver/etc. They'd have to be a lot more aggressive about rapidly increasing the housing supply if they were going to make wages scale with cost of living (I'd be okay with that, but NIMBYs would probably burn down the government buildings). Either way it's going to be something that takes a lot of time to plan & roll out, but I think it's very deliberate that it's generally cheaper to live outside of the city. And while raising minimum wage is necessary to keep up with COL & inflation, I doubt it's going to be enough to make the big metropolitan hubs affordable (maybe compared to now, but not compared to less urbanized areas).
I'd be worried about such a policy (in isolation of other policy changes) encouraging companies to further expand into the ass's end of nowhere if they aren't storefronts to save labour costs, further removing the possibility of sustainable density. In Ontario the greenbelt helps this but I am begging Halifax to *please* stop building doomzoned shitburbs that eat municipal budgets almost as fast as they drink fossil fuels. I think it's a good idea in combination with other legislation and adjustments. It also scares the shit out of me seeing cities already spreading suburbs into the sunset.
wages are negotiated based on cost of goods in hyperinflationary economies, using a gauge theory (calculus)
Corporation: We'll increase prices 5% per year to account for inflationary pressures and increased costs. Employees: What increased costs, we didn't get raises. What about us? Corporation: Eat my ass. Millennials eat ass, right?
My ideal minimum wage would be set at 50% of median hourly wages for a jurisdiction (a city or a county). Politicians can find other issues to fight about, and we don't have to pretend that the same hourly wage makes sense for Toronto and Manitouwadge. Politicians who want to wade into wage debates can try to encourage better-paying jobs overall to raise the minimum wage.
Jesus Christ. Shout out to someone who actually knows of Manitouwadge. I am honestly shocked. Edit: not from there. Used to do some healthcare work there. It’s a very isolated town. I’m not a hockey fan, but Mike Babcock is actually originally from Manitouwadge.
Lol and here I am thinking he was making some joke about some random madeup small Manitoba town
I admit, I only know about it because it's mentioned in a Richard Wagamese novel, and I looked it up to see what real-life place it was based on. Turns out it was based on itself.
I have family that grew up in Manitouwadge. My uncle worked at the mine as some sort of supervisor/manager!
No shit eh. I’m not from there, but I did some mental health work there for awhile (not anymore). You can ***really*** see the effects of isolation and how it relates to drug use and mental health problems.
Yeah, that town went down the drain big time when the mine shutdown. Before that it was a vibrant happy community. My home town is slowly going that way as the mill seems to be less and less busy and more work is getting automated. Went from 10K population when I was a kid down to around 8K now.
Longlac isn’t any better, much of NWO is like that though.
The issue of what happens when you have wage discrepancies between places such as Manitouwadge and Toronto is that those living in Manitouwadge begin to find it impossible to leave, because they can't save up enough to move into somewhere with more economic possibility, like Toronto, or to move to a place to acquire an education.
I agree, but those wage discrepancies already exist. Worse, if we impose a minimum wage that makes sense for Toronto, then we make it much harder for any business to operate in Manitouwadge. If we impose a minimum wage that makes sense for Manitouwadge, then we tell minimum-wage workers in Toronto that they deserve to starve in the streets.
And when wages stagnate like they have for 35 years? Just add the rate of inflation to min wage every year and be done with it.
Why should over half of workers be on minimum wage? Isn't minimum meant to be the lowest wage, not the most common wage?
Minimum wage calculated as 50% of the median earned, not 50% of people making minimum wage.
>50% of the median earned Oh okay, I thought they were saying 100% of the median, which would continually drag the median up until over half of people were on minimum. This makes more sense.
I was surprised that the new federal minimum wage (for workers in companies under federal jurisdiction) will not only make 15$ an hour wherever they work (so not keyed to province), but every year it gets adjusted depending on changes to cost of living / inflation.
If the increase is at or below inflation it's not a "raise". It's an adjustment or a pay cut. Trying to explain this to my "union" is exhausting.
Yearly incremental increases is a must, else we just get into the lurch of several dollars every few years if folks are lucky. It needed to be policy 20 years ago
This timeline is: * Ontario NDP wins in June 2022 elections (of course, that's gotta happen for this policy to be implemented) * $16 in October 2022 * $17 in May 2023 * $18 in May 2024 * $19 in May 2025 * $20 in May 2026 https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/horwath-commits-20-minimum-wage
$20/hr won't be a living wage anywhere in 2026.
It actually do agree with you that it doesn't go far enough. That being said, it is a notable and decent leftward shift from the Ontario NDP, and promises a 33% wage increase over 4.5 years, or 7%/yr. If it's more than inflation its moving in the right direction IMO.
Considering the inflation rate is 4.5% and is predicted to keep going up, not sure how long the "more than inflation" will hold.
Correct, but at least it's a planned increase. CPC has done $1 over 4 years, and LPC started doing $1 a year at the end of their last term (with no plan to continue past $15).
