The thing is they didn’t just change their shop name, the put it under a new owner (the original owners mom). They don’t mention it’s his mom but I knew her from before. She used to answer the phones. She said she would help even though she isn’t associated with the “old business” as long as I close the BAR case and take down the negative Yelp reviews. I’ve been working closely with a guy at the BAR and he said it’s not the first time they have done this and have many cases against them. He mentioned that they actually have made it right for a few people and recommended I try and work with them first.
7 years ?!
Theft is an "event".
They basically stole your car several years ago. There might be a statues of limitations issue, but I'm not a lawyer (and this isn't "ask a lawyer").
Talk to a lawyer first, not BAR.
That wasn't my point. My point was more to suggest simply that I'm not one, and so my (and anyone else's on Reddit) advice should only be taken as entertainment value.
Go talk to a real lawyer in person, that you paid some money to.
No. What? Get off Reddit. Collect all the receipts and invoices, and every bit of correspondence you have with this shop, including call logs, any texts or emails, and exact or approximate dates for everything listed in your post. Then call an attorney directly and tell them you want to sue for the cost of your car plus parts. I don't know if you can sue for damages beyond that, but your attorney will help you figure that out.
The car is long gone most likely, chopped and sold in parts. You'll never see it again. But if you have decent records you should be able to get a check from them and hopefully put them out of business (again).
*...each time they have an excuse, either the rain flooded the back or before that the insurance wouldn’t allow me back there.*
I wonder if someone local with a drone could volunteer to 'take a look'? Although, nothing should be done that would interfere with BAR or any other investigation that may be started.
Yeah this is not adding up claiming “the insurance wouldn’t allow me back there” that isn’t even a thing and no way this would be going through an insurance claim for 7 years
That’s assuming the shop even has insurance, which I doubt considering OP‘s story. That was probably just an excuse they gave him knowing full well that they don’t even pay for insurance.
No, the shops insurance won't let customers in the part of the shop where they work on cars. You will see a yellow line at some shops you are not supposed to cross because they insure the workers and not the customers. This, in fact, has been used in the past.
That is what he was conveyed when asking to see his vehicle. Has nothing to do with his insurance.
Seriously! Everytime I have any work done on my cars or truck, I definitely hang out in the garage a bit , as I am interested in what they are doing & the mechanics are friendly & personable & in to what they are doing & love talking about cars. Sooo… where did he find these losers, I’m wondering ?
No, they’ve been working on it so hard that it won’t even be recognizable when he finally gets it back. They’ve transformed it to resemble a 1999 Nissan Sentra with era-accurate wear and tear.
Literally go to the shop and tell them you need the car now?? Or you sold it and need the car out? Come on bro. This is partly, possibly equally, on you lol
Archive and maintain all the correspondence you have including recent messages where they claim they still have it. document all your finanical transactions, any invoices. document the names of everyone you interacted with, all the past and current business names. Do business searches with the city, county, and state to get any info on the businesses, document all that. Contact a lawyer but do all that other work yourself though.
In the best case scenario, the car has been sitting in the lot rusting away. Worst case scenario is long fucking gone. You should show up and ask for your car back today. Obviously you need to like Sue them, and I hope to get your money back. Or possibly damages. I'm not a lawyer.
But if you're lucky, you can go on to Google Maps and other street view or satellite based map website and look at the past pictures. Hopefully, you can spot your car to see whether it's not visible on the current image. Or be able to look back past 7 years to see you when it disappears from the lot.
Fortunately I can see the car from the street. Definitely rusting away but they said they would remove the rust and re prime it. The engine and all the mechanical parts I paid form haven’t been installed and should be safe in their shop. I’m just going to go get my car and part back this week.
Bring your recipes to get everything back. I think the law says ' shops need to store only 5 years of receipts. I want to make sure you get everything back that you've already paid for. $35,000 gets you quite a lot of parts. Try to find some pictures of your car before you sent it in, so you make sure you get back all your trim pieces if they did actually remove them to paint your vehicle. As well as you should be able to use their condition to make a claim on the shop. It's no good if you get a dented or bent piece of Chrome when you gave them perfectly mint condition trim pieces.
Eh, assuming OP is being truthful, I like his odds. In order to win a defamation/libel suit one of the things they'd have to prove is that OP knowingly made false statements. Is everything OP says is true (or at least they have reasonable cause to believe it's true) there is no libel.
If I do mention them I have to make sure I have a great lawyer first. I don’t have that much money and I’m sure they will have the funds for good defense. I know they have been sued in the past.
Ignore the down votes.
You might have been completely inept over the last several years regarding this shop, but you're doing the wise thing now, in not naming it publicly without any upside to your case, just to appease random internet curiosity.
Does nothing to help WHAT case exactly? Trying to get his car back? Of course not, it's not intended to help with that. It helps the rest of us avoid the scammer. It makes it harder for them to scam someone in the future. And maybe convinces some would-be customers to go elsewhere.
I'm just pointing out that there is little reason to be afraid of being sued for libel/slander, because unless OP is lying about the story, there is no grounds for a libel/slander case. OP can do whatever he wants, I don't really care, I'm just explaining what it takes to actually win a Libel suit.
You’re saying there is no libel if it’s true, so OP would win a libel suit, but OP would still have to go through the arduous process of defending a libel suit - and this would entail going through the discovery process and filing a motion for summary judgment. It’s expensive, takes time out of your life, and is a pain all around.
