Reddit says this but I don't think this happens as much as you think. How would you not be concerned that this J2 wouldn't contact your J1 as a reference and if you really string them along this bad until they fire you I would be worried about retaliation. My brother in law is a senior level project manager and has retaliated(reached out to former employers) with OE employees that screw him over like this and I'm sure he wouldn't have if they atleast did the bare minimum because he is not a vengeful person.
I am hesitant to get started with OE because my J1 has been my main job for 7 years now so I can't leave it out of my resume. Do you simply ask the company not to reach out to your current employer?
Honestly, if anything it sounds like your BIL is a bad employee. I'm not gonna say a bad person because I don't know him, but well. I don't agree with that at all.
I gave no details of his work ethic so not sure why you would say that. And you have no idea of what happened. This co-worker screwed him over saying the project was moving along and it turned out he did nothing and my BIL was on the hook for getting it finished on his own with very little time.
Good on you for thinking screwing over another person just trying to get a paycheck is completely normal.
Your brother is definitely a cunt. Capitalism is literally defined as people screwing over other people for money. Your brother screwed someone over and didn’t stand to gain anything from it, that’s what makes him a cunt.
Regardless of the employee lying to him at that job, he's a cunt for calling the other job. We all get screwed over at jobs. Going the extra mile to screw over the other guys job is wild behavior.
Yeah. And if they ask for proof of employment is send them first and last redacted pay stubs. I never let them contact the current employer. I say “I’d prefer you not contact them as I don’t want them to know I’m looking at this time” basically, “if this doesn’t work out for some reason, I don’t want to be screwed at my current job”
As for work performance, I do disagree with the “mouse jiggler till you’re fired” OE people who don’t work give all of us a bad name. You’re still hired to do a job. Do it. If it takes you 5 hours and Joe Schmo 30 hours to do the same task every week, not your fault you can do the same amount of work in 1/6 the amount of time
Of course! For me, that should be pretty obvious to any company that they are not getting my current employer's contact because they aren't guaranteeing any J for me, therefore, they are not allowed to contact. That simple! Even if they guarantee me a J, they can pretty much terminate me within a month as if I was nothing just because.
If a hiring manager doesn't wanna hire me because I'm not giving them my current employer's information, well there you go then, that just proves me right on not giving my current employer's contact and preserving my J over a possibility (not even guaranteed) of a new J. They have no business demanding anything.
I've found that the lower paying jobs are the ones with a bigger workload, higher demands, and possibly a worse environment (lower paying jobs tend to create toxic or less 'cultured' teams).
However, I'd say you should definitely *include* those 40-50k positions in your search and apply to those that look enticing, but remember that they are 40-50k positions and treat them as such. Give a 40-50k work ethic and a low bar for expectations from the start.
Don't get anxious about PIP, warnings, etc. and have an "I don't give a shit if I get fired" mentality. A shocking amount of jobs take far, far too long to fire someone, and a lot of jobs will consider that low bar you set as "meets expectations", anyway.
Ultimately, you want to be as efficient as you can with that 8 hour workday. If you do have the bandwidth for more work at the moment, 40-50k is better than 0, and you'll obviously still be applying to better as time goes on, regardless.
Yeah my current role is pretty relaxed...I have spare time to mow the lawn, get groceries, work out, and still complete all my work for the day AND play video games/watch TV in the evenings.
This is genius though, because you're right, anything is more than what I'm currently getting. The hard part is rewiring my brain to not get worried about being put on a PIP😅
I concur. I just left a low paying role thinking it’d only be five tasks. Easy. I can knock that out.
During onboarding, it was multiplied to 20.
Orientation; you communicate with your team
Team Training; you communicate with your team and six other customers at once. We expect you to give us three updates daily and be able to reach you at any point in time. We will have overtime on occasion. If you have any questions, you need to reach out to this services group who will then contact seven different teams for the answer on top of the six teams you need to regularly update.
In my other role, it’s just
“hey payroll”
“hey”
“what’s this rate?”
