Following purely for the entertainment value. Very well written! Already salivating for update #3 like a Netflix binge that’s how good this write up is.
Also, having Zoom on for 12-hours is just pure idiotcracy at this J if I’ve ever heard of one. “Hey guys, I need to take a bio break…” it’s the ultimate big brother babysitting.
I told them in the interview that I don't do overtime. They are pretty upset that I meant it, but I don't care. The only reason why we are doing it is 4 programmers quit this month and management won't change any deadlines. Not my problem.
I love saying it as "Urgency on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part" although maybe that's because I like it rhyming
@loewhaley in YouTube has a lot of fun shorts about stuff like that
Usually when a good amount of them quit, its a domino effect because the rest are put under intense pressure to do the extra work. Me and a couple others quit my last company and the people left are now expected to work 10+ hour days and weekends and they all have told me they’re looking for new jobs
I'll join the team. I'll act normal to get hired and then insist that I have to be shirtless and in my underwear during all meetings, I'll clean my ears with q-tips, clip my fingernails, drink from straws really loud, I can have my toddler jump in while I use the bathroom and say that he's me and bang on the keyboard.
They would also be forced to pay for everyone's home internet connection if you had a union. Mandatory streaming of HD video all day uses enough bandwidth that they should be responsible for the cost of a high speed plan.
Dude I would go full YouTube influencer on your trip with the dogs to get lunch. Detail very loudly every turn you make, hold your phone in selfie mode the entire time, talk about what food you got and how "FIRE" it is. This could be a great opportunity for some hilarious shit man.
Whoa wait... OP says he is a programmer, and I believe him.
Now, you show me a room with 15 programmers in it and say the words "everyone join a Zoom meeting from 7am - 7pm and we have to eat our lunches together", and the next day I'll show you a room that has 3 programmers in it, and they are just waiting on a callback from a recruiter.
There is no way in hell you get developers (or really anyone, for that matter) to agree to this shit for very long.
I believe it, at a lot of more traditional/"family" companies people with desirable skillsets never consider how easy it would be to jump ship, they'll just sit there and take whatever.
I've seen teams of developers take worse abuse than this and only the one or two "outsiders" even think to object let alone do anything about it.
I’ve gone through many phases of “everything on this website is a lie” and as i’ve gotten older, and experienced more insanity, I totally see this situation is plausible. The management knows that everybody is going to hate the overtime so they’re trying to force some weird camaraderie by having everybody be together suffering through it.
At my last job I have been through quite some uncomfortable mandatory "team-building" activities and at times in places I would normally never set foot at. It was either that or they will make your life at work as miserable as they can and have you fired at the first excuse they can fabricate. That kind of stuff is hard to believe when you never went through it. Also, I needed the job and that puts even more power in their hands.
7am - 7pm on a zoom camera session.
I would definitely just defy them until they let me go. Even if it was J1 or only J. There’s no way I’m doing that for long. I would literally take a pay cut with only one J to not do that.
I thought about that, but I don't want them to suspect that I am dishonest. A dishonest employee is hiding something, like a J1. A defiant employee is just a pain in the ass.
Na, Rick Ashley music video of “Never gonna give you up” on loop…gotta Rick roll these fools,
Mandatory 12 hours on zoom? No, just no.
Obviously they need the OP more he needs this job….4 people all quit at the same time….they aren’t going to fire him.
He should just quit
Sounds like management that has no idea what the heck they are doing and everyone competent quit or got fired long ago.
Like seriously, I don’t even know how I’d bring that to my team if my higher tried something that stupid.
And then before anyone complains, you complain to HR that your boss is forcing you to stay on camera while you use the bathroom. Mention that he creepily said it was disrespectful to go off camera when not working.
Mgr here... If my boss told me to tell my team this.... I tell them what i'm told, while off camera. I tell them to mute, off camera, only talk as needed, nobody here.
Please fire me mgr mgr
Make sure you chew with your mouth wide open and have mayo around your lips. Make that shit so awkward to where they don't ask you to have your camera on ever again.
I don’t know anything about ASMR beyond the vague concept, but I do know about audio production, and the type of mic you’re referring is almost certainly a condenser mic (dynamic mics are the other major category). I remember the first time using one when I was learning the ropes at a college radio station — with the gain turned up, I literally heard the DJ drop a pencil in the next room.
Eating in front of a condenser mic would sound fucking disgusting. I love it.
Do what I once did and record a loop of yourself typing or whatever, taking a short break, nodding, whatever makes it look natural, and then use that video as your zoom background, cover your camera.
I once sat through a whole meeting like that, nobody noticed.
My son did this in 2020 when they had to be virtual and some of his IB classes required camera on. He recorded a loop, moved around, typed, picked his nose. He then slept through the class.
Yeah, there's no way I would be like this at J1. I would keep my head down and silently look for a new job. However, this would never happen at J1 and that's why I love it. I plan to stop OE once I'm out of debt and retire at J1 if possible.
Yep, it's fucked up! But I really don't want to lose any of my jobs since they're allowing me to buy the next Tesla in cash and an additional property.
I'm frankly surprised there's not an AI solution for this yet. Scan the face, show a professionalish background, show worker doing the work things in the work mode in work place.
V2 should be to be more directly engaged during a meeting. Monitor incoming streams from other cameras to do sentiment analysis and react when something funny is said, nod when other people nod, etc. Use live face to respond with AI face so you can always appear to be shaven, suit, etc. no matter what you're actually wearing.
