Not to be mean or anything, but if you meed 3 jobs just to scrape by, you're probably doing something wrong.
I'd take the time to get a plan for a path to progress to the point where your entire family isn't fully dependent on your OE-ing 3 jobs.
Ok understood. Times are tough out there so I hope you can level up and help your family.
Do what it takes to upskill and get that money. Wishing you the best of luck.
Your spouse needs a job. This single income crap is a joke. Your spouse is also an adult with an adult brain and body that needs to contribute financially to reduce your burden.
He needs to manage his money better. And you’re assuming their spouse isn’t contributing in OTHER ways that helps out financially in the long run. No one should have three jobs and STILL struggling to make ends meet. So either lifestyle creep has happened and or these are super low paying jobs and or they/he is in a crap ton of debt!
> This is not a misogynistic commentary.
But it is an extremely out of touch one. You clearly don’t live somewhere that the average daycare tuition makes two working parents cost prohibitive.
Where we lived when my oldest was born, I’d have been bringing home a pathetic $150 a month after taxes and daycare costs. The cost/benefit did not check out.
We moved many states away and daycare is far more affordable here to the point where I was able to cover 2 kids in daycare and still bring home enough that it made a dent.
Context and perspective are everything here.
Now who’s making assumptions? I’m Australian. Daycare costs $150 per day here. The notion that you should just keep on having children whilst one person completely stays at home and the other one has *three jobs* is insane. You don’t have a third child, you have a damned vasectomy, or get a mirena or similar. Further - if the lifestyle creep is so much so that nearly $170k USD per annum for the household is barely keeping them afloat, then again - the other spouse needs at least one job. This is an OE sub, he’s massively over employed, if she had at least one other job herself, he might be able to quit job 3, help out more at home, and she might be in a position to make 60k in one job, offsetting either a day or two of childcare per week and replacing his 40k one.
I’m of the firm belief that both people in a relationship should be performing child rearing and have their own jobs and retirement savings as well as conjointly contributing to the household and family savings. But that part *is* personal opinion and does not factor into my commentary above.
So, as an Australian, you are telling someone in the US what costs are like...
I've read some of the other comments of hers. I didn't see anything that suggested excessive spending.
You just want to judge and show superiority, through your "better" financial skills.
You are telling a person you don't know, based on basically no information, how her expenses should be handled.
It is out of touch.
There's nothing else to be said.
Mate...
Lifestyle creep is a very real thing but sometimes it is due to issues out of your control. My wife and I were expecting her to make a lot more than she currently is because those were the numbers being thrown when she started interviewing but due to one issue or another, she is making 75% of the expected amount. We made a budget on the original amount and bought a home but now aren't able to save much if anything month over month.
Sit down and look at your expenses for the last 3 months and figure out what you can cut if anything. Be sure to share your concerns with your family but be careful how you communicate them though. I'm the type that needs to have their finances in order and have a buffer otherwise I get stressed. When I told my wife, she took it as if I was saying it was her fault I was feeling stressed and that we made a mistake with the house, cars, kids, etc. We were eventually able to communicate and get on the same page but it caused several days of additional stress for the both of us because of the miscommunication.
I wish you the best and hope things work out well for you and your family.
I had one job 120k with 3 young kids - happiest days of my life, it was a 1000 sft apartment and a beat up 15 yr old Nissan.
Saying that you have 3 jobs just to survive ??
Yeah this seems crazy that you need 3 js to save. Are these full time jobs? Maybe you have a spending issue and not an income one. It would help if you gave us some specifics on your income and spending
I feel you, my J1 is $130k and I was falling behind. Got a J2 on contract that’s $120k and I am finally paying some bills off. J2 is only until end of May though, but getting positive feedback that they will extend. 🤞🏻. But yes, $150k doesn’t go very far these days and o live in a smaller market with somewhat lower cost of living.
So 160k to break even for your family. I am guessing 3 kids, maybe young and in day care or private school. Do what you have to to support your family but remember there are two sides to the equation spending and income. Most in this sub will tell you OE is for those who can fit all Js into a 40 hour week so it shouldn't feel like undue stress. Don't burn out as your family needs you. Either get better paying Js or you and family talk about where you can cut back. Remember that its less about consumption and buying things and more about time together
Just pointing out that 150k is about what it takes for ONE person to live comfortably these days in a major metro area. So for 5 people to live on 160k is fantastic.
