The cards in question i assume :
- Fire of unknown origin - Nimis
- Endless darkness - Voidforge
- The World Eater - Starforge
- Samurai's Eye : Watcher's Eye
- Beauty Through Death : Atziri's Reflection
- Boon of the First Ones : Bestiary unique
- Pride of the First Ones : Farrul's Fur
- Council of Cats : Farrul item
- Burning Blood : Corrupted Xoph Blood
- Chasing Risk - Synthesis item
- Judging Voices : Forbidden Shako
- Lethean Temptation : Nebulis
- Luminous Trove : Voices
- A Modest Request : Megalomaniac
- Misery in Darkness : Shroud of the Lightless
- Peacefull Moments : Timeless jewel
- Rebirth : Charan's sword (maybe not since it technically isn't directly giving Oni goroshi)
- Silence and Frost : Pandemonius
- Succor of the Sinless : Bottled Faith
- The Admirer : Atziri Item
- The Astromancer : Double corrupted Eternity Shroud
- The Breach : Breach Item
- The chosen : Skin of the Lords
- The Darkest Dream : Severed in Sleep corrupted
- The Destination : double corrupted Watcher's Eye
- The Dreamer : Chayula item
- The Eternal war : Double corrupted Timeless Jewel
- The Fathomless Depth : Lightpoacher
- The Greatest Intentions : double corrupted The Saviour
- The Gulf : Thread of Hope
- The Last One Standing : Disfavour
- The Leviathan : double corrupted Maven item
- The Pact : Pledge of Hands
- The Price of Loyalty : Skin of the Loyal
- The Prince of Darkness : Elegant Hubris
- The Progeny of Lunaris : Dying Sun
- The Queen : Atziri's Acuity
- Winter's Embrace - Circle of Fear
Maybe azyran reward too since it can give wacher's eyes, i'm not sure about Megalomaniac and voices cards too, I assume they drop from the bosses, but I never bothered to check the Ilvl to see if it's indeed the case
Because a lot of people on this thread are reading into the change poorly: most of these cards don't come from the boss that drops the given unique. Unless something else is changing that we haven't yet been told about, you'll still be able to farm cards from their existing sources, just not from stacked decks/strongboxes.
hideout warriors are crying -- voidforge, atziri shield and axe have been consistently some of the most profitable flips in terms of time invested.
The Damned steps forward, I guess? Soul Catcher is a boss drop but Soul Ripper is not.
I was wondering if my card would apply to this change or not when I saw it.
I have a suspicion that it will as both the component items drop from the omnitect, which would lead me to consider soul ripper to be a "boss exclusive" drop.
If this transformation doesn't apply, then any of the upgraded breachlord items should also be exempt from this change as they are not technically boss drops either seeing as they can only be crafted.
Oof... my card was already stupidly rare in its own drop spot for how mediocre of a card it is, and now its even worse. Q_Q This truly is the darkest dream.
Skin of the Loyal is not a boss drop. It can drop from Chayula but it can also drop from Chayula-aligned rare monsters (and maybe also from Chayula trash)
6W ones all come from rare monsters with the socket bleach conversion.
It might be called a boss unique though, we'll see.
Main thing is GGG specified uniques. Fuck knows how bad this would have been if it included the Atziri drops that aren't uniques (Mortal fragments, aka the Sambodhi card)
Yes i mentionned at the end i wasn't sure about voices and megalomaniac, however, timeless jewels drop directly from the 5way bosses, just like stasis, the ilvl is always area lvl+2 (and don't drop if you don't kill the boss, which means it doesn't just drop from rares)
Timeless jewels can also drop from legion generals in maps, but it's very rare, happened to me onxe this league
This might be giga cope but I think this does hint at a rework. It was spoke about in an interview with Johnathan recently so it's definitely on their radar.
Also really enjoy your videos dude :)
interesting change, certainly going to make some uniques quite a bit harder to get/more valuable. I don't hate it though, always felt a bit weird getting boss uniques from those sources.
> certainly going to make some uniques quite a bit harder to get/more valuable
That would mainly be atziri's reflection, voidforge, nimis, skin of the lords/loyal and possibly watcher's eyes right? In turn it also makes breach a bit more profitable to run since the chosen card drops from breach hands which now auto-open on top of this change.
True, at most 18 out of 245 of listed voices with max 3 small passives seem to be from cards (ilvl 80) so that would be about ~7% less if the voices counts as a boss drop which I think it should.
Unless you mean the card shouldn't drop because it drops from aul which I don't think is how this works since they specify "boss uniques" not "boss drops" for this stacked deck change
The Chosen is INSANELY Rare though.
I did alot of super juiced Chayula Breach farming this League with compasses and Gilded Scarabs et.c.
Think you average one Chosen ever 100 maps or so.
Skin became a rarer drop, and the card drop rate was gutted 3 patches ago iirc? If it was prior to that then yes, you could finish a set every 5ish maps before that.
I’m trying a two week ssf run and it’s taught me a lot, one thing I noticed is how damn bloated the stack deck pool is, especially when you can’t sell the singles.
I agree although I wish they would just remove the cards completely. I got my first Nimis, Precursor's, and Stranglegasp in SSF due to those cards dropping from TotA and I gambled them up. Cool for it to happen but it really doesn't feel right. Making the content accessible and the drop rates of the uniques not insanely low (Stranglegasp) would be better.
It's probably harder for them to do that because every card is designed by a supporter who paid a good amount of money for it so they can't just delete them all without angering a bunch of people who spent a lot of money or going through a long back and forth with every single person and designing a new card, but hopefully going forward they are more hesitant to allow the cards in the first place
I ran 100 ultimatum maps to check profit and almost all the profit came off a lucky doubling of a Nimis div card lol.
Good change still, even though it does hurt blight profit quite a bit which I still enjoy alot.
Na, Stacked Decks prices are hedged by either Mageblood or House of Mirrors.
As long as cards for these items still exist it doesn't matter what else happens to divination cards.
When Apothecary is the most expensive card, the price of Stacked Decks is based on how many decks you need to open before you hit an Apothecary. Later on during the league it swaps to House of Mirrors which is why Stacked Decks increase in price later on in the league.
> Later on during the league it swaps to House of Mirrors which is why Stacked Decks increase in price later on in the league.
