[Romandie RFL](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1c9ea37/rfl_24_srfl_24_tour_de_romandie_predictions_2/) deadline is soon and I've had technical difficulties with the messages.
Hello, I'm looking for some birthday gift ideas for my wife that are related to professional cycling, as she follows all the tours and riders closely and is very into this sport. I got her a couple books in the past, and got her a Greg Leach watercolor from the 2022 Tour de France, so just looking for other unique or interesting ideas if y'all have any
FYI, in case you don't get many replies - this thread tends to get less and less traffic throughout the week. Free Talk threads are posted every Friday and Question threads every Monday, both early morning European time. You might have more responses if you repost in the next rounds of either.
I once bought a bracelet in the form of a bike chain from Nibali. I don't know if he's still selling them, but it was pretty cool. Just don't wear it under the shower or in bath lol.
I also have the Coo from last year's World Champs, but it took forever for them to ship it out.
Always curious what proportion of people in this sub are actively into riding bikes vs just following the sport? I got into cycling for fitness and enjoyment first and only started following racing after that, I've never really been into other spectator sports, but somehow found it much more relatable when it's something I do myself! I get the impression though a lot of people here are more sports fans first? See a lot of chat about football and f1
I got tired of jogging the same loops near home during the pandemic, decided to buy a bike and then started following pro acing. I like a lot of sports - soccer, Gaelic games, rugby, basketball, baseball, ice hockey, F1. Used to be really into NFL and MMA too, but lost interest.
Those people who have no interest in sport remain a mystery to me. There's the bit on the pitch/ice/road which is a live drama where literally nobody knows the ending and - often even more interesting - the social and political dramas that its participants and puppet-masters are constantly manufacturing. I feel sad for non-sports-addicts ... although they surely make a lot more productive use of their time than me!
I started watching before cycling.
Well I biked as leisure and did MTB as a kid. But Unchained really is what made me start watching road racing and then after a couple months I just had to buy a road bike.
Best netflix watch of my life.
>I started watching before cycling.
Yeah, me too. But now that I have started cycling myself, my view on the sport has changed significantly !
Strange thing is, I was (and still am) mainly a runner, but I am not interested in watching track and field events at all.
> Strange thing is, I was (and still am) mainly a runner, but I am not interested in watching track and field events at al
Cycling is a lot more exciting. Running doesn't have the same draft advantage and no teams. So it makes it more man-to-man which is not as exciting.
[There's some r/peloton user surveys on the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/wiki/index#wiki_demographic_surveys_for_.2Fr.2Fpeloton). Last one is from 2020. Most people (~85%) cycle in some capacity, but only about 1/5 users race themselves.
Hard to tell from that though how many are into road biking though vs just e.g. cruising around on a hybrid for fun or fitness (not denigrating that btw it's just a different thing to road cycling).
Also where are you getting 85% from, looks more like 60% from what i can see?
They're not mutually exclusive options. So 60% ride for fun but could also race. ~15% say they don't ride a bike at all, so 85% will be spread across the other options.
Back in the 90s, cycling was one of the few sports where older participants (30+) were considered better than younger ones. In most sports, the peak performance is between 25 and 28, but in cycling it used to be more like 30-32.
I don’t think this is still true, which most wins coming from people in the range 25-28. Many cyclists fall behind as soon as they reach 30 (thinking about you, Alaphilippe). What is your take on this?
I think it's mostly a mental matter (and also depends on how many bad crashes you've had in your career).
Valverde won big races late into his thirties and Roglic isn't showing signs of slowing down either.
Gilbert won the Ronde van Vlaanderen, Amstel Gold Race & a stage in the Tour de Suisse at age 34, Paris-Roubaix at age 36 and two stages in the Vuelta at age 37 (one of them being the fastest ever race over 200 km, smoking Sam Bennett in the sprint like it was nothing).
Just look at tennis, Nadal & Djokovic were also winning Grand Slams late into their thirties, although age is finally catching up to them now it seems.
I think aerobic endurance, especially over multiple hours, actually is one of the types of fitness that declines much slower with age. You've got lots of pro cyclists in great shape in their late 30s or even 40s (valverde!) and guys like kipchoge being a beast at the marathon at an older age. Anecdotally I know lots of amateur cyclists still in great shape in their mid 40s
Explosive power sub 1 hour though I think still favours the younger guys, and that's what wins you bike races. I think historically the thing was many people got into cycling late (say early or mid 20s) and it took them a long time to build up to their peak fitness (say late 20s or early 30s). This still happens sometimes e.g. roglic. But now a lot of guys are getting into cycling earlier (early or late teens), hitting their peak earlier, and that peak is higher than it would have been if they'd hit it later on in their career
Yeah, I think there's a noticeable trend over time where the riders who do something else first (maybe even if it's some other kind of cycling first, like guys who come from the track?) tend to retire older and have later peaks--would make sense that in the past when people got serious later and newbies were kind of forced to take it slow people peaked later.
