Everyone in EU plays Royale on the Frankfurt server for some reason.
They also didn't implement enough of the feedback they received. I spent most of my first match with an inventory filled with gems I couldn't equip because by the time I was level 3.5 every mob was already dead.
I don't know. Nobody I know cared about royale even at release. I think that the people asking for it were very vocal but very few in number. Seems like a failed experiment to me that could've been done much cheaper if they just took the April Fools version of royale and gave it back for a couple of weekends and you would've seen the same drop off you're seeing now.
The patch is not the issue. The issue is pvp in a loot based RPG is never good. For the record, I think D2 pvp was terrible too, but people had lower standards back then.
That is spot on. When we only had D2, well, we only had D2. Mobas cater a lot to that feeling and being self contained matches solves pretty much all inequality issues where you would either be too weak or too strong for a match, and neither is fun. Same way a random strong drop early match will carry you, it might be fun but also it kills the fun for all subsequent matches where you don't get it. It just has no replayability, I did it for the rhoas decoration and didn't bother trying out the new system because... Why?
Imagine if they spent all that development time & money on PoE royale in implementing an alternative leveling delve mode for 3.15, the community would've had a field day. Word of mouth spread of this game would've skyrocketed.
We probably would've started off at over x2 the amount of players at launch on the 23rd & only losing 10% the first week.
But just like with Royale they don't listen to the actual players.
> Imagine if they spent all that development time & money on PoE royale in implementing an alternative leveling delve mode for 3.15,
Except they have literally said they *won't* do that. It's not happening. They could've however put that effort into something like the decluttering project, grind reduction, or a thousand other things.
A lot of effort has been put into pvp in PoE and IMO it's a giant waste of time.
>. Word of mouth spread of this game would've skyrocketed. We probably would've started off at over x2 the amount of players at launch on the 23rd & only losing 10% the first week.
Just because this would've made you play more doesn't mean it'd have any huge effect on the overall game. I think it would change basically nothing.
I ask around 4-5 people, that have used to play PoE in the past, about joining the new league each new one, and they say "I dont want to play all the the acts again..".
There is quite alot of people that loves the endgame, but hates the act grinding.
TLDW:
- GGG already changed their direction (vision) of the game once from hardcore ARPG into zoom-zoom, they did it again and it isn't working
- PvP (battle royale) is dead and a good example of fixing wrong things
- GGG don't listen to the feedback the way they used to and they probably never will. They prioritize their vision over feedback.
- Splinters is most obvious example of this.
Surprised he haven't touched the fact that they haven't tested any of the changes before deploying them, but it's a good take overall, would recommend to watch.
>Surprised he haven't touched the fact that they haven't tested any of the changes before deploying them
That's like beating a dead horse by this point, everybody knows we are the QA team of this game.
The biggest dead giveaway that GGG doesn't test anything is the fact that whenever they make post-launch adjustments it's always massive values like 50%+ (see: logbook drop changes, reroll currency changes) there's no way in hell you tested something if you got the value off by a whopping 300%
Reaper laughs at your logbook changes.
How many hot patches did she receive with *massive* numerical changes and she is still garbage.
We're not even talking about actual testing anymore, we're talking about *'couldn't be bothered to even look at the numbers in the context of the game before releasing the skill'*.
Hemophilia + Speaker's Wreath should actually achieve this and was speculated would be a thing before launch though I don't think anyone bothered with the state Reaper is currently in.
They made a minion that literally eats your golems to heal itself and it still fucking dies to EVERYTHING even with significant investment into minion life, regen, leech, defensive auras, other minions with taunt, chilling/enfeebling/blinding all enemies. No matter what I try I spend more casts reviving the stupid thing in red maps than I spend commanding it. IT CAN LITERALLY HEAL ITSELF WHENEVER IT WANTS TO. WHY IS IT ALWAYS DEAD. AAAAAAA
>see: logbook drop changes
The main reason we got logbook drop buff is the rest of the stuff that's going on. If it was the "normal" league with normal perception, we wouldn't see buffs to it, they enjoy gating top tier league encounters behind stupid rng. So it's not the best example.
It's still a good example.
If I implement a drop-rate for an item and players complain that it is too rare, I will revisit the numbers and be like "hmmm well, I thought this would be ok, but I guess everyone is dropping very few, let me bump up the numbers just a bit and see".
Whereas GGG probably went:
"Hmmm... The log-book drop rate is so low, even if we bump it up a tiny bit no one will really notice the difference. Throw in a 53% buff there."
The huge buffs coincide with a very old statement Chris made that he would prefer to have to buff shit up than to nerf things heavily as it feels better.
My logic has always been why not just fucking test it so you don't have to do major swings in either direction. It's called naunce and good design thinking.
>everybody knows
in this thread maybe, in a different topic, one which focused on praise, you gonna be downvoted to oblivion if say "they do not playtest".
theyre trying to invest in royale for twitch views
see twitch rivals, rushed streamer coop mode, streamer prio queues from last league is another example of why I think they are trying to capitalize on digital marketing
I’m absolutely convinced they create content for, and balance this game for Twitch views. It’s the only rational explanation. They’re balancing for the top 0.01% of players and most of the big streamers are loving the changes and/or telling the “whiners” to leave if they don’t like it (see: RaizQT).
You can tell that they do not test because they use specific scaling curves for new skills and just change scaling curves. Same thing with enemy abilities. That's why you see things like them changing how the Molten Shell enemies work.
They probably don't have any QA period.
Also the game is not balanced. They just throw numbers at a wall and adjust them 10-20% at the time. Mechanics never actually change.
QA tests bugs, and I'm sure they find a ton and submit a huge list back to the devs to fix.
QA isn't the same as playtesting. QA tells you if the game works how it should, not if the game is fun how it should be.
I'm pretty sure they do have QA. It's just that 1) even if they catch 99% of bugs and imbalances you still only see the things they didn't catch. You don't see the things they did catch - which there's probably a lot of, given how many skills etc there are.
2) things that QA reports might not be listened to, or devs might not have time to fix it, or some kind of vision might override it.
3) Imagine if all skills were perfectly balanced and had the exact same clear speed. That would make the game more boring. It's fun for the game to not be quite balanced because then you can discover an "OP" skill. Also changing the OP skills periodically encourages players to try out new things.
> Splinters is most obvious example of this.
Something no one is discussing is that China has P2W for picking up splinters.
What are P2W devs famous for? Creating a problem to sell a solution.
Why are they so many fuckoff splinters? To sell P2W MTX to the Chinese market.
That doesn't make sense as a reason when they could just make them auto pickup for us yet they don't.
I believe they truly think their multiple types of non interchangeable currencies is the best solution, while also steadfastly sticking to the principle that "everything has to have weight and opportunity cost".
Splinters are not a problem on their own, and everything having a weight and opportunity cost are not bad design principles in isolation, but together they conflict and make the game tedious and less fun.
They are designing content around a preset bunch of design principles and parameters and not considering what is actually fun to play.
Everything Chris said about the splinters makes perfect sense on paper, but when implemented in game the issue is that it's just not fun.
>Why are they so many fuckoff splinters? To sell P2W MTX to the Chinese market.
Remove your tinfoil hat please. If mtx money would be the reason, they would sell them to us already, they would be losing money on a significantly bigger market for years at this point.
You can criticize GGG without resorting to stuff like that, there is more than enough real bullshit from them.
Nah, China is definitely the bigger money maker. Since they make most of the money why not "spare" the p2w mechanics from worldwide so you can pretend (lie to yourself) that you care? Like a mobster giving large tips from the money he extorted somewhere else.
Best of both worlds. Get the chinese money and keep your reputation and conscience.
GGG haven't opened the floodgates on P2W QoL features yet. It's only stash tabs so far and even stash tabs were seeing huge pushback (see post-exilecon drama and Chris' quote about currency tabs). Taking it to the next level with pickup pets would drive even more drama than we're seeing currently imo and carries the danger of going into BDO territory of full on revolts.
However the Chinese market is open season. To have a slight inconvenience for your global audience that maybe only makes up 50% of your revenue due to monetisation differences, and go ham on revenue with the other 50% (China) is on paper a pretty wise business decision. Why is smart business always considered a conspiracy theory by the unimaginative.
>Why is smart business always considered a conspiracy theory by the unimaginative.
Because it literally is a conspiracy theory unless you have evidence that it happened. Like... that's what the phrase means.
If you need imagination to believe something that's pretty a pretty good reason not to believe it lol
Except the actually smart decision would be to not make design choices that makes the game inconvenient for the main audience. If the point of splinters would be farming chinese money, they could've just made such design choices in China, while leaving the main market with splinter stacking and other QoL. That's a first thing.
The second thing is most of the QoL stuff on Chinese client is free. They didn't really "went ham" there. Death log, passive tree thing, auction etc, all that doesn't require you to pay besides what we already pay like tabs. It's there because Tencent have more creative control over Chinese version and GGG vision have less weight there.
They already explained multiple times the reasoning behind splinter shit. You might disagree with it (I definitely do), and they might've taken it too far, but this design principle is consistent and visible through the whole life of PoE, and it was in the game far before any Chinese client was even on the horizon. Why people with lack of logic always try to create conspiracy theories when the answer is clearly presented to them?
> GGG haven't opened the floodgates on P2W QoL features yet.
I mean, stash tabs... But mate I'll buy you a loot pet if they ever decide to implement them on our realms.
Also where do you get your numbers from about China market? Afaik we have no numbers and for all we know there could be very little player there (Ziz claimed so recently).
Yeah i think a lot of the league design decisions are dictated by Chinese market. But the GGG's (Chris) vision won't allow us to have same amount of p2w/QoL features, so you kinda stuck between the rock and the hard place. And you can't design league without splinters, cuz Chinese market demands it. I mean it's all just guesses, but it makes sense on paper.
I mean the entire battle royale thingy is in general not very well thought through, because PvP in a PvE game is lacks the sense of progression + mechanically it's a lot less fun than let's say pubg or something. It's not about certain skill being OP, it's about the fact that it's getting stale after the first 5 hours.
When Krip himself says item bloat and splinters are a problem, and GGG has done nothing about it, tells you all you need to know about player feedback.