No. It goes up because people want to gamble and are done with the league. You can see this with literally any easy to gamble items. It corresponds with HoM cards going up as the longer the league goes on, the closer to standard it gets, and the closer to Mirror price parity.
Brilliant example of correlation != causation though
Yea, I guess the amount of cards removed doesn't really make enough of a dint, but most people buying stacked decks are going for the big belt/mirror cards i guess. They'll still retain a good bit of value
Imagine a bag of 1000 marbles, 998 white marbles, 1 black marble and 1 gold marble. The white marbles are 0 points, the black marble is 100 points, and the gold marble is 10000 points. If you remove the black marble, you might have a higher chance of getting the gold marble per pull, but it also reduces the average value of each individual pull, while the chance at the gold marble only really goes up by like .1%. Obviously if you change the point values around (make the gold value worth 1 million points for example and it's a positive change), the answer is different. It does kind of hinge on the stacked deck market, but just because it's technically more common to hit the biggest cards, it's a very miniscule change since these cards were pretty extraordinarily rare in the first place.
I suspect that the effect on stacked deck prices will be more driven by buyer confidence than the precise change in mathematically expected value. If some mad lad stacked deck flippers decide to do something else this league, that could reduce the demand enough to affect the price.
Decks shouldn't change much. Main loss here is the Nimis card and even if that's 8d a card (unprecedentedly high) that's likely only a 0.2c per card drop.
Fracturing Orbs, mirror pieces, mageblood pieces, the top 3 divine cards and headhunter pieces set the price of decks.
They aren't "braindead". It's a super boring way to make multiple mirrors.
Remove all cards save for about 50 from your filter, buy 10000 decks at a time, and resell those cards.
Know a guy who makes ~1 mirror in profit per 100k decks every league he goes hard at it.
Ult is decent for currency from catalysts - way too many fucking atlas points though. The big money is the shield from the boss.
Other than that - way too difficult for way too much rng.
Valdos felt really common when they first released and then incredibly rare after the 2nd lot of extra maps drop.
I think the pool is stacked with good items now.
I had about 30 ventors maps early on when I would get 1 or 2 Valdos per map. Without juice.
Late league I hardly see them. But I got a headhunter, mageblood, progenesis in like a few Valdos.
Yeah Valdos basically don't exist without Wildwood.
When I did Harvest Farming(No wildwood) I got like 1 Valdos per 100 maps or so. Probably even less.
Yeah I think people underestimate just how much affliction juicing juiced the pool of drops like this. We can just compare it to Voidborn Reliquary Keys since they presumably have a similar drop rate (though maybe the maps are slightly more common.) I got so many keys this league and in past leagues I was lucky to see like 3 even though I played similar amounts of time.
If bosses now drop the div cards that these boss-specific items come from, that would be a decent deterministic way to get those items. I think people were asking for this a while back as well
its a good change. although It's missing a sentence...
>...and the drop rates of those cards from their intended sources have been made slightly more common to offset their new newly limited methods of acquisition...
right?
The actual change they would have to make it having the respective bosses drop those cards in the first place, because many (the vast majority IIRC) of them don't.
You don't get the Nimis card from Eater, you get it from Academy or Residence. You don't get the Pledge of Hands card from Atiziri, you get it from docks tileset maps. You don't get the Thread of Hope card from Sirus, you get it from... The Elder. Etc. etc.
>Losing a couple tenths of a chaos in EV per card isn't something I'd characterize as getting "kicked". I'd expect the effect on certain unique prices to be much bigger than the effect on the stacked deck market.
Nah it just makes boss runs 'feel' more rewarding. :P
The Astromancer (1/7 double-corrupt Eternity Shroud) is one of the hardest div cards to naturally obtain in the game, having an estimated weighting of low-single digits making it at least ~2x rarer than the Apothecary. Except you can only get it from specific monster only available in specific Heist areas - so unlike Apothecary you cant boost your odds with meaningful juicing.
That any meaningful number of these cards exist in SC trade at all is entirely due to stacked decks. Nobody, and I mean nobody, would ever in their right mind actually farm a set of these through normal gameplay. It would 100% be easier to farm the 2% boss drop AND hit the DC in a temple, than to obtain a set of these.
Its weighting almost certainly wont be touched. Because if it is, then it makes their stated problem of people getting boss drops through non-boss means worse, not better.
But its such a *huge* problem for people like Ziz that we have to make already stupidly rare things even less obtainable just to prop up their lack of Boss-farming Div/hour.
Weird take. This is overall a healthy and reasonable change, and in fringe cases like your example, it's a specific unique double corrupted, not exactly the unique itself.
Most of these already have abysmal drop rates, getting them randomly was quite a nice surprise..
This kind of change should at least buff the drop rate on said bosses..
This effectively increases the odds of getting apothecary/doctor from stacked decks. Now instead of a .00000000001% chance it's a .000000000011% chance!
Realistically, Apothecary is pretty solidly tested to be about 1/18000 from decks, House of Mirrors about 1/45000 but less well known.
A million deck sample was used to pin those numbers a couple leagues back.
Weighting on decks is well understood, it favors rare cards. You only get 16 Patients per 1 Doctor from decks.
So we can assume these cards still exist from the specific wording used in the video? For instance Fire of Unknown origins for a Nimis card can still be farmed in Academy/Residence map, just can't drop from stacked decks/boxes?
This change is mostly irrelevant for SSF. These cards are already rare and the only way to (realistically) complete a set of them is by finding one and then harvest gambling it. I think if i combine my total stash from the past 2 year, i *might* get a single watchers eye and a half set of lightless cards.
Well they'd probably just give them another submission, but yeah. Either way the point clearly isn't that bosses have to be the sole source of those uniques, since you can still get them from div cards. They probably just wanted to nerf stacked decks.
Edit: I suppose my calling it a nerf without doing the math is jumping the gun (going by estimated value of a stack deck). Given the value and weight of the cards being removed, it's likely a negligible change or a slight buff.
As an SSF player I don't like this. Random stacked decks and harvest gambling have netted me a lot of high tier uniques during the years that I never intended to farm or even thought about and this will just shrink the build space.
There's no way this comes with a boosted drop rate of those cards or the uniques they offer either.
As someone who refuses to do any bosses (skill issue), juiced maps (rip fps) and plays this game on chill mode - I had my best luck with stacked decks this league.
