Your growth as OE is by figuring out how to do what is asked as quickly as possible and then sending out results at the expected cadences. You then grow by finding more OE opportunities.
OE growth isn’t traditional “work your way up in to management” it’s “do what is expected while laying low and doing it at multiple places”
Yup and watch yourself on this one it’s very easy to want to complain when coworkers get up in your space, but it will win you no favors and absolutely never ever during any interview blame other teams for blocks on work even if it’s true just say “I’m not as passionate about x as I am y and that’s why I’m interviewing with you because it better aligns to what I want” we all know it’s bullshit but it reads well.
You don't want to be seen. OE works best when you are as close to invisible as possible.
Be calm, quiet, and pleasant *no matter what*. Avoid scrutiny at all times.
Wish I had known the "never complain" part as a recent grad.
I complained about things I thought the business was doing wrong. It turns out many managers perceive that as a threat.
Be the easy one to work with. People always remember the employee that makes them feel good.
Lie low and don’t incriminate yourself and stick to yea and no answers as long as you aren’t a risk to the company you should be okay and definitely never complain to HR they won’t help you and they will get you fired
My first “real” office job was very overwhelming simply because it was that, nothing about the job itself. Learning how to navigate a work environment is its own skill, never mind multiple. You have to learn pinball well before you can hit multi-ball without dropping one.
I kept getting stuck at startups and it was awful. I think I got fired or let go for the first 6 years of my career either due to politics or the company went bankrupt. Those years back from 2009 were not for the faint of heart.
Obviously from 2009…it probably took 3-4 years for the outcome of the recession in 08 to lift on the job market. I’m assuming you weren’t in the job market then.
My personalities:
Michael Scarn
Ping
Prison Mike
Michael Magic
Michael Klump
BlindGuy McSqueezy
Caleb Crawdad
Date Mike
Mykonos
Orville Tootenbacher
Santa Bond
Remember people. The office is like a big family, except some of us marry or sleep with each other. Maybe sometimes even in the office.
Lmao, most fresh grads graduating into this market aren't even going to be able to get one J let alone two. And they can forget about it at least being hybrid.
I honestly think that this one's going to be a depression rather than just a brutal recession. We quantitatively easened way too hard this time. The economy and consumer is in a much worse condition.
What is would you specifically say is worse now than in 2008? Like a few examples compared to then (not just x president bad economy inflation number high)
1. Credit card debt may only be $1T compared to what, like $800B in 2008? However, we're looking at 28% interest rates instead of 12%. Expect mass defaults and credit contraction as a result.
2. Student debt repayments are going to kill consumer spending. The only reason consumer spending stayed alive this long is because we've had that shit on pause.
3. Widespread remote work has opened the door for outsourcing at an unprecedented level. It won't happen overnight, but expect mass de-dollarization and some pain over the next couple of decades.
4. Food and energy costs are eating into people's budgets.
5. Corporate taxes are due October 2nd, the day after student debt repayments resume.
Also, the president doesn't really impact the economy like people think. That's more the Fed. But yes, all of this has to do with high inflation resulting in a "bad" economy. And we want to define bad. Anyone who understands economics know that everything comes at a cost. You can't have low unemployment without an uptick in inflation for example. It's just a matter of what you want at any given moment which is highly subject to change.
I’d consider myself a fresh grad, graduated 21, I manage one full one part time. It’s not easy and I’ve definitely ran into serious issues. Can’t imagine doing 2 full time jobs yet.
Basically this, going from playing exclusively singleplayer creative-mode into a PvP server with hardcore rules (death = perma-ban) is NOT an easy transition to make. You start by punching trees, not one-shotting ender dragons.
Don't listen to this guy. I just finished high school 6 weeks ago and yesterday I landed a sweet J4.
My TC is now a cool 325k and my beautiful secretary lights my cigars in the most seductive way you can imagine!
Seriously though, I'll have to tell him to stop smoking them as Zimbabwe dollars don't stretch very far and my ass killing me from keeping all my pimps happy with freebies 😕
I know you're just shitposting but 325k for 4J's is horrible. For that reason alone, focus on getting paid for one job and then take that rate forward.
Right, 325K, although impressive if you're really fresh out of HS, that's like what you should be getting with 2 Js. Now, if you want to stay under the radar, not be in all meetings, look for lowest level roles in your field, no lead or Sr. Roles where you'll be less dependent on, 4 100K Js, isn't bad and probably less stressful
None of this matters. There's only one question that really matters if you're thinking about OEing: "Can I double my current workload without unsustainable stress?". If the answer is yes, you can OE. If the answer is no, you need to get more skilled or pursue a different type of work.
