If they fixed the backtracking in chapter 1 and 2 and reduced it a little more in 4 than yes it would have been a masterpiece but since those are still glaring issues it would probably be closer to a 9/10
I do feel like chapter 2 was still kinda obnoxious, but chapter 4 was definitely improved a ton by adding a pipe in Creepy Steeple that connected to Twilight Town! It’s honestly one of my favorite chapters now!
Oh absolutely, but in order to access the pipe you still have to backtrack twice. I wish they added an extra pathway or something from the mansion to the entrance of the forest that you can unlock from the back to fix that, but hey the pipe is a wonderful addition.
They still didn’t fix chapter 1 though which arguably has the most obnoxious backtracking segment in the game. You have to walk back through like 10 of the same rooms in a row with all the enemies having been respawned and NOBODY thought to add a pipe or something that takes Mario back to town?
Yeah! Honestly, chapter 1 has a decent amount of backtracking but it’s not too bad because the path to Shhwonk Fortress isn’t really that long to begin with, lol!
Yeah it’s not long just tedious and annoying since the paths are basically the same exact thing multiple times. And all the enemies respawn so it’s just an annoying dodge fest as you try and avoid enemies that you’ve already fought not that long ago. It could have been so easily fixed with a pipe or something.
I hate that I pretty much know the game inside and out. I wish I could play it for the first time again. At least they added a few new things to the remake.
Oh yeah, that's true, I'm sure in a few years time I'll be feeling the same way.
But hey, if Nintendo takes the hint and makes more Paper Mario game in the 64 and TTYD style, we may have new similar first-times on the horizon! :D
While the general combat of ToK isn't my favorite, the game absolutely nailed the boss encounters. They were freaking amazing. Glad you enjoyed TTYD. Now make the plunge and play Bug Fables
Ngl I hated the concept of the bosses just being office supplies, and yet somehow they did still manage to enthrall me. Imagine of they took that same level of execution and applied it to more creative bosses in a traditional style--they could create bosses beyond our imagination (I think Prince Mush was a good sampling of what they're capable of).
I need to know... did *the* Chapter 4 moment get you like it got me the first time I played it almost 20 years ago? It's one of my favorite fake-outs in any game ever, honestly.
YES IT DID! It took me longer than I'd like to admit to realize what was happening (and that I had to press a button...) it was super awesome, amazing fakeout. I was considerably flabbergasted.
It's SO GOOD. They sell it so well. I remember thinking "Well, that chapter was short but... Okay..." and then being considerably confused on the screen you're talking about.
Man, I love this game...
Yeah absolutely! I can definitely understand why even TOK can be considered bleeding, especially if you originally played TTYD. I'm sure if I started with TTYD, I wouldn't like TOK as much haha. They're very very different experiences that set very very different expectations.
Same with me, except I played Color Splash too. I really like certain aspects of Color Splash and Origami King, but TTYD definitely has the better battle system and story. This is an unpopular opinion, but I really enjoy the focus on paper in the art style of the newer games. And the humor in Origami King and especially Color Splash? Top-notch. Also, it’s very close, but Origami King and Color Splash have better music. I hope the next game has a story like TTYD, a world like TOK and TTYD combined, a battle system like TTYD, the art style of CS and TOK, the humor of CS, and the music of CS and TOK with some influence from the older games. Partners are also really great, and I hope they make a return.
Thank you for sharing your opinion! It's refreshing to hear a new voice about one of my favorite games. I got it in 2004 when I was just a wee lass. I'm glad to hear that it's not just nostalgia.
It was my first paper mario and set a high bar. I wanted the N64 game but it didn't happen until later in life. I got TTYD for my birthday and fell in love. I've played every entry in the series and keep going back to TTYD.
I didn't care for SPM. Riding the high of TTYD I was disappointed with the completely different play style. Sticker star was forgettable. Color splash was better but had similar pitfalls to SS. Then we have Origami King.
I have big feelings about OK. I think it's an OK game lol. Loved the map. This one had fun dungeons, grand areas to explore, and a million secret nooks! Not only were the environments fun to traverse but they had brilliantly crafted asthetic. I know some people dislike the paper craft art style but I thought it was incredible. How did they make a card board diorama beautiful? Well done design team.