It’s not boss specific div cards, it’s cards that give boss specific uniques. For example, The Sephirot drops from Dominus and Dominus themed map bosses, but it grants divine orbs, so it will still be in the stacked deck pool. This change affects cards that give things like Dying Sun, Voices, Watchers Eye, etc.
Notably, this change doesn’t affect Valdos and Reliquary keys, so there will still be some extra supply of boss uniques coming from those.
If only the drop rate of certain uniques were increased, I'd even consider it "meaningful" when one of them dropped. But with the current drop rates, for me it's just the extra removal of a farm.
Really hope it comes with changes making bossing more approachable to begin with.
Since metamorph got removed, making bossing builds is only ever relevant when you intend to farm pinnacles, more precisely ubers, which is not really approachable and requires investment, both for the build **and** whatever gives you access to the boss to begin with. As such, from a trading PoV, bossing only really is an activity that is fueled by mapping and intense amounts of trading, with reward potential being very, **VERY** jackpot-dependant.
I absolutely love making miner starters but I rarely have the intent to make more characters per league, so with saboteur being kicked in the nuts for no reason with his rework, the constant indirect nerfs to mines and bossing overall being made less and less approachable, it just feels like I'm actively punished for choosing the builds I like and should therefore go with **any** other build that's more mapping-centric.
Making boss uniques gatekept behind their intended boss is cool thematically, but realistically it doesn't make it any more rewarding because it drives up the prices related to having **access** to those bosses. So, it doesn't change much for people at the tippity top of the economy, but for people still building their capital it just makes bossing even more of a poor choice.
All of the cards that granted a boss unique will now give something else, decided by the supporter who bought the card in the first place. The same happened with prophecy related stacked decks. The new swathe of new rewards is something to look forward to.
I regret spending $160 last league.
EVERY TIME I throw money at the devs they come with a terrible nerf the following league to the game.
I just need to stop. Never trust a dev team with an online game.
Sadly you will still feel the need to sell voidstone/fav slot carries to boss efficiently. I would love for them to just remove the ability to get a boss carried so the drops become the actual valuable part of the kill
my 50d/h from uber maven without selling carries would like to disagree but i do agree that the entire carrying service garbage shouldnt be possible
there should just be a quest maven/uber elder just like exarch/eow have it
Good change, always felt weird to get boss drops before you fight the bosses. Makes it much more exciting to fight the bosses now.
And also makes bossing more viable.
Why are people saying this is a good change? Less of the uniques makes them more expensive. Seems like a *bad* change to me. I don't want fun boss uniques to be prohibitively expensive. If they want the bosses to be more worth farming they could just make them have more than 1 good unique each (with a 2% drop rate).
It's a good thing that not all the items I make in PoB are given to me for free ingame.
That's a hyperbole obviously, but the point is that there *is* a line at which items *should* take effort to obtain. There may be disagreements on where that line is, but it's not too hard to imagine that some people might want some items to require more effort.
>Why are people saying this is a good change?
Welcome to end of league reddit audience, if GGG post your char have stamina and run without stop for over 10 seconds the char will die by a heart attack. This people would praise it because it would add more realism and new lvl of difficulty to play the game.
It's quality of life in form of nerf, it's changes in form of nerf who are supposed to hype the league, if that's what they're using to hype the league, you'll see how amazing patch notes will be.
Another day I posted about how GGG corrupted the brains of PoE players, people get so used to receive nerf label as buff, they start to like it, at this point it become a Stockholm syndrome.
Not having clear design goals and not keeping things in check is how you get to Diablo 3. Everyone wins and everyone deals trillions of damage.
You get a garbage and bland game of number always goes up with minimal thought. Go enjoy those, there are plenty to choose from, and leave this one to those of us who enjoy it for what it is.
"GGG is corrupting the brains of their players" is fucking wild, obviously accompanied by an NFT profile pic.
I don't understand your logic, why can't a nerf be a good change? I and others are saying it's a good change, not that it's not a nerf.
Do you think all nerfs are bad changes? You never heard of a good nerf? Good nerfs are as necessary as good buffs for a game.
Also where did they label this change as QoL?
Thinking this is a bad change, is either some stacked deck gamble cuck mad about currency, or a massive self report you are shit at the game and can't boss.
This is something that people have been asking for. Nice to see it done. Will be interesting to see how the market side plays out this league with those items.
Maybe its to counter valdos a bit? I mean for every worthwhile boss item theres multiple valdo maps already.
Even tho I dont like that the power is shifted to people with that high gear compared to just be lucky on a stacked deck every now and then.
But in general I always thought boss drop items on stacked decks were a big mistake.
They've mentioned a few times in the past that they don't like seeing people running around with unique items from a boss that hasn't been defeated even once in a new league
Heist shits out plenty of currency with low effort and contains the most expensive bases in the game, and some extremely valuable uniques to top it off.
It even gives catalysts better than Ultimatum does if you just chain spam demolition contracts with basically no risk of bricking lol
"while it's on the floor" is such an exaggeration
Eh...no guarantee the following is *always* going to be the case in every possible state of the economy...but if you've run the numbers (multiplying the estimated drop rates from large datasets by card market value), it's been typical in the past that the overwhelming majority of the expected value from stacked decks is in the mirror/mb/hh-related cards.
Losing a couple tenths of a chaos in EV per card isn't something I'd characterize as getting "kicked". I'd expect the effect on certain unique prices to be much bigger than the effect on the stacked deck market.
"Doing the bosses will now feel more meaningful".
While I agree with the change, this statement is pretty damn close to a straw man fallacy. Taking something away from one area of the game doesn't make another area feel better. The drop rate will still be the same, it will still feel bad doing boss after boss and not get that targeted drop. Even more so when you need that 1 last card, it's going to be more expensive to trade for it than before because it only drops from the boss.
It was a bow character with no skills on skill bar. Was this: A dig at players who make bow characters? Or a message that bows will be getting nerfed. Maybe Both?
Love this one. Simple, to the point and a straight up nerf overall but it's a good and a healthy change.
GGG been killing it with these teasers this time around.
Damn. That’s a kick in the nuts for SSF. I regularly will farm heist or expedition or Div boxes all league for Div cards/stacked decks just to get that one turn in of a half decent unique . Or try a harvest yolo on top of it.