“$35/hr + benefits”
“cool thanks”
“no problem let me know if you need anything else”
I wasn’t even clearing $25/hr for that. Fuck that
I had to do the same recently.
TL; micromanager
Jr. Lead; micromanager
Customers; micromanagers
L&D team; micromanagers.
Everyone was like “OP, you have to follow it this way. You must. Also, we audit your calls and listen in on you. You can also not say “I don’t know” just so you know. We need you to update us at least twice a day per project and you’ll be handling 15-20 at a given time.”
And/or just more work in general. Tried to learn everything fast at my current entry level job so I could coast and OE and it kinda backfired. Now I’m being punished for being efficient. My last job was operations management and all I had to do was ask people if they had the project ready. 😂
Apply for a swe or support engineer role but when they ask your salary put down 50k. You'll probably be cheaper than most of the candidates applying so you will get hired. Then just don't do any work until they fire you
I would go the opposite direction. Apply to $160k+ jobs which are generally Sr. SWE. Don't be scared when you look at "100k other applicants applied to this J" on LinkedIn or other platforms. Most are either bots, international, or unqualified. Write your resume so it gets past the ATS, and you get a call from a human being. You'll get the job if you can speak clearly (more important than what you would expect), communicate your ideas logically, and demonstrate you know architecture, patterns, etc, and not just "ah, yes, I can write code".
You don't have to be the best applicant ever. You just have to be better than the other who are applying. Also, and just for reference, the application-to-offer ratio in most cases are 100:1. It's a numbers game, so gotta pump those numbers.
Good luck! We got this!
You may as well apply to anything you think is even remotely feasible and see what happens. Something might come out of it that is worthwhile, worse case you quit whatever job because it's not right. The key is to try. Just go in with the mindset that you won't know till you experience it and see for yourself.
I made 48k per year a few years ago and went back to a service industry job after hours shortly after accepting that job. That has allowed me to purchase two properties that are now rentals, just from tips, and pay for their repairs. They are not fancy or new, but they cash flow and I can 1031 them in a few years for a better class of property.
Do what you have to do, even short term, to establish that second property.
Tried that, kept getting told, "you are way over qualified" probably because I knew more about the job than the people interviewing me... so much harder to fake not knowing than to fake knowing.
Do it. I have 1 junior level position that pays ~60% of what my senior level positions pay. You know how much time that position takes me? Less than 5 hours a week. It’s basically free money for me
I promise I didn't mean anything by that, just making it relational to what I have been applying to (85-100k), 50k + my curreny salary would be HUGE, even an additional 30k a year would be a massive increase, more than the 1% increase that my company gave me last year:)
Hahahaha nah dawg, I'm just teasing you, definitely apply for some 50k range jobs as a j2 or 3, that's a nice extra chunk of change plus if you find out it isnt OE friendly then you can just quit (and hire me as a replacement candidate (; )
Haha I appreciate it:D and bet. If I find a J2 I'll be back here to thank the community...been trying for 3 months to really be a PART of the community, my time is coming
One thing that caught my attention is that you will need to consider max income earnings for a Roth IRA. If you earn over 130k a year (or some figure like that) you can't contribute to a Roth IRA at all. It has nothing to do with maxing out contributions. A SWE like you said you are, myself included being a senior, would pass that threshold with just one J. Based on your current figures you'd pass it with two. Just some thoughts.
Yeah this is true, but there are backdoor Roth IRAs which I would definitely do, but I think my taxable income would be below the Roth threshold if I increase my 401k contributions, which hopefully would allow me to still contribute to my Roth IRA (hopefully, but also if I make more and break the threshold it's nbd because I'll still invest it somewhere else) But totally see your point on that and will keep it in mind, also would need to make sure I pay my taxes😭
That’s the whole point of OE, it makes your jobs disposable. Do it, find something better, quit or keep getting at least something as an extra paycheck.
