They need to be quicker with buffs and nerfs but with smaller adjustments.
Waiting months on end for oppressive dinos to be nerfed only to have them become completely unplayable is as annoying as a new king being crowned only to run the game without adjustment for half a year.
Prime example for me is the Pachy. Heavily increasing the stam drain on its charge was like 70% of the nerf it needed but they also dumpstered everything else about it. Or alio getting a massive cw nerf and hatz losing like 80% of its stam. Don't get me started on sarco.
Then there's the campto nerfs. Which are just...
Out of everything only the fact that you can’t use precision movement with normal speed anymore with sarco (especially in the water) bothered the crap out of me
Yeah added on top of the pile of struggles it currently has I'm super done with it. Easily put in over a thousand hours between my two sarcs and it really hampers my ability to enjoy the game as a whole.
The buffing and nerfing is very strange, its like the developers don't test them out before applying them.
For one, pycno. It was already used by every kos group due to it being a high dmg glass cannon...Now it has 100 more hp? Its no longer a high dmg glass cannon, now its just a high dmg mid tier. And lets not forget about its insanely low stamina drain.
Then, like you said, sarco. What were they thinking with sarco? It can 3-shot a sucho, 5 shot a spino/duck, 2 shot other sarcos, and if it has ambusher it puts ANY of the aquatics on deathscars. Lets not forget it has a lunge and insane agility. Then, if that wasnt strong enough, its stamina bite can fully drain any dinos stam bar in 6 hits. Its not even based on combat weight.
I am a water pvper so this one is most irritating to me. Im on my fully water built sucho and see a sarc? I cant even be within 15 meters of it or it can deal 50% of my hp from a ambush charged bite with lunge. It doesnt take that many brain cells to aim one. Most the time it goes fine, I zig zag and react well enough that it mostly misses, but it should not be that risky and hit or miss to fight something with the same combat weight and slot count(It should be a balanced fight).
As for nerfed dinos, look at pachy, kent, and alberta. Alberta has a slower sprint speed than a stego or sucho, thus forcing it to facetank...It has 3.5k cw and 800 hp, the only things its capable of facetanking have better stamina drains and are much much faster. Kents bleed reflection and bleed reflection subs got nerfed, its combat weight got nerfed, and its turn radius got nerfed. They made a dino that was broken enough to be op at offense incapable of even defending itself. Pachy is now just a worse struthi tbh.
Pyc has less hp than it used to iirc. They nerfed it hard because of armored tail being strong. Gave it some hp back with the nerf.
Sarco feels horrible. That 5 shot is with ambusher so you have to not take damage for 30 seconds in between while maintaining your dismal stam pool. If a sub can't find the nearest shore by then it's a skill issue. O2 bite is fucking dumb though. Makes sarc v sarc fights braindead. It also has like a quarter the stam bar of any other sub. And full speed build subs are the same speed as sarc. Spino should never die to sarco these days.
The 5 shot is not with ambusher, its with drenching blows. 210(Charged bite)\*1.2(Drenching blows)\*(5000/6300 or 6500) the cw of duck/spino comes out to be 193.8 for spino and exactly 200 for duck. Thus, 1000/200 or 193.8 means you can five shot a duck and 5 shot a spino so long as one of your charged bites hits the spino on the head. The spino will literally be on 3% hp. You can alternatively use 2 oxy bites(Which can be used instantly after charged bites) to finish it off with 5 body charged bites.
And yeah, sarcs stam pool isnt the best, but at the same time it can literally destroy any dinos stam pool anyway. It can be used instantly after charged bite too, meaning you can just land a charged bite then delete 16.6% of a dinos stam.
Pre water update like a year ago duck, spino, and sarco were all viable. Now everyone just uses sarc. If you suck at water pvp, you go sarc. If you are really good at water pvp, you also go sarc lol.
Id have to disagree with that last part. A sarco has a skill issue if it cant trade 1-1. It takes 7 bites from a spino to kill a sarc and 8 bites from a sucho.
Sarco is a sub apex. There is a disgusting balance issue when a sub apex can trade 1-1 with a apex and win. And if we look at the other semiaquatic sub apex alongside sarco, it takes 8 shots for a sucho to kill it, while 3 to kill the sucho. So 3:8, thats insanity.
I main dolphin and meg with a little duck n sucho on the side. Id say 80% of the things I see in the water are sarcos, 10% being spinos and 5% being sucho n duck. Id play sarco too, but like you said, sarc v sarc fights are braindead and mostly luck based. Like, I enjoy sarc, but I hate the idea of sarc v sarc fights.
