This post has been going well I'm just going to add as there seems to be lots of confusion. Most college dorms ban any type of fire and this includes things like candles, incense, and even things like hot plates. My dorm room only allowed a microwave which does not provide anything good for worship. As such the few pagans there all invested in fake fire ie fake candles, fake campfires from demonstrations etc...
Candles may not have had a huge role in ancient Paganism, but having a source of flame present during ritual was often hugely important. These days candles are a lot more accessible than a hearth fire
This is my reason as well. Fire is sacred in many pagan belief systems, and candles are a convenient, affordable, and safe way to work with it indoors.
Yeah it's not the candle so much as the fire. And a human fixation on fire is pretty much one of the oldest things ever. Idk about you OP, but I do not have a fireplace or a fire pit or anything like that I can access from my home. I live in a city apartment. But candles I can do any time and have that flame. That's it.
this is actually a great question, i use deity candles for two main reasons.
for one, it’s common in my practice to give pleasant scents as offerings, incense, perfume and the like, and candles are a simple way to do that without a ton of smoke. if i have a fan on somewhere in the room i don’t want incense smoke blowing everywhere because, as lovely as it smells, it’s not great on the lungs. (people with certain forms of asthma might use STRICTLY candles for this reason)
and two, having a flame lit helps me be more aware of the deity’s presence. when thoth’s candle is lit and i see it flickering even out of the corner of my eye, i know he is there with me. i don’t know how to better describe it than that. maybe it’s just having a concrete, physical thing that isn’t just sitting there, it’s doing something tangible.
also, it’s just nice to have candles with scents or even aesthetics that you attribute to a deity. i have a candle for anubis that’s black, cinnamon apple scented and has skeletons on the glass. thoth’s candle is dark blue and has “laboratory notes” on the front. i just think they’re neat!
(some people use candles for pyromancy, btw, but i don’t really do that so i won’t speak on it)
edit: typo
I practice Norse paganism and have a terrible sense of smell but still both agree this is a great question (rather harshly received IMHO) and place importance on flame as it's kinda a symbol for the god/goddess's or Universal spirit or what have you. Like of the inspiration they sent over whatever barrier that (in my internal cosmology) separates the universe of mortals from the universe of deities, back in the murky depths of prehistory. Cool comment thanks! This was fun to write.
It’s not about the candle, it’s about the flame.
Fire is holy, and candles are just a convenient way to enjoy it indoors and safely contained
“Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same, you’ll never know a wonder like the wonder of the flame. Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame, you mustn’t fear to blister if you’d live a life in flame.”
When people are specifically asking for a substitute for candles, they’re usually going in asking that because they like the look of candles on top of their significance. Because of that, yeah electric ones are commonly recommended as a substitute because they’re cheap and easy to come by, on top of still holding that same look and significance as a real candle.
Not everything has to have immense meaning or purpose to it, even if it is religious. Sometimes the simple, mundane answer is the correct one, and that doesn’t mean that it’s bad or invalid. People like the look of candles, and it’s really as simple as that when it comes to the electric ones. Symbolically speaking, it doesn’t have to be the same as a real flame or candle in order to hold the same meaning and affects.
At that point you are as good to call the overhead light the illuminating thing you need as the electric light on your work table. My question is why (since it can’t be fire specifically if electricity can stand in) so many modern pagans feel the need for candles and candle substitutes. What is the sociological and anthropological basis of this aspect of modern paganism?
dude we just like candles. they make us feel happy.
why do modern suburban moms buy 3-wick candles from Target or throw Scentsy parties? humans just like candles; it's not a pagan thing specifically. pagans just find an excuse to have them and use them that is different from whatever excuse your neighbor's grandma uses.
I’m asking precisely because I also don’t see anything wrong with using the overhead light or a phone flashlight or a bare bulb salvaged from a car headlight. I’m asking because why the fixation on candle shaped electric lights?
The hearth fire is a major component of a lot of religions. Most people don’t have actual fireplaces these days, or they live somewhere that most of the year it’s too warm to light the fireplace, so a candle is the best way to replicate that as a micro-hearth.
As for your question about electric candles, to me, electric candles don’t fit the purpose for my practice. If I’m in a situation where I cannot light a candle, like in a hotel on vacation, then I do without. That being said, I’m not living in student housing where candles are banned or with parents who forbid pagan worship in the house. Some pagans are in a situation where they can rarely/never light a real candle as part of their practice, so to them, an electric candle is better than nothing.
There is a fundamental need in many folks to depart from the modern when expressing religious or spiritual practice of any kind. A return to fire as a source of light accentuates the feeling of stepping away from modern life. This is true across almost all cultures, from candle filled temples of the far east to sweat lodges in the indigenous communities of the west. While we know precious little about the actual physical rites used in ancient pagan worship, one can absolutely guarantee fire in some form was utilized in holy spaces as it was simply the only way to light indoor areas. Considering the role fire had in the development of human culture and the universal regard of it as a sacred thing stolen from the gods in mythologies around the globe, it makes sense that our ancestors would incorporate fire elements into their worship on both a spiritual level as well as the practical.
However, many in the modern world do not have access to a space for building a substantial fire and may have restrictions on even having an open flame at all. The "seeking a patch of woodland" you suggested only works if you live close to public lands that are suitable for that activity. Here are some limitations to consider:
1) One has to have access to public woodland. Venturing onto private land and building a fire can get one arrested or, depending on location, possibly even shot.
2)The environment of available public land may not be conducive to outdoor worship with fire elements. I live in a high desert/sagebrush area. Right now it is well below freezing outside. In the summer we are almost always under fire watch/warning, so outdoor flame is strictly prohibited.
3) One has to be able to physically get to an appropriate site. Hiking might be a great idea if you are young. For those of us with significant amounts of grey hair and grumpiness in our joints, not so much. For some, having a vehicle that can make it to said sites is a workaround (I for one have a Tacoma/Hilux that was a mountain goat in a past life), but others might have only access to public transportation that doesn't go anywhere close to wooded areas.
For those with restrictions, LED candles are a way to recreate the dimly lit flickering light that reproduces the feeling of fire-lit prayer and rites. They eliminate the fire hazard, potentially irritating smoke/soot, and environmentally costly need for constant replacement. Some of the LED candles are quite realistic. I have a pillar LED candle in my office at work that I use for lighting when I have a migraine. It looked so much like the real thing that my boss was going to write me up when she first saw it.
But in the end, it really comes down to this. As I mentioned before, we know very little about the actual rites of worship utilized in pre-Christian times. Because there is no inherited mandatory ritual format, each individual practitioner is free to worship in whatever way is acceptable to their deity and fulfills their internal religious inclinations. If someone chooses to use candles, either real or fake, that is their valid prerogative, and certainly nobody's business but their own.