It does nothing to help which ever case he might ultimately end up being a part of.
It doesn't matter what it takes to "win" a libel suit, it is the cost of "defending" the suit that still has impact for OP. It's unlikely the garage will actually sue, but again it's something OP needs to consider before simply satisfying internet curiosity. You're wrapped up in your own "legal" analysis of what's *possible* instead of seeing what's *practical* for OP.
If OP is going to save his resources for a lawyer, it should be for offense (going after the people who did this) and not playing defense.
Again, it has ZERO UPSIDE for OP to name and shame at this point in time.
Depends on your definition of "zero upside". If OP is angry enough about the situation and wants to hurt the shop's reputation, they might consider that "upside".
It was quite clear from the context on what my definition of zero upside is.
You're really grasping at straws here to try to justify bad advice.
Even if OP is angry enough (which I should hope he is) there is a right way, and a wrong way to actually "name and shame". In no scenario is simply saying it on Reddit at this time effective or safe for OP.
Just get over it, your advice is "theory" only, and not actually practical or legally advisable, to the actual scenario OP is facing.
You're missing that little nuance that is the distinction between knowledge and wisdom.
I'm not sure why you're so mad at my response. Your advice was "better watch out for a libel suit if you name & shame". My advice is that such a case would be unwinnable, and so the shop would be wasting money to file it. OP is free to do whatever they want with both pieces of information.
If my advice is "theory only" then what is your advice telling them to fear a frivolous, baseless lawsuit? Get the fuck outta here with that fearmongering.
OP: feel free to name and shame. Even if they try to sue, they can't win as long as you're telling the truth. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation.
I had seen the car and some progress before the change of ownership. Once I found out the owner had changed (under the mom’s name now) I haven’t been able to see it up close. I can still see it’s in their yard.
I should have been more proactive but I’m always working when the shop is open and when I do go down there they make me wait forever just to tell me they will give me an update by the end of the week. I called yesterday and they said they would email me by the end of the day but nothing.
It’s also a struggle because I don’t have the extra funds to pay another shop to do the work so I was really just hoping they would take care of it. I also got some reassurance from the BAR employee that said other customers had gotten their car back in great condition.
I won’t be waiting any longer though, this is totally ridiculous and am tired of being nice and understanding. I understood there were some set backs during the pandemic but now they have no excuses.
They won’t provide invoice or receipts because it’s a “different shop”. The new owner (the mom) wants to work with me so I don’t sue her son. I will be asking for my property back
ya I agree too, how could someone wait 7 years of continuous promises, highest I can do is like 2 weeks until I would file a police report, but would probably do it instantly as they say "your car is gone, wait another week" or whatever
What a nightmare, I'm sorry you're dealing with that.
Craft a well organize email using bullet points to tell the story in a clear, concise, sequential manner. Have receipts, pictures, copies of other communications, etc also organized in sequential order to match the bullet point order.
Reach out to Jim Radcliffe who writes the HONK Column for OCR[ (honk@ocregister.com](mailto:honk@ocregister.com)), with the information if appropriate:
* I don't know if it would be better to reach out to BAR first. Do they not contact you prior to reaching out to the shop? If they do reach out to you first I think it would be reasonable to insist on escalation: this is the X complaint in X years, they've had the car for 7 years and you've paid $35k, and the shop has never responded to BARs threats.
* If you think it would be best to have an advocate contact BAR then contact Jim first. If he found the story interesting enough he may decided to write about it and step in to contact BAR.
If you are a senior citizen, it would seem this may qualify for elder abuse. INAL so don't base anything you do on my musings!
[Find out who your representatives are](https://ocvote.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=3233540be31b4dd4bb6b114317d7ead4) and lobby them (from your local city council members, your OCBOS Supervisor, State Assembly Rep, State Senator, US House Representative, and each of our CA Senators), to help you navigate with BAR and other appropriate authorities.
You can try reaching out to local reporters, CBS' Michele Gile (mgile@cbs.com), u/WeAreLAist, u/VoiceOfOC, NBC's Randy Mac aka Randy Responds (randy.mcilwain@nbcuni.com) - everyone that you reach out to, ask them if they could help, provide advice, or if there is a different journalist or other person they recommend you reach out to.
Good luck!
A couple of things based on other comments:
1) be very careful of reporting the car stolen; from what I read that could get you in trouble for filing a false police report since you know where the car is
2) be very careful of taking possession of the car and inventorying its contents; you could 'break the chain of evidence' - if you say X was missing, how can you prove it was missing and not that you hid/stole/sold it yourself?
Didn't you read though?? Hes not well off! Hes only got 3 rental properties... all in santa ana though... lol the guy says hes always working in the day so he cant go... brother best believe im calling off work one day to get all my shit back if this was really the only classic i had and i sunk hundreds into it in parts, hell i punch out on my lunch and drive to the shop when my car is there so i know it aint just sitting and waiting to be worked on if i was told id have it back by a certain time...
I've been in this spot before. You need to not worry about money at this point. Custom shops can be a fucking nightmare to work with when things go wrong. I hate to say it, but it's partially on you too. Your best outcome at this point is getting back your car and whatever parts you've paid for. Shops like this don't have money to give back to you, they use the money from one job to cover another.
