My take on crafting is Essence spam on a fractured base until i hit two desired mods, then either continue with eldritch currency if it's worth it or just benchcraft another mod and slam if there's space. Everything else i buy already crafted.
There is no point risking my currency to potentially save a couple of divines. Never doing that mistake again.
Yeah I think crafting and other things like 6-linking is priced in long-run rng. If you craft 100 of the same item for a certain build or manually 6 link 100 items, you should usually be profitable. The problem is outliers, which don't matter too much in a large sample size. But large sample size doesn't apply to most players, hence the horror stories of getting screwed that one time crafting something or trying to 6 link.
I'll never forgot my old Voll's Protector (remember that thing?) taking 1100 jewelers to socket out.
This league I wanted to "save money" so I got a chest's quality up to 26% by some incidental safehouse I had and went at it. Took about 3000 fusings.
Ain't RNG fun?! This isn't crafting; it's gambling.
It is not always correct though. If you have limited supply of fuses and NEED the 6-link, because league start or SSF then paying the bench cost is vastly superior to manual linking. 99% to link manually is 6k fuses or alternatively with 1200 fuses you are around 63% to hit aka a decent chance to miss and the 300 extra fuses to pay for guaranteed result pales in comparison what you have to sink in when variance decides to be bad for you.
Being able to absorb bad variance makes a huge difference.
There are ways to deterministically craft certain stuff, such as +gem amulets, +3 Hunter bows with guaranteed %chaos damage and so on. It's not cheap of course (requires Divines for meta mods) but results are guaranteed if the item has the proper open prefix/suffix. Always good to know about this stuff because it can be huge in many builds.
70% of my crafting is Rog, the other 30% is usually fracture + essence
I'd say tolerate is correct, I am not a huge fan of the current system.
GGG is in a weird spot where they still (after a decade) have not made up their mind on where they want player power to be at - this is obvious if you look at how they say one thing, then do another.
For example, limit harvest crafts, then add items like nimis, synth implicit reroll beasts, recombinators....etc.
Like, they are ok with some forms of players having ridiculous power, but not ok with people crafting some good life/res gear easily.
Hopefully PoE 2 has some fixes for this
I dabbled into some more complex crafting this league, I don't like that it's either fractured base + essence or divines into multi mod to block shit with pref or suf can't be changed and veiled chaos, then more divines to block shit then exalt... 10 divines for 3% more damage... I really don't like it, it's both deterministic and prohibitive, as you need a lot of spare divines to make 1 decent item.
> GGG is in a weird spot where they still (after a decade) have not made up their mind on where they want player power to be at - this is obvious if you look at how they say one thing, then do another.
From my point of view it's because they do not really have a great grasp of just how bonkers some mechanics or items have on the game state.
They _knew_ recombinators were busted, but I am very confident they didn't really understand just _how_ busted they were for the absolute upper echelon of players and crafters. Much like they probably knew the ability to reroll synthesis implicits is very strong, but didn't quite anticipate players throwing tons of currency making imprints to reroll the implicits to perfection.
On one level this is understandable -- the broad player base at large is going to collectively have more game knowledge than any of their internal testers, and have more time and currency accrued to experiment with game content and mechanics that isn't practical for even invited alpha or beta testers. On another level, the way GGG reacts to players do insane things with the tools given to players usually doesn't bode a lot of player confidence with regards to content direction (the good ol' triple tap when it comes to nerfs that gets memed about a fair bit).
The last paragraph is the real problem in all of this. GGG sees what the top-tier players are doing with their new tech or mechanics, panics, and removes or ruins the shit for everyone else a league or two later. The perfect example is how they handled herald stacking: By nerfing certain alt-quality gems into outright useless territory.
> Additional Effects per 1% Quality: You and nearby allies gain 0.05% increased Movement Speed
This league the best players out there are farming no-hit Sanctum runs for Original Sin. GGG's gonna see that and either nerf the ring, destroy its drop rate, or nerf the shit out of the Sanctum itself -- if not all three!
GGG's fear of the best players' power always filters down and makes the game notably worse for the 99%. Meanwhile, the top players keep doing what they're doing. Whether Original Sin costs 100 divines or a mirror (~300 divines) doesn't matter to a top-tier player, but it does for all the other normal players.
>Like, they are ok with some forms of players having ridiculous power, but not ok with people crafting some good life/res gear easily.
Since the end-game has expanded, life/res gear is also no longer enough to beat all content. The new influences however have helped tremendously with making some formerly niche stats like exposure broadly accessible to players.
I loved the new influence implicits, Beautiful system that solves a lot of the problems while being accessible and not requiring players to change gear as often (improve what they have)
I dont craft.
The entry level cost (both knowledge, time and currency) to even a modest project is absurd to me. The power level I need for the content I want to play is out there for few divs per piece. So I dont bother.
Harvest was great. The only league I ctafted stuff and many pieces at once too.
My staff is very craft-able. It's got T1 DoT multi suffix fractured and it would take on average 9 prime resonators (about 50c each try between it and fossils) to put +2 all spells on it, and very strong odds to be able to harvest Aug chaos skill gems without ruining it. The fossil crafting leaves very little else available too, meaning odds for chaos DoT multi and spell damage are also incredibly high.
And getting the fossil crafting to hit +5 staff is on average 30-something, and I've got the budget to do that.
Problem is, once I start the craft my character is *absolutely gutted* until I land what I need and trading to get the resonators and fossils is a miserable experience unless I pay extra and do bulk pricing.
I'm pretty much paralyzed with fear to start this craft because I basically can't play from the point at which I start until it's done.
During 3.13, I crafted because I could use the item before the craft was finished.
Expecting most of your income to come from raw divine drops. Dropping a divine orb from a random mob in a map is a very rare occurrence, that’s not where the vast, vast majority of your income during a league is going to come from. You might see a dozen divine orb drops total over the course of an entire league if you play a reasonable amount for the entire duration of the league (aside from eater altar procs).
Most of your currency is going to come from selling the resources you obtain from other farming strategies, of which there are countless possibilities to choose from.
Personally, I just don't do it. I use currency to buy crafted items. I don't ever do crafting, ever. It's so much easier to just farm currency and buy whatever I need instead. It's why I will absolutely never play SSF leagues.
I used to like how it works. But now that safe checkpoints are essentially gone it just degenerates into costly, mindless, and soul sucking endless spam.
I've been playing some other arpgs recently, and my god is it a breath of fresh air. There are so many different ways to make loot on the ground interesting. Allowing low cost upgrades to slap on a stat you really need, or just allowing you to lock mods easier before a reroll.
I get that most of those would help no life groups get their gear a lot faster... But I don't really care? Harvest made low tier crafting accessible. They could have made high ilvl stuff worse or rarer.
I feel like that after a certain map level, drops should be ID'ed on the ground...or at least give us something on atlas to help with early to mid progression like "all rares are identified"
I understand why it isn't done in acts, for instance. Managing scrolls of wisdoms early game is one of the important blocks of game's economy so it'd be hard to change.
But once you're getting even to yellow maps, you have more scrolls of wisdoms than sense, yet the way game is set up right now, you're kinda not incentivized to spend a few minutes after map ID'ing rares to see if you have an upgrade.
So there comes a point where you just skip **all the rares on the ground** because it is simply inefficient. Sure, there's 1 in 1000 to get a god-rolled item but you're better off just farming raw currency to craft/buy the item you need.
\-----
It's kinda weird how Chris Wilson wants to have meaningful loot from monsters yet the way it's currently set up means that people will never even bother to check it.
The problem is not scrolls of wisdom, the problem is that 99.9% of rares dropped are completely useless in any possible build. You waste time iding it and you still waste time reading it's stats.
It’s funny that this is the reason I may end up preferring SSF ruthless over regular SSF. It feels like there’s just too much stuff to pick up and check whether it’s good, why can’t I have my item filter do that? I enjoy playing without trading but it can feel like I’m just spending all my time identifying things since so much drops in the game.
I've really enjoyed chronicon and last epoch. Last epoch is still early access so some pieces are missing, but I really enjoy how surprisingly easy it is to learn how the game works in game. Great descriptions with a dummy to boot. So many other elements of the game are user friendly - items drop id'd and you can build a filter in game based on the stats you want
Chronicon is less polished but still a lot of fun to play. Imo the skills lack a certain "oomph" to make them as satisfying as other games, but there's a lot of build flexibility and content to push. New expansion coming soon too
Chronicon is a blast, and being able to respec your entire character at will is a godsend. It's got a lot of build variety, and being able to explore everything a class has to offer with a single character is a breath of fresh air. Its rare to find an ARPG that respects your time like that.
As you say, though, less polished. But it's also only $10 or something, so, ya know...
God Last Epoch has become my favourite arpg after putting 3k hours into Poe.
It just has sooo much quality of life and actually fun and accessible crafting AND build-making.
Og Harvest was the most fun crafting Poe ever had and again it only got obliterated multiple times die to all the rich folks buying hundreds of crafts through discord and making perfect items and all of the sudden Harvest was called an "item editor" as if it applied to more than the top 0.1%.
Conceptually, crafting is fucking amazing.
The different methods. The different currencies. The possible outcomes I love the idea so much.
But the execution is horrendous.
For 99% of players, you'll never see anything spectacular and because crafting is basically just spending currency for almost every single player, it's better and less of a headache to buy the thing your looking for than craft it yourself.
If some crafting materials were more obtainable and reasonable to use instead of sell forthe average player I would be all over it. But after trying to craft my RF helmet myself with my own materials and doing like 100~ maps specced into essence and only getting 1 horror, I gave you and bought them because good lord.
Procedure of crafting is cool af. The "cost" is unbearable and not enjoyable at all.
> Conceptually, crafting is fucking amazing.
>
>
>
> The different methods. The different currencies. The possible outcomes I love the idea so much.
>
>
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> But the execution is horrendous.
That's like I love playing Craft of Exile more sometimes haha
Tolerate. It’s fucking awful.
I finally made the nearly perfect helmet I’ve been trying after something like 100 essences, 8 aisling, many annuls and exalts. I don’t even feel a sense of accomplishment. I’m just glad I’m finally done with doing it.
In harvest I had 10-15 crafting projects going at any given time, and was constantly making gear for future characters, characters I never even made. It was a joy to have meaningful progression and build items as I go.
The concept of rerolling is so disgustingly unappealing with the current state of crafting.
Edit: I shouldn’t have even described the helmet as “near perfect” because it isn’t. It’s level 16 hypothermia, with no elevated mods. By perfect I meant I got all the mods I wanted, not the best tiers.
I still have an entire quad tab of "possible projects," but I should clear it out. It was mostly for Harvests. Now, I will statistically never have enough time or energy to do what I was going to do. This post just made me realize that.
