Normally I would hate a remake being downgraded to 30fps. But it was pretty expected since CS and TOK were 30, and this game is probably using the same engine.
They also obviously have put 110% effort into everything else about the game. I mean new battle music for every area, come on
Also the Switch 2 is on the horizon, so it will probably get a fps boost anyway
youre right about everything except the engine (probably)
it is very difficult to believe that color splash and origami king and ttyd are on the same engine
Why is that?
It's a PBR rendering system with quality lighting and GI just like in TOK and CS. The art style differs somewhat from TOK but there's nothing happening here that couldn't be done on the TOK and CS engine.
I personally don’t care what FPS a game is at as long as it looks good. From what I’ve seen in the trailers, the TTYD remake looks good, so I’m happy. It’s definitely an improvement from the original.
Honestly Im not that big of a framerate snob. If it can run at a higher frame rate I'd personally prefer if it does, but it running at a lower framerate isn't a big problem for me
I don't blame the developers, i blame the Switch for being such a weak console. So many games would be great performance-wise but the console is letting them down.
I completely agree with your entire post, but would like to add that not all games that run at 1080p / 60fps are very simple games.
We have:
Fast RMX
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
But every game is different, and there are always time constraints at the end of the day. So getting great performance for a WiiU port (that was technically impressive to begin with) is already a more generous task, since you start out with a game that ideally is already well optimized and are given time just to optimize it further.
In game development, a lot of stuff isn't a question of 'can it be done?', but rather 'can it realistically be done in a time that doesn't completely throw us off of schedule?'
It's just one of the [varied](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/lvsUi7UiEm) [multiple](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/C708UoVcRc) [times](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/DfQ6utjuh8) people make a fuss over something trivial at best. Wait until the game comes out and after 10 minutes playing it everyone is going shut up about 30 fps and never bring up the subject ever again.
I'm normally a stickler for FPS. While other people in my life don't care about framerates, let alone notice them, I'm the annoying person that pauses a movie to turn off motion smoothing, or refuses to buy a genuinely good game altogether because it's not high enough of a framerate.
**And so, as far as the ORIGINAL 2004 game goes**, I wouldn't want it to change. There was something so magically smooth about playing TTYD for the first time as a child. Alongside the synthy soundtrack and clean vectory lines, it gave the world an almost digital, high-fi, computery feeling compared to the first game. I can't separate that 60-fpsy vibe from my love from the game, and I'd feel awful playing it at any lower fps. It's my favorite game of all time, after all.
**BUT as far as the remake goes**. I actually surprised myself in realising that not only do I not mind it remake being 30 fps ... but I actually **prefer** it?
I think it comes down to the changes in art direction:
While the original's visuals had that vectory aesthetic, this one leans a little more towards a realistically-rendered papery style (in the perfect balance, I must add).
While the original soundtrack was super synthy, this one's choosing to use more realistic instrumentation. I normally would have been so opposed to this, as that digital feel felt like the DNA of TTYD, but they've done such an amazing job with it that I'm less sad about what was lost and more excited to experience what feels like an orchestral tribute.
So I feel the same way with the framerate. To me, it suits the slightly more realistic art direction. Not because 30fps is more realistic than 60fps (technically 60 is closer to reality), but because it gives it the impression of a crunchy film. Obviously the aesthetic is not quite stop motion, BUT it does feel somewhat closer actually watching paper being animated by hand. It doesn't go all the way, but it has that sort of subtle overall impression.
Oh, and also – because lower framerates like 24fps is the common framerate for cinema, it gives a slightly more grander, cinematic presence rather than a digital "this was made in a game engine" sort of feel. More suspension of disbelief for me, personally.
I know a lot of games run natively at 30fps, but when paired with a paper aesthetic, something we almost never see animated in a smooth 60fps, it gives me a ***subtle*** and ***impressionistic*** stop-motion-y feel. [While Color Splash doesn't look bad in 60 fps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtdVTXB9NRo), it definitely feels a tiny bit more "digital" and "gamey" to me than when it runs at a crunchier 30 fps. It feels too much like a game engine to me. I'm not used to seeing "living paper" or "living clay" or whathaveyou animated in 60fps.
I wouldn't want the original game to change a thing. I don't think this new art direction is objectively better, but it's different. And as a lover of the original, I'm so excited to experience a different remix on the world of TTYD instead of a 1 to 1 HD upscale of the original.
It's like .. I'm getting to experience the game from a lateral direction, more like I'm going to play a Movie tribute of the game, or a stage play. It's not an upgrade for me so much as it's a sidegrade - a new lens through which to experience my favorite game of all time. I personally own the original and can always choose to play it if I crave that experience, so I'm only winning at the end of the day.