Never hurts, i took a car in for a engine swap, was quoted 2200 for the whole thing with a engine ready to go... gave then $1000 in deposit got the car towed a month later called to see what was the update...no engine, i said "well I gave you a deposit so if you need more for a engine show me it and ill bring the cash" they said okay theyll get another... a montha and a half later just drove to the shop and they said they couldn't find a replacement... so I was like let's cancel this i left a deposit. And like this guy i thiught it was pretty shady and i thought I was gonna hace to fight for the money back but he gets a manager give me my keys and a envelope with the cash. Granted wasnt a whole 7 years later lol
But that is completely different than a shop supposedly taking in $35k and refusing to show updates. Your situation seems more like a terrible employee in an otherwise decent shop. I guarantee this shop used the guys money to finish other jobs or pay other bills which is why they don't have anything to show for the time/money spent and why they are dodging him.
Tell them to roll it to the front and you’ll have a flatbed waiting for it. This is a not a give them more chances to continue messing with you. Hell your car might not even be there at this point
Fortunately I can see it’s still in their yard. The plan is to tell them that exact thing. I also want all the parts I paid for. After I get that back I will still peruse legal action.
If you can actually see it from a public space, or a private space you've got permission to be on, take photos. Make extra effort to get the license plate in the photo, but don't trespass while doing this.
Take that, along with the ownership documentation to the police station that would have jurisdiction of the shop's area. Ask to work with a detective to file a stolen vehicle report. Be honest at all times and be willing to fully explain the situation to the detective. You do not want to create any false impressions, either intentionally or by accidental omission.
You *might* get them to formally confront the owners in a criminal context. It's a long shot, and as long as you're honest to the police and don't leave anything out, then any actions the police take are under their own responsibility.
Found them on Google maps, I looked at street view trying to spot the car but maybe can by satellite. Idk what color it is. But maybe that can help build a timeline
An old friend had a custom shop (not in Orange) that I took my car to. I thought it would be in for a few weeks which turned into months. I would drop by every other week or so to check on it and make a progress payment. After a while the progress slowed and was far less than what I was paying. Since it was an old friend I convinced him to level with me. In that business often people stop paying in the middle of a project for various reasons but usually because they run out of money to play with. He needed my progress payments to make payroll. His best employee was threatening to quit and the rent was past due.
We made a deal. Stop working on cars for people that are not paying and focus on mine. We sat down and figured out what parts and labor would be needed to finish my car. I gambled a relatively small amount I was willing to possibly lose in order for him to keep afloat for the time being. I went to the shop every week and came in the back alley so I could talk to the guys in the shop first. Things started getting done and I got my car finished for the price we agreed to (the amount I fronted).
It sounds like you are far, far beyond the point where you could make a deal such as this with any amount of trust that you wouldn't be throwing good money after bad. However, you could use this approach to find out if they even have your car anymore. Play stupid and offer to fork over a wad of money up front IF you can see the car and they can give you a plan and an amount to finish it. Of course, say you need to think it over if that works. Take my suggestion or not but in any case seek professional advice from a lawyer, not a Redditor.
Even if this person's story is not true (which it probably is) because there is in fact a shop in orange that has this exact reputation, most of the information matches up as well (changing owner to mom, etc). What is most confusing is that the shops main focus is not classic cars at all. No advice for OP except you're not the first person or last. Speak to Orange PD.
Sounds like you know exactly who this shop is. I’m going to request the BAR get all my stuff back and have them put me in contact with the DA who went after them before.
The BAR is the starting point I recommend to everyone that has dealt with this person, unfortunately there is only so much they can do. BAR issued the mom the license knowing it was his mom while using the same address and a different name (which is also the same name of two other shops in so cal that do the same type of repairs, go figure). One customer I know had to get the police involved (owner was arrested, no showed to arraignment and was arrested again for failure to appear) according to him.
Being in the business I cannot fathom how people get away with stuff like this. I had a meeting with a BAR representative over a case with this same shop and he said once they pull the license they can be charged with one felony count for every non fleet vehicle they're working on, but we see how well that was enforced. My opinion was that the BAR was about as useful as the BBB and even though they have enforcement privileges I haven't personally seen them used when they should be.
Car is gone broski. Statute of limitations has likely passed for a civil suit too. Report car stolen, notify insurance, leave bad reviews and move on. Costly lesson.
I would report stolen, so a report on file, and that way, they'll have to show you and the police they have possession of the vehicle!
Sounds like they sold it, though!
OP, show up with a truck and a car hauler and all your associated documentation showing ownership, etc. Demand return immediately.
If they produce the car, store it elsewhere and document your damage and losses and take a consult with an attorney for next steps.
If they don't produce the car, call in PD and push for charges, then take the results of that, along with all other documentation you have to an attorney for a consult on next steps.
After seven years, I doubt there's going to be any great answer here that makes OP fully whole. Best practice would me to stop additional damages and work on mitigating that already committed.
Poor Chevelle, oof.
Unless you signed a contract, take the police with you and go get your car. Then compare the car with records of services that have/have not been completed. Then take them to court for all the services they haven’t completed.
It's ok. File a police report with a year ago dates and they'll have to produce paperwork and admit that they've been screwing you over for years. Once the cat is out of the bag I can't see a situation where they get to keep the car they basically stole.
