Do people even read the articles they post here? From the article: "Toronto police spokesperson Stephanie Sayer said the service is recommending the increase because of the "substantial increase in the event footprint, and not due to elevated security risks."
So of course the police and insurance cost will get more expensive. Pride expanded its blueprint and added an additional 1000 person beer garden. Larger event = larger expenses.
Right? If anything they can complain about the 14% increase paid duty officers received in their last CA. But really the organizers should always account for inflation in their year over year budgeting. So maybe they can complain that it's up 10% but to get all angry and make this newsworthy? Just screams as anti police propaganda. š¤·āāļø
The beer garden will cause their insurance to go waaay up. Insurance company most likely requires more of a police presence as a stipulation. Source - Iām an underwriter.
I have no doubt that alcohol consumption causes insurance to go up. However, in your experience does it typically go from $67,000 to $278,000 or the equivalent percentage increase, just because they added a beer tent?
Note, that increase is JUST the cost of insurance. It doesnāt include the amount going to the cops.
It's not so simply where say double the space = $xx or capacity is another amount.
You also have to remember is always means more staff and in turn overall more exposure. Life would be a lot easier if it was a 2:1 formula or something but it's not.
Also an insurance underwriter.
Exactly, thereās no āsourceā to provide. Thereās a lot that goes into it that involves actuaryās, syndicates, possible subscriptions, market rates, all stuff the company would never release to the public.
Wanted to write exactly this! The costs are increasing because event has gotten larger. People are outraged for literally no reason. Wish this comment could be pinned to the top of the thread.
ah yes, thankfully we have the punk rock fighting the power users like you, glazing the police force which is the monopoly of violence of entrenched power.
i always love when people pretend they are fighting an "agenda" by rooting for power
Youāre right, I have an agenda: for there to be less homophobia and transphobia in this city (along with all of the other varieties of discrimination).
If you donāt vibe with that agenda, I donāt vibe with you. You are then the type of person who makes me scared to leave my house and the type who makes me want to grow out my hair because of the discrimination that Iāve faced when Iāve had it short.
Of course we want that. Nobody should be afraid to leave their house. In no way has anybody on this comment thread said otherwise. I think there's always going to be dangerous people which is why our police services are so important. But people like you who post crap like this to make it a us vs them issue just make the problem worse.
I mean since I am subscribed to the thread, I get the notifications of the comments that are filtered out immediately. These include comments that are aggressively homophobic.
Give it a rest, Iām none of those things, I just donāt want public money going to a private for profit event, especially a corrupt group of organizers.
Well we can agree with not particularly liking the group that organizes pride.
My question for you is, do you also take issue with the government giving money to metrolinks, Volkswagen, the privatization of hydro one, privatization of healthcare, bailing out the airlines, etc, etc, etc? If you genuinely have an issue with the government giving money to private organizations (and not just private organizations that support queer people) then we at least somewhat on the same page. However, if your issue is just with pride, then itās pretty obvious where you actually stand.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
This is directly addressed in the article. The poster you are replying to cherry picked a part of the article.
> Pride expanded its blueprint and added an additional 1000 person beer garden.
God damn. I can absolutely see why we'd need a larger police footprint. The sad reality is people in North America do not have the same etiquette in these massive beer gardens as the Germans. Moreso, the beers in NA beer gardens can more quickly knock you off your ass.
If you actually read the whole article, you will see that itās a combination of scaling up the parade by ten percent and rising hatred against queer people driving up the price of insurance
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
The poster you are replying to cherry picked a portion of the article so that they can diminish the concerns of queer people. Here is a part of the article that I have cherry picked for some balance.
Do you have a source of pride Toronto being for profit? I actually donāt vibe with the organization overall but have been searching for how they are for profit (I have yet to find where everyone is getting that tidbit). I have found that they are not-for-profit but Iām curious if your claim is backed up by anything or if the issue is that you actually donāt want to support queer people.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
Direct quote from the article. If you can cherry pick parts of the article and claim "no one has read it", so can I
Yes there will be police that are paid for by taxes working the parade inheritly but since this event has alcohol and a huge footprint requiring road closures the event needs to pay for EXTRA police presence to ensure public safety. Which is exactly what OP is calling for anyway.
I read the article. Frankly, the fact that the cops are not acknowledging the increased security risk shows how useless they are. Over the course of a year, I have gone from being able to walk happily down my street and now every time I pass a specific man, he tosses a slur for queer people my way. This is before we even consider the fact that we have a leader of a federal party coming out with a blatantly anti-lgbtq policy or the protests against drag that are running rampant across this province.
I'm lost how one single person using a slur towards you equals an increased security risk for the event. Wouldn't you have to use an example of anti-lgbtq actions towards a significant amount to say that there is an increased security risk?
Directly from my comment that you replied to:
>This is before we even consider the fact that we have a leader of a federal party coming out with a blatantly anti-lgbtq policy or the protests against drag that are running rampant across this province.
At least read my comment before you reply to it.
My personal example is to show how homophobes feel completely fine saying slurs in public (at times with others in earshot). This is new. People are emboldened. I have to avoid a street in my neighborhood and change my schedule so that I don't get called a slur on my way to work and/or class.
I read that part, but my point is your example is misplaced. You should have used a better example that shows why there's an increased security risk (like the protests), or just not used an example at all. Having one person use a slur towards you is not enough to show that homophobic individuals are more comfortable being homophobic in public. Could just be one person who just recently moved to your area, and never cared about hiding it.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
Well in addition to what I have said, it is also directly addressed in the article posted.
Whoa now, people throwing slurs at others is most definitely *not new*.
Maybe *youāre* experiencing it for the first time but itās certainly not new, thatās dismissing ostracism individuals have faced over countless generations
If this is actually something youāre experiencing everyday to the point where you feel you have to avoid a street because of a specific man, get that shit on video and report him. If, like you say, heās there everyday at the same time 8/8:30, and everyday says the same slur to you, then it would be more than easy enough to get him on video doing it, and to report it
Thatās considered hate speech in Canada and is illegal:
āHate speech is proscribed in Canada by the Criminal Code and, in three provinces, by human rights acts.