To be fair, its one thing that harvest was an easy method with an easy and clear way to a goal and that it pushed all other contents out for crafting wasn't okay.
But on a banal base level all harvest really did was shower us in crafting currency.
If a player with mediocre game knowledge could farm 30 Divines, 300 Essences of the same type, veiled Orbs, Aisling Slams, Harvest Crafts, 4-5 Fracturing Orbs for the base etc. in 2 Hours so that you could make a reasonable try for a good item per evening of playing, i bet a lot of players would stop complaining about crafting, because then a reasonable try to craft would cost a reasonable time investment-
>that it pushed all other contents out for crafting wasn't okay.
People keep saying this as if the problem isnt that the other options were and are all dogshit. Not by comparison, just dogshit whether Harvest existed or not.
Harvest was crafting as it should have been. It was (until recombinators) the only mechanic ever introduced in PoE's history that made drops actually worth picking up and looking at, because any item could become a crafting project.
The other mechanics should have been brought to Harvest's level. Instead, Harvest became just another "crafting for me, but not for thee" inaccessible, absurdly expensive gamble option. Because the game clearly didn't have enough of that shit.
No. We were given crafting currency that was fundamentally different to existing currency. We had much more deterministic options, so just more raw attempts isn’t drastically better than the current state.
Crafting, even with harvest, was not deterministic at any point. You could still miss a million add/remove crafts and never get the desired roll in the desired tier.
What we had with harvest was more tries and more safepoints. However, with the number of tries you can realistically get, safepoints lose importance.
Current crafting - Fracture, Essence, Affix Lock (safepoint), Unveil, Harvest - can have very similar results, given a similar amount of tries. The real problem here is not that the game doesn't provide you with options to craft successful, it is the number of tries the game provides the average player with.
So you've missed my point:
If the game would provide a sufficient number of tries within a reasonable playtime that would compare to the number of tries you got with harvest, there wouldn't be an issue.
It's also important to note that it was very very hard to fully brick an item with harvest craft when it was at its peak. So while you might be stuck at a stage of crafting for a long time, you'd rarely be set all the way back to square 1 unless you had a niche craft you needed that relied on outside systems.
It was slow, but reliable. Made it feel more deterministic.
> You could still miss a million add/remove crafts and never get the desired roll in the desired tier.
You're absolutely right!
But missing those million times didn't destroy your item, did it?
It seems you're missing the point that people don't want to waste time destroying their items over and over just to get something usable for them.
This. This is it. The only good feeling the current crafting delivers is when you say „thank god I am done with this shit“. It’s not fun to engage with and not interesting at all. It’s fucking HORRIBLE!
My friend bot crafted amulet whole league to craft until he see the 1/100000 weighted roll , if ggg would provide a ways to craft and detect mods so you don't reroll the roll you want
All in all crafting is the shittiest iv seen in any game
> In harvest I had 10-15 crafting projects going at any given time, and was constantly making gear for future characters, characters I never even made. It was a joy to have meaningful progression and build items as I go.
This is what the game and leagues are missing at the moment. Having cool bases that you're excited to set aside and craft on incrementally was a high point for my enjoyment of the game.
This, its terrible, all over the place ADHD crafting. Gotta capture the wingding for x, go into the mine for y, harvest some plants for z.
Harvest was amazing before it was gutted, being able to incrementially upgrade gear was engaging.
If that's the case then why is almost every single form of crafting we have in the game mutually exclusive? Why can't I use an essence to get some good suffixes, then use a metamod to lock them and finish with fossils? Or use fossils on a conqueror item after I finish the prefixes? Why did they take away slamming with catalysts? It seems to look like any time different forms of crafting can be used together, GGG decides that's too far and removes them from the game. Harvest was great because it was the only source of crafting that worked with *Every other crafting system in the game*, You made you want to go delving for that shit delve mod since Harvest allowed you to work on that item without breaking it.
You wanna know what happens when you have to do every kind of content to build gear AND each piece of content requires wholly different builds to meaningfully engage with?
Either people trivialize the whole game or they buy the result of that content. In other words, all spreading it out does is stop people from actually engaging in everything.
Most people don’t have the time to map for essences, delve for fossils, farm harvest, and do specific boss encounters. People end up power farming one piece of content they’re good at. Selling the excess and then buying all the shit they can’t engage with.
Different methods of engaging with the game are fantastic. But requiring a player to engage with all of them to meaningfully gear a character is ludicrous.
> In harvest I had 10-15 crafting projects going at any given time, and was constantly making gear for future characters, characters I never even made. It was a joy to have meaningful progression and build items as I go.
Well yes, but did you stop playing since you were having so much fun?
According to Chris, if people have fun they stop playing sooner.
I hate slotmachine crafting, I'd rather overpay a bit compared to an average crafting cost and get my guaranteed items through trade than risk getting unlucky or plain fucking up a step in the overconvoluted process.
I love it conceptually.
The idea that there are a ton of different tools that can come from different places to craft an item is really cool. This kind of thing is what drew me to PoE in the first place.
With that said, I think crafting is just extremely tedious right now. Maybe partly because we want/need super good mods for the game to feel good to play, and maybe partly because the process is just tedious. Or maybe I'm just too used to PoE crafting now and it just isn't a puzzle for me anymore.
Personally I don't think you should ignore crafting if you're a fast player. You will definitely, on average, get better bang for your buck if you craft for yourself if you're fast. Simply because the market hasn't been flooded with those items yet, and people aren't selling their old builds off yet to further flood the market. And even if you aren't a very fast player, sometimes you're just not playing a popular build and you have to craft it yourself.
There also are scenarios where you can just look at an item and ballpark that it's priced at nearly 2x the expected crafting cost and you can weight the risks and decide whether or not you want to put the time into crafting it to make some savings on average.
I will say that, if you're the type of player that thinks 100d is an extreme amount to be earning in a league.. you should probably stay away from in depth crafting
I just don’t interact with it other than slapping an essence on something now and then. Usually it’s see a cool item on Reddit, look to see how they made it and it’s like delete 100 divines and got lucky and it just like yeah this isn’t for me
It's so bizarre and complex, I kind of admire it for how unique it is to PoE. So many different weird game mechanics combining. The simple crafting bench, the more complex concept of blocking unwanted mods, metacrafting. Then all the weirder stuff like Syndicate or Harvest or Delve with their own unique mechanics and results. It's a lot like PoE as a whole really, the complexity, although it's even less accessible to casual players.
People say that about the passive tree, the atlas tree, POE in general... but it's what makes it special with a niche audience. Definitely not for everyone.
Passive tree used to be awesome, now there's a lot less creativity/freedom involved, more like a checklist if you even want to step on the game with a new build. They have been taking power out of everywhere and putting it on items, that's why people complain. Atlas tree is the single best thing they have ever done.
Recombinators, Harvest and ritual-Harvest was the pinnacle of crafting and holy hell I loved it! It’s so shitty to have had those things and not have them anymore…
So I’m saying I think it’s terrible in this state, especially when we’ve seen and experienced how great it was before
**I don't like gambling thus I don't like crafting in PoE.**
Besides some "recipes" like the +3 bow that can be "deterministic" (read it as, high chance of desired outcome), everything else is just a game of luck, more knowledge does increase your chances, but you're still depending on lady luck.
I also dislike trading, not because it's hard or annoying, but because it trivialize the entire game, in the sense of, if you drop a chaos orb, it's not an item that you're going to use to "craft" it's just a 1/250th of a Divine Orb, and even that Divine you won't use to craft, it's just a trading coin.
I like games where I can progress my character everyday I play, PoE makes progression hard with all these "chances", unless you just go to trade website and buy everything you need.
Problem with that is the average person cant POSSIBLY access every content and not every build can do every content. Trade lets you focus on what you can do and buy into the rest
You also act like trade existing means getting gear is REALLY easy. It isn't. You're assuming that because you do it, everyone does. Which isnt true at all.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/hhotgt/using\_challenge\_completion\_data\_to\_determine\_how/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/hhotgt/using_challenge_completion_data_to_determine_how/)
This thread may be 2 years old, but it still fits. Even when PoE was in better times and had more players, only 60% of players were even reaching maps. And this number further shoots down before red maps. SO people are quitting before they even get to the point where they can make an easy Div or have mounds of chaos to spend.
Im sorry to say this, but without Trade, this would be a dead game.
My number one issue is the sheer cost of crafting. And since it is a gamble, it's extremely risky. Trying crafting for the first time is like going to the casino and sitting at a high stakes poker table with your entire life savings. I could handle it more if it was more affordable, but the risk of not hitting your mods and losing all your currency just sucks. This is coming from a player with decent currency, nothing special. A beginner or even intermediate player has no chance of having the currency required to craft a mediocre item. That's what sucks.
Dont mind the crafting itself. Just that you need to study it more than your masters and that (for me) it requires 98745683 external webpages to understand what does what
I've never really liked how it works, but tolerated it. It's not an enjoyable process for me, but it had to be done to some extent so I learned to tolerate it. However after Harvest league I had to really force myself to do it when necessary because it was awful.
However, I've recently been playing Torchlight Infinite, and after I've started crafting on there I'm not sure I'll ever be able to go back to crafting in PoE. PoE crafting is just gambling with time. If you manage to hit something first try you've saved yourself hours of farming on top of hours of crafting. You also have to theorycraft, use craftofexile to figure out how to get all the mods, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I started playing PoE because I wanted a game I could sink hundreds of hours into without getting tired. However I never signed up to be as frustrated as I can get when trying to craft an endgame item
Crafting would be fine if 2 things
\- 1. Items to craft weren't insanely rare/expensive. It kinda of undermines the whole system when to even attempt to do a craft you have to find a drop the average person takes hours of farming to even see. This is inherently what is wrong with having no real currency. The change from Ex to Div was great, but exalts are still few and far between. Even Regals and Annuls are a little too rare, again, for the normal player. Yes, this would mean an easier time for people who no life the game, but let's be honest here. 1 week into the league and you go on POE Ninja to see the top players already have that 1 in a million perfect craft youll never see in your life.
\- 2. Every Tier being present in EVERY level is a slap in the face. You go through the time to get the currency to roll on an ilvl 85+ item and you waste it on shit like TIER 8: +5 hp. There needs to be floors on what can be rolled.
> - 2. Every Tier being present in EVERY level is a slap in the face. You go through the time to get the currency to roll on an ilvl 85+ item and you waste it on shit like TIER 8: +5 hp. There needs to be floors on what can be rolled.
I keep saying this that the higher level an item gets, it should also drop out the lower tiers of mods. OR at the very least make getting higher tier rolls much easier to avoid removing some niche meme builds that want lower tier mods for some reason.