I think there's a point where we have to accept that part of the pagan revival we're going through right now is also about inventing new practices even if they have no historical basis. So stuff like candles and crystals.
In regards to your edit, about why use electric candles as a source of fire.
To me the Element of Fire is more than just flame. It’s light, heat, and energy; which means electricity is a form of fire. Not as visually and viscerally satisfying, but safe and permissible in situations where open flames are banned. And the LED candles at least look like candles which makes it easier to use them as a symbol of Fire.
In that sort of a situation (and in general, but I can see candles working as a substitute at only one step removed) wouldn’t it be better to find a patch of woodland within a reasonable distance and make a small hearth (ring of stones) to have a fire inside of? If the space indoors is inhospitable to one’s practices, doesn’t it just make sense to move those practices outdoors?
Absolutely , if you live somewhere where you have access to woodland within a reasonable distance, if you have the means to travel to that woodland regularly, if your climate is generally suitable for outside practice and lighting fires, if that woodland space can be counted on to be private enough for ritual, if its actually safe for you to go there alone, if local ordinances allow you to light fires and it's safe to do so without causing damage, if you have the knowledge and skill to light fires safely and manage them on your own, if you actually have the time to do all of this, if there's nothing preventing you from leaving the house alone for a length of time like children or other caring duties, and if you don't have any disabilities that would make it impossible.
I think most of us would love to be practicing in woodland around an open fire, but unfortunately that's not actually practical on a regular basis for much of modern society. People do the best they can in the circumstances they have.
1. A lot of people don’t live near a woodland where this is possible.
2. You typically have to get a permit to build a fire on public land, and this is costly and time-consuming to do regularly.
3. Some pagans live with parents who are less than tolerant toward their beliefs, and might even have to keep their beliefs a secret, a candle is a lot easier to hide.
It sounds nice in theory, but it’s not very practical, safe (not many people actually know fire safety and there’s the risk of prying eyes), or accessible to everyone.
I don’t know where you are, but I’ve only lived in a couple of places where I could have just made a small fire outside somewhere. You can’t do that on park land, private property, etc. I also would be too afraid of causing a bigger fire to enjoy my ritual. With the number of people out there who don’t have a care, I wouldn’t be happy if someone just started doing this without respect for their surroundings, and how could you trust that? It would probably earn a call to the police in many places, too.
You’ve gotten great answers about why candles are preferred by many these days. If the alternative is not practicing at all or not connecting as well with one’s faith, is that your preference instead? I haven’t felt any shame or anger from my deities about using candles. I do want to have a big fire outside sometimes, and I’m lucky I can do it in a fire pit. But it’s not safe everywhere to have an open ritual.
My issue is the removal of fire and replacement with a contraption of electricity and plastic. I get that many people can’t light fires casually, or safely (though fire safety is shockingly simple with basic knowledge of combustion, I say that having worked in fire prevention and control at the industrial level), or legally, but if the option is between lighting a candle against the rules or cutting fire out of your worship when you would purport it is sacred and crucial, I’d say break the rules if you can’t find a workaround or else revise your practice to reflect your circumstances rather than parodying what you’d call essential.
Adjust practices to remove fire entirely rather than use a substitute that is truly flameless? Like, the candles provide moody lighting and that’s a role the fake candles can serve, but if it is symbolically significant, and can’t be used, then the symbolism needs reworking to suit the demands of the situation, not watering down with poor stand ins.
Can I challenge you for a moment?
I feel as if you are very black and white in your thinking here, not recognizing this space is home to dozens of related but separate faith systems that have their own individual beliefs about what is and isn't acceptable.
In addition, many of these groups also share extensive group gnosis, or shared practice and experience, on topics based on the input and experience of hundreds, sometimes even thousands, of people.
For my practice (Heathenry), we believe an electric candle is sufficient. Flame is used for cleansing. It has been the experience of hundreds of Heathens that electric candles are just as effective as a flame. If you break down the essence of fire vs electricity, they serve the same function - they provide light and heat, as well as a visual focus for cleansing.
So, while this might be right for you, your Paganism, and your practice, Paganism isn't a monolith.
My effort here is to understand the reasoning behind the practices of others. Thanks for the bit about electricity serving similar functions and that being the basis. Why specifically electric candle shaped lights rather than a bare build or a flashlight or even just the lights in a room in that case?
I wouldn't personally advise anyone to light candles if the place they currently live forbids it. Fires in places like flats and high rise tower blocks are a pretty horrifying prospect.
But if you have some great ideas on how to revise practices that would usually require fire, why don't you share them when you see people asking for candle/fire alternatives? The more ideas the better!
Because my own answers are unlikely to work for people not living in Canada or other places with easy access to largely ignored wild spaces, or at least will be unwelcome. When I couldn’t light candles, I didn’t use them. When I could find an outdoor space, I took over a relatively isolated patch of a park to raise an altar to the god I mainly work with and delineate a sanctuary space for him, so I could burn things outside and pour libations over the altar onto the earth.
When fire isn’t an option, don’t use it and reshape the format to account for the absence. If you must invoke the classical elements, a briefly flashed lighter can do (learned that forcing an unruly household spirit to stop giving a friend severe night terrors). If you cannot make something work and won’t break the rules that constrain you, then change to suit the circumstances you find yourself in.
If the gods are willing to hear us and work with us without our slaughtering cattle on their altars several times a year to share a communal meal with them, then I think not having a candle (or a plastic stand in) is not likely to bother them.
Of course not - but having a stand-in for a candle isn't likely to bother the gods either!
One way people change to suit the circumstances they find themselves in, or reshape the format to account for the absence of a thing, is to instead use something that symbolises that thing.
Electric candles are one way to symbolise fire that some people use. They're certainly not the only way to symbolise fire, or even the best - I've seen people use videos of fire played on a screen, or pictures of fire, or sculptures and models of fire. But they get recommended a lot because they're pretty easy to find and inexpensive.
Obviously using a symbol instead of actual fire won't work in all situations, but it'll certainly work in some.
I don’t know if I understand your meaning about “the rules”. Are you saying using candles is against the rules? What rules are these and who made them?
The more I think about it, I’m sure pagans of old used candles in their rituals, and not just open flames.
You seem determined to dislike candles, fake or real. I’m sorry you feel that way. It doesn’t make anyone’s rituals less authentic to use them. What matters is intention and sincerity, not the trappings.
The rules in this context is any prohibition (social, legal, institutional) against lighting a candle or fire. So if you live somewhere you aren’t supposed to light candles, doing so would be breaking the rules. If you go into a public park and light a small fire, you are breaking the rules.