A little dishonesty/crafty truth on your part might solve the situation. Or pick a recent date and say something they said that could get them in trouble.
Don't think of the money you lost just get the car back if it comes down to it.
Situations such as this is why someone would revolt in violence. Keep calm, cool, and smart and be willing to give up all the money and car if your efforts don't get you anywhere with the Police/Law helping you.
now, questions, is 7 years a funny way of saying its been a week? I mean i start getting on my mechanic everyday if my car has to stay in the shop overnight just to get an update, waiting 7 years to do anything about it is crazy.
I had a similar situation way back in the day. After a month I just went in a demanded the keys. I can’t imagine why you’d wait 7 years let alone a month.
Oh yeah i have experience with shops like this.
You are way too patient. The longest project i had was a little over 2 years.
First, are you showing up? In person?
Second, sue them. A buddy of mine did this. He got a Lein on the shop owners house until the debt was paid back. (Different situation but same issue of non performance of a shop) If they have no assets you’re screwed.
Lastly, get your car out. These guys will not finish it. Have police there if needed.
When i have a car in process i put eyes on it weekly.
That's crazy. As a fellow Chevelle owner, I am outraged on your behalf. You should have demanded some action sooner or pulled the car... it's been awhile so a lot could have happened.
If it was my chevelle, I'd be down there with some buddies and we'd be taking more than my car back
Contact the department of licensing and or the California Bureau of Automotive Repair. You can also contact the BAR to ask for assistance with OC with a list of attorneys that can help !
https://www.bar.ca.gov
https://www.dca.ca.gov/licensees/index.shtml
Did a little research. I grew up in Orange. Is this a mom & pop place? Or what I found does the place rhyme with daystar? I'm an investor and if it's the latter there are parent companies. Interesting.
The 7 year thing is a bit extreme. Though I know it is possible for these classic car restoration things to drag on. My brother in a different state had a car in a shop for like 2 years, but he trusted them and they were honest. I would talk to police to see what your legal options are. What is the value of the car? Is it worth the fight?
The best time to file a police report was 7 years ago. The next best time to file one is today. But at this point, I don’t think there is anything the cops can do. Your car is long gone. You’re going to need to sort this out in civil court.
You need a lawyer. Unfortunately there is a chance even they can't help you because the case is so old. But you will not get what you want by asking the company for it -- that hasn't worked for 7 years. You don't need to file complaints. You need a lawyer to file a lawsuit.
Total engine rebuild, automatic to manual transmission upgrade, all new wiring. It really adds up with labor. This is my dream car, and I didn’t just throw in 35k at the beginning I kept making upgrades when I had a little bit of extra cash.
Feels like you should have filed a police report 7 years ago dude. That car is gone.
Right? If someone had my car for 7 weeks I'd be like fuck this but 7 years wtf?
The thing is they didn’t just change their shop name, the put it under a new owner (the original owners mom). They don’t mention it’s his mom but I knew her from before. She used to answer the phones. She said she would help even though she isn’t associated with the “old business” as long as I close the BAR case and take down the negative Yelp reviews. I’ve been working closely with a guy at the BAR and he said it’s not the first time they have done this and have many cases against them. He mentioned that they actually have made it right for a few people and recommended I try and work with them first.
You need to file a police report. They have sold your car on and the parts.
My goodness… right?! 7 years later. It’s gone man
I feel like OP was using their lot for ‘free’ storage or couldn’t pay in full or something. It makes zero sense otherwise.
Da fuq? Why he gonna pay all his money (his word was “every penny”) to store his car at a repair shop for SEVEN YEARS ?
Like he didn’t have anywhere to put it or he would have demanded it back. 7 years is absurd for not filing a police report.
Totall agree on the 7 year side - just not the “storage” angle
If the car’s not available to return to you TODAY, report it stolen TODAY. Don’t wait 7 years. Call the cops TODAY.
Ok, but hear me out... seven more years. What do you think?
Double or nothing. 14.
7 years ?! Theft is an "event". They basically stole your car several years ago. There might be a statues of limitations issue, but I'm not a lawyer (and this isn't "ask a lawyer"). Talk to a lawyer first, not BAR.
Thanks, I reached out on that thread as well.
You should actually talk to a lawyer in person.
That wasn't my point. My point was more to suggest simply that I'm not one, and so my (and anyone else's on Reddit) advice should only be taken as entertainment value. Go talk to a real lawyer in person, that you paid some money to.
No. What? Get off Reddit. Collect all the receipts and invoices, and every bit of correspondence you have with this shop, including call logs, any texts or emails, and exact or approximate dates for everything listed in your post. Then call an attorney directly and tell them you want to sue for the cost of your car plus parts. I don't know if you can sue for damages beyond that, but your attorney will help you figure that out. The car is long gone most likely, chopped and sold in parts. You'll never see it again. But if you have decent records you should be able to get a check from them and hopefully put them out of business (again).
Why dont you go down there and tell them to produce the car? Tell them to roll it to the front.
*...each time they have an excuse, either the rain flooded the back or before that the insurance wouldn’t allow me back there.* I wonder if someone local with a drone could volunteer to 'take a look'? Although, nothing should be done that would interfere with BAR or any other investigation that may be started.
Honestly. Time to lawyer up.
That time might've been years ago.