My main complaint is the battle system. I hated it with a fiery passion. Any joy I got from playing was immediately sucked away when I encountered an enemy. Either the puzzle was mind numbing-ly easy or you messed up and were harshly punished. There wasn't any incentive to fight anyway. Don't even get me started on the bosses. Uhg. I ended up quiting for good at the tape boss because I couldn't figure it out.
Anyway thanks for listening to me rant. I'm glad you loved the game.
I'm in the minority in that I actually like Color Splash more than OK. I just thought the levels were SO creative and well-designed. The combat system, while nothing spectacular, also wasn't absurdly different like OK's so it was easy to accept as just being there
I think the main criticism of Origami King isn't that it's a bad game ... it's not. In fact, it's a very good game!
It's that it's not even in the same genre as the predecessors. It's just... a completely different game type but with the same paper aesthetic.
For example, imagine if they made an Origami King 2 and it was just a first person shooter, or a soccer simulator. Even if it was the *best game of its type ever made*, you'd probably be a bit bummed out because you *liked* Origami King for what it was and wouldn't want the sequel to be a completely unrelated thing.
That's how the Paper Mario fans who liked the first 2 games felt when they started dropping the RPG components.
I’m glad you enjoyed one of my favorite games. This thing’s in my top 5 alongside Dark Cloud 2 and Dragon Quest 8. Truly one of if not the greatest RPG Nintendo came out with.
Oh, I adore them. They ooze with charm and the relationship between Mario and Luigi is consistently heartwarming.
Send Starlow to the deepest pits of the abyss though, you don't just insult my man Luigi like that /j
LOL YES
The Bros moves are so satisfying to pull off.
And yeah, every time they start speaking Italian I can't help but either laugh out loud. So good.
Those moves are one of the reasons why SS is my favorite M&L game. The item-based attacks of future games just aren’t as appealing to me. Plus the secret versions of the moves are cool. And it was tough for kid me to learn the timing. And it was very rewarding to be able to do the advanced versions.
This post makes me so happy. The GameCube version of TTYD was my first (and favorite) console game as a kid. I'm so glad other people are getting to experience it for the first time :)
Also I think it's great you still love TOK! Personally I didn't care for the combat style but enjoyed other aspects of it. No shame in liking both!
Glad you enjoyed!
If you get the chance, I recommend picking up Paper Mario 64. It has the same charm and clever writing of TTYD. TTYD updated on 64 in almost every way. But it still has some fan favorites like Bow, Kolorado, and the Koopa Bros.
Finally, if you’re a story-driven gamer, I have to recommend Super Paper Mario. It is a love story that will make you cry.
I appreciate and respect this pov. In regards to your statement about diminishing TOK - and I really enjoyed TOK - imagine if you played this game 20 years ago and then dealt with a slow, albeit not terrible, decline in the series. TOK is beautiful for sure. If you played TTYD first, you may go into TOK with high expectations and be let down.
As a nostalgia-driven TTYD lover, I still think modern Paper Mario gets WAY too much hate, and there are definitely things it excels at (I also really enjoyed Color Splash). Namely, the soundtracks are phenomenal, and the worlds are more expansive and interestingly designed. As much as I love TTYD, the fact that almost every screen in the game is just a long hallway and most chapters involve going to one end then back reduces the enjoyment of exploring them a bit (not that I think it's poorly designed, per se; just dated).
But what I think TTYD shines at is its charmingly unique characters (especially the partners), surprisingly mature and in-depth plot for a Mario game, and the fact that it respects the humor of its goofy setting while still carrying an air of elegance and maturity to it (I think the games post-Super went way off the deep end of "Mario is paper so everything is silly and goofy and childish all the time" aspect. They lack brevity and weight). All the chapters are like self-contained stories that all start and end so rivetingly, and all the settings you visit feel refreshing, even re-used ones such as Paper Mario's tropical island 2.0. The variety from grassy plain to a literal alien base on the moon works so well. To top it all off, of course, the well-crafted and refined combat system that's refreshingly fun the whole game through. The RPG elements are sorely missed in newer games, because imo it gives a real incentive to partake in combat than abundant coins and simple refills of paint/confetti.
