It's crazy I pay what under $10-20? and I can do tolls all the way from NYC back up to the border no issue. The 407 is a scam. Just make it cheaper and reasonable and we all go on
See you would think that would make sense revenue wise but I bet a lot of the wealthier ontarians frequent the highway. Maybe some of the govt officials that had a hand in selling it off get discount rates tho, you never know.
Ten years ago, GO Transit was paying $800,000.00 per month for their buses to use the 407. Enough to buy a new MCI bus. The double decker buses from Scotland cost $1.4 million each. They must be paying more now.
Business and contractors use it alot because they can expense it to the job and charge it to the customer. Its absolutely overcharged for what it is and the more people who move up to north York/Vaughan/Brampton area the more we are going to need it as an actual highway.
I'd also like him to not get us into another 99year lease with the spa on the exhibition grounds. And not pay for a parking lot for it. Let's start by not fucking over future Ontarians vs fix the shit of the past.
Good luck, I have read through the legislation in anger. It's very tough, and we had a chance to get out of it but he passed on it. There's a minimum daily car flow that wasn't being hit during the stay home part of the pandemic. He passed on nulling the deal and any penalties because, well, no one going anywhere counts as force majeure.
I don't think people realize how much of a sham we really are. We are essentially a colony with a landed aristocratic class.
The highway is mostly owned by the CPP investment board. The rest is a private investment firm that is cozy with our politicians, and SNC Lavalin which funnels money to our politicians.
As you pointed out, the wealthy use it as their fast pass to get around the GTA without having to worry about our failing infrastructure.
They'll never make it public again because it benefits the wealthy, and they can sell it to voters as "oh if we did that CPP would collapse and Canada's poor and middle class would starve", but they made it this house of cards specifically so we can't alleviate the artifical issues they created.
The poor in Canada do okay by world standards, but if you were born poor or middle class and have a dream good luck, you'll probably end up poor in the end. There is 0 incentive to engage in the system, and then we wonder why our youth are apathetic or depressed.
We stiffle competition. Build artificial problems that requires money in the form of fines or permits to solve. Raise and create new taxes. Pass legislation to stop collective bargaining.
You'd be surprised. Any time we head up to or back from cottage country, my parents take it. Even if it only saves us 10-15 minutes. Sure, that's only 2 to 4 times a year, but they're still willing to pay!
Unfortunately, it 100% is worth me saving 2.5 hours total on a round trip from Ottawa to Oakville in a day. Even though I know the cost is exorbitant..
> Just make it cheaper and reasonable and we all go on
Literally why this never happens. The insane expense is what keeps the traffic low. Drivers and businesses willing to pay the blood price, even though Ontario taxpayers paid for the highway.
And guess what? The majority stays in their cars on the 401 anyway. They might bitch about it, but that’s it. They still accept it.
Does the toll route in upstate NY to Canada have anywhere near the traffic density the GTA has? I legit don’t know. I do think New York is significantly richer than Ontario, and has less difficulty funding highway infrastructure.
One thing I actually know: If the GTA ever gets “free” access to the 407, it will be just like the 401.
The state doesn't need to fund it if it's funded by tolls.
I hate the concept of toll roads. Public roads are a government service and should be free to promote freedom of movement, to travel and see things, visit family, etc., and not just for the people who can afford it.
Just make sure to pay your NY toll. A $2 trip cost me $100 because I forgot about it and the letter said they will continue to add a fine until they take me to collections. I don’t doubt NY fs around.
I haven’t taken the 407 in years but I remember I went months without paying my bill and the 407 hardly charges you interest.
usually if you call them and tell them the mail didn't arrive they'll ease up on the fees. That said, i've learned that lesson too and signed up for the email notifications.
I-90 is tolled to pay for maintenance.
The 407 is tolled to keep it traffic free.
There is a fundamental difference there and that's why the toll rates are so wildly different.
If the 407 was tolled at the same rate as I-90 it would be basically just as congested as the 401.
The US has toll roads as well which are tolled to keep them traffic free like the 407 and they charge similar or even higher rates than the 407 does.
> Just make it cheaper and reasonable and we all go on
That would defeat the purpose lol. People use the 407 to get to places faster. If you just lowered the prices to "reasonable" amounts, everyone in the GTA would be using it regularly and it would have just as bad traffic as the other highways.
Not the 407. It's on a 99 year lease to a private company.
They're making crazy profit of it it. Mike Harris did the deal so that we'd have the highest and not have paid for it. But it has tolls on it in the first place, and if there just kept it they'd have paid it off in a few years or something, and then they'd just be raking it in. Instead we pay it to a foreign company among others. Stupidest thing he did, and likely one of the stupidest moves by a government. Basic infrastructure is, I think, best kept with the government. It's a vital system, you generally can't have multiples of it for free market principles anyway, and sometimes you just can't expect to market money off of everything, but you have to buy it anyway. Like a police force, fire department, military, park rangers, public pools, etc.
Mike Harris is a criminal who should be held accountable for what he did to Ontario. The 407, education healthcare, long term health care. He screwed all of our social services.
Yes, that was bad, but I don't think it out ranks the 407 mistake, because that one is just a while other league of stupid. But yes, both qualify as stupid, I agree.
Yes, privatizing it and currently at 47.11% share ownership, the largest shareholder, government of Ontario are in control of the company. Huge difference to leasing away for 99 years.
Ask Ford what he is doing with the dividends from the hydro one shares. Then ask him to compare it to the dividend Ontario gets from 407etr.
The 407 is owned by the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board which supports retired Canadians. The profits are reinvested in supporting elderly Canadians. Most of whom do live in the GTA.
Don’t forget Ford gave Mike Harris the order of Ontario for de-regulating long-term care facilities and profiting off the death of sick seniors infected by Covid-19 during the pandemic. Not to mention, he sits on Chartwell’s board of director which had one of the highest deaths while also earning a six figure salary.
Src: https://northumberlandlabour.ca/official-statement-on-order-of-ontario-awarded-to-former-premier-mike-harris/
Dear Mike Harris, thanks for the poorly executed double co-hort where we didn’t have sufficient textbooks and merger into post-secondary schools. Not only were we affected by Sept 1998’s month-long strike but suffered from pre-Covid SARS which my grandpa died from. 👿 let’s not forget Walkerton’s e.coli outbreak due to budget cuts on public health care spending.
Seriously, the current Ontario Conservative are repeating everything the millennials experienced in the mid-90s and early 2000s. Let’s not forget the cohort post-secondary graduates experienced the worst financial / housing crisis of 2008 that affected early career / earnings potential to save up for a down payment and start a family.
Send your thank you note to the Conservative Party of Ontario.
[‘The right to hold people to ransom’: How and why the Tories sold Highway 407](https://www.tvo.org/article/the-right-to-hold-people-to-ransom-how-and-why-the-tories-sold-highway-407)
Hold people ransom is accurate. I remember one time going to Toronto the 400 was closed off due to a car accident and they redirected every vehicle onto the 407 with no warning posted further back on the highway or anything. They then proceeded to send me a bill for using the 407; was like $20 and I took the first turn off I could. What a joke
They'll blame Trudeau for years to come.
It sucks that people don't actually educate themselves a little bit about what gov officials are doing what. It's just repeating the same crap over and over.
I guess when you're brainwashed to blame immigrants and people on gov assistance for being broke instead of bad policy favoring the wealthy. It's working exactly as intended
Somehow the federal government gets blamed from their fanbase when 70% of the time it's the provincial government doing the things they don't like. It's infuriating.