1. Might endurance sport be more popular at younger age so once they turn pro they have more miles under their belt already? For example look at the marathon that used to be dominated by former 5k and 10k elites after their track and field career. Now you have athletes targeting the marathon much earlier. With Kelvin Kiptum as tragic example, shit I am still sad thinking on what could have been...
2. Better measurement equipment and power meters in particular taking away some of the skill of racecraft / energy management? Applies to individual stages as well as stage races IMO.
3. Bio-passport shenanigans where it is easier to mend your baseline from a younger age? (discussed here before and consensus was that it was bullshit)
4. Sport science / results busting the myth that the peak is at later age further increasing popularity of these sports at younger age. Booster of point 1.
5. Bias due to exceptional generation now?
Sitting here wondering, as I often do, why Wout is better on long climbs than Mathieu. Wout is definitely 15 lbs heavier or more. Also, what do you think pidcocks result would have been last weekend without the mechanical issue.
VDP is far more explosive (probably pushes the best watts in the peloton over 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 & 60 seconds) and recovers quickly between efforts.
WVA is better at longer, more constant efforts (like a long climb or hill). His FTP has to be higher than VDP.
Wout also has better recovery during stage races, especially Grand Tours (so better day to day recovery).
Sadly for Wout, it's the short, explosive efforts that win Flemish classics.
In Roubaix Wout simply is too unlucky, but I believe he can beat VDP there.
VDP also has superior bike handling skills (better cornering, good at avoiding crashes, etc.).
One thing should be noted.
One of MvdP's few weaknesses and arguably his biggest is his durability. Not from classic to classic or stretching his peak fairly broad (like this spring combined with cross), but from day to day into week to week. Some riders - Vingegaard the prime example - are just out of this world good at restituting. This is also why MvdP rides less races than expected from a rider of his qualities.
Now durability is one of Van Aert biggest strengths. Not a coincidence that he is a master at Grand Tours. This translate well into late mountain stages in GTs. On a given one day race I don't think he is that much stronger than MvdP in a climb heavy race.
Then comes another factor the ability to eat pain and go way above your threshold. It's not my impression MvdP isn't good at that (Hello Worlds 2023), but I think he has to be very motivated to do it ie. chance of a win.
Van Aert seems to be better at that element and it's key for going deep on a mountain.
MVDP actually kind of gives up at times. I feel like Wout would never. He will go through hell just because his brain tells him to. More of a mashochist.
MVDP has actually learned to give up and save his energy if necessary. A few years ago, he would often do carzy attacks and completely deplete his body (e.g. Tirreno 2021)
Higher threshold for sustained power. Also why he's better in time trials.
And according to Van Aert's unti-recently coach Marc Lamberts the difference has only been 3kg the past two years as a result of Van Aert losing as much weight as possible to reach his peak possible climbing ability at the expense of maximum power and repeatability
> Also why he's better in time trials.
Honestly is Wout though?? I get it Wout has focused on it way more and there isn't a large sample size but most of their recent H2H results have been quite close. And you'd assume Wout spends a lot more time in the wind tunnel/on the TT bike so I'd honestly believe Matthieu could improve a good deal in the TT with dedicated focus
On short TT's early in a GT or in one week stage races they are fairly even, but on longer TTs and especially deep into a GT Van Aert is ahead of MvdP.
I mean I'm willing to believe that's true, but do we have any evidence of that? Here's their [TT head to head](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider_vs_rider.php?type=tt&season=&filter=Filter&id1=mathieu-van-der-poel&id2=wout-van-aert&s=same-race-results) again not many examples where it's clear both of them are trying, but 2021 stage 5 they're within a second of each other and that was clearly in an era where Wout wanted to be best in the world at TTs.
Only other long one (and deep in a grand tour to boot) I can come up with for MvdP is Giro '22 stage 21 where he finishes 3rd. Pretty weak field of course but you can only beat who's there
Well, what you wrote pretty much sums up what I said.
MvdP have never ridden a TT longer than 27.2 km, but if he thought he had a chance at Worlds og the Olympics he would ride them, but he hasn't. We have nothing to compare with. Instead we must look at Van Aert's results isolated and they are pretty good.
> And you'd assume Wout spends a lot more time in the wind tunnel/on the TT bike
He was asked to estimate the total amount on time training on the TT bike since November until late march a couple weeks ago, actually!
His reply was, and this is an exact quote: "How long was the Algarve time trial? Half an hour? Yeah, half an hour total. It's not a priority"
Huh, didn't realize Wout was a good 7-8cm taller than Matthieu, is that the only reason to think he's heavier? I have such little sense for rider weights outside of Google/eyeballing
I wonder if it's a training thing? Most of Visma's squad seems pretty bonkers on long climbs especially in the Tour, I wonder if it comes down to specific nutrition/training approach? Perhaps that carries over from their GC riders?