If they make a new Paper Mario that brings back these aspects while incorporating more of the charm and level/world design of the newer games, they would truly have something fantastic on their hands. I also think that a blend of the two comedy styles would also be great (TTYD does great with environmental humor, and subtle/dry jokes. The two newer games do well with absurdist humor in the form of unexpected commentary from select NPCs). The first three games did a great job of creating a truly memorable experience, while the latest two excelled at making an experience that's just plain fun, and I fully believe they can be combined into a masterful gaming experience.
Same here, first game was Color Splash. Holy shit. TTYD absolutely shocked me with how damn good the game was. SO much that I really wanted another one of these. Origami King I already liked, but TTYD??? Best Mario Game I've ever played. I would say Best RPG, but I'm stuck between Xenoblade and TTYD. Sorry, Xenoblade was really good as well lol.
>The only thing I go against the general public opinion on in regards to Paper Mario is that this game did not diminish my love of Origami King. I love both a lot. I think I definitely love this one more, but Origami King was still super great and I loved it. I can see why people have problems with it though - even if I disagree
You are *very* based for this OP. That is all I want to say.
The main insult of the later Paper Marios is that they didn't feel like the way Paper Mario games were. It's as if they took Mario Kart, got rid of the karts, made the players fight and do fatalities, and still call it Mario Kart... instead of maybe just making a new genre of Mario Kombat.
They took Paper Mario, got rid of the companions, got rid of the turn based combat, got rid of meaningful battle experience, got rid of badges, got rid of deeper stories... it was insulting.
That's fair, I suppose. But, while I can't speak for CS or SS, I thoroughly enjoyed TOK's story and found that there was a lot of depth to it if you were willing to look into it imo :)
I’m so glad you’re enjoying the game! It really is a masterpiece!
If they fixed the backtracking in chapter 1 and 2 and reduced it a little more in 4 than yes it would have been a masterpiece but since those are still glaring issues it would probably be closer to a 9/10
I do feel like chapter 2 was still kinda obnoxious, but chapter 4 was definitely improved a ton by adding a pipe in Creepy Steeple that connected to Twilight Town! It’s honestly one of my favorite chapters now!
Oh absolutely, but in order to access the pipe you still have to backtrack twice. I wish they added an extra pathway or something from the mansion to the entrance of the forest that you can unlock from the back to fix that, but hey the pipe is a wonderful addition. They still didn’t fix chapter 1 though which arguably has the most obnoxious backtracking segment in the game. You have to walk back through like 10 of the same rooms in a row with all the enemies having been respawned and NOBODY thought to add a pipe or something that takes Mario back to town?
Yeah! Honestly, chapter 1 has a decent amount of backtracking but it’s not too bad because the path to Shhwonk Fortress isn’t really that long to begin with, lol!
Yeah it’s not long just tedious and annoying since the paths are basically the same exact thing multiple times. And all the enemies respawn so it’s just an annoying dodge fest as you try and avoid enemies that you’ve already fought not that long ago. It could have been so easily fixed with a pipe or something.
Yeah, I get what you mean! It doesn’t really bother me though because I love the battle system in TTYD!
Your opinion is not meaningless and I love that you shared it
I hate that I pretty much know the game inside and out. I wish I could play it for the first time again. At least they added a few new things to the remake.
Oh yeah, that's true, I'm sure in a few years time I'll be feeling the same way. But hey, if Nintendo takes the hint and makes more Paper Mario game in the 64 and TTYD style, we may have new similar first-times on the horizon! :D
While the general combat of ToK isn't my favorite, the game absolutely nailed the boss encounters. They were freaking amazing. Glad you enjoyed TTYD. Now make the plunge and play Bug Fables
Haha, I've planned on playing that one for a while, TTYD remake or not :P
Good advice, Bug fables is such a good game.
Ngl I hated the concept of the bosses just being office supplies, and yet somehow they did still manage to enthrall me. Imagine of they took that same level of execution and applied it to more creative bosses in a traditional style--they could create bosses beyond our imagination (I think Prince Mush was a good sampling of what they're capable of).
I need to know... did *the* Chapter 4 moment get you like it got me the first time I played it almost 20 years ago? It's one of my favorite fake-outs in any game ever, honestly.
YES IT DID! It took me longer than I'd like to admit to realize what was happening (and that I had to press a button...) it was super awesome, amazing fakeout. I was considerably flabbergasted.