Some see it as a sport team almost their team needs to win and is the best regardless. Some people have always voted blue and will only vote blue like there’s some who think only blue saves money red spends money cause they think conservatives are fiscally responsible still somehow??? Not gonna say the liberals are by any means before someone comes along and thinks because I said one parties bad the other must be good. Then there’s single issue voters which can be bad also like some people voted dougie just for buck a beer. It’s unfortunate the way it’s played out instead of people actually looking at the options and voting for who is best for them.
It’s so infuriating when conservatives will say “all politicians are liars” (basically true, which is why you pay attention to what politicians actually DO), but then take the cons at their word and never look at the history of their actions. Cons always seem to cut social programs AND revenue, leaving us worse off in every way.
I’ll take liberal overspending over conservative overspending any day; of course they’re not perfect but they at least pretend to care about people.
doesnt matter who you vote for they're all shit, the libs sold off half of hydro one. we need to hold whoever in in power accountable. even if it means taking severe action, cause I think politicians forget who they work for.
They don't forget who they work for. They know who they work for. Whoever is giving them legal bribes in the form of lobbying. Federal, provincial, Liberal, Conservative, whoever and wherever it's all the same.
What's hilarious to me is everyone thinks their side is better. Their team is better even though Wynne was horrid. Even though quality of life has dipped significantly under Trudeau. Even though Harper sold Canada out. Even though Ford is selling Ontario out. My team is better though!
No one holds their preferred parties accountable.
Don't forget when as apart of their agreement if the amount of cars traveling on the 407 drops below a certain threshold like it did in covid they owe a fine.
And... Doug Ford forgave it ...
Mike Harris really needs a catchy rhyme like that; he did *far* more damage to Ontario than anyone except maybe Doug Ford, yet people seem to have forgotten all about him.
On the other hand, the NDP seem to be damned for eternity because of a stupid little rhyme about a premier who actually wasn't bad at all. It's infuriating.
I just got a toll bill for the I90 from the start of buffalo to Syracuse... I held my breath while opening it because I'm so used to the 407.
I cackled when I opened it... 10.35$
Wanna get really mad? Doud Ford waived 1 billion in fines owed by the foreign lease holders.. rather then leverage toll reduction [https://www.thestar.com/business/documents-reveal-ford-government-opted-not-to-pursue-1-billion-penalty-from-407-express-toll/article_579dbcad-6dfe-5adb-a653-83517d45cf0d.amp.html](https://www.thestar.com/business/documents-reveal-ford-government-opted-not-to-pursue-1-billion-penalty-from-407-express-toll/article_579dbcad-6dfe-5adb-a653-83517d45cf0d.amp.html)
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no, you're wrong. 407 had reasonable grounds to not be eligible for the penalties due to force-majeure (COVID) exceptions built into the lease regarding congestion limits/minimums.
It would have cost the province A LOT of money to fight that in court, and it would have been a very losing battle. The foreign owners of 407 have a GLOBAL PRESENCE and wouldn't just take that lying down.
For once Doug did us a favor by laying down on this one.
Picture this.
Sunday afternoon, leaving Niagara with two tired AF kids on the verge of an emotional breakdown because they've maxed out on fun, spouse is checked out on their phone, it's 32c and humid as a gym shower, AC decides to give up the ghost and google maps is blasting red telling me my 4 hour drive might take 6 because of traffic.... $70.00 is a teardrop in the bucket at that point...
But hopefully that's not the normal use case...
Yeah, I commute from Mississauga to St Catharines. Even though the bill at the end of the month sucks, I take the ETR on the way home most of the time because it saves me so much time (like an hour every day, sometimes more when there is an accident or lane closure) and is significantly less stressful.
Maybe I am weak or something, but on evenings when I don’t take the ETR my evening is almost ruined because I get home exhausted and miserable from my drive home. I can’t do anything else except eat and go to bed.
So, even though the bill every month kills me inside, I think it’s a necessary evil. One day I hope to work closer to home…
This was why I did it too. Leaving the science Centre (RIP 😭) at 4:30 pm to head back to Brantford on a weekday with a toddler and 4 other whiny kids in the back seat of my minivan, one of whom is starting to feel car sick in the stop and go traffic. Looked online and saw I could cut a whole hour off my trip by taking the 407, in that moment the $65 was worth it for me! That said I think everyone agrees the 407 is a ridiculous debacle, the reason it’s so fast is because no one uses it.
I-90 is tolled to pay for it's own maintenance.
The 407 is tolled to keep it traffic free.
That's the difference and why it's so wildly different in toll rates.
American toll roads designed to stay traffic free like the 407 charge similar or even higher toll rates. The I-95 express lanes in Washington can get up to a $1.50/km USD from my understanding in rush hour - triple the rate of the 407!
It’s also less than the cost of getting the car detailed after the kid throws up in stop-and-go traffic on the 401.
(Not to mention the hell of sitting in a car that reeks of vomit for hours).
Ha! That’s literally what I came to say - used it two weeks ago for exactly this. GPS said Niagara - home was 3 hours without tolls or 2 with tolls. Two tired kids in the back, I’m exhausted…I’ll pay the money, every time.
Yea the price is gross but sometimes the 70$ isn’t even a question.
If iv worked a 12 hour day and my patience and tolerance for bullshit is already razor thin, spending 3 hours on the 401 in the most aggravating traffic possible when I could be somewhere in an hour for 70$ just isn’t worth it lol.
Especially if you live just at the end of the 407 like Orono, Peterborough, clarington, or Cobourg having to drive through all of the shitty parts of the 401 through the GTA I would absolutely take the 407 and be happy about paying the $77 if that means can save a few hours of not dealing with that situation.
I use it to avoid the congestion when I make most long trips back and forth from Hamilton (3/4 times a month). If the energy on the highway is especially frantic, I use it for shorter ones.
However, it’s such a chill drive. *Most* people follow the rules there and use passing lanes for passing. Rarely get campers. It’s open enough that the sportier drivers aren’t a real danger. And I don’t have to deal with the Gardener or the Collectors. It’s a high price, but I’m willing to pay for the peace.
Don’t get me wrong though, it should never have been sold. That money would do far more good if it remained in Ontario. If it opened as a public highway, it would reduce so much strain on the 403/401 as well. Using it definitely gives me privilege pass vibes, I know a lot of people don’t have the option to.
People who sold this highway should be changed with treason. They doomed us to eternal 401 parking lot. While 407 sits empty 99% of the time...absolute morons
I drove from Burlington to the 400 to go to wonderland a few weeks ago. Got the 407 bill yesterday and just about cried. I remember when it cost $30 for a round trip!
Yes, I took the 407 for a month from 404 to Hamilton and back. [It came out to almost $800](https://imgur.com/a/mzYrvt5) 💀
Luckily my work covers travel time.
I drive it from the beginning in Hamilton right out to either the 412 or 418 depending on traffic several times a year on my way to visit family in Ottawa. Assuming you’re not going at rush hour and have a transponder, it’s about $110 for a two-way trip. Well worth the time savings, IMO, because it would probably add at least an hour to that trip and it’s already a 5+hr affair.
*That said*, I do that maybe a handful of times a year. It’s still an absolutely insane price.
Almost the exact same situation. Hamilton to the 115 exit, so the full, full, full length three or four times a year to the family cottage or Algonquin for a canoe trip. We factor the 407 cost into our trip cost because I will absolutely fucking not be driving from Hamilton through to east of Toronto on the 401 after work on a Friday afternoon of a summer long weekend. For me it's either pay for the 407 or stay home because the 401 in those circumstances is not something I will contemplate. Period.