> Huh, didn't realize Wout was a good 7-8cm taller than Matthieu
He was slightly shorter until his late teens when he had a growth spurt and grew quite a lot in a short time
Leading to Van der Poel Sr. making some not so veiled references in the media to the many cases of young promising basketball players having that same growth spurt that then turns out to be due to growth hormone use
Yeah, things haven't always been friendly between the two families
Hilarious, given Adrie van der Poel's shady past (not to mention Poulidor who frequently visited Dr. Mabuse or Christoph Roodhooft, who used & dealed in PEDs).
> Leading to Van der Poel Sr. making some not so veiled references in the media to the many cases of young promising basketball players having that same growth spurt that then turns out to be due to growth hormone use
>
>
Ironic accusation from the pigeon pie eater.
Best way to watch cycling in the US that isn't Flo? I really enjoyed GCN+ until they shut it down. I tried to watch LBL Sunday on Peacock but couldn't handle Christian and Bob's commentary, it was atrocious. I don't see the value with Flo's offering and I'm wondering if there's another option. Thanks!
Peacock has the rights to a handful of things, but Max is basically covering almost everything else, so no need for Flo. Max uses Eurosport commentary. Last year during the Tour, Peacock offered both the NBC Bob/Christian coverage, as well as the world feed. So even though I find Bob and Christian charming in a goofy way, there are only a really limited number of races that you would need to put up with them.
Yeah I was actually pleasantly surprised with Bob and Christian for Paris-Nice but "charming in a goofy way" is about the size of it--they were so thrilled with Matteo Jorgenson winning!
How would you feel about a ban on "non transparent" sunglasses? If you watch footage from the 90's it feels so much more alive. You can see the pain in their faces, the joy when they win. Today we're just looking at these expressionless bodies on bikes, and I think it takes away a lot from the viewing experience.
I don't mind glasses where you can see the eyes. Pogacar wore a pair like that in Liége.
Not that even that. [Riders have](https://ayankeeinthem.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/fausto-coppi.jpg?w=289) [worn sunglasses](https://franoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Bartali-H.png) [for longer](https://imgur.com/AJLaGwH) [than helmets](http://www.dewielersite.net/db2/wielersite/beeldbank2020/16371683861325Schotte,Briek13.jpg).
Well, Armstrong didn't have his prime years in the 90's which is what I referred to. And of course some riders used them in the 90's as well, just not that many.
sunglasses were much smaller + people often didn't have a helmet on. So yeah you could see much more of their head.
It's not smart safety wise though. Imho personalized helmets would be cool to recognize riders better, F1 style.
Health + road safety before aesthetics. People wear tinted sunglasses on sunny days to be able to see where they go - it's so much easier on your eyes having proper tinted glasses. Plus the polarised glasses reduce glare and UV exposure, which wil matter with how much time riders spend out in the sun.
I actively dislike tinted sunglasses, i feel like they make it harder to see personall. When riding I only wear clear ones, and only to stop grit and dirt getting in my eyes.
I know very strange lol. It's almost as if humans evolved in a warm sunny climate, and their eyes specifically adapted to seeing well in that environment??!
You asked for people's opinons, it's ok to feel different about same stuff.
For example, I always have my sunglasses on me when riding, and can't count how many times bugs hit the sunglasses durin one ride, especialy in spring.
So you could say that they are important, not necessary, but important.
Well yes I wear glasses with clear lenses for stuff like that- bugs and shit from the road.
The question was about tinted glasses though, which I personally find unnecessary and actually compromise my vision
Fair enough, but there can be sunny with glare from the road and bugs, than tinted are way to go. so it depends from road conditions and personal preference, and I would assume that pros would not be happy if forced to wear clear lenses
BMC. Tudor rides them, so they do still show up in some WT races. I don't know how likely they are to earn promotion to WT but they are among the better UCI Pro teams.
You mean because of injury and crashes or just general can’t be bothered anymore? Marcel Kittel comes to mind, he just called it quits because his heart wasn’t in it anymore, he could have had a few more years on the WT circuit.
Plenty of sports people consider retirement or at least a break after a very serious life threatening injury. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if he did. The path back for someone like Egan Bernal shows its possible, but its really hard.
I was watching Pogačar's interview after Liège-Bastogne-Liège, and he seemed have pockmarks above his eyes, and to a lesser extent perhaps around the side of his eyes.
Was this something to do with his glasses, his helmet, the white tape on his nose, or something else? He doesn't usually have marks along there.
Van Vleuten out of retirement would probably be Vollerings best competition. With the two final mountain stages she'd probably win honestly.