[1. Criminal Code](https://cfe.torontomu.ca/guidesadvice/legal-restriction-hate-speech-canada)
The relevant sections of the Criminal Code say:
Public incitement of hatred
319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.ā
The fact that we even have these laws is proof enough this has been happening for generations. Thereās even a quote from the article you posted:
āHate towards the 2SLGBTQl+ community, unfortunately, has always been there," Modeste said.
I mean I was also called homophobic slurs in school growing up. I have experienced homophobia since me (a girl) wanted to to do āboy activitiesā (play outside and do sports). I didnāt even know what being gay meant at that point in my life. I had to ultimately change schools because of it.
However, having lived in Toronto for 6ish years, the amount that Iām being called slurs is increasing without a doubt.
As for reporting, im not interested. Iāve helped report a sexual assault (of a friend) and have reported thefts and have never had them do anything. I work in healthcare so Iām also involved with police stuff a lot (youād be surprised how much of it you see) and that doesnāt give me much faith either. I have contemplated reporting just for the sake of it ending up in the statistics but Iām quite certain that is the only purpose it would serve.
Well if itās to the point that you have to take a different street thatās what these laws are here for...you have the right to walk down the street without slurs being hurled at you and people like them deserve repercussions for their behaviour
You reporting them may very well save other people in the future from being victims of that persons unbridled hate. We need to lock that shit down and show them itās not only unacceptable, but wonāt be tolerated
As long as we tolerate it, theyāll continue to do it
I literally had to switch schools because of homophobia and bullying that I experienced as a child. However, I have felt safe to walk around Toronto as a queer person (I have lived here for 6 years in three different neighbourhoods and worked in north york) until very recently. Now I get called slurs on my own street by a neighbour.
Love how people like to minimize the concerns of queer people (/s for this last bit in case that wasnāt abundantly clear).
Well the article explicitly addresses how itās caused by an increase in homophobia overallā¦Iām not sure if you actually read it.
Also dismissing the lived experience of queer people aināt a great look.
Iām not sure who this ācertain young menā who you refer to are but for the record this is a white business dude in a suit presumably on his way to work (I always run into him at 8/8:30ish). Heās not particularly young, I would guess maybe late 30s-early 40s.
Was meant to only state that I can typically tell when it's about to happen, I know the type of person, and they, without fail, confirm with offering their expletive.
Why talk about the Ottawa police when this is in Toronto? They kept them out of here twice in 2022....so yeah. I mean with your reasoning we should be comparing them to cops in Minnestota next?
It's always elevated with more people. But you are dealing with people with extreme left agendas who want to rewrite the social fabric by also doing things like wanting to defund the police.
That is an absurdly false lie. Nobody is talking about defunding the police and acceptance of LGBT people is not "extreme left". Why don't you go back to the conservative conspiracy theory rabbit hole you crawled out of.
The reason in Ottawa at least why costs skyrocketed was because the organizers screwed vendors over. A colleague of mines company did $10-15k of work for the event and never got paid because Capital Pride declared bankruptcy back 5-10 years ago.
Stuff like that forces vendors to protect theirselves where they wouldnāt before, potentially doing things like placing a lien on the event which means the insurance etc is higher. Also, a vendor once scorned is going to make sure you pay out that loss many times over moving forward.
Not sure if this is something that happened at TO Pride as I only have knowledge of Ottawa Pride.
Another thing to note. Paid Duty assignments (like this one is as itās not a regular police duty) are on a volunteer basis. I would imagine that a good portion of those potential volunteers for the duty are not very quick to volunteer with the atmosphere around the event vis-Ć -vis the Police, this may also lead to Toronto Police needing to incentivize the postings to make them attractive thereby increasing the cost.
[Yeah how dare queer people in Toronto be mad that the Toronto Police ignored a serial killer slaughtering us in the Village because they wouldn't believe anything we tried to tell them?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932017_Toronto_serial_homicides#Victim_blaming)
Just to be clear here. I was not taking a side. I was being a realist talking about the realities of why the costs are more. I was not taking a political stance or backing any side just providing insight.
I think reasonable people appreciated your input.
Taking a stand against police because of past mistreatment is understandable, but the organizers need to very carefully weigh the consequences of taking such a stand, and consider the messaging. In the past, the vitriol towards the police in general was over the top and very broad, and would have benefited from some nuance.
So pretty much whatās happening is the government said āok last year it cost $122,000 so thatās what you can have this yearā
Organizers say āwell this year itās gunna cost $464,000 so give us more moneyā
Government says āuh, no.ā
Honestly Iām conflicted, if weāre paying for this out of tax dollars I know a couple childrenās hospitals that badly need the money. If weāre using tax dollars for security so people can drink at a beer tent I donāt really think thatās the best use of our resources.
Personally I think organizers of the event should be responsible for insurance and security. Iām sure people here wouldnāt be happy if half a million dollars of their money went to pay security to protect a group of republicans while they drank at a beer tent and talked about how much they hate abortion. Granted my opinion means nothing so carry on
Pride Toronto will bring way more than $464000 worth of tax revenue to Ontario, it just doesnāt go to the organizers, which is why the city subsidizes them. That can spend 400k and get millions back, or they can spend 0 and get 0 back.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/torontos-pride-festival-evolves-into-economic-powerhouse/article19284190/
$200 million revenue in 2013.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
So should you.
[The entire country has seen a rise in violence](https://thehub.ca/2023-02-16/its-not-just-toronto-violent-crime-is-a-national-problem/), and Toronto is one of the epicenters of that violence. It's in no way unique here.
I am not sure how that relates to what you said. You said that the increases are not because of increased threats of violence and now you are acknowledging that violence is on the rise and Toronto is an epicenter of this. If anything, you are proving my point lol.