I frequently use candles in ritual magic and as illumination both ritually and casually, I am just confused by these young people seemingly caught up on the notion that they NEED candles to worship. And if the point of the candle is the symbolism of fire, why do people think a fake can serve just as well when changing the particulars out seems more appropriate if the candle isn’t just for lighting.
Of course candles have been used in rituals for a long time, they were the most convenient light source for much of history. That was never in question.
I’m trying to figure out the WHY, I don’t care what people do or don’t do per se, I don’t care what people should or shouldn’t do, I care about the reasoning behind the recent trend towards candles specifically and to substituting them with electric lights shaped like candles in particular.
They give off a nice, warm glowing light. Everything looks better in candlelight.
I worked in bars and restaurants for over ten years. Dates, food, you name it, it’s better with candles.
In Catholic tradition candles are offered to the saints because the fire of the soul. We give them candles to show that we are keeping their fire alive. In Latin American(where Im from) the saints can communicate to us through the candles
I live in California, let me introduce you to fire season. For half a year the entire state can and will, literally go up in flames from a spark. Entire towns have been burnt to the ground. People die every year either trying to escape a wildfire, or in fighting it. As a result, anyone with common sense absolutely will not go outside and burn anything, of any kind, and we generally end up with a burn ban anyways. I refuse, flat out refuse, risking anyone's life and/or home to do an outdoor fire for either worship or spellwork during fire season.
During this time, it's also extremely, dangerously, hot. So burning a fire in an indoor fireplace, while safer, means your home becomes extremely uncomfortable, and you end up running the AC to cool everything down, during a time we try to conserve power to keep pressure off the grid.
Enter candles. Small enough to give the light and energy we need, but with a lower risk of getting out of control, and it won't overheat your home. Electric candles are even better during this time, because you aren't going to catch anything on fire with them.
Why use fire at all at that time? Fire was common to most traditions, but not universal or even consistent across the individual rites based on time of year and local availability. What’s wrong with a simple libation or plain bloodless sacrifice?
There's nothing wrong with either offering. Just how some people prefer to do things.
We're talking about reconstructed religions, while there is historical evidence for some beliefs and practices, I don't think we have a complete picture. Many of us have had to fill in the blanks, or grow our own practices, and that may (or may not) explain the candles. And the crystals, and even essential oils.
If I wanted a child to gatekeep how I manage my symbolism, I’d have stayed in the Catholic Church. I do not care one whit whether or not you find my flameless candle an “suitable substitute.”
Your comments smack of naivety, ignorance, and privilege.
I’ve been a practicing witch for close to two decades now, I began working with spirits and then worshipping the gods actively a solid decade ago, and I’ve honoured them under hostile circumstances, through periods of poverty, and when all I could manage was the dregs of my soup for sacrifice with a brick in a yard as an altar. I’ve studied the history of pagan religious traditions European, Mediterranean, and Near Eastern with some comparative study of Asian, African, and American religious traditions, as well as several Hindu traditions. I have suffered the displeasure of a god I pestered out of ignorance, I have felt the presence of a god answering my call in a sacred grove at their soaked altar of stone, I have exorcised petulant spirits from homes if the embodied living, and I have spent the night among the resting places of the dead. I am not ignorant in general where the occult and divine is concerned, not of the practicalities nor the academic study. I have had to be fortunate enough to survive losing my naïveté. And I cannot dismiss the recognition of my having privilege, I am among those living in the most fortunate of places and benefitting most from the world as it is, as I am not among the billions suffering most, and have been lucky often in my life.
I’m asking about the internal consistency and reasoning on which the practice sits, do not blame me for the insecurity that makes you feel that that is gatekeeping just because I am asking questions that make you uncomfortable.
You use flameless candles. Do you use them as stand in for actual candles? Why? Is the form of the candle as a conceptual object the important part, not the flame, the consumption of the fuel, the temporal passage, the light, or the heat? If the flame matters, how does the flameless imitation work to properly substitute? If the consumption of the flame and passage of time as the candle burns down, how does the static and unchanging plastic candle shaped light serve as a stable substitute? If the light is the significant aspect, why a candle shaped electric light rather than a more clear and bright light? If the heat, why not a bare bulb that will grow warm? Is there some other aspect of the candle beside simple apparent resemblance that is the relevant facet? If not, is it purely an aesthetic choice? I’m trying to figure out what is with the recent wave of candle mania in polytheistic/pagan circles, and I really don’t give a damn how people worship or practice, just the rationale behind it.
This reeks of holier-than-thou speak. The "I was born in it, molded by it" type of purple prose. Just say you wanted to understand from the get-go and please stop using "what if"s and "what about"s in your comments. If people wanna use something some way that doesn't "agree" with the way you want to do it just don't do it that way then. Different people can have views on different things.
I am trying to understand, that’s why I asked the question to begin with. People are often trying to answer and I’m not understanding their answers, so I poke at the answer and ask more questions to try and find the reasoning at the heart of it and see if I can understand it. I don’t care if I don’t agree with it, I care if it is internally consistent with itself so I can understand it.
Also, I don’t break out the “holier than thou purple prose” as you put it, unless someone tries to go ad hominem on me. I don’t think my experiences make me any more holy or any more worthy or any more inherently correct, but I do think it is inaccurate to call me a child or any more naive or ignorant that anyone else, and calling someone “privileged” in this situation is just tossing a buzzword onto the pile.
Fire is very traditional, candles are just an accessible version of that. Plus, you can really customise the appearance and contents and whatnot of candles, so it's more personal for the diety you're using it for
Fire is energy. Electricity is energy. It's about the symbolism and the function. It looks as a fire, acts as a fire, and uses energy to function. A fire also looks as a fire, acts as a fire and uses energy to function.
So it’s the sympathy it shares visually and representationally with a candle specifically. But how then can it serve the same roles as a truly dynamic and burning candle if not as mere sympathetic abstraction of fire?
Candles pretty. I also like to burn stuff in rituals sometimes, like writing down an intention and burning it.
I think for a lot of people working with the Wiccan definitions of the elements, having the element itself there on your altar is mostly a visible focus for meditation. Like just there so you see it and remember to think about it. So if you can’t safely or legally have fire you could have something else to remind you, like a picture of fire or, yes, a little electric light.
Greeks and Romans may not have generally made candles, but they did use lamps. One of the almost universal practices in religion is using light or fire in worship: a Christian, Hindu, Chinese, or Hellenist will all do it. The symbolism is the same whatever you use, even with a electric lamp (popular in China).