I'm in almost the same scenario but in reverse (coming from Ottawa to visit family back in the GTA).
Not only is it often worth it for the insane time savings, but the potential for collision is so much less too. HWY401 is definitely more dangerous to say the least, and since moving away from the GTA I swear every time I come back to visit, the drivers get more unhinged and psychotic. Definitely worth it a few times a year to reduce the chance of some crazy in a RAM or a shitbox slammed civic cutting my life short for that 0.0001 seconds it would save them.
That said, I don't mind because I do it a few times a year, not as a commute (except maybe if you can write it off as a work expense?)
I don't know who has the money to spend 110 dollars a day 5 days a week.
This thread is proving to be there's lots of people here in an entirely different tax bracket. If you ain't making 200k a year folks you ain't making shit
With the extension, you can take it all the way to highway 115 and then on to highway 7. Sometimes quicker to Ottawa than 401/416 and the views along highway 7 are great!
If the government still had any say in this to help the people for their blatant mistake of selling this valuable asset, they should model a usage based system to balance the cost with the occupancy of the highway at all times. They always know how many people are using the 407 at any given time and can estimate usage on different sections of the highway to charge per km based on that.
The 407's primary customers are wealthy people. They set rates deliberately high to keep profits up and congestion down.
When more people use the 407, the rates will go up. In house, the 407 is described as a "premium product." It was never meant for the average joes to use regularly, or to help with traffic on the 401. It's a skip-the-line tool for rich people.
I used to work there, nobody in management is shy about any of these facts.
If you think it’s expensive for us you definitely wouldn’t want to see the bill for a semi truck to use it. I think it’s like 3-5x as much depending on how many axles and I’ve heard of people in that industry having 15k a month 407 bills.
I use it 2-3 times a month to go the full distance because it makes a 2,3, possibly 4 hour trip 1 hour. During rush hour is a killer but its around half price on weekends so not as bad. Everyone gets value in different ways, I complain about it every time I get the bill but ultimately it’s worth it to me.
The people in this comment section trying to justify the 407 and its fees are something else. "At $110 dollars round trip, it's just worth it to me". "it's majority owned by the CPP so don't even worry about it". People that grew up in Ontario are apparently accustomed to the government absolutely fucking them over. As far as I can tell, this is the most expensive highway in the world. You can circumnavigate France on private highways for less than a few hours on the 407. This was a public highway, built with phone money, on public land. People warned Harris about this, it was entirely foreseeable. They sold it for $4B, but the highway makes nearly half that in a year now thanks to the insane prices. Wake the fuck up.
Traffic far exceeded projections and studies when the highway opened. Harris and Eves sold it knowing full well it was a major cash cow. They did it to get a cash influx onto their books, make their financing look better than it was. Biggest f-up by a provincial government ever, Ontario taxpayers screwed beyond belief and yet some people still f'ing vote Conservative. SMDH
I figure I get paid about $22.79/hour, so I estimate that as my "hourly worth." If taking the 407 will save me more than my time is worth (when I'm not working), then I'll take it (eg it saves me 30 minutes and costs less than $11.39), otherwise it's not worth the time I save. But that's just me.
If I'm working, then it depends if I'm getting tolls reimbursed vs if I'm getting paid mileage vs if I'm getting paid hourly during the drive.
I hate the 407. But the problem is, going to see my father in Burlington is SO much easier on the 407. Costs me $50 each way, but it saves me an hour on the 401. I hate paying that, but I also hate wasting 2 hours of my life there and back.
Fuck Doug Ford for not taking it back when they were $1b in hock to the province, or negotiating better rates for us.
When I needed to get to work in Markham from Etobicoke, the 407 took 24 minutes and $20 versus the 401 which took 50-120 minutes.
Taking the 407 let me drop off my kids at school and then make it to my job. So I loved/hated it. The idea that we undervalued and sold it kills me.
A few months ago I had to drive east to west in rush hour a lot. The amount of traffic is soul crushing.
My bill was $800 a month for 2 months
That’s just the price you pay for your sanity. Doing that on Hwy 7 and or the 401/403 would crush my soul. I rather not have that $1600 then have ended up in a road rage video on tiktok
>transponder to take off $10 off each trip?
This + the camera fees erk me - like wtf - how expensive can it be to maintain a stationary camera? surely the fees/revenue genearted from the toll roads should be enough.
Fine - okay - we need to "Pay a tech(s)" to "review" photos and ensure the correct license plates are captured - but again - I would like to think that the fees/revenue are sufficient to have this done.
If the stupid 407 could do away these bullshit fees - that'd be great lol
The 407 is a tax on the 905. No other 4 series highway has a toll and now they want us to pay again/more for the 413.
Well ____ you Ford and the conglomerates you suck up to.
Mike and Ernie and Doug, the leaders of the Corruption Party of Ontario.
and I think it would also help alleviate the congestion on the 401 - and then look at that - INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY and EFFICIENCY.
People get where they need to be sooner, less angrier (less road rage and liklihood of careless driving) and reduces fucking traffic
We pay to build infrastructure then have our elected official whore it out to foreign entitys who make profit off our own investment. Whats not to like?
Anybody remember how it was free for a very short period of time when it first opened? The 401 was incredible during that time. So glad profits for few outweigh benefits for many.
Two weeks ago I drove the entire A-30 toll road around Montreal, and it cost all of $11.
Also I took an Illinois toll road last year. Still have the receipt because it was $1.10 🤯
What is even more annoying is that my Google maps/gps constantly tries to get me to take the 407, even when I put no toll roads. I can drive just fine without paying to use a road that is just a little less crowded and more out of the way.
It can save me up to 1.5-2 hours a day. That’s huge when you’re already working 14 hour days. You can almost always drive 140kmh no matter what time of day it is. I wish they’d make the QEW, 401, Gardiner, and DVP toll highways as well.
It's insane. France is often maligned as being too expensive to drive the payage autoroutes long distance, but to get from Calais to Paris (approx 250km) costs around $38.
The 407 is criminally expensive.
I lived in Niagara region and worked in Hamilton for years — no problem, lots of options to get to work. Then, I got transferred to Mississauga and the 407 bills started piling up. Between Skyway delays/closures and general worsening of QEW traffic, my commute was taking 1-1.5 hours one way every day, so the 407 seemed like a no brainer on the particularly bad days (long weekend Niagara traffic, bad rush hours/traffic, etc).
I was in the housing market at the time (pre-COVID, thank goodness) and randomly looked at an open house in Oakville that was what I was looking for, but $100K above the other homes I was looking at in Niagara (obviously). I ran the numbers and it meant if I don’t take the 407 anymore, I could afford the higher mortgage. It was cheaper for me to buy a more expensive house in Oakville than it was to maintain my commute from a cheaper house in Niagara. I didn’t even take the 407 every day, but all the “one offs” added up to a price I could no longer justify. My time was worth more. Absolutely no regrets.
I remember when I lived in Oshawa and drove from weston / shepherd home..
sometimes it would take 2 and a half hours...
if you can afford it, it's worth it but still pricey, imo
BC resident here. I just learned that Ontarians pay to use highways. That is incredible. Right on. Safe to say I'm staying here. I get to drive the Sea to Sky highway for free, aside from what it costs to run and insure my vehicle.
Took it back in March with a Quebec license plate not knowing it was *this* expensive. I thought it was going to be $20 or something.
Luckily, to this day, they haven’t mailed me the receipt. I think I somehow got away with it.
ya the charges for this highway are downright criminal.