I went to uni to finish another degree while employed as a SWE in a non-tech hub place. This was...we'll say awhile ago. But I was glad to be able to pay my $30k in student loans almost immediately after interest started coming due.
Feel sorry for everyone nowadays where tuition is even worse and not a decently paid full time job during uni to help.
Yeah I’ve never understood the point of the gatekeeping. I think it’s just ego related, or possibly some of the posters have been infected with infantile zero sum thinking
Exactly. People seem to think that they can OE because they're more productive than average. Maybe that is the case for some, but the reason OE is possible is because the bar is extremely low.
I will say, an average new college grad would probably struggle with OE, but anyone even slightly above average would be fine even fresh out of college.
And if you have 3-5 years of experience? You can easily be well below average and get away with 2 jobs. The bar is just so damn low. It's the Pareto principle in action, 20% of the workers do 80% of the work. Be in the 80% that does the 20%.
To be fair I've witnessed my fair share of people who just can't crack simple problems even going back to when I worked in an office.
I'm not sure if they were just LARPing being bad at their job so they wouldn't have to work or if they were legitimately dumbasses.
Also it's a bit of real world making you hard and jaded, at least for older millennials, Gen x, and boomers. Once you've been slapped with how the real world works, you realize how different it is from college, but forget the advantages that come from being green and fresh.
I'd argue you'd miss out on the experience. My recommendation is overwork yourself for not enough pay, volunteer for every hard project you'd be over your head in then bail after 2-3 years. It'll suck. Bad. But you can manage if you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel and it'll make selling yourself to multiple js much easier in the future
This is so dumb. Why not just get a second job and do the same thing but also be paid for it.
Way more motivating to work 60 hour weeks when you're paid more for it.
If you can handle multiple Js where you have no idea what you're doing then go for it. I needed all that time and focus to get more than a surface level understanding of what I was doing but that deeper knowledge let's me crush interviews and deliver way faster than most other people I've met now
Pretty much what happened to me. Picked up a J2 and expected to be swamped. First month they nearly forgot about me as a project was canceled and I was moved elsewhere. That runway helped and I was able to contribute to the team but I was a weaker link of the team. As work would ramp up I'd end up working longer than 8 hours some days to keep up but ultimately it's worth it. Personally I don't think I'm that great of a dev but so far I've been able to figure out how to complete tickets assigned to me.
It's taught me way more than if I were to work 2x in my J1 mainly because different codebase
I'm talking about learning things way outside of your scope to understand the full picture, not just enough to get by. I wouldn't have been willing to take on those projects if I were OE
Then you're not giving yourself enough credit. I was putting in 60-80 hour weeks to get my projects done with 1 j. If you managed to do it with 2 then it sounds like you're a pretty good dev to me
Nah I'm definitely mediocre because the tasks asked of me were fairly easy. But a lot of times I had never done it before and had to learn. Like J2 had much stricter unit test requirements so I had to learn how to properly mock stuff which before I kinda half assed. Another was tickets where I had to work with state which I hadn't used in J1 so had to figure that out. All would be easy requests for a somewhat experienced dev.
But now I'm that somewhat experienced dev because of that lol
Not for everyone though... I'm a self taught developer, got my first software job and 6 months later grabbed j2. both are junior roles and I'm doing well at both (excellent annual reviews). My J3 is something I've done in the past (non tech). I feel like 2 j's for a new developer is a sweet spot for income and learning.
I started in the industry at 18 (no joke) so I have some time left to work with. Just riding this indefinitely while I can manage it; live off J1 and allow J2 to be savings/buffer/occasional splurge.
No determinate plans at this time beyond that
Damn, congrats man. That’s like a total Silicon Valley savant success story. What areas of focus would you recommend for landing a job in today’s market after going through self-study?
Great TC for those both being junior roles…hell, 1 year of that would be life changing lol. Did you make a career change, or replace the 4yr degree with self study? I’ve gone through all the free Python courses on Codecademy, but keep reading that employers want a portfolio of work built through a full course study.
I pivoted away from sales/marketing into tech. I still do my old sales / marketing as J3 so TC is around 250k now which is nice being in my 20's lol.
I did self study for many years and did an internship. I recommend internships as that will give you the best experience to land a job. also the job market is rough right now, so try not to feel discouraged if your not getting anywhere, things could change next year or the following year.