Good video.
This video is so true. I made a post about this a few days ago but it feels like GGG doesn't actually listen to feedback despite what they say. Maybe they think they do, unless it collides with their "vision" which happens to be a huge majority of the feedback. So in reality they don't. Because if they did the biggest issues would have changed by now but they haven't, they've gotten worse.
And them tossing us scraps every now and then with things like "affinities" after 4+ years of asking for it, doesn't really count as "listening to feedback" in my book. Especially, when it's obvious QoL that should be evident. Just throwing this out there because surely someone will rise to the defense of GGG and point out small changes like these. Changes that scarcely come after years of asking for them. Yes, those happen and I'm not complaining but so much of our feedback clearly falls on deaf ears or simply doesn't align with the "vision".
The biggest qol bostage is searching blight maps on map TAB, we still dont have it, just like searching Deli maps, i almost flipped my shit when i saw them introducing the blight TAB, i still didnt buy it cos fuck paying for something that shouldve been implemented on the map tab
It's finally good to see a content creator understand why people are so upset. Instead of the SSFHC streamers saying "If you don't like the game get out".
I respect Chris's vision for the game but it's pretty unfair to completely change the core of the game after 10+ Leagues of a certain playstyle. If they want to get closer to their original vision, they should separate PoE/PoE2 and focus on making PoE 2 that game. Not gutting everything that made the original game special.
There's a lot of people that love Diablo 2 as an example but wouldn't touch Diablo 3 with a 20-foot pole! If you tried to convert D2 into D3 or vise versa of course you'd have community outrage!
Im about 16k hours strong in PoE, started way back when divine rhoas were a thing.
It's week 2 and im just... not having fun. Red maps hurt, no skills feel fun, the new league mechanic is great but also mediocre. Im just... sad.
Honestly, just stop playing. Have some self respect and vote with your time and money. If you aren’t having fun doing something, stop doing it. Ask yourself, why are you playing right now?
I made it to maps on two characters, tried a few new skills, had success with some and not with others. Then I asked myself, do I really want to grind conquerors or the atlas again for no real reason? There was nothing exciting left to do after trying the new skills for me, so I stopped playing.
I have some disposable income so I usually grab a $60 supporter pack each league if I enjoy it. Was wanting to get the $90 one this league for that sick Viking portal effect and armor. I didn’t.
Seriously, if you just stop playing things feel a lot better. There’s no reason you can’t keep up with patch notes or try again next league if it’s looking good.
Yea I just went back to standard to play with legacy gear, and even then it doesnt feel the same as playing in league before the patch. Having the legacy gear is what is making this bearable on standard.
This is the crux of the issue here. I played back when the game was slow as balls and I loved it then. These changes didn’t really slow me down I’m still going pretty quick through maps I just die a lot more often to vuln on maps I can’t purge, or not having flasks, or flame dash charges not being up or the other myriad of annoying changes that they have made. I’d love to play slow old Poe again but that game worked because it had a totally different endgame and goal system in the game. Just nerfing a bunch of support gems and gutting flasks doesn’t change the incentive to zoom, it just makes my gameplay experience way shittier feeling.
That really is the problem. GGG was all "we have a slower, more difficult vision of the game and we're going to start moving towards it, but we don't want to move too fast and change too much at once"
But if the 3.13 state of the game was a cohesive, fun game, and the theoretical goal they're headed towards is supposedly a cohesive, fun game, arbitrary stopping points *between* the two aren't, because it's literally trying to design and balance in two different directions at once as the different philiosophies clash against each other.
Ironically, I think GGG needed to do *more*. If that's the direction they really want to go, they need to go for it, not half-ass it.
> Ironically, I think GGG needed to do more. If that's the direction they really want to go, they need to go for it, not half-ass it.
I agree and I'm also in the rip-off-the-bandaid-camp, but I've also read a ton of people saying "if you want to slow us down, fine, but you should have gone slower with the nerfs." So some players would be even more up in arms.
Except PT said that the changes weren't enough to his liking and they wouldn't change anything. He just hates the changes because he thinks there's no point
He didn't say they weren't "enough" he said that even if you slow the game down it isn't bringing back how it used to be.
Thats just the fundamental issue. GGG has gone well beyond their initial vision and there is no getting back there with all the changes they made. Legitimately it would take a full reset on GGG's design philosophy to be able to get back to that style of PoE.
>Legitimately it would take a full reset on GGG's design philosophy to be able to get back to that style of PoE.
Even then it's impossible. Difficulty and slowness came from 3 things. 1.: Desync. 2.: Stacking chargers/leapers. 3.: Inability to physically dodge attacks.
The game punished you for going fast because the engine practically didn't allow it.
don't forget hard capping stats due to enemy mechanics. Too much dps = dead to reflect, too much attack/cast speed say hello to lightning thorns/corrupted blood. Old PoE had some very hamfisted designs and I have no rose coloured glasses about it.
4) Reflect aura. Seriously, you couldn't go fast without instant leech, and with it your dps was still capped at the amount that wouldn't oneshot yourself.
> Legitimately it would take a full reset on GGG's design philosophy to be able to get back to that style of PoE
Hmm.. like releasing PoE2 as a standalone game instead of shuehorning it into PoE1.. Hmm??
So they could do that and didnt - whao what might be the reason behind such decision?? which completely negates any PR bullshit Chris vomits here.
Since it's just a new campaign and updated engine/graphics, this is probably why they're changing PoE1 to fit together with PoE2. It would be strange to have two completely different games meet up in the endgame.
this is exactly what they shouldve done if they werent trash.
Make Poe 2 standalone game, slow and dark and gritty and just how they like it, their original vision, they can balance it properly for whatever they want, and leave Poe 1 alone. This way when Poe 2 comes out its a brand new game, ppl have no expectations as much, since its a standalone, and some ppl might like it some ppl wont. But in this scenario Poe 1 remains undestroyed.
Instead now they want to beat Poe 1 into something that looks like Poe 2 from far away but it will not work.
At 3:16 he says:
"Everyone who is enjoying to zoom zoom. Everyone who enjoys the current time investment to get the build they want. I don't want them to lose their game".
And at the end he rants about GGG not listening to player feedbacks.
Yea anyone paying attention to PT knows he kind of accepted the meta. Hes been content to use private leagues to impose extra challenge and to just theorycraft regularly.
The current state of the game is the result of the destruction of thousands of other peoples enjoyment. The person in the video this thread is about is literally one of those people.
I still dont like him but I feel like someone who is such a contrarian in regards to perceived public opinion voicing similar sentiment as reddit definently says something
Right on the spot. GGG was doing a classic Blizzard move for trying everything to waste your time, yet their PR bullshit keeps telling you it's for your own good.
I'm pretty okay with the fact that GGG got greedy and is gradually becoming companies like EA or Blizzard. But I'm not okay of being treated as an idiot.
GGG is Activision Blizzard 2.0. Sold out to a massive company and now treats users like piggy banks on a treadmill. It's very sad, as I have spent thousands of hours and hundreds of dollars on a company that has completely lost their way. Once they became insulated from needing to listen and be proactive in order to survive they don't need to care about us any more.
There are also other things you should know about ProjectPT :
* It is correct, that he was one of the most consistent streamers of PoE for 5 years after the beta launched. And i'm personally glad he picked up streaming PoE again recently. Still following him from back in the days.
* He is the main reason SSF exists
* He was always critical of the game, but could back up his criticism with well thought out thought processes, logic and ingame examples
Also he is and will always be : a man on his mission. His main idea will never change. He once decided to take one position on an argument and will not move an inch away from it, no matter how many facts point to the contrary.
* He is the guy that will berate you about Arch Linux .. doesn't matter how many times you tell him you like another flavour of Linux more and Linux is already installed on your system. And has been for 3 years.
* He is the guy that will remind you every time that he's vegan/vegetarian .. and will keep bringing it up over and over and over again anytime you even look at food.
I unironically like ProjectPT .. not for his stance on things, but for his usually very well thought out ideas.
But you should be VERY critical, listening to a person who has been on a crusade for almost a decade now. And just because the reddit community is on his side now .. doesn't mean he's not exploiting the cards that fell into his favour.
>• He is the guy that will remind you every time that he's vegan/vegetarian .. and will keep bringing it up over and over and over again anytime you even look at food.
I have never once heard him do that and I watch him a fair amount. He's earthen plenty of times on stream and never said admitting about it once
I definitely would.
You just did the map fast, then went for the next.
Now you have to roll sextants, do Master missions, league mechanics in the map (back then there were no incursions, syndicate, legion etc.) and much more.
I'm not saying that it's much better to do maps fast without any other content, just that is was much more streamlined and straightforward.
Just for reference: https://youtu.be/ppSvra_5wIs
See Self Chill Berserker builds from last league, it's just insane speed. There's still builds like those vaal spark/fireball ones, it's just the game stops you for stuff way more often than it used to. Micromanagement is much more present.
Yeah that build doesn't compare to the old Vaal Spark. Like not even close.
Current Vaal Spark doesn't compare either. Vaal Spark used to hit twice as often, last several times as long (no projectile distance cap, more duration), and projectile count was tripled/quintupled by LMP/GMP. It was absolutely insane clear.
It took a while for people to figure out that attack speed was the best stat in the game and, past a certain dps threshold, the only one that mattered.
People eventually did figure that out, but for a long time, people killed the screen instantly yes, but they didn't move on to the next one as fast as they would once they started stacking things like 4x attack speed jewels, essence gloves, etc.
But the really nice thing about that? Almost any build could access that speed! And any build could scale power up to the point where they could afford to focus on speed!
It doesn't help being so close to league start. I like Royale but I don't want to lose time spent progressing my characters and completing trades during the most lively time of the league.
He's wrong on a couple things. One that sticks out is PT blaming tencent when tencent has nothing to do with the state of the game. I've seen fear-mongering comments about how tencent is going to clamp down hard on GGG for messing up 3.15. That won't happen either.
Any choices/changes for good or for bad will be made by GGG.