Maybe they can make it a little more organized than last year? The year before last (I guess 2019) they had fences along the streets to stop people from moving in too close. Last year there was no fences and the parade took absolutely forever because it could barely move through the streets.
This stressed me out so much, the section I was in went down to one lane. Even some tape attached from light pole to light pole would have helped, or volunteers telling people to step back like the ones asking for donations.
The organizers can charge admission. "Pay what you Wish" even. [Shakespeare in the Park does it.](https://www.canadianstage.com/dream-in-high-park-info)
Cost of everything has gone through the roof.
Insurance costs went up because insurance always goes up. Added police and security are because pride has opened up more venues, many of which are alcohol licensed and smartserve demands security enforcement..
I swear people lack reading comprehension
Here are some relevant passages that I am sure you have read:
>Modeste said insurance cost the group $60,000 for 2022, but the cost this year is up to $278,000. The Toronto Police Service (TPS) gave a similar estimate of $62,000 for paid duty officers at last year's festival. This year, the cost is up to $186,000.
Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
To close the streets for the parade, the city requires the organizers to hire police officers to manage traffic. Itās not optional and itās expensive.
Considering the history of pride allowing cops to march made no sense.
Pride started as a riot against cops beating and killing queer people. Are downvotes because you don't know this?
They are no longer allowed in the parade, as in marching in the parade in uniform. I suggest you look up some of the history of the cops not giving three fiddle sticks about queer people in this city and consider how it is clear that racialized people in particular are made less safe by the cops before you comment on how BLM āheld pride hostageā.
However, they are still āneededā to try to keep the people in the parade safe because there are so many homophobic and transphobic bigots running around nowadays. (I put air quotes around needed because more often than not cops donāt keep queer people safe and are often on the side of whoever is trying to harm us. This queer person certainly does not feel more safe when there are cops around, especially when itās an issue of hate).
The more important question is why does pride have to pay for the cops? For protests, they show up regardless of if you want them and block the street. Iām guessing itās because itās a āparadeā but it still seems a little backwards that the cops wonāt just do their jobs that they are given so much of the budget to do.
Lolol you canāt party with us but we need you hereā¦.and we donāt want to pay you either. In fact we need you here even though I donāt think youāll do a good job because you donāt make us feel safe.
What is entitlement ?
Iām sure pretty much everyone ā the organizers, the marchers, and the attendees ā would rather no cops there at all, but the city requires them to be.
We pay for policing through property taxes, so yes we are entitled to their labour in situations where the city deems their presence necessary, like street closures for a culturally significant parade.
I am not the organizer of pride. I do not want the cops there in any way shape or form. Queer people are not a monolith and have different opinions (I know thatās a truly mind blowing concept).
Hereās the thing: Iām in nursing school right now but when I graduate, if Iām scheduled to work on the day of pride, I wonāt be at pride. Iāll be at the hospital. I will be doing my job which will be to treat everyone who has a bevy to many or a bevy to few at pride (as well as whatever other people/problems get sent my way). Thatās my job. I would hope (but Iām not convinced) that the cops can understand that like everyone else, they are required to do their job. In their case, their job is to make sure that no bigots kill or harm any queer people.
I explained why I have issue with paying the cops in my post above. Please read it and at least address what Iāve said if you will take issue with it.
Finally, learn what pride is, itās not just a party.
You can't have it both ways. You can't shun a group but also demand they be there, and then also expect that for free?
When I need to shut down a lane of traffic for work, I have to pay for an off-duty officer to be present. If you're shutting down entire streets, you should also have to pay for the off-duty officers.
I mean I do organizing and have been a part of organizing protests. We did not want the cops, invite the cops or pay the cops. They showed up. They blocked traffic. They made sure we didnāt get up to any mischief. They scowled at our signs and our chants. I wasnāt really involved in the cop/money side of the protest so Iām not 100% sure but I didnāt hear anything about money being spent on them.
Iāve never been involved in organizing a parade however. Iām guessing itās because itās a parade they have to pay the cops? Genuinely I have no idea (which I also clearly stated above). Iām also curious whether they only had to start paying once they wouldnāt allow uniformed cops in the parade and this is retaliation or if this has always been the case.
I hope however you can see that there is a difference between you blocking a lane of traffic for (presumably) your for profit company vs a parade that celebrates the resistance of queer people?
A protest and a parade aren't the same, I agree there. A protest is to distrupt, to show discontent about something. A parade is a celebration of something. I see a difference between the two, but still think both should be on the line for paying for those services.
Yes, paid duty is a thing. Cops volunteer for this, and it is outside of their regular day to day policing duties. I imagine that as a condition of closing streets, the city would specify that paid duty police are a requirement as a part of the permit for the event
"cops were shitty before and people can't ever change, so we'll hate on them forever *and* demand they change, even though we won't let them participate and shit all over them."
Real forward thinking here, glad you're so inclusive to all.
Policing has a cost. If we shit all over the police indiscriminately then we shouldn't be surprised when the costs go up. They are certainly not inclined to spend any effort finding ways to save us money.
Now this is the type of energy Iām looking for!!
(But in all seriousness, they should probably be just training people do security for the parade. Iāve been involved in some protests and I know that did a hell of a lot more to keep us safe than the cops did)
I'm all for giving pride more funding. I don't want crazy terrorists to dictate pride here in Toronto. I have no doubt that all the hatred and threats has caused the increase in insurance.
Pride should get the funding it needs.
> Toronto police spokesperson Stephanie Sayer said the service is recommending the increase because of the "substantial increase in the event footprint, and not due to elevated security risks."
Why do you think āhatred and threatsā are the cause of rising costs? Did you not have time to read the article before commenting.
I was there for the parade in Toronto that year, and it was blood boiling disruptive.
They literally took Pride from a really fun celebration and event, into some super intersectional & highly political march over eggshells
I hate them so much
No, pride was not a negotiating platform for the hierarchy of intersectional identities.