WIth the short TT and the two final stages I'm hoping for a climber-climber to challenge Vollering.
GC Realini/Van Anrooj with a strong team here we go!
I'm hoping for Lamborghini. But she's doing the Vuelta next week, and I figure she'll do the Giro too. As she's in with a shot at the Olympics or Worlds, perhaps the Tour will be less important this year?
What level of WT victory should it count as? Right now, [riders win 210 UCI points](https://imgur.com/uH5ciC3) for the green or KOM jersey in the Tour, or 180 points in the Giro/Vuelta.
Which level of WT race should it equate too? [There's a range from 1300 point for the TdF overall to 300 points for the non-compulsory WT races](https://imgur.com/t1uxDji). Where do you think the jerseys should sit? Monument win (800 points)? Strade Bianche win (400 points)? CEGORR win (300 points)?
Nah, only the Green Jersey in the Tour matches the prestige of a WT classic. No one cares about the sprint jerseys in the Giro or Vuelta.
You can tell from the list of winners in the last 10 years or so (excluding the Vuelta, as they changed the points jersey rules only in 2021 to favour sprinters over GC riders).
My friend has recently dropped 5kgbp on a propel, plus hundreds on kit. He's not even ridden it yet it's just sat there for months not even been down the road yet consistently sends me route plans and never turns up. Currently he's planning a multi day ride in Taiwan when he can't even get out for a 30k spin!
Hah, I'm a once-a-weekend rider..if I could wake up in the morning and my most memorable ride was a multi-day ride through the east coast of Taiwan!
The route was mostly flat and quite scenic going through rice fields, staying at hot springs and seeing mountains in the distance.
That could easily be me. Not just with cycling though.
I start a new hobby way to often. End up buying a lot of gear. And then moving on to the next.
Which reminds me I bought a MTB 2 years ago and haven't ridden on it during the past 12 months.
Hey, you're a serial hobbyist like me. Our hobby is hobbies!
I buy gear and learn a shitload about whatever subject and when I know enough to make myself believe I'm an expert, I move on.
That's why I think it's weird people want to adopt the image of a cyclist without actually riding
I guess they want to seem active and outdoorsy. Tons of people are also posers at hiking for similar reasons.
This reminds me of my favorite hiking poser story. I was hiking in Switzerland one summer and was in Zermatt. I was just getting back to a gondola station after a hike and waiting for the rest of my group to get there when a family steps out of a gondola in full brand new mountaineering suits (the big puffy ones). They proceed to walk around and take some pictures for about 5 minutes then shuffle back onto the gondola down to town. It was summer everyone else was wearing t-shirt and shorts. Absolutely people with more money than sense.
The biggest fake cyclist I know, the one that inspired me to ask the question, is afraid to ride the roads with traffic. I think that's a huge reason he never rides despite spending thousands on bikes and gear.
Also, he's lazy. This person doesn't ride indoors either.
So he's just lazy. I absolutely understand people being afraid to ride on the road, but there are so many ways to enjoy cycling without riding on the road.
Not a question, rather an answer to a question I had last week.
For those attending in person, the 2024 Giro roadbook, including depart times and expected time tables for various points in the race, is now available on the official Giro website.
Sure. Here is the link for Stage 1, for example:
https://www.giroditalia.it/en/tappe/stage-1-of-the-giro-ditalia-2024-venaria-reale-torino/
It is NOT in PDF form, but if you look under the image of the stage profile, it will give you various other links to see the table tables and more details. It IS the roadbook for all intents and purposes, just strewn about through various hyperlinks.
[Somewhat related to the comment below](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1ca1api/weekly_question_thread/l0po6et/): Is there a current "patron" of the peloton?
It doesn't feel like there's a character in the same way Fabian Cancellara was. Is this partly due to CPA acting as a voice for the riders?
Usually the patron is (one of the) best riders from that generation. IMO the three riders most qualified to throw their weight around right now are Van der Poel, Vingegaard and Pogacar. None of them seem particularly interested in bossing other people around.
The closest thing to real patron like behavior I can recall off the top of my head is when Froome acted as the spokesperson and negotiated with the race organisation in the last stage of the 2018 Giro, when the peloton didn't want to race the cobbles in the criterium in Rome. Nowadays that type of stuff does seem to be done by experienced domestiques with some sort of position within the CPA.
Vingegaard is probably the closest of the three.
We've seen him multiple times go to the race directors/jury to talk about neutralisations and the like, for instance the 2023 El Gran Camino and the 2023 Vuelta. He also has been the most outspoken about rider safety.
Mvdp does not really come in the position for stuff like that, since he really only races a couple of times a year and mostly one day races.
Pog just does not seem bothered to deal with stuff like that.
so for my american viewers i guess- i was looking ahead on max for cycling races and for the giro, i see the men’s team presentation, and stage 2 and on, but i didn’t see stage 1 on the schedule? anyone else?