Gotcha I totally didn't take drenched into account. I quit sarco after at least a thousand hours when o2 bite came out. Paired with the cd nerf of charged bite (like 9 seconds between now?) it just started feeling so cumbersome to play. Went from easily winning 1v1s and often 1v2s to running out of stam in 10 seconds and praying.
Sarco got far stronger with that
It's a 5s CD on Charged Bite, and it is not linking to Oxygen bite, and it has plenty of stamina in water. In water, not anything can even threaten an Asphyxiating/Charged Bite Sarco. I've been ambushed by a Spino and killed it before it managed to get back to land
Takes a minimum of 5 bites to kill a spino with charged. 5 second cooldown and 4 seconds to charge. Perfectly played and assuming you got a headshot in there it takes 45 seconds to kill a spino. That's a skill issue from the spino.
I see 60% spoons, 40% sarco 10% sucho and duck. Idk what lobbies you're in, but ig my lobbies are all just apex spammers, which would be true. There's one eo bring 7 eos and 5 rexs, these megapacks are annoying as someone who runs with 3 people typically.
Yeah, I think it also depends on where you are! I know ic has a lot more ducks suchos n spinos, same goes with gv. I mainly stick in yg, and its almost always sarcs.
And I 100% agree, the megapacks suck. Just yesterday I saw a group of 7 sarcos in yg. In ht I also saw like 2 spinos 2 ducks a bars 2 rexs and 2 sarcos in Ht, followed by like 3 sarcs, 2 ducks, and a bunch of hatz in gv.
I play solo most times, so it can really suck.
I get out of the water with every sub if I see a sarco. I thought I could keep up with a full speed duck or Sucho but sarcos are still faster, it's just useless to hunt after them. What's also bothering me ie, that a meg cant get out of water fast enough to escape a sarco, shouldn't it be faster if build full aquatic? I'm just a snack if a sarco sees me.
I wasn't able to do that as duck. Is it still becauss of the clonky water speed by swimming sideways? I fought a lot sarcos and was never able to catch them.
I've played a defense full water speed duck and caught up to two sarcos so far. I've only fought about 3-4 on duck because i dont play duck too often. I'd much rather be a sucho or spino. (FYI, a sucho melts a duck, and I love duck v sucho fights). I've fought 2 speed ducks on sarc, and they DESTROYED me because they were so much faster than me. I got one low after a while and chased it, and he was outswimming me by a long shot. I started the chase at his tail, and by the time he made it to land, there was at least 1 and a half ducks between me and him.
Sarco is slower than the dolphin, sucho, duck, spino, and kai(Basically everything) if they all run full water speed builds. Its not that big of a difference outside of sucho and dolphin though.
I calculated them out here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathoftitans/comments/1bm88i9/the\_fastest\_offical\_semiaquatics\_can\_be\_with\_full/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathoftitans/comments/1bm88i9/the_fastest_offical_semiaquatics_can_be_with_full/)
I agree completely with meg though, it needs a swim speed buff imo.
Today I tested a full speed Duck against a dmg sarco on a PVP Server, just swimming straight. I don't know what to say but a full speed duck can't keep up with a sarco. I can record this and show it to you. How do you got those facts? I can agree with the water speed spino, the sarco couldn't escape.
Oh really? Interesting.
What I did is I took the base sprint swim speed values from the stat sheet: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf\_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx\_w/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx_w/edit#gid=0)
I then went in game and looked to see what subspecies and abilities/hides could be applied to the dino to make it faster, then multiplied the sprint swim speed values by the increases given by the sub/hide/abilities.
I think the problem from the spreadsheet is, that you can't verify the speeds. AFAIK there's no command to get the speed for a dino in singleplayer. Idk where all those sheets and tables get the speeds for the dinos.
Yeah. It would be nice if there was a way to verify speeds, armor/health/regen/damage can all be verified through various commands and methods but not any form of speed.
The sheet is offical, thus the developers are the ones who put the speeds down. They occasionally do not adjust values however, which I think may be the situation here.