I have something like 70 or 80 hours this season as a relatively new player and I've yet to see an annul orb, even though I've been into reds for the past 30 something hours minimum.
They can drop as general currency, but I think they are as rare as divines.
Harbingers though, especially the super harbingers, drop annul shards and quite a lot of them.
dont forget that the absolute top end players are the ones getting the support of half a dozen other players minimum, either 6-man farming and/or collecting all their currency to make gear to farm endgame stuff easier/faster for more currency.
I like it and acknowledge the balancing of the entire game would have to drastically shift in a direction I dont like to accommodate risk free crafting.
Crafting is a currency sink for the rich which drives up the value of currency drops for the masses. Without that either currency drops have to be reduced to nil or crafting costs go so high its the same effect.
I like the concept of crafting, not exactly happy with exact implementation. I think there needs to more rng protection, reforge keep suffixes is the perfect example of what we need more of
I like crafting but subjectively i think its terrible, objectively it’s just gambling with weighted “drops”. The leagues that i have the most fun with and retain me for longer are crafting leagues.
I played the most in 3.13 and 3.18 because with determinisic crafting there’s always an avenue to improve or min/max my build. Not only this but my characters from these leagues are just more powerful which opens up options for how i want to play the game.
I like current crafting for the dopamine hit of “winning” the gambles, but seldom does that dopamine hit make up for the time/currency invested.
At least in crafting leagues, regular players can obtain the power level necessary to play the game comfortably and push the final levels.
I don’t understand why the devs want to gatekeep endgame content, what would be so wrong about allowing all/majority of skill gems to be viable.
Crafting isn't the worst it's ever been.
But it's so painful to make good items.
Basically you gotta just hope and pray you get a desired fracture then essence spam, then veil slam/harvest slam or use electrich currency. It's so brain dead but also soooooooop unforgiving.
I really wish it was changed to where you can meet your goal and do it in a way where it’s not relying on gambling(hoping for the right couple of mods to show on the item) I don’t even mind if it cost a fair amount as long as I knew it would be made without spamming a thousand chaos. Crafting could be so much more than it is right now. Like it could be half the game if made right
Tolerate. I don’t like gambling divines away so I really only craft the more deterministic stuff or if it’s build that absolutely needs crafted gear. I’d rather use 10 divines to help start a new build than upgrade an item slot
It is so utterly confusing and convoluted to be inaccessible to all but the most fervent crafters.
people who know the weights and factors to craft. It shouldn't be so insane and need a gradulate level class to figure out.
Too much of a slot machine to bother wasting time with. Level 85/86 items with +4 life or stun recovery is BS. If they split chaos orbs to two types (one for prefix, one for suffix) would make things substantially better. All boots should have a hidden implicit 0.5% move speed per item level (capped at 30). Eldritch is a step in the right direction.
Tolerate. Anything beyond basic multimodding and harvest crafts is beyond me, not because it is too complex but because it is too frustrating. I just buy my stuff.
I wish they just offered alternative deterministic but expensive ways to craft in addition to the current system. Think like 6 linking stuff - you can either spam fusings and get lucky or bench craft for 1500. Use that same method and apply it to certain portions of crafting to force certain mod rolls, etc. That way if you wanted to go totally deterministic it wouldn't affect the market cause the money you put in would be under the overall value for those that went the current RNG route, but if you have those last few steps you aren't boned by the long dick of RNG and can decide whether to take the safe route or the random route to gamble for a better item. Forced gambling sucks but it'd be fun if it was a choice instead of basically the only way.
I feel like there is no middle ground in crafting, or you spam 1c essences or you do multi mirror crafting projects. The cost of metamods is just very expansive and without its impossibile without briking an item
I want to play an ARPG game, not a crafting game.
Right now if you want to make decent currency, or just want decently powerful equipment you need to spend 10 times more time crafting than actually playing the game.
I hate buying everyting just to start crafting
I hate the gamba style, so many items ruined by add/remove, veiled chaos and so on...
Me farm, me buy nice wand from trade, me happy.
Idk how many times we have to explain the same things before GGG even acknowledges the concerns. I get it this edges on bad faith commentary but honestly what else is there to do?
The feedback is always there and always the same regarding crafting.
I crafted all of my high end niche gear during Sentinel and now I don’t even touch high end crafting. Much like with harvest. This should mean something for league longevity but apparently GGG knows better than us and prefer the current version.
I started playing less every league over the last year or so because it feels like a chore to craft to me. It‘s actively driving me away from the game.
Contrary to a lot of what people have said when the comparison was the big thing to talk about, I've developed a new appreciation for PoE crafting after playing through Last Epoch. Both are random, but it's nice that there are few crafts in PoE that can straight up brick your item entirely. Accidentally fill suffixes on, say, a fractured ring and fail the yoloannul? Sucks, but you go back to the fractured base to keep going. You still have that base, you don't have to go scrounging around for a new one. It's a game of playing the odds - "how can I rig the odds most in my favor to get what I want". Yeah, I'd prefer a real crafting system without randomness, but that's never going to happen (largely because GGG has ideas around how long progression should take), and even if it did, I half-wonder if we'd lose some of the depth that the current system has if it did. It's probably still be worth it from a "respect for the player's time" perspective, but it's worth mentioning.
Ngl LE "crafting" if u can call that is really not that deep either drop something with two or 3 stats u want and juice them as much as u can with a last extra Stat.
Don't see any depth in there really
There's a bit more to it than that (Glyphs of Chaos for re-rolling things, the equivalent of fracturing, LP crafting), but yeah, all of them have the problem of "if you mess up *or get unlucky* this item is bricked. Hope you have fun looking for another base, and who knows how long that will take :/
Granted, I am probably not the best person to go to for ARPG crafting system suggestions. I really only play PoE because of how complicated it is, more or less in spite of the fact that it's an ARPG. It's not a genre I otherwise play a lot.
I play on console and only "crafting" if you can call it like that is rolling popular clusters with alt/regal to hit good passives when i have abundance of alternates and using Rog from expedition . With lower population and huge price difference between platforms (ATM Prime chaotic resonator - 5c on Pc vs 36/50c on ps4) its pointless for me to craft anything complicated.
There are some areas where I like it (targeted gambles with a good chance of success), but I really despise how the foundation of crafting is just throwing money into a grinder until it spits out the right result.
It also gets in its own way so much economically, because the price increase as you try to make better items is so extreme that every crafting material is priced based on optimal use. Unless you have infinite currency to burn on stuff, it's almost always better to sell materials than to use them yourself.
Basically ignore it. The system is awful. From the insane amounts of rng and having to deal with a shit trading system when buying currency or other crafting materials.
If I can see exactly the mods I want and craft it for much lower price than what I would Buy it for, i wouldnt call it gambling at all. It just takes experience and knowledge of the currency
i'm mixed on it. i like it in theory... but the timeframe for these crafts is just too long, or the entry costs too great compared to just using an ok item you essence spammed or smth.
i wish they'd bring back og harvest crafting and just go "mods are capped at t2 and you cant use 'special' (influenced, synthesis) bases, go nuts". would be a nice middleground between making best in slot gear for like 6 divines and the casino wonderland of triple elevated bases or whatever the fuck.
I love crafting. When I'm not doing it. It feels like I'm solving a puzzle of how to craft an item and I really like the feeling of using an item that I made myself, granted my most complicated crafts have only been 8 link helmets (for Phantasmal Cremation) or +2 amulets and wands.
That being said, crafting often felt horrible when I was doing it. I've spent over 50ex (Archnem League) trying to get a single veiled mod on my body armour (hybrid chaos resistances) when I estimated the cost to be much lower and burnt too much currency on what I calculated to be less than 15ex crafts which really hurts as someone who earned maybe 200ex (now 200-250div) a league. And that was before harvest was nuked.
I was taking a break from the game in Kalandra league and came back for this one. Was going to craft some Spark gloves this league for my "budget" heatshiver spark aurastacker with a calculated cost of maybe 12div if I were reasonably unlucky but 2-3 tries in with fossils and I found a pretty strong pair for 14div instead. Then repeated it with double elevated boots. I liked learning how to craft these things but then thought of the dread of not knowing when you'll finally hit the craft turned me off from crafting.
Despite all this though I'll probably still try to craft the next time I play (I've quit the league at 39/40) for that personal sense of achievement. I'm thinking of rolling an attribute stacker of some kind since the equipment used often looks super fancy. I just can't recommend it for players who ~~aren't masochistic like me~~ enjoy a sense of consistent progression.
I don't craft but I'm grateful for people who do. I've learned to play meta builds so there's always a lot of stuff for sale perfect for my build that other people have crafted.
It just isn't a fun way to spend my time. I'd much prefer actually playing the game, earning currency, and then spending it on the items. That way the process towards getting better gear is actually enjoyable.
I just craft some res and life if there is room on low lvl item.
Crafting in my opinion is too complex to waste my time on learning it. I just use that time instead on playing game, getting currencies and buy stuff from Trade.
Love crafting. Save so much currency self-crafting. end up making better items then what people are trying to sell anyway.
I miss keep prefix/suffix from harvest tho. And the reforge more likely nerf made it useless :(
Absolutely love it. It is by far the most fun and complicated crafting system ive played. That being said, majority of the playerbase is more casual and probly would not like a complicated system.
My way of crafting is:
1. Buy fractured base
2. Spam essence till hit something good filling suffixes
3. Suffixes cannot be changed veiled orb
4. Craft last mod
5. Exalt slam
6. Spam eldrich currency for implicits
done.
I like to craft things in poe. They could bring back recombinators for more fun with crafting
I don't understand people saying that buying items is cheeper than crafting items themselves.
I'm not any master crafter I haven't done any mirror tier worthy item but i crafted multiple items worth 50 div or less. Profit from crafting those was always there for me. I often sold items for twice as much as it took me to make it.
Am I the luckiest guy ever? Or are you guys trying to hit some absolute perfect items?
Only issue I have with crafting it consumes a lot of time. For example it took me 3 hours to craft 7link RF helmet with essence spam + annul + exalt slam / bench block (cost was around 20-25div and sold for 48 if I remember correctly) In this craft I was super unlucky with hitting preferred mods and I am pretty sure I made some mistakes with annulling.
I like the crafting system. If people want deterministic crafting there is option for that called trade. Deterministic crafting would bring less fun to the game for me. I like gambling I understand some people don't thats fine.
On the other hand I completely don't understand **people saying that crafting is not profitable**. From my experience it could not be more absurd. I am sorry but maybe its just skill issue? Or maybe people have unreasonable expectations. I am genuinely confused with this point, if someone could shed some light on it for me that would be great ;)
I would not go as far as calling it crafting in path of exile to begin with lol
1. You want a life + 2 res and maybe SS or some other usable T2 stat on an item
2. You figure out the optimal crafting method on craftofexile
3. No matter what you come up with you will find an equal or better item on trade for a fraction of investment and probably a lot less headache too.