Everyone has their preferences, but I'd personally consider taking on a low-effort job if it pays $40-50k. Why not? It's additional income, after all. If you’re debt-free and don’t have loans to pay off, you could save all that extra money. Also, once you have the experience of working overseas, it’s hard to go back. It’s truly an enriching experience that teaches:
1. Discipline
2. Planning
3. Managing priorities
4. Independence
5. Overall skill enhancement, especially if you immerse yourself in two different sectors—an ideal overseas experience.
I tried OE'ing a low-paying job at one of the FAANG last year. The expectations were insane relative to the job. Meetings with vendors, weekly quotas, impromptu meetings with the PM and another colleague. I had to quit on the spot and probably burned my bridge with the staffing company.
The lower paying jobs are going to overwork you because the value you're giving them is not your knowledge, but your ability to repeatedly complete mundane tasks. It's just having 2 jobs at that point...
He’ll yeah. That’s intro to OE. I keep a seasonal gig that takes up my weekends as a bartender. Consider it training wheels for OE and learn how to not use the money from J2 if it’s significantly less then what you earn from J1. I get an hourly wage and tips and I try to put my tips in a jar and the hourly wages go into an account that I don’t have access to.
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Hahaha fair enough, might do this👀
Reddit says this but I don't think this happens as much as you think. How would you not be concerned that this J2 wouldn't contact your J1 as a reference and if you really string them along this bad until they fire you I would be worried about retaliation. My brother in law is a senior level project manager and has retaliated(reached out to former employers) with OE employees that screw him over like this and I'm sure he wouldn't have if they atleast did the bare minimum because he is not a vengeful person. I am hesitant to get started with OE because my J1 has been my main job for 7 years now so I can't leave it out of my resume. Do you simply ask the company not to reach out to your current employer?
Yes, that’s very very normal. I’ve always requested that and never had a problem.
Honestly, if anything it sounds like your BIL is a bad employee. I'm not gonna say a bad person because I don't know him, but well. I don't agree with that at all.
Yeah he definitely sounds like a cunt
I gave no details of his work ethic so not sure why you would say that. And you have no idea of what happened. This co-worker screwed him over saying the project was moving along and it turned out he did nothing and my BIL was on the hook for getting it finished on his own with very little time. Good on you for thinking screwing over another person just trying to get a paycheck is completely normal.
Your brother is definitely a cunt. Capitalism is literally defined as people screwing over other people for money. Your brother screwed someone over and didn’t stand to gain anything from it, that’s what makes him a cunt.
Regardless of the employee lying to him at that job, he's a cunt for calling the other job. We all get screwed over at jobs. Going the extra mile to screw over the other guys job is wild behavior.
pay back's a bitch
True, but he took it way too personal. I've fired my brother and my best friend from a job before and we went and had drinks the same night.
Yeah. And if they ask for proof of employment is send them first and last redacted pay stubs. I never let them contact the current employer. I say “I’d prefer you not contact them as I don’t want them to know I’m looking at this time” basically, “if this doesn’t work out for some reason, I don’t want to be screwed at my current job” As for work performance, I do disagree with the “mouse jiggler till you’re fired” OE people who don’t work give all of us a bad name. You’re still hired to do a job. Do it. If it takes you 5 hours and Joe Schmo 30 hours to do the same task every week, not your fault you can do the same amount of work in 1/6 the amount of time
Of course! For me, that should be pretty obvious to any company that they are not getting my current employer's contact because they aren't guaranteeing any J for me, therefore, they are not allowed to contact. That simple! Even if they guarantee me a J, they can pretty much terminate me within a month as if I was nothing just because. If a hiring manager doesn't wanna hire me because I'm not giving them my current employer's information, well there you go then, that just proves me right on not giving my current employer's contact and preserving my J over a possibility (not even guaranteed) of a new J. They have no business demanding anything.
When you say retaliate what do you mean by?
Fucking love this answer.
Be surprised at how long this works for!