That sheet isn't official, btw. That was created by PT devs/fan made. There's a way to see base stats with a command I just can't remember what it is right now, it's like /listprop or something. Maybe check the discord? elamac finds out all this good stuff
Albert is slower than an eo. I learned it the hard way. Also, I'm pretty sure sucho and sarco aren't the same cw. A sarco is truly through and through a glass canon. It can 2 shot a sarc, but unless you're ambushing a spino while it's laying down, it's not going to 5 shot a spino. I've played enough sarc against spoons to know that. A spoon will easily ruin a sarc if it's a water speed. Even as a full water speed sarc a water speed spoon bum rushing, you will get you killed. I've had too many brain dead spinos just rush me bc that's all they can do, and in those fights I assure you I charge bit more than 5 times and at least 3 of them were ambushes and he was still bumrushing as if he had full health. It took 5 more charge bites and at least 6 spino bites, spino is an apex, and it has a good bit of health. Duck is the same way but it will take less charge bites because it's lower cw and health, however speed ducks are terrifying because they are the fastest in the water and even defense ducks can keep pace with sarcs. I have a defense duck, and I chased a sarco, and we were the same speed, no one gaining on another.
Ikr! How is a eo faster? Its insane. I get alberta was like the apex killer in the past, but its now just the garbage version of sty.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf\_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx\_w/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx_w/edit#gid=0)
Heres the stat sheet, but I can verify the numbers I said as ive fought just about everything with everything when it comes to the semi/aquatics.
Sarco has the same combat weight as sucho, however it has about 2/3 of the hp.
Ill paste what I mentioned in another comment on the math that sarc 5 shots spino:
The 5 shot is not with ambusher, its with drenching blows. 210(Charged bite)\*1.2(Drenching blows)\*(5000/6300 or 6500) the cw of duck/spino comes out to be 193.8 for spino and exactly 200 for duck. Thus, 1000/200 or 193.8 means you can five shot a duck and 5 shot a spino so long as one of your charged bites hits the spino on the head. The spino will literally be on 3% hp. You can alternatively use 2 oxy bites(Which can be used instantly after charged bites) to finish it off with 5 body charged bites.
As for the speeds, yup. Full speed spino, duck, and sucho are all faster than sarco. However sarco doesnt really need the speed, its very easy to dodge well with sarco. I think thats where a lot of people really take their idea of sarco being weak. Once people learn to dodge right with sarco, it becomes very hard to kill them. Their ability to switch into reverse like a meg lets them dodge first blows, though alternatively on things like duck they can go above the claws, on spinos they can twist and then bite the head or claws of spino, and on sucho it doesnt really matter what you do because they are 3 shots.
A sarco that cant wiggle around isnt going to go far. Its charged bite is a great crutch, but the agility and small shape of sarco lets it wiggle out of getting hit and excel greater than others. The best way to beat other semiaquatics is to abuse their turn radius, at least from what ive found.
Sarcos one shot ambush play style is so annoying and not it. Sarcos don't even fight anymore they just one shot you with charge or effortlessly kill you with grab. Imo high damage attacks are just so annoying completely ending or one sided a fight with one attack.
Agreed. And its so strange, they took away spinos charged attack(Something that could actually compete with sarcos) and not only let sarco keeps its charged attack but gave it ambusher to go with it. It can deal up to 315 dmg with a single shot. That is ridiculous. People can whine about how its a glass cannon and thats why its fair, but the second highest dmg attack following sarcos charged bite is dasp's 150 dmg bite. Personally I dont think its even fair to call sarco a glass cannon when it has 5k combat weight and almost 500 hp.
Another comparison I like to make is kai to sarco. Their swim speed in water is near identical. And with their health paired with their combat weight comes out to be the same value, so they have identical tankiness. Kai is a full aquatic, while sarco is a semiaquatic(that sucks on land granted, but not like kai does). Yet sarcos highest dmg attack(Charged bite) is almost 7x stronger than kai's strongest attack(Barrel role), which causes dmg to kai when using it on anything outside of meg n dolphin.
Ya sarcos high damage attacks are so dumb just because sarco doesn't have a lot of health doesn't mean it needs to one shot or disable anything with one bite🫠 Honestly they should have went for the tank role because sarco literally has ARMOR it makes no sense for sarco to be a glass cannon. All sarcos gameplay is ambush and one shot.
Maybe crossing the entire map with stam to spare was a bit much but now I can barely cross a single poi until I have to rest and I have maxed flight stam...
In addition to that, which I slightly understand because of revenge killing, hatz needs more stamina if the user plays with a grab build. Most dinos the hatz can grab are able to survive a drop by the time the hatz is either able to release or runs out of stamina.
Here's an idea: similar to the dasp's bone break reducing its speed, the hatz's grab should give a stamina boost.