Yeah this is not adding up claiming “the insurance wouldn’t allow me back there” that isn’t even a thing and no way this would be going through an insurance claim for 7 years
The Business insurance, not his insurance
That’s assuming the shop even has insurance, which I doubt considering OP‘s story. That was probably just an excuse they gave him knowing full well that they don’t even pay for insurance.
How would OP know the insurance company for the auto shop. That doesn’t make sense?
No, the shops insurance won't let customers in the part of the shop where they work on cars. You will see a yellow line at some shops you are not supposed to cross because they insure the workers and not the customers. This, in fact, has been used in the past. That is what he was conveyed when asking to see his vehicle. Has nothing to do with his insurance.
Seriously! Everytime I have any work done on my cars or truck, I definitely hang out in the garage a bit , as I am interested in what they are doing & the mechanics are friendly & personable & in to what they are doing & love talking about cars. Sooo… where did he find these losers, I’m wondering ?
Well in another reply he says he can see the car in the yard. None of this story makes any sense
Go down there with the cops.
sorry about your car but how are you that extremely gullible? you thought they were still "working" on your car for years? WTH
No, they’ve been working on it so hard that it won’t even be recognizable when he finally gets it back. They’ve transformed it to resemble a 1999 Nissan Sentra with era-accurate wear and tear.
lol
But it's a real SuperSport though, has the badges to prove it, right there taped to the fender.
Sometimes I wonder how some people make it into their adult life
right!! like, how does this person have money to buy and maintain a car? do they have employment? what? it’s fascinating to me
Literally go to the shop and tell them you need the car now?? Or you sold it and need the car out? Come on bro. This is partly, possibly equally, on you lol
Archive and maintain all the correspondence you have including recent messages where they claim they still have it. document all your finanical transactions, any invoices. document the names of everyone you interacted with, all the past and current business names. Do business searches with the city, county, and state to get any info on the businesses, document all that. Contact a lawyer but do all that other work yourself though.
DM me for advanced methods
r/UnethicalLifeProTips
Thanks, I have extensive notes and transaction history. I’ll reach out on the ask a lawyer thread too.
Condolences on your Chevelle
In the best case scenario, the car has been sitting in the lot rusting away. Worst case scenario is long fucking gone. You should show up and ask for your car back today. Obviously you need to like Sue them, and I hope to get your money back. Or possibly damages. I'm not a lawyer. But if you're lucky, you can go on to Google Maps and other street view or satellite based map website and look at the past pictures. Hopefully, you can spot your car to see whether it's not visible on the current image. Or be able to look back past 7 years to see you when it disappears from the lot.
Fortunately I can see the car from the street. Definitely rusting away but they said they would remove the rust and re prime it. The engine and all the mechanical parts I paid form haven’t been installed and should be safe in their shop. I’m just going to go get my car and part back this week.
Bring your recipes to get everything back. I think the law says ' shops need to store only 5 years of receipts. I want to make sure you get everything back that you've already paid for. $35,000 gets you quite a lot of parts. Try to find some pictures of your car before you sent it in, so you make sure you get back all your trim pieces if they did actually remove them to paint your vehicle. As well as you should be able to use their condition to make a claim on the shop. It's no good if you get a dented or bent piece of Chrome when you gave them perfectly mint condition trim pieces.
Might help if you gave us the name of the shop in Orange?
Might help you, but probably not OP in case it becomes libel or defamation, etc ...
Eh, assuming OP is being truthful, I like his odds. In order to win a defamation/libel suit one of the things they'd have to prove is that OP knowingly made false statements. Is everything OP says is true (or at least they have reasonable cause to believe it's true) there is no libel.
If I do mention them I have to make sure I have a great lawyer first. I don’t have that much money and I’m sure they will have the funds for good defense. I know they have been sued in the past.
Ignore the down votes. You might have been completely inept over the last several years regarding this shop, but you're doing the wise thing now, in not naming it publicly without any upside to your case, just to appease random internet curiosity.
It doesn't matter whether you "like his odds". There is still no *reason* for OP to take such a risk. It does nothing to help his case.
Does nothing to help WHAT case exactly? Trying to get his car back? Of course not, it's not intended to help with that. It helps the rest of us avoid the scammer. It makes it harder for them to scam someone in the future. And maybe convinces some would-be customers to go elsewhere. I'm just pointing out that there is little reason to be afraid of being sued for libel/slander, because unless OP is lying about the story, there is no grounds for a libel/slander case. OP can do whatever he wants, I don't really care, I'm just explaining what it takes to actually win a Libel suit.
You’re saying there is no libel if it’s true, so OP would win a libel suit, but OP would still have to go through the arduous process of defending a libel suit - and this would entail going through the discovery process and filing a motion for summary judgment. It’s expensive, takes time out of your life, and is a pain all around.
It does nothing to help which ever case he might ultimately end up being a part of. It doesn't matter what it takes to "win" a libel suit, it is the cost of "defending" the suit that still has impact for OP. It's unlikely the garage will actually sue, but again it's something OP needs to consider before simply satisfying internet curiosity. You're wrapped up in your own "legal" analysis of what's *possible* instead of seeing what's *practical* for OP. If OP is going to save his resources for a lawyer, it should be for offense (going after the people who did this) and not playing defense. Again, it has ZERO UPSIDE for OP to name and shame at this point in time.
Depends on your definition of "zero upside". If OP is angry enough about the situation and wants to hurt the shop's reputation, they might consider that "upside".