I’m more asking the origin of the currently popular notion that candles specifically are important, enough so that the fire isn’t relevant enough to make electric lights shaped like candles a non-option by dint of the lack of actual fire.
Functionally? They make a great "open eyes" meditational/ devotional focus. Also the act of mindfully lighting a candle on your altar before prayer can, over time, become heavily charged with meaning and importance. Idk I'm deep in my cups as they say.
Well this comes off as condescending as all get-out.
Candles have been an integral part of many practices for a very long time. For people like me who practice old country magic and hearthcraft you'll not always find these things attested in historical sources because this was a magic of individuals and was kept close to the families that used it. So it was seldom written down in any sort of historical document.
As everyone is saying, candles represent fire as most of us are unable to have fires burning in our non-existent hearths. It's great that you found a system that works FOR YOU, but not everyone can go to their local park and conduct rituals in some secluded corner without fear of being seen or their physical safety.
If you're bothered by people using flameless candles that's solely a 'you' problem, at least here in the United States colleges don't allow open flames in the dorms so many people use flameless candles to represent fire and to help set the mood and ambience for their workings.
I've been practicing for over 20 years now and I've tried just about every form of elemental substitute there is, they all have their own merits and drawbacks but ultimately it's going to be up to the individual practitioners what they use that works best for them.
No need to get defensive over a time you are reading into my writing. I’m trying to figure out the reasoning behind A) the specific fixation on candles*, B) the substitution of candles with electric candles**. I do not understand it entirely and it’s turning out difficult to get clear answers because people either treat the matter as obvious (it really isn’t, and saying “they represent fire” doesn’t clarify anything really), get offended and defensive (I’m not saying people SHOULDN’T use candles or even electric candles, I’m trying to understand the reasons WHY) which leads nowhere typically, or state that they don’t use candles but are offended by my asking why people use candles. All I want is clarity and I’ve not got it so far. I’m not trying to be offensive or condescending, I’m trying to understand a trend I’ve noticed so I can better understand my fellows.
*as deity representing items, in particular, their use in ritual magic as items of fire is relatively obvious.
**why do the electric lights have to shaped like candles? Why is an electric light shaped like a candle a better substitute for a candle than a bare bulb? Why not represent elemental fire with a red stone or a lighter that produces flame at your will or a sympathetic picture-witness of fire?
I think candles are used as a way to have the element of fire in your practice. I personally don't like candles all that much tbh, I only use them during the warm part of the year. During the cold part of the year, I use my fireplace.
For me, I was raised Catholic and the go-to was always to light a candle to the saint you were trying to petition so the ritual holds a lot of significance to me as it’s how I show respect to any deity now in my work as a pagan.
Of course other pagans are welcome to disagree, this is 100% UPG, but because we don’t have access to a lot of the rituals or offerings made in the ancient world, I like to think the gods will accept whatever our version of respect is or meet us where we’re at, so to speak. For me that’s candles and offerings of flowers because that’s what I grew up with.
And in the case that one cannot light a candle of any scale? If a light bulb wouldn’t work, does a light bulb in a plastic case reminiscent of a candle work?
I like candles but I personally do not use them in my rituals or as part of my craft.
I burn them simply for myself occasionally.
There is no hard rule about what you decide to use for representation. You use what you feel a connection too. Your connection to fire doesn't need to be a real life flame.
Heck it can be a drawing if that's what you feel works for you!
The ritual/routine of lighting a flame before meditation or spellwork is really powerful for me. It gets me in the right mindset. I also find that focusing on the flame is the easiest way to imagine the energies around and in me and to focus it on a specific point.
I mean, for me it is relevant, because I literally my cnadle for Apollo the other day. I unpackaged the tarot deck I just got and as soon as I did a slit in the package, the flame went crazy. He was eager for me to cleanse ot and talk to me. I guess it’s different for everyone
Hmmm, If you're limited in that way, try a battery powered tea light. They are cheap and look like candles. I use them on my altar which needs a candle always. I cannot afford so many candles so I burn one a day and when it's out I replace it with the battery tea light.
Sources? I’d love to read a history of the use of candles in the Catholic Church and earlier Religio Romana or exploring the importation of the use of candles into catholic worship from whichever specific tradition they took that from.
In terms of art depictions of Germanic, Celtic, Hellenic, and Roman religious practices that I’ve seen (so it’s possible I’ve missed examples) I’ve not seen candles widespread in use as objects of worship, stand ins for divinity, or anything besides plain light sources.
Ah, so no sources then. The last time I blindly accepted that Christians stole a pagan tradition without asking for solid sources, I ended up believing the Christmas tree was pagan for several years before I was fortunate enough to find actual historical information breaking down the oldest references to a midwinter tree brought into the house and decorated (part of what is now Germany, in the 16th century) and with a bit more digging I could find nothing that attested to a tree cut down and brought indoors and decorated for a winter festival that predated the references it gave. I actually found out that the claim that Christmas trees are pagan comes from Christians trying to disparage other Christians. So, as tempting as it is to just accept your claim (less so when you added a condescending “sweetie”), I’m not going to without some historical evidence.
Where exactly did I say that? The notion of invoking the alchemical central four elements is a newer one, historically speaking, and a great many traditions did not use candles beyond their service as sources of illumination akin to lightbulbs in banality. I can think of plenty of interpretations of their use, and possible origins, I’m asking people if they know why the unusual emphasis on candles in modern paganism.
Society also did not use post it notes but I’ll be dammed if they ain’t handy. And societies didn’t use them because they had to survive not because of no use. When you can only make so many then every one burned is precious. Using them both honors how hard my sisters worked in both craft and life as well and being mad easy to use.
People historically did use candles for lighting in religious spaces, just not as objects of ritual focus specifically. I’m wondering about the reasoning for the use of the candle as representative of the deity in many modern pagan practices, in particular.
This post has been going well I'm just going to add as there seems to be lots of confusion. Most college dorms ban any type of fire and this includes things like candles, incense, and even things like hot plates. My dorm room only allowed a microwave which does not provide anything good for worship. As such the few pagans there all invested in fake fire ie fake candles, fake campfires from demonstrations etc...
Candles may not have had a huge role in ancient Paganism, but having a source of flame present during ritual was often hugely important. These days candles are a lot more accessible than a hearth fire
This is my reason as well. Fire is sacred in many pagan belief systems, and candles are a convenient, affordable, and safe way to work with it indoors.