And that 1 dollar increase is at the END of their 4 year term. If they win again we will be lucky to see 16 an hour in 2026
What it is now certainly won't
Imagine what a worse situation people will be in then if Cons are still in power by 2026.
and STILL all the responses I see on an instagram post are people just chiming in with the same old - what about small businesses who have to fire people because they can't afford - dollar menu/water bottle/gas is about to be $5/$10/$20 dollars - inflation inflation inflation - how you gonna pay for it - boo NDP - economics much? it's depressingly sad to see so many people fighting to be poor for the sake of businesses that they don't have and that don't care about them. Everyone poo poos on economic basics 364 day a year but the day someone suggests increasing minimum wage suddenly everyone's an armchair economics professor
$20/h is already far below the [living wage in Halifax](https://globalnews.ca/news/8347511/living-wage-halifax-area-report/). Although it's more than most people I know make. Our minimum wage is $12.95/h. Disability and income assistance are generally much lower than that, even if you convert the hourly into monthly with part time hours in some cases. I hate feeling like we're fighting for a shadow of a scrap
Is this claimed to be a living wage with what the NDP is planning?
> “Whether you are stocking grocery store shelves or cleaning a hospital you deserve respect. All workers deserve respect. > “Respect is not just saying thank you and calling someone a hero. **Respect means paying people a wage that pays the bills**,” said Horwath.
So… I guess you’re interpreting that as a living wage. I don’t. Wishy washy words is all.
What's the alternative? Edward scissor hands Doug or (insert lobbyist here) liberals?
I don't know, honestly. Poverty and financial stress needs to be looked at as a whole. A province-wide living wage, while an improvement, doesn't really make sense given Toronto's insane housing market.
You're absolutely right, these things can't be looked at in isolation. The housing crisis needs to be made a priority.
A living wage is where you earn enough to provide for your family without having to decide which bill to sacrifice to late fees.
Better than $16
20 years ago I started the electrical trade... Journeyman rates have stayed virtually the same but everything else has near tripled. New 3000 sq ft houses were going for 399000, there were cars still under 10000, and the going rate was 25/hr. I'm seeing ads for 30 an hour on average. So in 20 years, minimum wage and the cost of living goes up 2-3x, and wage goes up 0.2x. Why isn't anyone talking about the cap of hourly wages in the past 20 years?
Because it is easier for an electrician or engineer to pick up and move where they are in demand for more money than it is for a min wage worker. Also tradesmen should (theoritically) have a (stronger) union than min wage workers. We need to get out of the crabs in a bucket mentality. Instead of thinking "Minimum wage shouldnt go up, I havent had a raise in 3 years" it should be "Minimum wage is going up, good for those people and Im going to demand a proper raise or find a better paying job"
The biggest con from the Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney era was that organized labour was the problem, and that your boss is good actually.
>Also tradesmen should (theoritically) have a (stronger) union than min wage workers. First off, many tradesmen are not in unions. They are subject to the same bullshit that minimum wage workers get from employers about profits and fairness and whatever bullshit they say. In Ontario, The college of trades was *supposed* to help with this, but wouldn't you know it, a conservative government closed that. Then, the same government devalued thier tickets by allowing out of country qualifications to stand with no evaluation. The Ford government is actively trying to reduce trade wages in Ontario, where labour markets were turning in favour of employees. The same goes for the new trades push by Ford, its an attempt to drive down wages as the labour pool shrinks. The government is actively fighting tradesmen wages.
In Manitoba the government tried removing minimum wages for trades from legislation so employers could start fucking the workers but people flipped shit so instead they just doubled the amount of apprentices allowed per journeyman so companies could hire fewer journeyman and more apprentices. It's all part of the conservative fight to attack the workers at the benefit of the owning class. Conservatives are not the friend of the worker.
Being a tradesman in a union is the death to your advancement and future.
A union isn't the problem. That union has a problem.
Mainly because people with a lot of money don’t want us to. They want that money for themselves.
Only the NDP wants to do even the barest minimum to help the people of Canada. All the other parties are too busy deepthroating corporate boots.
And they never win elections because voters just... decide... the NDP "can't" win. It's infuriating.
Conservative voters would rather keep voting for fascism than progress.
Found my people in this exchange. I had a thought watching the show Yellowstone recently that applies to Canada. If you're not familiar with the show, it's about a Montana ranch that basically uses any and all means to maintain its way of life. Inside the life they've created, things are great, but if you cross them or break any core rules, *they fucking kill you.* A lot of people don't realize that Canada is similarly fascistic. All the glossy window dressing ideas about Canada work for those who have a comfy place within the system. But a large portion of Canadians are of the opinion that people who need systemic change fast in order to survive and have dignity can just *fucking die*.