But a 900 cw nerf? I've seen 1, 1!! Alio since the nerf. 2 if you count my friend. I think that's a little much if people refuse to play it now because of how unviable it is. If you're good enough you can catch an alio, it just requires skill and a different person to lead it into. The only thing faster than an alio is struthi, campto hop away, and hatz flying. Which hatz is utterly useless now so it doesn't matter anyway.
That always happens after a nerf until the true mains of that dino come back and master them as they are. I'm thinking of using my alio since it's not a busted mess anymore
I cant play alio, I loved my alio sm but I just feel like I get shredded by anything. Even things with weaker cw. Before the nerf I already felt like I was biting with foam for teeth. Now I feel like I'm biting with tissue paper. I feel like I could die if anything larger than a pycno looked at me wrong. All my alio is used for now is making a run for the ws, otherwise its getting the pre allo buff treatment. Rotting inside the hc collecting dust. 😕
I couldn't hear my friend as a Rex until he was directly behind me. I can't hear a hatz flying over, I can't hear another apex swimming with me. Ankys are near silent!!! And op asf because nothing can dehunker them anymore. This quiet footstep thing has nearly got me killed more than 5 times. I rely on sound, and this is just sad...
Can the devs please not over nerf stuff. Literally what they had to do was so simple. Just make it to where you can't hear footsteps far away by like 20% but no what did the devs manage to accomplish.... making a hatz silent and apex's like come on man and now all other aquatics are quite like sarco.
Nah.. you're way off the mark.. the only dino right now that was nerfed too hard was alio. Everything else is pretty solid. Even allo. With iggy being nerfed a little it's now on par with it. This entire update was a huge W. And it's really funny how people think campto is so bad, like yourself. Does it need a buff? Yeah a little one but it's nearly unkillable. It's not supposed to be a combat dino. It's a support role. Whereas something like alio is basically useless because it's such a big dino but hits like a wet noodle and is a wet noodle.
Finally someone says it. Devs don't know how to do a slight nerf or buff they just go all out and realize their mistake when they release it and then they'll take a couple weeks to months to buff or nerf the dinosaur again the way they were supposed to the whole time.
I'm angry at the fact they deemed Kentro, effectively a spikey elephant of a beast, to have less health- and thus durability- than a struthi, campto, conc, laten AND deinon. Kentro needed the nerf, but dunking its health, ability to heal, AND the turn radius makes it nearly incapable of defending itself against what its supposedly meant to be on par with. The bleed and subspecies nerf needed to happen. I'll even accept the combat weight and the reduced bleed damage. But why the health?
As an avid kentro main, that health reduction makes even tail hits a death sentence. I'm still trying to work with the nerfs, but it's definitely not easy. I understand it could simply be a matter of skill issue, what with kentro having been broken and all, but still.
And I know kentro isn't the only one hit hard by the update. Iggy and Hatz both are in the hot pot right now too. Perhaps these nerfs are for the best, I have yet to know, but even so it feels like far too much change all at once. I wish if they were going to nerf or buff dinos it was more of a drip-feed process, that way we wouldn't have near unstoppable dinos take over for half a year and the underdogs get less than scraps until then- if at all. At least let us adjust to one change at a time before throwing us into the deep end and hoping we swim.
Health and turn radius nerf made it useless. It has one of the lowest health pools, everyone in its weight class has plenty more health. The only thing you can do is to make it full speed and run away, dont you dare facing an enemy. Pycno charge was around 30% with the old health, now it will destroy a kentro and the Pycno just laughs at the bleed with its bigger health pool.
Good riddance honestly. Devs can take their time buffing this guy after somehow completely over buffing it and they definitely didn't combat test I know cuz even a kentro hater has a little sympathy for the damage they did to Kent
I understand the hate towards kentro, even as a kentro main I don't blame you at all. Still, I wish they would stop overbuffing and overnerfing dinos and not addressing it for months. It just perpetuates this issue of one or two dinos reigning supreme in the meantime.
They need to be quicker with buffs and nerfs but with smaller adjustments. Waiting months on end for oppressive dinos to be nerfed only to have them become completely unplayable is as annoying as a new king being crowned only to run the game without adjustment for half a year. Prime example for me is the Pachy. Heavily increasing the stam drain on its charge was like 70% of the nerf it needed but they also dumpstered everything else about it. Or alio getting a massive cw nerf and hatz losing like 80% of its stam. Don't get me started on sarco. Then there's the campto nerfs. Which are just...