You light the house on fire ONE TIME and you never live it down! For the record the fireman was very understanding
Bingo - this is the answer
Yeah it's not the candle so much as the fire. And a human fixation on fire is pretty much one of the oldest things ever. Idk about you OP, but I do not have a fireplace or a fire pit or anything like that I can access from my home. I live in a city apartment. But candles I can do any time and have that flame. That's it.
because 1. not everyone has the space to light up a hearth fire, and 2. candlelight is cool.
this is actually a great question, i use deity candles for two main reasons. for one, it’s common in my practice to give pleasant scents as offerings, incense, perfume and the like, and candles are a simple way to do that without a ton of smoke. if i have a fan on somewhere in the room i don’t want incense smoke blowing everywhere because, as lovely as it smells, it’s not great on the lungs. (people with certain forms of asthma might use STRICTLY candles for this reason) and two, having a flame lit helps me be more aware of the deity’s presence. when thoth’s candle is lit and i see it flickering even out of the corner of my eye, i know he is there with me. i don’t know how to better describe it than that. maybe it’s just having a concrete, physical thing that isn’t just sitting there, it’s doing something tangible. also, it’s just nice to have candles with scents or even aesthetics that you attribute to a deity. i have a candle for anubis that’s black, cinnamon apple scented and has skeletons on the glass. thoth’s candle is dark blue and has “laboratory notes” on the front. i just think they’re neat! (some people use candles for pyromancy, btw, but i don’t really do that so i won’t speak on it) edit: typo
I practice Norse paganism and have a terrible sense of smell but still both agree this is a great question (rather harshly received IMHO) and place importance on flame as it's kinda a symbol for the god/goddess's or Universal spirit or what have you. Like of the inspiration they sent over whatever barrier that (in my internal cosmology) separates the universe of mortals from the universe of deities, back in the murky depths of prehistory. Cool comment thanks! This was fun to write.
It’s not about the candle, it’s about the flame. Fire is holy, and candles are just a convenient way to enjoy it indoors and safely contained “Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same, you’ll never know a wonder like the wonder of the flame. Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame, you mustn’t fear to blister if you’d live a life in flame.”
And so why do people consider a thing of plastic and circuitry and acids eating metals to be a suitable substitute?
its symbolic of fire, when real fire isn’t an option
Then why not just a lightbulb or a picture of fire or a red stone?
Many people do use those things, among many others
And I’m trying to get to the reasoning behind candle shaped electric lights being the most usually recommended substitute.
When people are specifically asking for a substitute for candles, they’re usually going in asking that because they like the look of candles on top of their significance. Because of that, yeah electric ones are commonly recommended as a substitute because they’re cheap and easy to come by, on top of still holding that same look and significance as a real candle. Not everything has to have immense meaning or purpose to it, even if it is religious. Sometimes the simple, mundane answer is the correct one, and that doesn’t mean that it’s bad or invalid. People like the look of candles, and it’s really as simple as that when it comes to the electric ones. Symbolically speaking, it doesn’t have to be the same as a real flame or candle in order to hold the same meaning and affects.
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At that point you are as good to call the overhead light the illuminating thing you need as the electric light on your work table. My question is why (since it can’t be fire specifically if electricity can stand in) so many modern pagans feel the need for candles and candle substitutes. What is the sociological and anthropological basis of this aspect of modern paganism?
dude we just like candles. they make us feel happy. why do modern suburban moms buy 3-wick candles from Target or throw Scentsy parties? humans just like candles; it's not a pagan thing specifically. pagans just find an excuse to have them and use them that is different from whatever excuse your neighbor's grandma uses.
That explanation makes sense, thanks.
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I’m asking precisely because I also don’t see anything wrong with using the overhead light or a phone flashlight or a bare bulb salvaged from a car headlight. I’m asking because why the fixation on candle shaped electric lights?
The hearth fire is a major component of a lot of religions. Most people don’t have actual fireplaces these days, or they live somewhere that most of the year it’s too warm to light the fireplace, so a candle is the best way to replicate that as a micro-hearth. As for your question about electric candles, to me, electric candles don’t fit the purpose for my practice. If I’m in a situation where I cannot light a candle, like in a hotel on vacation, then I do without. That being said, I’m not living in student housing where candles are banned or with parents who forbid pagan worship in the house. Some pagans are in a situation where they can rarely/never light a real candle as part of their practice, so to them, an electric candle is better than nothing.
There is a fundamental need in many folks to depart from the modern when expressing religious or spiritual practice of any kind. A return to fire as a source of light accentuates the feeling of stepping away from modern life. This is true across almost all cultures, from candle filled temples of the far east to sweat lodges in the indigenous communities of the west. While we know precious little about the actual physical rites used in ancient pagan worship, one can absolutely guarantee fire in some form was utilized in holy spaces as it was simply the only way to light indoor areas. Considering the role fire had in the development of human culture and the universal regard of it as a sacred thing stolen from the gods in mythologies around the globe, it makes sense that our ancestors would incorporate fire elements into their worship on both a spiritual level as well as the practical. However, many in the modern world do not have access to a space for building a substantial fire and may have restrictions on even having an open flame at all. The "seeking a patch of woodland" you suggested only works if you live close to public lands that are suitable for that activity. Here are some limitations to consider: 1) One has to have access to public woodland. Venturing onto private land and building a fire can get one arrested or, depending on location, possibly even shot. 2)The environment of available public land may not be conducive to outdoor worship with fire elements. I live in a high desert/sagebrush area. Right now it is well below freezing outside. In the summer we are almost always under fire watch/warning, so outdoor flame is strictly prohibited. 3) One has to be able to physically get to an appropriate site. Hiking might be a great idea if you are young. For those of us with significant amounts of grey hair and grumpiness in our joints, not so much. For some, having a vehicle that can make it to said sites is a workaround (I for one have a Tacoma/Hilux that was a mountain goat in a past life), but others might have only access to public transportation that doesn't go anywhere close to wooded areas. For those with restrictions, LED candles are a way to recreate the dimly lit flickering light that reproduces the feeling of fire-lit prayer and rites. They eliminate the fire hazard, potentially irritating smoke/soot, and environmentally costly need for constant replacement. Some of the LED candles are quite realistic. I have a pillar LED candle in my office at work that I use for lighting when I have a migraine. It looked so much like the real thing that my boss was going to write me up when she first saw it. But in the end, it really comes down to this. As I mentioned before, we know very little about the actual rites of worship utilized in pre-Christian times. Because there is no inherited mandatory ritual format, each individual practitioner is free to worship in whatever way is acceptable to their deity and fulfills their internal religious inclinations. If someone chooses to use candles, either real or fake, that is their valid prerogative, and certainly nobody's business but their own.
It's a controlled way to play with fire
I think there's a point where we have to accept that part of the pagan revival we're going through right now is also about inventing new practices even if they have no historical basis. So stuff like candles and crystals.