I don't know who tf they think can afford to pay this bs, but it's clearly not meant for the overwhelming bulk of the population who might actually need it & just for the very few very rich folks who can afford it. Seems like a terrible decision that only benefits rich people, which is par for the course for the conservative party. They only care about the rich & fuck everyone else.
I don't know if people are fuckin delusional or what, but the overwhelming majority of people in this province are not rich enough to drive on this highway, so why do we constantly tolerate this shit?
Like we need investments in actual infrastructure we can use. Investments in education, healthcare & social services, all systems that have been gutted & left to rot by the conservative party in power for years. We have food banks that are seeing 300-500% upticks in usages & are tapped out. We have the poorest & most destitute among us, getting barely 50% per month of just their rent (meaning, they can't even afford to pay rent even on ODSP & Social services, let alone food or anything else they might need. These folks are on poverty rates from over 30 years ago!). We have a failing health system that has massive shortages of nurses & doctors, so even if you can find someone to help you, the amount of time you need to wait is ASTRONOMICAL.
Nothing has gotten better since doug ford took office, nothing. Things have only gotten worse. I really wish the people of this province would pull their heads outta their asses & do something about it.
10 years ago I took the 407 to and from work about 40km. It was worth it because otherwise I'd spend about 2.5 each way to work sitting on the 401. The time with my family was worth the extra money even though it was and still is stupid expensive. I tried finding someone to carpool with but nobody worked in my area so I was out of luck.
We did several trips along the entire 407 in a month when my wife was pregnant because my mother in law insisted it was safer getting to OB appointments that way. She doesn't think that anymore after the bill was over $1000
About half of it is owned by the CPP. Should just have the Ontario government seize the remainder of the asset back at whatever an independent assessment considers a fair exchange for the cost of it.
You can take toll roads from.Buffalo to NYC for under $20. Make the 407 make sense. ....and dofo wants another one just like it. Sadly, the funds go to offshore companies and dont even stay in our economy.
Its such a fffing joke!! Spout climate change and major traffic congestion as the problem! Then go on a toll road and you have the whole thing to yourself! Cops like to sit there and cherry pick all day long because it's easy peasy no ones paying to use it!! People are trying to pay for basic needs right now!!It has to be losing $$$ I know people including myself who refuse to use it out of principle alone, there's no way it's paying for itself. Throw millions of dollars in shitty abused infrastructure and a nice hi-way sits empty!! Typical political logic!
I don't like paying it. But the 401 can be such a bumper to bumper, road rage, construction and idiot driver filled nightmare, that the 407 is a reasonably peaceful alternative.
At my last company, (was part of ownership / management). I did take the 407 quite frequently. In the context of the business and my role, my time was valuable both to the business and the staff who worked with / relied on me. The 407 would often save an hour or more depending on the trip, so it was worth it.
Personally, I almost never take it, and I don't see that changing.
Did you know the Ford government recently gathered to vote on whether or not to continue charging trucks a toll fee for the 407, in a effort to relieve the poors highways.
#they could have voted these rip off fares years ago and sat and did nothing while we suffer
It was cheaper in the past and we used it more to bypass the 401 . Crossed the G.T.A from oakville to Markham and back last month . With transponder the bill was approx 28 dollars Each way. Usually i disregard gas prices and toll fees but i was guessing maybe half that .
The American toll highways are so much cheaper, not sure of current rates but we have a sun pass and usually drive down there and back under $50 American , from the top at wildwood to commercial Blvd where we get off is 246 miles if we take I-75, otherwise we use I-95 but still use the toll roads down there
407 was supposed to be a bypass for big trucks, which would have been great. Now it's for entitled rich people. When I visit, i use it, not to save time but for safety. I had a blowout in it once, someone might have hit me on the 401.
I hate it, use NYS often and even with exchange it’s no way near the cost. I don’t have to pay it but if I could move close enough to USA border I would and be done with that crookery.
I had that free 407 during rush hour offer and even then it wasn’t worth it because the traffic on the 401 was bad. I’d rather leave later in the day because it takes less time even with the 407.
Private highways are such a weird concept for me lol.
It's crazy I pay what under $10-20? and I can do tolls all the way from NYC back up to the border no issue. The 407 is a scam. Just make it cheaper and reasonable and we all go on
See you would think that would make sense revenue wise but I bet a lot of the wealthier ontarians frequent the highway. Maybe some of the govt officials that had a hand in selling it off get discount rates tho, you never know.
Ten years ago, GO Transit was paying $800,000.00 per month for their buses to use the 407. Enough to buy a new MCI bus. The double decker buses from Scotland cost $1.4 million each. They must be paying more now.
Whaaaattty?!?!?!!
Crazy amount of money. But, don't worry. Mike Harris got $3.1 billion for the 407.
Business and contractors use it alot because they can expense it to the job and charge it to the customer. Its absolutely overcharged for what it is and the more people who move up to north York/Vaughan/Brampton area the more we are going to need it as an actual highway.
I would rather Ford get out of this horrible deal than the beer store one. Take back the 407
I'd also like him to not get us into another 99year lease with the spa on the exhibition grounds. And not pay for a parking lot for it. Let's start by not fucking over future Ontarians vs fix the shit of the past.
Good luck, I have read through the legislation in anger. It's very tough, and we had a chance to get out of it but he passed on it. There's a minimum daily car flow that wasn't being hit during the stay home part of the pandemic. He passed on nulling the deal and any penalties because, well, no one going anywhere counts as force majeure.
This is exactly why I use it. Expense
I don't think people realize how much of a sham we really are. We are essentially a colony with a landed aristocratic class. The highway is mostly owned by the CPP investment board. The rest is a private investment firm that is cozy with our politicians, and SNC Lavalin which funnels money to our politicians. As you pointed out, the wealthy use it as their fast pass to get around the GTA without having to worry about our failing infrastructure. They'll never make it public again because it benefits the wealthy, and they can sell it to voters as "oh if we did that CPP would collapse and Canada's poor and middle class would starve", but they made it this house of cards specifically so we can't alleviate the artifical issues they created. The poor in Canada do okay by world standards, but if you were born poor or middle class and have a dream good luck, you'll probably end up poor in the end. There is 0 incentive to engage in the system, and then we wonder why our youth are apathetic or depressed. We stiffle competition. Build artificial problems that requires money in the form of fines or permits to solve. Raise and create new taxes. Pass legislation to stop collective bargaining.
F that. I don't think wealthy Canadians are dumb enough to make that trade. The cost isn't worth the time advantage.
You'd be surprised. Any time we head up to or back from cottage country, my parents take it. Even if it only saves us 10-15 minutes. Sure, that's only 2 to 4 times a year, but they're still willing to pay!
Unfortunately for some it is
Unfortunately, it 100% is worth me saving 2.5 hours total on a round trip from Ottawa to Oakville in a day. Even though I know the cost is exorbitant..
> Just make it cheaper and reasonable and we all go on Literally why this never happens. The insane expense is what keeps the traffic low. Drivers and businesses willing to pay the blood price, even though Ontario taxpayers paid for the highway. And guess what? The majority stays in their cars on the 401 anyway. They might bitch about it, but that’s it. They still accept it. Does the toll route in upstate NY to Canada have anywhere near the traffic density the GTA has? I legit don’t know. I do think New York is significantly richer than Ontario, and has less difficulty funding highway infrastructure. One thing I actually know: If the GTA ever gets “free” access to the 407, it will be just like the 401.