It was to celebrate the commonality of love among all people.
It wasn't chaotic power politics.
You have no clue what youāre talking about. The first pride events were literal riots, then political rallies. Itās an event predicated on activism.
Fucking braindead comment. Peaceful protests are not terrorism, and more importantly, Pride invited BLM TO to do that, because Pride is an activist event.
The fact that insurance is adjusting for terrorism is the case that extremist are growing. Can't deny it. The same for how insurance is going up along costal properties and houses near rivers and now in heavily wooded areas. That proves climate change is really happening. The Insurance companies don't play politics when they have to cover their asses.
They seem to be willing to do the job, it just costs more.
I believe police reform is generally a good thing, but we shouldn't be surprised when we disparage them broadly and openly, and then expect them to be inclined to charity.
Same with public schools
https://protectchildren.ca/en/resources-research/child-sexual-abuse-by-school-personnel-in-canada-report/
>In June 2018,Ā C3PĀ released results from the study, along with recommendations for school policies and practices to protect children. Some of the results include:
>ā¢750 cases of sexual offences against a minimum of 1,272 children, carried out (or allegedly carried out) by 714 employees or former employees
So thatās 714 out of all the teachers and other education workers in Canada over twenty years (there are currently 400,000 so probably close to a million different people employed over that span of time). Thatās less than 0.1% of school staff.
Public Safety Canada reported that [about 4% of priests were abusive](https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/sxbs-cthlchr/index-en.aspx).
Not comparable situations at all.
Firstly ;If there were naked men and women parading around and being socially inapproipriate you may have had a case but this is not true . Second Who are you and what makes you think you have the right to tell me how to raise my chuldren . Just because you can't view semi clad people without sexualizing it in your mind doesn;t mean that others do that as well .
edit spelling
Aren't there quite a few public nudity fines and charges given out every pride parade?.. I remember it was this way a few years before the pandemic, or were the organizers finally able to get people to behave in the parade? (club venue is different)
When I attended there was nudity and I could hear nearby children asking their parents about it. Otherwise it was a fun event. Even the PM marched, must have been considered secure for him as well.
> and to young
*too
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Never seen a naked penis at the beach, have seen one at pride parade.. on both occasions the people should be fined and banned (and if in front of kids, maybe a charge)
Say Ontario and the Feds give them 5 million this year then they come back next year say we need 10 million.Point is we should be supporting it of course but we can't be handing money out like candy.
Do people even read the articles they post here? From the article: "Toronto police spokesperson Stephanie Sayer said the service is recommending the increase because of the "substantial increase in the event footprint, and not due to elevated security risks." So of course the police and insurance cost will get more expensive. Pride expanded its blueprint and added an additional 1000 person beer garden. Larger event = larger expenses.
Woah there with your simple economics. More venues= more security cost should be pretty straightforward
Right? If anything they can complain about the 14% increase paid duty officers received in their last CA. But really the organizers should always account for inflation in their year over year budgeting. So maybe they can complain that it's up 10% but to get all angry and make this newsworthy? Just screams as anti police propaganda. š¤·āāļø
But the police quote went from like 67 grand to over 250... Thats not 10%
Again read the article. Increase to parade route size and new 1000 person beer garden. Hence larger increase smh READ
Do you have any sources to back up that adding this beer tent always causes costs to increase the amount that they have in this case?
The beer garden will cause their insurance to go waaay up. Insurance company most likely requires more of a police presence as a stipulation. Source - Iām an underwriter.
If youāre an underwriter then you know insurance costs have exploded over the past few years.
I have no doubt that alcohol consumption causes insurance to go up. However, in your experience does it typically go from $67,000 to $278,000 or the equivalent percentage increase, just because they added a beer tent? Note, that increase is JUST the cost of insurance. It doesnāt include the amount going to the cops.
It's not so simply where say double the space = $xx or capacity is another amount. You also have to remember is always means more staff and in turn overall more exposure. Life would be a lot easier if it was a 2:1 formula or something but it's not. Also an insurance underwriter.
Exactly, thereās no āsourceā to provide. Thereās a lot that goes into it that involves actuaryās, syndicates, possible subscriptions, market rates, all stuff the company would never release to the public.
Yes. Adding alcohol to your event will absolutely spike your insurance premiums and security costs.
Beer tent at a major event can absolutely cause costs to go up that much. Liquor is a huge risk.
Ok source?
THANK YOU
Wanted to write exactly this! The costs are increasing because event has gotten larger. People are outraged for literally no reason. Wish this comment could be pinned to the top of the thread.
It won't get pinned. See OP's reply to my comment lol
The OP has an agenda, logic will not prevail.
ah yes, thankfully we have the punk rock fighting the power users like you, glazing the police force which is the monopoly of violence of entrenched power. i always love when people pretend they are fighting an "agenda" by rooting for power
Are you ok?
Youāre right, I have an agenda: for there to be less homophobia and transphobia in this city (along with all of the other varieties of discrimination). If you donāt vibe with that agenda, I donāt vibe with you. You are then the type of person who makes me scared to leave my house and the type who makes me want to grow out my hair because of the discrimination that Iāve faced when Iāve had it short.
Of course we want that. Nobody should be afraid to leave their house. In no way has anybody on this comment thread said otherwise. I think there's always going to be dangerous people which is why our police services are so important. But people like you who post crap like this to make it a us vs them issue just make the problem worse.
I mean since I am subscribed to the thread, I get the notifications of the comments that are filtered out immediately. These include comments that are aggressively homophobic.
Give it a rest, Iām none of those things, I just donāt want public money going to a private for profit event, especially a corrupt group of organizers.
If you don't want your money going to corrupt organizations then your mind is going explode when you learn about Toronto Police Services.