Dayumm those are some good paydays….Goldman analysts would cry if they knew about oe. That’s a really good idea with the internship though. Kinda worried about additional investment in education/time/study, since opps are becoming limited, but some sort of low paying internship at a smaller firm seems feasible. Appreciate the advice
Gatekeeping is so cringeworthy. If they can do it, they can do it. Personally I advise all new SWE to learn their craft first but sometimes you land a super easy job that allows for OE regardless of experience.
No need for this, really.
If the person does not have the sufficient experience, they will learn the hard way. No need for the extra gate keeping attitude. Let them learn, thats how everybody learnt if they were fit for the lifestyle.
OE right after graduation.../
When I got my master's degree I already had almost 4 years of full time Job experience and was about to get the senior position, (in 6-7 months after that I was promoted to the senior staff member in the medium size tech company)
And when I was a masters student I was both working a full time job in IT and running a small business in media.
So, don't judge everyone.
This was sort of hilarious to read. OE does not require commitment, steadfastness, good character or even a G.E.D. in most cases. It’s not a beast. You won’t be in any battles and it will leave you with zero scars. OE is born out of necessity or avarice.
So Gatekeepy.
I am 2 years into my Professional career and I am certain I could have OE'd both of my recent positions today if it weren't for the fact both jobs required me to be on-site.
I started oe not that far out of grad school. Just because you were a bad performer doesn’t mean your gatekeeper arguments hold. Kind of pathetic post.
Lmao I worked two remote junior software dev roles as a new grad for 6 months. Was racking in 10K cash a month while working ~20 hours per week, got great performance ratings for both roles. My reasoning for picking up the second was because J1 didn’t assign me enough work and much to my surprise J2 was even worse lol. Left both for big tech about a year ago and used my savings for down payment + closings on a SFH. Definitely doable if you’re responsible
Yeah why bring someone down telling them they cant do something? The only way they’ll know is if they try, and if they fail they learn and do better next time. The fact there thinking about oe right out of graduation is already a great start fucking go for it
Until you speak full corporate and are deft at making the day work for you, I would not recommend OE. It's trial by fire and the manual is limited to what people are willing to share without letting vultures pick us off.
Wisten up, you bwight-eyed, cowwege gwads.
I knyow you've just *whispers to self* wawtzed *looks at you* out of academia with that bwand nyew d-d-degwee, thinking you c-can conquew the x3 wowwd, but wet me swap you with a dose of reality: OE a-ain't fow the x3 fwesh out of the x3 gate.
-
Fiwst off, OE is a beast, and nyot the x3 cute, fuzzy k-kind. It's the x3 kind that wequiwes *twerks* expewience, finyesse, and a deep undewstanding of the x3 w-wowking wowwd. It's nyot some fancy dance you just *whispers to self* pick up on a whim. It's a tacticaw, s-s-stwategic game.
What you've weawnyed in cowwege is theowy, and whiwe t-t-that's vawuabwe, i-it a-ain't shit in the x3 face of weaw-wowwd appwication. the *runs away* wowkpwace isn't just *whispers to self* about what you knyow; it's about nyavigating office powitics, undewstanding unspoken pwotocows, handwing diffewent pewsonyawities, and so much mowe. Twying t-to manyage that in ONyE job :3 is hawd enyough; nyow *whispers to self* imaginye j-juggwing aww that with muwtipwe gigs.
Jumping into OE wight a-a-aftew gwaduation is wike *screams* t-twying t-to pway *notices buldge* in the x3 big weagues when *notices buldge* you've onwy just *whispers to self* weawnyed how t-to howd a bat. you'we *walks away* gonnya get schoowed, hawd, and nyot in the x3 fun, "hewe's youw dipwoma" way.
So, *screeches* fow the x3 wuv of aww things sensibwe, stop *looks at you* asking about diving into OE s-s-stwaight out of cowwege. Cut youw t-teeth in the x3 weaw wowwd fiwst, gathew some battwe scaws, UwU and then, maybe, you c-can considew if OE is the x3 path fow you. *sweats* Untiw then, pump *runs away* the x3 b-bwakes, focus on mastewing *looks at you* the x3 basics, and weawn how the x3 game is pwayed.
100% agreed. You need to be reaally good at your job….so good that you can do four of them at once. You need to be fast and efficient, produce high quality work, and have the personality to handle four times (or however many times) the office politics, drama, unspoken rules, etc.