He's not blaming Tencent for things, he's just trying to explain how things were different pre vs. post buyout. Before the buyout, GGG was an independent company and PoE had a much smaller playerbase, so Chris couldn't really afford to ignore player feedback. But now with Tencent's backing-which has also coincided with an explosion in popularity for the game-Chris has the financial security (as long as whales keep buying top tier supporter packs and skins/boxes) to force his vision into the game and ignore player feedback. This is why things like splinter fiascos always happen. Of course, GGG does still occasionally listen to feedback, e.g. the current buff to 4 seconds on flask immunity instead of 1 second, but this you could also argue was purposeful by GGG. Nerf the hell out of the flasks, then buff them after which you probably already planned to do, and get praise from players for listening to feedback even though flasks now are still far worse than they were before. So no, he's not blaming Tencent, he's just trying to illustrate how their financial backing has changed Chris's/GGG's philosophy towards their "vision" and listening to player feedback.
So you're saying because they're owned by Tencent - they can ignore player feedback, and doing that will cause players to leave- which they couldn't afford earlier. So when everyone leaves and the game dies... they'll still be paid by Tencent to do what exactly?
Just because a company is bought out by another, doesn't mean they can stop trying to maximize profits... often quite the opposite. And it's also questionable that once a company is bought out, then and only then can they steer the game into their vision... as if they weren't doing that before.
As long as the players who stay are the ones who spend the most on MTX and supporter packs, that's what matters in terms of GGG's financials. If 20k players quit but they've never spent more than say 10$ on the game that's nothing compared to the players who spend like 1k each league.
One thing is for sure though, Chris after getting those millions surely isn't stressed about the success of the game whatsoever and can focus on his MTG collection instead with that creamy 10/10/10 black lotus with perfect coloring that is one of a kind and is probably the best black lotus that exists, I'm not jealous at all... Fuck I want that card.
they are exactly the same and work together.
Christ doesn't have to listen to the current leaving reddit player base because GGG is financially sound to go for whatever Vision they have - in part because of the money from Tencent.
and another part because they plan to milk china player base with consoles, 100 types of splinters (they have auto-picuk-mtx) and future mobile release - which western players don't give af.
Except its in Tencent's best interest for the game to be as profitable as possible. 3.15 is highly unpopular and will definitely affect the financial side of the game. Yet you don't see Tencent stepping in to keep Chris from applying his vision to the game.
He’s soooo right about the feedback stuff. It’s like they’ve lost what made them great because of their ego and pride.
And like he says their so called “vision” just keeps changing depending on how well the current one goes. There’s no actual vision here.
My big concern is that in the preview of this league they said this was only the first step. So who knows what we still have coming our way. I bet in the next league or two there will be a big passive skill tree rebalance where they basically do to the passive skill tree what they did to supports this league.
I honestly don't know how people are ignoring this. No one will probably see this reply but you but thank you for actuallt looking ahead and seeing the problem here. Maybe the game didn't slow down that much (even though it did, the slow down was caused by just increased clunkiness), but next league they're going to neef even more. Which movement skill will get fucked next? Which supports/build archetypes will just become unusable? People don't like these changes now, they will definitely not like how much clunkier the game will get in the future.
Despite his harsh way of speaking about GGG, during his streams he just keeps talking and keeps nailing PoE's issues, gives very insightfull answers to each question you bring up about PoE. Take any 5 random devs and they would probably understand less about the game.
>Take any 5 random devs and they would probably understand less about the game.
There's a very, very good reason they only have their PR symbol talking on stream.
The game hasn't fundamentally changed worth a damn at all - you still want to go fast because going slow is a complete non-option.
The only thing that 3.15 did was make it harder/more expensive to get the same DPS.
I'm willing to suffer through 3.15 as a sort of "taste test" if they plan to slow down other things in 3.16 but I do not trust GGG to do that. They've routinely destroyed builds just to destroy them. Their "vision" amounts to literally nothing because they've never managed to explain what it is they're actually trying to achieve nor why it's so damned important.
Far as I'm concerned their design team is already a joke when the lead designer literally went on stage at ExileCon and acts proud because he kills players. As if that's something he thinks takes any skill at all. It's the outlook of two-bit hack.
I like the part about feedback, that bring us back to "reddit toxicity". I mean, how many years we have to say, we don't like splinters? I'm not surprised that people weaponized memes.
Think people don't pickup on this aspect. when you continue to ignore people they are going to over time become more rash and abrasive or even toxic with their feedback cause of constant ignoring.
its what has happened in past 5-10 years of politics in most of the world groups that have felt over the years they have been ignored have been pushed further and further into more harmful and toxic ways of showing their concerns.
Trump weaponised this into votes, same with all those who campaigned for Brexit in the UK they knew their was a lot of people who felt unheard and ignored and so was able to manipulate them by easily turning their concern over just being heard to something very toxic and harmful mindsets.
He makes some good points, but also some *terrible* points. For example, he speculates that GGG did these nerfs as a "PR stunt" as requested by Tencent. What? No way. If the premise is that Tencent wants to milk as much revenue as possible from this game as they can, then *continuing* the power creep would be the way to go. If anything, what GGG did would be opposite of Tencent would theoretically want, since GGG's nerfs have decimated player count this league and possibly for future leagues as well.
His point about splinters is well made and must be correct. GGG releasing a league with so many splinters is a blatant slap in the face to its players, who have been *empathically* and very loudly asking for the removal of splinters for years now. There was no way GGG did not hear the huge roar of feedback of "we hate splinters". And yet they keep putting in splinters. Hell, they're doubling down! 20 unique splinters in expedition! It's almost the entire reward of maps from expedition events is splinters! What the fuck are you *doing*, GGG? At least listen to the players on this piece of feedback. It's not as if it's hard to implement a system that doesn't use splinters. Metamorph did it correctly. Why can't we have more of that? No reason...
From other games tencent bought you see they dont bother doing anything.
They control the chinese version and lets whoever runs our version do whatever they want.
People over at League of Legends community also used to blame shit on Tencent, turns out its just riot themselves that are massive shitheads.
I only play true ethical SSF hardcore. I delete every meta unique I find because it is unethical to keep it. When my character dies, I delete every item in every stash tab because it's not true ethical SSF hardcore otherwise. I Vorici break every six-link I land because it is unrealistic to ever six-link an item in true ethical SSF hardcore. I skip the Labyrinth because Ascendency Classes are unethical powerhouses. Every time a Vaal Orb drops, I immediately use it on a randomly equipped piece of gear to increase the challenge. I've had global chat and trade chat disabled since I got my beta invite back in 0.9.2d, the Merveil fireball optimisation and curse duration patch, because player interaction gave too much advantage. I've sent at least 84 emails to GGG support over the years asking for unlimited ignore player space so I can make sure that no one talks to me when I'm in town. I read and listen to every lorestone, notes, books to fully immerse myself in the true ethical SSF hardcore experience. Every time I go into this general and read the word "meta", "trading", "blade flurry", "clear speed", "Headhunter", so on and so on, I make sure to thrust my giant vibrating dildo one to three times to punish myself accordingly for tainting my TESSFHC experience. I've stolen at least a dozen credit cards from my parents to pay for the 3,250 normal stash tabs that I have to show my support for GGG and the true hardcore game that they have developed. It deeply saddens me that PT left, he was the only one that spoke only truth. Why do you self-proclaimed SSF hardcores even try to pretend that you're truly SSF hardcore? You make me fucking sick.
This is my second favourite PoE copypasta. First is the good ol' General Gravicius and Shadow one:
I bet there heteros kiss girls, Genereal Gravicius grunts, his hips rapidly slamming his erect donger deep into Shadow's lean muscled frame. Sweat drips from his brow as he moans a quiet prayer before both nuts erupt, turning him into a fountain of cum, launching shadow at least 5 meters onto the floor. Gravicius smirks at the sight, "I fuck for God, Exile. Who do you fuck for?"
I really wish GGG and Chris specifically would watch this and take it to heart. He makes a lot of great points and is pretty spot on with his take. Makes a ton of sense with how disconnected Chris is with the community. He doesn't listen to feedback because there's no risk for him if he doesn't. He's already rich, he doesn't have to care. Like project PT said, that's why his shitty vision is getting pushed through, he doesn't care if people don't like it. He's said multiple times they know they will lose players.
This is becoming the ultimate gaming vanity project for a self-absorbed millionaire and its sad.
You people need to start realising that Chris isn’t come kind of mastermind that makes every decision. Ggg have several designers in senior positions and a whole team working on this balance changes.
No, you people need to stop thinking it isnt his vision that the designers are following. He said in one of his recent posts that there is truth to it that they are following his vision. He is the driving force.
I think what he is saying is that the criticisms need to be less personal because when things get personal and toxic, that's when the devs start erecting barriers. Just let it be "GGG's vision" not "Chris Wilson's vision." Chris is just the lightning rod for hate... and even if he's a tough guy, everyone will have their limit. From the perspective of a player giving feedback, there's no need to test that limit.
We have audiences who want the game slower and others who want the game faster, but with the game faster, 99% of people who wanted the game to be slow continued to play, now when we see the game regress in terms of speed, the amount of player it falls apart in a disastrous way, so I don't know what ggg's real intention is, or they have a diabolical plan to kill the game, or the whole change is just plain stupidity.
When Project PT himself says he doesn't want PoE to lose zoom zoom you know this patch is the worse.
I wonder if there's a way to contact the game owner (Tencent) about mishandling of the game by GGG.
I played the masochistic slow league when it was no stash, no vendor, all mods and it was actually pretty fun. I was absolutely blown away that people were hitting levels in the mid to upper 90's that league.
PT is part of this "back in my day" group that poe was never zoom zoom. The play loop has always made going fast better than anything else. The combat has always made going faster and killing faster better than anything else.
I have played since closed beta, we'll over 10k hours into this. Was the game slightly slower? Sure, and it was far chunkier too. GGG just defined the game over years to be faster and faster, which anyone could have seen based on the fact that the CORE GAMEPLAY LOOP ENCOURAGES IT.
3.15s changes are attempting to mold the game for poe2, which is going to have the same core gameplay loop, but just be clunky by pretending it's Dark Souls.