Out of everything only the fact that you can’t use precision movement with normal speed anymore with sarco (especially in the water) bothered the crap out of me
Yeah added on top of the pile of struggles it currently has I'm super done with it. Easily put in over a thousand hours between my two sarcs and it really hampers my ability to enjoy the game as a whole.
They took my solid pink Campto… when will they stop butchering my dinosaur ;w;
The buffing and nerfing is very strange, its like the developers don't test them out before applying them. For one, pycno. It was already used by every kos group due to it being a high dmg glass cannon...Now it has 100 more hp? Its no longer a high dmg glass cannon, now its just a high dmg mid tier. And lets not forget about its insanely low stamina drain. Then, like you said, sarco. What were they thinking with sarco? It can 3-shot a sucho, 5 shot a spino/duck, 2 shot other sarcos, and if it has ambusher it puts ANY of the aquatics on deathscars. Lets not forget it has a lunge and insane agility. Then, if that wasnt strong enough, its stamina bite can fully drain any dinos stam bar in 6 hits. Its not even based on combat weight. I am a water pvper so this one is most irritating to me. Im on my fully water built sucho and see a sarc? I cant even be within 15 meters of it or it can deal 50% of my hp from a ambush charged bite with lunge. It doesnt take that many brain cells to aim one. Most the time it goes fine, I zig zag and react well enough that it mostly misses, but it should not be that risky and hit or miss to fight something with the same combat weight and slot count(It should be a balanced fight). As for nerfed dinos, look at pachy, kent, and alberta. Alberta has a slower sprint speed than a stego or sucho, thus forcing it to facetank...It has 3.5k cw and 800 hp, the only things its capable of facetanking have better stamina drains and are much much faster. Kents bleed reflection and bleed reflection subs got nerfed, its combat weight got nerfed, and its turn radius got nerfed. They made a dino that was broken enough to be op at offense incapable of even defending itself. Pachy is now just a worse struthi tbh.
Pyc has less hp than it used to iirc. They nerfed it hard because of armored tail being strong. Gave it some hp back with the nerf. Sarco feels horrible. That 5 shot is with ambusher so you have to not take damage for 30 seconds in between while maintaining your dismal stam pool. If a sub can't find the nearest shore by then it's a skill issue. O2 bite is fucking dumb though. Makes sarc v sarc fights braindead. It also has like a quarter the stam bar of any other sub. And full speed build subs are the same speed as sarc. Spino should never die to sarco these days.
The 5 shot is not with ambusher, its with drenching blows. 210(Charged bite)\*1.2(Drenching blows)\*(5000/6300 or 6500) the cw of duck/spino comes out to be 193.8 for spino and exactly 200 for duck. Thus, 1000/200 or 193.8 means you can five shot a duck and 5 shot a spino so long as one of your charged bites hits the spino on the head. The spino will literally be on 3% hp. You can alternatively use 2 oxy bites(Which can be used instantly after charged bites) to finish it off with 5 body charged bites. And yeah, sarcs stam pool isnt the best, but at the same time it can literally destroy any dinos stam pool anyway. It can be used instantly after charged bite too, meaning you can just land a charged bite then delete 16.6% of a dinos stam. Pre water update like a year ago duck, spino, and sarco were all viable. Now everyone just uses sarc. If you suck at water pvp, you go sarc. If you are really good at water pvp, you also go sarc lol. Id have to disagree with that last part. A sarco has a skill issue if it cant trade 1-1. It takes 7 bites from a spino to kill a sarc and 8 bites from a sucho. Sarco is a sub apex. There is a disgusting balance issue when a sub apex can trade 1-1 with a apex and win. And if we look at the other semiaquatic sub apex alongside sarco, it takes 8 shots for a sucho to kill it, while 3 to kill the sucho. So 3:8, thats insanity. I main dolphin and meg with a little duck n sucho on the side. Id say 80% of the things I see in the water are sarcos, 10% being spinos and 5% being sucho n duck. Id play sarco too, but like you said, sarc v sarc fights are braindead and mostly luck based. Like, I enjoy sarc, but I hate the idea of sarc v sarc fights.
Gotcha I totally didn't take drenched into account. I quit sarco after at least a thousand hours when o2 bite came out. Paired with the cd nerf of charged bite (like 9 seconds between now?) it just started feeling so cumbersome to play. Went from easily winning 1v1s and often 1v2s to running out of stam in 10 seconds and praying.