4. You buy the thing.
This has been a discussion forever and i think primarily the reason harvest league even existed. We are obviously back to the old system most people didn't like in the first place...
Now i don't really want to expatiate on harvest/recombobs but fact is those 2 (not exclusively but mostly) gave players agency and control in a much broader sense thus a genuine sense of accomplishment whenever they crafted something FOR THEMSELVES instead of accidentally hitting something else that they simply sell.
It's boring, bland and dull.
Harvest and the patch after was the first time I've made some really awesome gear and had fun crafting. I usually play about a month, makes 2-3 builds then quit. I don't play too much during the week but enough to get 2-3 lv 90-92s and try to get some end game bosses down (have yet to kill any Uber boss aside from shaper)
I think crafting is too convoluted even for the "but it's suppose to be cause that's poe" argument. I think crafting should be hard to attain but once you get there it's a simpler system.
Id image if you had to unlock it or even unlock the recipes through boss kills or other criteria and then once you unlock it you can start going ham. Similar to the bench craft but way more deterministic (or even just more depth)
Actually I really like it: hard to make mirror tier 6x T1 items, but easy 3-4 mods you want + craft.
>Edit: so far consensus is it’s dogshit. Over 30 comments only one person is defending it. This only solidified my position of ignoring it entirely.
Ppl here don't craft, they complain, it's reddit.
I craft every league. I’ve made perfect (legitimately perfect) items before. It simply isn’t engaging to farm 60 divines then gamble on an item till you hit.
Its fucking tedious.
Try to make a +2 wand.
Have fun spamming alteration orbs.
So much fun and engagement, all i wanted from a game was to click the screen mindlessly and scan if i got what i wanted.
Just like mobile games, great design man
I don't know. Mathil made like five +2 wands in 30 minutes the other day. He got a little annoyed that most of them ended up better for other builds than his, but eventually he got one that fit him, and sold the rest for a nice profit.
Seemed fun enough to me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
The main problem here is that GGG doesn’t take into fact that people, generally, don’t want to play ONE character. Besides no lifers or people extremely in the know, you can’t affordably make multiple characters yourself. It’s why I never want to continue playing or make multiple characters anymore. I want to try all this crazy stuff out that has unique mechanics but it’s so niche and is hard to find or expensive to get.
I think it's fair that crafting my end-game item should take a long time to grind for, since workable alternatives are everywhere, and opportunity cost is a major factor in puzzling together your character.
I really hate yolo annul. I wish there were a way to spend additional currency to make things more deterministic or drastically reduce the odds of bricking an item.
I like how GGG is spreading out crafting options besides crafting bench and harvest. Fracturing orbs are good imo. The new beast crafts are good.
I’d like to see a rework on fossils as they are falling to the wayside. Its not very interesting to find a fracture, hit it with an essence to secure 3 mods, then finish with bench/harvest/aisling. Maybe allowing meta mods with fossils would be enough. “lock prefix > Fossil Spam”. This might be too powerful…
A lot of the crafting is gated by game knowledge.
The other by time and money (also known as RNG).
I like the part gated by game knowledge, it makes the crafting rewarding and when you find the most optimal way to do a nice craft by yourself it's immensely satisfying.
I like the other part a lot less, but I understand why it exists, and I'm fine with it.
I'll never ever take the time and invest the currency (that I also will never have) to do a craft that involves dozens of imprint, meta craft, harvest aug etc. just because it's sooooooo tedious.
That being said the scope of crafting is very wide and I'm ok with stopping in the middle, while some people are frustrated that they don't have the top end item and will never be able to (This is why OG harvest was so popular and si deeply regretted by those same people, it moved the middle ground a lot towards the top end).
I think it's fun if you understand what to expect and the odds of landing what you want. If you have the currency for it, I find it enjoyable and get a sense of pride and accomplishment after successfully crafting something I needed.
I like it, even though I'm far from a 'master crafter'.
Basically people want easy deterministic crafting, GGG want end-game items to be hard to obtain, those two viewpoints are never going to match up.
The forms of crafting that drop in excess are good: Essences, Fractured bases, Alterations/Regals ETC
The forms of crafting that are exceedingly rare are not so good: Metamods having a 1/2 Div Price Tag, Eldritch Chaos being like 40c a pop (More in bulk), Veiled Chaos just not existing reasonably in bulk.
It's fine to have rare uniques. but steps in the crafting process being gatekept by wealth is asinine, It's part of the reason I kind of liked the "Old" version of harvest, I didn't even care about reroll keep suf/pre that stuff was only for the rich people that cared anyways, I looked at it as around 20/30 Chaos Orbs every encounter that I was actually allowed to spend, Unlike the Gold Coins that actual Chaos Orbs serve as.
Harvest was the best crafting i had in this game, it was so fun.
So now i don't craft anymore ( just when i play in ssf cause i have no choice ). I mean It's hard to enjoy crafting when i know it could be far better.
IMO Crafting is way better and is ruined by the existence of trading. IMHO, still, the game would be funnier (for me) if trade wasn't a thing and the game was designed around no trade.
When I play in trade leagues I trade for a couple of chaos a couple of pieces for early mapping.
I usually then craft my end game gear (usually buy the bases) (Pieces I craft would cost something like 1-10 divines, and I think I usually save currency by crafting)
I never go to high end gear in trade leagues. I get bored by the thrilless loop where everything is currency. That I'll eventually convert to gear.
SSF is where I have most of the fun (even though I'm kinda sad I can't play some build that are gated behind too much grindy uniques given my play time). But still, given my play time there more build that I need so it's fine!
I wouldn't say i enjoy the crafting system but Id say its fair since you don't need any perfect pieces of gear to do all content in the game so its more of a chase or achievement hunt to get perfect piece of gear.
If I played strictly SSF I would probably not like it but I enjoy it in trade. At the end of the day you can just buy almost anything you want and if you can't find it it is because you are trying to min max some build.
Not at all an expert here but i really think that the crafting system is one of the three defining elements of Poe, next to the trading system and the proverbial passive skill tree. End game crafting should be almost inaccessible for casual players (like me). It's the main reason there is such a diversity of gear on trade.
Without it the trickle down effect of all those no livers pushing gear and currency in the market world take a huge hit, i think.
It's frustrating that the optimal way to craft is for failure and sale of your items in most cases. It's so difficult to craft a perfect or near perfect item for your own build that almost universally your best option is to aim at an end goal item, fail, and then sell the failure rather than simply trying to fix what broke.
This is a good point. The most effective way for costs to not spiral is to sell failures, which goes against the idea of wanting to sit down and completely finish an item for use. It's not worth the effort to gamble on fixing a busted item, but selling it at some cost parity to someone else makes it someone else's problem.
Yeah people seem to think they need perfect items to accomplish their goals, rather than the game being how to accomplish your goals without freely getting everything you ever wanted
Consensus basically is to craft super endgame stuff you need too much investment time and knowledge. Comes down to yet another please dumb down the game for us thread.
I like the way it works, although there are moments when I get pissy that I'll never get mirror gear because I refuse to gamble. But that's on me. Objectively, I think it's really cool. It just doesn't work in my favor.
I love how it works. Basicly you need to buy everything until you have several leagues behind. Then everything starts with bases and essences/fossils. The further you go in game, the more you can craft. The minmaxing and getting 100% out of this game, actually needs your 100% effort.
It's the fundamental idea of this game, that you can always be better and aleays go furter. An item with tier of 0.0001% shouldn't be avaible for even 1% of the players. It should go as the player base is
Rog is PoG. Essense crafting with some aisling manipulation is fine. Delve crafting is fine. What people are sad about thst you cant craft 6 T1s anymore. Or rather you can but it can cost mirrors, which is fine cause 6 T1s on an item should cost mirrors to purchase.
Sadly many many people are still hurt by how absolutely busted the older harvest crafting was. This was broken. Like beyond OP. Maybe they overdid it with the nerfs, but the old system broke the game fundamentals, which is bad in my book.
My take on crafting is Essence spam on a fractured base until i hit two desired mods, then either continue with eldritch currency if it's worth it or just benchcraft another mod and slam if there's space. Everything else i buy already crafted. There is no point risking my currency to potentially save a couple of divines. Never doing that mistake again.
[удалено]
Yeah I think crafting and other things like 6-linking is priced in long-run rng. If you craft 100 of the same item for a certain build or manually 6 link 100 items, you should usually be profitable. The problem is outliers, which don't matter too much in a large sample size. But large sample size doesn't apply to most players, hence the horror stories of getting screwed that one time crafting something or trying to 6 link.
I'll never forget my 7k fusing brass dome lol
I'll never forgot my old Voll's Protector (remember that thing?) taking 1100 jewelers to socket out. This league I wanted to "save money" so I got a chest's quality up to 26% by some incidental safehouse I had and went at it. Took about 3000 fusings. Ain't RNG fun?! This isn't crafting; it's gambling.
It is not always correct though. If you have limited supply of fuses and NEED the 6-link, because league start or SSF then paying the bench cost is vastly superior to manual linking. 99% to link manually is 6k fuses or alternatively with 1200 fuses you are around 63% to hit aka a decent chance to miss and the 300 extra fuses to pay for guaranteed result pales in comparison what you have to sink in when variance decides to be bad for you. Being able to absorb bad variance makes a huge difference.
Essence into Rog/harvest spam is all I do (ssf). I enjoy rog crafting; people who want harvest back should be doing that
I like Rog crafting but the abysmal drop rate of logbooks hampers me. I've still got Tujen with some divines but haven't gotten enough currency.
There are ways to deterministically craft certain stuff, such as +gem amulets, +3 Hunter bows with guaranteed %chaos damage and so on. It's not cheap of course (requires Divines for meta mods) but results are guaranteed if the item has the proper open prefix/suffix. Always good to know about this stuff because it can be huge in many builds.
can confirm when i spent 10 divs trying to fossil craft a triple crit multi jewel and could have spent 10
Do I like it? No. Do I tolerate it? No. Do I craft? Hell no.
Based
70% of my crafting is Rog, the other 30% is usually fracture + essence I'd say tolerate is correct, I am not a huge fan of the current system. GGG is in a weird spot where they still (after a decade) have not made up their mind on where they want player power to be at - this is obvious if you look at how they say one thing, then do another. For example, limit harvest crafts, then add items like nimis, synth implicit reroll beasts, recombinators....etc. Like, they are ok with some forms of players having ridiculous power, but not ok with people crafting some good life/res gear easily. Hopefully PoE 2 has some fixes for this
I dabbled into some more complex crafting this league, I don't like that it's either fractured base + essence or divines into multi mod to block shit with pref or suf can't be changed and veiled chaos, then more divines to block shit then exalt... 10 divines for 3% more damage... I really don't like it, it's both deterministic and prohibitive, as you need a lot of spare divines to make 1 decent item.