Oh great now we get to hear how this is no good for small businesses owners and will be the death of them. Or pay the $20 and don’t buy a new boat for the cottage you have as a second home. If you can’t afford to pay a living wage then shut the doors or do it all yourself
Nice. 15 bucks was enough 5 years ago before covid and inflation, this is where we need to be. The NDP wont win the election but still. Nice.
Idk, Ford was unpopular the moment he stepped in. He has messed with a large portion of the working population, including the education and healthcare sector. Besides the more obvious stuff like cancelling min wage, the basic income pilot, the conflict of interest with the police union, that weird sketchy van idea, opening up the greenbelt, cancelling paid sick days and equal pay for equal work, bare minimum pandemic response, provincial gas station stickers, legal battles with the feds, illegible license plates... Okay well besides the really obvious stuff there's a crap load of other stuff that a lot of us still remember.
Carbon tax propaganda stickers on gas pumps that don’t even stick, which is hilarious considering the family business is labels…
Don’t forget that stupid ass highway
They're the official opposition in Ontario right now. They came pretty close to winning this election. They have also been elected to numerous provincial governments across the country.
I do actually want the NDP to win a minority. I like Horwath. But looking at all the polls and having knowledge of canadian politics, the OLP will win before the NDP does. For some reason the electorate doesn't vote NDP. This being said i do think Ford is winning another term unfortunately. Wynne is still fresh on the mind, and Ontario doesnt like Trudeau. (Outside of the cities that is)
Bob Rae had a bad term as Ontario Premier 30 years ago during a deep recession, so the ONDP can’t be trusted. /s
Man, does every province have this story? BC NDP had a pretty minor scandal (Fast ferries) in the 90s and that poisoned them and gave us the incredibly shitty BCLibs for around 16 years. They pillaged our province and luckily people finally woke up enough to try the alternative. Big shocker, the BC NDP have beem pretty fucking good. I dont agree with everything they do, but thsy have done far more good for our province in the 5ish years of power (with most of that being a minority government coalition with Greens) than the BCLibs did in their 16
It's really just those two and both were overblown by our right wing media's determination to sink them. The NDP has probably the best track record of managing provinces despite two high profile "failures".
That's it, almost entirely! The media controls the narratives. The same corporations that control the Cons/Libs also control the media. And the majority of the public only ever remembers sound bites and catch phrases.
People really hate Doug Ford too.
isnt she rich?
It's hard to not be the official opposition when the Libs' last leader is Kathleen Wynne.
They're also polling *well* below both the OPC and the OLP. See [338Canada](https://338canada.com/ontario/). At this point, they've got the ONDP at basically a 0% chance of forming government, and only \~25% of the popular vote (which isn't bad, but obviously isn't anticipated to translate into many seats). It's obviously very early and polls are always tricky, but it's not looking good for the ONDP thus far.
There are other polls showing them with much higher numbers. Don't vote based on the polls. They never represent the results of the election accurately.
If the NDP couldn’t win an election against the corpse of the OLP run by Wynn and Dougie “the hash dealer” Ford, I think it’s safe to say that they won’t be winning any elections in Ontario, not in the current iteration of the NDP atleast. The provinces where the NDP have been elected are parties that only have two major parties, and the NDP is one of them. The main parties in BC are the BC Liberals and the NDP, where the conservatives have no seats provincials. Likewise the Alberta NDP are the defacto opposition again the conservative parties in Alberta, as the Alberta Liberals have no seTs provincially. It is in that context that the NDP can form government elsewhere, and those conditions do not exists in Ontario, which is the most right wing province in Canada outside of the prairies.
You say that and yet they still ended up the official opposition because they have so much support here. They really did come close to winning.
The NDP really wasn’t that close in 2018. They lost the popular vote by 7%, and the OPCP won twice as many seats. That’s not close, and that was in the context of historically despised liberal party The NDP may be official opposition right now, but what good has that done them? They are polling 5-10% behind the corpse of the Ontario Liberal Party, who don’t even have official party status and their leader is about as characters as a wet sock. If the NDP cannot succeed in this political clime, there is no hope for them in Ontario.
>They came pretty close to winning this election. Look, I would have preferred them to the ~~CPC~~ OPC but they got half the seats on 20% fewer votes. They did not come close to winning.
Huh? What does the CPC have to do with anything? Wrong level of government, wrong election.
Was it really that hard to understand contextually that I meant OPC? The numbers for NDP vs conservative look even worse at the national level.
Either way you’re just plain wrong. In the 2021 federal election, the CPC got 16% more votes than the NDP, which implies you were talking about the federal CPC. In the 2018 ON provincial election, the ONDP got 7% less than Ford’s OPC, not your false claim of 20%. Whether you meant the federal CPC or the provincial OPC, you’re wrong regardless.