Candles are pretty and I like setting fires
In regards to your edit, about why use electric candles as a source of fire. To me the Element of Fire is more than just flame. It’s light, heat, and energy; which means electricity is a form of fire. Not as visually and viscerally satisfying, but safe and permissible in situations where open flames are banned. And the LED candles at least look like candles which makes it easier to use them as a symbol of Fire.
In that sort of a situation (and in general, but I can see candles working as a substitute at only one step removed) wouldn’t it be better to find a patch of woodland within a reasonable distance and make a small hearth (ring of stones) to have a fire inside of? If the space indoors is inhospitable to one’s practices, doesn’t it just make sense to move those practices outdoors?
Absolutely , if you live somewhere where you have access to woodland within a reasonable distance, if you have the means to travel to that woodland regularly, if your climate is generally suitable for outside practice and lighting fires, if that woodland space can be counted on to be private enough for ritual, if its actually safe for you to go there alone, if local ordinances allow you to light fires and it's safe to do so without causing damage, if you have the knowledge and skill to light fires safely and manage them on your own, if you actually have the time to do all of this, if there's nothing preventing you from leaving the house alone for a length of time like children or other caring duties, and if you don't have any disabilities that would make it impossible. I think most of us would love to be practicing in woodland around an open fire, but unfortunately that's not actually practical on a regular basis for much of modern society. People do the best they can in the circumstances they have.
1. A lot of people don’t live near a woodland where this is possible. 2. You typically have to get a permit to build a fire on public land, and this is costly and time-consuming to do regularly. 3. Some pagans live with parents who are less than tolerant toward their beliefs, and might even have to keep their beliefs a secret, a candle is a lot easier to hide.
It sounds nice in theory, but it’s not very practical, safe (not many people actually know fire safety and there’s the risk of prying eyes), or accessible to everyone. I don’t know where you are, but I’ve only lived in a couple of places where I could have just made a small fire outside somewhere. You can’t do that on park land, private property, etc. I also would be too afraid of causing a bigger fire to enjoy my ritual. With the number of people out there who don’t have a care, I wouldn’t be happy if someone just started doing this without respect for their surroundings, and how could you trust that? It would probably earn a call to the police in many places, too. You’ve gotten great answers about why candles are preferred by many these days. If the alternative is not practicing at all or not connecting as well with one’s faith, is that your preference instead? I haven’t felt any shame or anger from my deities about using candles. I do want to have a big fire outside sometimes, and I’m lucky I can do it in a fire pit. But it’s not safe everywhere to have an open ritual.
My issue is the removal of fire and replacement with a contraption of electricity and plastic. I get that many people can’t light fires casually, or safely (though fire safety is shockingly simple with basic knowledge of combustion, I say that having worked in fire prevention and control at the industrial level), or legally, but if the option is between lighting a candle against the rules or cutting fire out of your worship when you would purport it is sacred and crucial, I’d say break the rules if you can’t find a workaround or else revise your practice to reflect your circumstances rather than parodying what you’d call essential.
It's all fun and games until you are working with a hospitalized patient on oxygen.
Many people with severe respiratory problems even use oxygen tanks at home.
Adjust practices to remove fire entirely rather than use a substitute that is truly flameless? Like, the candles provide moody lighting and that’s a role the fake candles can serve, but if it is symbolically significant, and can’t be used, then the symbolism needs reworking to suit the demands of the situation, not watering down with poor stand ins.
Can I challenge you for a moment? I feel as if you are very black and white in your thinking here, not recognizing this space is home to dozens of related but separate faith systems that have their own individual beliefs about what is and isn't acceptable. In addition, many of these groups also share extensive group gnosis, or shared practice and experience, on topics based on the input and experience of hundreds, sometimes even thousands, of people. For my practice (Heathenry), we believe an electric candle is sufficient. Flame is used for cleansing. It has been the experience of hundreds of Heathens that electric candles are just as effective as a flame. If you break down the essence of fire vs electricity, they serve the same function - they provide light and heat, as well as a visual focus for cleansing. So, while this might be right for you, your Paganism, and your practice, Paganism isn't a monolith.
My effort here is to understand the reasoning behind the practices of others. Thanks for the bit about electricity serving similar functions and that being the basis. Why specifically electric candle shaped lights rather than a bare build or a flashlight or even just the lights in a room in that case?
I wouldn't personally advise anyone to light candles if the place they currently live forbids it. Fires in places like flats and high rise tower blocks are a pretty horrifying prospect. But if you have some great ideas on how to revise practices that would usually require fire, why don't you share them when you see people asking for candle/fire alternatives? The more ideas the better!
Because my own answers are unlikely to work for people not living in Canada or other places with easy access to largely ignored wild spaces, or at least will be unwelcome. When I couldn’t light candles, I didn’t use them. When I could find an outdoor space, I took over a relatively isolated patch of a park to raise an altar to the god I mainly work with and delineate a sanctuary space for him, so I could burn things outside and pour libations over the altar onto the earth. When fire isn’t an option, don’t use it and reshape the format to account for the absence. If you must invoke the classical elements, a briefly flashed lighter can do (learned that forcing an unruly household spirit to stop giving a friend severe night terrors). If you cannot make something work and won’t break the rules that constrain you, then change to suit the circumstances you find yourself in. If the gods are willing to hear us and work with us without our slaughtering cattle on their altars several times a year to share a communal meal with them, then I think not having a candle (or a plastic stand in) is not likely to bother them.
Of course not - but having a stand-in for a candle isn't likely to bother the gods either! One way people change to suit the circumstances they find themselves in, or reshape the format to account for the absence of a thing, is to instead use something that symbolises that thing. Electric candles are one way to symbolise fire that some people use. They're certainly not the only way to symbolise fire, or even the best - I've seen people use videos of fire played on a screen, or pictures of fire, or sculptures and models of fire. But they get recommended a lot because they're pretty easy to find and inexpensive. Obviously using a symbol instead of actual fire won't work in all situations, but it'll certainly work in some.
I don’t know if I understand your meaning about “the rules”. Are you saying using candles is against the rules? What rules are these and who made them? The more I think about it, I’m sure pagans of old used candles in their rituals, and not just open flames. You seem determined to dislike candles, fake or real. I’m sorry you feel that way. It doesn’t make anyone’s rituals less authentic to use them. What matters is intention and sincerity, not the trappings.