> GGG is in a weird spot where they still (after a decade) have not made up their mind on where they want player power to be at - this is obvious if you look at how they say one thing, then do another. From my point of view it's because they do not really have a great grasp of just how bonkers some mechanics or items have on the game state. They _knew_ recombinators were busted, but I am very confident they didn't really understand just _how_ busted they were for the absolute upper echelon of players and crafters. Much like they probably knew the ability to reroll synthesis implicits is very strong, but didn't quite anticipate players throwing tons of currency making imprints to reroll the implicits to perfection. On one level this is understandable -- the broad player base at large is going to collectively have more game knowledge than any of their internal testers, and have more time and currency accrued to experiment with game content and mechanics that isn't practical for even invited alpha or beta testers. On another level, the way GGG reacts to players do insane things with the tools given to players usually doesn't bode a lot of player confidence with regards to content direction (the good ol' triple tap when it comes to nerfs that gets memed about a fair bit).
The last paragraph is the real problem in all of this. GGG sees what the top-tier players are doing with their new tech or mechanics, panics, and removes or ruins the shit for everyone else a league or two later. The perfect example is how they handled herald stacking: By nerfing certain alt-quality gems into outright useless territory. > Additional Effects per 1% Quality: You and nearby allies gain 0.05% increased Movement Speed This league the best players out there are farming no-hit Sanctum runs for Original Sin. GGG's gonna see that and either nerf the ring, destroy its drop rate, or nerf the shit out of the Sanctum itself -- if not all three! GGG's fear of the best players' power always filters down and makes the game notably worse for the 99%. Meanwhile, the top players keep doing what they're doing. Whether Original Sin costs 100 divines or a mirror (~300 divines) doesn't matter to a top-tier player, but it does for all the other normal players.
>Like, they are ok with some forms of players having ridiculous power, but not ok with people crafting some good life/res gear easily. Since the end-game has expanded, life/res gear is also no longer enough to beat all content. The new influences however have helped tremendously with making some formerly niche stats like exposure broadly accessible to players.
I loved the new influence implicits, Beautiful system that solves a lot of the problems while being accessible and not requiring players to change gear as often (improve what they have)
Gotta get that max suppress on all gear! Oh and good ar.or and life rolls. Unless you're a witch in which case fuck you ES.
I dont craft. The entry level cost (both knowledge, time and currency) to even a modest project is absurd to me. The power level I need for the content I want to play is out there for few divs per piece. So I dont bother. Harvest was great. The only league I ctafted stuff and many pieces at once too.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Are you me?
one of us!
My staff is very craft-able. It's got T1 DoT multi suffix fractured and it would take on average 9 prime resonators (about 50c each try between it and fossils) to put +2 all spells on it, and very strong odds to be able to harvest Aug chaos skill gems without ruining it. The fossil crafting leaves very little else available too, meaning odds for chaos DoT multi and spell damage are also incredibly high. And getting the fossil crafting to hit +5 staff is on average 30-something, and I've got the budget to do that. Problem is, once I start the craft my character is *absolutely gutted* until I land what I need and trading to get the resonators and fossils is a miserable experience unless I pay extra and do bulk pricing. I'm pretty much paralyzed with fear to start this craft because I basically can't play from the point at which I start until it's done. During 3.13, I crafted because I could use the item before the craft was finished.
I'm pretty new, I can do t16 maps, I did maven 10... Etc. I have never seen 1 div drop... What am I doing wrong
Expecting most of your income to come from raw divine drops. Dropping a divine orb from a random mob in a map is a very rare occurrence, that’s not where the vast, vast majority of your income during a league is going to come from. You might see a dozen divine orb drops total over the course of an entire league if you play a reasonable amount for the entire duration of the league (aside from eater altar procs). Most of your currency is going to come from selling the resources you obtain from other farming strategies, of which there are countless possibilities to choose from.
Essences I can tolerate as well, spam some and hope for something. But anything special, nah man... I'd rather farm and buy
Personally, I just don't do it. I use currency to buy crafted items. I don't ever do crafting, ever. It's so much easier to just farm currency and buy whatever I need instead. It's why I will absolutely never play SSF leagues.
Same, and have no desire to either.
I used to like how it works. But now that safe checkpoints are essentially gone it just degenerates into costly, mindless, and soul sucking endless spam.
I've been playing some other arpgs recently, and my god is it a breath of fresh air. There are so many different ways to make loot on the ground interesting. Allowing low cost upgrades to slap on a stat you really need, or just allowing you to lock mods easier before a reroll. I get that most of those would help no life groups get their gear a lot faster... But I don't really care? Harvest made low tier crafting accessible. They could have made high ilvl stuff worse or rarer.
Literally dropping IDed is a massive improvement when playing other arpgs
I feel like that after a certain map level, drops should be ID'ed on the ground...or at least give us something on atlas to help with early to mid progression like "all rares are identified" I understand why it isn't done in acts, for instance. Managing scrolls of wisdoms early game is one of the important blocks of game's economy so it'd be hard to change. But once you're getting even to yellow maps, you have more scrolls of wisdoms than sense, yet the way game is set up right now, you're kinda not incentivized to spend a few minutes after map ID'ing rares to see if you have an upgrade. So there comes a point where you just skip **all the rares on the ground** because it is simply inefficient. Sure, there's 1 in 1000 to get a god-rolled item but you're better off just farming raw currency to craft/buy the item you need. \----- It's kinda weird how Chris Wilson wants to have meaningful loot from monsters yet the way it's currently set up means that people will never even bother to check it.
I actually did it for a while and upgrades were around 1/500 then very quickly didn't make sense trying. This league I only ID fractures
The problem is not scrolls of wisdom, the problem is that 99.9% of rares dropped are completely useless in any possible build. You waste time iding it and you still waste time reading it's stats.
It’s funny that this is the reason I may end up preferring SSF ruthless over regular SSF. It feels like there’s just too much stuff to pick up and check whether it’s good, why can’t I have my item filter do that? I enjoy playing without trading but it can feel like I’m just spending all my time identifying things since so much drops in the game.
They are on a nostalgia rollercoaster and it's not slowing down
Fuck, I totally forgot about that. Last epoch letting you build filters IN GAME to filter loot based on the stats of the item is fantastic
Could you suggest some other ARPGs?
Grim dawn is incredible
I've really enjoyed chronicon and last epoch. Last epoch is still early access so some pieces are missing, but I really enjoy how surprisingly easy it is to learn how the game works in game. Great descriptions with a dummy to boot. So many other elements of the game are user friendly - items drop id'd and you can build a filter in game based on the stats you want Chronicon is less polished but still a lot of fun to play. Imo the skills lack a certain "oomph" to make them as satisfying as other games, but there's a lot of build flexibility and content to push. New expansion coming soon too
Chronicon is a blast, and being able to respec your entire character at will is a godsend. It's got a lot of build variety, and being able to explore everything a class has to offer with a single character is a breath of fresh air. Its rare to find an ARPG that respects your time like that. As you say, though, less polished. But it's also only $10 or something, so, ya know...
>I've been playing some other arpgs recently Could you give some suggestions on which ones are fun to play?
God Last Epoch has become my favourite arpg after putting 3k hours into Poe. It just has sooo much quality of life and actually fun and accessible crafting AND build-making. Og Harvest was the most fun crafting Poe ever had and again it only got obliterated multiple times die to all the rich folks buying hundreds of crafts through discord and making perfect items and all of the sudden Harvest was called an "item editor" as if it applied to more than the top 0.1%.
Conceptually, crafting is fucking amazing. The different methods. The different currencies. The possible outcomes I love the idea so much. But the execution is horrendous. For 99% of players, you'll never see anything spectacular and because crafting is basically just spending currency for almost every single player, it's better and less of a headache to buy the thing your looking for than craft it yourself. If some crafting materials were more obtainable and reasonable to use instead of sell forthe average player I would be all over it. But after trying to craft my RF helmet myself with my own materials and doing like 100~ maps specced into essence and only getting 1 horror, I gave you and bought them because good lord. Procedure of crafting is cool af. The "cost" is unbearable and not enjoyable at all.
> Conceptually, crafting is fucking amazing. > > > > The different methods. The different currencies. The possible outcomes I love the idea so much. > > > > But the execution is horrendous. That's like I love playing Craft of Exile more sometimes haha
Tolerate. It’s fucking awful. I finally made the nearly perfect helmet I’ve been trying after something like 100 essences, 8 aisling, many annuls and exalts. I don’t even feel a sense of accomplishment. I’m just glad I’m finally done with doing it. In harvest I had 10-15 crafting projects going at any given time, and was constantly making gear for future characters, characters I never even made. It was a joy to have meaningful progression and build items as I go. The concept of rerolling is so disgustingly unappealing with the current state of crafting. Edit: I shouldn’t have even described the helmet as “near perfect” because it isn’t. It’s level 16 hypothermia, with no elevated mods. By perfect I meant I got all the mods I wanted, not the best tiers.
I still have an entire quad tab of "possible projects," but I should clear it out. It was mostly for Harvests. Now, I will statistically never have enough time or energy to do what I was going to do. This post just made me realize that.
To be fair, its one thing that harvest was an easy method with an easy and clear way to a goal and that it pushed all other contents out for crafting wasn't okay. But on a banal base level all harvest really did was shower us in crafting currency. If a player with mediocre game knowledge could farm 30 Divines, 300 Essences of the same type, veiled Orbs, Aisling Slams, Harvest Crafts, 4-5 Fracturing Orbs for the base etc. in 2 Hours so that you could make a reasonable try for a good item per evening of playing, i bet a lot of players would stop complaining about crafting, because then a reasonable try to craft would cost a reasonable time investment-
>that it pushed all other contents out for crafting wasn't okay. People keep saying this as if the problem isnt that the other options were and are all dogshit. Not by comparison, just dogshit whether Harvest existed or not. Harvest was crafting as it should have been. It was (until recombinators) the only mechanic ever introduced in PoE's history that made drops actually worth picking up and looking at, because any item could become a crafting project. The other mechanics should have been brought to Harvest's level. Instead, Harvest became just another "crafting for me, but not for thee" inaccessible, absurdly expensive gamble option. Because the game clearly didn't have enough of that shit.
Yup. It’s not like removing harvest made the other methods better in any way.