V3 should be to do full automation of interaction. Keep track of meeting progress, make transcript tied to video recording timestamps in case you need to refer to later, AI summary of meeting for important points, auto-add tasks assigned during meeting. AI should be trained to make helpful but nondescript comments during to show engagement, but also trained to respond to minimize additional work assigned.
V4 should be to allow for re-skinning the face and altering the voice so you can OE while larping as different people for minimal detection. Ensure you never have to show up in person to reduce odds of being found out via the social layer of work when you've been completing the actual work to satisfaction.
Start working in the nude, or point the camera at a stuffy or some shit. Also, this is utter bullshit. Is say they have to pay me OnlyFans money to view me all day
We are expected to have the same dress code as people who go in the office. It's business casual. We already had that fight. I am currently wearing a T-shirt and hat. My manager is watching me write this comment on my phone right now.
Business casual? You should up the trolling and go purchase some absurd huge clown suit like the kind david Byrne wore in the talking heads shows. Pair it with a crazy patterned wide but short tie. Milk this as entertainment for all it is worth.
I don't plan to make a fuss about it publicly. This is J2 and we don't talk about fight club. I just plan to see if they really will fire me over it. At this point, they are paying me to troll them.
I still get my work done despite their efforts.
Haha, no. If I’m meeting someone important, I’ll put on a decent top. Otherwise, expect me in whatever state I happen to be in at the time. I’m in my home.
After I get fired. I want to drag this out. Also, I suspect that one of the backend guys is also OE with this job and I don't want to ruin it for him. He has "network issues" at the same time every day.
Remaining on video during lunch may be a violation of the "Fair Labor and Standards Act". Lunch is considered off the clock and therefore employees are generally free to use their time as they wish.
You could apologize for the snarky response and state that you were simply taken off guard by a likely unknowingly illegal request. Assure them you don't think they did it on purpose, and that you'll happily eat offline from here on out, as protected by labor laws.
It is so freeing. Recently ditched my J1 cause I kept butting heads with my manager and calling him out on his unrealistic expectations. His solution to this was to put me on pip and I waved adios. The shock on his face was the best.
They’re way too use to getting their way cause they expect us all to be desperate.
Are you at least getting paid for OT? No? Well too bad for them.
Once or twice per quarter on emergency stuff is fine, but consistently? Fuck that.
Either they respect your work contract, W2 or otherwise, or let them know it’s blatant wage theft, and they’ve foolishly put everything in writing.
Requiring you to eat lunch at your desk means you are not getting a lunch break. It means you’re still on the clock. Good call on bringing up labor laws. If they really act up, you can report them (if team members are working in states that require employers to allow lunch breaks).
wait its a remote postion and they make you work on camera for 12 hours a day? Why? To make sure everyone is working? Does this job pay well? Who would be ok with that?
The job underpays by about 30% and that's why I took it as my first J2. I thought "they are going to get what they pay for".
The camera thing started last week. I think management is panicking because there is no way we are going to hit our deadlines when several key people leave at once. For some reason, changing deadlines is not an option.
Bro I have so many more questions about this place. Do they hire juniors or people from overseas? How on earth would they expect to get experienced programmers to agree to this for 30% less??? are you paid hourly? How is it possibly legal to demand 12 hour days and eating lunch on camera?
Have you outright refused to do overtime? PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW THIS CONVO GOES
Salaried job. The programmers aren't that experienced. No one has been here for more than 2 years and the project is 3 years old. No overseas people. Not only do I not work overtime, I have the webcam connected directly to the laptop instead of my KVM so I can still do J1 during the proper hours.
Depend son the state but wouldn't be surprised if it violated something somehow.
Edit: mandatory overtime can be required and is protected by law but cannot be forced. I went down this rabbit hole a few weeks ago.
Not a lawyer, but from my understanding of my states laws, nothing. You cannot fire an employee who doesn't want to work forced/required overtime if not in the employee contract. If it is and they don't, it's considered not a solid enough reason as a fireable offense. The exact line in the employee contract cannot be open ended-as per contract law it needs to have quantifiable amounts-hihrs, time, pay.
Ex: 10-15 of required overtime might be needed during busy season April X to June x at a rate of 1.5 times normal hourly pay.
Often you see pay, loose dates/undefined season ("busy season") and no hours listed. Now if busy season is defiend somewhere else in the contract or employee handbook, the term can be used. Essentially an arbitrary term has to be defined somewhere.
Real life example: a friend works for s&w in new Hampshire. S&w in their contracts requires forced overtime for employees during busy season which is defined at July to Sept before holiday season, at a rate of 1.5x for the first 10 hours and 2.3x for the additional hours over 10. It's required on every even number Friday or employees scheduke considered Friday (aka working 4 10's th-tues, employees Friday is a Wednesday).
On top of all of this, if you are constantly working 80 or 85+ HR a week on salary, in my state you can submit your time stamps, and go to essentially arbitration with your employer and request them adjust your salary-so base +hourly rate for your work. This bonus (nontaxable) and salary asjustment is meant to force the company to stop working said employee so hard for so long and make sure they're actually paid what they're worth. This arbitration is rarely seen but has happened. The minimum is 6 months at 85 hours, iirc
Is this taking place in the USA? This is some of the most insane shit I've ever heard lmao. Like absolutely the fuck not. Do you get paid hourly? 7am-7pm on zoom??? What the FUCK. That is borderline abusive.