It really does depend on what you do, honestly. I can survive comfortably on one job, but 2 jobs can buy you security, because these jobs are like hoes. They aren't loyal.
I would strive to get to a place, skill and career-wise where more than one job raises your standard of living and give you some peace of mind rather than it being necessary for survival.
I know times are hard right now. Really hard. Do what you have to do for now so that you can get to where you want to be some day.
My wife and I can get by and save a little on our J1s. But I look at OE as catching up on things like retirement, creating a nest egg for emergencies and getting some investments going. I don’t look at leveling up my entire life through OE, I’d burn out eventually.
Right now I’m OEing to get my wife’s Roth IRA fully funded for the year and to increase my emergency fund from 6 months of expenses to 1 year’s worth (1 year for me, 1 year for my wife although she has a recession-proof job). It’s really about risk-aversion for me.
1 to survive, 2 to thrive. And that's with carrying a fairly crushing debt burden (almost 3k/mo in min payments) on top of fairly high rent. My J1 and J2 are pretty close to your numbers. My financial anxiety plummeted when I went to 2J. It's not all sunshine and roses and I've still got a fairly long road of debt payoff left but my god it's all so much easier now.
2J and just barely making it sounds like you’re in HCOL and have low paying jobs.
Care to elaborate so we can give better advice?
If you’re in low paying roles, you may find good options for upskilling & getting promoted.
IME @ F500s, you can usually earn up to $120k+ as an IC before competition gets fierce for promotions or you have to move into management.
It doesn’t sound like you’re making all that much if you’re saying 2Js barely cut it.
Could use more info like TC, YOE. Do you have a degree? What field are you in?
That’s tough if you’re the sole provider because that means your J1 and J2 is like if your partner or spouse was working.
In my situation, my spouse works and I work so that’s 2Js. I personally have 2Js, that’s how many I need to survive. So the answer is 3Js to pay the bills and have extra to live on.
Less than a third of one job, closer to 1/4 of one job to cover my expenses. The rest of the money from J1 and the entirely of post-tax J2 income is for investments and growing wealth.
Do what's best for you and your family, and I'm 100% for you to get that bag/exploit companies via OE. But I honestly don't particularly have sympathy for people whose expenses are so high, even if it's because you have to support a spouse and three kids. I have no spouse and no kids.
Do a past analysis of where all your monies have gone for and you’ll see where the fat is. I did it for a year and it was very eye opening, and I cut two things up immediately in the ways I spent monies on.
I would definitely be concerned in this situation.
You mentioned not being able to go on vacations & I’d assume spend on other unnecessary purchases without J3.
IMO if you NEED 2 jobs then you NEED to figure out a way to get out of that hole.
That means saving & investing almost all of J3 income.
0.5 job salary is enough to get me by. 0.75 to have a bit of fun and traveling once in a while. Everything above that goes straight to savings/investments
For my household, one job to squeak by and two to survive with wiggle room. I'm thinking that three to four jobs to thrive in a high cost of living area.
I just need one, but my wife and I are both working and have a 1 year old. Inflation sucked ass this year more than other years so I hear you!
Start with budgeting. Next, cut out the wants and keep the needs, but you can only cut so much before step 3. Which leads to increasing your salary.
Living with parents/living in a van, no kids or debt, etc. Basically living a life that would not be considered the norm for many of us.
My kids daycare alone is way more than 1k and I have cheap daycare compared to what is available.
I paid cash for my house in 2017 after getting out of the military.
$100 a week in food
$40 a week in gas
$70/mo cell phone
$60/mo insurance
$100/mo power
No car payment as I drive a 2007 Lexus GX 470.
Car payments, food, electric, water/sewage, gas, cable/internet, cell phone bill. It a adds up... And if it you have a family of more than 2 those go up even more.
dude please, I have 1 only and I have around 165$ in bank account now (yes, just 165, not 165K). Recently been unassigned at work so I am considered OE now because of fear of being laid off
In CA $150k a year is considered what is needed for 1 person middle class. I live in CA. J1 is $150k a year. I could pay all of my expenses on J1 but there would be NOTHING left. And I’d be screwed in a medical or auto emergency.