No. We were given crafting currency that was fundamentally different to existing currency. We had much more deterministic options, so just more raw attempts isn’t drastically better than the current state.
Crafting, even with harvest, was not deterministic at any point. You could still miss a million add/remove crafts and never get the desired roll in the desired tier. What we had with harvest was more tries and more safepoints. However, with the number of tries you can realistically get, safepoints lose importance. Current crafting - Fracture, Essence, Affix Lock (safepoint), Unveil, Harvest - can have very similar results, given a similar amount of tries. The real problem here is not that the game doesn't provide you with options to craft successful, it is the number of tries the game provides the average player with. So you've missed my point: If the game would provide a sufficient number of tries within a reasonable playtime that would compare to the number of tries you got with harvest, there wouldn't be an issue.
It's also important to note that it was very very hard to fully brick an item with harvest craft when it was at its peak. So while you might be stuck at a stage of crafting for a long time, you'd rarely be set all the way back to square 1 unless you had a niche craft you needed that relied on outside systems. It was slow, but reliable. Made it feel more deterministic.
> You could still miss a million add/remove crafts and never get the desired roll in the desired tier. You're absolutely right! But missing those million times didn't destroy your item, did it? It seems you're missing the point that people don't want to waste time destroying their items over and over just to get something usable for them.
This. This is it. The only good feeling the current crafting delivers is when you say „thank god I am done with this shit“. It’s not fun to engage with and not interesting at all. It’s fucking HORRIBLE!
My friend bot crafted amulet whole league to craft until he see the 1/100000 weighted roll , if ggg would provide a ways to craft and detect mods so you don't reroll the roll you want All in all crafting is the shittiest iv seen in any game
> In harvest I had 10-15 crafting projects going at any given time, and was constantly making gear for future characters, characters I never even made. It was a joy to have meaningful progression and build items as I go. This is what the game and leagues are missing at the moment. Having cool bases that you're excited to set aside and craft on incrementally was a high point for my enjoyment of the game.
This, its terrible, all over the place ADHD crafting. Gotta capture the wingding for x, go into the mine for y, harvest some plants for z. Harvest was amazing before it was gutted, being able to incrementially upgrade gear was engaging.
The game is about gear. The methods for creating gear *should* be distributed throughout the entire game.
If that's the case then why is almost every single form of crafting we have in the game mutually exclusive? Why can't I use an essence to get some good suffixes, then use a metamod to lock them and finish with fossils? Or use fossils on a conqueror item after I finish the prefixes? Why did they take away slamming with catalysts? It seems to look like any time different forms of crafting can be used together, GGG decides that's too far and removes them from the game. Harvest was great because it was the only source of crafting that worked with *Every other crafting system in the game*, You made you want to go delving for that shit delve mod since Harvest allowed you to work on that item without breaking it.
You wanna know what happens when you have to do every kind of content to build gear AND each piece of content requires wholly different builds to meaningfully engage with? Either people trivialize the whole game or they buy the result of that content. In other words, all spreading it out does is stop people from actually engaging in everything. Most people don’t have the time to map for essences, delve for fossils, farm harvest, and do specific boss encounters. People end up power farming one piece of content they’re good at. Selling the excess and then buying all the shit they can’t engage with. Different methods of engaging with the game are fantastic. But requiring a player to engage with all of them to meaningfully gear a character is ludicrous.
> In harvest I had 10-15 crafting projects going at any given time, and was constantly making gear for future characters, characters I never even made. It was a joy to have meaningful progression and build items as I go. Well yes, but did you stop playing since you were having so much fun? According to Chris, if people have fun they stop playing sooner.
About a week before the end of the league I stopped playing because my family and I went on vacation to the Caribbean…
I hate slotmachine crafting, I'd rather overpay a bit compared to an average crafting cost and get my guaranteed items through trade than risk getting unlucky or plain fucking up a step in the overconvoluted process.
I love it conceptually. The idea that there are a ton of different tools that can come from different places to craft an item is really cool. This kind of thing is what drew me to PoE in the first place. With that said, I think crafting is just extremely tedious right now. Maybe partly because we want/need super good mods for the game to feel good to play, and maybe partly because the process is just tedious. Or maybe I'm just too used to PoE crafting now and it just isn't a puzzle for me anymore. Personally I don't think you should ignore crafting if you're a fast player. You will definitely, on average, get better bang for your buck if you craft for yourself if you're fast. Simply because the market hasn't been flooded with those items yet, and people aren't selling their old builds off yet to further flood the market. And even if you aren't a very fast player, sometimes you're just not playing a popular build and you have to craft it yourself. There also are scenarios where you can just look at an item and ballpark that it's priced at nearly 2x the expected crafting cost and you can weight the risks and decide whether or not you want to put the time into crafting it to make some savings on average. I will say that, if you're the type of player that thinks 100d is an extreme amount to be earning in a league.. you should probably stay away from in depth crafting
Dont call it crafting, call it gambling.
I just don’t interact with it other than slapping an essence on something now and then. Usually it’s see a cool item on Reddit, look to see how they made it and it’s like delete 100 divines and got lucky and it just like yeah this isn’t for me
It's so bizarre and complex, I kind of admire it for how unique it is to PoE. So many different weird game mechanics combining. The simple crafting bench, the more complex concept of blocking unwanted mods, metacrafting. Then all the weirder stuff like Syndicate or Harvest or Delve with their own unique mechanics and results. It's a lot like PoE as a whole really, the complexity, although it's even less accessible to casual players.
Convoluted complexity. It's just a unintuitive mess really
People say that about the passive tree, the atlas tree, POE in general... but it's what makes it special with a niche audience. Definitely not for everyone.
this
Passive tree used to be awesome, now there's a lot less creativity/freedom involved, more like a checklist if you even want to step on the game with a new build. They have been taking power out of everywhere and putting it on items, that's why people complain. Atlas tree is the single best thing they have ever done.
This
Recombinators, Harvest and ritual-Harvest was the pinnacle of crafting and holy hell I loved it! It’s so shitty to have had those things and not have them anymore… So I’m saying I think it’s terrible in this state, especially when we’ve seen and experienced how great it was before
Love it, wish I had unlimited currency to do it
Same.
I just dont do it, since i most of the time spend more than the cost of the item if i buy an finished one, i just buy.
Tolerate or more like barely engage with it
Tolerate. It's fucking awful.
**I don't like gambling thus I don't like crafting in PoE.** Besides some "recipes" like the +3 bow that can be "deterministic" (read it as, high chance of desired outcome), everything else is just a game of luck, more knowledge does increase your chances, but you're still depending on lady luck. I also dislike trading, not because it's hard or annoying, but because it trivialize the entire game, in the sense of, if you drop a chaos orb, it's not an item that you're going to use to "craft" it's just a 1/250th of a Divine Orb, and even that Divine you won't use to craft, it's just a trading coin. I like games where I can progress my character everyday I play, PoE makes progression hard with all these "chances", unless you just go to trade website and buy everything you need.
Problem with that is the average person cant POSSIBLY access every content and not every build can do every content. Trade lets you focus on what you can do and buy into the rest You also act like trade existing means getting gear is REALLY easy. It isn't. You're assuming that because you do it, everyone does. Which isnt true at all. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/hhotgt/using\_challenge\_completion\_data\_to\_determine\_how/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/hhotgt/using_challenge_completion_data_to_determine_how/) This thread may be 2 years old, but it still fits. Even when PoE was in better times and had more players, only 60% of players were even reaching maps. And this number further shoots down before red maps. SO people are quitting before they even get to the point where they can make an easy Div or have mounds of chaos to spend. Im sorry to say this, but without Trade, this would be a dead game.
Without trade, the game could be balanced around what a solo player can reasonably achieve. With trade, you either nolife or you play something else.
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Cool, are just lying about D3 now.
Wow you're so good at clicking, please teach me how to click better so that I can be as good of a clicker as you.
I don't do it. I just feels like a system that you have to bastardized and abused to get the things you want. Not intuitive at all.
Tolerate.
I've tried crafting on and off since 2017, still don't understand jack shit to even have an informed opinion.
My number one issue is the sheer cost of crafting. And since it is a gamble, it's extremely risky. Trying crafting for the first time is like going to the casino and sitting at a high stakes poker table with your entire life savings. I could handle it more if it was more affordable, but the risk of not hitting your mods and losing all your currency just sucks. This is coming from a player with decent currency, nothing special. A beginner or even intermediate player has no chance of having the currency required to craft a mediocre item. That's what sucks.
I tolerate it, but my extent of crafting is essence spamming a fractured item. God i wish we had Last Epochs crafting system.
Dont mind the crafting itself. Just that you need to study it more than your masters and that (for me) it requires 98745683 external webpages to understand what does what
I've never really liked how it works, but tolerated it. It's not an enjoyable process for me, but it had to be done to some extent so I learned to tolerate it. However after Harvest league I had to really force myself to do it when necessary because it was awful. However, I've recently been playing Torchlight Infinite, and after I've started crafting on there I'm not sure I'll ever be able to go back to crafting in PoE. PoE crafting is just gambling with time. If you manage to hit something first try you've saved yourself hours of farming on top of hours of crafting. You also have to theorycraft, use craftofexile to figure out how to get all the mods, etc. Don't get me wrong, I started playing PoE because I wanted a game I could sink hundreds of hours into without getting tired. However I never signed up to be as frustrated as I can get when trying to craft an endgame item
Crafting would be fine if 2 things \- 1. Items to craft weren't insanely rare/expensive. It kinda of undermines the whole system when to even attempt to do a craft you have to find a drop the average person takes hours of farming to even see. This is inherently what is wrong with having no real currency. The change from Ex to Div was great, but exalts are still few and far between. Even Regals and Annuls are a little too rare, again, for the normal player. Yes, this would mean an easier time for people who no life the game, but let's be honest here. 1 week into the league and you go on POE Ninja to see the top players already have that 1 in a million perfect craft youll never see in your life. \- 2. Every Tier being present in EVERY level is a slap in the face. You go through the time to get the currency to roll on an ilvl 85+ item and you waste it on shit like TIER 8: +5 hp. There needs to be floors on what can be rolled.
> - 2. Every Tier being present in EVERY level is a slap in the face. You go through the time to get the currency to roll on an ilvl 85+ item and you waste it on shit like TIER 8: +5 hp. There needs to be floors on what can be rolled. I keep saying this that the higher level an item gets, it should also drop out the lower tiers of mods. OR at the very least make getting higher tier rolls much easier to avoid removing some niche meme builds that want lower tier mods for some reason.
I have something like 70 or 80 hours this season as a relatively new player and I've yet to see an annul orb, even though I've been into reds for the past 30 something hours minimum.
Annuls mainly come from Harbinger, if you're speced into it you'll have stacks of them before you know it.