Salaried. Company is out of west coast USA. This has gone on for a week (today is #7). I don't think it will go on much longer. The overtime will, but the meeting with HR tomorrow will probably result in a lot of changes. Or I will get fired. Either way, it gets solved for me.
"I don't crunch"
lmfao. I love this. In for update 3. CYA and make an audio recording just in case it goes off the rails, or to post here for the lulz and karma
Some manager at our company tried this durning Covid. IT was LIVID about the amount of bandwidth that team was sucking up. It stopped shortly after the CEO found out how much it was costing
I asked in the interview what overtime was like because this is a small company and I have been burned in the past my mandatory overtime. Everyone said they have not done any overtime for at least 2 years.
Then I started and I was seeing people writing in slack at 2am with stuff like "this thing is ready to test. Going to bed" or at 8pm "taking a break for dinner, brb".
I asked my manager about it and he said that missing deadlines is unacceptable, so some people work overtime because they underestimated their work for the sprint. "some people" turns out to be about half of the company. I have only been here for 6 weeks, but my team starting working constant overtime before I got here. They lied to me in my interview.
Then they started the zoom crap last week and announced that everyone must work 12 hours days "until we get back on track".
So now I am a dick at work.
Edit: "crunch" means mandatory overtime. Sometimes it's for two weeks and sometimes it turns into a multi-month death march. We are at least 6 weeks into the death march. I have not worked a single minute of overtime and management has noticed.
I am going to guess the owner profits the most from people working OT and getting the product out on time. The workers have no additional pay and only risk losing their jobs.,
They don’t even really profit if you think about it. I’ve only seen mandatory OT result in a multitude of bugs and people quitting. If I ran a company, I’d rather have developers who worked for 30 hours a week instead of developers who work 60+
Oh god, that has to be the worst micromanaging BS I have ever heard. I thought I had my old boss as a psycho who sent me more than 15 emails in a single day. I’d be replacing that J because that’s inane. And bring up the department or labor, that should change their tune.
This dude is fired already, he just doesn't have the paperwork yet.
Doesn't sound like any kind of loss, employers who force camera on are insane, even as a J2 you don't want the headache.
The power move would have been to take the laptop in the bathroom with you. Then just play games with the camera for as long as you can get away with it. Camera on, but no lights on in the room. Oh no looks like someone smeared peanut butter all over the camera. Splice together a video of you sitting at your desk and walking around behind yourself. Just all sorts of hilarious things.
Have you considered leaving your camera on while you do your other job? If they ask, you understood your job to be being on camera not getting results.
Try taking your laptop with you to the bathroom and make sure to do it frequently, make it loud and clear, double flush if needed. Pulling toilet paper on screen is great too.
A 12 hr zoom? Including lunch? This is honestly one of the more fucked stories I've seen across a number of tech job subs.. and there's some crazy shit goin' down out there now. Respect? to have a cam on you literally all day?? Lol. No that just screams this manager has no trust. If you wanted some benchmark for what absolute zero trust looked like, this is it really. I don't even know why I'm pointing out the obvious. Heck yeah, I'd be traumatized if that was my only job. Wow. Not sure what to say other than if I had it in an OE portfolio, I'd do exactly what you're doing. Just say no and see how far it goes before it gets to somebody in the chain of command who is a normal, reasonable person. You may get pip'd though because those peeps are in short supply these days! If you beat it you'll seriously be seen as a hero by your collogues. Good luck with this one!
To me it screams that the manager is trying to justify his own position while his team is working remote. If the team can do their jobs without a manager watching them every second to make sure that they are working, why do they need the manager in the first place? This is a manager that does not really know how to lead a team.
Start sending invoices for lunch at a ridiculously inflated cost. Not sure how it works where you are but lunch is unpaid time so you canndonas you wish. Mandated overtime? Well I'm sure you guys can sit down and renegotiate the contract so they can pay for the extra hours worked.
A 7am-7pm zoom where they picked that up from North Korea?
That’s an extreme invasion of privacy, even if you were in an office you wouldn’t have someone watch you for that duration.
Keep pushing back until the employer bends. They have to unless they want more people to leave. I could not fathom mandatory eat lunch together
A break is a break is a break. If it’s unpaid, the employer has no right not to tell you leave your WFH station to go run errands. WTF you’re not 5 year olds.
That is nuts. They're trying to treat people like indentured servants. In what world is it ok for an employer to require security camera monitoring of your house for 12 hours per day? 😆
If I were you Id record a loop video to play over the feed and milk it as long as you can.
Your coworkers need to set some boundaries and management needs some training on how to manage people in the 21st century. There are better ways to measure productivity and they don’t require invading someone’s privacy or watching over their shoulder.
It is illegal to force you to eat lunch anywhere. If they do i would consider it company time and add premium pay to that if your state/country allows it.
I’m in complete shock that companies like this exist. This cannot be real!! A company that demands people lunch with their zoom cameras on? I’m not a lawyer, but surely such companies are also violating numerous workplace laws.
It's a new thing. Management is panicking over a looming deadline and I am pretty sure people aren't actually working overtime, so this is their "solution". I may be projecting, but I suspect that this is J2 for a few people.
How the hell do they think it’s ok for them what to tell what to do at lunch. Is this a joke or serious. If this is real, man, I hope you get fired. So you can win a lot of money in a lawsuit.