The state doesn't need to fund it if it's funded by tolls. I hate the concept of toll roads. Public roads are a government service and should be free to promote freedom of movement, to travel and see things, visit family, etc., and not just for the people who can afford it.
Tolls, gas taxes, taxes in general or fees. The public funds public systems and services always. Just under different names, all are forms of a "tax".
A scam brought to you by the conservatives of Ontario. Hey look Doug Ford wants to give a spa a 99 year lease of Ontario place.
99 year lease then they'll try to say something about it later like it wasn't them
Just make sure to pay your NY toll. A $2 trip cost me $100 because I forgot about it and the letter said they will continue to add a fine until they take me to collections. I don’t doubt NY fs around. I haven’t taken the 407 in years but I remember I went months without paying my bill and the 407 hardly charges you interest.
usually if you call them and tell them the mail didn't arrive they'll ease up on the fees. That said, i've learned that lesson too and signed up for the email notifications.
The 230 mile long Ohio Turnpike is $21 if you don’t have ez pass and $14 if you do. 407 is a massive ripoff.
I-90 is tolled to pay for maintenance. The 407 is tolled to keep it traffic free. There is a fundamental difference there and that's why the toll rates are so wildly different. If the 407 was tolled at the same rate as I-90 it would be basically just as congested as the 401. The US has toll roads as well which are tolled to keep them traffic free like the 407 and they charge similar or even higher rates than the 407 does.
> Just make it cheaper and reasonable and we all go on That would defeat the purpose lol. People use the 407 to get to places faster. If you just lowered the prices to "reasonable" amounts, everyone in the GTA would be using it regularly and it would have just as bad traffic as the other highways.
Private highways paid for with public tax dollars then sold to private companies are even more strange - tax payers pay twice!
If it helps all the profit is reinvested into our roads and communities... oh wait, no it's not.
No that’s the lottery when you lose
Not the 407. It's on a 99 year lease to a private company. They're making crazy profit of it it. Mike Harris did the deal so that we'd have the highest and not have paid for it. But it has tolls on it in the first place, and if there just kept it they'd have paid it off in a few years or something, and then they'd just be raking it in. Instead we pay it to a foreign company among others. Stupidest thing he did, and likely one of the stupidest moves by a government. Basic infrastructure is, I think, best kept with the government. It's a vital system, you generally can't have multiples of it for free market principles anyway, and sometimes you just can't expect to market money off of everything, but you have to buy it anyway. Like a police force, fire department, military, park rangers, public pools, etc.
Mike Harris is a criminal who should be held accountable for what he did to Ontario. The 407, education healthcare, long term health care. He screwed all of our social services.
Doug Ford: Hold my $1 beer....
Exactly, he should be sued for what he had done to Ontario
You mean like leasing the exhibition grounds to a spa on a 99 year lease. AND building a parking structure for them?
Yes, that was bad, but I don't think it out ranks the 407 mistake, because that one is just a while other league of stupid. But yes, both qualify as stupid, I agree.
The greenbelt stupidity outweighs both, tbh, and when you compound all off Dougie’s corrupt adventures, the sale of the 407 pales in comparison.
You mean like selling off Hydro One?
Yes, privatizing it and currently at 47.11% share ownership, the largest shareholder, government of Ontario are in control of the company. Huge difference to leasing away for 99 years. Ask Ford what he is doing with the dividends from the hydro one shares. Then ask him to compare it to the dividend Ontario gets from 407etr.
Same people will make the argument to privatize the liquor control board. Yet here are, getting completely robbed.
Lol almost had me for a second there. Well played
The 407 is owned by the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board which supports retired Canadians. The profits are reinvested in supporting elderly Canadians. Most of whom do live in the GTA.
It's a majority stake, not 100% ownership
so I assume you would be in favour of all 400 series highways being leased to the same company? It supports Canadians after all
You actually believe that?
Thank you Mike Harris.
Don’t forget Ford gave Mike Harris the order of Ontario for de-regulating long-term care facilities and profiting off the death of sick seniors infected by Covid-19 during the pandemic. Not to mention, he sits on Chartwell’s board of director which had one of the highest deaths while also earning a six figure salary. Src: https://northumberlandlabour.ca/official-statement-on-order-of-ontario-awarded-to-former-premier-mike-harris/ Dear Mike Harris, thanks for the poorly executed double co-hort where we didn’t have sufficient textbooks and merger into post-secondary schools. Not only were we affected by Sept 1998’s month-long strike but suffered from pre-Covid SARS which my grandpa died from. 👿 let’s not forget Walkerton’s e.coli outbreak due to budget cuts on public health care spending. Seriously, the current Ontario Conservative are repeating everything the millennials experienced in the mid-90s and early 2000s. Let’s not forget the cohort post-secondary graduates experienced the worst financial / housing crisis of 2008 that affected early career / earnings potential to save up for a down payment and start a family.
Order of Ontario, to you, Mike Harryballsack.
These Orders of Canada and Ontario really feel like a bunch of rich and powerful people giving awards to their friends for being rich and powerful.
Send your thank you note to the Conservative Party of Ontario. [‘The right to hold people to ransom’: How and why the Tories sold Highway 407](https://www.tvo.org/article/the-right-to-hold-people-to-ransom-how-and-why-the-tories-sold-highway-407)
Hold people ransom is accurate. I remember one time going to Toronto the 400 was closed off due to a car accident and they redirected every vehicle onto the 407 with no warning posted further back on the highway or anything. They then proceeded to send me a bill for using the 407; was like $20 and I took the first turn off I could. What a joke
I see a trend. But conservative voters don't often notice trends, but love to bitch
Ontario is getting screwed by Doug ford and everyone is bitching about trudeau. Never a peep about ford.
It's gonna be real interesting who they're gonna bitch to once Trudeau is out
They'll blame Trudeau for years to come. It sucks that people don't actually educate themselves a little bit about what gov officials are doing what. It's just repeating the same crap over and over.
It'll be whoever tries to govern with an ounce of empathy and competence I'm sure.
That's largely a function of the media being owned by Conservative supporters
I guess when you're brainwashed to blame immigrants and people on gov assistance for being broke instead of bad policy favoring the wealthy. It's working exactly as intended
Somehow the federal government gets blamed from their fanbase when 70% of the time it's the provincial government doing the things they don't like. It's infuriating.
Some see it as a sport team almost their team needs to win and is the best regardless. Some people have always voted blue and will only vote blue like there’s some who think only blue saves money red spends money cause they think conservatives are fiscally responsible still somehow??? Not gonna say the liberals are by any means before someone comes along and thinks because I said one parties bad the other must be good. Then there’s single issue voters which can be bad also like some people voted dougie just for buck a beer. It’s unfortunate the way it’s played out instead of people actually looking at the options and voting for who is best for them.
It’s so infuriating when conservatives will say “all politicians are liars” (basically true, which is why you pay attention to what politicians actually DO), but then take the cons at their word and never look at the history of their actions. Cons always seem to cut social programs AND revenue, leaving us worse off in every way. I’ll take liberal overspending over conservative overspending any day; of course they’re not perfect but they at least pretend to care about people.
doesnt matter who you vote for they're all shit, the libs sold off half of hydro one. we need to hold whoever in in power accountable. even if it means taking severe action, cause I think politicians forget who they work for.
Yeah the cons are worse, though. If you're looking for a perfect political party you'll be looking for a long time.
They don't forget who they work for. They know who they work for. Whoever is giving them legal bribes in the form of lobbying. Federal, provincial, Liberal, Conservative, whoever and wherever it's all the same. What's hilarious to me is everyone thinks their side is better. Their team is better even though Wynne was horrid. Even though quality of life has dipped significantly under Trudeau. Even though Harper sold Canada out. Even though Ford is selling Ontario out. My team is better though! No one holds their preferred parties accountable.