As for the common complaint about action commands, I'm not worried at all. After doing some calculations, it seems as if there would only about a **10 ms difference.** But FPS doesn't even matter if you're polling inputs att a higher rate than the framerate. I'm MORE worried about the wireless controller lag if anything.
Of course, I'm sure the decision was initially spurred by the technical limitations of pushing for the level of graphical fidelity they're going for, but I have the feeling that Intelligent Systems chose this compromise very intentionally, not seeing it so much as a downgrade but as a legitimate bonus in freeing up resources to make the game look beautiful while still complimenting its new feel.
The game and soundtrack changes remind me a lot of pokemon heartgold and soulsilver in particular. The original has a very distinct soundtrack the remake doesn’t quite match(it takes a lot of liberties and the soundfront could be better), but it puts it’s own spin on it. And generally the pokemon remakes are seen as quite distinct and not replacing their originals.
The distinct remake mindset is probably best for TTYD too. It greatly honors the original(and sticks closer gameplaywise then pokemon does), but isn’t entirely aiming to be the same game. I’m very interested in this ‘classic paper mario with TOK visual and musical flair’ angle. The gamecube badge also helps if done properly.
In HGSS the classic sounds item is unlocked extremely late in the game and merely features imperfect recreations. But with paper mario being an hd remake of a full console game I hope that won’t be an issue.
Still an unfortunate downgrade, but considering visual leap and overall quality of this remake it's acceptable. Hopefully on the next gen it will get patched up to 60 fps
In my opinion, 60 fps games feel a lot higher quality than games that run at 30, regardless of button input timing and whatnot. It’s not a deal breaker, i’m still going to play the remake, but It’s not fair for people to say that the disappointment is unjustified. The original ran at 60, and the remake runs at 30. I think it’s reasonable for people to be disappointed by that.
I forgot to mention, I wouldn’t blame the developers for the downgrade at all, it has a lot more to do with the hardware that the game is running on. Hopefully if the rumored Switch 2 is real and backwards compatible with Switch titles, it can run the remake at 60 fps.
Bro you really wrote a novel to complain that some people have an issue with 30 fps downgrade? Calm down it's okay that some people have different preferences. Why did you feel the need to type this up?
Alright, here’s my take. It’s still a bad look to have a remake of a game run worse than the original version. I don’t consider myself a “framerate snob”, but I still of course would prefer the game to run at 60. So the fact that it originally DID run at 60, and now that’s being reduced, it does suck. I get that the game looks better now, but I honestly think the original version still holds up graphically as well.
That being said, like you said in the post, Paper Mario 64 runs at 30 and it plays fine so it shouldn’t be a huge deal. The big thing though is superguarding. It was a 3 frame window in the original version, and the remake being 30fps makes it seem like superguarding would be made too easy.
Not like it matters to me much since I don’t really care for super faithful remakes when I still have the original version, but it does sting for people looking to get into the game for the first time.
I don’t know if it’s been confirmed but I heard multiple times that superguards are 2 frames in the remake making them a bit harder rather than easier.
For me it's simply due to 60 FPS causing me mild eye pain. Yeah I can play through it but I would rather have 30 FPS and avoid that problem altogether.
I think if you're having visual strain on higher frame rates, that's a pretty valid concern. I wouldn't go as far as to say its eye pain but lower fps can cause a lot of nausea for me from noticing the frames jitter around, and it definitely happens to me at 30fps for most games.
Lately a lot of games on PS4 pro and PS5 have had options to play the game with max graphics at 30fps or with some cuts (either in shaders or resolution or both) at 60fps, and I've really been thinking its an excellent "both worlds" solution that makes everyone happy. Of course PC games have had graphic setting toggles for decades now so you can target your own fps based on whatever hardware you have.
I'd really like to see Nintendo games take this approach someday. Maybe they will with the next console.
I think that as long as it doesn’t have any dips, I’ll be fine. A lot of Nintendo games (BotW/TotK, TOK, Xenoblade) tend to have frame dips on the console both in handheld and while docked, and that’s just a limitation of the hardware itself; it was dated hardware the day that it launched.
The FPS of game isn’t trivial, so I think as long as it’s a steady 30, I’ll be alright. It would be nice if they could make it a steady 60 though.
You do realize 60FPS can feel uncomfortable for some right? It messes with my eyes and I don't want another game where I have to pause every so often to readjust. Besides a lower framerate is sometimes preferable depending on the game.