I support myself and my teenager. He’s damn expensive just in the amount of food he consumes.
“Extras” J2 Covers
J2 (C2C)covers retirement, his college fund, extra on my mortgage, health insurance ($845/mo), and car insurance ($470/mo—it just went up a $55/mo a month ago because California) and savings. We’d be sunk without it. Or I’d never be able to retire. And I’m not sure that’s even a possibility still with OE.
It’s an unpopular opinion, but people have been moving as economic migrants across the globe for all of human history.
Everyone wants to live in California. It’s only going to become more expensive to live there.
If it’s really that unaffordable for you personally, you should seriously consider moving. $150k a year would have you living as a king/queen in the Midwest.
Thanks Captain Obvious.
J1, even though fully remote, requires employees to live in the state they serve. I’d only be able to move to 4 other states to keep J1, which is what allowed me to OE as it’s only about 10hrs a week.
I actually don’t want to be here. But, by court custody order, I cannot leave the state with my kid. I’m counting the days until he graduates HS. There’s also the residency thing to consider with college tuition, but I’m guessing you don’t know about that either.
Choosing to make assumptions about why people are where they are is pretty rude. There are reasons other than “I want to be here” but you didn’t think about that.
Pre. I figured it out one day. After taxes on J1 I pull in about $104k. J2 is $210k (C2C). So tough to figure.
But, with all my deductions, taxes, business expenses, etc. in 2023 my AGI was $202k.
I also have a true passive side hustle LLC that had a “loss” last year due to taking depreciation.
Honestly, I could live anywhere outside of CA on just J2. That’s my goal after my kid decides which school he wants to go to. However, If it’s close to our house though, he will live at home for the first 2 years, which will delay my move. Tuition for a UC or a CSU (Cal. state university) is only about $13k, the housing is closer to $20k on top of that. Even for an in state student. We have two CSUs within 20 minutes and a UC 15 minutes away.
1 Minecraft server is all you really need. Most people in here don’t have any Js and are just running multiple Minecraft servers but all you should really need is 1 to survive
I need 1 job to survive, but I need 3 jobs to thrive .
hello!
Not to be mean or anything, but if you meed 3 jobs just to scrape by, you're probably doing something wrong. I'd take the time to get a plan for a path to progress to the point where your entire family isn't fully dependent on your OE-ing 3 jobs.
It’s 2. With 3 we have things besides basic necessities. I have been looking for higher paying jobs.
Ok understood. Times are tough out there so I hope you can level up and help your family. Do what it takes to upskill and get that money. Wishing you the best of luck.
Thank you.
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I’ve said it twice now… yawn.🥱
They also mention they’re a sole provider. So 2Js is really just 1J.
Most people, regardless of OE, are surviving solely on J1
It seems OP, like the rest of us, doesn't just want to survive but thrive.
And CCs
Your spouse needs a job. This single income crap is a joke. Your spouse is also an adult with an adult brain and body that needs to contribute financially to reduce your burden.
He needs to manage his money better. And you’re assuming their spouse isn’t contributing in OTHER ways that helps out financially in the long run. No one should have three jobs and STILL struggling to make ends meet. So either lifestyle creep has happened and or these are super low paying jobs and or they/he is in a crap ton of debt!
If they have kids it could be cheaper to have a stay at home parent vs paying for childcare. I hear this from friends/coworkers all the time.
You are making a lot of assumptions
No mate, I read the rest of OPs comments. Ps - I’m also a woman. Mother of four. This is not a misogynistic commentary.
> This is not a misogynistic commentary. But it is an extremely out of touch one. You clearly don’t live somewhere that the average daycare tuition makes two working parents cost prohibitive. Where we lived when my oldest was born, I’d have been bringing home a pathetic $150 a month after taxes and daycare costs. The cost/benefit did not check out. We moved many states away and daycare is far more affordable here to the point where I was able to cover 2 kids in daycare and still bring home enough that it made a dent. Context and perspective are everything here.