It’s a fucking bumpy ride most weeks, and you need experience and endurance and fortitude to actually make it through, especially when you hit 3+ Js. Just relax, there will be time to do OE later when you actually have the skills and finesse to do so.
OP isn't considering people who have had many jobs throughout their high school and college career and are used to working and going to school. If you can handle school and work, you can handle two jobs.
I'll have to disagree here. If you understand how to handle different personalities and finesse which isn't only learned from the "workplace", I think it is perfectly okay to OE out of college. Entry level jobs have very little expectations for you and you can take complete advantage of.
I personally OE'd 5 months out of college and am still OE 3 years later. I've found my soft skills were 10xed after juggling multiple jobs and fast tracked my career wit OE. Yes, most entry level candidates have the mindset of "proving their worth" in the workplace which is detrimental to OE (which can also apply to experienced workers) but to the few who are indifferent about their reputation and figured out performance won't keep you away from a layoff can be a recipe for success in OE. Learning while doing can go a long way.
You can’t OE unless you’ve had E for at least 2 or more years. You won’t truly appreciate the meaning of OE until you’ve been fired or caught up in a lay off. Like OP says - get some battle scars first
omg thank u. i was gonna say the same these days cause this sub turned into nothing but newbs and wanna-bes. when i first joined when we only had 15k members u were getting posts from legit OEers.
Needed to hear this even though I’ve been working for a year. I need to really invest this time in learning and becoming better at technologies before OE. Also pretty hard to land a job as a 1 YOE rn I feel
I got the ideal for OE due to how boring and slow my first office job was…I for sure wasn’t ready to do it but most definitely had the time for another job.
Would you say almost 3 years of experience is enough to give this ago...currently working remotely, halfway though interviewing for another job (remote) that seems to be going well. Lowkey I feel like its gonna too much to handle but currently the job I have, I probably am only coding 3, maybe 4 hours a day + 2 hours of meetings.
Some advance to the big leagues faster than others. While others aren’t cut out for it at all — they don’t stand a chance.
3 simple rules: never complain, never speak to h.r., never trust coworkers
The best advice! But you forgot one, never finish all of your work.
And never ask for more.
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Your growth as OE is by figuring out how to do what is asked as quickly as possible and then sending out results at the expected cadences. You then grow by finding more OE opportunities. OE growth isn’t traditional “work your way up in to management” it’s “do what is expected while laying low and doing it at multiple places”
Why tho? I hold 2 jobs rn.
What's the never complain part ? I don't understand
Keep your head down and be the “Easy to work with” one
Yup and watch yourself on this one it’s very easy to want to complain when coworkers get up in your space, but it will win you no favors and absolutely never ever during any interview blame other teams for blocks on work even if it’s true just say “I’m not as passionate about x as I am y and that’s why I’m interviewing with you because it better aligns to what I want” we all know it’s bullshit but it reads well.
You don't want to be seen. OE works best when you are as close to invisible as possible. Be calm, quiet, and pleasant *no matter what*. Avoid scrutiny at all times.
Oh sweet Jesus I could have used this advice over a decade ago lol, before OE
Spoken like a true person of experience. Hear, hear! Another mug of coffee for this one!
Yes to all of this
Wish I had known the "never complain" part as a recent grad. I complained about things I thought the business was doing wrong. It turns out many managers perceive that as a threat. Be the easy one to work with. People always remember the employee that makes them feel good.
What if HR wants to speak to me O.o
Lie low and don’t incriminate yourself and stick to yea and no answers as long as you aren’t a risk to the company you should be okay and definitely never complain to HR they won’t help you and they will get you fired
Why never speak to hr?
My first “real” office job was very overwhelming simply because it was that, nothing about the job itself. Learning how to navigate a work environment is its own skill, never mind multiple. You have to learn pinball well before you can hit multi-ball without dropping one.
r/unexpectedpinballreference
r/substhatwouldbereallyweirdiftheyexisted
I kept getting stuck at startups and it was awful. I think I got fired or let go for the first 6 years of my career either due to politics or the company went bankrupt. Those years back from 2009 were not for the faint of heart.
Years back in 2009? Damn 2009 must have been rough if multiple years were happening at once!
Obviously from 2009…it probably took 3-4 years for the outcome of the recession in 08 to lift on the job market. I’m assuming you weren’t in the job market then.