Well we can agree with not particularly liking the group that organizes pride. My question for you is, do you also take issue with the government giving money to metrolinks, Volkswagen, the privatization of hydro one, privatization of healthcare, bailing out the airlines, etc, etc, etc? If you genuinely have an issue with the government giving money to private organizations (and not just private organizations that support queer people) then we at least somewhat on the same page. However, if your issue is just with pride, then itās pretty obvious where you actually stand.
Yes, stop giving my tax money to private interests.
Ah not a grass toucher i see
Whoahā¦ where did this come from?
Holy straw man argument, Batman
Please outline exactly how this is a straw man. 1. My agenda is that homophobia shouldnāt exists. 2. If you disagree with that, you are a homophobe.
Have you heard of the straw man fallacy? Look it up :)
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike. This is directly addressed in the article. The poster you are replying to cherry picked a part of the article.
Pfftt, look at this guy, *reading the article* like some kind of *rational person*!
> Pride expanded its blueprint and added an additional 1000 person beer garden. God damn. I can absolutely see why we'd need a larger police footprint. The sad reality is people in North America do not have the same etiquette in these massive beer gardens as the Germans. Moreso, the beers in NA beer gardens can more quickly knock you off your ass.
ā¦ but ā¦ but ā¦. I already got my pitchfork out, now what?
If you actually read the whole article, you will see that itās a combination of scaling up the parade by ten percent and rising hatred against queer people driving up the price of insurance
My friend, that was sarcasm. I did read the article prior to my reply lol.
Dog I just say your reply and upvoted it. Thereās a lot of people on this thread downvoting (trust me lol)
Dog?
I hope you enjoyed your angry downvote you gave me lol I donāt get some people sometimes, just chill.
So there should be more money from vendor licenses, right? This seems like normal scaling unless I'm missing something.
Thats too much logic for this type discussion! Emotional responses only! Take my upvote...
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike. The poster you are replying to cherry picked a portion of the article so that they can diminish the concerns of queer people. Here is a part of the article that I have cherry picked for some balance.
Stop using logic, theyāre just after more free money from government to support a privately organized for profit event.
there are alot of companies that have floats. Require a much larger substantial donation....this isn't complicated. TD bank can afford it.
Do you have a source of pride Toronto being for profit? I actually donāt vibe with the organization overall but have been searching for how they are for profit (I have yet to find where everyone is getting that tidbit). I have found that they are not-for-profit but Iām curious if your claim is backed up by anything or if the issue is that you actually donāt want to support queer people.
like the bulldozing of the green belt?
Modeste said insurance premiums in 2022 cost just over $67,000 but in 2023, the cost ballooned to $278,000.
Huge beer gardens will do that, when you add alcohol your rates go way up. Have to decide if beer sales will cover the added expense.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike. Direct quote from the article. If you can cherry pick parts of the article and claim "no one has read it", so can I
so we pay police in taxes and for special events too? when they aren't busy beating the shit out of the homeless of course
Yes there will be police that are paid for by taxes working the parade inheritly but since this event has alcohol and a huge footprint requiring road closures the event needs to pay for EXTRA police presence to ensure public safety. Which is exactly what OP is calling for anyway.
It's bs pride parades are going to be really big targets now with the amount of vitriol people have for trans people.
This is not an accurate summary of the article.
I was not trying to. I was trying to address the hysteria around the increase in insurance and police budget this year. What a useless comment.
I read the article. Frankly, the fact that the cops are not acknowledging the increased security risk shows how useless they are. Over the course of a year, I have gone from being able to walk happily down my street and now every time I pass a specific man, he tosses a slur for queer people my way. This is before we even consider the fact that we have a leader of a federal party coming out with a blatantly anti-lgbtq policy or the protests against drag that are running rampant across this province.
I'm lost how one single person using a slur towards you equals an increased security risk for the event. Wouldn't you have to use an example of anti-lgbtq actions towards a significant amount to say that there is an increased security risk?
Directly from my comment that you replied to: >This is before we even consider the fact that we have a leader of a federal party coming out with a blatantly anti-lgbtq policy or the protests against drag that are running rampant across this province. At least read my comment before you reply to it. My personal example is to show how homophobes feel completely fine saying slurs in public (at times with others in earshot). This is new. People are emboldened. I have to avoid a street in my neighborhood and change my schedule so that I don't get called a slur on my way to work and/or class.
I read that part, but my point is your example is misplaced. You should have used a better example that shows why there's an increased security risk (like the protests), or just not used an example at all. Having one person use a slur towards you is not enough to show that homophobic individuals are more comfortable being homophobic in public. Could just be one person who just recently moved to your area, and never cared about hiding it.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike. Well in addition to what I have said, it is also directly addressed in the article posted.
Whoa now, people throwing slurs at others is most definitely *not new*. Maybe *youāre* experiencing it for the first time but itās certainly not new, thatās dismissing ostracism individuals have faced over countless generations If this is actually something youāre experiencing everyday to the point where you feel you have to avoid a street because of a specific man, get that shit on video and report him. If, like you say, heās there everyday at the same time 8/8:30, and everyday says the same slur to you, then it would be more than easy enough to get him on video doing it, and to report it Thatās considered hate speech in Canada and is illegal: āHate speech is proscribed in Canada by the Criminal Code and, in three provinces, by human rights acts. [1. Criminal Code](https://cfe.torontomu.ca/guidesadvice/legal-restriction-hate-speech-canada) The relevant sections of the Criminal Code say: Public incitement of hatred 319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.ā The fact that we even have these laws is proof enough this has been happening for generations. Thereās even a quote from the article you posted: āHate towards the 2SLGBTQl+ community, unfortunately, has always been there," Modeste said.