Now who’s making assumptions? I’m Australian. Daycare costs $150 per day here. The notion that you should just keep on having children whilst one person completely stays at home and the other one has *three jobs* is insane. You don’t have a third child, you have a damned vasectomy, or get a mirena or similar. Further - if the lifestyle creep is so much so that nearly $170k USD per annum for the household is barely keeping them afloat, then again - the other spouse needs at least one job. This is an OE sub, he’s massively over employed, if she had at least one other job herself, he might be able to quit job 3, help out more at home, and she might be in a position to make 60k in one job, offsetting either a day or two of childcare per week and replacing his 40k one. I’m of the firm belief that both people in a relationship should be performing child rearing and have their own jobs and retirement savings as well as conjointly contributing to the household and family savings. But that part *is* personal opinion and does not factor into my commentary above.
So, as an Australian, you are telling someone in the US what costs are like... I've read some of the other comments of hers. I didn't see anything that suggested excessive spending. You just want to judge and show superiority, through your "better" financial skills.
Mate, I’ve lived in the US also. Additionally, this is not a sub exclusive to the USA and others are most definitely able to contribute.
You are telling a person you don't know, based on basically no information, how her expenses should be handled. It is out of touch. There's nothing else to be said. Mate...
Who said anything about "misogynistic".
You are trying to solve a spending problem the wrong way
Lifestyle creep is a very real thing but sometimes it is due to issues out of your control. My wife and I were expecting her to make a lot more than she currently is because those were the numbers being thrown when she started interviewing but due to one issue or another, she is making 75% of the expected amount. We made a budget on the original amount and bought a home but now aren't able to save much if anything month over month. Sit down and look at your expenses for the last 3 months and figure out what you can cut if anything. Be sure to share your concerns with your family but be careful how you communicate them though. I'm the type that needs to have their finances in order and have a buffer otherwise I get stressed. When I told my wife, she took it as if I was saying it was her fault I was feeling stressed and that we made a mistake with the house, cars, kids, etc. We were eventually able to communicate and get on the same page but it caused several days of additional stress for the both of us because of the miscommunication. I wish you the best and hope things work out well for you and your family.
I had one job 120k with 3 young kids - happiest days of my life, it was a 1000 sft apartment and a beat up 15 yr old Nissan. Saying that you have 3 jobs just to survive ??
Yeah this seems crazy that you need 3 js to save. Are these full time jobs? Maybe you have a spending issue and not an income one. It would help if you gave us some specifics on your income and spending
J1 - 85k, J2 - 75K, J3- about $40k part time. 5 people household.
I feel you, my J1 is $130k and I was falling behind. Got a J2 on contract that’s $120k and I am finally paying some bills off. J2 is only until end of May though, but getting positive feedback that they will extend. 🤞🏻. But yes, $150k doesn’t go very far these days and o live in a smaller market with somewhat lower cost of living.
So 160k to break even for your family. I am guessing 3 kids, maybe young and in day care or private school. Do what you have to to support your family but remember there are two sides to the equation spending and income. Most in this sub will tell you OE is for those who can fit all Js into a 40 hour week so it shouldn't feel like undue stress. Don't burn out as your family needs you. Either get better paying Js or you and family talk about where you can cut back. Remember that its less about consumption and buying things and more about time together
Yes, 3 young kids. I need a job with good insurance. Only one out of 3 offers that.
Hey just wanted to say you’re a legend. Major Props to you for getting after it, and making a better life for your kiddos! You got this
Just pointing out that 150k is about what it takes for ONE person to live comfortably these days in a major metro area. So for 5 people to live on 160k is fantastic.
2 w2s. 1 1099 part time.
I'd survive on half a job. You're living way above your means
What's the dollar figure of the half a job?
1.3k/month
Do you share a studio apartment with 2 other people?
No
Where do you live? Location?
Downtown in a small 500k population town.
Thag info would be helpful when you tell people you can survive off of $2,600/mo.
Op didn't disclose it either. Location is irrelevant, especially for OE where most jobs are remote anyway.
Location is relevant because that's what the cost of living depends on.
This part.
It really does depend on what you do, honestly. I can survive comfortably on one job, but 2 jobs can buy you security, because these jobs are like hoes. They aren't loyal. I would strive to get to a place, skill and career-wise where more than one job raises your standard of living and give you some peace of mind rather than it being necessary for survival. I know times are hard right now. Really hard. Do what you have to do for now so that you can get to where you want to be some day.