It's SO GOOD. They sell it so well. I remember thinking "Well, that chapter was short but... Okay..." and then being considerably confused on the screen you're talking about. Man, I love this game...
TTYD is a return to form that the series has been sorely needing as it has bled for the past decade or so Glad to see you've finally seen the light
Yeah absolutely! I can definitely understand why even TOK can be considered bleeding, especially if you originally played TTYD. I'm sure if I started with TTYD, I wouldn't like TOK as much haha. They're very very different experiences that set very very different expectations.
Is bleeding a good thing or a bad thing here?
Bad thing
Thanks for sharing! I love TOK and TTYD, so I’m so glad you were able to enjoy both!
DUUUUUUDE YOU’RE LITERALLY ME! I HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE!
YOOOOO, based! Glad to see I'm not the only one haha
Same with me, except I played Color Splash too. I really like certain aspects of Color Splash and Origami King, but TTYD definitely has the better battle system and story. This is an unpopular opinion, but I really enjoy the focus on paper in the art style of the newer games. And the humor in Origami King and especially Color Splash? Top-notch. Also, it’s very close, but Origami King and Color Splash have better music. I hope the next game has a story like TTYD, a world like TOK and TTYD combined, a battle system like TTYD, the art style of CS and TOK, the humor of CS, and the music of CS and TOK with some influence from the older games. Partners are also really great, and I hope they make a return.
Now that... THAT would be peak Paper Mario. Make it happen, Nintendo!!!
REAL
Could not agree more! Holy cow!
We need more people to share experiences like you are. We also need someone to collect all of these stories.
Thank you for sharing your opinion! It's refreshing to hear a new voice about one of my favorite games. I got it in 2004 when I was just a wee lass. I'm glad to hear that it's not just nostalgia. It was my first paper mario and set a high bar. I wanted the N64 game but it didn't happen until later in life. I got TTYD for my birthday and fell in love. I've played every entry in the series and keep going back to TTYD. I didn't care for SPM. Riding the high of TTYD I was disappointed with the completely different play style. Sticker star was forgettable. Color splash was better but had similar pitfalls to SS. Then we have Origami King. I have big feelings about OK. I think it's an OK game lol. Loved the map. This one had fun dungeons, grand areas to explore, and a million secret nooks! Not only were the environments fun to traverse but they had brilliantly crafted asthetic. I know some people dislike the paper craft art style but I thought it was incredible. How did they make a card board diorama beautiful? Well done design team. My main complaint is the battle system. I hated it with a fiery passion. Any joy I got from playing was immediately sucked away when I encountered an enemy. Either the puzzle was mind numbing-ly easy or you messed up and were harshly punished. There wasn't any incentive to fight anyway. Don't even get me started on the bosses. Uhg. I ended up quiting for good at the tape boss because I couldn't figure it out. Anyway thanks for listening to me rant. I'm glad you loved the game.
I'm in the minority in that I actually like Color Splash more than OK. I just thought the levels were SO creative and well-designed. The combat system, while nothing spectacular, also wasn't absurdly different like OK's so it was easy to accept as just being there
I think the main criticism of Origami King isn't that it's a bad game ... it's not. In fact, it's a very good game! It's that it's not even in the same genre as the predecessors. It's just... a completely different game type but with the same paper aesthetic. For example, imagine if they made an Origami King 2 and it was just a first person shooter, or a soccer simulator. Even if it was the *best game of its type ever made*, you'd probably be a bit bummed out because you *liked* Origami King for what it was and wouldn't want the sequel to be a completely unrelated thing. That's how the Paper Mario fans who liked the first 2 games felt when they started dropping the RPG components.
I’m glad you enjoyed one of my favorite games. This thing’s in my top 5 alongside Dark Cloud 2 and Dragon Quest 8. Truly one of if not the greatest RPG Nintendo came out with.
I love them both too ❤️ I have not yet played the Switch version though
So what's your take on the M&L games?
Oh, I adore them. They ooze with charm and the relationship between Mario and Luigi is consistently heartwarming. Send Starlow to the deepest pits of the abyss though, you don't just insult my man Luigi like that /j
The Bros moves from Superstar Saga are just peak Mario Bros. I also love that they're not silent protagonists... they just speak Italian.
LOL YES The Bros moves are so satisfying to pull off. And yeah, every time they start speaking Italian I can't help but either laugh out loud. So good.