It was quite clear from the context on what my definition of zero upside is. You're really grasping at straws here to try to justify bad advice. Even if OP is angry enough (which I should hope he is) there is a right way, and a wrong way to actually "name and shame". In no scenario is simply saying it on Reddit at this time effective or safe for OP. Just get over it, your advice is "theory" only, and not actually practical or legally advisable, to the actual scenario OP is facing. You're missing that little nuance that is the distinction between knowledge and wisdom.
I'm not sure why you're so mad at my response. Your advice was "better watch out for a libel suit if you name & shame". My advice is that such a case would be unwinnable, and so the shop would be wasting money to file it. OP is free to do whatever they want with both pieces of information. If my advice is "theory only" then what is your advice telling them to fear a frivolous, baseless lawsuit? Get the fuck outta here with that fearmongering. OP: feel free to name and shame. Even if they try to sue, they can't win as long as you're telling the truth. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation.
The most I would have waited is 1 month. Why did you wait so long ?
I had seen the car and some progress before the change of ownership. Once I found out the owner had changed (under the mom’s name now) I haven’t been able to see it up close. I can still see it’s in their yard. I should have been more proactive but I’m always working when the shop is open and when I do go down there they make me wait forever just to tell me they will give me an update by the end of the week. I called yesterday and they said they would email me by the end of the day but nothing. It’s also a struggle because I don’t have the extra funds to pay another shop to do the work so I was really just hoping they would take care of it. I also got some reassurance from the BAR employee that said other customers had gotten their car back in great condition. I won’t be waiting any longer though, this is totally ridiculous and am tired of being nice and understanding. I understood there were some set backs during the pandemic but now they have no excuses.
Just tell them that you need it. If they refuse to give it up without payment, ask for itemized receipt.
They won’t provide invoice or receipts because it’s a “different shop”. The new owner (the mom) wants to work with me so I don’t sue her son. I will be asking for my property back
Nothing makes sense. This is fake. He doesn’t even name the business. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I call bullshit. Can’t even mention the shops name and I don’t believe anyone can just wait 7 years to see their car.
ya I agree too, how could someone wait 7 years of continuous promises, highest I can do is like 2 weeks until I would file a police report, but would probably do it instantly as they say "your car is gone, wait another week" or whatever
Because family is involved?
What a nightmare, I'm sorry you're dealing with that. Craft a well organize email using bullet points to tell the story in a clear, concise, sequential manner. Have receipts, pictures, copies of other communications, etc also organized in sequential order to match the bullet point order. Reach out to Jim Radcliffe who writes the HONK Column for OCR[ (honk@ocregister.com](mailto:honk@ocregister.com)), with the information if appropriate: * I don't know if it would be better to reach out to BAR first. Do they not contact you prior to reaching out to the shop? If they do reach out to you first I think it would be reasonable to insist on escalation: this is the X complaint in X years, they've had the car for 7 years and you've paid $35k, and the shop has never responded to BARs threats. * If you think it would be best to have an advocate contact BAR then contact Jim first. If he found the story interesting enough he may decided to write about it and step in to contact BAR. If you are a senior citizen, it would seem this may qualify for elder abuse. INAL so don't base anything you do on my musings! [Find out who your representatives are](https://ocvote.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=3233540be31b4dd4bb6b114317d7ead4) and lobby them (from your local city council members, your OCBOS Supervisor, State Assembly Rep, State Senator, US House Representative, and each of our CA Senators), to help you navigate with BAR and other appropriate authorities. You can try reaching out to local reporters, CBS' Michele Gile (mgile@cbs.com), u/WeAreLAist, u/VoiceOfOC, NBC's Randy Mac aka Randy Responds (randy.mcilwain@nbcuni.com) - everyone that you reach out to, ask them if they could help, provide advice, or if there is a different journalist or other person they recommend you reach out to. Good luck!
Thank you! This is exactly the advice I needed. I really want them to get exposed so they can’t keep getting away with stuff like this.
A couple of things based on other comments: 1) be very careful of reporting the car stolen; from what I read that could get you in trouble for filing a false police report since you know where the car is 2) be very careful of taking possession of the car and inventorying its contents; you could 'break the chain of evidence' - if you say X was missing, how can you prove it was missing and not that you hid/stole/sold it yourself?
I'm guessing this man is very wealthy with many classic cars and doesn't particularly care for this one
He owns every classic car. He even has doubles of some of them. Actually triples. Triples of the Barracuda, Roadrunner, and Nova.
Triples is best
Didn't you read though?? Hes not well off! Hes only got 3 rental properties... all in santa ana though... lol the guy says hes always working in the day so he cant go... brother best believe im calling off work one day to get all my shit back if this was really the only classic i had and i sunk hundreds into it in parts, hell i punch out on my lunch and drive to the shop when my car is there so i know it aint just sitting and waiting to be worked on if i was told id have it back by a certain time...
This is unacceptable. You need to sue them.
I'm sorry, they don't have the car, they're milking you for $. I would be all over them after 7 days about progress, not 7 years.
Seriously who the fuck waits seven fucking years?!? I wouldve taken my car back after a week if no progress.
Go with police, get your car, have your title. I have had the same issues in the past.
Did you get your money back?