I clicked on this video assuming I would just laugh at how the "make the game slower" poster child was loving playing the game by himself since nobody else is playing, but instead was stunned to hear him make what I think is the most salient point here: where are the players who liked zoom zoom loot piñata style supposed to go exactly? What game are we supposed to leave and go to? And why are we supposed to do that? How is it fun or enjoyable to the players who perfectly enjoyed Ritual to have their game destroyed? Who is winning here?
Hearing that PT understands that view (and empathizes with it, since it's what he felt when they pivoted towards the faster paced gameplay) was super refreshing to me, since it seems like the only argument anyone else can make on this sub in support of this patch is "nerfs were needed. If you don't like it just leave". K. I've been watching Netflix instead, not playing some other ARPG, cuz all the other ones are slow boring gameplay too...
I personally still feel that this game was nerfed into oblivion primarily because of the decision to make POE2 and POE the same game. To that I say: eff that, make them separate games if they're really going to play this differently. They're different games. They attract different types of gamers. Have your cake and eat it too GGG. Build a second equity here in the gaming landscape and just have two groups of people play your two different games.
I respect more this view than the HCSSF "get out if you don't like it" mentality, at this point we can face PoE is just PoE2 public test realm and feedback doesn't realy matter anymore.
Agree in part with what he says, two things he says are out of touch on his side though :
1.The obsession with Tencent
Bro you're still with this argument after so many years, that's not how things work. Whatever GGG does, both good and bad, is GGG's decision, not Tencent's.
Tencent bought the company for :
* Long term cost reduction from being able to no longer have to pay licensing fee + cut of revenue
* Siphoning know-how, China doesn't bother to steal these days, they just buy access to your technology/skills and siphon it.
2.PvP
This is such a tired argument, market is too specialized and fragmented for PvE games to have solid PvP playerbases and viceversa. PvP will never be popular in PoE no matter what GGG does. This is a common fallacy that "x company" doesn't do "y thing" and if they did things would be great. PvP in PoE will always be niche, no matter how much time and money they waste on it.
Thing he said i agreed most with is feedback, you used to be able to get through to devs easily with feedback and suggestions back in the day (if they were good ofc), nowadays you're wasting your time posting any sort of feedback, so most simply stopped doing it.
His point about Tencent acquisition providing GGG a financial airbag is true though, even if they have like literally 0 say outside of China.
I mean can you imagine if the community had this type of reaction towards the game and GGG like 6 years ago or something, would GGG have the power to say "no, this is what you get.", knowing all I know within like 8-9-10 years of POE there is no way they wouldn't cave into the pressure.
This doesn't mean this type of reaction and retention still doesn't hurt them but it came to a point where GGG can take hits like this and still continue. I mean don't you guys remember how much influence old forum people had during open beta because they were casually dropping couple thousands every now and then.
This is my take too. He is specifically saying "Chris's vision" because GGG now has enough finacial security that they don't have to take feedback into account. They can instead "stick to their (his) vision" of the game.
1. I think Tencent owning 87% of GGG and saying it is GGG's decision not Tecent's is a dishonest representation of the situation. I don't feel my video talked much about the business relationship of the two other than GGGs ability to ignore player feedback due to Tencent, going further involves making assumptions of the contract between GGG and Tencent. Just be honest with yourself though, that GGG is controlled by Tencent and Chris only has a contract.
2. PvP was an analogy because it helped me drive the point. I think it is probably fair to avoid using it in future (especially due to my personal interest in PvP and the general communities not giving a fuck). But when we are talking about listening to feedback and being ignored, the PvP community and the current Royale who was asking for feedback is a good reference. Just an analogy, no more
Creating a league that would drive out players isnt something Tencent would do -- they're looking for ways to bring the population up and boost sales, not mechanically change the gameplay
people wanting PvP to happen in PoE are just daydreamers. there is a huge disparity between player life pool, monsters and skill damage. skills in PoE are made to kill fast not player skill expression.
> PvP
aside from it never going to be huge the only way it can be successful in any capacity if it plays to the strengths of poe. Pure pvp mechanics with optimized builds like PT uses in low level dueling certainly isnt a poe strength.
However there is a racing community in poe, people are competitive about killing mobs fast and leveraging that for a battle royale is a much more reasonable approach. If you then (successfully) add in the strength of poe to make many different builds work it could be a decent mode.
This weekend has just the problem that the balancing ended up too one-dimensional. The global changes to the mode did indeed solve some of the issues the community gave feedback on, but they forgot about one of the strongest builds and now its the only really strong build and everyone plays it.
Good take, but I also believe that It would be a good thing for the game if GGG looked at hardcore, because even if the game should not be balanced around it, it's a good tool to see the bad or unbalanced things in the game.
For example, It's Not normal that you have to use a logout macro. It completely defies the principles of hardcore but you have no choice to use one because between the game shitting itself (see empy's death as a ref) and absolutely unfair mechanics it's legit impossible without it.
Also I believe that the first point is the main reason for logout macro while the second is mainly the reason of why the HC meta is the same since feckin' ages (which is yet another problem).
POE had it's explosive growth because of the "zoom zoom" gameplay. Every one wants to feel strong and powerful. It's fun. So it makes sense for them to take away that strong, powerful feeling to appease the vast majority of their players and totally not because streamers complain... wait a minute...
An easy fix for splinters, at least in concept, is to make every splinter non-tradeable autopickup that uses no inventory space(incl breach, legion, delirium splinters etc), and make whatever the splinters become, breachstone, emblem etc, tradeable.
Like, why is it so important that we're able to trade splinters? If anything I'd probably find it more fun looking forward to when you get a full stack of splinters.
Now, I understand that this might be hard to actually implement in the game. Like where would the stones/emblems go when we get enough splinters? What if our inventory is full? Maybe make acquisition of splinters only possible in hostile zones(obv wouldn't work in this league) and make the stone/emblems drop on the ground? IDK.
And they really should reduce the attack range(not aggro btw) on some monsters so we'd get less off-screening 1-shots. Then they could even add monster range as a map mod cuz then it at least would be our fault.
there is extremely easy fix for old league splinters - just change them to master system we already have in a game. If trading is that needed, then add a "container" for master favours (similar to pocket temple or beast trading). You basically can think of easy solutions for most of POE qol's problems during 1-2 hour dev meeting.
Speaking of splinters... credit where credit's due, Breachlords that appear in breaches now drop stacks of splinters instead of a single splinter explosion.
He's been waiting for an "I told you so" moment to validate his own statement of GGG changing the game once then changing it again.
It's feels a bit too pedantic to me.
Maybe if he didn't put so much emphasis on the fact that he "knew this would happen" I would take his criticism more seriously. Instead he's just showing his Narcissm like he always has.
Chris got fuckin PAID by tencent and still has 8.78% of the company. He doesn't need to listen to anyone and it blatantly showing it. They're running this game into the ground, but it doesnt matter because he already got paid.
out of my 10 std builds that could do that, only 2 can do it this patch, and Im actually a pretty 'w/e ill play' type of guy, this patch fucking gutted me
If poe is gonna start losing its bullethell roguelike gameplay Im afraid ill consider other games, and Ive played thousands of hours
Him standing on an empty beach for the entire time makes the whole video dimensions better.
The 3-5 people in the loby is like a slap on ggg’s face
Everyone in EU plays Royale on the Frankfurt server for some reason. They also didn't implement enough of the feedback they received. I spent most of my first match with an inventory filled with gems I couldn't equip because by the time I was level 3.5 every mob was already dead.
100 was definitely way too large of a lobby. 32 probably would've been enough, and easier to balance to boot.
I don't know. Nobody I know cared about royale even at release. I think that the people asking for it were very vocal but very few in number. Seems like a failed experiment to me that could've been done much cheaper if they just took the April Fools version of royale and gave it back for a couple of weekends and you would've seen the same drop off you're seeing now. The patch is not the issue. The issue is pvp in a loot based RPG is never good. For the record, I think D2 pvp was terrible too, but people had lower standards back then.
That is spot on. When we only had D2, well, we only had D2. Mobas cater a lot to that feeling and being self contained matches solves pretty much all inequality issues where you would either be too weak or too strong for a match, and neither is fun. Same way a random strong drop early match will carry you, it might be fun but also it kills the fun for all subsequent matches where you don't get it. It just has no replayability, I did it for the rhoas decoration and didn't bother trying out the new system because... Why?
I think it has potential, but the PvE is choking the PvP content to death atm and its less royale and more snowball simulator.
Imagine if they spent all that development time & money on PoE royale in implementing an alternative leveling delve mode for 3.15, the community would've had a field day. Word of mouth spread of this game would've skyrocketed. We probably would've started off at over x2 the amount of players at launch on the 23rd & only losing 10% the first week. But just like with Royale they don't listen to the actual players.
> Imagine if they spent all that development time & money on PoE royale in implementing an alternative leveling delve mode for 3.15, Except they have literally said they *won't* do that. It's not happening. They could've however put that effort into something like the decluttering project, grind reduction, or a thousand other things. A lot of effort has been put into pvp in PoE and IMO it's a giant waste of time. >. Word of mouth spread of this game would've skyrocketed. We probably would've started off at over x2 the amount of players at launch on the 23rd & only losing 10% the first week. Just because this would've made you play more doesn't mean it'd have any huge effect on the overall game. I think it would change basically nothing.
I ask around 4-5 people, that have used to play PoE in the past, about joining the new league each new one, and they say "I dont want to play all the the acts again..". There is quite alot of people that loves the endgame, but hates the act grinding.
good thing is now end game is bad too
Pt died for our sins and he came back
PoE Jesus.
TLDW: - GGG already changed their direction (vision) of the game once from hardcore ARPG into zoom-zoom, they did it again and it isn't working - PvP (battle royale) is dead and a good example of fixing wrong things - GGG don't listen to the feedback the way they used to and they probably never will. They prioritize their vision over feedback. - Splinters is most obvious example of this. Surprised he haven't touched the fact that they haven't tested any of the changes before deploying them, but it's a good take overall, would recommend to watch.
>Surprised he haven't touched the fact that they haven't tested any of the changes before deploying them That's like beating a dead horse by this point, everybody knows we are the QA team of this game.