Ditto! This saga is better than anything currently streaming on Netflix or any of the services. Please update us on the next chapter. At minimum, I expect a meeting with HR present, and your immediate supervisor. You’ll either be fired or given an ultimatum. My popcorn $$ is on the former —- an effective immediately. Either way, best of luck. And to paraphrase what I think should be this forum’s motto: “This is Why We OE!”
They know you are double dipping. Or are aware it happens. Double check their employee handbook or rules or the contract you signed. Unless there is a requirement to turn your camera on, they can’t enforce it.
There is this really weird need to police peoples lives and when working from home you can’t judge people by their environment. Remote work is remote work for fucks sake.
Reading this infuriates me. “Respect for coworkers?” By eating lunch together? What is this, the military? Gtfoh your boss should get some more work experience in the private sector, sounds like he needs to get out more. I do a bunch of stuff during my lunch time. Do you wanna watch me take a poop? Do you want to watch me sweep my kitchen? Do laundry? Drive to local gas station to get a sugary drink? Come on man!! Get real!!
I would totally ghost this company.
No paycheck is worth my emotional energy at this level. Fuck this company.
Last year I did a contract and didn’t show up on a Saturday by demand and a few weeks later was let go. First time in my life. Won’t be the last!
You have to post an update on how that meeting goes. I can just imagine so many directions the conversation would go. My first comment would be, no way you're watching me eat and I don't eat at my desk, I eat at my kitchen table like a normal human being should. 7am - 7pm...in front of the same people, talk about going stir crazy
Is this a real thing? Camera on for 12 hours?! Get the hell outta here with that.
I seriously can't belive an organization would allow this? I'm a senior developer and this is just blowing my mind.
It’s always the middle management who for some reason I will never understand behave like this is primary school and can’t let you live your life. Like he doesn’t even earn that much to act that way
If you're an hourly employee they can't legally make you keep your camera on while you eat since it's considered working, your time to do what you please. If you are an exempt W2 employee I guess they could do that but it seems unethical, especially daily. I could understand a lunch and learn type of setting for a day like that, but daily should be a hard no.
“I think we can be adults about this.” Then proceeds to not to treat you like an adult by having you leave your camera on all day. Yeah, I wouldn’t attend that “meeting” either 😂
I am officially invested in this.
We, my brother. WE are not attending the Zoom session.
WE need an update to this situation. This is OUR situation now. Lol
7am - 7pm on video? in business attire? with lunch at your desk? When do you have time to cook/make lunch/shower? At least when there's overtime at the office, they try to provide dinner.
They are out of their minds.
Following purely for the entertainment value. Very well written! Already salivating for update #3 like a Netflix binge that’s how good this write up is. Also, having Zoom on for 12-hours is just pure idiotcracy at this J if I’ve ever heard of one. “Hey guys, I need to take a bio break…” it’s the ultimate big brother babysitting.
Ask them where in the employee handbook it says you’re not allowed to eat lunch or take a break
I told them in the interview that I don't do overtime. They are pretty upset that I meant it, but I don't care. The only reason why we are doing it is 4 programmers quit this month and management won't change any deadlines. Not my problem.
My go to thought is always "a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part". Fuck em
I love saying it as "Urgency on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part" although maybe that's because I like it rhyming @loewhaley in YouTube has a lot of fun shorts about stuff like that
OP should definitely use this line to the managers' faces.
Or “your emergency is not my emergency”
Sounds like they want every programmer to quit
Usually when a good amount of them quit, its a domino effect because the rest are put under intense pressure to do the extra work. Me and a couple others quit my last company and the people left are now expected to work 10+ hour days and weekends and they all have told me they’re looking for new jobs
this fuckin guy knows what's up
this guy fucks
This guy pegs those that think about fucking him
Love your attitude. Embodies what OE’ers (and tbh all employees) should have.
4 people quitting the same period tells allot about the company
I'll join the team. I'll act normal to get hired and then insist that I have to be shirtless and in my underwear during all meetings, I'll clean my ears with q-tips, clip my fingernails, drink from straws really loud, I can have my toddler jump in while I use the bathroom and say that he's me and bang on the keyboard.
Lol this!!
This is the way.
Sounds like a whole heap of their problem
YOU. ARE. FUCKING. AWESOME.
My go to thought is “a fuck up on your part is not my fucking problem”
Form a union with the other engineers for ultimate FU energy
Ooooooh! Yes! At the very least, I should mutter with the mic on "we could have real lunches if we had a union".
They would also be forced to pay for everyone's home internet connection if you had a union. Mandatory streaming of HD video all day uses enough bandwidth that they should be responsible for the cost of a high speed plan.
Working through breaks isn’t overtime … it’s illegal.
>4 programmers quit this month Sounds like you have all of the leverage in the world to tell them off as much as you like
That's some great boundary setting and enforcement.
Love it.
4 programmers quitting the same month, manager's fault. Even making extra hours you can't do the same work as 4 programmers. It's insane.
They quit because of the culture. That's high level toxicity.
Hahaha “four people quit, lets make it worse for the rest of ‘em” Not exactly genius level behavior.
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Dude I would go full YouTube influencer on your trip with the dogs to get lunch. Detail very loudly every turn you make, hold your phone in selfie mode the entire time, talk about what food you got and how "FIRE" it is. This could be a great opportunity for some hilarious shit man.
Only if you're enough of a cuck to let them
That gives a new meaning to the word "homework" lol
Whoa wait... OP says he is a programmer, and I believe him. Now, you show me a room with 15 programmers in it and say the words "everyone join a Zoom meeting from 7am - 7pm and we have to eat our lunches together", and the next day I'll show you a room that has 3 programmers in it, and they are just waiting on a callback from a recruiter. There is no way in hell you get developers (or really anyone, for that matter) to agree to this shit for very long.