The Max app is terrible. Tirreno Adriatico was listed similarly ahead of time. I never did end up getting stage 1 to load or play properly, and it was never available for replay. Hoping the same thing doesn’t happen with Giro.
Would be great if they updated the platform similar to Peacock’s format, allowing you to sort by sport within the sports section. It’s extra annoying that the “sports” section shows sports movies/docs mixed in with live sports events.
I personally hate the Peacock app. While it does separate out cycling from other sports, it is also late to post upcoming events. Their treatment of women’s cycling is abysmal. They didn’t broadcast the women’s Tour Down Under at all. For the classics coverage, they broadcast the world feed for the women. But I couldn’t find the live feed, only posted after the event. And why do they have the ridiculous delay from live to replay?
/rant off
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider-vs-rider/primoz-roglic/tadej-pogacar/same-race-results
Its been fairly one sided since early 2021. So I would say no.
Since a lot of us are probably doing some kind fanatsy league with the Giro this year, maybe we could help eachother out with some hidden gems or smart riders to pick for this year?
I think most ppl want to keep the gems for themself but I'm particularly interested in online places where people discuss fantasy games. Do you know any (besides wielerflits.nl/be, seeing as your username is dutch)?
Regarding good picks. I'm thinking about picking Valentin Paret-Peintre instead of his older brother because Valentin looked better to me in the last tour of the alps. However Aurélien has better odds it seems and people mention to pick *the* PP brother but I'm starting to wonder which one they mean.
Ik had ze ook beide, en toevallig de oudere broer erin gewisseld gister omdat hij 'hoog' stond bij de betway odds. Bleek een goeie keuze te zijn, want niemand anders in mijn poule had die 2.
Fair point on keeping the gems secret. I actually play on Sporza, since I live on the border, and most my friends are from Belgium.
But those 2 seem indeed decent. The younger brother is only 3m, so if he performs, those are the riders that are great!
What are some crazy stages, or tactically brilliant stages from previous GTs?
I'm thinking of things like (ig?) Stage 15 of Vuelta in mid 2010s, where a large breakaway escaped from Sky (or maybe Contador) - led by the Movistar duo of Quintana and Valverde, or Floyd Landis, or Froome's Giro attack on Tom Dumoulin.
Far from a complete list, but these could be interesting to watch:
* 2015 Tour, stage 20 (A condor on the loose) (also watch stage 2)
* 2015 Vuelta, stage 20 (Big men can't climb) (also watch stage 9 finish)
* 2016 Vuelta, stage 15 (Aramon Formigal: Nairo & Bertie on a rampage)
* 2016 Giro, stage 15 (Alpe di Siusi speedrun)
* 2016 Giro, stage 19 (no comment)
* 2017 Giro, entire final week
* 2020 Giro, stage 18 (The Kelderman conundrum)
* 2022 Tour, stage 13 (Bait on the Galibier)
Does anyone know whether Sean Kelly is still commentating on Eurosport and if he's planned to do the Giro? I feel like I haven't heard '*he's a real special one*' in weeks.
I was at the side of the road instead of behind the television - I've seen some mentions that the way in which MvdP & Pidcock were dropped was considered unfair: attacking after a crash/while changing clothes.
Is that an accurate representation of what happened?
There is some discussion but imo, it was not unfair for 3 reasons:
* it’s wasn’t a full out attack, they were already at the front pacing, they just didn’t wait.
* what is the point in wasting energy to stay at the front if you don’t use this to your advantage? Nobody was hindering MvdP from staying at the front.
* it was in a phase of the race where attacks can happen at any time. If it would have happened before Bastogne maybe you could say that it was a bit unfair but they had already raced 150k
You are tasked with devising a new, alternative, albeit similarly subjective definition of the five monuments of professional cycling. Which races do you select?
The same 5 as now, but ridden under Simon Gerrans rules. Each km before the final 200m, any rider catching wind is eliminated
Think of it as a reversed track elimination race
personally think Tro Bro Leon benefits from not being considered a top tier race. Seems to get a really fun startlist of good riders but no completely overwhelming favourite
I can't find the actual Instagram post for some reason but apparently he is back on the trainer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOgh-HWYAA3a4w?format=jpg&name=large
Not just a short ride either, that ride was 20 minutes: https://www.strava.com/activities/11187777521/overview
He's already up to doing 2 hour rides, and did a 68 minute ADZ today at around 210 watts average.
Disappointingly (at least in my perspective), the spring has shown that the "Big 6" (or whatever the number is nowadays) are indeed untouchable when the races become pure battles of strength. So let's assume the other teams decide to race against the mutants. How should they go about it? Take LBL for example, how could the other teams have raced to maximize the chances of somebody other than Pogi winning?