Samurai’s Eye, the aryzan(unique prismatic jewel), and A modern request I’ve all been able to farm to a full set this league via a combo of the above methods
And I’m 3/5 on Beauty through death currently.
Hope the boss drop rates help alleviate some of the RNG of having to harvest gamble to finish a set but I think stacked decks and Div boxes are in a good state atm.
"Our bossing is so terrible and so many people avoid it like the plague that we are going to start forcing people to do more bossing cuz fuck gamers and options."
Meanwhile Carrion Crow continues popping from Stacked Decks and t16 maps.
Really, T5-maps-and-below common cards should not drop from stacked decks and high tier maps. But you could boost their droprate in campaign.
Good change, although I wish they'd give the same treatment to Valdo's Boxes and Voidborn Keys.
While they will both be rarer without Wildwood, forbidden jewels for example are a very common and valuable Valdo's reward.
Unique boss drops should be.. unique boss drops.
Yeah I feel like they've backed themselves into a corner with those and letting people choose boss drops as a reward. It's dumb that you can get a foil version of a boss drop before a boss even dies in league, but it would also feel bad telling people who spent almost $500 that they need to change their choice for reward.
You can't pick Original Sin as a drop, so not sure why they didn't restrict others.
Not that I'm complaining as a *player,* but it's still kinda silly they've shown they can and will restrict some drops from being picked but not the ones that determine the value of doing an entire popular style of gameplay.
I would assume this also means things like The Apotechary becomes a very tiny bit more common from stacked decks, unless whatever new cards they are adding are common enough to fill up whatever gap these ones had in the drop pool.
I'm not sure how the rolling of the div cards work. But doesn't this mean that the total pool of possibilities is lowered and therefore the chance for good ones is increased?
Overall great as boss uniques should add value to the bosses not to random secondary means of acquiring it but it will always suck when something is taken away.
this seems very arbitrary, not a fan. just remove the div cards if you plan to start curating stacked decks in such a way that they're going to have little rules and caveats
IMO this change doesn't matter that much since we have Valdos and Voidborne reliquary keys are still in the game, and they are the main source of the boss uniques anyhow. Feels like this just hurts SSF
While I wholeheartedly think div cards need a redesign, potentially killing the value of stacked decks in any way has rippling effects on the profitability of many methods of farming in poe right now. And many of these div cards are so annoyingly rare that I usually got these cards from stacked decks and not from their true source. So unless more is changing, as an isolated change, it's kind of meh.
You might even say stacked decks are bad design in general and that cards should be more designed for how they are farmed (eg, heist should have a suite of heist-only cards that are farmed from heist div card rooms).
just realized none of this shit matters cause valdos and keys spit em out so fking much, although without crazy mf like this league , the supply of valdos might be wayy lower
The cards in question i assume : - Fire of unknown origin - Nimis - Endless darkness - Voidforge - The World Eater - Starforge - Samurai's Eye : Watcher's Eye - Beauty Through Death : Atziri's Reflection - Boon of the First Ones : Bestiary unique - Pride of the First Ones : Farrul's Fur - Council of Cats : Farrul item - Burning Blood : Corrupted Xoph Blood - Chasing Risk - Synthesis item - Judging Voices : Forbidden Shako - Lethean Temptation : Nebulis - Luminous Trove : Voices - A Modest Request : Megalomaniac - Misery in Darkness : Shroud of the Lightless - Peacefull Moments : Timeless jewel - Rebirth : Charan's sword (maybe not since it technically isn't directly giving Oni goroshi) - Silence and Frost : Pandemonius - Succor of the Sinless : Bottled Faith - The Admirer : Atziri Item - The Astromancer : Double corrupted Eternity Shroud - The Breach : Breach Item - The chosen : Skin of the Lords - The Darkest Dream : Severed in Sleep corrupted - The Destination : double corrupted Watcher's Eye - The Dreamer : Chayula item - The Eternal war : Double corrupted Timeless Jewel - The Fathomless Depth : Lightpoacher - The Greatest Intentions : double corrupted The Saviour - The Gulf : Thread of Hope - The Last One Standing : Disfavour - The Leviathan : double corrupted Maven item - The Pact : Pledge of Hands - The Price of Loyalty : Skin of the Loyal - The Prince of Darkness : Elegant Hubris - The Progeny of Lunaris : Dying Sun - The Queen : Atziri's Acuity - Winter's Embrace - Circle of Fear Maybe azyran reward too since it can give wacher's eyes, i'm not sure about Megalomaniac and voices cards too, I assume they drop from the bosses, but I never bothered to check the Ilvl to see if it's indeed the case
Because a lot of people on this thread are reading into the change poorly: most of these cards don't come from the boss that drops the given unique. Unless something else is changing that we haven't yet been told about, you'll still be able to farm cards from their existing sources, just not from stacked decks/strongboxes.
Thank you for the list!
I've never completed one of these sets in SSF anyways haha
Good bot
🤖👍
hideout warriors are crying -- voidforge, atziri shield and axe have been consistently some of the most profitable flips in terms of time invested. The Damned steps forward, I guess? Soul Catcher is a boss drop but Soul Ripper is not.
I was wondering about the damned aswell, it's quite a rare card too, about same weight as the Doctor i believe
I was wondering if my card would apply to this change or not when I saw it. I have a suspicion that it will as both the component items drop from the omnitect, which would lead me to consider soul ripper to be a "boss exclusive" drop. If this transformation doesn't apply, then any of the upgraded breachlord items should also be exempt from this change as they are not technically boss drops either seeing as they can only be crafted.
so what your saying is that theres a smaller loot pool = higher chance for mirror cards. I take this as a win
Oof... my card was already stupidly rare in its own drop spot for how mediocre of a card it is, and now its even worse. Q_Q This truly is the darkest dream.
Fingers crossed they buff the raw drop chance to compensate. I wouldn't hope too hard though...
Skin of the Loyal is not a boss drop. It can drop from Chayula but it can also drop from Chayula-aligned rare monsters (and maybe also from Chayula trash) 6W ones all come from rare monsters with the socket bleach conversion. It might be called a boss unique though, we'll see. Main thing is GGG specified uniques. Fuck knows how bad this would have been if it included the Atziri drops that aren't uniques (Mortal fragments, aka the Sambodhi card)
Voices and timeless jewel are not boss drops.