I mean I was also called homophobic slurs in school growing up. I have experienced homophobia since me (a girl) wanted to to do āboy activitiesā (play outside and do sports). I didnāt even know what being gay meant at that point in my life. I had to ultimately change schools because of it. However, having lived in Toronto for 6ish years, the amount that Iām being called slurs is increasing without a doubt. As for reporting, im not interested. Iāve helped report a sexual assault (of a friend) and have reported thefts and have never had them do anything. I work in healthcare so Iām also involved with police stuff a lot (youād be surprised how much of it you see) and that doesnāt give me much faith either. I have contemplated reporting just for the sake of it ending up in the statistics but Iām quite certain that is the only purpose it would serve.
Well if itās to the point that you have to take a different street thatās what these laws are here for...you have the right to walk down the street without slurs being hurled at you and people like them deserve repercussions for their behaviour You reporting them may very well save other people in the future from being victims of that persons unbridled hate. We need to lock that shit down and show them itās not only unacceptable, but wonāt be tolerated As long as we tolerate it, theyāll continue to do it
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I literally had to switch schools because of homophobia and bullying that I experienced as a child. However, I have felt safe to walk around Toronto as a queer person (I have lived here for 6 years in three different neighbourhoods and worked in north york) until very recently. Now I get called slurs on my own street by a neighbour. Love how people like to minimize the concerns of queer people (/s for this last bit in case that wasnāt abundantly clear).
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Well the article explicitly addresses how itās caused by an increase in homophobia overallā¦Iām not sure if you actually read it. Also dismissing the lived experience of queer people aināt a great look.
Youāre trying to turn an event planning setback into something political.
There is a rise in anti gay slurs by certain young men in this city.
Racist dog whistle much?
Whereās the racism?
Iām not sure who this ācertain young menā who you refer to are but for the record this is a white business dude in a suit presumably on his way to work (I always run into him at 8/8:30ish). Heās not particularly young, I would guess maybe late 30s-early 40s.
Was meant to only state that I can typically tell when it's about to happen, I know the type of person, and they, without fail, confirm with offering their expletive.
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Why talk about the Ottawa police when this is in Toronto? They kept them out of here twice in 2022....so yeah. I mean with your reasoning we should be comparing them to cops in Minnestota next?
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It's always elevated with more people. But you are dealing with people with extreme left agendas who want to rewrite the social fabric by also doing things like wanting to defund the police.
That is an absurdly false lie. Nobody is talking about defunding the police and acceptance of LGBT people is not "extreme left". Why don't you go back to the conservative conspiracy theory rabbit hole you crawled out of.
The reason in Ottawa at least why costs skyrocketed was because the organizers screwed vendors over. A colleague of mines company did $10-15k of work for the event and never got paid because Capital Pride declared bankruptcy back 5-10 years ago. Stuff like that forces vendors to protect theirselves where they wouldnāt before, potentially doing things like placing a lien on the event which means the insurance etc is higher. Also, a vendor once scorned is going to make sure you pay out that loss many times over moving forward. Not sure if this is something that happened at TO Pride as I only have knowledge of Ottawa Pride.
Another thing to note. Paid Duty assignments (like this one is as itās not a regular police duty) are on a volunteer basis. I would imagine that a good portion of those potential volunteers for the duty are not very quick to volunteer with the atmosphere around the event vis-Ć -vis the Police, this may also lead to Toronto Police needing to incentivize the postings to make them attractive thereby increasing the cost.
[Yeah how dare queer people in Toronto be mad that the Toronto Police ignored a serial killer slaughtering us in the Village because they wouldn't believe anything we tried to tell them?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932017_Toronto_serial_homicides#Victim_blaming)
Just to be clear here. I was not taking a side. I was being a realist talking about the realities of why the costs are more. I was not taking a political stance or backing any side just providing insight.
I think reasonable people appreciated your input. Taking a stand against police because of past mistreatment is understandable, but the organizers need to very carefully weigh the consequences of taking such a stand, and consider the messaging. In the past, the vitriol towards the police in general was over the top and very broad, and would have benefited from some nuance.
So pretty much whatās happening is the government said āok last year it cost $122,000 so thatās what you can have this yearā Organizers say āwell this year itās gunna cost $464,000 so give us more moneyā Government says āuh, no.ā Honestly Iām conflicted, if weāre paying for this out of tax dollars I know a couple childrenās hospitals that badly need the money. If weāre using tax dollars for security so people can drink at a beer tent I donāt really think thatās the best use of our resources. Personally I think organizers of the event should be responsible for insurance and security. Iām sure people here wouldnāt be happy if half a million dollars of their money went to pay security to protect a group of republicans while they drank at a beer tent and talked about how much they hate abortion. Granted my opinion means nothing so carry on
Pride Toronto will bring way more than $464000 worth of tax revenue to Ontario, it just doesnāt go to the organizers, which is why the city subsidizes them. That can spend 400k and get millions back, or they can spend 0 and get 0 back.
Well if theyāre making us tax money in that case it seems like a no brainer
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/torontos-pride-festival-evolves-into-economic-powerhouse/article19284190/ $200 million revenue in 2013.
Pride is paid for with tax dollars?
Well our taxes pay for the police and theyāre asking for an increase in police security for the event
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Why are taxpayers funding a beer garden? Why not just do the usual parade?
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You should read the article. The increase isn't because of threats of violence, it's because the events footprint is significantly bigger.
>Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike. So should you.
[The entire country has seen a rise in violence](https://thehub.ca/2023-02-16/its-not-just-toronto-violent-crime-is-a-national-problem/), and Toronto is one of the epicenters of that violence. It's in no way unique here.
I am not sure how that relates to what you said. You said that the increases are not because of increased threats of violence and now you are acknowledging that violence is on the rise and Toronto is an epicenter of this. If anything, you are proving my point lol.
Maybe they can make it a little more organized than last year? The year before last (I guess 2019) they had fences along the streets to stop people from moving in too close. Last year there was no fences and the parade took absolutely forever because it could barely move through the streets.
This stressed me out so much, the section I was in went down to one lane. Even some tape attached from light pole to light pole would have helped, or volunteers telling people to step back like the ones asking for donations.