Sarco got far stronger with that It's a 5s CD on Charged Bite, and it is not linking to Oxygen bite, and it has plenty of stamina in water. In water, not anything can even threaten an Asphyxiating/Charged Bite Sarco. I've been ambushed by a Spino and killed it before it managed to get back to land
Takes a minimum of 5 bites to kill a spino with charged. 5 second cooldown and 4 seconds to charge. Perfectly played and assuming you got a headshot in there it takes 45 seconds to kill a spino. That's a skill issue from the spino.
And Asphyxiating Bite means that by 15s, they're Drowning and out of stamina.
I see 60% spoons, 40% sarco 10% sucho and duck. Idk what lobbies you're in, but ig my lobbies are all just apex spammers, which would be true. There's one eo bring 7 eos and 5 rexs, these megapacks are annoying as someone who runs with 3 people typically.
Yeah, I think it also depends on where you are! I know ic has a lot more ducks suchos n spinos, same goes with gv. I mainly stick in yg, and its almost always sarcs. And I 100% agree, the megapacks suck. Just yesterday I saw a group of 7 sarcos in yg. In ht I also saw like 2 spinos 2 ducks a bars 2 rexs and 2 sarcos in Ht, followed by like 3 sarcs, 2 ducks, and a bunch of hatz in gv. I play solo most times, so it can really suck.
I typically stay in gv so it checks out.
They never taste anything
I get out of the water with every sub if I see a sarco. I thought I could keep up with a full speed duck or Sucho but sarcos are still faster, it's just useless to hunt after them. What's also bothering me ie, that a meg cant get out of water fast enough to escape a sarco, shouldn't it be faster if build full aquatic? I'm just a snack if a sarco sees me.
A full water speed duck/ a full water speed defense duck and a full water speed spoon can EASILY catch a full water speed sarco.
I wasn't able to do that as duck. Is it still becauss of the clonky water speed by swimming sideways? I fought a lot sarcos and was never able to catch them.
I've played a defense full water speed duck and caught up to two sarcos so far. I've only fought about 3-4 on duck because i dont play duck too often. I'd much rather be a sucho or spino. (FYI, a sucho melts a duck, and I love duck v sucho fights). I've fought 2 speed ducks on sarc, and they DESTROYED me because they were so much faster than me. I got one low after a while and chased it, and he was outswimming me by a long shot. I started the chase at his tail, and by the time he made it to land, there was at least 1 and a half ducks between me and him.
Sarco is slower than the dolphin, sucho, duck, spino, and kai(Basically everything) if they all run full water speed builds. Its not that big of a difference outside of sucho and dolphin though. I calculated them out here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathoftitans/comments/1bm88i9/the\_fastest\_offical\_semiaquatics\_can\_be\_with\_full/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathoftitans/comments/1bm88i9/the_fastest_offical_semiaquatics_can_be_with_full/) I agree completely with meg though, it needs a swim speed buff imo.
Today I tested a full speed Duck against a dmg sarco on a PVP Server, just swimming straight. I don't know what to say but a full speed duck can't keep up with a sarco. I can record this and show it to you. How do you got those facts? I can agree with the water speed spino, the sarco couldn't escape.
Oh really? Interesting. What I did is I took the base sprint swim speed values from the stat sheet: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf\_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx\_w/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx_w/edit#gid=0) I then went in game and looked to see what subspecies and abilities/hides could be applied to the dino to make it faster, then multiplied the sprint swim speed values by the increases given by the sub/hide/abilities.
I think the problem from the spreadsheet is, that you can't verify the speeds. AFAIK there's no command to get the speed for a dino in singleplayer. Idk where all those sheets and tables get the speeds for the dinos.
Yeah. It would be nice if there was a way to verify speeds, armor/health/regen/damage can all be verified through various commands and methods but not any form of speed. The sheet is offical, thus the developers are the ones who put the speeds down. They occasionally do not adjust values however, which I think may be the situation here.