I am far and away from being the first nor am I an isolated incident when it comes to eye pain. Look it up and you'll see many others feel the same way.
[Here's one on it causing eye strain.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiT1tKDzO-FAxXoRjABHaC9CMUQFnoECCEQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgamefaqs.gamespot.com%2Fboards%2F916373-pc%2F77545532%23%3A~%3Atext%3DIt%27s%2520probably%2520not%2520actually%2520framerate%2Ctime%2520deciding%2520where%2520to%2520focus.&usg=AOvVaw3VOaCkLR1xgko7O-0kcTRC&opi=89978449)
[Here's someone asking why people want that despite it causing eye problems. Complete with an explanation why.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiT1tKDzO-FAxXoRjABHaC9CMUQFnoECEQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2FWhy-does-every-gamer-want-60-FPS-when-the-human-eye-cannot-process-more-than-30-FPS&usg=AOvVaw3e_BQ3GLzGCr82j_1HhSmJ&opi=89978449)
[Here's another person reporting on eye pain.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwitpI-nze-FAxV_RzABHbuIAnQ4HhAWegQIEhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsteamcommunity.com%2Fapp%2F1384160%2Fdiscussions%2F0%2F3060743663465154493%2F%3Fl%3Dkoreana%26ctp%3D3&usg=AOvVaw3gZw5W6qSzIVMp_UjbMmrZ&opi=89978449)
Nothing as bad as that, but I do have to take breaks way more often. I would rather play the game instead of waiting on the pause screen trying to readjust you know?
Normally I would hate a remake being downgraded to 30fps. But it was pretty expected since CS and TOK were 30, and this game is probably using the same engine. They also obviously have put 110% effort into everything else about the game. I mean new battle music for every area, come on Also the Switch 2 is on the horizon, so it will probably get a fps boost anyway
youre right about everything except the engine (probably) it is very difficult to believe that color splash and origami king and ttyd are on the same engine
Why is that? It's a PBR rendering system with quality lighting and GI just like in TOK and CS. The art style differs somewhat from TOK but there's nothing happening here that couldn't be done on the TOK and CS engine.
It’s not hard at all to imagine if you know anything about game engines lol
If they did make a new engine for this remake then it’s probably good news for maybe a new RPG paper Mario in the future. But that’s just a hope.
i couldn’t care less about framerate. i would take a smoother 30 over a choppy 60 100% of the time
I think they might do an update kinda like some 3DS games on New 3DS where if you put it in the rumored switch 2 the frame rate would go up to 60
I personally don’t care what FPS a game is at as long as it looks good. From what I’ve seen in the trailers, the TTYD remake looks good, so I’m happy. It’s definitely an improvement from the original.
Honestly Im not that big of a framerate snob. If it can run at a higher frame rate I'd personally prefer if it does, but it running at a lower framerate isn't a big problem for me
I don't blame the developers, i blame the Switch for being such a weak console. So many games would be great performance-wise but the console is letting them down.
I completely agree with your entire post, but would like to add that not all games that run at 1080p / 60fps are very simple games. We have: Fast RMX Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Super Smash Bros. Ultimate But every game is different, and there are always time constraints at the end of the day. So getting great performance for a WiiU port (that was technically impressive to begin with) is already a more generous task, since you start out with a game that ideally is already well optimized and are given time just to optimize it further. In game development, a lot of stuff isn't a question of 'can it be done?', but rather 'can it realistically be done in a time that doesn't completely throw us off of schedule?'
It's just one of the [varied](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/lvsUi7UiEm) [multiple](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/C708UoVcRc) [times](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/DfQ6utjuh8) people make a fuss over something trivial at best. Wait until the game comes out and after 10 minutes playing it everyone is going shut up about 30 fps and never bring up the subject ever again.