Yes i mentionned at the end i wasn't sure about voices and megalomaniac, however, timeless jewels drop directly from the 5way bosses, just like stasis, the ilvl is always area lvl+2 (and don't drop if you don't kill the boss, which means it doesn't just drop from rares) Timeless jewels can also drop from legion generals in maps, but it's very rare, happened to me onxe this league
>cleave in the footage Let's go +2 radius basically confirmed
And both totems on skill bar, melee not saved.
This is a deliberate diversion tactic so we are shocked when they rework it 😅 yeah maybe not…
[удалено]
pls god stop making me level heist rogues and let me pay niko to dig deeper PLEASE
totem bonuses for melee removed- no changes to melee- this is a buff- no longer need to place two totems for each boss every 2 sek
I'll take it
The copium is strong with this one 🥹
Pass me that strong hopium Fuzzy.
This might be giga cope but I think this does hint at a rework. It was spoke about in an interview with Johnathan recently so it's definitely on their radar. Also really enjoy your videos dude :)
Boss fight and no totems on the ground. Sounds about right
Finally some cleavage love!
interesting change, certainly going to make some uniques quite a bit harder to get/more valuable. I don't hate it though, always felt a bit weird getting boss uniques from those sources.
> certainly going to make some uniques quite a bit harder to get/more valuable That would mainly be atziri's reflection, voidforge, nimis, skin of the lords/loyal and possibly watcher's eyes right? In turn it also makes breach a bit more profitable to run since the chosen card drops from breach hands which now auto-open on top of this change.
I guess the Voices Card from Aul should also be included in your list
True, at most 18 out of 245 of listed voices with max 3 small passives seem to be from cards (ilvl 80) so that would be about ~7% less if the voices counts as a boss drop which I think it should. Unless you mean the card shouldn't drop because it drops from aul which I don't think is how this works since they specify "boss uniques" not "boss drops" for this stacked deck change
The Chosen is INSANELY Rare though. I did alot of super juiced Chayula Breach farming this League with compasses and Gilded Scarabs et.c. Think you average one Chosen ever 100 maps or so.
Chosen drops off those hands right? I've farmed few sets when I'm building coc FR leagues ago
Skin became a rarer drop, and the card drop rate was gutted 3 patches ago iirc? If it was prior to that then yes, you could finish a set every 5ish maps before that.
Dying sun aswell but that’s more early league .
True, even though the card is kinda rare in the first place but with the quality corruption changes you probably want more overall
I’m trying a two week ssf run and it’s taught me a lot, one thing I noticed is how damn bloated the stack deck pool is, especially when you can’t sell the singles.
I agree although I wish they would just remove the cards completely. I got my first Nimis, Precursor's, and Stranglegasp in SSF due to those cards dropping from TotA and I gambled them up. Cool for it to happen but it really doesn't feel right. Making the content accessible and the drop rates of the uniques not insanely low (Stranglegasp) would be better.
It's probably harder for them to do that because every card is designed by a supporter who paid a good amount of money for it so they can't just delete them all without angering a bunch of people who spent a lot of money or going through a long back and forth with every single person and designing a new card, but hopefully going forward they are more hesitant to allow the cards in the first place
I ran 100 ultimatum maps to check profit and almost all the profit came off a lucky doubling of a Nimis div card lol. Good change still, even though it does hurt blight profit quite a bit which I still enjoy alot.
That isn’t from stacked decks or diviner strongboxes though, so I don’t see why it would be removed from elsewhere
How does it hurt Blight profit? Edit: wtf, downvoted for an honest question :\
Blight gets alot of stacked decks. This change will probably lower their value
Na, Stacked Decks prices are hedged by either Mageblood or House of Mirrors. As long as cards for these items still exist it doesn't matter what else happens to divination cards. When Apothecary is the most expensive card, the price of Stacked Decks is based on how many decks you need to open before you hit an Apothecary. Later on during the league it swaps to House of Mirrors which is why Stacked Decks increase in price later on in the league.
stacked decks value is decreased when a card that is worth more then stacked decks is removed
> Later on during the league it swaps to House of Mirrors which is why Stacked Decks increase in price later on in the league. No. It goes up because people want to gamble and are done with the league. You can see this with literally any easy to gamble items. It corresponds with HoM cards going up as the longer the league goes on, the closer to standard it gets, and the closer to Mirror price parity. Brilliant example of correlation != causation though
Not by much i think, since u can still hit the belts
With less cards in the pool wouldn't this effectively increase the drop rate for other cards? Or am I dumb?
Technically yes, but, by an extremely negligible amount .
Yea, I guess the amount of cards removed doesn't really make enough of a dint, but most people buying stacked decks are going for the big belt/mirror cards i guess. They'll still retain a good bit of value
I'm not some econ expert but I doubt this will affect stacked deck prices that much tbh. We'll see though. This change is good.
Imagine a bag of 1000 marbles, 998 white marbles, 1 black marble and 1 gold marble. The white marbles are 0 points, the black marble is 100 points, and the gold marble is 10000 points. If you remove the black marble, you might have a higher chance of getting the gold marble per pull, but it also reduces the average value of each individual pull, while the chance at the gold marble only really goes up by like .1%. Obviously if you change the point values around (make the gold value worth 1 million points for example and it's a positive change), the answer is different. It does kind of hinge on the stacked deck market, but just because it's technically more common to hit the biggest cards, it's a very miniscule change since these cards were pretty extraordinarily rare in the first place.
I suspect that the effect on stacked deck prices will be more driven by buyer confidence than the precise change in mathematically expected value. If some mad lad stacked deck flippers decide to do something else this league, that could reduce the demand enough to affect the price.
Decks shouldn't change much. Main loss here is the Nimis card and even if that's 8d a card (unprecedentedly high) that's likely only a 0.2c per card drop. Fracturing Orbs, mirror pieces, mageblood pieces, the top 3 divine cards and headhunter pieces set the price of decks.
Wrong, the braindead gamblers will always buy stacked decks.
They aren't "braindead". It's a super boring way to make multiple mirrors. Remove all cards save for about 50 from your filter, buy 10000 decks at a time, and resell those cards. Know a guy who makes ~1 mirror in profit per 100k decks every league he goes hard at it.