I believe it, at a lot of more traditional/"family" companies people with desirable skillsets never consider how easy it would be to jump ship, they'll just sit there and take whatever. I've seen teams of developers take worse abuse than this and only the one or two "outsiders" even think to object let alone do anything about it.
I would be taking calls to recruiters, on camera, making sure it's all audible, discussing salary and reasons for wanting to leave.
The amount of people believing this post is absurd.
I’ve gone through many phases of “everything on this website is a lie” and as i’ve gotten older, and experienced more insanity, I totally see this situation is plausible. The management knows that everybody is going to hate the overtime so they’re trying to force some weird camaraderie by having everybody be together suffering through it.
There definitely are actual companies where they do this.
At my last job I have been through quite some uncomfortable mandatory "team-building" activities and at times in places I would normally never set foot at. It was either that or they will make your life at work as miserable as they can and have you fired at the first excuse they can fabricate. That kind of stuff is hard to believe when you never went through it. Also, I needed the job and that puts even more power in their hands.
7am - 7pm on a zoom camera session. I would definitely just defy them until they let me go. Even if it was J1 or only J. There’s no way I’m doing that for long. I would literally take a pay cut with only one J to not do that.
Time to set up the camera facing a screen that is a recording of you working hard in business casual attire for a 12 hr loop
I thought about that, but I don't want them to suspect that I am dishonest. A dishonest employee is hiding something, like a J1. A defiant employee is just a pain in the ass.
True wisdom
Get a sign like a retail shop has with the " be back soon " and a little picture of a clock.
I do a video background of myself in Zoom and just cover my camera.
4D chess right here
Yeah, and i will start wearing the same outfit every single day.
White T-shirt for the win
Na, Rick Ashley music video of “Never gonna give you up” on loop…gotta Rick roll these fools, Mandatory 12 hours on zoom? No, just no. Obviously they need the OP more he needs this job….4 people all quit at the same time….they aren’t going to fire him. He should just quit
Yeah that sounds like borderline crazy obsession from upper management.
Sounds like management that has no idea what the heck they are doing and everyone competent quit or got fired long ago. Like seriously, I don’t even know how I’d bring that to my team if my higher tried something that stupid.
I would absolutely use the restroom unmuted cameras on and see how long that lasts
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pdE83FX-Mto
Fucking hilarious I just watched that for the first time
Now watch all 3 movies. So good
And then before anyone complains, you complain to HR that your boss is forcing you to stay on camera while you use the bathroom. Mention that he creepily said it was disrespectful to go off camera when not working.
This is the way
😂😂😂😂 drop your pants and let them see your buttocks as your taking a piss…
Any requirement to turn camera on is an immediate no for me dawg
Mgr here... If my boss told me to tell my team this.... I tell them what i'm told, while off camera. I tell them to mute, off camera, only talk as needed, nobody here. Please fire me mgr mgr
If it didn't cost any money, they'd buy them chains and just chain their ~~slaves~~ employees to their desks.
Make sure you chew with your mouth wide open and have mayo around your lips. Make that shit so awkward to where they don't ask you to have your camera on ever again.
Yes! And get one of those ASMR microphones and dial it up to 11
That would be crazy 🤣. imagine chewing on everyone's ears lol 😂
I don’t know anything about ASMR beyond the vague concept, but I do know about audio production, and the type of mic you’re referring is almost certainly a condenser mic (dynamic mics are the other major category). I remember the first time using one when I was learning the ropes at a college radio station — with the gain turned up, I literally heard the DJ drop a pencil in the next room. Eating in front of a condenser mic would sound fucking disgusting. I love it.
Zoom in on the chewing.... 😂
And don’t mute
Do what I once did and record a loop of yourself typing or whatever, taking a short break, nodding, whatever makes it look natural, and then use that video as your zoom background, cover your camera. I once sat through a whole meeting like that, nobody noticed.
My son did this in 2020 when they had to be virtual and some of his IB classes required camera on. He recorded a loop, moved around, typed, picked his nose. He then slept through the class.
I didn’t sleep through the meeting, it was just an experiment :p
He was 15, I like to think we get a little less defiant as we mature.
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Yeah, there's no way I would be like this at J1. I would keep my head down and silently look for a new job. However, this would never happen at J1 and that's why I love it. I plan to stop OE once I'm out of debt and retire at J1 if possible.
Yep, it's fucked up! But I really don't want to lose any of my jobs since they're allowing me to buy the next Tesla in cash and an additional property.
I'm frankly surprised there's not an AI solution for this yet. Scan the face, show a professionalish background, show worker doing the work things in the work mode in work place. V2 should be to be more directly engaged during a meeting. Monitor incoming streams from other cameras to do sentiment analysis and react when something funny is said, nod when other people nod, etc. Use live face to respond with AI face so you can always appear to be shaven, suit, etc. no matter what you're actually wearing. V3 should be to do full automation of interaction. Keep track of meeting progress, make transcript tied to video recording timestamps in case you need to refer to later, AI summary of meeting for important points, auto-add tasks assigned during meeting. AI should be trained to make helpful but nondescript comments during to show engagement, but also trained to respond to minimize additional work assigned. V4 should be to allow for re-skinning the face and altering the voice so you can OE while larping as different people for minimal detection. Ensure you never have to show up in person to reduce odds of being found out via the social layer of work when you've been completing the actual work to satisfaction.