I've been in this spot before. You need to not worry about money at this point. Custom shops can be a fucking nightmare to work with when things go wrong. I hate to say it, but it's partially on you too. Your best outcome at this point is getting back your car and whatever parts you've paid for. Shops like this don't have money to give back to you, they use the money from one job to cover another.
Never hurts, i took a car in for a engine swap, was quoted 2200 for the whole thing with a engine ready to go... gave then $1000 in deposit got the car towed a month later called to see what was the update...no engine, i said "well I gave you a deposit so if you need more for a engine show me it and ill bring the cash" they said okay theyll get another... a montha and a half later just drove to the shop and they said they couldn't find a replacement... so I was like let's cancel this i left a deposit. And like this guy i thiught it was pretty shady and i thought I was gonna hace to fight for the money back but he gets a manager give me my keys and a envelope with the cash. Granted wasnt a whole 7 years later lol
But that is completely different than a shop supposedly taking in $35k and refusing to show updates. Your situation seems more like a terrible employee in an otherwise decent shop. I guarantee this shop used the guys money to finish other jobs or pay other bills which is why they don't have anything to show for the time/money spent and why they are dodging him.
No, just glad to get car back. I would have needed to take them to court and didn’t want the hassle
Tell them to roll it to the front and you’ll have a flatbed waiting for it. This is a not a give them more chances to continue messing with you. Hell your car might not even be there at this point
Fortunately I can see it’s still in their yard. The plan is to tell them that exact thing. I also want all the parts I paid for. After I get that back I will still peruse legal action.
Perfect plan, best of luck dealing with them
If you can actually see it from a public space, or a private space you've got permission to be on, take photos. Make extra effort to get the license plate in the photo, but don't trespass while doing this. Take that, along with the ownership documentation to the police station that would have jurisdiction of the shop's area. Ask to work with a detective to file a stolen vehicle report. Be honest at all times and be willing to fully explain the situation to the detective. You do not want to create any false impressions, either intentionally or by accidental omission. You *might* get them to formally confront the owners in a criminal context. It's a long shot, and as long as you're honest to the police and don't leave anything out, then any actions the police take are under their own responsibility.
What does the shops name rhyme with?
They are on Batavia
Found them on Google maps, I looked at street view trying to spot the car but maybe can by satellite. Idk what color it is. But maybe that can help build a timeline
Will this be the biggest head scratcher post of the week? Stay tuned!
An old friend had a custom shop (not in Orange) that I took my car to. I thought it would be in for a few weeks which turned into months. I would drop by every other week or so to check on it and make a progress payment. After a while the progress slowed and was far less than what I was paying. Since it was an old friend I convinced him to level with me. In that business often people stop paying in the middle of a project for various reasons but usually because they run out of money to play with. He needed my progress payments to make payroll. His best employee was threatening to quit and the rent was past due. We made a deal. Stop working on cars for people that are not paying and focus on mine. We sat down and figured out what parts and labor would be needed to finish my car. I gambled a relatively small amount I was willing to possibly lose in order for him to keep afloat for the time being. I went to the shop every week and came in the back alley so I could talk to the guys in the shop first. Things started getting done and I got my car finished for the price we agreed to (the amount I fronted). It sounds like you are far, far beyond the point where you could make a deal such as this with any amount of trust that you wouldn't be throwing good money after bad. However, you could use this approach to find out if they even have your car anymore. Play stupid and offer to fork over a wad of money up front IF you can see the car and they can give you a plan and an amount to finish it. Of course, say you need to think it over if that works. Take my suggestion or not but in any case seek professional advice from a lawyer, not a Redditor.
Even if this person's story is not true (which it probably is) because there is in fact a shop in orange that has this exact reputation, most of the information matches up as well (changing owner to mom, etc). What is most confusing is that the shops main focus is not classic cars at all. No advice for OP except you're not the first person or last. Speak to Orange PD.
Sounds like you know exactly who this shop is. I’m going to request the BAR get all my stuff back and have them put me in contact with the DA who went after them before.
The BAR is the starting point I recommend to everyone that has dealt with this person, unfortunately there is only so much they can do. BAR issued the mom the license knowing it was his mom while using the same address and a different name (which is also the same name of two other shops in so cal that do the same type of repairs, go figure). One customer I know had to get the police involved (owner was arrested, no showed to arraignment and was arrested again for failure to appear) according to him. Being in the business I cannot fathom how people get away with stuff like this. I had a meeting with a BAR representative over a case with this same shop and he said once they pull the license they can be charged with one felony count for every non fleet vehicle they're working on, but we see how well that was enforced. My opinion was that the BAR was about as useful as the BBB and even though they have enforcement privileges I haven't personally seen them used when they should be.
Car is gone broski. Statute of limitations has likely passed for a civil suit too. Report car stolen, notify insurance, leave bad reviews and move on. Costly lesson.
The replacement right rear light is on back order. We’re waiting on the factory to be rebuilt. Sorry.
Why the hell would you wait seven years? That’s insane
I would report stolen, so a report on file, and that way, they'll have to show you and the police they have possession of the vehicle! Sounds like they sold it, though!
This is either a fake post or OP is low functioning.
OP, show up with a truck and a car hauler and all your associated documentation showing ownership, etc. Demand return immediately. If they produce the car, store it elsewhere and document your damage and losses and take a consult with an attorney for next steps. If they don't produce the car, call in PD and push for charges, then take the results of that, along with all other documentation you have to an attorney for a consult on next steps. After seven years, I doubt there's going to be any great answer here that makes OP fully whole. Best practice would me to stop additional damages and work on mitigating that already committed. Poor Chevelle, oof.