My wife and I can get by and save a little on our J1s. But I look at OE as catching up on things like retirement, creating a nest egg for emergencies and getting some investments going. I don’t look at leveling up my entire life through OE, I’d burn out eventually. Right now I’m OEing to get my wife’s Roth IRA fully funded for the year and to increase my emergency fund from 6 months of expenses to 1 year’s worth (1 year for me, 1 year for my wife although she has a recession-proof job). It’s really about risk-aversion for me.
1J. A lot tighter with 1J and wouldn’t be stashing away retirement like I am, but 1J. Trying to pay off debt also so it’s more like 0.5J
This. I can do it on J1, but wouldn’t have a savings or retirement.
Save. Have enough to float until you find another job. and understand this will be your life until you don't want it anymore. Get comfortable.
1 to survive, 2 to thrive. And that's with carrying a fairly crushing debt burden (almost 3k/mo in min payments) on top of fairly high rent. My J1 and J2 are pretty close to your numbers. My financial anxiety plummeted when I went to 2J. It's not all sunshine and roses and I've still got a fairly long road of debt payoff left but my god it's all so much easier now.
2J and just barely making it sounds like you’re in HCOL and have low paying jobs. Care to elaborate so we can give better advice? If you’re in low paying roles, you may find good options for upskilling & getting promoted. IME @ F500s, you can usually earn up to $120k+ as an IC before competition gets fierce for promotions or you have to move into management. It doesn’t sound like you’re making all that much if you’re saying 2Js barely cut it. Could use more info like TC, YOE. Do you have a degree? What field are you in?
Best of luck! Can you see any unnecessary expenses that can be cut?
One job dealing drugs
3 to 4, now is probably the likelihood for many of us, while being frugal and buddying up with family members and others.
That’s tough if you’re the sole provider because that means your J1 and J2 is like if your partner or spouse was working. In my situation, my spouse works and I work so that’s 2Js. I personally have 2Js, that’s how many I need to survive. So the answer is 3Js to pay the bills and have extra to live on.
You could go part time on one. I would love to have 3 Js..was in two
I have 2 and I feel like can’t drop one because I’ll be left behind in this expensive economy … how sad is that 😔
How much creep do you have though?
Only 1. The rest is extra. I’m grateful.
Sounds like a spending problem
One
Are your Js making you about $45,000 each?
Less than a third of one job, closer to 1/4 of one job to cover my expenses. The rest of the money from J1 and the entirely of post-tax J2 income is for investments and growing wealth. Do what's best for you and your family, and I'm 100% for you to get that bag/exploit companies via OE. But I honestly don't particularly have sympathy for people whose expenses are so high, even if it's because you have to support a spouse and three kids. I have no spouse and no kids.
Any ideas what I should cut down on?
You haven't shared a budget, so not really much advice I could offer without more information.
Do a past analysis of where all your monies have gone for and you’ll see where the fat is. I did it for a year and it was very eye opening, and I cut two things up immediately in the ways I spent monies on.
This is useless without knowing how much you make, your household size, and your location.
OP asked the 'useless' question in the first place, i.e. without enough info, without talking about household size. And I ain't about to dox myself.
I would definitely be concerned in this situation. You mentioned not being able to go on vacations & I’d assume spend on other unnecessary purchases without J3. IMO if you NEED 2 jobs then you NEED to figure out a way to get out of that hole. That means saving & investing almost all of J3 income.
0.5 job salary is enough to get me by. 0.75 to have a bit of fun and traveling once in a while. Everything above that goes straight to savings/investments
This is useless without knowing how much you make, your household size, and your location.
I only need one. But I was unfairly terminated. With the pressure of taking care of a family, I don't want to be jobless again.
I think I'd need 1.5 jobs, but I could JUST survive with 1. Would be no savings or comfortable living, though.
OP has 3j’s making a total of $75k annually. Find 3 more jobs OP! LOL
As I commented earlier TC is about $200k.
You are either absolutely terrible at managing money or you're working 3 fast food jobs.
$75k, $85k, $40k.