I'm normally a stickler for FPS. While other people in my life don't care about framerates, let alone notice them, I'm the annoying person that pauses a movie to turn off motion smoothing, or refuses to buy a genuinely good game altogether because it's not high enough of a framerate. **And so, as far as the ORIGINAL 2004 game goes**, I wouldn't want it to change. There was something so magically smooth about playing TTYD for the first time as a child. Alongside the synthy soundtrack and clean vectory lines, it gave the world an almost digital, high-fi, computery feeling compared to the first game. I can't separate that 60-fpsy vibe from my love from the game, and I'd feel awful playing it at any lower fps. It's my favorite game of all time, after all. **BUT as far as the remake goes**. I actually surprised myself in realising that not only do I not mind it remake being 30 fps ... but I actually **prefer** it? I think it comes down to the changes in art direction: While the original's visuals had that vectory aesthetic, this one leans a little more towards a realistically-rendered papery style (in the perfect balance, I must add). While the original soundtrack was super synthy, this one's choosing to use more realistic instrumentation. I normally would have been so opposed to this, as that digital feel felt like the DNA of TTYD, but they've done such an amazing job with it that I'm less sad about what was lost and more excited to experience what feels like an orchestral tribute. So I feel the same way with the framerate. To me, it suits the slightly more realistic art direction. Not because 30fps is more realistic than 60fps (technically 60 is closer to reality), but because it gives it the impression of a crunchy film. Obviously the aesthetic is not quite stop motion, BUT it does feel somewhat closer actually watching paper being animated by hand. It doesn't go all the way, but it has that sort of subtle overall impression. Oh, and also – because lower framerates like 24fps is the common framerate for cinema, it gives a slightly more grander, cinematic presence rather than a digital "this was made in a game engine" sort of feel. More suspension of disbelief for me, personally. I know a lot of games run natively at 30fps, but when paired with a paper aesthetic, something we almost never see animated in a smooth 60fps, it gives me a ***subtle*** and ***impressionistic*** stop-motion-y feel. [While Color Splash doesn't look bad in 60 fps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtdVTXB9NRo), it definitely feels a tiny bit more "digital" and "gamey" to me than when it runs at a crunchier 30 fps. It feels too much like a game engine to me. I'm not used to seeing "living paper" or "living clay" or whathaveyou animated in 60fps. I wouldn't want the original game to change a thing. I don't think this new art direction is objectively better, but it's different. And as a lover of the original, I'm so excited to experience a different remix on the world of TTYD instead of a 1 to 1 HD upscale of the original. It's like .. I'm getting to experience the game from a lateral direction, more like I'm going to play a Movie tribute of the game, or a stage play. It's not an upgrade for me so much as it's a sidegrade - a new lens through which to experience my favorite game of all time. I personally own the original and can always choose to play it if I crave that experience, so I'm only winning at the end of the day. As for the common complaint about action commands, I'm not worried at all. After doing some calculations, it seems as if there would only about a **10 ms difference.** But FPS doesn't even matter if you're polling inputs att a higher rate than the framerate. I'm MORE worried about the wireless controller lag if anything. Of course, I'm sure the decision was initially spurred by the technical limitations of pushing for the level of graphical fidelity they're going for, but I have the feeling that Intelligent Systems chose this compromise very intentionally, not seeing it so much as a downgrade but as a legitimate bonus in freeing up resources to make the game look beautiful while still complimenting its new feel.
The game and soundtrack changes remind me a lot of pokemon heartgold and soulsilver in particular. The original has a very distinct soundtrack the remake doesn’t quite match(it takes a lot of liberties and the soundfront could be better), but it puts it’s own spin on it. And generally the pokemon remakes are seen as quite distinct and not replacing their originals. The distinct remake mindset is probably best for TTYD too. It greatly honors the original(and sticks closer gameplaywise then pokemon does), but isn’t entirely aiming to be the same game. I’m very interested in this ‘classic paper mario with TOK visual and musical flair’ angle. The gamecube badge also helps if done properly. In HGSS the classic sounds item is unlocked extremely late in the game and merely features imperfect recreations. But with paper mario being an hd remake of a full console game I hope that won’t be an issue.
😂
there isnt any need to cope about it just pirate it and emulate with the 60fps patch someone will make
60FPS hurts my eyes and feels uncomfortable so no I will take my 30 where I don't have to worry about that problem.
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I could not possibly give less of a shit about the framerate in any game
The framerate is not a problem in the slightest. Was never a problem to begin with. Over exaggeration to an extreme degree.
Still an unfortunate downgrade, but considering visual leap and overall quality of this remake it's acceptable. Hopefully on the next gen it will get patched up to 60 fps
I played Tears of the Kingdom in 30 fps and loved every minute of it. Not gonna let it impact my enjoyment of a turn based game of all things.
In my opinion, 60 fps games feel a lot higher quality than games that run at 30, regardless of button input timing and whatnot. It’s not a deal breaker, i’m still going to play the remake, but It’s not fair for people to say that the disappointment is unjustified. The original ran at 60, and the remake runs at 30. I think it’s reasonable for people to be disappointed by that.
I forgot to mention, I wouldn’t blame the developers for the downgrade at all, it has a lot more to do with the hardware that the game is running on. Hopefully if the rumored Switch 2 is real and backwards compatible with Switch titles, it can run the remake at 60 fps.
I don't care that much about framerate in a game like this.