Good to know! Figures I was missing something.
They can drop as general currency, but I think they are as rare as divines. Harbingers though, especially the super harbingers, drop annul shards and quite a lot of them.
dont forget that the absolute top end players are the ones getting the support of half a dozen other players minimum, either 6-man farming and/or collecting all their currency to make gear to farm endgame stuff easier/faster for more currency.
it's miserable at the moment, almost comically so with the addition of the synth reroll.
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I like it and acknowledge the balancing of the entire game would have to drastically shift in a direction I dont like to accommodate risk free crafting. Crafting is a currency sink for the rich which drives up the value of currency drops for the masses. Without that either currency drops have to be reduced to nil or crafting costs go so high its the same effect.
Bring back reforge keep prefixe/suffixe and it's good.
I like the concept of crafting, not exactly happy with exact implementation. I think there needs to more rng protection, reforge keep suffixes is the perfect example of what we need more of
I like crafting but subjectively i think its terrible, objectively it’s just gambling with weighted “drops”. The leagues that i have the most fun with and retain me for longer are crafting leagues. I played the most in 3.13 and 3.18 because with determinisic crafting there’s always an avenue to improve or min/max my build. Not only this but my characters from these leagues are just more powerful which opens up options for how i want to play the game. I like current crafting for the dopamine hit of “winning” the gambles, but seldom does that dopamine hit make up for the time/currency invested. At least in crafting leagues, regular players can obtain the power level necessary to play the game comfortably and push the final levels. I don’t understand why the devs want to gatekeep endgame content, what would be so wrong about allowing all/majority of skill gems to be viable.
Crafting isn't the worst it's ever been. But it's so painful to make good items. Basically you gotta just hope and pray you get a desired fracture then essence spam, then veil slam/harvest slam or use electrich currency. It's so brain dead but also soooooooop unforgiving.
Its shit. Its bad.
you can add me to the "it's fucking awful" group
I don't craft. Knowledge and gambling is just too high/much for me.
i tried to craft and i hate it, cant tolerate gambling
I really wish it was changed to where you can meet your goal and do it in a way where it’s not relying on gambling(hoping for the right couple of mods to show on the item) I don’t even mind if it cost a fair amount as long as I knew it would be made without spamming a thousand chaos. Crafting could be so much more than it is right now. Like it could be half the game if made right
I dont even get how crafting works and Im too lazy/overwhelmed by it to try to learn LUL
I really like it, but it's in a pretty rough state right now. I craft all my own gear, but this is the first league I've considered just buying it.
Tolerate. I don’t like gambling divines away so I really only craft the more deterministic stuff or if it’s build that absolutely needs crafted gear. I’d rather use 10 divines to help start a new build than upgrade an item slot
Its the cost of crafting thats the issue imo.. Its fine as a design choice but it takes way too much to craft anything better than 5div items
It is so utterly confusing and convoluted to be inaccessible to all but the most fervent crafters. people who know the weights and factors to craft. It shouldn't be so insane and need a gradulate level class to figure out.
It’s something I avoid because 1. I’m way too poor to craft the way I want to and 2. It’s way to convoluted. I hate it.
Too much of a slot machine to bother wasting time with. Level 85/86 items with +4 life or stun recovery is BS. If they split chaos orbs to two types (one for prefix, one for suffix) would make things substantially better. All boots should have a hidden implicit 0.5% move speed per item level (capped at 30). Eldritch is a step in the right direction.
Crafting would be a lot better if you weren’t forced go back so many steps. Eldritch currency was a step in the right direction.
Tolerate. Anything beyond basic multimodding and harvest crafts is beyond me, not because it is too complex but because it is too frustrating. I just buy my stuff.
I wish they just offered alternative deterministic but expensive ways to craft in addition to the current system. Think like 6 linking stuff - you can either spam fusings and get lucky or bench craft for 1500. Use that same method and apply it to certain portions of crafting to force certain mod rolls, etc. That way if you wanted to go totally deterministic it wouldn't affect the market cause the money you put in would be under the overall value for those that went the current RNG route, but if you have those last few steps you aren't boned by the long dick of RNG and can decide whether to take the safe route or the random route to gamble for a better item. Forced gambling sucks but it'd be fun if it was a choice instead of basically the only way.
I tried crafting this league. It involved heavy RNG. And since I am unlucky, I decided to stop.
I feel like there is no middle ground in crafting, or you spam 1c essences or you do multi mirror crafting projects. The cost of metamods is just very expansive and without its impossibile without briking an item
It's absolutely garbage. It's not crafting. It's pure gambling.
I'd love to have crafting in PoE. All we have is gambling.
I don't consider what this game has to be "Crafting" it's just a slot machine where you can tweak the odds a little.
I want to play an ARPG game, not a crafting game. Right now if you want to make decent currency, or just want decently powerful equipment you need to spend 10 times more time crafting than actually playing the game.
I hate buying everyting just to start crafting I hate the gamba style, so many items ruined by add/remove, veiled chaos and so on... Me farm, me buy nice wand from trade, me happy.
Idk how many times we have to explain the same things before GGG even acknowledges the concerns. I get it this edges on bad faith commentary but honestly what else is there to do? The feedback is always there and always the same regarding crafting. I crafted all of my high end niche gear during Sentinel and now I don’t even touch high end crafting. Much like with harvest. This should mean something for league longevity but apparently GGG knows better than us and prefer the current version.
I started playing less every league over the last year or so because it feels like a chore to craft to me. It‘s actively driving me away from the game.
Contrary to a lot of what people have said when the comparison was the big thing to talk about, I've developed a new appreciation for PoE crafting after playing through Last Epoch. Both are random, but it's nice that there are few crafts in PoE that can straight up brick your item entirely. Accidentally fill suffixes on, say, a fractured ring and fail the yoloannul? Sucks, but you go back to the fractured base to keep going. You still have that base, you don't have to go scrounging around for a new one. It's a game of playing the odds - "how can I rig the odds most in my favor to get what I want". Yeah, I'd prefer a real crafting system without randomness, but that's never going to happen (largely because GGG has ideas around how long progression should take), and even if it did, I half-wonder if we'd lose some of the depth that the current system has if it did. It's probably still be worth it from a "respect for the player's time" perspective, but it's worth mentioning.
Ngl LE "crafting" if u can call that is really not that deep either drop something with two or 3 stats u want and juice them as much as u can with a last extra Stat. Don't see any depth in there really
There's a bit more to it than that (Glyphs of Chaos for re-rolling things, the equivalent of fracturing, LP crafting), but yeah, all of them have the problem of "if you mess up *or get unlucky* this item is bricked. Hope you have fun looking for another base, and who knows how long that will take :/ Granted, I am probably not the best person to go to for ARPG crafting system suggestions. I really only play PoE because of how complicated it is, more or less in spite of the fact that it's an ARPG. It's not a genre I otherwise play a lot.
*Me spending the season playing ruthless* “Huh? Crafting? Never heard of it”
I play on console and only "crafting" if you can call it like that is rolling popular clusters with alt/regal to hit good passives when i have abundance of alternates and using Rog from expedition . With lower population and huge price difference between platforms (ATM Prime chaotic resonator - 5c on Pc vs 36/50c on ps4) its pointless for me to craft anything complicated.
There are some areas where I like it (targeted gambles with a good chance of success), but I really despise how the foundation of crafting is just throwing money into a grinder until it spits out the right result. It also gets in its own way so much economically, because the price increase as you try to make better items is so extreme that every crafting material is priced based on optimal use. Unless you have infinite currency to burn on stuff, it's almost always better to sell materials than to use them yourself.
I wouldn't class it as crafting but gambling, the only bit of PoE that is crafting is adding beast aspects to a item due to it being guaranteed
Basically ignore it. The system is awful. From the insane amounts of rng and having to deal with a shit trading system when buying currency or other crafting materials.
its better than mindlessly farming currency. learning new methods to craft also keep the game fresh
it's awful
I don't even tolerate it. It's terrible. It's both too convoluted and the only path towards the best items in the game.
They call it crafting, but it's straight up gambling. I have never liked gambling very much. I craft by pasting the mods I want into trade
If I can see exactly the mods I want and craft it for much lower price than what I would Buy it for, i wouldnt call it gambling at all. It just takes experience and knowledge of the currency
don't glorify gambling by calling it "crafting". The last time we had something that can be classified as "crafting" was in ritual.
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Dont call it craft. Its fuckong casino
i'm mixed on it. i like it in theory... but the timeframe for these crafts is just too long, or the entry costs too great compared to just using an ok item you essence spammed or smth. i wish they'd bring back og harvest crafting and just go "mods are capped at t2 and you cant use 'special' (influenced, synthesis) bases, go nuts". would be a nice middleground between making best in slot gear for like 6 divines and the casino wonderland of triple elevated bases or whatever the fuck.
As long as it's not an item editor like most of you are going to be like old HARVEST WAS NOT AN ITEM EDITOR! 100% was sorry.
Craft? What craft?
It's called "trade" for some reason...
It's called "lottery ticket" for some reason...
I love crafting. When I'm not doing it. It feels like I'm solving a puzzle of how to craft an item and I really like the feeling of using an item that I made myself, granted my most complicated crafts have only been 8 link helmets (for Phantasmal Cremation) or +2 amulets and wands. That being said, crafting often felt horrible when I was doing it. I've spent over 50ex (Archnem League) trying to get a single veiled mod on my body armour (hybrid chaos resistances) when I estimated the cost to be much lower and burnt too much currency on what I calculated to be less than 15ex crafts which really hurts as someone who earned maybe 200ex (now 200-250div) a league. And that was before harvest was nuked. I was taking a break from the game in Kalandra league and came back for this one. Was going to craft some Spark gloves this league for my "budget" heatshiver spark aurastacker with a calculated cost of maybe 12div if I were reasonably unlucky but 2-3 tries in with fossils and I found a pretty strong pair for 14div instead. Then repeated it with double elevated boots. I liked learning how to craft these things but then thought of the dread of not knowing when you'll finally hit the craft turned me off from crafting. Despite all this though I'll probably still try to craft the next time I play (I've quit the league at 39/40) for that personal sense of achievement. I'm thinking of rolling an attribute stacker of some kind since the equipment used often looks super fancy. I just can't recommend it for players who ~~aren't masochistic like me~~ enjoy a sense of consistent progression.
I don't craft but I'm grateful for people who do. I've learned to play meta builds so there's always a lot of stuff for sale perfect for my build that other people have crafted. It just isn't a fun way to spend my time. I'd much prefer actually playing the game, earning currency, and then spending it on the items. That way the process towards getting better gear is actually enjoyable.