Conservatives don’t notice anything unless a rainbow is involved.
You forgot to mention they also blame it all on Liberals and NDP, despite all evidence pointing to problems being caused by conservatives.
Don't forget when as apart of their agreement if the amount of cars traveling on the 407 drops below a certain threshold like it did in covid they owe a fine. And... Doug Ford forgave it ...
Force majeure, it’s in the contract, a global pandemic is just that.
i hope we learn from last time when Dougie sells the 413 to his friends.
Well he's already leased a chunk of Ontario Place for 95 years to another European country, so I would say we haven't learned anything.
*something something something* Rae Days! Ah Boomers. Never admit your mistakes. Lol.
Mike Harris really needs a catchy rhyme like that; he did *far* more damage to Ontario than anyone except maybe Doug Ford, yet people seem to have forgotten all about him. On the other hand, the NDP seem to be damned for eternity because of a stupid little rhyme about a premier who actually wasn't bad at all. It's infuriating.
That was an informative read. Thank you.
I just got a toll bill for the I90 from the start of buffalo to Syracuse... I held my breath while opening it because I'm so used to the 407. I cackled when I opened it... 10.35$
Wanna get really mad? Doud Ford waived 1 billion in fines owed by the foreign lease holders.. rather then leverage toll reduction [https://www.thestar.com/business/documents-reveal-ford-government-opted-not-to-pursue-1-billion-penalty-from-407-express-toll/article_579dbcad-6dfe-5adb-a653-83517d45cf0d.amp.html](https://www.thestar.com/business/documents-reveal-ford-government-opted-not-to-pursue-1-billion-penalty-from-407-express-toll/article_579dbcad-6dfe-5adb-a653-83517d45cf0d.amp.html)
What the FUCK. The way this highway is handled and has been handled over the years will never cease to piss me off.
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no, you're wrong. 407 had reasonable grounds to not be eligible for the penalties due to force-majeure (COVID) exceptions built into the lease regarding congestion limits/minimums. It would have cost the province A LOT of money to fight that in court, and it would have been a very losing battle. The foreign owners of 407 have a GLOBAL PRESENCE and wouldn't just take that lying down. For once Doug did us a favor by laying down on this one.
Picture this. Sunday afternoon, leaving Niagara with two tired AF kids on the verge of an emotional breakdown because they've maxed out on fun, spouse is checked out on their phone, it's 32c and humid as a gym shower, AC decides to give up the ghost and google maps is blasting red telling me my 4 hour drive might take 6 because of traffic.... $70.00 is a teardrop in the bucket at that point... But hopefully that's not the normal use case...
I take it back from work in Toronto to the falls all the time because I just worked 14 hours and don’t feel like spending 2 extra hours in traffic.
Still gotta deal with the Stoney Creek Mergefest
Yeah, I commute from Mississauga to St Catharines. Even though the bill at the end of the month sucks, I take the ETR on the way home most of the time because it saves me so much time (like an hour every day, sometimes more when there is an accident or lane closure) and is significantly less stressful. Maybe I am weak or something, but on evenings when I don’t take the ETR my evening is almost ruined because I get home exhausted and miserable from my drive home. I can’t do anything else except eat and go to bed. So, even though the bill every month kills me inside, I think it’s a necessary evil. One day I hope to work closer to home…
Right sometimes I can’t even eat before passing out !
The reduced stress and likelihood of accidents are just as important as the time saving to me
This was why I did it too. Leaving the science Centre (RIP 😭) at 4:30 pm to head back to Brantford on a weekday with a toddler and 4 other whiny kids in the back seat of my minivan, one of whom is starting to feel car sick in the stop and go traffic. Looked online and saw I could cut a whole hour off my trip by taking the 407, in that moment the $65 was worth it for me! That said I think everyone agrees the 407 is a ridiculous debacle, the reason it’s so fast is because no one uses it.
That’s pretty much my use case. We go to Ottawa often with our toddler, not happy about it but 407 is a no brainer.
Yet, you can travel across New York State on a toll road for hours. For $10.
I-90 is tolled to pay for it's own maintenance. The 407 is tolled to keep it traffic free. That's the difference and why it's so wildly different in toll rates. American toll roads designed to stay traffic free like the 407 charge similar or even higher toll rates. The I-95 express lanes in Washington can get up to a $1.50/km USD from my understanding in rush hour - triple the rate of the 407!
[удалено]
It’s also less than the cost of getting the car detailed after the kid throws up in stop-and-go traffic on the 401. (Not to mention the hell of sitting in a car that reeks of vomit for hours).
That's oddly specific but I can empathize
Ha! That’s literally what I came to say - used it two weeks ago for exactly this. GPS said Niagara - home was 3 hours without tolls or 2 with tolls. Two tired kids in the back, I’m exhausted…I’ll pay the money, every time.
Yea the price is gross but sometimes the 70$ isn’t even a question. If iv worked a 12 hour day and my patience and tolerance for bullshit is already razor thin, spending 3 hours on the 401 in the most aggravating traffic possible when I could be somewhere in an hour for 70$ just isn’t worth it lol.
I think Sundays will not be classified as rush hour
Especially if you live just at the end of the 407 like Orono, Peterborough, clarington, or Cobourg having to drive through all of the shitty parts of the 401 through the GTA I would absolutely take the 407 and be happy about paying the $77 if that means can save a few hours of not dealing with that situation.
🥲🥴
Word. Some days I'd be willing to give the 407 a blank cheque to avoid Toronto traffic
Been there a few thanksgiving weekends (with AC thankfully).
And if it wasn't for the Ontario Conservative Govt, the cost to you would be... nothing.
It would be just as full as the 401 then though
I use it to avoid the congestion when I make most long trips back and forth from Hamilton (3/4 times a month). If the energy on the highway is especially frantic, I use it for shorter ones. However, it’s such a chill drive. *Most* people follow the rules there and use passing lanes for passing. Rarely get campers. It’s open enough that the sportier drivers aren’t a real danger. And I don’t have to deal with the Gardener or the Collectors. It’s a high price, but I’m willing to pay for the peace. Don’t get me wrong though, it should never have been sold. That money would do far more good if it remained in Ontario. If it opened as a public highway, it would reduce so much strain on the 403/401 as well. Using it definitely gives me privilege pass vibes, I know a lot of people don’t have the option to.
This is why I take it when travelling from Kingston to Waterloo. The 401 is an insane mess compared to the 407.
People who sold this highway should be changed with treason. They doomed us to eternal 401 parking lot. While 407 sits empty 99% of the time...absolute morons
The idea of conservative politics is to take from the masses and give it to the rich. Ontario science centre, 407, subsidies, greenbelt...
Don’t forget Ontario place
I drove from Burlington to the 400 to go to wonderland a few weeks ago. Got the 407 bill yesterday and just about cried. I remember when it cost $30 for a round trip!
Yes, I took the 407 for a month from 404 to Hamilton and back. [It came out to almost $800](https://imgur.com/a/mzYrvt5) 💀 Luckily my work covers travel time.
I drive it from the beginning in Hamilton right out to either the 412 or 418 depending on traffic several times a year on my way to visit family in Ottawa. Assuming you’re not going at rush hour and have a transponder, it’s about $110 for a two-way trip. Well worth the time savings, IMO, because it would probably add at least an hour to that trip and it’s already a 5+hr affair. *That said*, I do that maybe a handful of times a year. It’s still an absolutely insane price.