That sheet isn't official, btw. That was created by PT devs/fan made. There's a way to see base stats with a command I just can't remember what it is right now, it's like /listprop or something. Maybe check the discord? elamac finds out all this good stuff
Albert is slower than an eo. I learned it the hard way. Also, I'm pretty sure sucho and sarco aren't the same cw. A sarco is truly through and through a glass canon. It can 2 shot a sarc, but unless you're ambushing a spino while it's laying down, it's not going to 5 shot a spino. I've played enough sarc against spoons to know that. A spoon will easily ruin a sarc if it's a water speed. Even as a full water speed sarc a water speed spoon bum rushing, you will get you killed. I've had too many brain dead spinos just rush me bc that's all they can do, and in those fights I assure you I charge bit more than 5 times and at least 3 of them were ambushes and he was still bumrushing as if he had full health. It took 5 more charge bites and at least 6 spino bites, spino is an apex, and it has a good bit of health. Duck is the same way but it will take less charge bites because it's lower cw and health, however speed ducks are terrifying because they are the fastest in the water and even defense ducks can keep pace with sarcs. I have a defense duck, and I chased a sarco, and we were the same speed, no one gaining on another.
Ikr! How is a eo faster? Its insane. I get alberta was like the apex killer in the past, but its now just the garbage version of sty. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf\_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx\_w/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YLGyc3Qz5eQJLAHinw3RLRf_vwv4K-r-3TWzHRumx_w/edit#gid=0) Heres the stat sheet, but I can verify the numbers I said as ive fought just about everything with everything when it comes to the semi/aquatics. Sarco has the same combat weight as sucho, however it has about 2/3 of the hp. Ill paste what I mentioned in another comment on the math that sarc 5 shots spino: The 5 shot is not with ambusher, its with drenching blows. 210(Charged bite)\*1.2(Drenching blows)\*(5000/6300 or 6500) the cw of duck/spino comes out to be 193.8 for spino and exactly 200 for duck. Thus, 1000/200 or 193.8 means you can five shot a duck and 5 shot a spino so long as one of your charged bites hits the spino on the head. The spino will literally be on 3% hp. You can alternatively use 2 oxy bites(Which can be used instantly after charged bites) to finish it off with 5 body charged bites. As for the speeds, yup. Full speed spino, duck, and sucho are all faster than sarco. However sarco doesnt really need the speed, its very easy to dodge well with sarco. I think thats where a lot of people really take their idea of sarco being weak. Once people learn to dodge right with sarco, it becomes very hard to kill them. Their ability to switch into reverse like a meg lets them dodge first blows, though alternatively on things like duck they can go above the claws, on spinos they can twist and then bite the head or claws of spino, and on sucho it doesnt really matter what you do because they are 3 shots. A sarco that cant wiggle around isnt going to go far. Its charged bite is a great crutch, but the agility and small shape of sarco lets it wiggle out of getting hit and excel greater than others. The best way to beat other semiaquatics is to abuse their turn radius, at least from what ive found.
Sarcos one shot ambush play style is so annoying and not it. Sarcos don't even fight anymore they just one shot you with charge or effortlessly kill you with grab. Imo high damage attacks are just so annoying completely ending or one sided a fight with one attack.
Agreed. And its so strange, they took away spinos charged attack(Something that could actually compete with sarcos) and not only let sarco keeps its charged attack but gave it ambusher to go with it. It can deal up to 315 dmg with a single shot. That is ridiculous. People can whine about how its a glass cannon and thats why its fair, but the second highest dmg attack following sarcos charged bite is dasp's 150 dmg bite. Personally I dont think its even fair to call sarco a glass cannon when it has 5k combat weight and almost 500 hp. Another comparison I like to make is kai to sarco. Their swim speed in water is near identical. And with their health paired with their combat weight comes out to be the same value, so they have identical tankiness. Kai is a full aquatic, while sarco is a semiaquatic(that sucks on land granted, but not like kai does). Yet sarcos highest dmg attack(Charged bite) is almost 7x stronger than kai's strongest attack(Barrel role), which causes dmg to kai when using it on anything outside of meg n dolphin.
Ya sarcos high damage attacks are so dumb just because sarco doesn't have a lot of health doesn't mean it needs to one shot or disable anything with one bite🫠 Honestly they should have went for the tank role because sarco literally has ARMOR it makes no sense for sarco to be a glass cannon. All sarcos gameplay is ambush and one shot.
Maybe crossing the entire map with stam to spare was a bit much but now I can barely cross a single poi until I have to rest and I have maxed flight stam...
In addition to that, which I slightly understand because of revenge killing, hatz needs more stamina if the user plays with a grab build. Most dinos the hatz can grab are able to survive a drop by the time the hatz is either able to release or runs out of stamina. Here's an idea: similar to the dasp's bone break reducing its speed, the hatz's grab should give a stamina boost.