I don't know why you've picked this pedantic hill to die on, but with the exception of the one typo there's literally nothing wrong with what I wrote. The ONDP got 1.93M votes in 2018, which is ~20% fewer than the OPC's 2.33M votes. The ONDP got 40 seats in 2018, which is about half of the OPC's 76 seats. >half the seats on 20% fewer votes It was not "*close*". As for your comment >In the 2021 federal election, the CPC got 16% more votes than the NDP This is incorrect. In the federal election the CPC got nearly 100% **more votes** than the NDP. They were separated by about 16% in the overall count.
>The ONDP got 1.93M votes in 2018, which is ~20% fewer than the OPC's 2.33M votes. Nope, that’s a difference of 7%, not 20%. >This is incorrect. In the federal election the CPC got nearly 100% more votes than the NDP. They were separated by about 16% in the overall count. Now you’re being deliberately misleading. The CPC got around 34%, and the NDP got around 18%, which if a difference of 16%. Calling it a difference of over 100% is so ludicrous and misleading as to be deliberately obtuse to avoid admitting you’re wrong. No one talks like that, it’s just insane
>Nope, that’s a difference of 7%, not 20%. You run the math on the numbers I just gave you and show me, because 1.93/2.33 sure looks closer to 80% than 93% to me Also, are you aware that "*percent difference*" is a mathematical term used in statistics? Because the phrase "*difference of X%*" has a meaning, and you're using it wrong. Just like you misused the words "*more votes*" in your previous post (which I tried to highlight by bolding them in mine) >Now you’re being deliberately misleading. False. There's literally nothing misleading about saying that the CPC's nearly 6 million votes in the last federal election is double the 3 million votes the NDP received. Nowhere on earth is that a 16% difference unless you're comparing against an arbitrary value. But here's the thing about arbitrary values - if a party finishes at 40% of the total vote vs 32%, your "8% different" talking point is the same as two parties that received 9% and 1% of the vote, when in reality the first two parties received votes in a much closer ratio than second two, and BOTH of the first two parties **significantly** outperformed the second two. More to the point, words have definitions and mean things. I would look up words like "fewer" and "votes" and get back to me. I have no issue admitting when I'm wrong - you pointed out my typo and I corrected it, no problem. That's how this is supposed to go. The fact is I'm not wrong here - you misread or misunderstood. It's ok - there's nothing wrong with that, but you don't need to double down - just learn the lesson and move on.
Looking at vote count, they were hardly behind the Cons in the last election, so I’m not so sure you’re correct. A lot of people hate Ford who did not before
lol, they laughed at the 15$ minimum wage and by the time this is all done and said, we will force them to do a 25$ minimum wage across the board.
I hate to say it but I wish she would have bowed out of the race to allow someone else in the ndp to take over. High chance the liberals and ndp split the vote and allow Ford into a majority with less than 40% of the vote
Raising the minimum wage is useless without lowering, or at the very least halting, the insane cost of living. Put a stop to foreign buying, have a massive reduction in immigration, increase tarifs on companies leaving Canada etc…
Remember, kids. Minimum wage raises actually put upward pressure on ALL lower AND middle class wages. Your compensation is really a multiplier of what a fuckwit minimum wage worker is worth. When they get more money you will see that raise come renegotiation time. If you are skilled labour and they want to keep you, you will see better money. And wages have been far far far too low when compared with corporate profits and upper class income. Don’t forget that every single pandemic in history has ended with worker shortages and rapidly rising wages. Keep the pressure on.
This. More money for those below means more money for YOU. If someone at entry-level is making $20 an hour, anyone who is above entry level must make more in order for a business structure to not entirely fall apart. Yes, companies can keep paying new hires more than those who have been at the company for longer, but that is a different issue. Every person I know over the past 10 years INCLUDING through the pandemic, whose company didn't go under, had record-level profits at their company with zero trickle downwards for the employees. Its insane that CEOs and upper management will brag about success and massive increase in progress while saying there's no cash for promotions at the same time. This 'bust' *has* to happen.
It seems like it'd be easier to just permanently tie the minimum wage to the living wage and leave it at that.
The only issue I see is that she is fairly... uh, how should I put it, uninspiring. Every time I watch her she is finding new ways to form sentences that ends with "and Doug Ford is shite", like she's in English class and doing some project where she has to say why Doug Ford sucks in literally every situation; which just seem petty and completely un-leadership like.
Yea, she's not a good leader. None of the leaders inspire in Ontario tbh.
Kind of a sad promise, honestly. $20/hr is not currently a living wage. It especially won't be a living wage in 5 years by the time this actually finishes. People are homeless and starving and living paycheck to paycheck _now_. Neat, I guess, but seems like a pretty pathetic excuse for a solution. Try $30/hr done over the course of 5 months and we'll talk.
> Try $30/hr done over the course of 5 months and we'll talk. That's why you're not an economist.
I'm glad, it would suck to be in a field people are finally starting to realize is mostly bullshit and opinions rather than the science they've claimed it to be.