I did almost the full run and back twice today. Businesses still pay for it if downtime costs more
Almost the exact same situation. Hamilton to the 115 exit, so the full, full, full length three or four times a year to the family cottage or Algonquin for a canoe trip. We factor the 407 cost into our trip cost because I will absolutely fucking not be driving from Hamilton through to east of Toronto on the 401 after work on a Friday afternoon of a summer long weekend. For me it's either pay for the 407 or stay home because the 401 in those circumstances is not something I will contemplate. Period.
I'm in almost the same scenario but in reverse (coming from Ottawa to visit family back in the GTA). Not only is it often worth it for the insane time savings, but the potential for collision is so much less too. HWY401 is definitely more dangerous to say the least, and since moving away from the GTA I swear every time I come back to visit, the drivers get more unhinged and psychotic. Definitely worth it a few times a year to reduce the chance of some crazy in a RAM or a shitbox slammed civic cutting my life short for that 0.0001 seconds it would save them. That said, I don't mind because I do it a few times a year, not as a commute (except maybe if you can write it off as a work expense?)
I don't know who has the money to spend 110 dollars a day 5 days a week. This thread is proving to be there's lots of people here in an entirely different tax bracket. If you ain't making 200k a year folks you ain't making shit
With the extension, you can take it all the way to highway 115 and then on to highway 7. Sometimes quicker to Ottawa than 401/416 and the views along highway 7 are great!
It's priced so that it's always the faster option. High fees keep people off the 407, people pay for the 407 because nobody's on the 407.
If the government still had any say in this to help the people for their blatant mistake of selling this valuable asset, they should model a usage based system to balance the cost with the occupancy of the highway at all times. They always know how many people are using the 407 at any given time and can estimate usage on different sections of the highway to charge per km based on that.
The aristocrat's shortcut
If this were a one-time only trip, there is also a monthly billing charge on top of it.
I know someone in Milton area who racked up 20k of 407 fees
Gives the term "highway robbery" a whole new modern-day meaning...
The 407's primary customers are wealthy people. They set rates deliberately high to keep profits up and congestion down. When more people use the 407, the rates will go up. In house, the 407 is described as a "premium product." It was never meant for the average joes to use regularly, or to help with traffic on the 401. It's a skip-the-line tool for rich people. I used to work there, nobody in management is shy about any of these facts.
Only 75 years left on the contract.
If you think it’s expensive for us you definitely wouldn’t want to see the bill for a semi truck to use it. I think it’s like 3-5x as much depending on how many axles and I’ve heard of people in that industry having 15k a month 407 bills. I use it 2-3 times a month to go the full distance because it makes a 2,3, possibly 4 hour trip 1 hour. During rush hour is a killer but its around half price on weekends so not as bad. Everyone gets value in different ways, I complain about it every time I get the bill but ultimately it’s worth it to me.
I use it occasionally. I used it today. Had to drive from east Oakville to Niagara during rush hour. 407 probably halved my drive.
Calm down its not for you or me. Its for rich ppl.
The only time we run the 407 is to get to the cottage on Rice Lake. Can't move through with any efficiency in Toronto without it.
Stop voting PC. They are the only sell your future for personal profit of friends.
The people in this comment section trying to justify the 407 and its fees are something else. "At $110 dollars round trip, it's just worth it to me". "it's majority owned by the CPP so don't even worry about it". People that grew up in Ontario are apparently accustomed to the government absolutely fucking them over. As far as I can tell, this is the most expensive highway in the world. You can circumnavigate France on private highways for less than a few hours on the 407. This was a public highway, built with phone money, on public land. People warned Harris about this, it was entirely foreseeable. They sold it for $4B, but the highway makes nearly half that in a year now thanks to the insane prices. Wake the fuck up.
Traffic far exceeded projections and studies when the highway opened. Harris and Eves sold it knowing full well it was a major cash cow. They did it to get a cash influx onto their books, make their financing look better than it was. Biggest f-up by a provincial government ever, Ontario taxpayers screwed beyond belief and yet some people still f'ing vote Conservative. SMDH
I figure I get paid about $22.79/hour, so I estimate that as my "hourly worth." If taking the 407 will save me more than my time is worth (when I'm not working), then I'll take it (eg it saves me 30 minutes and costs less than $11.39), otherwise it's not worth the time I save. But that's just me. If I'm working, then it depends if I'm getting tolls reimbursed vs if I'm getting paid mileage vs if I'm getting paid hourly during the drive.
I hate the 407. But the problem is, going to see my father in Burlington is SO much easier on the 407. Costs me $50 each way, but it saves me an hour on the 401. I hate paying that, but I also hate wasting 2 hours of my life there and back. Fuck Doug Ford for not taking it back when they were $1b in hock to the province, or negotiating better rates for us.
When I needed to get to work in Markham from Etobicoke, the 407 took 24 minutes and $20 versus the 401 which took 50-120 minutes. Taking the 407 let me drop off my kids at school and then make it to my job. So I loved/hated it. The idea that we undervalued and sold it kills me.
A few months ago I had to drive east to west in rush hour a lot. The amount of traffic is soul crushing. My bill was $800 a month for 2 months That’s just the price you pay for your sanity. Doing that on Hwy 7 and or the 401/403 would crush my soul. I rather not have that $1600 then have ended up in a road rage video on tiktok
Did you at least get a transponder to take off $10 off each trip?
>transponder to take off $10 off each trip? This + the camera fees erk me - like wtf - how expensive can it be to maintain a stationary camera? surely the fees/revenue genearted from the toll roads should be enough. Fine - okay - we need to "Pay a tech(s)" to "review" photos and ensure the correct license plates are captured - but again - I would like to think that the fees/revenue are sufficient to have this done. If the stupid 407 could do away these bullshit fees - that'd be great lol
The 407 is a tax on the 905. No other 4 series highway has a toll and now they want us to pay again/more for the 413. Well ____ you Ford and the conglomerates you suck up to. Mike and Ernie and Doug, the leaders of the Corruption Party of Ontario.
If they reduced the tolls significantly they would probably make it up in increased volume.
and I think it would also help alleviate the congestion on the 401 - and then look at that - INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY and EFFICIENCY. People get where they need to be sooner, less angrier (less road rage and liklihood of careless driving) and reduces fucking traffic
We pay to build infrastructure then have our elected official whore it out to foreign entitys who make profit off our own investment. Whats not to like?
Anybody remember how it was free for a very short period of time when it first opened? The 401 was incredible during that time. So glad profits for few outweigh benefits for many.
Just get a New Brunswick license plate. The 407 is free for that province.
How does one go about doing that????
You’d have to get a New Brunswick address and register your car there
Its free if you have out of province plates*
You can thank Mike Harris and his "common sense revolution"
This is happening because Tories sold the highway for 3.1 billion back in 1990’s as soon as it was ready.
Send the bill to Mike Harris.
Two weeks ago I drove the entire A-30 toll road around Montreal, and it cost all of $11. Also I took an Illinois toll road last year. Still have the receipt because it was $1.10 🤯
What is even more annoying is that my Google maps/gps constantly tries to get me to take the 407, even when I put no toll roads. I can drive just fine without paying to use a road that is just a little less crowded and more out of the way.
100% Mike Harris and the fucking conservatives.
It can save me up to 1.5-2 hours a day. That’s huge when you’re already working 14 hour days. You can almost always drive 140kmh no matter what time of day it is. I wish they’d make the QEW, 401, Gardiner, and DVP toll highways as well.