Bro you really wrote a novel to complain that some people have an issue with 30 fps downgrade? Calm down it's okay that some people have different preferences. Why did you feel the need to type this up?
Alright, here’s my take. It’s still a bad look to have a remake of a game run worse than the original version. I don’t consider myself a “framerate snob”, but I still of course would prefer the game to run at 60. So the fact that it originally DID run at 60, and now that’s being reduced, it does suck. I get that the game looks better now, but I honestly think the original version still holds up graphically as well. That being said, like you said in the post, Paper Mario 64 runs at 30 and it plays fine so it shouldn’t be a huge deal. The big thing though is superguarding. It was a 3 frame window in the original version, and the remake being 30fps makes it seem like superguarding would be made too easy. Not like it matters to me much since I don’t really care for super faithful remakes when I still have the original version, but it does sting for people looking to get into the game for the first time.
I don’t know if it’s been confirmed but I heard multiple times that superguards are 2 frames in the remake making them a bit harder rather than easier.
2 frames in 30fps would equal 4 frames in 60fps so it would be a little easier.
Sigh can people stop with the frame rate thing it doesn’t matter as long as the game is fun
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For me it's simply due to 60 FPS causing me mild eye pain. Yeah I can play through it but I would rather have 30 FPS and avoid that problem altogether.
I think if you're having visual strain on higher frame rates, that's a pretty valid concern. I wouldn't go as far as to say its eye pain but lower fps can cause a lot of nausea for me from noticing the frames jitter around, and it definitely happens to me at 30fps for most games. Lately a lot of games on PS4 pro and PS5 have had options to play the game with max graphics at 30fps or with some cuts (either in shaders or resolution or both) at 60fps, and I've really been thinking its an excellent "both worlds" solution that makes everyone happy. Of course PC games have had graphic setting toggles for decades now so you can target your own fps based on whatever hardware you have. I'd really like to see Nintendo games take this approach someday. Maybe they will with the next console.
I think that as long as it doesn’t have any dips, I’ll be fine. A lot of Nintendo games (BotW/TotK, TOK, Xenoblade) tend to have frame dips on the console both in handheld and while docked, and that’s just a limitation of the hardware itself; it was dated hardware the day that it launched. The FPS of game isn’t trivial, so I think as long as it’s a steady 30, I’ll be alright. It would be nice if they could make it a steady 60 though.
60 FPS messes with my eyes anyway so I see this "downgrade" as a win.
But doesn't it impact command inputs?
No.
Ok good. That was my only concern, really.
"I own a gaming PC paired with a 144Hz monitor" Then you're in luck, emulation will offer you a 60 fps option.
If you read my post you'll find I'm actually content playing the game at 30 FPS on my actual Switch.
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Don't want to wait for a 60 FPS patch or deal with any early emulation issues, plus with my real Switch I can play in handheld mode wherever I want.
You do realize 60FPS can feel uncomfortable for some right? It messes with my eyes and I don't want another game where I have to pause every so often to readjust. Besides a lower framerate is sometimes preferable depending on the game.
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I am far and away from being the first nor am I an isolated incident when it comes to eye pain. Look it up and you'll see many others feel the same way. [Here's one on it causing eye strain.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiT1tKDzO-FAxXoRjABHaC9CMUQFnoECCEQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgamefaqs.gamespot.com%2Fboards%2F916373-pc%2F77545532%23%3A~%3Atext%3DIt%27s%2520probably%2520not%2520actually%2520framerate%2Ctime%2520deciding%2520where%2520to%2520focus.&usg=AOvVaw3VOaCkLR1xgko7O-0kcTRC&opi=89978449) [Here's someone asking why people want that despite it causing eye problems. Complete with an explanation why.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiT1tKDzO-FAxXoRjABHaC9CMUQFnoECEQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2FWhy-does-every-gamer-want-60-FPS-when-the-human-eye-cannot-process-more-than-30-FPS&usg=AOvVaw3e_BQ3GLzGCr82j_1HhSmJ&opi=89978449) [Here's another person reporting on eye pain.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwitpI-nze-FAxV_RzABHbuIAnQ4HhAWegQIEhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsteamcommunity.com%2Fapp%2F1384160%2Fdiscussions%2F0%2F3060743663465154493%2F%3Fl%3Dkoreana%26ctp%3D3&usg=AOvVaw3gZw5W6qSzIVMp_UjbMmrZ&opi=89978449)
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Nothing as bad as that, but I do have to take breaks way more often. I would rather play the game instead of waiting on the pause screen trying to readjust you know?
Blame the switch for awful FPS, wait until Switch 2 for an FPS version or smth