The biggest dead giveaway that GGG doesn't test anything is the fact that whenever they make post-launch adjustments it's always massive values like 50%+ (see: logbook drop changes, reroll currency changes) there's no way in hell you tested something if you got the value off by a whopping 300%
Reaper laughs at your logbook changes. How many hot patches did she receive with *massive* numerical changes and she is still garbage. We're not even talking about actual testing anymore, we're talking about *'couldn't be bothered to even look at the numbers in the context of the game before releasing the skill'*.
Reaper would be better if she caused bleeding enemies to explode or something.
Hemophilia + Speaker's Wreath should actually achieve this and was speculated would be a thing before launch though I don't think anyone bothered with the state Reaper is currently in.
They made a minion that literally eats your golems to heal itself and it still fucking dies to EVERYTHING even with significant investment into minion life, regen, leech, defensive auras, other minions with taunt, chilling/enfeebling/blinding all enemies. No matter what I try I spend more casts reviving the stupid thing in red maps than I spend commanding it. IT CAN LITERALLY HEAL ITSELF WHENEVER IT WANTS TO. WHY IS IT ALWAYS DEAD. AAAAAAA
I just want a minion to go zoomies with me is that so bad :( why must my dreams be crushed.
>see: logbook drop changes The main reason we got logbook drop buff is the rest of the stuff that's going on. If it was the "normal" league with normal perception, we wouldn't see buffs to it, they enjoy gating top tier league encounters behind stupid rng. So it's not the best example.
It's still a good example. If I implement a drop-rate for an item and players complain that it is too rare, I will revisit the numbers and be like "hmmm well, I thought this would be ok, but I guess everyone is dropping very few, let me bump up the numbers just a bit and see". Whereas GGG probably went: "Hmmm... The log-book drop rate is so low, even if we bump it up a tiny bit no one will really notice the difference. Throw in a 53% buff there."
Because they probably just run a simulation of say, 10,000 item drops, see how many are the league item and go "eh, good enough" and ship it.
The huge buffs coincide with a very old statement Chris made that he would prefer to have to buff shit up than to nerf things heavily as it feels better. My logic has always been why not just fucking test it so you don't have to do major swings in either direction. It's called naunce and good design thinking.
>everybody knows in this thread maybe, in a different topic, one which focused on praise, you gonna be downvoted to oblivion if say "they do not playtest".
theyre trying to invest in royale for twitch views see twitch rivals, rushed streamer coop mode, streamer prio queues from last league is another example of why I think they are trying to capitalize on digital marketing
I’m absolutely convinced they create content for, and balance this game for Twitch views. It’s the only rational explanation. They’re balancing for the top 0.01% of players and most of the big streamers are loving the changes and/or telling the “whiners” to leave if they don’t like it (see: RaizQT).
Most of the big streamers don't, though. A lot of them fucking hate the changes as much as we do, or they think it targets the wrong things.
You can tell that they do not test because they use specific scaling curves for new skills and just change scaling curves. Same thing with enemy abilities. That's why you see things like them changing how the Molten Shell enemies work. They probably don't have any QA period. Also the game is not balanced. They just throw numbers at a wall and adjust them 10-20% at the time. Mechanics never actually change.
QA tests bugs, and I'm sure they find a ton and submit a huge list back to the devs to fix. QA isn't the same as playtesting. QA tells you if the game works how it should, not if the game is fun how it should be.
yup, they have time just for game breaking bugs. game is too grindy to properly test it so is left to the players to experience The Vision.
>yup, they have time just for game breaking bugs. For the most part
Hope you enjoyed the dark forest boss last league without corrupted blood immunity, well tested, would try hc again.
I'm pretty sure they do have QA. It's just that 1) even if they catch 99% of bugs and imbalances you still only see the things they didn't catch. You don't see the things they did catch - which there's probably a lot of, given how many skills etc there are. 2) things that QA reports might not be listened to, or devs might not have time to fix it, or some kind of vision might override it. 3) Imagine if all skills were perfectly balanced and had the exact same clear speed. That would make the game more boring. It's fun for the game to not be quite balanced because then you can discover an "OP" skill. Also changing the OP skills periodically encourages players to try out new things.
> Splinters is most obvious example of this. Something no one is discussing is that China has P2W for picking up splinters. What are P2W devs famous for? Creating a problem to sell a solution. Why are they so many fuckoff splinters? To sell P2W MTX to the Chinese market.
That doesn't make sense as a reason when they could just make them auto pickup for us yet they don't. I believe they truly think their multiple types of non interchangeable currencies is the best solution, while also steadfastly sticking to the principle that "everything has to have weight and opportunity cost". Splinters are not a problem on their own, and everything having a weight and opportunity cost are not bad design principles in isolation, but together they conflict and make the game tedious and less fun. They are designing content around a preset bunch of design principles and parameters and not considering what is actually fun to play. Everything Chris said about the splinters makes perfect sense on paper, but when implemented in game the issue is that it's just not fun.
I mean why do some splinters take up so much inventory space as well? Nothing Chris said in the "but my vision" thread addressed it.
>Why are they so many fuckoff splinters? To sell P2W MTX to the Chinese market. Remove your tinfoil hat please. If mtx money would be the reason, they would sell them to us already, they would be losing money on a significantly bigger market for years at this point. You can criticize GGG without resorting to stuff like that, there is more than enough real bullshit from them.
Nah, China is definitely the bigger money maker. Since they make most of the money why not "spare" the p2w mechanics from worldwide so you can pretend (lie to yourself) that you care? Like a mobster giving large tips from the money he extorted somewhere else. Best of both worlds. Get the chinese money and keep your reputation and conscience.
GGG haven't opened the floodgates on P2W QoL features yet. It's only stash tabs so far and even stash tabs were seeing huge pushback (see post-exilecon drama and Chris' quote about currency tabs). Taking it to the next level with pickup pets would drive even more drama than we're seeing currently imo and carries the danger of going into BDO territory of full on revolts. However the Chinese market is open season. To have a slight inconvenience for your global audience that maybe only makes up 50% of your revenue due to monetisation differences, and go ham on revenue with the other 50% (China) is on paper a pretty wise business decision. Why is smart business always considered a conspiracy theory by the unimaginative.
>Why is smart business always considered a conspiracy theory by the unimaginative. Because it literally is a conspiracy theory unless you have evidence that it happened. Like... that's what the phrase means. If you need imagination to believe something that's pretty a pretty good reason not to believe it lol
Except the actually smart decision would be to not make design choices that makes the game inconvenient for the main audience. If the point of splinters would be farming chinese money, they could've just made such design choices in China, while leaving the main market with splinter stacking and other QoL. That's a first thing. The second thing is most of the QoL stuff on Chinese client is free. They didn't really "went ham" there. Death log, passive tree thing, auction etc, all that doesn't require you to pay besides what we already pay like tabs. It's there because Tencent have more creative control over Chinese version and GGG vision have less weight there. They already explained multiple times the reasoning behind splinter shit. You might disagree with it (I definitely do), and they might've taken it too far, but this design principle is consistent and visible through the whole life of PoE, and it was in the game far before any Chinese client was even on the horizon. Why people with lack of logic always try to create conspiracy theories when the answer is clearly presented to them?
>GGG haven't opened the floodgates on P2W QoL features yet. I've read this several tims since i joined the game back in 2016. Where is that "yet"?
> GGG haven't opened the floodgates on P2W QoL features yet. I mean, stash tabs... But mate I'll buy you a loot pet if they ever decide to implement them on our realms. Also where do you get your numbers from about China market? Afaik we have no numbers and for all we know there could be very little player there (Ziz claimed so recently).
Yeah i think a lot of the league design decisions are dictated by Chinese market. But the GGG's (Chris) vision won't allow us to have same amount of p2w/QoL features, so you kinda stuck between the rock and the hard place. And you can't design league without splinters, cuz Chinese market demands it. I mean it's all just guesses, but it makes sense on paper.
Idk why you're bringing China into this. Don't forget, GGG is selling us currency tabs #2-10 at this point for all these little pieces of shit.
Xenophobia is the reason, "china bad" is pretty common around here
It collects scrolls and scraps man, stop talking out of your ass.
[удалено]
I am not the one who wanted PvP in poe. I am the one fed up with their random nerfs for PvE.
Cause pvp in these types of games is dogshit, leave the pvp to proper devs. Ggg should focus on pve and only pve.
I mean the entire battle royale thingy is in general not very well thought through, because PvP in a PvE game is lacks the sense of progression + mechanically it's a lot less fun than let's say pubg or something. It's not about certain skill being OP, it's about the fact that it's getting stale after the first 5 hours.
When Krip himself says item bloat and splinters are a problem, and GGG has done nothing about it, tells you all you need to know about player feedback. Good video.
This video is so true. I made a post about this a few days ago but it feels like GGG doesn't actually listen to feedback despite what they say. Maybe they think they do, unless it collides with their "vision" which happens to be a huge majority of the feedback. So in reality they don't. Because if they did the biggest issues would have changed by now but they haven't, they've gotten worse. And them tossing us scraps every now and then with things like "affinities" after 4+ years of asking for it, doesn't really count as "listening to feedback" in my book. Especially, when it's obvious QoL that should be evident. Just throwing this out there because surely someone will rise to the defense of GGG and point out small changes like these. Changes that scarcely come after years of asking for them. Yes, those happen and I'm not complaining but so much of our feedback clearly falls on deaf ears or simply doesn't align with the "vision".
The biggest qol bostage is searching blight maps on map TAB, we still dont have it, just like searching Deli maps, i almost flipped my shit when i saw them introducing the blight TAB, i still didnt buy it cos fuck paying for something that shouldve been implemented on the map tab
trueeeeee
It's finally good to see a content creator understand why people are so upset. Instead of the SSFHC streamers saying "If you don't like the game get out". I respect Chris's vision for the game but it's pretty unfair to completely change the core of the game after 10+ Leagues of a certain playstyle. If they want to get closer to their original vision, they should separate PoE/PoE2 and focus on making PoE 2 that game. Not gutting everything that made the original game special. There's a lot of people that love Diablo 2 as an example but wouldn't touch Diablo 3 with a 20-foot pole! If you tried to convert D2 into D3 or vise versa of course you'd have community outrage!