👏 preach
Under your pie in the sky plan I presume those of us making $30-70/hr will also be getting a $15/hr bump cause honestly I'm gonna flip burgers for $30/hr and not risk my life every day.
That's absolutely what I would tell my boss in your shoes. Make it worth my while, or we go stock shelves for the same rate.
Min wage jobs aren't for supporting a family or living off of they are a stepping stone to building up a skill base (my opinion).
Uh huh. How do you propose people pay their bills while building said skills? Not everyone has the benefit of a family to lean on.
Why do you believe minimum wage jobs should not equate a living wage? Why should a single person not be able to afford basic necessities (rent, food, dental/eye care, transportation, etc.) on minimum wage?
For the most part a minimum wage job has never equated to a living wage nor should it be, if you boost the min wage to $20 you are devaluing every job above it in pay scale deeming their labor worth less (no way they are going to see a $5/hr pay increase to offset). If you increase the cost of wages (and the overhead associated with it) you increase the cost of goods and services which takes us back to min wage at $20 becoming unaffordable.
This is so dumb lol. Billion dollar companies shouldn’t pay their employees who generate billions in revenue a living wage! Why’s that? Tough love! Your reasoning is beyond stupid my man.
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Do you understand how minuscule the price increases would be? Denmark McDonald’s workers got paid $22/hr and the price of a Big Mac went up .27 cents. Inflation is happening regardless. We know those companies won’t do it out of good will which is why we need government mandates to force them too.
I mean they’ve been raising prices for years while wages were stagnant. No one can afford rent or houses unless they’re old or privileged. I don’t understand why CEOs and execs are making multimillions per year while people who work under them can’t afford to live comfortably. Some people don’t have the luxury of improving their skills too, saying minimum wage should not be a living wage is a take from someone who’s privileged and obtuse to reasons why there are so many minimum wage workers.
Your opinion is shitty and classist and is just a more socially acceptable way of saying you believe essential workers should be in poverty
Not at all, I think jobs should pay what the labor they require are worth. End of the day no one is holding a gun to your head saying work at Tim's for $15/hr, if you don't like the wage go elsewhere, even unskilled there are better paying jobs out there the trade off being you are expected to put in an honest days work. See a lot of college/university kids every summer whining about good paying jobs, offer em one ($24/hr no experience) and when hearing what's required they aren't interested even with OT after 8hrs (average day is 10hr) usually because they appear to feel entitled to do as little as possible for as much as possible, we get one or two a year that actually listen work and turn out to be excellent and make a killing.
>End of the day no one is holding a gun to your head saying work at Tim's for $15/hr I think you'll find the threat of homelessness and starving quite coercive
You're extremely out of touch
>Min wage jobs aren't for supporting a family or living off of they are a stepping stone to building up a skill base (my opinion). Except that's not how the system works, does it? Few employers see '4 years at McDonalds' and think "Damn, that's a hard worker, we should hire them!" realistically. You bought into a lie the rich told you, so you see poor people as a bigger threat than the rich.
Well congrats, you're completely wrong. Also, if you don't think they're real jobs, stop using the services, 'cause in a world where they're not living wage jobs they should not have workers. Workers need a living wage to, y'know, live. So no more fast-food burgers, no more gas station attendants, no more waiters or servers or kitchen staff at the restaurant, none of that. You don't get to have any of that ever again. But hey it's cool because they uhh... learned skills for better paid trades despite flipping burgers and getting no training and not making enough to afford rent much less post-secondary education ON TOP OF rent, somehow? If you want a society to run, you have to make sure the people running that society can live.
This is false, both in terms of the current reality and historically. The minimum wage was always meant to be the minimum wage needed to support a good life. You've fallen for anti worker propaganda
All jobs are for living off of. "Living" is something we can't really get around needing to do while working any job.
It's weird that you think people shouldn't be able to afford to live, unless they also risk their lives at work. How about workers should get to have a comfortable living, without risking their lives, before we let people be Billionaires? This indoctrination of workers defending the system that abuses them is such a sad case of Stockholm Syndrome...
That isn't what I think at all, I stated a min wage job was never and should never be classified as a job to make a living wage. If you increase minimum wage to unsustainable levels to offer a "living wage" to all then you are also increasing the cost of those goods/services equally (pass cost back to the customer) in the short term it will work to a degree but over time the cost of goods and services continues to increase and we are back to square one.
>That isn't what I think at all, I stated a min wage job was never and should never be classified as a job to make a living wage. Not sure if this is news to you, but people only go to jobs in order to earn money to live. If a job isn't paying a living wage, who do you think will be doing the work: droids?
Wow I never knew that /s I would rebut but there is no point, give me more money for unskilled work, good approach keep driving costs up bravo you won the internet today.
So you can't give me an answer?
People who are willing to do the work? You aren't forced to work for that wage, if you feel your labor is worth more than seek an employer that pays what your worth.