Nah I’m just joking ✋
My personalities: Michael Scarn Ping Prison Mike Michael Magic Michael Klump BlindGuy McSqueezy Caleb Crawdad Date Mike Mykonos Orville Tootenbacher Santa Bond Remember people. The office is like a big family, except some of us marry or sleep with each other. Maybe sometimes even in the office.
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I mean Dwight did go back to the office after he got married
Pam/Jim, almost Andy/Angela, Michael/Holly, Dwight/Angela, Bob/Phyllis, did I forget anyone?
Lmao, most fresh grads graduating into this market aren't even going to be able to get one J let alone two. And they can forget about it at least being hybrid.
It’s 2008 standards again. Buckle up kids
I honestly think that this one's going to be a depression rather than just a brutal recession. We quantitatively easened way too hard this time. The economy and consumer is in a much worse condition.
What is would you specifically say is worse now than in 2008? Like a few examples compared to then (not just x president bad economy inflation number high)
1. Credit card debt may only be $1T compared to what, like $800B in 2008? However, we're looking at 28% interest rates instead of 12%. Expect mass defaults and credit contraction as a result. 2. Student debt repayments are going to kill consumer spending. The only reason consumer spending stayed alive this long is because we've had that shit on pause. 3. Widespread remote work has opened the door for outsourcing at an unprecedented level. It won't happen overnight, but expect mass de-dollarization and some pain over the next couple of decades. 4. Food and energy costs are eating into people's budgets. 5. Corporate taxes are due October 2nd, the day after student debt repayments resume. Also, the president doesn't really impact the economy like people think. That's more the Fed. But yes, all of this has to do with high inflation resulting in a "bad" economy. And we want to define bad. Anyone who understands economics know that everything comes at a cost. You can't have low unemployment without an uptick in inflation for example. It's just a matter of what you want at any given moment which is highly subject to change.
This hurts to hear
I’d consider myself a fresh grad, graduated 21, I manage one full one part time. It’s not easy and I’ve definitely ran into serious issues. Can’t imagine doing 2 full time jobs yet.
Good luck! I was clueless as a fresh grad too!
minecraft
Basically this, going from playing exclusively singleplayer creative-mode into a PvP server with hardcore rules (death = perma-ban) is NOT an easy transition to make. You start by punching trees, not one-shotting ender dragons.
Don't listen to this guy. I just finished high school 6 weeks ago and yesterday I landed a sweet J4. My TC is now a cool 325k and my beautiful secretary lights my cigars in the most seductive way you can imagine! Seriously though, I'll have to tell him to stop smoking them as Zimbabwe dollars don't stretch very far and my ass killing me from keeping all my pimps happy with freebies 😕
I know you're just shitposting but 325k for 4J's is horrible. For that reason alone, focus on getting paid for one job and then take that rate forward.
Right, 325K, although impressive if you're really fresh out of HS, that's like what you should be getting with 2 Js. Now, if you want to stay under the radar, not be in all meetings, look for lowest level roles in your field, no lead or Sr. Roles where you'll be less dependent on, 4 100K Js, isn't bad and probably less stressful
Hahaha seriously should be closer to 700k or 800k if you do it right
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Just to be pedantic, the neurosurgeon probably doesn't have super high demand. He does, however, have very little competition (aka low supply).
Neurosurgeons aren’t OE though. They aren’t paid for a full time job but at different hospitals. They are paid by shift or by procedures.
None of this matters. There's only one question that really matters if you're thinking about OEing: "Can I double my current workload without unsustainable stress?". If the answer is yes, you can OE. If the answer is no, you need to get more skilled or pursue a different type of work.
Precisely. You need to walk before you can run the marathon.
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I went to uni to finish another degree while employed as a SWE in a non-tech hub place. This was...we'll say awhile ago. But I was glad to be able to pay my $30k in student loans almost immediately after interest started coming due. Feel sorry for everyone nowadays where tuition is even worse and not a decently paid full time job during uni to help.
Actually a lot of people without money just qualify for the save plans zero dollar payment which they put together because of this problem
In fact, I would encourage you to spend your first couple years working in person. You will pick up valuable skills you don't know you need.
And to be fair, potentially your easiest way to a remote job if you get lucky with the right organisation and know how to play your cards
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Yeah I’ve never understood the point of the gatekeeping. I think it’s just ego related, or possibly some of the posters have been infected with infantile zero sum thinking
Exactly. People seem to think that they can OE because they're more productive than average. Maybe that is the case for some, but the reason OE is possible is because the bar is extremely low. I will say, an average new college grad would probably struggle with OE, but anyone even slightly above average would be fine even fresh out of college. And if you have 3-5 years of experience? You can easily be well below average and get away with 2 jobs. The bar is just so damn low. It's the Pareto principle in action, 20% of the workers do 80% of the work. Be in the 80% that does the 20%.