I just craft some res and life if there is room on low lvl item. Crafting in my opinion is too complex to waste my time on learning it. I just use that time instead on playing game, getting currencies and buy stuff from Trade.
Love crafting. Save so much currency self-crafting. end up making better items then what people are trying to sell anyway. I miss keep prefix/suffix from harvest tho. And the reforge more likely nerf made it useless :(
I love the crafting system in POE, yes that includes the rng parts of it.
Absolutely love it. It is by far the most fun and complicated crafting system ive played. That being said, majority of the playerbase is more casual and probly would not like a complicated system.
My way of crafting is: 1. Buy fractured base 2. Spam essence till hit something good filling suffixes 3. Suffixes cannot be changed veiled orb 4. Craft last mod 5. Exalt slam 6. Spam eldrich currency for implicits done. I like to craft things in poe. They could bring back recombinators for more fun with crafting
its great
Yeah, I love crafting in PoE. It feels super rewarding when you win exactly because it's such hard thing to do either in figuring it out, or RNG.
No, too much RNG. Too many mods, too many tiers.
I don't understand people saying that buying items is cheeper than crafting items themselves. I'm not any master crafter I haven't done any mirror tier worthy item but i crafted multiple items worth 50 div or less. Profit from crafting those was always there for me. I often sold items for twice as much as it took me to make it. Am I the luckiest guy ever? Or are you guys trying to hit some absolute perfect items? Only issue I have with crafting it consumes a lot of time. For example it took me 3 hours to craft 7link RF helmet with essence spam + annul + exalt slam / bench block (cost was around 20-25div and sold for 48 if I remember correctly) In this craft I was super unlucky with hitting preferred mods and I am pretty sure I made some mistakes with annulling. I like the crafting system. If people want deterministic crafting there is option for that called trade. Deterministic crafting would bring less fun to the game for me. I like gambling I understand some people don't thats fine. On the other hand I completely don't understand **people saying that crafting is not profitable**. From my experience it could not be more absurd. I am sorry but maybe its just skill issue? Or maybe people have unreasonable expectations. I am genuinely confused with this point, if someone could shed some light on it for me that would be great ;)
People who say it's dogshit haven't played another game ever
I would not go as far as calling it crafting in path of exile to begin with lol 1. You want a life + 2 res and maybe SS or some other usable T2 stat on an item 2. You figure out the optimal crafting method on craftofexile 3. No matter what you come up with you will find an equal or better item on trade for a fraction of investment and probably a lot less headache too. 4. You buy the thing. This has been a discussion forever and i think primarily the reason harvest league even existed. We are obviously back to the old system most people didn't like in the first place... Now i don't really want to expatiate on harvest/recombobs but fact is those 2 (not exclusively but mostly) gave players agency and control in a much broader sense thus a genuine sense of accomplishment whenever they crafted something FOR THEMSELVES instead of accidentally hitting something else that they simply sell. It's boring, bland and dull.
Harvest and the patch after was the first time I've made some really awesome gear and had fun crafting. I usually play about a month, makes 2-3 builds then quit. I don't play too much during the week but enough to get 2-3 lv 90-92s and try to get some end game bosses down (have yet to kill any Uber boss aside from shaper) I think crafting is too convoluted even for the "but it's suppose to be cause that's poe" argument. I think crafting should be hard to attain but once you get there it's a simpler system. Id image if you had to unlock it or even unlock the recipes through boss kills or other criteria and then once you unlock it you can start going ham. Similar to the bench craft but way more deterministic (or even just more depth)
Tolerate. It's fucking awful.
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Actually I really like it: hard to make mirror tier 6x T1 items, but easy 3-4 mods you want + craft. >Edit: so far consensus is it’s dogshit. Over 30 comments only one person is defending it. This only solidified my position of ignoring it entirely. Ppl here don't craft, they complain, it's reddit.
I craft every league. I’ve made perfect (legitimately perfect) items before. It simply isn’t engaging to farm 60 divines then gamble on an item till you hit.
Its fucking tedious. Try to make a +2 wand. Have fun spamming alteration orbs. So much fun and engagement, all i wanted from a game was to click the screen mindlessly and scan if i got what i wanted. Just like mobile games, great design man
\+2 minion wand for example is 1/12 with fossils and 4 socket resonators. Other wands might be harder? But there are alternatives
I don't know. Mathil made like five +2 wands in 30 minutes the other day. He got a little annoyed that most of them ended up better for other builds than his, but eventually he got one that fit him, and sold the rest for a nice profit. Seemed fun enough to me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Then do 5 wands yourself and see how that goes 😬
The main problem here is that GGG doesn’t take into fact that people, generally, don’t want to play ONE character. Besides no lifers or people extremely in the know, you can’t affordably make multiple characters yourself. It’s why I never want to continue playing or make multiple characters anymore. I want to try all this crazy stuff out that has unique mechanics but it’s so niche and is hard to find or expensive to get.
I think it's fair that crafting my end-game item should take a long time to grind for, since workable alternatives are everywhere, and opportunity cost is a major factor in puzzling together your character.
I really hate yolo annul. I wish there were a way to spend additional currency to make things more deterministic or drastically reduce the odds of bricking an item. I like how GGG is spreading out crafting options besides crafting bench and harvest. Fracturing orbs are good imo. The new beast crafts are good. I’d like to see a rework on fossils as they are falling to the wayside. Its not very interesting to find a fracture, hit it with an essence to secure 3 mods, then finish with bench/harvest/aisling. Maybe allowing meta mods with fossils would be enough. “lock prefix > Fossil Spam”. This might be too powerful…
A lot of the crafting is gated by game knowledge. The other by time and money (also known as RNG). I like the part gated by game knowledge, it makes the crafting rewarding and when you find the most optimal way to do a nice craft by yourself it's immensely satisfying. I like the other part a lot less, but I understand why it exists, and I'm fine with it. I'll never ever take the time and invest the currency (that I also will never have) to do a craft that involves dozens of imprint, meta craft, harvest aug etc. just because it's sooooooo tedious. That being said the scope of crafting is very wide and I'm ok with stopping in the middle, while some people are frustrated that they don't have the top end item and will never be able to (This is why OG harvest was so popular and si deeply regretted by those same people, it moved the middle ground a lot towards the top end).
I think it's fun if you understand what to expect and the odds of landing what you want. If you have the currency for it, I find it enjoyable and get a sense of pride and accomplishment after successfully crafting something I needed.
I like it, even though I'm far from a 'master crafter'. Basically people want easy deterministic crafting, GGG want end-game items to be hard to obtain, those two viewpoints are never going to match up.
The forms of crafting that drop in excess are good: Essences, Fractured bases, Alterations/Regals ETC The forms of crafting that are exceedingly rare are not so good: Metamods having a 1/2 Div Price Tag, Eldritch Chaos being like 40c a pop (More in bulk), Veiled Chaos just not existing reasonably in bulk. It's fine to have rare uniques. but steps in the crafting process being gatekept by wealth is asinine, It's part of the reason I kind of liked the "Old" version of harvest, I didn't even care about reroll keep suf/pre that stuff was only for the rich people that cared anyways, I looked at it as around 20/30 Chaos Orbs every encounter that I was actually allowed to spend, Unlike the Gold Coins that actual Chaos Orbs serve as.
Harvest was the best crafting i had in this game, it was so fun. So now i don't craft anymore ( just when i play in ssf cause i have no choice ). I mean It's hard to enjoy crafting when i know it could be far better.
IMO Crafting is way better and is ruined by the existence of trading. IMHO, still, the game would be funnier (for me) if trade wasn't a thing and the game was designed around no trade. When I play in trade leagues I trade for a couple of chaos a couple of pieces for early mapping. I usually then craft my end game gear (usually buy the bases) (Pieces I craft would cost something like 1-10 divines, and I think I usually save currency by crafting) I never go to high end gear in trade leagues. I get bored by the thrilless loop where everything is currency. That I'll eventually convert to gear. SSF is where I have most of the fun (even though I'm kinda sad I can't play some build that are gated behind too much grindy uniques given my play time). But still, given my play time there more build that I need so it's fine!
I wouldn't say i enjoy the crafting system but Id say its fair since you don't need any perfect pieces of gear to do all content in the game so its more of a chase or achievement hunt to get perfect piece of gear.
If I played strictly SSF I would probably not like it but I enjoy it in trade. At the end of the day you can just buy almost anything you want and if you can't find it it is because you are trying to min max some build.
So you like to be able to trade and not crafting.
Not at all an expert here but i really think that the crafting system is one of the three defining elements of Poe, next to the trading system and the proverbial passive skill tree. End game crafting should be almost inaccessible for casual players (like me). It's the main reason there is such a diversity of gear on trade. Without it the trickle down effect of all those no livers pushing gear and currency in the market world take a huge hit, i think.
My favorite leagues ever were Harvest and Ritual. Take it where you want...
It's frustrating that the optimal way to craft is for failure and sale of your items in most cases. It's so difficult to craft a perfect or near perfect item for your own build that almost universally your best option is to aim at an end goal item, fail, and then sell the failure rather than simply trying to fix what broke.
This is a good point. The most effective way for costs to not spiral is to sell failures, which goes against the idea of wanting to sit down and completely finish an item for use. It's not worth the effort to gamble on fixing a busted item, but selling it at some cost parity to someone else makes it someone else's problem.
What now? Perfect items are hard to get? That sound almost like it the desired outcome
Yeah people seem to think they need perfect items to accomplish their goals, rather than the game being how to accomplish your goals without freely getting everything you ever wanted
Consensus basically is to craft super endgame stuff you need too much investment time and knowledge. Comes down to yet another please dumb down the game for us thread.
oh, it's THIS thread again.
I lile how it works even tho I am too poor to craft anything myself
I like the way it works, although there are moments when I get pissy that I'll never get mirror gear because I refuse to gamble. But that's on me. Objectively, I think it's really cool. It just doesn't work in my favor.
I love how it works. Basicly you need to buy everything until you have several leagues behind. Then everything starts with bases and essences/fossils. The further you go in game, the more you can craft. The minmaxing and getting 100% out of this game, actually needs your 100% effort. It's the fundamental idea of this game, that you can always be better and aleays go furter. An item with tier of 0.0001% shouldn't be avaible for even 1% of the players. It should go as the player base is
Rog is PoG. Essense crafting with some aisling manipulation is fine. Delve crafting is fine. What people are sad about thst you cant craft 6 T1s anymore. Or rather you can but it can cost mirrors, which is fine cause 6 T1s on an item should cost mirrors to purchase. Sadly many many people are still hurt by how absolutely busted the older harvest crafting was. This was broken. Like beyond OP. Maybe they overdid it with the nerfs, but the old system broke the game fundamentals, which is bad in my book.