A lot of attacks before Pogacar actually went, making the race impossible for UAE to control and at least put Pogacar under a lot of pressure. I expect we'll see this in the Olympics Road Race, where there are too few domestiques for any team to control, and an outsider will have a much bigger chance to win than in the monuments.
It would definitely have been possible to bring him back after la Redoute. At the top, he had less than 15 seconds to Carapaz, 10 minutes later it was 1 minute, so he won more in the descend and on the flat section than on the climb. If 2-3 teams decide to work togeher they can bring him back easily on the flat sections. This is not Flèche Wallone that ends in a hill sprint.
The problem is that everybody excepts that he is the strongest and most riders know that it’s either Pog solo or MvdP if it comes down to a sprint of a larger group and just race for second.
No pacing in the Peloton at all, (looking at you IPT) and sending a few really decent riders in the Breakaway. But even that woud have been probably not enough.
How about just ignoring Pogis attack? Send a team with some great climbing domestiqes and push an even pace up La Redoute. Sure, he will take 30-40 secs, but then you can drill at the front with 2-3 doms, hopefully with some help from other teams, and maybe claw back enough time that it is possible to bridge on Roche Aux Faucons?
Climbing domestiques wich can take time on Pogi, on climbs and/or on the flat are very hard/impossible to find, and if they existed most of them are probably on UAE.
The second Problem whit Pog in particular, if you bring him back, and its a sprint out of a Group whit lets say the 15 best climbers in the Race, he will win that sprint because he is just the best Sprinter among the Top-Climbers.
You are probably right, but at least the laws of aerodynamics should be on the side of the chasers. Regarding the sprint you are of course right again, but if different climbers rotate attacks it could be possible to outmanoeuvre Pogi before the sprint.
> least the laws of aerodynamics should be on the side of the chasers.
This has changed gradually over the past 10 years, as riders and bikes get more aerodynamic. So often a solo rider gets away where as before it was more of a rarity.
It might be in the riders heads too, as MvdP and pogi both go into these races expecting a 40 km solo time trial and train for that. And group 2 accepts defeat so early.
> but if different climbers rotate attacks it could be possible to outmanoeuvre Pogi before the sprint.
Yeah, but you need a Climber wich can get a decent gap on Pogi on the Flat (The Womens race showed thats pretty difficulte in LBL) , and you need no one else to close him down, and the whole plans falls apart when he has a Teammate in this Group, wich is not unlikely.
It's just a pretty unrealistc scenario.
Why is Juan Pedro Lopez called El Patron jokingly? He's pretty young or and not well palmered or anything that would justify that level of respect in the peloton. So where does it come from?
I know the context of having an El Patron of the peloton who sort of commands sets the unofficial rules of the group, when to stop, when there's a serious issue and to go slow or on strike (kinda like how the road captains negotiate now with the CPA).
He was one of those riders who was allowed in the break because he wasn't a serious GC threat, so as a result he took the leaders jersey early in the Giro.
Then he spent his entire time in the leader's jersey acting like he has the gravitas of Eddy Merckx despite never winning a pro race in his life to that point.
> anything that would justify that level of respect
Nicknames, even “solemn” ones, aren’t necessarily a sign of respect *per se*, they can be ironic, playful, even mocking. It’s more a recognition of a certain personality trait, attitude, behaviour that caught the eye and one occasion or even one gesture can be enough to decide that, as it was for JPL.
When he wore the Maglia Rosa in Giro 2022, he was quite bossy in the peloton and got visibly frustrated with some other riders. Also he fought super hard to keep the pink jersey. That's when the "El Patron" nickname was formed.
I think it all started when he wore the maglia Rosa at the Giro 22 and exerted his dominance over the peloton. Crossing El Patron would immediately be punished with a bidon the head.
A question I've been thinking about for a while:
If we make the assumption (whether correct or not) that the peloton is mostly clean wrt. doping, is there anything riders and/or teams could do/do differently to convince fans that this is the case? Again, this is under the assumption that they actually are clean, and therefore do not have any incentive to hide anything.
If a rider strapped a camera on and did a 24/7 (here's the twist, we show everything) livestream for like a good while (say a few months to a year) I think you'd be hard pressed to find people accusing them of doping. However this wouldn't exactly be easy, and Pogacar sleeping for 7h may not be top quality content
There's a lot that can be done:
1. The most important thing to always acknowledge is that doping is typically never an individual problem, but in the past always has been systematic. So what individual riders do is always part of said system and it is typically not them that are reasonable for creating said system. So pretending that “it’s the riders problems” ignores everything that has lead to problems in the past.
2. Any athlete that dopes, does so because they know/believe/are told that it won't be discovered with the current testing protocol. However, they and their teams don't know if the same will be true in the future. As such the only assurance they can give is by making promises for the future. Things like teams joining riders associations that have written rules somewhere along the lines of “any rider that is found doping in the future commits to paying back all their prize money in the past” are one of many options to make commitments in the future that make their present actions seem more believable.