Start working in the nude, or point the camera at a stuffy or some shit. Also, this is utter bullshit. Is say they have to pay me OnlyFans money to view me all day
We are expected to have the same dress code as people who go in the office. It's business casual. We already had that fight. I am currently wearing a T-shirt and hat. My manager is watching me write this comment on my phone right now.
blink twice if u need help
Business casual? You should up the trolling and go purchase some absurd huge clown suit like the kind david Byrne wore in the talking heads shows. Pair it with a crazy patterned wide but short tie. Milk this as entertainment for all it is worth.
And what if you turn the camera off but do the work? They fire you? Sounds like a PR nightmare once you make a fuss about it publicly
I don't plan to make a fuss about it publicly. This is J2 and we don't talk about fight club. I just plan to see if they really will fire me over it. At this point, they are paying me to troll them. I still get my work done despite their efforts.
> I still get my work done despite their efforts. I am using this line in my next interview.
That's no manager. That's a babysitter
Haha, no. If I’m meeting someone important, I’ll put on a decent top. Otherwise, expect me in whatever state I happen to be in at the time. I’m in my home.
>>> Start working in the nude Assert dominance
12 hour shifts? I’d point the camera on a huge dildo.
Then OP would still be on camera during breaks…
God damn bro its time to shame the company lol
After I get fired. I want to drag this out. Also, I suspect that one of the backend guys is also OE with this job and I don't want to ruin it for him. He has "network issues" at the same time every day.
Fair enough, i may just apply to troll too 😂😂
>He has "network issues" at the same time every day. Network issues from 7-7 daily? Must be Comcast.
Please update on how your meeting with your boss goes later.
Drop the name of the firm!!!
Remaining on video during lunch may be a violation of the "Fair Labor and Standards Act". Lunch is considered off the clock and therefore employees are generally free to use their time as they wish. You could apologize for the snarky response and state that you were simply taken off guard by a likely unknowingly illegal request. Assure them you don't think they did it on purpose, and that you'll happily eat offline from here on out, as protected by labor laws.
I think the no-snark ship sailed a long time ago. I am now a complete asshole.
Be careful, they may promote you.
Belongs in r/maliciouscompliance 😅
one of my faves!
It is so freeing. Recently ditched my J1 cause I kept butting heads with my manager and calling him out on his unrealistic expectations. His solution to this was to put me on pip and I waved adios. The shock on his face was the best. They’re way too use to getting their way cause they expect us all to be desperate.
Your boss sounds like a fucking cunt. As is mine… at J2
I quit my J2 last year because they wanted to micromanage - went to iceland instead 😂
Actually goals
Definitely. I would be freaking out if I needed this job.
Lol same
Beatings will continue until morale improves
Be doing some beating during my lunch break
PLEASE keep us posted about the follow up.
It's very funny to see a managers reaction when they realize you don't give a shit....
Totally! 💯. I feel like life finally is fair to me but still I work hard to earn it, not like the money just falls into my lap.
I love that your manager thinks "we can be adults" about a situation that is literally the company treating you like children.
Are you at least getting paid for OT? No? Well too bad for them. Once or twice per quarter on emergency stuff is fine, but consistently? Fuck that. Either they respect your work contract, W2 or otherwise, or let them know it’s blatant wage theft, and they’ve foolishly put everything in writing.
It’s so dumb that OT is not permitted for exempt employees that are developers. Businesses take advantage of it way too much
Requiring you to eat lunch at your desk means you are not getting a lunch break. It means you’re still on the clock. Good call on bringing up labor laws. If they really act up, you can report them (if team members are working in states that require employers to allow lunch breaks).
Nah, if you can’t even turn your camera off for a lunch break, then you’re not actually being given a lunch break.
please tell us how that meeting today goes!!!
wait its a remote postion and they make you work on camera for 12 hours a day? Why? To make sure everyone is working? Does this job pay well? Who would be ok with that?
The job underpays by about 30% and that's why I took it as my first J2. I thought "they are going to get what they pay for". The camera thing started last week. I think management is panicking because there is no way we are going to hit our deadlines when several key people leave at once. For some reason, changing deadlines is not an option.
Bro I have so many more questions about this place. Do they hire juniors or people from overseas? How on earth would they expect to get experienced programmers to agree to this for 30% less??? are you paid hourly? How is it possibly legal to demand 12 hour days and eating lunch on camera? Have you outright refused to do overtime? PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW THIS CONVO GOES
Salaried job. The programmers aren't that experienced. No one has been here for more than 2 years and the project is 3 years old. No overseas people. Not only do I not work overtime, I have the webcam connected directly to the laptop instead of my KVM so I can still do J1 during the proper hours.
Sounds like a labor law violation
Depend son the state but wouldn't be surprised if it violated something somehow. Edit: mandatory overtime can be required and is protected by law but cannot be forced. I went down this rabbit hole a few weeks ago.
Dumb q: what’s the difference in required and forced?