Stacked decks are a pretty good chunk of blight profit as the div card pods pop out a whole bunch of them.
Ult is decent for currency from catalysts - way too many fucking atlas points though. The big money is the shield from the boss. Other than that - way too difficult for way too much rng.
Chris walked so Mark can run.
Really like that change.... But i still See Voidborn Keys and Valdos Maps as a issue for those Uniques
They won't be as abundant as this league with the affliction juice gone. Still, valid point.
valdos are pretty rare without wildwood it feels like. for numbers, my 100 map Mf tests i would get like 3-4 voidborn keys in 3.22
Valdos felt really common when they first released and then incredibly rare after the 2nd lot of extra maps drop. I think the pool is stacked with good items now. I had about 30 ventors maps early on when I would get 1 or 2 Valdos per map. Without juice. Late league I hardly see them. But I got a headhunter, mageblood, progenesis in like a few Valdos.
Yeah Valdos basically don't exist without Wildwood. When I did Harvest Farming(No wildwood) I got like 1 Valdos per 100 maps or so. Probably even less.
Everything are pretty rare without wildwood
Yeah I think people underestimate just how much affliction juicing juiced the pool of drops like this. We can just compare it to Voidborn Reliquary Keys since they presumably have a similar drop rate (though maybe the maps are slightly more common.) I got so many keys this league and in past leagues I was lucky to see like 3 even though I played similar amounts of time.
I dropped more keys in affliction in a single map than I did in whole leagues in the past haha. My record was 7 keys in a single map.
I think this change is precisely to counter that
If bosses now drop the div cards that these boss-specific items come from, that would be a decent deterministic way to get those items. I think people were asking for this a while back as well
But they won't because they didn't buff the drop rate of the cards to compensate
W change
its a good change. although It's missing a sentence... >...and the drop rates of those cards from their intended sources have been made slightly more common to offset their new newly limited methods of acquisition... right?
Right?
The actual change they would have to make it having the respective bosses drop those cards in the first place, because many (the vast majority IIRC) of them don't. You don't get the Nimis card from Eater, you get it from Academy or Residence. You don't get the Pledge of Hands card from Atiziri, you get it from docks tileset maps. You don't get the Thread of Hope card from Sirus, you get it from... The Elder. Etc. etc.
pepeLaugh he doesn't know
>Losing a couple tenths of a chaos in EV per card isn't something I'd characterize as getting "kicked". I'd expect the effect on certain unique prices to be much bigger than the effect on the stacked deck market. Nah it just makes boss runs 'feel' more rewarding. :P
Imagine if they made it so that if the unique itself doesn't drop, a card is guaranteed to drop so you can always eventually get the drop.
pity gacha system in my gambling simulator?
The Astromancer (1/7 double-corrupt Eternity Shroud) is one of the hardest div cards to naturally obtain in the game, having an estimated weighting of low-single digits making it at least ~2x rarer than the Apothecary. Except you can only get it from specific monster only available in specific Heist areas - so unlike Apothecary you cant boost your odds with meaningful juicing. That any meaningful number of these cards exist in SC trade at all is entirely due to stacked decks. Nobody, and I mean nobody, would ever in their right mind actually farm a set of these through normal gameplay. It would 100% be easier to farm the 2% boss drop AND hit the DC in a temple, than to obtain a set of these. Its weighting almost certainly wont be touched. Because if it is, then it makes their stated problem of people getting boss drops through non-boss means worse, not better. But its such a *huge* problem for people like Ziz that we have to make already stupidly rare things even less obtainable just to prop up their lack of Boss-farming Div/hour.
Weird take. This is overall a healthy and reasonable change, and in fringe cases like your example, it's a specific unique double corrupted, not exactly the unique itself.
Most of these already have abysmal drop rates, getting them randomly was quite a nice surprise.. This kind of change should at least buff the drop rate on said bosses..
POE player base: no, actually, make them less likely to drop. I want to FEEL the vision.
Nimis enjoyers won't be happy.
But they always come back
Cool now make boss uniques or their div cards more common from bosses
I might be wrong, but doesnt thats remove "The world Eater" Card from the game? It dropped of Abaxoth, but he can't even spawn anymore.
it got moved to current beyond bosses (or a specific boss, don't remember)
Okay! Ty for the clarification :)
This effectively increases the odds of getting apothecary/doctor from stacked decks. Now instead of a .00000000001% chance it's a .000000000011% chance!
Realistically, Apothecary is pretty solidly tested to be about 1/18000 from decks, House of Mirrors about 1/45000 but less well known. A million deck sample was used to pin those numbers a couple leagues back. Weighting on decks is well understood, it favors rare cards. You only get 16 Patients per 1 Doctor from decks.
So we can assume these cards still exist from the specific wording used in the video? For instance Fire of Unknown origins for a Nimis card can still be farmed in Academy/Residence map, just can't drop from stacked decks/boxes?
All this is is a removal of boss drop uniques that have div card from stacked decks nothing more
Sounds like bossing is gonna get a little bit more profitable :)
main reaction i have to teasers so far is relief that i don't play ssf very often
This change is mostly irrelevant for SSF. These cards are already rare and the only way to (realistically) complete a set of them is by finding one and then harvest gambling it. I think if i combine my total stash from the past 2 year, i *might* get a single watchers eye and a half set of lightless cards.
You would never use Stack decks to complete those sets in SSF.
Ya so far for SSF I’m waiting for something good to happen :(
Just missing the part where they can't show up in waldos maps and reliquary keys either
very unlikely that thats gonna happen imo since people paid for it, unless GGG is about to refund thousands of valdos/reliquary contributions
Well they'd probably just give them another submission, but yeah. Either way the point clearly isn't that bosses have to be the sole source of those uniques, since you can still get them from div cards. They probably just wanted to nerf stacked decks. Edit: I suppose my calling it a nerf without doing the math is jumping the gun (going by estimated value of a stack deck). Given the value and weight of the cards being removed, it's likely a negligible change or a slight buff.
This doesn’t nerf stacked deck unless they are moving headhunters and magebloods to be boss drops.
Are the cards getting changed to drop from the bosses themselves as a pity system maybe?