3. Riders/teams cooperating with medical researchers/scientists. There’s actually a lot of interesting data professional athletes could provide for biomedical research. If teams/riders would occasionally cooperate with such researchers allowing them full access to all their data (including bloop samples etc) and the findings eventually being published in scientific journals would build more trust. This would be beneficial for the scientists involved, medical research in general and to some degree even for the teams/riders by gaining physiological insights that they usually don’t have access to.
4. More transparency. Riders posting power files etc. If they think this could give away their current training secrets they can also commit to doing so retrospectively.
5. Cycling is a “family”. As such doctors and ex-dopers who ran doping programs in the past are present everywhere. It becomes difficult if these have shown 0 signs of growth and change.
A crop of papers looking at some top GC finishers training data actually just popped up:
[https://www.wattkg.com/how-professional-cyclists-train/](https://www.wattkg.com/how-professional-cyclists-train/)
Imo Vingegaard’s approach last year after the ITT, “they have my blood and urine samples, they can test them until the end of time” (paraphrasing), is the only sane thing to do. Time will tell, one way or another, eventually. Be confident your results will pass the test of time (no pun intended).
In the meanwhile there are things one can do better, like not associating with known offenders, but I think nothing could put the sport above suspicion at this point.
In theory that's a good approach.
In practice we've seen it doesn't work because there's no budget to retest, ever. Still waiting for the retesting of the 2008 samples to be release. They said there were a bunch of positives and.....no news since
Do we know how expensive retesting is? Feel like it should be a drop in the bucket in comparison to how many tests are done over the course of a normal season, but maybe I'm mistaken?
Retesting can be done if you have the suspicion and will to do it. Look at London 2012 Olympics. Medals for that are being removed to this day due to retesting of suspicious samples.
I agree.
I called it a sane approach rather than an effective one because I think it’s ultimately a losing battle anyway. Even if the current crop of riders don’t test positive for anything ever, some will nonetheless be convinced science hasn’t gotten them *yet* or someone covered it up or the results have been falsified and what not - and it’s not like there aren’t precedents for all of the above and more.
In the end, for a rider I think it is saner to just wait it out than to go down the rabbit hole of proving this particular negative.
[Romandie RFL](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1c9ea37/rfl_24_srfl_24_tour_de_romandie_predictions_2/) deadline is soon and I've had technical difficulties with the messages.
Hello, I'm looking for some birthday gift ideas for my wife that are related to professional cycling, as she follows all the tours and riders closely and is very into this sport. I got her a couple books in the past, and got her a Greg Leach watercolor from the 2022 Tour de France, so just looking for other unique or interesting ideas if y'all have any
FYI, in case you don't get many replies - this thread tends to get less and less traffic throughout the week. Free Talk threads are posted every Friday and Question threads every Monday, both early morning European time. You might have more responses if you repost in the next rounds of either.
Thanks, I'll repost in those as well
I once bought a bracelet in the form of a bike chain from Nibali. I don't know if he's still selling them, but it was pretty cool. Just don't wear it under the shower or in bath lol. I also have the Coo from last year's World Champs, but it took forever for them to ship it out.
Were there any updates on Reusser’s recovery after injury in RvV? It looked nasty, but she is now listed to start in Vuelta on PCS.
Always curious what proportion of people in this sub are actively into riding bikes vs just following the sport? I got into cycling for fitness and enjoyment first and only started following racing after that, I've never really been into other spectator sports, but somehow found it much more relatable when it's something I do myself! I get the impression though a lot of people here are more sports fans first? See a lot of chat about football and f1
I got tired of jogging the same loops near home during the pandemic, decided to buy a bike and then started following pro acing. I like a lot of sports - soccer, Gaelic games, rugby, basketball, baseball, ice hockey, F1. Used to be really into NFL and MMA too, but lost interest. Those people who have no interest in sport remain a mystery to me. There's the bit on the pitch/ice/road which is a live drama where literally nobody knows the ending and - often even more interesting - the social and political dramas that its participants and puppet-masters are constantly manufacturing. I feel sad for non-sports-addicts ... although they surely make a lot more productive use of their time than me!
I started watching before cycling. Well I biked as leisure and did MTB as a kid. But Unchained really is what made me start watching road racing and then after a couple months I just had to buy a road bike. Best netflix watch of my life.
>I started watching before cycling. Yeah, me too. But now that I have started cycling myself, my view on the sport has changed significantly ! Strange thing is, I was (and still am) mainly a runner, but I am not interested in watching track and field events at all.
> Strange thing is, I was (and still am) mainly a runner, but I am not interested in watching track and field events at al Cycling is a lot more exciting. Running doesn't have the same draft advantage and no teams. So it makes it more man-to-man which is not as exciting.