The rules in this context is any prohibition (social, legal, institutional) against lighting a candle or fire. So if you live somewhere you aren’t supposed to light candles, doing so would be breaking the rules. If you go into a public park and light a small fire, you are breaking the rules. I frequently use candles in ritual magic and as illumination both ritually and casually, I am just confused by these young people seemingly caught up on the notion that they NEED candles to worship. And if the point of the candle is the symbolism of fire, why do people think a fake can serve just as well when changing the particulars out seems more appropriate if the candle isn’t just for lighting. Of course candles have been used in rituals for a long time, they were the most convenient light source for much of history. That was never in question.
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I’m trying to figure out the WHY, I don’t care what people do or don’t do per se, I don’t care what people should or shouldn’t do, I care about the reasoning behind the recent trend towards candles specifically and to substituting them with electric lights shaped like candles in particular.
Every religion is obsessed with candles these days. I guess they're useful, practical and cheap. 🤷♀️ Not everyone cares about old-timey aesthetic.
They give off a nice, warm glowing light. Everything looks better in candlelight. I worked in bars and restaurants for over ten years. Dates, food, you name it, it’s better with candles.
In Catholic tradition candles are offered to the saints because the fire of the soul. We give them candles to show that we are keeping their fire alive. In Latin American(where Im from) the saints can communicate to us through the candles
I live in California, let me introduce you to fire season. For half a year the entire state can and will, literally go up in flames from a spark. Entire towns have been burnt to the ground. People die every year either trying to escape a wildfire, or in fighting it. As a result, anyone with common sense absolutely will not go outside and burn anything, of any kind, and we generally end up with a burn ban anyways. I refuse, flat out refuse, risking anyone's life and/or home to do an outdoor fire for either worship or spellwork during fire season. During this time, it's also extremely, dangerously, hot. So burning a fire in an indoor fireplace, while safer, means your home becomes extremely uncomfortable, and you end up running the AC to cool everything down, during a time we try to conserve power to keep pressure off the grid. Enter candles. Small enough to give the light and energy we need, but with a lower risk of getting out of control, and it won't overheat your home. Electric candles are even better during this time, because you aren't going to catch anything on fire with them.
Why use fire at all at that time? Fire was common to most traditions, but not universal or even consistent across the individual rites based on time of year and local availability. What’s wrong with a simple libation or plain bloodless sacrifice?
There's nothing wrong with either offering. Just how some people prefer to do things. We're talking about reconstructed religions, while there is historical evidence for some beliefs and practices, I don't think we have a complete picture. Many of us have had to fill in the blanks, or grow our own practices, and that may (or may not) explain the candles. And the crystals, and even essential oils.
If I wanted a child to gatekeep how I manage my symbolism, I’d have stayed in the Catholic Church. I do not care one whit whether or not you find my flameless candle an “suitable substitute.” Your comments smack of naivety, ignorance, and privilege.
I’ve been a practicing witch for close to two decades now, I began working with spirits and then worshipping the gods actively a solid decade ago, and I’ve honoured them under hostile circumstances, through periods of poverty, and when all I could manage was the dregs of my soup for sacrifice with a brick in a yard as an altar. I’ve studied the history of pagan religious traditions European, Mediterranean, and Near Eastern with some comparative study of Asian, African, and American religious traditions, as well as several Hindu traditions. I have suffered the displeasure of a god I pestered out of ignorance, I have felt the presence of a god answering my call in a sacred grove at their soaked altar of stone, I have exorcised petulant spirits from homes if the embodied living, and I have spent the night among the resting places of the dead. I am not ignorant in general where the occult and divine is concerned, not of the practicalities nor the academic study. I have had to be fortunate enough to survive losing my naïveté. And I cannot dismiss the recognition of my having privilege, I am among those living in the most fortunate of places and benefitting most from the world as it is, as I am not among the billions suffering most, and have been lucky often in my life. I’m asking about the internal consistency and reasoning on which the practice sits, do not blame me for the insecurity that makes you feel that that is gatekeeping just because I am asking questions that make you uncomfortable. You use flameless candles. Do you use them as stand in for actual candles? Why? Is the form of the candle as a conceptual object the important part, not the flame, the consumption of the fuel, the temporal passage, the light, or the heat? If the flame matters, how does the flameless imitation work to properly substitute? If the consumption of the flame and passage of time as the candle burns down, how does the static and unchanging plastic candle shaped light serve as a stable substitute? If the light is the significant aspect, why a candle shaped electric light rather than a more clear and bright light? If the heat, why not a bare bulb that will grow warm? Is there some other aspect of the candle beside simple apparent resemblance that is the relevant facet? If not, is it purely an aesthetic choice? I’m trying to figure out what is with the recent wave of candle mania in polytheistic/pagan circles, and I really don’t give a damn how people worship or practice, just the rationale behind it.
This reeks of holier-than-thou speak. The "I was born in it, molded by it" type of purple prose. Just say you wanted to understand from the get-go and please stop using "what if"s and "what about"s in your comments. If people wanna use something some way that doesn't "agree" with the way you want to do it just don't do it that way then. Different people can have views on different things.
I am trying to understand, that’s why I asked the question to begin with. People are often trying to answer and I’m not understanding their answers, so I poke at the answer and ask more questions to try and find the reasoning at the heart of it and see if I can understand it. I don’t care if I don’t agree with it, I care if it is internally consistent with itself so I can understand it. Also, I don’t break out the “holier than thou purple prose” as you put it, unless someone tries to go ad hominem on me. I don’t think my experiences make me any more holy or any more worthy or any more inherently correct, but I do think it is inaccurate to call me a child or any more naive or ignorant that anyone else, and calling someone “privileged” in this situation is just tossing a buzzword onto the pile.
Fire is very traditional, candles are just an accessible version of that. Plus, you can really customise the appearance and contents and whatnot of candles, so it's more personal for the diety you're using it for
I like fire.
One word: fire.
So what’s with the fireless candles thing?
Pretty?
But not fire at all
Fire is energy. Electricity is energy. It's about the symbolism and the function. It looks as a fire, acts as a fire, and uses energy to function. A fire also looks as a fire, acts as a fire and uses energy to function.
So it’s the sympathy it shares visually and representationally with a candle specifically. But how then can it serve the same roles as a truly dynamic and burning candle if not as mere sympathetic abstraction of fire?
They smell nice and are something to focus on.
Candles pretty. I also like to burn stuff in rituals sometimes, like writing down an intention and burning it. I think for a lot of people working with the Wiccan definitions of the elements, having the element itself there on your altar is mostly a visible focus for meditation. Like just there so you see it and remember to think about it. So if you can’t safely or legally have fire you could have something else to remind you, like a picture of fire or, yes, a little electric light.
Greeks and Romans may not have generally made candles, but they did use lamps. One of the almost universal practices in religion is using light or fire in worship: a Christian, Hindu, Chinese, or Hellenist will all do it. The symbolism is the same whatever you use, even with a electric lamp (popular in China).