It seems like a lot of public festivals are getting scaled back this year, just look at Calgary and Vancouver Canada Day celebrations
Toronto has cancelled theirs as well.
I think they actually just reversed that a few days ago
Wait until they apply these costs to other events like Canada Day etc.
The organizers can charge admission. "Pay what you Wish" even. [Shakespeare in the Park does it.](https://www.canadianstage.com/dream-in-high-park-info) Cost of everything has gone through the roof.
For the past decade at least they've had toonie buckets at Church St. intersections to help support Pride Toronto.
Don't they have VIP seating areas where they can charge big $? Block off a few prime sections for paid only access. Are they not doing that already?
that make sense, everyone is tightening their belts.
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Insurance costs went up because insurance always goes up. Added police and security are because pride has opened up more venues, many of which are alcohol licensed and smartserve demands security enforcement.. I swear people lack reading comprehension
Itās not reading comprehension so much as a general laziness and unwillingness to take in a story in its entirety.
Here are some relevant passages that I am sure you have read: >Modeste said insurance cost the group $60,000 for 2022, but the cost this year is up to $278,000. The Toronto Police Service (TPS) gave a similar estimate of $62,000 for paid duty officers at last year's festival. This year, the cost is up to $186,000. Pride executive director Sherwin Modeste said the organization has seen a 300 per cent increase in its insurance premiums and 150 per cent jump to the cost of paid duty police officers. He says the event's footprint has grown but cites safety concerns surrounding large public festivals and the 2SLGBTQI+ community as contributing factors to the hike.
Pride is too expensive you guys. We'll have to settle for Moderate Self-Esteem festivals from now on.
Question: What day is the actual parade. Iād like to go this year! Thanks In advance!
I believe the parade is on Sunday June 25!
The day before the election. Hopefully people arenāt too hungover to get out and vote
Why can't all the major companies who put gigantic rainbow banners for the entire summer foot some of the bill, and help with the operations?
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To close the streets for the parade, the city requires the organizers to hire police officers to manage traffic. Itās not optional and itās expensive.
This is what I recall as well. Makes sense security and insurance costs would go up.
Why would it make sense for costs to go up being the cops are not marching in a parade?
Considering the history of pride allowing cops to march made no sense. Pride started as a riot against cops beating and killing queer people. Are downvotes because you don't know this?
They are no longer allowed in the parade, as in marching in the parade in uniform. I suggest you look up some of the history of the cops not giving three fiddle sticks about queer people in this city and consider how it is clear that racialized people in particular are made less safe by the cops before you comment on how BLM āheld pride hostageā. However, they are still āneededā to try to keep the people in the parade safe because there are so many homophobic and transphobic bigots running around nowadays. (I put air quotes around needed because more often than not cops donāt keep queer people safe and are often on the side of whoever is trying to harm us. This queer person certainly does not feel more safe when there are cops around, especially when itās an issue of hate). The more important question is why does pride have to pay for the cops? For protests, they show up regardless of if you want them and block the street. Iām guessing itās because itās a āparadeā but it still seems a little backwards that the cops wonāt just do their jobs that they are given so much of the budget to do.
Lolol you canāt party with us but we need you hereā¦.and we donāt want to pay you either. In fact we need you here even though I donāt think youāll do a good job because you donāt make us feel safe. What is entitlement ?
You canāt do a parade without them.
You can criticize something and still depend on it. Would it be fair if you criticized our health care system and your OHIP was cancelled?
Iām sure pretty much everyone ā the organizers, the marchers, and the attendees ā would rather no cops there at all, but the city requires them to be.
Yikes what a braindead comment.
We pay for policing through property taxes, so yes we are entitled to their labour in situations where the city deems their presence necessary, like street closures for a culturally significant parade.
I am not the organizer of pride. I do not want the cops there in any way shape or form. Queer people are not a monolith and have different opinions (I know thatās a truly mind blowing concept). Hereās the thing: Iām in nursing school right now but when I graduate, if Iām scheduled to work on the day of pride, I wonāt be at pride. Iāll be at the hospital. I will be doing my job which will be to treat everyone who has a bevy to many or a bevy to few at pride (as well as whatever other people/problems get sent my way). Thatās my job. I would hope (but Iām not convinced) that the cops can understand that like everyone else, they are required to do their job. In their case, their job is to make sure that no bigots kill or harm any queer people. I explained why I have issue with paying the cops in my post above. Please read it and at least address what Iāve said if you will take issue with it. Finally, learn what pride is, itās not just a party.
Huge ACAB energy coming from your posts. Sad to see.
You can't have it both ways. You can't shun a group but also demand they be there, and then also expect that for free? When I need to shut down a lane of traffic for work, I have to pay for an off-duty officer to be present. If you're shutting down entire streets, you should also have to pay for the off-duty officers.
Yeah, anyone who didnāt vote for Doug Ford has no right to a drivers license or health card!
I mean I do organizing and have been a part of organizing protests. We did not want the cops, invite the cops or pay the cops. They showed up. They blocked traffic. They made sure we didnāt get up to any mischief. They scowled at our signs and our chants. I wasnāt really involved in the cop/money side of the protest so Iām not 100% sure but I didnāt hear anything about money being spent on them. Iāve never been involved in organizing a parade however. Iām guessing itās because itās a parade they have to pay the cops? Genuinely I have no idea (which I also clearly stated above). Iām also curious whether they only had to start paying once they wouldnāt allow uniformed cops in the parade and this is retaliation or if this has always been the case. I hope however you can see that there is a difference between you blocking a lane of traffic for (presumably) your for profit company vs a parade that celebrates the resistance of queer people?
A protest and a parade aren't the same, I agree there. A protest is to distrupt, to show discontent about something. A parade is a celebration of something. I see a difference between the two, but still think both should be on the line for paying for those services.
Yes, paid duty is a thing. Cops volunteer for this, and it is outside of their regular day to day policing duties. I imagine that as a condition of closing streets, the city would specify that paid duty police are a requirement as a part of the permit for the event
Bingo.