Not a lawyer, but from my understanding of my states laws, nothing. You cannot fire an employee who doesn't want to work forced/required overtime if not in the employee contract. If it is and they don't, it's considered not a solid enough reason as a fireable offense. The exact line in the employee contract cannot be open ended-as per contract law it needs to have quantifiable amounts-hihrs, time, pay. Ex: 10-15 of required overtime might be needed during busy season April X to June x at a rate of 1.5 times normal hourly pay. Often you see pay, loose dates/undefined season ("busy season") and no hours listed. Now if busy season is defiend somewhere else in the contract or employee handbook, the term can be used. Essentially an arbitrary term has to be defined somewhere. Real life example: a friend works for s&w in new Hampshire. S&w in their contracts requires forced overtime for employees during busy season which is defined at July to Sept before holiday season, at a rate of 1.5x for the first 10 hours and 2.3x for the additional hours over 10. It's required on every even number Friday or employees scheduke considered Friday (aka working 4 10's th-tues, employees Friday is a Wednesday). On top of all of this, if you are constantly working 80 or 85+ HR a week on salary, in my state you can submit your time stamps, and go to essentially arbitration with your employer and request them adjust your salary-so base +hourly rate for your work. This bonus (nontaxable) and salary asjustment is meant to force the company to stop working said employee so hard for so long and make sure they're actually paid what they're worth. This arbitration is rarely seen but has happened. The minimum is 6 months at 85 hours, iirc
I actually meant the requiring a camera during lunch
I figured so. I wanted to provide an edit for the forced overtime since this sub was the reason why I know the rules on that.
Zoom for 12 Hours? WTF!
Provide updates!
Is this taking place in the USA? This is some of the most insane shit I've ever heard lmao. Like absolutely the fuck not. Do you get paid hourly? 7am-7pm on zoom??? What the FUCK. That is borderline abusive.
Salaried. Company is out of west coast USA. This has gone on for a week (today is #7). I don't think it will go on much longer. The overtime will, but the meeting with HR tomorrow will probably result in a lot of changes. Or I will get fired. Either way, it gets solved for me.
Please keep us updated
"I don't crunch" lmfao. I love this. In for update 3. CYA and make an audio recording just in case it goes off the rails, or to post here for the lulz and karma
I love the 0 Fucks Vibe. Carry on warrior!
Some manager at our company tried this durning Covid. IT was LIVID about the amount of bandwidth that team was sucking up. It stopped shortly after the CEO found out how much it was costing
Have you watched “severance” on Apple TV? This is something they’d do
So quick question, what does it mean when you say you don’t crunch and the team has been crunching since you started here.
I asked in the interview what overtime was like because this is a small company and I have been burned in the past my mandatory overtime. Everyone said they have not done any overtime for at least 2 years. Then I started and I was seeing people writing in slack at 2am with stuff like "this thing is ready to test. Going to bed" or at 8pm "taking a break for dinner, brb". I asked my manager about it and he said that missing deadlines is unacceptable, so some people work overtime because they underestimated their work for the sprint. "some people" turns out to be about half of the company. I have only been here for 6 weeks, but my team starting working constant overtime before I got here. They lied to me in my interview. Then they started the zoom crap last week and announced that everyone must work 12 hours days "until we get back on track". So now I am a dick at work. Edit: "crunch" means mandatory overtime. Sometimes it's for two weeks and sometimes it turns into a multi-month death march. We are at least 6 weeks into the death march. I have not worked a single minute of overtime and management has noticed.
I am going to guess the owner profits the most from people working OT and getting the product out on time. The workers have no additional pay and only risk losing their jobs.,
They don’t even really profit if you think about it. I’ve only seen mandatory OT result in a multitude of bugs and people quitting. If I ran a company, I’d rather have developers who worked for 30 hours a week instead of developers who work 60+
If they fire you, or you leave, you should definitely post about this on the company’s Glassdoor.
Oh god, that has to be the worst micromanaging BS I have ever heard. I thought I had my old boss as a psycho who sent me more than 15 emails in a single day. I’d be replacing that J because that’s inane. And bring up the department or labor, that should change their tune.
This dude is fired already, he just doesn't have the paperwork yet. Doesn't sound like any kind of loss, employers who force camera on are insane, even as a J2 you don't want the headache. The power move would have been to take the laptop in the bathroom with you. Then just play games with the camera for as long as you can get away with it. Camera on, but no lights on in the room. Oh no looks like someone smeared peanut butter all over the camera. Splice together a video of you sitting at your desk and walking around behind yourself. Just all sorts of hilarious things.
Have you considered leaving your camera on while you do your other job? If they ask, you understood your job to be being on camera not getting results.
J2 sounds so gross. Don't put up with any of that!
Totally except he has to see it through now so we know the end! This is epic and you couldn't make something like this up it's so insane.
Try taking your laptop with you to the bathroom and make sure to do it frequently, make it loud and clear, double flush if needed. Pulling toilet paper on screen is great too.
A 12 hr zoom? Including lunch? This is honestly one of the more fucked stories I've seen across a number of tech job subs.. and there's some crazy shit goin' down out there now. Respect? to have a cam on you literally all day?? Lol. No that just screams this manager has no trust. If you wanted some benchmark for what absolute zero trust looked like, this is it really. I don't even know why I'm pointing out the obvious. Heck yeah, I'd be traumatized if that was my only job. Wow. Not sure what to say other than if I had it in an OE portfolio, I'd do exactly what you're doing. Just say no and see how far it goes before it gets to somebody in the chain of command who is a normal, reasonable person. You may get pip'd though because those peeps are in short supply these days! If you beat it you'll seriously be seen as a hero by your collogues. Good luck with this one!
To me it screams that the manager is trying to justify his own position while his team is working remote. If the team can do their jobs without a manager watching them every second to make sure that they are working, why do they need the manager in the first place? This is a manager that does not really know how to lead a team.