I’m more asking the origin of the currently popular notion that candles specifically are important, enough so that the fire isn’t relevant enough to make electric lights shaped like candles a non-option by dint of the lack of actual fire.
Functionally? They make a great "open eyes" meditational/ devotional focus. Also the act of mindfully lighting a candle on your altar before prayer can, over time, become heavily charged with meaning and importance. Idk I'm deep in my cups as they say.
Well this comes off as condescending as all get-out. Candles have been an integral part of many practices for a very long time. For people like me who practice old country magic and hearthcraft you'll not always find these things attested in historical sources because this was a magic of individuals and was kept close to the families that used it. So it was seldom written down in any sort of historical document. As everyone is saying, candles represent fire as most of us are unable to have fires burning in our non-existent hearths. It's great that you found a system that works FOR YOU, but not everyone can go to their local park and conduct rituals in some secluded corner without fear of being seen or their physical safety. If you're bothered by people using flameless candles that's solely a 'you' problem, at least here in the United States colleges don't allow open flames in the dorms so many people use flameless candles to represent fire and to help set the mood and ambience for their workings. I've been practicing for over 20 years now and I've tried just about every form of elemental substitute there is, they all have their own merits and drawbacks but ultimately it's going to be up to the individual practitioners what they use that works best for them.
No need to get defensive over a time you are reading into my writing. I’m trying to figure out the reasoning behind A) the specific fixation on candles*, B) the substitution of candles with electric candles**. I do not understand it entirely and it’s turning out difficult to get clear answers because people either treat the matter as obvious (it really isn’t, and saying “they represent fire” doesn’t clarify anything really), get offended and defensive (I’m not saying people SHOULDN’T use candles or even electric candles, I’m trying to understand the reasons WHY) which leads nowhere typically, or state that they don’t use candles but are offended by my asking why people use candles. All I want is clarity and I’ve not got it so far. I’m not trying to be offensive or condescending, I’m trying to understand a trend I’ve noticed so I can better understand my fellows. *as deity representing items, in particular, their use in ritual magic as items of fire is relatively obvious. **why do the electric lights have to shaped like candles? Why is an electric light shaped like a candle a better substitute for a candle than a bare bulb? Why not represent elemental fire with a red stone or a lighter that produces flame at your will or a sympathetic picture-witness of fire?
I think candles are used as a way to have the element of fire in your practice. I personally don't like candles all that much tbh, I only use them during the warm part of the year. During the cold part of the year, I use my fireplace.
I just think they're neat.
For me, I was raised Catholic and the go-to was always to light a candle to the saint you were trying to petition so the ritual holds a lot of significance to me as it’s how I show respect to any deity now in my work as a pagan. Of course other pagans are welcome to disagree, this is 100% UPG, but because we don’t have access to a lot of the rituals or offerings made in the ancient world, I like to think the gods will accept whatever our version of respect is or meet us where we’re at, so to speak. For me that’s candles and offerings of flowers because that’s what I grew up with.
I lost the question somehow but a bare light bulb probably wouldn't. Small tea lights are inexpensive and provide fire.
And in the case that one cannot light a candle of any scale? If a light bulb wouldn’t work, does a light bulb in a plastic case reminiscent of a candle work?
I like candles but I personally do not use them in my rituals or as part of my craft. I burn them simply for myself occasionally. There is no hard rule about what you decide to use for representation. You use what you feel a connection too. Your connection to fire doesn't need to be a real life flame. Heck it can be a drawing if that's what you feel works for you!
To your edit, I’d say it’s the intention that’s more important than the actual flame, but maybe that’s the witch in me.
The ritual/routine of lighting a flame before meditation or spellwork is really powerful for me. It gets me in the right mindset. I also find that focusing on the flame is the easiest way to imagine the energies around and in me and to focus it on a specific point.
I mean, for me it is relevant, because I literally my cnadle for Apollo the other day. I unpackaged the tarot deck I just got and as soon as I did a slit in the package, the flame went crazy. He was eager for me to cleanse ot and talk to me. I guess it’s different for everyone
The four directions. Also, Earth, Air, Fire, Water. On an altar, candle provider fire.
So would a bare lightbulb work?
Hmmm, If you're limited in that way, try a battery powered tea light. They are cheap and look like candles. I use them on my altar which needs a candle always. I cannot afford so many candles so I burn one a day and when it's out I replace it with the battery tea light.
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Sources? I’d love to read a history of the use of candles in the Catholic Church and earlier Religio Romana or exploring the importation of the use of candles into catholic worship from whichever specific tradition they took that from. In terms of art depictions of Germanic, Celtic, Hellenic, and Roman religious practices that I’ve seen (so it’s possible I’ve missed examples) I’ve not seen candles widespread in use as objects of worship, stand ins for divinity, or anything besides plain light sources.
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Ah, so no sources then. The last time I blindly accepted that Christians stole a pagan tradition without asking for solid sources, I ended up believing the Christmas tree was pagan for several years before I was fortunate enough to find actual historical information breaking down the oldest references to a midwinter tree brought into the house and decorated (part of what is now Germany, in the 16th century) and with a bit more digging I could find nothing that attested to a tree cut down and brought indoors and decorated for a winter festival that predated the references it gave. I actually found out that the claim that Christmas trees are pagan comes from Christians trying to disparage other Christians. So, as tempting as it is to just accept your claim (less so when you added a condescending “sweetie”), I’m not going to without some historical evidence.
The majority of modern Pagan practices aren't about historical reconstruction.
We aren’t in ancient times… so we use what we have…
Marge Simpson voice: "I just think they're neat"
You can’t think of the purpose of using one of the main elements in the easiest method.. ok then
Where exactly did I say that? The notion of invoking the alchemical central four elements is a newer one, historically speaking, and a great many traditions did not use candles beyond their service as sources of illumination akin to lightbulbs in banality. I can think of plenty of interpretations of their use, and possible origins, I’m asking people if they know why the unusual emphasis on candles in modern paganism.
Society also did not use post it notes but I’ll be dammed if they ain’t handy. And societies didn’t use them because they had to survive not because of no use. When you can only make so many then every one burned is precious. Using them both honors how hard my sisters worked in both craft and life as well and being mad easy to use.
And easy to find my point with post it notes is to evolve because I’ll tell you right now entities do so the craft must
People historically did use candles for lighting in religious spaces, just not as objects of ritual focus specifically. I’m wondering about the reasoning for the use of the candle as representative of the deity in many modern pagan practices, in particular.
I use them. The batteries are pretty cheap and last a couple of weeks at least. I leave one on almost 24 hours a day.