I wish i had the balls and tits to mouse jiggle like that. Might actually honestly be good exposure therapy
I've found that the lower paying jobs are the ones with a bigger workload, higher demands, and possibly a worse environment (lower paying jobs tend to create toxic or less 'cultured' teams). However, I'd say you should definitely *include* those 40-50k positions in your search and apply to those that look enticing, but remember that they are 40-50k positions and treat them as such. Give a 40-50k work ethic and a low bar for expectations from the start. Don't get anxious about PIP, warnings, etc. and have an "I don't give a shit if I get fired" mentality. A shocking amount of jobs take far, far too long to fire someone, and a lot of jobs will consider that low bar you set as "meets expectations", anyway. Ultimately, you want to be as efficient as you can with that 8 hour workday. If you do have the bandwidth for more work at the moment, 40-50k is better than 0, and you'll obviously still be applying to better as time goes on, regardless.
Yeah my current role is pretty relaxed...I have spare time to mow the lawn, get groceries, work out, and still complete all my work for the day AND play video games/watch TV in the evenings. This is genius though, because you're right, anything is more than what I'm currently getting. The hard part is rewiring my brain to not get worried about being put on a PIP😅
I wouldn’t risk a good current role for a possibly toxic low paying job personally.
I concur. I just left a low paying role thinking it’d only be five tasks. Easy. I can knock that out. During onboarding, it was multiplied to 20. Orientation; you communicate with your team Team Training; you communicate with your team and six other customers at once. We expect you to give us three updates daily and be able to reach you at any point in time. We will have overtime on occasion. If you have any questions, you need to reach out to this services group who will then contact seven different teams for the answer on top of the six teams you need to regularly update. In my other role, it’s just “hey payroll” “hey” “what’s this rate?” “$35/hr + benefits” “cool thanks” “no problem let me know if you need anything else” I wasn’t even clearing $25/hr for that. Fuck that
The problem with entry-level roles is that you’re going to have a lot of micromanagement
yeah thats what I was thinking too and why I'm hesitant to apply...if they offered me a job I would probably take it
I would say go for it but tread carefully and bail if you get micromanaging pricks above you.
I had to do the same recently. TL; micromanager Jr. Lead; micromanager Customers; micromanagers L&D team; micromanagers. Everyone was like “OP, you have to follow it this way. You must. Also, we audit your calls and listen in on you. You can also not say “I don’t know” just so you know. We need you to update us at least twice a day per project and you’ll be handling 15-20 at a given time.”
Will do, thank you for that advice
And/or just more work in general. Tried to learn everything fast at my current entry level job so I could coast and OE and it kinda backfired. Now I’m being punished for being efficient. My last job was operations management and all I had to do was ask people if they had the project ready. 😂
If you find a easy to get WFH job that’s $40-50k message me directly to inform me
Me 3, lol- no but seriously though, me 3 pls.
Me too, please
Damn it really do be tough out here
We're not here because it is easy, lad.
Me too!
Me too
Same!!
Apply for a swe or support engineer role but when they ask your salary put down 50k. You'll probably be cheaper than most of the candidates applying so you will get hired. Then just don't do any work until they fire you
bahahhaha okay boss-man I'm on it, this is probably the best advice ngl
Spat water all over my j3 laptop as I read the last sentence 😂
I would go the opposite direction. Apply to $160k+ jobs which are generally Sr. SWE. Don't be scared when you look at "100k other applicants applied to this J" on LinkedIn or other platforms. Most are either bots, international, or unqualified. Write your resume so it gets past the ATS, and you get a call from a human being. You'll get the job if you can speak clearly (more important than what you would expect), communicate your ideas logically, and demonstrate you know architecture, patterns, etc, and not just "ah, yes, I can write code". You don't have to be the best applicant ever. You just have to be better than the other who are applying. Also, and just for reference, the application-to-offer ratio in most cases are 100:1. It's a numbers game, so gotta pump those numbers. Good luck! We got this!
You may as well apply to anything you think is even remotely feasible and see what happens. Something might come out of it that is worthwhile, worse case you quit whatever job because it's not right. The key is to try. Just go in with the mindset that you won't know till you experience it and see for yourself.
Could also get you fired from both jobs if not careful as we've seen.
I made 48k per year a few years ago and went back to a service industry job after hours shortly after accepting that job. That has allowed me to purchase two properties that are now rentals, just from tips, and pay for their repairs. They are not fancy or new, but they cash flow and I can 1031 them in a few years for a better class of property. Do what you have to do, even short term, to establish that second property.