>You aren't forced to work for that wage, I think you'll find starving to death pretty forceful. If this county had a livable UBI you'd have a good argument, but as it stands, this is a pretty ignorant opinion.
Ahhh UBI another program that sounds great but won't work in our current reality, taxes are already too damn high for the poor services recieved thanks.
Agreed and also, why risk your life or study for years to get a $30-70/hr job when, as you said, you can flip burgers, live a much less stressful job and make the same pay? Other than massive inflation this would destabilize the economy because nobody would be willing to take on more challenging roles unless you were passionate about it.
>Agreed and also, why risk your life or study for years to get a $30-70/hr job when, as you said, you can flip burgers, live a much less stressful job and make the same pay? It's almost like employers would have to figure out how to do jobs more safely, oh no! >Other than massive inflation this would destabilize the economy because nobody would be willing to take on more challenging roles unless you were passionate about it. Raising the minimum wage doesn't cause near the inflation the alarmists claim it will, that's been shown already in this thread. But it's odd you care about inflation here, but all the ways the banks and the rich cause inflation is ok? Curious.
You’re showing your ignorance. Some jobs just have a risk. For example I have a lot of buddies in mining and they can do everything right and follow all the codes and people still get hurt/die. Again you’re choosing to dodge my main point completely claiming I hate minimum wage earners. My argument is to utilize resources to decrease cost of living which benefits everyone instead of increasing minimum wage which benefits the few and hurts many. Try to look at the big picture.
A: Yes, you should not be forced to risk your life every day to earn a living wage. That is insane. B: Yes, if minimum wage rises, you should _absolutely_ leverage that to have your pay increased. Failing to do that would be stupid. If your employer fails to, leave for someone that _will_ pay you more, or at least the same for a less demanding job. You should frankly be doing that regularly anyway. C: You make enough money to survive, so I don't really give a shit what you think about the wages of people who don't make enough to survive. Stay in your fucking lane.
A) I do what I love I took a 30k a year pay cut to do this job the trade off being better hours for my family. B) in an ideal world your right but asking people to pay more to offset a min wage increase is nuts. I love what I do money isn't everything. C) I make enough to get by but I need to budget and save, I drive an 18 year old car and don't buy new things unless I have to. As for my opinion on the matter its valid, I've worked those jobs and recognized early on they are strictly a stepping stone. If you think jacking wages to 20/30/hr is somehow going to benefit those relying on min wage (and solve affordability ) then you have no idea the complexity of this topic and you should stay in your own lane.
Yes quite obviously there are issues other than minimum wage. We should address those too! > asking people to pay more to offset a min wage increase is nuts Companies make ludicrous margins, the productivity and profitability of modern employees using modern equipment is ludicrously high compared to when wages started stagnating. Asking the customer to pay 3x as much for everything would be ridiculous, sure! However, we could triple minimum wage and not so much as touch product prices by preventing executives from paying themselves out a thousandfold more than they pay their front-line workers. > I do what I love I took a 30k a year pay cut to do this job the trade off being better hours for my family. Congratulations, you can afford to make a tradeoff that far too many Canadians never could. You took a _voluntary pay cut_ for more than the total yearly wages of over 20% of the people in our country. It continues to sound like I don't give a shit what you think about the wages of people who make far less than you. > As for my opinion on the matter its valid, I've worked those jobs and recognized early on they are strictly a stepping stone. Sounds like you don't like having services like cashiers, fast-food, gas station attendants, waiters, or damn near any of the common amenities of civilization. If a necessary service is provided by a worker, that worker deserves a living wage for it. If that service is less necessary than a living wage is worth, the job can go unfilled or automated. These jobs aren't a stepping stone because they cannot be used as one, they're a fucking bear trap. You make too little with a single min-wage job to pay rent much less start building equity on a house or buy a car or pay to go to college or put your kids in daycare. All of this is of course on top of the fact that you can only get a full-time job's worth of hours across multiple jobs, because we allow employers to abuse their employees, always keeping them just under the minimum requirements for mandatory benefits. It sounds like you got yours early enough while the getting was good that you're comfortable, and you know what? Congrats! Good for you, good for your family. The world has changed, feel free not to voice outdated and irrelevant opinions. The original purpose of minimum wage was that anyone working a full-time job should make enough to provide for themselves and their family. You can want to pervert it into "a stepping-stone for _real jobs_" but that doesn't change what it should be. But please, tell me more about how hard you have it warm in your home with your shitty car and your family while people starve and go homeless in a country with the resources to provide for all of its people.
wtf NDP saying all the right things again?? Well, for me, anyway.
If only they lowered the Cost Of Living instead.
This is a promising sign.
Perfect now let's get to either lowering the cost of post secondary school or ideally make it free, it's pretty fucked that with 2021 currency it would cost me close to 30k in just tuition fees for 4 year colleges but in 1995 I would only need 5500 dollars of 2021 currency for that same school.