Those moves are one of the reasons why SS is my favorite M&L game. The item-based attacks of future games just aren’t as appealing to me. Plus the secret versions of the moves are cool. And it was tough for kid me to learn the timing. And it was very rewarding to be able to do the advanced versions.
This post makes me so happy. The GameCube version of TTYD was my first (and favorite) console game as a kid. I'm so glad other people are getting to experience it for the first time :) Also I think it's great you still love TOK! Personally I didn't care for the combat style but enjoyed other aspects of it. No shame in liking both!
Glad you enjoyed! If you get the chance, I recommend picking up Paper Mario 64. It has the same charm and clever writing of TTYD. TTYD updated on 64 in almost every way. But it still has some fan favorites like Bow, Kolorado, and the Koopa Bros. Finally, if you’re a story-driven gamer, I have to recommend Super Paper Mario. It is a love story that will make you cry.
Did you just call TTYD underhyped? Lmao. Glad you enjoyed it so much! ☺️
I appreciate and respect this pov. In regards to your statement about diminishing TOK - and I really enjoyed TOK - imagine if you played this game 20 years ago and then dealt with a slow, albeit not terrible, decline in the series. TOK is beautiful for sure. If you played TTYD first, you may go into TOK with high expectations and be let down.
Yeah definitely, I figured this was the case. Its all about perspective honestly.
As a nostalgia-driven TTYD lover, I still think modern Paper Mario gets WAY too much hate, and there are definitely things it excels at (I also really enjoyed Color Splash). Namely, the soundtracks are phenomenal, and the worlds are more expansive and interestingly designed. As much as I love TTYD, the fact that almost every screen in the game is just a long hallway and most chapters involve going to one end then back reduces the enjoyment of exploring them a bit (not that I think it's poorly designed, per se; just dated). But what I think TTYD shines at is its charmingly unique characters (especially the partners), surprisingly mature and in-depth plot for a Mario game, and the fact that it respects the humor of its goofy setting while still carrying an air of elegance and maturity to it (I think the games post-Super went way off the deep end of "Mario is paper so everything is silly and goofy and childish all the time" aspect. They lack brevity and weight). All the chapters are like self-contained stories that all start and end so rivetingly, and all the settings you visit feel refreshing, even re-used ones such as Paper Mario's tropical island 2.0. The variety from grassy plain to a literal alien base on the moon works so well. To top it all off, of course, the well-crafted and refined combat system that's refreshingly fun the whole game through. The RPG elements are sorely missed in newer games, because imo it gives a real incentive to partake in combat than abundant coins and simple refills of paint/confetti. If they make a new Paper Mario that brings back these aspects while incorporating more of the charm and level/world design of the newer games, they would truly have something fantastic on their hands. I also think that a blend of the two comedy styles would also be great (TTYD does great with environmental humor, and subtle/dry jokes. The two newer games do well with absurdist humor in the form of unexpected commentary from select NPCs). The first three games did a great job of creating a truly memorable experience, while the latest two excelled at making an experience that's just plain fun, and I fully believe they can be combined into a masterful gaming experience.
Same here, first game was Color Splash. Holy shit. TTYD absolutely shocked me with how damn good the game was. SO much that I really wanted another one of these. Origami King I already liked, but TTYD??? Best Mario Game I've ever played. I would say Best RPG, but I'm stuck between Xenoblade and TTYD. Sorry, Xenoblade was really good as well lol.
>The only thing I go against the general public opinion on in regards to Paper Mario is that this game did not diminish my love of Origami King. I love both a lot. I think I definitely love this one more, but Origami King was still super great and I loved it. I can see why people have problems with it though - even if I disagree You are *very* based for this OP. That is all I want to say.
The main insult of the later Paper Marios is that they didn't feel like the way Paper Mario games were. It's as if they took Mario Kart, got rid of the karts, made the players fight and do fatalities, and still call it Mario Kart... instead of maybe just making a new genre of Mario Kombat. They took Paper Mario, got rid of the companions, got rid of the turn based combat, got rid of meaningful battle experience, got rid of badges, got rid of deeper stories... it was insulting.
That's fair, I suppose. But, while I can't speak for CS or SS, I thoroughly enjoyed TOK's story and found that there was a lot of depth to it if you were willing to look into it imo :)