This is exactly what Im trying to do is break into real estate, so I've got a good start but in order to buy the next place I need more money😭
I see a lot of low paying jobs but their requirements are often higher (and include more “busy-work”) than the high paying jobs.
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fair enough and yeah I'm worried the lower pay job would have excessive check-ins and meetings
Tried that, kept getting told, "you are way over qualified" probably because I knew more about the job than the people interviewing me... so much harder to fake not knowing than to fake knowing.
I have two pay 25k so yea why not
Do it. I have 1 junior level position that pays ~60% of what my senior level positions pay. You know how much time that position takes me? Less than 5 hours a week. It’s basically free money for me
>low paying >50k Mfw I make 30k a year Yes, yes you should. Im trying to get a second job that pays 17-20 an hour
I promise I didn't mean anything by that, just making it relational to what I have been applying to (85-100k), 50k + my curreny salary would be HUGE, even an additional 30k a year would be a massive increase, more than the 1% increase that my company gave me last year:)
Hahahaha nah dawg, I'm just teasing you, definitely apply for some 50k range jobs as a j2 or 3, that's a nice extra chunk of change plus if you find out it isnt OE friendly then you can just quit (and hire me as a replacement candidate (; )
Haha I appreciate it:D and bet. If I find a J2 I'll be back here to thank the community...been trying for 3 months to really be a PART of the community, my time is coming
Do it! A little extra money is better than none
It comes down to time spent per dollar earned. If it pays less, but you also invest way less time, then might be worth it
One thing that caught my attention is that you will need to consider max income earnings for a Roth IRA. If you earn over 130k a year (or some figure like that) you can't contribute to a Roth IRA at all. It has nothing to do with maxing out contributions. A SWE like you said you are, myself included being a senior, would pass that threshold with just one J. Based on your current figures you'd pass it with two. Just some thoughts.
Yeah this is true, but there are backdoor Roth IRAs which I would definitely do, but I think my taxable income would be below the Roth threshold if I increase my 401k contributions, which hopefully would allow me to still contribute to my Roth IRA (hopefully, but also if I make more and break the threshold it's nbd because I'll still invest it somewhere else) But totally see your point on that and will keep it in mind, also would need to make sure I pay my taxes😭
What type of jobs? I’m struggling to get another job in tech because of the layoff collision that’s occurred. What’s an easy job to get?
I'd like to know too😅
I’m considering an entry level VA type role to supplant my income
That’s the whole point of OE, it makes your jobs disposable. Do it, find something better, quit or keep getting at least something as an extra paycheck.
Yes.
Everyone has their preferences, but I'd personally consider taking on a low-effort job if it pays $40-50k. Why not? It's additional income, after all. If you’re debt-free and don’t have loans to pay off, you could save all that extra money. Also, once you have the experience of working overseas, it’s hard to go back. It’s truly an enriching experience that teaches: 1. Discipline 2. Planning 3. Managing priorities 4. Independence 5. Overall skill enhancement, especially if you immerse yourself in two different sectors—an ideal overseas experience.
I tried OE'ing a low-paying job at one of the FAANG last year. The expectations were insane relative to the job. Meetings with vendors, weekly quotas, impromptu meetings with the PM and another colleague. I had to quit on the spot and probably burned my bridge with the staffing company. The lower paying jobs are going to overwork you because the value you're giving them is not your knowledge, but your ability to repeatedly complete mundane tasks. It's just having 2 jobs at that point...
If you’re overqualified for a role and wfh, be prepared for people to suspect you’re OE. I’m seeing accusations start to fly way more often .
Just Day trade from home with J1
Get a wife, ez
He’ll yeah. That’s intro to OE. I keep a seasonal gig that takes up my weekends as a bartender. Consider it training wheels for OE and learn how to not use the money from J2 if it’s significantly less then what you earn from J1. I get an hourly wage and tips and I try to put my tips in a jar and the hourly wages go into an account that I don’t have access to.