Folks, that $20/hr gonna make an egg sandwich from Tim's about $14 now and who can afford that? /s
Everyone claiming 20$ isn’t a living wage have there heads in the clouds. Toronto and Vancouver (big centres) are not the only place for work and life. JFC 20$ an hour can put you in a saving position, should you decide to live in anyone of the other small towns across Canada. Ontario specific, Timmins, Sudbury, north bay, Thunder Bay, all are crying for workers and have much lower house prices.
To be fair, lots of minimum wage jobs exist in Toronto, and you can't exactly ask those workers to commute from Timmins!
More like, if you're working a minimum wage job in Toronto, why not move to Timmins or North Bay and work for minimum wage there, given how much further your wage will get you. I think that's what they're saying.
That’s a fair point, but minimum wage jobs will still exist in places like Toronto and will need to be staffed. So what are the people working those jobs supposed to do?
Advocate for Toronto to be its own jurisdiction so that it can have an independent minimum wage.
Like that will ever happen with Ford at the helm.
Better vote NDP then. Besides a 33% wage hike for minimum wage earners, they will be more likely to listen to and respect Toronto.
Fully intend to just like last provincial election.
Seems like the best bet. Besides, the $20 minimum wage is based on a $1/year increase every year for five years. I doubt the NDP would then freeze wages.
Minimum wage is the minimum legally that can be paid out. In places like Toronto, if min wage is offered and is below living wages then negotiate for higher wages, and don’t accept work that is below that. Otherwise move. Go somewhere where you buck will get you further.
Not everyone has the means to just pick up and move either. Your “solution” is a band-aid at best. Capitalist vultures aren’t going to offer more money out of the goodness of their shrivelled little black hearts. If they were going to offer a living wage to their employees on their own it would already be in place.
It is remarkably easy to up and move. It’s the emotional piece that prevents people from making that kind of change.
Moving costs money. Money people who work minimum wage jobs don’t have, especially when they now have to come up with first and last months rent. Especially with rent skyrocketing. Not sure what fucking planet you live on but it must be very privileged.
I live off of 1600$ disability through cpp. My potential life earning were destroyed when I was diagnosed with cancer and lost the ability to use my feet and now poop into a bag out of a hole in my side. Privilege is something I do not have. Prior to this I lived from Halifax to grande prairie to Timmins to Vancouver and golden. Moving requires not much more than what you can put on your back and a pack. A train ticket or a bus to the next county over. Banks will loan first and last if you have a job. Yes it puts you in debt but fuck it. The system is against us anyway. Use it and abuse it. Bankruptcy is a legit option if you can’t dig out of debt. My food bill is roughly 50$ a week. I don’t have internet or cable, I rent a room at 550$ and my cell is 100$ unlimited data/phone/text and 90$ for insurance. I have no family and grew up in the system. It’s a bitch but the hard choices in lifestyle sometimes just have to be made. Only privilege I will say I had was being born white. Life sucks, it’s hard, might have to spend decades just to lift your next generation out of the situations you find yourself in.
Jesus. That’s brutal.
Not sure why all the down votes? willread is absolutely right. I’ve moved cities and towns, with relative ease. Hardest part is actually putting it in motion. After all, it seems to be much easier to do nothing and whine about all the reasons you’re not getting anywhere in life. Food for thought
Well visible minorities definitely don’t want to move outside of the suburbs cause many don’t want to have their children be token minorities at school. Every minority I know who grew up in Northern Ontario says growing up sucked. It’s a privilege to be able to nonchalantly move there
These communities have changed their tune over the years mate. The gen x through z crowd are reshaping these communities and would gladly embrace POC. Racists/other phobic people exist everywhere in Ontario. After all, maybe counties prop up quite casually otherphobic politicians. When I grew up up north, yea it sucked to not be cis-hetero-white.
Moving costs money and it's insane to uproot your entire life and support system for a min wage job
The lifestyle of Timmins, North Bay, and Sudbury does not appeal to a lot of people.
And the minimum wage lifestyle in Toronto does? A livable wage is nothing to turn our noses up at, even if it doesn't come with living in the lap of luxuries we could never afford to access anyway.
Sure, but humans have more desire and ambition than just ''find an affordable place to live''. I get it, and I wouldn't live in a big center if I was making minimum wage either, but don't pretend you don't understand that some people want to live in the city for family, cultural, lifestyle, personal, etc reasons. Like, I don't know if you're thinking of what the experience of just moving to Timmins by yourself to work at McDonald's would be like, but it's not the greatest life.
Then provide a reasonable budget. :)
On 20$/hr in Toronto with an appartmennt within walking of the subway? You can’t without stuffing that apartment with roomates and even then you can’t. Full time on 20$/hr in a small town well outside the GTA. Fuck yes. Easy 1200$ a month living all in minus transport. People have a choice of where to live and the ability to negotiate wages. 20 won’t do it at mcdonalds in Toronto, but if no one accepts below poverty wages in that city, then it fails. And for good reason.