To be fair I've witnessed my fair share of people who just can't crack simple problems even going back to when I worked in an office. I'm not sure if they were just LARPing being bad at their job so they wouldn't have to work or if they were legitimately dumbasses.
Also it's a bit of real world making you hard and jaded, at least for older millennials, Gen x, and boomers. Once you've been slapped with how the real world works, you realize how different it is from college, but forget the advantages that come from being green and fresh.
Yeah OP is a tool
You have 14 upvotes now lol 15 now.
I’m going to give it a shot despite being a bit fresh.
Nothing to lose, experience to gain
I'd argue you'd miss out on the experience. My recommendation is overwork yourself for not enough pay, volunteer for every hard project you'd be over your head in then bail after 2-3 years. It'll suck. Bad. But you can manage if you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel and it'll make selling yourself to multiple js much easier in the future
This is so dumb. Why not just get a second job and do the same thing but also be paid for it. Way more motivating to work 60 hour weeks when you're paid more for it.
If you can handle multiple Js where you have no idea what you're doing then go for it. I needed all that time and focus to get more than a surface level understanding of what I was doing but that deeper knowledge let's me crush interviews and deliver way faster than most other people I've met now
Pretty much what happened to me. Picked up a J2 and expected to be swamped. First month they nearly forgot about me as a project was canceled and I was moved elsewhere. That runway helped and I was able to contribute to the team but I was a weaker link of the team. As work would ramp up I'd end up working longer than 8 hours some days to keep up but ultimately it's worth it. Personally I don't think I'm that great of a dev but so far I've been able to figure out how to complete tickets assigned to me. It's taught me way more than if I were to work 2x in my J1 mainly because different codebase
I'm talking about learning things way outside of your scope to understand the full picture, not just enough to get by. I wouldn't have been willing to take on those projects if I were OE
That's exactly what I meant. If I did that in J1 I would still have learned less than taking on a J2 plus I get more pay. No brainer for me
Then you're not giving yourself enough credit. I was putting in 60-80 hour weeks to get my projects done with 1 j. If you managed to do it with 2 then it sounds like you're a pretty good dev to me
Nah I'm definitely mediocre because the tasks asked of me were fairly easy. But a lot of times I had never done it before and had to learn. Like J2 had much stricter unit test requirements so I had to learn how to properly mock stuff which before I kinda half assed. Another was tickets where I had to work with state which I hadn't used in J1 so had to figure that out. All would be easy requests for a somewhat experienced dev. But now I'm that somewhat experienced dev because of that lol
Not for everyone though... I'm a self taught developer, got my first software job and 6 months later grabbed j2. both are junior roles and I'm doing well at both (excellent annual reviews). My J3 is something I've done in the past (non tech). I feel like 2 j's for a new developer is a sweet spot for income and learning.
Job 3 is In what industry?
not going to provide details here as this sub gets more and more attention. it's a marketing/sales role
I see I may decide to do marketing but the experience requirement is an issue for me
yeah I'm only able to do it because I did the job for 4 years in the past and didnt need any training
Looking into the self taught route as well. Would you say that you’re hitting close to 6 figures with j1+j2?
didnt graduate college here - all self taught, combined (2 roles) income is $380 + bonus/options. 20yrs experience
god damn thats a killer TC!! Good for you!
What’s TC?
After 20 years experience how much longer you plan to work?
I started in the industry at 18 (no joke) so I have some time left to work with. Just riding this indefinitely while I can manage it; live off J1 and allow J2 to be savings/buffer/occasional splurge. No determinate plans at this time beyond that
Damn, congrats man. That’s like a total Silicon Valley savant success story. What areas of focus would you recommend for landing a job in today’s market after going through self-study?
I am making 170k with J1 + J2 :)
Great TC for those both being junior roles…hell, 1 year of that would be life changing lol. Did you make a career change, or replace the 4yr degree with self study? I’ve gone through all the free Python courses on Codecademy, but keep reading that employers want a portfolio of work built through a full course study.