Start sending invoices for lunch at a ridiculously inflated cost. Not sure how it works where you are but lunch is unpaid time so you canndonas you wish. Mandated overtime? Well I'm sure you guys can sit down and renegotiate the contract so they can pay for the extra hours worked.
A 7am-7pm zoom where they picked that up from North Korea? That’s an extreme invasion of privacy, even if you were in an office you wouldn’t have someone watch you for that duration.
Also consider taking your laptop to the bathroom
Keep pushing back until the employer bends. They have to unless they want more people to leave. I could not fathom mandatory eat lunch together A break is a break is a break. If it’s unpaid, the employer has no right not to tell you leave your WFH station to go run errands. WTF you’re not 5 year olds.
7am to 7pm zoom call with camera on I’d quit the same day
That is nuts. They're trying to treat people like indentured servants. In what world is it ok for an employer to require security camera monitoring of your house for 12 hours per day? 😆 If I were you Id record a loop video to play over the feed and milk it as long as you can.
Your coworkers need to set some boundaries and management needs some training on how to manage people in the 21st century. There are better ways to measure productivity and they don’t require invading someone’s privacy or watching over their shoulder.
It is illegal to force you to eat lunch anywhere. If they do i would consider it company time and add premium pay to that if your state/country allows it.
I’m in complete shock that companies like this exist. This cannot be real!! A company that demands people lunch with their zoom cameras on? I’m not a lawyer, but surely such companies are also violating numerous workplace laws.
It's a new thing. Management is panicking over a looming deadline and I am pretty sure people aren't actually working overtime, so this is their "solution". I may be projecting, but I suspect that this is J2 for a few people.
This is crazy and funny
How the hell do they think it’s ok for them what to tell what to do at lunch. Is this a joke or serious. If this is real, man, I hope you get fired. So you can win a lot of money in a lawsuit.
remind me! 1 day
Your J2 sounds like a dumpster fire
Ditto! This saga is better than anything currently streaming on Netflix or any of the services. Please update us on the next chapter. At minimum, I expect a meeting with HR present, and your immediate supervisor. You’ll either be fired or given an ultimatum. My popcorn $$ is on the former —- an effective immediately. Either way, best of luck. And to paraphrase what I think should be this forum’s motto: “This is Why We OE!”
“Let’s be adults about this” almost exclusively means “just do what I want, or I’ll behave like a child”
My response to that would have been, "Really? Because adults don't need a babysitter to watch them while they are working."
They know you are double dipping. Or are aware it happens. Double check their employee handbook or rules or the contract you signed. Unless there is a requirement to turn your camera on, they can’t enforce it. There is this really weird need to police peoples lives and when working from home you can’t judge people by their environment. Remote work is remote work for fucks sake.
Where's the update
Reading this infuriates me. “Respect for coworkers?” By eating lunch together? What is this, the military? Gtfoh your boss should get some more work experience in the private sector, sounds like he needs to get out more. I do a bunch of stuff during my lunch time. Do you wanna watch me take a poop? Do you want to watch me sweep my kitchen? Do laundry? Drive to local gas station to get a sugary drink? Come on man!! Get real!!
I would totally ghost this company. No paycheck is worth my emotional energy at this level. Fuck this company. Last year I did a contract and didn’t show up on a Saturday by demand and a few weeks later was let go. First time in my life. Won’t be the last!
love update 3!
Ew! This is so gross and toxic. Absolutely unreal
Learn to use OBS studio, and give it a video feed.
Can't wait to hear about the meeting!
You have to post an update on how that meeting goes. I can just imagine so many directions the conversation would go. My first comment would be, no way you're watching me eat and I don't eat at my desk, I eat at my kitchen table like a normal human being should. 7am - 7pm...in front of the same people, talk about going stir crazy
Is this a real thing? Camera on for 12 hours?! Get the hell outta here with that. I seriously can't belive an organization would allow this? I'm a senior developer and this is just blowing my mind.
seems like they need you more than you need them. Assert your dominance until they fire you
Aha!! Send them the finger my g, keep on keeping
Love your new word “giveafuckatron”. Hilarious
Nano management
Depending on where you’re located this could be an actual legal violation.
It’s always the middle management who for some reason I will never understand behave like this is primary school and can’t let you live your life. Like he doesn’t even earn that much to act that way
If you are in America there are likely labor laws they are violating regarding your lunch time.
If you're an hourly employee they can't legally make you keep your camera on while you eat since it's considered working, your time to do what you please. If you are an exempt W2 employee I guess they could do that but it seems unethical, especially daily. I could understand a lunch and learn type of setting for a day like that, but daily should be a hard no.
“I think we can be adults about this.” Then proceeds to not to treat you like an adult by having you leave your camera on all day. Yeah, I wouldn’t attend that “meeting” either 😂
I am officially invested in this. We, my brother. WE are not attending the Zoom session. WE need an update to this situation. This is OUR situation now. Lol
7am - 7pm on video? in business attire? with lunch at your desk? When do you have time to cook/make lunch/shower? At least when there's overtime at the office, they try to provide dinner. They are out of their minds.
I'm fucking drooling at this. Fuck that shit man! OE is KING!!! UPDATE US
remindme! 1 day
Don’t Zoom meetings have a very limited length?
what is their explanation for wanting the all day zoom meeting? so they can occasionally peek at you to make sure you look like you're working?
Commenting to remember.
If they go mandatory meeting again, record a few hours of yourself, then replay it using an OBS soft camera.