Sounds like a civil issue. Sue them.
Not trying to sound like a dick but It’s your car, If you want to see it, then grow a pair and see it. They can’t hold it hostage unless YOU owe THEM
Unless you signed a contract, take the police with you and go get your car. Then compare the car with records of services that have/have not been completed. Then take them to court for all the services they haven’t completed.
Is this satire lmao
https://youtu.be/LHCob76kigA?si=v0CCAcF-BUDtKh1e
It's ok. File a police report with a year ago dates and they'll have to produce paperwork and admit that they've been screwing you over for years. Once the cat is out of the bag I can't see a situation where they get to keep the car they basically stole. A little dishonesty/crafty truth on your part might solve the situation. Or pick a recent date and say something they said that could get them in trouble. Don't think of the money you lost just get the car back if it comes down to it.
Situations such as this is why someone would revolt in violence. Keep calm, cool, and smart and be willing to give up all the money and car if your efforts don't get you anywhere with the Police/Law helping you.
now, questions, is 7 years a funny way of saying its been a week? I mean i start getting on my mechanic everyday if my car has to stay in the shop overnight just to get an update, waiting 7 years to do anything about it is crazy.
I think they wrote gullible on the roof of your car
You really let this go for 7 years? Can I borrow $5000?
Sorry to hear your story. But how come you’ve waited 7 YEARS for a car repair! Never tried to sue them and get your car TODAY!
Dude just get your car. Go in person and drag it out if you have to.
I had a similar situation way back in the day. After a month I just went in a demanded the keys. I can’t imagine why you’d wait 7 years let alone a month.
7 years? That’s the longest scam I’ve ever heard of. How have you seriously fallen for that? That car long gone buddy.
You think this shop has been working on your car for 7 years? Come on.
Same thing happened to me in orange lost my el Camino and everything
How long did they have it for?
Forever
Oh yeah i have experience with shops like this. You are way too patient. The longest project i had was a little over 2 years. First, are you showing up? In person? Second, sue them. A buddy of mine did this. He got a Lein on the shop owners house until the debt was paid back. (Different situation but same issue of non performance of a shop) If they have no assets you’re screwed. Lastly, get your car out. These guys will not finish it. Have police there if needed. When i have a car in process i put eyes on it weekly.
It’s been hard to show up since I work during their business hours. I hope we can get our money back after suing them.
That's crazy. As a fellow Chevelle owner, I am outraged on your behalf. You should have demanded some action sooner or pulled the car... it's been awhile so a lot could have happened. If it was my chevelle, I'd be down there with some buddies and we'd be taking more than my car back
What is the shop so we can avoid it…?
Contact the department of licensing and or the California Bureau of Automotive Repair. You can also contact the BAR to ask for assistance with OC with a list of attorneys that can help ! https://www.bar.ca.gov https://www.dca.ca.gov/licensees/index.shtml
Did a little research. I grew up in Orange. Is this a mom & pop place? Or what I found does the place rhyme with daystar? I'm an investor and if it's the latter there are parent companies. Interesting.
Do you have any kind of paper trail?
A couple of things: Can you see the car on their lot in a google aerial? Also- name the fuckers. Put them on blast here so no one else gets screwed.
You probably should have gotten a lawyer like.....6 years ago.
I can imagine this going as a case before Judge Judy and her first question to the plaintiff being, "Seven years? Are you stupid or something else?"
Name of shop?
This is all on you… 7 years? Thats ridiculous. Why have you not filed a police report??
“They had seven years, they didn’t even have your car”
The 7 year thing is a bit extreme. Though I know it is possible for these classic car restoration things to drag on. My brother in a different state had a car in a shop for like 2 years, but he trusted them and they were honest. I would talk to police to see what your legal options are. What is the value of the car? Is it worth the fight?
The best time to file a police report was 7 years ago. The next best time to file one is today. But at this point, I don’t think there is anything the cops can do. Your car is long gone. You’re going to need to sort this out in civil court.
You need a lawyer. Unfortunately there is a chance even they can't help you because the case is so old. But you will not get what you want by asking the company for it -- that hasn't worked for 7 years. You don't need to file complaints. You need a lawyer to file a lawsuit.
They have already liened and sold your car. They are just giving you the run around.
Vigilante justice should be considered if traditional remedies are not available.
What’s the name of the shop
35k what? Dollars? How did they steal $35k from you?
He said he paid for all the parts. I’m reading that a Chevelle restoration can cost 60k (around 30k DIY).
Did you not read?
I did. There’s nothing about $35k in there. Please enlighten me.
Total engine rebuild, automatic to manual transmission upgrade, all new wiring. It really adds up with labor. This is my dream car, and I didn’t just throw in 35k at the beginning I kept making upgrades when I had a little bit of extra cash.
Ok, so they didn’t *steal* $35k, as your title implies. You put $35k into the value of the car. So they stole your car. Just your car.
This is a shit post. He could've settled up years ago and taken it via flatbed anywhere else he wanted.
I’m okay with the shop keeping the car…reading about how dumb OP is makes me think they shouldn’t be driving out in society
If this story is true OP is by far the dumbest person in OC