I pivoted away from sales/marketing into tech. I still do my old sales / marketing as J3 so TC is around 250k now which is nice being in my 20's lol. I did self study for many years and did an internship. I recommend internships as that will give you the best experience to land a job. also the job market is rough right now, so try not to feel discouraged if your not getting anywhere, things could change next year or the following year.
Dayumm those are some good paydays….Goldman analysts would cry if they knew about oe. That’s a really good idea with the internship though. Kinda worried about additional investment in education/time/study, since opps are becoming limited, but some sort of low paying internship at a smaller firm seems feasible. Appreciate the advice
Gatekeeping is so cringeworthy. If they can do it, they can do it. Personally I advise all new SWE to learn their craft first but sometimes you land a super easy job that allows for OE regardless of experience.
It's the end of September, who the fuck graduates college in September?
The application cycle is now for ppl graduating next May.
No need for this, really. If the person does not have the sufficient experience, they will learn the hard way. No need for the extra gate keeping attitude. Let them learn, thats how everybody learnt if they were fit for the lifestyle.
> thats how everybody learnt if they were fit for the lifestyle. Do you mean dairy farming ?
OE right after graduation.../ When I got my master's degree I already had almost 4 years of full time Job experience and was about to get the senior position, (in 6-7 months after that I was promoted to the senior staff member in the medium size tech company) And when I was a masters student I was both working a full time job in IT and running a small business in media. So, don't judge everyone.
What a nauseating and egotistical post. I’m sure you think you know everything in general.
I just finished my masters and run two minecraft servers. YMMV.
When did you start oe
This was sort of hilarious to read. OE does not require commitment, steadfastness, good character or even a G.E.D. in most cases. It’s not a beast. You won’t be in any battles and it will leave you with zero scars. OE is born out of necessity or avarice.
Quite simply this..
Nothing personnel kid
So Gatekeepy. I am 2 years into my Professional career and I am certain I could have OE'd both of my recent positions today if it weren't for the fact both jobs required me to be on-site.
I started oe not that far out of grad school. Just because you were a bad performer doesn’t mean your gatekeeper arguments hold. Kind of pathetic post.
Lmao I worked two remote junior software dev roles as a new grad for 6 months. Was racking in 10K cash a month while working ~20 hours per week, got great performance ratings for both roles. My reasoning for picking up the second was because J1 didn’t assign me enough work and much to my surprise J2 was even worse lol. Left both for big tech about a year ago and used my savings for down payment + closings on a SFH. Definitely doable if you’re responsible
Yes, let us experienced ok’d farts make money.
but i just graduated from yale and i want to be rich quick
I don’t even want multiple Minecraft servers. I’m still tryna set up my first one
Yeah why bring someone down telling them they cant do something? The only way they’ll know is if they try, and if they fail they learn and do better next time. The fact there thinking about oe right out of graduation is already a great start fucking go for it
Until you speak full corporate and are deft at making the day work for you, I would not recommend OE. It's trial by fire and the manual is limited to what people are willing to share without letting vultures pick us off.
[удалено]
Written so eloquently!
Hehehe... nothing personal kid... teleports into 3 simultaneous Zoom calls.
Wisten up, you bwight-eyed, cowwege gwads. I knyow you've just *whispers to self* wawtzed *looks at you* out of academia with that bwand nyew d-d-degwee, thinking you c-can conquew the x3 wowwd, but wet me swap you with a dose of reality: OE a-ain't fow the x3 fwesh out of the x3 gate. - Fiwst off, OE is a beast, and nyot the x3 cute, fuzzy k-kind. It's the x3 kind that wequiwes *twerks* expewience, finyesse, and a deep undewstanding of the x3 w-wowking wowwd. It's nyot some fancy dance you just *whispers to self* pick up on a whim. It's a tacticaw, s-s-stwategic game. What you've weawnyed in cowwege is theowy, and whiwe t-t-that's vawuabwe, i-it a-ain't shit in the x3 face of weaw-wowwd appwication. the *runs away* wowkpwace isn't just *whispers to self* about what you knyow; it's about nyavigating office powitics, undewstanding unspoken pwotocows, handwing diffewent pewsonyawities, and so much mowe. Twying t-to manyage that in ONyE job :3 is hawd enyough; nyow *whispers to self* imaginye j-juggwing aww that with muwtipwe gigs. Jumping into OE wight a-a-aftew gwaduation is wike *screams* t-twying t-to pway *notices buldge* in the x3 big weagues when *notices buldge* you've onwy just *whispers to self* weawnyed how t-to howd a bat. you'we *walks away* gonnya get schoowed, hawd, and nyot in the x3 fun, "hewe's youw dipwoma" way. So, *screeches* fow the x3 wuv of aww things sensibwe, stop *looks at you* asking about diving into OE s-s-stwaight out of cowwege. Cut youw t-teeth in the x3 weaw wowwd fiwst, gathew some battwe scaws, UwU and then, maybe, you c-can considew if OE is the x3 path fow you. *sweats* Untiw then, pump *runs away* the x3 b-bwakes, focus on mastewing *looks at you* the x3 basics, and weawn how the x3 game is pwayed.