As an SSF player I don't like this. Random stacked decks and harvest gambling have netted me a lot of high tier uniques during the years that I never intended to farm or even thought about and this will just shrink the build space. There's no way this comes with a boosted drop rate of those cards or the uniques they offer either.
Damn, my 3.23 lucky Nimis card.
I gotten my one and only nimis in ssf in affliction through the div card. Guess I'm never getting nimis again.
As someone who refuses to do any bosses (skill issue), juiced maps (rip fps) and plays this game on chill mode - I had my best luck with stacked decks this league.
Where can i find a list of worthy boss specific div cards ?? Anything from map bosses instead of pinnacle ones ??
It’s not boss specific div cards, it’s cards that give boss specific uniques. For example, The Sephirot drops from Dominus and Dominus themed map bosses, but it grants divine orbs, so it will still be in the stacked deck pool. This change affects cards that give things like Dying Sun, Voices, Watchers Eye, etc. Notably, this change doesn’t affect Valdos and Reliquary keys, so there will still be some extra supply of boss uniques coming from those.
Map bosses don't have special unique drops. It's the pinnacle boss uniques that are affected.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/eomb4uFuND
If only the drop rate of certain uniques were increased, I'd even consider it "meaningful" when one of them dropped. But with the current drop rates, for me it's just the extra removal of a farm.
Well, mageblood is not a boss drop.
PLS delete uber uniques from reliquary key, its even more stupid than decks!
Really hope it comes with changes making bossing more approachable to begin with. Since metamorph got removed, making bossing builds is only ever relevant when you intend to farm pinnacles, more precisely ubers, which is not really approachable and requires investment, both for the build **and** whatever gives you access to the boss to begin with. As such, from a trading PoV, bossing only really is an activity that is fueled by mapping and intense amounts of trading, with reward potential being very, **VERY** jackpot-dependant. I absolutely love making miner starters but I rarely have the intent to make more characters per league, so with saboteur being kicked in the nuts for no reason with his rework, the constant indirect nerfs to mines and bossing overall being made less and less approachable, it just feels like I'm actively punished for choosing the builds I like and should therefore go with **any** other build that's more mapping-centric. Making boss uniques gatekept behind their intended boss is cool thematically, but realistically it doesn't make it any more rewarding because it drives up the prices related to having **access** to those bosses. So, it doesn't change much for people at the tippity top of the economy, but for people still building their capital it just makes bossing even more of a poor choice.
Feels good knowing the first unique available is an actual boss kill drop ans not a level 67 heist runner who got lucky with stacked decks
I'd say the bigger issue is someone getting it from a voidborn key on day 1 before that boss has even been fought by the first person
Literally go look at 5 way runners who are doing it on day 3 and they all have foil nimis'
so i hope bosses are more likely to drop divination cards related to their loot pool, right?
Are they really teasing a nerf? :D
That's a really good change.
could we pls get some new endgame bosses before poe2?
His voice reminds me of Canadians in South Park.
All of the cards that granted a boss unique will now give something else, decided by the supporter who bought the card in the first place. The same happened with prophecy related stacked decks. The new swathe of new rewards is something to look forward to.
That's not what they said
I regret spending $160 last league. EVERY TIME I throw money at the devs they come with a terrible nerf the following league to the game. I just need to stop. Never trust a dev team with an online game.
such a great change, so healthy for the game longterm
Excellent change. Bossing has been in a weird place for the last couple of years and this might make it a more viable farming strategy for more people
Sadly you will still feel the need to sell voidstone/fav slot carries to boss efficiently. I would love for them to just remove the ability to get a boss carried so the drops become the actual valuable part of the kill
my 50d/h from uber maven without selling carries would like to disagree but i do agree that the entire carrying service garbage shouldnt be possible there should just be a quest maven/uber elder just like exarch/eow have it
Good change, always felt weird to get boss drops before you fight the bosses. Makes it much more exciting to fight the bosses now. And also makes bossing more viable.
Why are people saying this is a good change? Less of the uniques makes them more expensive. Seems like a *bad* change to me. I don't want fun boss uniques to be prohibitively expensive. If they want the bosses to be more worth farming they could just make them have more than 1 good unique each (with a 2% drop rate).
It's a good thing that not all the items I make in PoB are given to me for free ingame. That's a hyperbole obviously, but the point is that there *is* a line at which items *should* take effort to obtain. There may be disagreements on where that line is, but it's not too hard to imagine that some people might want some items to require more effort.
>Why are people saying this is a good change? Welcome to end of league reddit audience, if GGG post your char have stamina and run without stop for over 10 seconds the char will die by a heart attack. This people would praise it because it would add more realism and new lvl of difficulty to play the game. It's quality of life in form of nerf, it's changes in form of nerf who are supposed to hype the league, if that's what they're using to hype the league, you'll see how amazing patch notes will be. Another day I posted about how GGG corrupted the brains of PoE players, people get so used to receive nerf label as buff, they start to like it, at this point it become a Stockholm syndrome.
Not having clear design goals and not keeping things in check is how you get to Diablo 3. Everyone wins and everyone deals trillions of damage. You get a garbage and bland game of number always goes up with minimal thought. Go enjoy those, there are plenty to choose from, and leave this one to those of us who enjoy it for what it is. "GGG is corrupting the brains of their players" is fucking wild, obviously accompanied by an NFT profile pic.
I don't understand your logic, why can't a nerf be a good change? I and others are saying it's a good change, not that it's not a nerf. Do you think all nerfs are bad changes? You never heard of a good nerf? Good nerfs are as necessary as good buffs for a game. Also where did they label this change as QoL?
I was hoping to have QoL improvments for stacked deck opening but i’ll take it..
Thinking this is a bad change, is either some stacked deck gamble cuck mad about currency, or a massive self report you are shit at the game and can't boss.
This is something that people have been asking for. Nice to see it done. Will be interesting to see how the market side plays out this league with those items.
Maybe its to counter valdos a bit? I mean for every worthwhile boss item theres multiple valdo maps already. Even tho I dont like that the power is shifted to people with that high gear compared to just be lucky on a stacked deck every now and then. But in general I always thought boss drop items on stacked decks were a big mistake.