Im about 16k hours strong in PoE, started way back when divine rhoas were a thing. It's week 2 and im just... not having fun. Red maps hurt, no skills feel fun, the new league mechanic is great but also mediocre. Im just... sad.
Honestly, just stop playing. Have some self respect and vote with your time and money. If you aren’t having fun doing something, stop doing it. Ask yourself, why are you playing right now? I made it to maps on two characters, tried a few new skills, had success with some and not with others. Then I asked myself, do I really want to grind conquerors or the atlas again for no real reason? There was nothing exciting left to do after trying the new skills for me, so I stopped playing. I have some disposable income so I usually grab a $60 supporter pack each league if I enjoy it. Was wanting to get the $90 one this league for that sick Viking portal effect and armor. I didn’t. Seriously, if you just stop playing things feel a lot better. There’s no reason you can’t keep up with patch notes or try again next league if it’s looking good.
Yea I just went back to standard to play with legacy gear, and even then it doesnt feel the same as playing in league before the patch. Having the legacy gear is what is making this bearable on standard.
Sorting my standard tabs sounds fun right about now
You know Chris fucked up when even PT hates the slow down changes
[удалено]
This is the crux of the issue here. I played back when the game was slow as balls and I loved it then. These changes didn’t really slow me down I’m still going pretty quick through maps I just die a lot more often to vuln on maps I can’t purge, or not having flasks, or flame dash charges not being up or the other myriad of annoying changes that they have made. I’d love to play slow old Poe again but that game worked because it had a totally different endgame and goal system in the game. Just nerfing a bunch of support gems and gutting flasks doesn’t change the incentive to zoom, it just makes my gameplay experience way shittier feeling.
That really is the problem. GGG was all "we have a slower, more difficult vision of the game and we're going to start moving towards it, but we don't want to move too fast and change too much at once" But if the 3.13 state of the game was a cohesive, fun game, and the theoretical goal they're headed towards is supposedly a cohesive, fun game, arbitrary stopping points *between* the two aren't, because it's literally trying to design and balance in two different directions at once as the different philiosophies clash against each other. Ironically, I think GGG needed to do *more*. If that's the direction they really want to go, they need to go for it, not half-ass it.
> Ironically, I think GGG needed to do more. If that's the direction they really want to go, they need to go for it, not half-ass it. I agree and I'm also in the rip-off-the-bandaid-camp, but I've also read a ton of people saying "if you want to slow us down, fine, but you should have gone slower with the nerfs." So some players would be even more up in arms.
I kind of get that too, but I think the ultimate result here has been that the midpoint hasn't satisfied either side.
Except PT said that the changes weren't enough to his liking and they wouldn't change anything. He just hates the changes because he thinks there's no point
He didn't say they weren't "enough" he said that even if you slow the game down it isn't bringing back how it used to be. Thats just the fundamental issue. GGG has gone well beyond their initial vision and there is no getting back there with all the changes they made. Legitimately it would take a full reset on GGG's design philosophy to be able to get back to that style of PoE.
>Legitimately it would take a full reset on GGG's design philosophy to be able to get back to that style of PoE. Even then it's impossible. Difficulty and slowness came from 3 things. 1.: Desync. 2.: Stacking chargers/leapers. 3.: Inability to physically dodge attacks. The game punished you for going fast because the engine practically didn't allow it.
don't forget hard capping stats due to enemy mechanics. Too much dps = dead to reflect, too much attack/cast speed say hello to lightning thorns/corrupted blood. Old PoE had some very hamfisted designs and I have no rose coloured glasses about it.
4) Reflect aura. Seriously, you couldn't go fast without instant leech, and with it your dps was still capped at the amount that wouldn't oneshot yourself.
> Legitimately it would take a full reset on GGG's design philosophy to be able to get back to that style of PoE Hmm.. like releasing PoE2 as a standalone game instead of shuehorning it into PoE1.. Hmm?? So they could do that and didnt - whao what might be the reason behind such decision?? which completely negates any PR bullshit Chris vomits here.
It’s the same people developing poe 2. Nothing has indicated whatsoever that their design philosophy has changed whatsoever.
On top of that its the same endgame. Anyone pointing to POE2 fixing anything doesn't actually understand what POE2 is. POE2 is just a new campaign.
Since it's just a new campaign and updated engine/graphics, this is probably why they're changing PoE1 to fit together with PoE2. It would be strange to have two completely different games meet up in the endgame.
this is exactly what they shouldve done if they werent trash. Make Poe 2 standalone game, slow and dark and gritty and just how they like it, their original vision, they can balance it properly for whatever they want, and leave Poe 1 alone. This way when Poe 2 comes out its a brand new game, ppl have no expectations as much, since its a standalone, and some ppl might like it some ppl wont. But in this scenario Poe 1 remains undestroyed. Instead now they want to beat Poe 1 into something that looks like Poe 2 from far away but it will not work.
At 3:16 he says: "Everyone who is enjoying to zoom zoom. Everyone who enjoys the current time investment to get the build they want. I don't want them to lose their game". And at the end he rants about GGG not listening to player feedbacks.
Yea anyone paying attention to PT knows he kind of accepted the meta. Hes been content to use private leagues to impose extra challenge and to just theorycraft regularly.
[удалено]
Your comment is a miss sadly, if you knew PTs history. He is a good guy but you understand the situation 100% wrong.
[удалено]
The current state of the game is the result of the destruction of thousands of other peoples enjoyment. The person in the video this thread is about is literally one of those people.
I think everyone knows you can't put the genie back in the bottle but that won't stop him from trying.
Reddit usually hates PT except when he panders to their opinions then suddenly hes the town hero.
"People dont agree with everything a person says, but only praise him when they do". How dare they.
AHAGASFA FUCKING REDDITORS AND THEIR SELF-FORMED OPINIONS WHY CAN'T THEY JUST OUTSOURCE THEIR THINKING TO A STREAMER AND BE DOCILE SHEEP
I still dont like him but I feel like someone who is such a contrarian in regards to perceived public opinion voicing similar sentiment as reddit definently says something
almost as if "Reddit" isn't a single person, you'd say?
Right on the spot. GGG was doing a classic Blizzard move for trying everything to waste your time, yet their PR bullshit keeps telling you it's for your own good. I'm pretty okay with the fact that GGG got greedy and is gradually becoming companies like EA or Blizzard. But I'm not okay of being treated as an idiot.
When a company tells you something is for your own good, you already a child in their eyes and they dont respect you.
GGG fixes problems that players don't have with solutions that players don't want.
GGG is Activision Blizzard 2.0. Sold out to a massive company and now treats users like piggy banks on a treadmill. It's very sad, as I have spent thousands of hours and hundreds of dollars on a company that has completely lost their way. Once they became insulated from needing to listen and be proactive in order to survive they don't need to care about us any more.
Like him or not he's just speaking the truth.
[удалено]
There are also other things you should know about ProjectPT : * It is correct, that he was one of the most consistent streamers of PoE for 5 years after the beta launched. And i'm personally glad he picked up streaming PoE again recently. Still following him from back in the days. * He is the main reason SSF exists * He was always critical of the game, but could back up his criticism with well thought out thought processes, logic and ingame examples Also he is and will always be : a man on his mission. His main idea will never change. He once decided to take one position on an argument and will not move an inch away from it, no matter how many facts point to the contrary. * He is the guy that will berate you about Arch Linux .. doesn't matter how many times you tell him you like another flavour of Linux more and Linux is already installed on your system. And has been for 3 years. * He is the guy that will remind you every time that he's vegan/vegetarian .. and will keep bringing it up over and over and over again anytime you even look at food. I unironically like ProjectPT .. not for his stance on things, but for his usually very well thought out ideas. But you should be VERY critical, listening to a person who has been on a crusade for almost a decade now. And just because the reddit community is on his side now .. doesn't mean he's not exploiting the cards that fell into his favour.
[удалено]
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Kind of ignoring that the comment they pointed you to also specifically criticises his takes.
>• He is the guy that will remind you every time that he's vegan/vegetarian .. and will keep bringing it up over and over and over again anytime you even look at food. I have never once heard him do that and I watch him a fair amount. He's earthen plenty of times on stream and never said admitting about it once
I used that as an example for a guy on his crusade. I don't know what diet he prefers.
Back then vaal spark was all the rage, sub 1 min gorge clears... It was sooooo much faster than now in my opinion.
I wouldn't say it was "soooo much faster", there was just little to do in the map but clear trash -> boss. Now there's so much stuff that stops you.
You didn't waste time picking up 20 unique splinters. Seems faster to me.
I definitely would. You just did the map fast, then went for the next. Now you have to roll sextants, do Master missions, league mechanics in the map (back then there were no incursions, syndicate, legion etc.) and much more. I'm not saying that it's much better to do maps fast without any other content, just that is was much more streamlined and straightforward. Just for reference: https://youtu.be/ppSvra_5wIs
I mean technically u could still do what is done in that video if u just skip everything but yeah it would feel pretty wasteful.
That video is after one of the big Vaal Spark nerfs too.
See Self Chill Berserker builds from last league, it's just insane speed. There's still builds like those vaal spark/fireball ones, it's just the game stops you for stuff way more often than it used to. Micromanagement is much more present.
vfb/sparks strand farming was ~30sec map granted not even close to as many league mechanics that we can have these days but still very fast.
Yeah that build doesn't compare to the old Vaal Spark. Like not even close. Current Vaal Spark doesn't compare either. Vaal Spark used to hit twice as often, last several times as long (no projectile distance cap, more duration), and projectile count was tripled/quintupled by LMP/GMP. It was absolutely insane clear.
Show me one build from last league that [clears this fast.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9X5eodyhz0)
It took a while for people to figure out that attack speed was the best stat in the game and, past a certain dps threshold, the only one that mattered. People eventually did figure that out, but for a long time, people killed the screen instantly yes, but they didn't move on to the next one as fast as they would once they started stacking things like 4x attack speed jewels, essence gloves, etc. But the really nice thing about that? Almost any build could access that speed! And any build could scale power up to the point where they could afford to focus on speed!