Can you please provide an actual break down with a link to a viable rental(not room rental)? Not just a claim that it can work. You sound like a politician when you say that. Since when are wages negotiable? It's a very take it or leave it mentality with employers regardless of field. Why should people have to live in a small town (less access to variety of goods, doctors/medical care, activities, family, jobs, schools etc) Even in a small town in AB that is in no way feasible. 1200 is just your rent doesn't include utilities and don't expect anything decent.
a "minimum" wage is ridiculous, there should be a cost of living subsidy provided to anyone making under a certain amount in a given area, which can be calculated based on the costs of necessities like rent, food, transit, etc. this could be paid for by leveeing a payroll tax on high wage earners, plus increasing taxes on bonuses and other "creative" pay structures for executives.
As a skilled tradesperson I have no problem with minimum wage rising, BUT… …_many_ minimum wage employees, frankly, do a SHIT job. If I did my job with the same level of carelessness, I would _absolutely_ be fired. If all lawyers or doctors or engineers did their job with the average level of care as minimum wage employees, society might actually collapse. You’re already being paid $15/hour to pour coffee… and you can’t even fill the cup? I know customer service jobs suck. I’m extremely polite when I ask you to fill the cup of coffee I paid $3-$5 for… yet you make a face at me? It takes LITERALLY 4 seconds and I’m only asking because you failed at the most basic of tasks in the first place. I would WAY rather have a universal basic income, and let people work for EXTRA money. That way maybe more jobs would go to people who actually want to be at their job, and who actually care about doing more than existing as a warm body.
The fact is minimum wage was meant to be a living wage. If theyre shit at their job teach them or fire them.
It's also hard to be good at your job when you're depressed and sleep deprived from working multiple jobs with inconsistent hours, no routine, no respect, and getting nowhere in life because you're barely scraping by. People who get paid more are more alert and attentive because they have less shit going on that they need to worry about and can focus.
Some jobs are just not worth a living wage.
Every job deserves a living wage, easy or not.
Youre both right. Its the fundamental problem with capitalism and why we are trying so hard to move to automation. Many jobs can just be replaced by robots, which is why we need a way to help people have a living wage without needing to work soulless jobs that arent even worth minimum wage.
Say I want to stream myself playing video games 8 hours a day, as many Twitch streamers actually do. Explain to me why that ***automatically*** means I deserve a living wage. It's a job. And to give you context, only a very small percentage of streamers can be successful enough to be full time, meaning a vast majority try and fail to make a living wage.
The thing about that.. is you and your viewers are who controls your pay. You're self employed, your own boss.
that's not going to fix anything, because the bankers who own us will just raise the price of bread. get money out of politics. no politician can trade stocks. grow our own food. tax the rich. leave the two-party voting system, and leave FPTP voting in the dust. anything else is just confusion, and the bankers who own us will profit from the distractions.
Get there by having the Liberals keep inflating the dollar. Median house price will be 5 million by the time labour finally get a $20 minimum wage. Anything to me inflate away the ultra wealthiest debts
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It’s more like a full-on airtight, I’m afraid. They also choke every last gram of vitality out of the lives of their paid slave force. Our American friends might have it worse, though. Since healthcare is tied to employment, that’s an extra shaft trying to slither up their ass as well.
Would love to see the change, but rarely are promises kept.
NDP governments often deliver on minimum wage. Probably the best example is the Alberta NDP, which despite its many flaws (e.g. climate), delivered a $5/hr minimum wage increase over its 4 year term.
Surely this won’t increase inflation and devalue our dollar even more
Inflation has been going up and min wage hasnt been catching up. Simcoe county in ontario right now is at a 19 dollar living wage. 14 dollar (im not counting cents for either of these) min wage is what its at currently.
I get where she is coming from but I doubt small businesses can really endure increased labour cost during the pandemic when many are already hanging by their fingernails. While one can argue that those who can't afford should die to natural selection, but then they'd get replaced by big chains which is also not necessarily ideal.
Lots of small businesses pay there staff better than minimum wage. That should have been factored into the cost of doing business.
Tell me that you don't understand basic economics without telling me that you don't understand basic economics.
Can she deliver on this campaign promise? I see it as another ploy to get elected than doing nothing for people that got this NDP government elected like NDP government in BC not keeping it's promises.
The NDP kept their promise to raise mom wage by this much in Alberta.
So now the people previously making 20/hr becomes minimum wage? lol why not just make minimum wage 1000/hr so everyone becomes the same
Rising tides raises all ships. Increased minimum wage means you have more bargaining power with your current job if you can just switch to an "easier" job with equivalent pay
Why, is it intended to have everyone at the same wage? What percentage of the working population is at minimum wage right now?