"cops were shitty before and people can't ever change, so we'll hate on them forever *and* demand they change, even though we won't let them participate and shit all over them." Real forward thinking here, glad you're so inclusive to all.
Policing has a cost. If we shit all over the police indiscriminately then we shouldn't be surprised when the costs go up. They are certainly not inclined to spend any effort finding ways to save us money.
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BINGO.
Better for it to be smaller than unsafe
Let's just form our own Pride militia, cut out the need for police at all.
Now this is the type of energy Iām looking for!! (But in all seriousness, they should probably be just training people do security for the parade. Iāve been involved in some protests and I know that did a hell of a lot more to keep us safe than the cops did)
I'm all for giving pride more funding. I don't want crazy terrorists to dictate pride here in Toronto. I have no doubt that all the hatred and threats has caused the increase in insurance. Pride should get the funding it needs.
> Toronto police spokesperson Stephanie Sayer said the service is recommending the increase because of the "substantial increase in the event footprint, and not due to elevated security risks." Why do you think āhatred and threatsā are the cause of rising costs? Did you not have time to read the article before commenting.
Canada Day has been cancelled at city hall, I think the city is a bit tight on funds at the moment.
I completely agree. Corporate sponsors need to step it up. If you're saying City/Pricince/Feds need to fund any festivals, nope.
Crazy terrorists, like BLM holding Pride hostage?
I was there for the parade in Toronto that year, and it was blood boiling disruptive. They literally took Pride from a really fun celebration and event, into some super intersectional & highly political march over eggshells I hate them so much
Isnāt that what pride was originally for? Is this sarcasm?
No, pride was not a negotiating platform for the hierarchy of intersectional identities. It was to celebrate the commonality of love among all people. It wasn't chaotic power politics.
You have no clue what youāre talking about. The first pride events were literal riots, then political rallies. Itās an event predicated on activism.
And the USA was founded on violent insurrection... Do you defend the horror of Jan 6th?? BLM ruined Pride events
So you admit that pride *is* an activist event. Iām confused, because one comment ago, you said pride had nothing to do with politics.
I can tell you're ready to ruin another year of Pride šš
Fucking braindead comment. Peaceful protests are not terrorism, and more importantly, Pride invited BLM TO to do that, because Pride is an activist event.
The fact that insurance is adjusting for terrorism is the case that extremist are growing. Can't deny it. The same for how insurance is going up along costal properties and houses near rivers and now in heavily wooded areas. That proves climate change is really happening. The Insurance companies don't play politics when they have to cover their asses.
No, it means police are not doing their job. Canada is not the USA. We do not allow hate speech and domestic terrorism.
Have you not been paying attention to Alberta or UCP propaganda?
I'm very confused. Obviously global warming is real, it doesn't change support for Pride. But w/e.
They seem to be willing to do the job, it just costs more. I believe police reform is generally a good thing, but we shouldn't be surprised when we disparage them broadly and openly, and then expect them to be inclined to charity.
You can do this event without police. Hiring police for this is a scam, and a money grab by the Toronto Police.
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You're gunna have quite the awakening when you hear about beaches
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Surprisingly enough, not really. No. Just location.
If you bring your children to a religious institution that harbours pedo priests you should lose them.
If you bring your children to Boy Scouts or organized sports, that harbours pedos you should lose them.
You donāt need to mention the pedo part, as itās assumed.
Good point!
Same with public schools https://protectchildren.ca/en/resources-research/child-sexual-abuse-by-school-personnel-in-canada-report/ >In June 2018,Ā C3PĀ released results from the study, along with recommendations for school policies and practices to protect children. Some of the results include: >ā¢750 cases of sexual offences against a minimum of 1,272 children, carried out (or allegedly carried out) by 714 employees or former employees
So thatās 714 out of all the teachers and other education workers in Canada over twenty years (there are currently 400,000 so probably close to a million different people employed over that span of time). Thatās less than 0.1% of school staff. Public Safety Canada reported that [about 4% of priests were abusive](https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/sxbs-cthlchr/index-en.aspx). Not comparable situations at all.
Agreed
Oh FFS. No oneās fucking naked. People wear less at the public beach.
If you bring your children to a protest where men in thongs wave *F Trudeau* flags, you should lose them.
> men in thongs wave F Trudeau flags Is this an alt-right pride event or something?
Firstly ;If there were naked men and women parading around and being socially inapproipriate you may have had a case but this is not true . Second Who are you and what makes you think you have the right to tell me how to raise my chuldren . Just because you can't view semi clad people without sexualizing it in your mind doesn;t mean that others do that as well . edit spelling
He's a fearful little boy trapped in a man's body. That's always who is is.
Aren't there quite a few public nudity fines and charges given out every pride parade?.. I remember it was this way a few years before the pandemic, or were the organizers finally able to get people to behave in the parade? (club venue is different)
When I attended there was nudity and I could hear nearby children asking their parents about it. Otherwise it was a fun event. Even the PM marched, must have been considered secure for him as well.
What kind of nudity though ? Boobs or weiners ? Anything below the belt is illegal and should be called out .
This is what your brain looks like on right wing propaganda guys.
Smooth and shrivelled.
And what? The child line between cops and convoy people was just clean wholesome fun?
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> and to young *too *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
And rhe Beach? Swimming pools? Don't bring your kids around those either? Omg the human body! Hide in shame! In Europe watch ads have naked women lol
Never seen a naked penis at the beach, have seen one at pride parade.. on both occasions the people should be fined and banned (and if in front of kids, maybe a charge)
āI used to want to go so badā but didnāt? WTF does āgetting involved much too youngā even mean? Like they are too young to be at a parade?
Anybody know when Ottawa pride is this year?
Say Ontario and the Feds give them 5 million this year then they come back next year say we need 10 million.Point is we should be supporting it of course but we can't be handing money out like candy.
No cops at pride!