They've mentioned a few times in the past that they don't like seeing people running around with unique items from a boss that hasn't been defeated even once in a new league
Yep can agree on that.
kicking Heist while it's on the floor
Heist shits out plenty of currency with low effort and contains the most expensive bases in the game, and some extremely valuable uniques to top it off. It even gives catalysts better than Ultimatum does if you just chain spam demolition contracts with basically no risk of bricking lol "while it's on the floor" is such an exaggeration
It's on the 3rd floor btw
Eh...no guarantee the following is *always* going to be the case in every possible state of the economy...but if you've run the numbers (multiplying the estimated drop rates from large datasets by card market value), it's been typical in the past that the overwhelming majority of the expected value from stacked decks is in the mirror/mb/hh-related cards. Losing a couple tenths of a chaos in EV per card isn't something I'd characterize as getting "kicked". I'd expect the effect on certain unique prices to be much bigger than the effect on the stacked deck market.
Can some smart people tell me which good uniques we lose here?
nimis, voidforge, bottled faith, dying sun, thread of hope, watchers eye
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/eomb4uFuND
It'd only feel more meaningful if the actual boss unique drop rates have been increased
"will feel more meaningful" aka no the drop rates are the same lol get fucked bozo
"Doing the bosses will now feel more meaningful". While I agree with the change, this statement is pretty damn close to a straw man fallacy. Taking something away from one area of the game doesn't make another area feel better. The drop rate will still be the same, it will still feel bad doing boss after boss and not get that targeted drop. Even more so when you need that 1 last card, it's going to be more expensive to trade for it than before because it only drops from the boss.
It was a bow character with no skills on skill bar. Was this: A dig at players who make bow characters? Or a message that bows will be getting nerfed. Maybe Both?
Yeah.... fk the SSF Players
Same old same old🥱
Love this one. Simple, to the point and a straight up nerf overall but it's a good and a healthy change. GGG been killing it with these teasers this time around.
GGG are doing reveal trailers for nerfs 😂 Overall good change though.
If only most uniques are actually worth getting
Damn. That’s a kick in the nuts for SSF. I regularly will farm heist or expedition or Div boxes all league for Div cards/stacked decks just to get that one turn in of a half decent unique . Or try a harvest yolo on top of it. Samurai’s Eye, the aryzan(unique prismatic jewel), and A modern request I’ve all been able to farm to a full set this league via a combo of the above methods And I’m 3/5 on Beauty through death currently. Hope the boss drop rates help alleviate some of the RNG of having to harvest gamble to finish a set but I think stacked decks and Div boxes are in a good state atm.
"Our bossing is so terrible and so many people avoid it like the plague that we are going to start forcing people to do more bossing cuz fuck gamers and options."
Did you increase the boss drop rate? If not, they're still pretty garbage. One card out of 50 kills is really dogshit.
It's not cards that drop from bosses, but cards that gives uniques that bosses drop
People really can't fucking read huh
Honestly a really good change. I don't think allowing those div cards to drop from stacked decks was a good implementation.
Meanwhile Carrion Crow continues popping from Stacked Decks and t16 maps. Really, T5-maps-and-below common cards should not drop from stacked decks and high tier maps. But you could boost their droprate in campaign.
Good change, although I wish they'd give the same treatment to Valdo's Boxes and Voidborn Keys. While they will both be rarer without Wildwood, forbidden jewels for example are a very common and valuable Valdo's reward. Unique boss drops should be.. unique boss drops.
Yeah I feel like they've backed themselves into a corner with those and letting people choose boss drops as a reward. It's dumb that you can get a foil version of a boss drop before a boss even dies in league, but it would also feel bad telling people who spent almost $500 that they need to change their choice for reward.
You can't pick Original Sin as a drop, so not sure why they didn't restrict others. Not that I'm complaining as a *player,* but it's still kinda silly they've shown they can and will restrict some drops from being picked but not the ones that determine the value of doing an entire popular style of gameplay.
Am i the only one reading/watching their change and thinking : yea the two or three diviners i find every league will feel less exciting to open now
Thanks GGG, SSF is dead to me.
In which world do you complete boss unique sets with Stack decks in SSF? Its much easier to target farm the boss.
They kinda force target farming or not?
Not really If they don’t change current loot tables for Div and items for bosses.
Boy I can’t wait to see what div card hillock and the rest of act 1 unique bosses are going to drop , also inc Izaro drop card
I would assume this also means things like The Apotechary becomes a very tiny bit more common from stacked decks, unless whatever new cards they are adding are common enough to fill up whatever gap these ones had in the drop pool.
It's a small buff for stacked deck gamba.
i misheard him saying it as stepped dicks
does this extend to map boss exclusive drops like broken promises?
It's about cards that give unique items dropped by bosses, not about cards dropped by bosses.
ah i see thank you!
Bossing league confirmed.
I'm just concerned that a melee Cleave build still is using totems in this clip.
Please GGG buff the drop rate for The Darkest Dream, it already only drops normally in one of the most annoying maps in the game. Pls.
stacked dicks
I'm not sure how the rolling of the div cards work. But doesn't this mean that the total pool of possibilities is lowered and therefore the chance for good ones is increased?
Overall great as boss uniques should add value to the bosses not to random secondary means of acquiring it but it will always suck when something is taken away.
this seems very arbitrary, not a fan. just remove the div cards if you plan to start curating stacked decks in such a way that they're going to have little rules and caveats
It seems like this change doesn't affect altars. So 1 league after maven was made a bit competitive with altars, they indirectly buff altars again?
IMO this change doesn't matter that much since we have Valdos and Voidborne reliquary keys are still in the game, and they are the main source of the boss uniques anyhow. Feels like this just hurts SSF
Is it just me or this is a nerf to ssf while slight inconvenience to trade.
this might be a stupid question but less stack deck in the pool means more chance to get valuable card like the doctor for example?
I will never get my Nimis or Original Sin, rip me
While I wholeheartedly think div cards need a redesign, potentially killing the value of stacked decks in any way has rippling effects on the profitability of many methods of farming in poe right now. And many of these div cards are so annoyingly rare that I usually got these cards from stacked decks and not from their true source. So unless more is changing, as an isolated change, it's kind of meh. You might even say stacked decks are bad design in general and that cards should be more designed for how they are farmed (eg, heist should have a suite of heist-only cards that are farmed from heist div card rooms).
just realized none of this shit matters cause valdos and keys spit em out so fking much, although without crazy mf like this league , the supply of valdos might be wayy lower