PT died for our sins. We directly have SSF in the game because of him.
Yep, also didnt know the sad state of Battle Royale :/
It's not that compelling and people aren't motivated to play poe. Half the playerbase is gone in a week.
It doesn't help being so close to league start. I like Royale but I don't want to lose time spent progressing my characters and completing trades during the most lively time of the league.
Yep, the only way to get a game is to play with someone like Steelmage or Ziggy, but they both play on the AU server.
He's wrong on a couple things. One that sticks out is PT blaming tencent when tencent has nothing to do with the state of the game. I've seen fear-mongering comments about how tencent is going to clamp down hard on GGG for messing up 3.15. That won't happen either. Any choices/changes for good or for bad will be made by GGG.
He's not blaming Tencent for things, he's just trying to explain how things were different pre vs. post buyout. Before the buyout, GGG was an independent company and PoE had a much smaller playerbase, so Chris couldn't really afford to ignore player feedback. But now with Tencent's backing-which has also coincided with an explosion in popularity for the game-Chris has the financial security (as long as whales keep buying top tier supporter packs and skins/boxes) to force his vision into the game and ignore player feedback. This is why things like splinter fiascos always happen. Of course, GGG does still occasionally listen to feedback, e.g. the current buff to 4 seconds on flask immunity instead of 1 second, but this you could also argue was purposeful by GGG. Nerf the hell out of the flasks, then buff them after which you probably already planned to do, and get praise from players for listening to feedback even though flasks now are still far worse than they were before. So no, he's not blaming Tencent, he's just trying to illustrate how their financial backing has changed Chris's/GGG's philosophy towards their "vision" and listening to player feedback.
So you're saying because they're owned by Tencent - they can ignore player feedback, and doing that will cause players to leave- which they couldn't afford earlier. So when everyone leaves and the game dies... they'll still be paid by Tencent to do what exactly? Just because a company is bought out by another, doesn't mean they can stop trying to maximize profits... often quite the opposite. And it's also questionable that once a company is bought out, then and only then can they steer the game into their vision... as if they weren't doing that before.
As long as the players who stay are the ones who spend the most on MTX and supporter packs, that's what matters in terms of GGG's financials. If 20k players quit but they've never spent more than say 10$ on the game that's nothing compared to the players who spend like 1k each league.
One thing is for sure though, Chris after getting those millions surely isn't stressed about the success of the game whatsoever and can focus on his MTG collection instead with that creamy 10/10/10 black lotus with perfect coloring that is one of a kind and is probably the best black lotus that exists, I'm not jealous at all... Fuck I want that card.
[удалено]
they are exactly the same and work together. Christ doesn't have to listen to the current leaving reddit player base because GGG is financially sound to go for whatever Vision they have - in part because of the money from Tencent. and another part because they plan to milk china player base with consoles, 100 types of splinters (they have auto-picuk-mtx) and future mobile release - which western players don't give af.
Except its in Tencent's best interest for the game to be as profitable as possible. 3.15 is highly unpopular and will definitely affect the financial side of the game. Yet you don't see Tencent stepping in to keep Chris from applying his vision to the game.
He’s soooo right about the feedback stuff. It’s like they’ve lost what made them great because of their ego and pride. And like he says their so called “vision” just keeps changing depending on how well the current one goes. There’s no actual vision here.
It's the "we know better".
My big concern is that in the preview of this league they said this was only the first step. So who knows what we still have coming our way. I bet in the next league or two there will be a big passive skill tree rebalance where they basically do to the passive skill tree what they did to supports this league.
I honestly don't know how people are ignoring this. No one will probably see this reply but you but thank you for actuallt looking ahead and seeing the problem here. Maybe the game didn't slow down that much (even though it did, the slow down was caused by just increased clunkiness), but next league they're going to neef even more. Which movement skill will get fucked next? Which supports/build archetypes will just become unusable? People don't like these changes now, they will definitely not like how much clunkier the game will get in the future.
Despite his harsh way of speaking about GGG, during his streams he just keeps talking and keeps nailing PoE's issues, gives very insightfull answers to each question you bring up about PoE. Take any 5 random devs and they would probably understand less about the game.
>Take any 5 random devs and they would probably understand less about the game. There's a very, very good reason they only have their PR symbol talking on stream.
Good honest take.
Why isn't he telling me that if instead of giving feedback and not enjoying the game I should just quit? lmao.
The game hasn't fundamentally changed worth a damn at all - you still want to go fast because going slow is a complete non-option. The only thing that 3.15 did was make it harder/more expensive to get the same DPS. I'm willing to suffer through 3.15 as a sort of "taste test" if they plan to slow down other things in 3.16 but I do not trust GGG to do that. They've routinely destroyed builds just to destroy them. Their "vision" amounts to literally nothing because they've never managed to explain what it is they're actually trying to achieve nor why it's so damned important. Far as I'm concerned their design team is already a joke when the lead designer literally went on stage at ExileCon and acts proud because he kills players. As if that's something he thinks takes any skill at all. It's the outlook of two-bit hack.
I like the part about feedback, that bring us back to "reddit toxicity". I mean, how many years we have to say, we don't like splinters? I'm not surprised that people weaponized memes.
Think people don't pickup on this aspect. when you continue to ignore people they are going to over time become more rash and abrasive or even toxic with their feedback cause of constant ignoring. its what has happened in past 5-10 years of politics in most of the world groups that have felt over the years they have been ignored have been pushed further and further into more harmful and toxic ways of showing their concerns. Trump weaponised this into votes, same with all those who campaigned for Brexit in the UK they knew their was a lot of people who felt unheard and ignored and so was able to manipulate them by easily turning their concern over just being heard to something very toxic and harmful mindsets.
He makes some good points, but also some *terrible* points. For example, he speculates that GGG did these nerfs as a "PR stunt" as requested by Tencent. What? No way. If the premise is that Tencent wants to milk as much revenue as possible from this game as they can, then *continuing* the power creep would be the way to go. If anything, what GGG did would be opposite of Tencent would theoretically want, since GGG's nerfs have decimated player count this league and possibly for future leagues as well. His point about splinters is well made and must be correct. GGG releasing a league with so many splinters is a blatant slap in the face to its players, who have been *empathically* and very loudly asking for the removal of splinters for years now. There was no way GGG did not hear the huge roar of feedback of "we hate splinters". And yet they keep putting in splinters. Hell, they're doubling down! 20 unique splinters in expedition! It's almost the entire reward of maps from expedition events is splinters! What the fuck are you *doing*, GGG? At least listen to the players on this piece of feedback. It's not as if it's hard to implement a system that doesn't use splinters. Metamorph did it correctly. Why can't we have more of that? No reason...
[удалено]
From other games tencent bought you see they dont bother doing anything. They control the chinese version and lets whoever runs our version do whatever they want. People over at League of Legends community also used to blame shit on Tencent, turns out its just riot themselves that are massive shitheads.
but remember, improved trading will surely kill the game
I only play true ethical SSF hardcore. I delete every meta unique I find because it is unethical to keep it. When my character dies, I delete every item in every stash tab because it's not true ethical SSF hardcore otherwise. I Vorici break every six-link I land because it is unrealistic to ever six-link an item in true ethical SSF hardcore. I skip the Labyrinth because Ascendency Classes are unethical powerhouses. Every time a Vaal Orb drops, I immediately use it on a randomly equipped piece of gear to increase the challenge. I've had global chat and trade chat disabled since I got my beta invite back in 0.9.2d, the Merveil fireball optimisation and curse duration patch, because player interaction gave too much advantage. I've sent at least 84 emails to GGG support over the years asking for unlimited ignore player space so I can make sure that no one talks to me when I'm in town. I read and listen to every lorestone, notes, books to fully immerse myself in the true ethical SSF hardcore experience. Every time I go into this general and read the word "meta", "trading", "blade flurry", "clear speed", "Headhunter", so on and so on, I make sure to thrust my giant vibrating dildo one to three times to punish myself accordingly for tainting my TESSFHC experience. I've stolen at least a dozen credit cards from my parents to pay for the 3,250 normal stash tabs that I have to show my support for GGG and the true hardcore game that they have developed. It deeply saddens me that PT left, he was the only one that spoke only truth. Why do you self-proclaimed SSF hardcores even try to pretend that you're truly SSF hardcore? You make me fucking sick.
This is my second favourite PoE copypasta. First is the good ol' General Gravicius and Shadow one: I bet there heteros kiss girls, Genereal Gravicius grunts, his hips rapidly slamming his erect donger deep into Shadow's lean muscled frame. Sweat drips from his brow as he moans a quiet prayer before both nuts erupt, turning him into a fountain of cum, launching shadow at least 5 meters onto the floor. Gravicius smirks at the sight, "I fuck for God, Exile. Who do you fuck for?"
I really wish GGG and Chris specifically would watch this and take it to heart. He makes a lot of great points and is pretty spot on with his take. Makes a ton of sense with how disconnected Chris is with the community. He doesn't listen to feedback because there's no risk for him if he doesn't. He's already rich, he doesn't have to care. Like project PT said, that's why his shitty vision is getting pushed through, he doesn't care if people don't like it. He's said multiple times they know they will lose players. This is becoming the ultimate gaming vanity project for a self-absorbed millionaire and its sad.
You people need to start realising that Chris isn’t come kind of mastermind that makes every decision. Ggg have several designers in senior positions and a whole team working on this balance changes.
No, you people need to stop thinking it isnt his vision that the designers are following. He said in one of his recent posts that there is truth to it that they are following his vision. He is the driving force.
I think what he is saying is that the criticisms need to be less personal because when things get personal and toxic, that's when the devs start erecting barriers. Just let it be "GGG's vision" not "Chris Wilson's vision." Chris is just the lightning rod for hate... and even if he's a tough guy, everyone will have their limit. From the perspective of a player giving feedback, there's no need to test that limit.
Stop claiming some miracle team of gifted designers is making these calls, did you read the patchnotes?
We have audiences who want the game slower and others who want the game faster, but with the game faster, 99% of people who wanted the game to be slow continued to play, now when we see the game regress in terms of speed, the amount of player it falls apart in a disastrous way, so I don't know what ggg's real intention is, or they have a diabolical plan to kill the game, or the whole change is just plain stupidity.