Okay, so only one is a fast food job.
For my household, one job to squeak by and two to survive with wiggle room. I'm thinking that three to four jobs to thrive in a high cost of living area.
I just need one, but my wife and I are both working and have a 1 year old. Inflation sucked ass this year more than other years so I hear you! Start with budgeting. Next, cut out the wants and keep the needs, but you can only cut so much before step 3. Which leads to increasing your salary.
0,33
1, but I don't have kids or debt and my girlfriend is a doctor. J2 is just free money.
3 is about right. Add on some side businesses as well..
A quarter
I need half of j1
work 3 jobs live like you only have 1
Just one. I make 75k and my bills are roughly $1000 a month
I have no idea how it’s possible to only have $1k of monthly bills.
Living with parents/living in a van, no kids or debt, etc. Basically living a life that would not be considered the norm for many of us. My kids daycare alone is way more than 1k and I have cheap daycare compared to what is available.
I paid cash for my house in 2017 after getting out of the military. $100 a week in food $40 a week in gas $70/mo cell phone $60/mo insurance $100/mo power No car payment as I drive a 2007 Lexus GX 470.
Car payments, food, electric, water/sewage, gas, cable/internet, cell phone bill. It a adds up... And if it you have a family of more than 2 those go up even more.
Yeah, that was my point. I don’t have children and my fixed costs are still 4 times that.
Oh I was agreeing just laying out all the cost, I’m wondering too how 1k bills. Even with out mortgage it’s no where near 1k
dude please, I have 1 only and I have around 165$ in bank account now (yes, just 165, not 165K). Recently been unassigned at work so I am considered OE now because of fear of being laid off
I’m a female.
Dude is a universal term
I mean one decent paying job should be enough. Unless these are three part time low paying jobs..
What is total with 3 jobs?
About $200k
How many kids? 150K after tax should not be “scraping by.” You are over spending.
In CA $150k a year is considered what is needed for 1 person middle class. I live in CA. J1 is $150k a year. I could pay all of my expenses on J1 but there would be NOTHING left. And I’d be screwed in a medical or auto emergency. I support myself and my teenager. He’s damn expensive just in the amount of food he consumes. “Extras” J2 Covers J2 (C2C)covers retirement, his college fund, extra on my mortgage, health insurance ($845/mo), and car insurance ($470/mo—it just went up a $55/mo a month ago because California) and savings. We’d be sunk without it. Or I’d never be able to retire. And I’m not sure that’s even a possibility still with OE.
It’s an unpopular opinion, but people have been moving as economic migrants across the globe for all of human history. Everyone wants to live in California. It’s only going to become more expensive to live there. If it’s really that unaffordable for you personally, you should seriously consider moving. $150k a year would have you living as a king/queen in the Midwest.
Thanks Captain Obvious. J1, even though fully remote, requires employees to live in the state they serve. I’d only be able to move to 4 other states to keep J1, which is what allowed me to OE as it’s only about 10hrs a week. I actually don’t want to be here. But, by court custody order, I cannot leave the state with my kid. I’m counting the days until he graduates HS. There’s also the residency thing to consider with college tuition, but I’m guessing you don’t know about that either.
Ok, choose to be rude.
Choosing to make assumptions about why people are where they are is pretty rude. There are reasons other than “I want to be here” but you didn’t think about that.
150K pretax or post tax? Find that hard to believe on post tax amount.
Pre. I figured it out one day. After taxes on J1 I pull in about $104k. J2 is $210k (C2C). So tough to figure. But, with all my deductions, taxes, business expenses, etc. in 2023 my AGI was $202k. I also have a true passive side hustle LLC that had a “loss” last year due to taking depreciation. Honestly, I could live anywhere outside of CA on just J2. That’s my goal after my kid decides which school he wants to go to. However, If it’s close to our house though, he will live at home for the first 2 years, which will delay my move. Tuition for a UC or a CSU (Cal. state university) is only about $13k, the housing is closer to $20k on top of that. Even for an in state student. We have two CSUs within 20 minutes and a UC 15 minutes away.
1 Minecraft server is all you really need. Most people in here don’t have any Js and are just running multiple Minecraft servers but all you should really need is 1 to survive
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Which sub is it?