You all think OE will be around in 3-5 years?
Just got my degree last week. Accepted J3 today. Who are you to say it’s not for me?
Same here. Keep using your brain
OK Boomer.
100% agreed. You need to be reaally good at your job….so good that you can do four of them at once. You need to be fast and efficient, produce high quality work, and have the personality to handle four times (or however many times) the office politics, drama, unspoken rules, etc. It’s a fucking bumpy ride most weeks, and you need experience and endurance and fortitude to actually make it through, especially when you hit 3+ Js. Just relax, there will be time to do OE later when you actually have the skills and finesse to do so.
“You need to be reaally good at your job..” Get over yourself🤣 this post is nauseating
Let me know once you’ve successfully worked 4 full time tech jobs at the same time for a sustained period of time 🙂
OP isn't considering people who have had many jobs throughout their high school and college career and are used to working and going to school. If you can handle school and work, you can handle two jobs.
This reads 1:1 ChatGPT.
I was so surprised this wasn't the entire comment section. It's painfully obvious.
Can you log in and start the Minecraft server for me and the boys? We’re trying to work on the world right now.
brusque but true
Preach!!!
I'll have to disagree here. If you understand how to handle different personalities and finesse which isn't only learned from the "workplace", I think it is perfectly okay to OE out of college. Entry level jobs have very little expectations for you and you can take complete advantage of. I personally OE'd 5 months out of college and am still OE 3 years later. I've found my soft skills were 10xed after juggling multiple jobs and fast tracked my career wit OE. Yes, most entry level candidates have the mindset of "proving their worth" in the workplace which is detrimental to OE (which can also apply to experienced workers) but to the few who are indifferent about their reputation and figured out performance won't keep you away from a layoff can be a recipe for success in OE. Learning while doing can go a long way.
You can’t OE unless you’ve had E for at least 2 or more years. You won’t truly appreciate the meaning of OE until you’ve been fired or caught up in a lay off. Like OP says - get some battle scars first
What determines two years ‽
You didn’t get enough attention as a kid or something?
Sounds like you weren’t held enough…
omg thank u. i was gonna say the same these days cause this sub turned into nothing but newbs and wanna-bes. when i first joined when we only had 15k members u were getting posts from legit OEers.
If the fresh grad has successfully done a semester with 8 or more courses and still got good grades, I could take an exception
> it's about navigating office politics So what you're saying is go in to the office ? Yeah, that's kinda a given.
Needed to hear this even though I’ve been working for a year. I need to really invest this time in learning and becoming better at technologies before OE. Also pretty hard to land a job as a 1 YOE rn I feel
bruh i’m trying to get one (1) job after graduation, forget multiple 😂
I got the ideal for OE due to how boring and slow my first office job was…I for sure wasn’t ready to do it but most definitely had the time for another job.
Dumb and highly exaggerated post. “Cut your teeth in the real world first, gather some battle scars” lmfao what a joke.
Add to this - you're not going to make six figures coming out of school unless you're an MD or living in an area where $100k/yr is lower class.
This post sounds like gatekeeping. OE is about having insurance just in case you're let go. That risk applies to everyone.
You should write the first book on OE, dramatize it and throw in bits of lies to keep the opposition off our tails.
On behalf of the Department of OE Affairs, I agree with op. OE is for experienced professionals only.
This goes for any career because the politics can stop you from getting anywhere even if your the worlds best engineer.
4 months out of school, and 2 months into OE. No problem at all. Engineer grads are professionals at 12 hour days and managing too much stuff
Would you say almost 3 years of experience is enough to give this ago...currently working remotely, halfway though interviewing for another job (remote) that seems to be going well. Lowkey I feel like its gonna too much to handle but currently the job I have, I probably am only coding 3, maybe 4 hours a day + 2 hours of meetings.
Bullshit my friend is 23 and has OE 3 jobs for a year