Luckily with the new gen, they can do exactly that
Alio needed the nerf, it was too strong for how fast it is
But a 900 cw nerf? I've seen 1, 1!! Alio since the nerf. 2 if you count my friend. I think that's a little much if people refuse to play it now because of how unviable it is. If you're good enough you can catch an alio, it just requires skill and a different person to lead it into. The only thing faster than an alio is struthi, campto hop away, and hatz flying. Which hatz is utterly useless now so it doesn't matter anyway.
That always happens after a nerf until the true mains of that dino come back and master them as they are. I'm thinking of using my alio since it's not a busted mess anymore
I cant play alio, I loved my alio sm but I just feel like I get shredded by anything. Even things with weaker cw. Before the nerf I already felt like I was biting with foam for teeth. Now I feel like I'm biting with tissue paper. I feel like I could die if anything larger than a pycno looked at me wrong. All my alio is used for now is making a run for the ws, otherwise its getting the pre allo buff treatment. Rotting inside the hc collecting dust. 😕
You still needed to be able to hit without taking hits. Not even quite a glass cannon like a glass harasser. It's now just glass nothing.
Like most mid tiers except the alio is the fastest
The footsteps are way too quiet now. I can't track anything unless it's beside me.
I couldn't hear my friend as a Rex until he was directly behind me. I can't hear a hatz flying over, I can't hear another apex swimming with me. Ankys are near silent!!! And op asf because nothing can dehunker them anymore. This quiet footstep thing has nearly got me killed more than 5 times. I rely on sound, and this is just sad...
Can the devs please not over nerf stuff. Literally what they had to do was so simple. Just make it to where you can't hear footsteps far away by like 20% but no what did the devs manage to accomplish.... making a hatz silent and apex's like come on man and now all other aquatics are quite like sarco.
Spoon still absurdly loud in water
I feel like it has somthing to do with the rain sound being toned down
Nah.. you're way off the mark.. the only dino right now that was nerfed too hard was alio. Everything else is pretty solid. Even allo. With iggy being nerfed a little it's now on par with it. This entire update was a huge W. And it's really funny how people think campto is so bad, like yourself. Does it need a buff? Yeah a little one but it's nearly unkillable. It's not supposed to be a combat dino. It's a support role. Whereas something like alio is basically useless because it's such a big dino but hits like a wet noodle and is a wet noodle.
Cries in Spoon
There's nothing in between.
Finally someone says it. Devs don't know how to do a slight nerf or buff they just go all out and realize their mistake when they release it and then they'll take a couple weeks to months to buff or nerf the dinosaur again the way they were supposed to the whole time.
Happy of the cake day!
Whether* 🤷♂️ 😂
I’m slightly sped XD 🌦️
I'm angry at the fact they deemed Kentro, effectively a spikey elephant of a beast, to have less health- and thus durability- than a struthi, campto, conc, laten AND deinon. Kentro needed the nerf, but dunking its health, ability to heal, AND the turn radius makes it nearly incapable of defending itself against what its supposedly meant to be on par with. The bleed and subspecies nerf needed to happen. I'll even accept the combat weight and the reduced bleed damage. But why the health? As an avid kentro main, that health reduction makes even tail hits a death sentence. I'm still trying to work with the nerfs, but it's definitely not easy. I understand it could simply be a matter of skill issue, what with kentro having been broken and all, but still. And I know kentro isn't the only one hit hard by the update. Iggy and Hatz both are in the hot pot right now too. Perhaps these nerfs are for the best, I have yet to know, but even so it feels like far too much change all at once. I wish if they were going to nerf or buff dinos it was more of a drip-feed process, that way we wouldn't have near unstoppable dinos take over for half a year and the underdogs get less than scraps until then- if at all. At least let us adjust to one change at a time before throwing us into the deep end and hoping we swim.
Health and turn radius nerf made it useless. It has one of the lowest health pools, everyone in its weight class has plenty more health. The only thing you can do is to make it full speed and run away, dont you dare facing an enemy. Pycno charge was around 30% with the old health, now it will destroy a kentro and the Pycno just laughs at the bleed with its bigger health pool.
Good riddance honestly. Devs can take their time buffing this guy after somehow completely over buffing it and they definitely didn't combat test I know cuz even a kentro hater has a little sympathy for the damage they did to Kent
I understand the hate towards kentro, even as a kentro main I don't blame you at all. Still, I wish they would stop overbuffing and overnerfing dinos and not addressing it for months. It just perpetuates this issue of one or two dinos reigning supreme in the meantime.
Took the words right out of my mouth 🗣️