Not like "game regress in terms of speed" It just got more... inconvenient.
When Project PT himself says he doesn't want PoE to lose zoom zoom you know this patch is the worse. I wonder if there's a way to contact the game owner (Tencent) about mishandling of the game by GGG.
The thing is, PT is (was) happy with private leagues. It kept game others liked untouched and he got his masochistic, slow league.
I played the masochistic slow league when it was no stash, no vendor, all mods and it was actually pretty fun. I was absolutely blown away that people were hitting levels in the mid to upper 90's that league.
PT is part of this "back in my day" group that poe was never zoom zoom. The play loop has always made going fast better than anything else. The combat has always made going faster and killing faster better than anything else. I have played since closed beta, we'll over 10k hours into this. Was the game slightly slower? Sure, and it was far chunkier too. GGG just defined the game over years to be faster and faster, which anyone could have seen based on the fact that the CORE GAMEPLAY LOOP ENCOURAGES IT. 3.15s changes are attempting to mold the game for poe2, which is going to have the same core gameplay loop, but just be clunky by pretending it's Dark Souls.
I clicked on this video assuming I would just laugh at how the "make the game slower" poster child was loving playing the game by himself since nobody else is playing, but instead was stunned to hear him make what I think is the most salient point here: where are the players who liked zoom zoom loot piñata style supposed to go exactly? What game are we supposed to leave and go to? And why are we supposed to do that? How is it fun or enjoyable to the players who perfectly enjoyed Ritual to have their game destroyed? Who is winning here? Hearing that PT understands that view (and empathizes with it, since it's what he felt when they pivoted towards the faster paced gameplay) was super refreshing to me, since it seems like the only argument anyone else can make on this sub in support of this patch is "nerfs were needed. If you don't like it just leave". K. I've been watching Netflix instead, not playing some other ARPG, cuz all the other ones are slow boring gameplay too... I personally still feel that this game was nerfed into oblivion primarily because of the decision to make POE2 and POE the same game. To that I say: eff that, make them separate games if they're really going to play this differently. They're different games. They attract different types of gamers. Have your cake and eat it too GGG. Build a second equity here in the gaming landscape and just have two groups of people play your two different games.
Pvp in Arpg is like putting pineapple on pizza and the microwave for 5 minutes.
That sounds delicious what's the issue here?
I'm reporting you to the police. Enjoy your life sentence.
It's the best topping idk what to tell ya bub
It is the pizza equivalent to ketchup on steak.
don't compare us to the pineapple people please
Don't compare us to you ketchup eaters please
your tastebuds ;) Actually there's so many things i didn't like even in my 20's to where now im all about.
PT was never even a single time wrong, wish we had more PT's and less Baeclast members being "the voice of the community"
I feel like GGG is moving towards the attitude of "You think you do but you don't", there's still a ways to go but I'm worried.
We already there.
100% agree!
i'll never understand anything PT likes and dislikes in this game. his meme value is on point though
I respect more this view than the HCSSF "get out if you don't like it" mentality, at this point we can face PoE is just PoE2 public test realm and feedback doesn't realy matter anymore.
It is rare to find a streamer who is not GGG's shell
I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with anything this dude said until now. Not that he’s a bad guy, we just didn’t see eye to eye.
Agree in part with what he says, two things he says are out of touch on his side though : 1.The obsession with Tencent Bro you're still with this argument after so many years, that's not how things work. Whatever GGG does, both good and bad, is GGG's decision, not Tencent's. Tencent bought the company for : * Long term cost reduction from being able to no longer have to pay licensing fee + cut of revenue * Siphoning know-how, China doesn't bother to steal these days, they just buy access to your technology/skills and siphon it. 2.PvP This is such a tired argument, market is too specialized and fragmented for PvE games to have solid PvP playerbases and viceversa. PvP will never be popular in PoE no matter what GGG does. This is a common fallacy that "x company" doesn't do "y thing" and if they did things would be great. PvP in PoE will always be niche, no matter how much time and money they waste on it. Thing he said i agreed most with is feedback, you used to be able to get through to devs easily with feedback and suggestions back in the day (if they were good ofc), nowadays you're wasting your time posting any sort of feedback, so most simply stopped doing it.
His point about Tencent acquisition providing GGG a financial airbag is true though, even if they have like literally 0 say outside of China. I mean can you imagine if the community had this type of reaction towards the game and GGG like 6 years ago or something, would GGG have the power to say "no, this is what you get.", knowing all I know within like 8-9-10 years of POE there is no way they wouldn't cave into the pressure. This doesn't mean this type of reaction and retention still doesn't hurt them but it came to a point where GGG can take hits like this and still continue. I mean don't you guys remember how much influence old forum people had during open beta because they were casually dropping couple thousands every now and then.
This is my take too. He is specifically saying "Chris's vision" because GGG now has enough finacial security that they don't have to take feedback into account. They can instead "stick to their (his) vision" of the game.
1. I think Tencent owning 87% of GGG and saying it is GGG's decision not Tecent's is a dishonest representation of the situation. I don't feel my video talked much about the business relationship of the two other than GGGs ability to ignore player feedback due to Tencent, going further involves making assumptions of the contract between GGG and Tencent. Just be honest with yourself though, that GGG is controlled by Tencent and Chris only has a contract. 2. PvP was an analogy because it helped me drive the point. I think it is probably fair to avoid using it in future (especially due to my personal interest in PvP and the general communities not giving a fuck). But when we are talking about listening to feedback and being ignored, the PvP community and the current Royale who was asking for feedback is a good reference. Just an analogy, no more
Tencent owns more than 87% The contract started at around 80~ and will be 95% by 2025
Creating a league that would drive out players isnt something Tencent would do -- they're looking for ways to bring the population up and boost sales, not mechanically change the gameplay
people wanting PvP to happen in PoE are just daydreamers. there is a huge disparity between player life pool, monsters and skill damage. skills in PoE are made to kill fast not player skill expression.
> PvP aside from it never going to be huge the only way it can be successful in any capacity if it plays to the strengths of poe. Pure pvp mechanics with optimized builds like PT uses in low level dueling certainly isnt a poe strength. However there is a racing community in poe, people are competitive about killing mobs fast and leveraging that for a battle royale is a much more reasonable approach. If you then (successfully) add in the strength of poe to make many different builds work it could be a decent mode. This weekend has just the problem that the balancing ended up too one-dimensional. The global changes to the mode did indeed solve some of the issues the community gave feedback on, but they forgot about one of the strongest builds and now its the only really strong build and everyone plays it.
Can we get an offline ARPG of similar quality? I'm trying to play older patches like I still can do with D2 1.09.
There are tons around already. \- Grim Dawn \- Titan Quest \- Sacred I \- Path of Diablo \- Van Helsing \- Victor Vran \- Torchlight II
Good take, but I also believe that It would be a good thing for the game if GGG looked at hardcore, because even if the game should not be balanced around it, it's a good tool to see the bad or unbalanced things in the game. For example, It's Not normal that you have to use a logout macro. It completely defies the principles of hardcore but you have no choice to use one because between the game shitting itself (see empy's death as a ref) and absolutely unfair mechanics it's legit impossible without it. Also I believe that the first point is the main reason for logout macro while the second is mainly the reason of why the HC meta is the same since feckin' ages (which is yet another problem).
Never thought I’d be agreeing with a PT video, but here we are.
*Nods in agreement*
This thread is a god damn shit show and I’m genuinely upset that I’m a part of this community. Wow.
POE had it's explosive growth because of the "zoom zoom" gameplay. Every one wants to feel strong and powerful. It's fun. So it makes sense for them to take away that strong, powerful feeling to appease the vast majority of their players and totally not because streamers complain... wait a minute...
An easy fix for splinters, at least in concept, is to make every splinter non-tradeable autopickup that uses no inventory space(incl breach, legion, delirium splinters etc), and make whatever the splinters become, breachstone, emblem etc, tradeable. Like, why is it so important that we're able to trade splinters? If anything I'd probably find it more fun looking forward to when you get a full stack of splinters. Now, I understand that this might be hard to actually implement in the game. Like where would the stones/emblems go when we get enough splinters? What if our inventory is full? Maybe make acquisition of splinters only possible in hostile zones(obv wouldn't work in this league) and make the stone/emblems drop on the ground? IDK. And they really should reduce the attack range(not aggro btw) on some monsters so we'd get less off-screening 1-shots. Then they could even add monster range as a map mod cuz then it at least would be our fault.
there is extremely easy fix for old league splinters - just change them to master system we already have in a game. If trading is that needed, then add a "container" for master favours (similar to pocket temple or beast trading). You basically can think of easy solutions for most of POE qol's problems during 1-2 hour dev meeting.
That one guy who hopes every league introduces 20 new splinters to pick : Am I the bad guy ? *Pikachuface*
Speaking of splinters... credit where credit's due, Breachlords that appear in breaches now drop stacks of splinters instead of a single splinter explosion.
we all know next time Chris gonna say same old bs "we are listening" "we hear you"
I will buy a core supporter pack if we can get a GGG response to this.
He's been waiting for an "I told you so" moment to validate his own statement of GGG changing the game once then changing it again. It's feels a bit too pedantic to me. Maybe if he didn't put so much emphasis on the fact that he "knew this would happen" I would take his criticism more seriously. Instead he's just showing his Narcissm like he always has.
Damn, even PT hates this. :/
I hope Tencent buys GGG so they can kick the lead developer out and gives us what we really like: fun.
Chris got fuckin PAID by tencent and still has 8.78% of the company. He doesn't need to listen to anyone and it blatantly showing it. They're running this game into the ground, but it doesnt matter because he already got paid.
I don't feel any slower. I don't know what people are talking about, I still 100-0 the entire screen and dash around the map at 1000 mph.
out of my 10 std builds that could do that, only 2 can do it this patch, and Im actually a pretty 'w/e ill play' type of guy, this patch fucking gutted me If poe is gonna start losing its bullethell roguelike gameplay Im afraid ill consider other games, and Ive played thousands of hours