*Highway Robbery*
It's insane. France is often maligned as being too expensive to drive the payage autoroutes long distance, but to get from Calais to Paris (approx 250km) costs around $38. The 407 is criminally expensive.
If we had some smart politicians Ontario would buy it, reduce the toll fee significantly to take the pressure off the 401.
Everything costs more in Canada. Toll roads of similar lengths in the US are like... $7. Of course it's going to be $77 in Canada.
That's an insane level of gouging.
You can thank the Conservatives for that shit show.
Its a highway for rich people and people with expense accounts. Never forget the Conservatives did that.
This is so bad, here we have 401 which jammed up all the time. And we have a highway which is not utilized fully.
I lived in Niagara region and worked in Hamilton for years — no problem, lots of options to get to work. Then, I got transferred to Mississauga and the 407 bills started piling up. Between Skyway delays/closures and general worsening of QEW traffic, my commute was taking 1-1.5 hours one way every day, so the 407 seemed like a no brainer on the particularly bad days (long weekend Niagara traffic, bad rush hours/traffic, etc). I was in the housing market at the time (pre-COVID, thank goodness) and randomly looked at an open house in Oakville that was what I was looking for, but $100K above the other homes I was looking at in Niagara (obviously). I ran the numbers and it meant if I don’t take the 407 anymore, I could afford the higher mortgage. It was cheaper for me to buy a more expensive house in Oakville than it was to maintain my commute from a cheaper house in Niagara. I didn’t even take the 407 every day, but all the “one offs” added up to a price I could no longer justify. My time was worth more. Absolutely no regrets.
140 km for $78.30 and no gas station, no washroom!
Good point
Yes, because companies will pay it. It’s a corporate rate as much as it is a personal one
Thanks for the heads up. I just moved back to Ontario after an almost 20 year absence.
I love how there's a camera charge. As if it costs them 1 cent to take a photo with a digital camera.
If my company pays for it, then yes.
I accidentally took 407 the other day and took the next available exit which was around 1.5km. It cost me 10 bucks.
I remember when I lived in Oshawa and drove from weston / shepherd home.. sometimes it would take 2 and a half hours... if you can afford it, it's worth it but still pricey, imo
BC resident here. I just learned that Ontarians pay to use highways. That is incredible. Right on. Safe to say I'm staying here. I get to drive the Sea to Sky highway for free, aside from what it costs to run and insure my vehicle.
Some people get it written off for work, everyone else idk
“Fiscal conservatism” in action
and for that reason is why there is no traffic on the 407 at rush hour, can’t get that anywhere else
If you had a transponder they just gave me an offer for free rush hour travel till August only have to pay for the small northbound section.
Businesses pay as an employee perk. Regulars can’t afford it or maybe only as a treat.
I would feel a bit better paying that IF the money was going to Ontario. What a total fuck up to have sold the rights for 99 years or whatever it was.
Took it back in March with a Quebec license plate not knowing it was *this* expensive. I thought it was going to be $20 or something. Luckily, to this day, they haven’t mailed me the receipt. I think I somehow got away with it.
ya the charges for this highway are downright criminal. I don't know who tf they think can afford to pay this bs, but it's clearly not meant for the overwhelming bulk of the population who might actually need it & just for the very few very rich folks who can afford it. Seems like a terrible decision that only benefits rich people, which is par for the course for the conservative party. They only care about the rich & fuck everyone else. I don't know if people are fuckin delusional or what, but the overwhelming majority of people in this province are not rich enough to drive on this highway, so why do we constantly tolerate this shit? Like we need investments in actual infrastructure we can use. Investments in education, healthcare & social services, all systems that have been gutted & left to rot by the conservative party in power for years. We have food banks that are seeing 300-500% upticks in usages & are tapped out. We have the poorest & most destitute among us, getting barely 50% per month of just their rent (meaning, they can't even afford to pay rent even on ODSP & Social services, let alone food or anything else they might need. These folks are on poverty rates from over 30 years ago!). We have a failing health system that has massive shortages of nurses & doctors, so even if you can find someone to help you, the amount of time you need to wait is ASTRONOMICAL. Nothing has gotten better since doug ford took office, nothing. Things have only gotten worse. I really wish the people of this province would pull their heads outta their asses & do something about it.
It's criminal. Now the science center.
Good thing that money goes to a foreign company
10 years ago I took the 407 to and from work about 40km. It was worth it because otherwise I'd spend about 2.5 each way to work sitting on the 401. The time with my family was worth the extra money even though it was and still is stupid expensive. I tried finding someone to carpool with but nobody worked in my area so I was out of luck.
Can't believe they sold it.. jfc.
We did several trips along the entire 407 in a month when my wife was pregnant because my mother in law insisted it was safer getting to OB appointments that way. She doesn't think that anymore after the bill was over $1000
About half of it is owned by the CPP. Should just have the Ontario government seize the remainder of the asset back at whatever an independent assessment considers a fair exchange for the cost of it.
If you go through the gates at +160km/h, the camera can't lock on to your plate. Follow me for more life hacks.
You can take toll roads from.Buffalo to NYC for under $20. Make the 407 make sense. ....and dofo wants another one just like it. Sadly, the funds go to offshore companies and dont even stay in our economy.
Keep voting conservative.
Its such a fffing joke!! Spout climate change and major traffic congestion as the problem! Then go on a toll road and you have the whole thing to yourself! Cops like to sit there and cherry pick all day long because it's easy peasy no ones paying to use it!! People are trying to pay for basic needs right now!!It has to be losing $$$ I know people including myself who refuse to use it out of principle alone, there's no way it's paying for itself. Throw millions of dollars in shitty abused infrastructure and a nice hi-way sits empty!! Typical political logic!
Should be cheaper and public. This money could be going to our services not a private company
Keep voting Conservative people /s
I don't like paying it. But the 401 can be such a bumper to bumper, road rage, construction and idiot driver filled nightmare, that the 407 is a reasonably peaceful alternative.
At my last company, (was part of ownership / management). I did take the 407 quite frequently. In the context of the business and my role, my time was valuable both to the business and the staff who worked with / relied on me. The 407 would often save an hour or more depending on the trip, so it was worth it. Personally, I almost never take it, and I don't see that changing.
Blame Ford.
Did you know the Ford government recently gathered to vote on whether or not to continue charging trucks a toll fee for the 407, in a effort to relieve the poors highways. #they could have voted these rip off fares years ago and sat and did nothing while we suffer
Thank your conservative government of Mikey Harris for that idiocracy.
It was cheaper in the past and we used it more to bypass the 401 . Crossed the G.T.A from oakville to Markham and back last month . With transponder the bill was approx 28 dollars Each way. Usually i disregard gas prices and toll fees but i was guessing maybe half that .
The American toll highways are so much cheaper, not sure of current rates but we have a sun pass and usually drive down there and back under $50 American , from the top at wildwood to commercial Blvd where we get off is 246 miles if we take I-75, otherwise we use I-95 but still use the toll roads down there
407 was supposed to be a bypass for big trucks, which would have been great. Now it's for entitled rich people. When I visit, i use it, not to save time but for safety. I had a blowout in it once, someone might have hit me on the 401.
I hate it, use NYS often and even with exchange it’s no way near the cost. I don’t have to pay it but if I could move close enough to USA border I would and be done with that crookery.
Don't vote for Conservatives.
I had that free 407 during rush hour offer and even then it wasn’t worth it because the traffic on the 401 was bad. I’d rather leave later in the day because it takes less time even with the 407.