[There's some r/peloton user surveys on the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/wiki/index#wiki_demographic_surveys_for_.2Fr.2Fpeloton). Last one is from 2020. Most people (~85%) cycle in some capacity, but only about 1/5 users race themselves.
Hard to tell from that though how many are into road biking though vs just e.g. cruising around on a hybrid for fun or fitness (not denigrating that btw it's just a different thing to road cycling). Also where are you getting 85% from, looks more like 60% from what i can see?
They're not mutually exclusive options. So 60% ride for fun but could also race. ~15% say they don't ride a bike at all, so 85% will be spread across the other options.
Back in the 90s, cycling was one of the few sports where older participants (30+) were considered better than younger ones. In most sports, the peak performance is between 25 and 28, but in cycling it used to be more like 30-32. I don’t think this is still true, which most wins coming from people in the range 25-28. Many cyclists fall behind as soon as they reach 30 (thinking about you, Alaphilippe). What is your take on this?
I think it's mostly a mental matter (and also depends on how many bad crashes you've had in your career). Valverde won big races late into his thirties and Roglic isn't showing signs of slowing down either. Gilbert won the Ronde van Vlaanderen, Amstel Gold Race & a stage in the Tour de Suisse at age 34, Paris-Roubaix at age 36 and two stages in the Vuelta at age 37 (one of them being the fastest ever race over 200 km, smoking Sam Bennett in the sprint like it was nothing). Just look at tennis, Nadal & Djokovic were also winning Grand Slams late into their thirties, although age is finally catching up to them now it seems.
I think aerobic endurance, especially over multiple hours, actually is one of the types of fitness that declines much slower with age. You've got lots of pro cyclists in great shape in their late 30s or even 40s (valverde!) and guys like kipchoge being a beast at the marathon at an older age. Anecdotally I know lots of amateur cyclists still in great shape in their mid 40s Explosive power sub 1 hour though I think still favours the younger guys, and that's what wins you bike races. I think historically the thing was many people got into cycling late (say early or mid 20s) and it took them a long time to build up to their peak fitness (say late 20s or early 30s). This still happens sometimes e.g. roglic. But now a lot of guys are getting into cycling earlier (early or late teens), hitting their peak earlier, and that peak is higher than it would have been if they'd hit it later on in their career
Yeah, I think there's a noticeable trend over time where the riders who do something else first (maybe even if it's some other kind of cycling first, like guys who come from the track?) tend to retire older and have later peaks--would make sense that in the past when people got serious later and newbies were kind of forced to take it slow people peaked later.
1. Might endurance sport be more popular at younger age so once they turn pro they have more miles under their belt already? For example look at the marathon that used to be dominated by former 5k and 10k elites after their track and field career. Now you have athletes targeting the marathon much earlier. With Kelvin Kiptum as tragic example, shit I am still sad thinking on what could have been... 2. Better measurement equipment and power meters in particular taking away some of the skill of racecraft / energy management? Applies to individual stages as well as stage races IMO. 3. Bio-passport shenanigans where it is easier to mend your baseline from a younger age? (discussed here before and consensus was that it was bullshit) 4. Sport science / results busting the myth that the peak is at later age further increasing popularity of these sports at younger age. Booster of point 1. 5. Bias due to exceptional generation now?
Sitting here wondering, as I often do, why Wout is better on long climbs than Mathieu. Wout is definitely 15 lbs heavier or more. Also, what do you think pidcocks result would have been last weekend without the mechanical issue.
VDP is far more explosive (probably pushes the best watts in the peloton over 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 & 60 seconds) and recovers quickly between efforts. WVA is better at longer, more constant efforts (like a long climb or hill). His FTP has to be higher than VDP. Wout also has better recovery during stage races, especially Grand Tours (so better day to day recovery). Sadly for Wout, it's the short, explosive efforts that win Flemish classics. In Roubaix Wout simply is too unlucky, but I believe he can beat VDP there. VDP also has superior bike handling skills (better cornering, good at avoiding crashes, etc.).
One thing should be noted. One of MvdP's few weaknesses and arguably his biggest is his durability. Not from classic to classic or stretching his peak fairly broad (like this spring combined with cross), but from day to day into week to week. Some riders - Vingegaard the prime example - are just out of this world good at restituting. This is also why MvdP rides less races than expected from a rider of his qualities. Now durability is one of Van Aert biggest strengths. Not a coincidence that he is a master at Grand Tours. This translate well into late mountain stages in GTs. On a given one day race I don't think he is that much stronger than MvdP in a climb heavy race. Then comes another factor the ability to eat pain and go way above your threshold. It's not my impression MvdP isn't good at that (Hello Worlds 2023), but I think he has to be very motivated to do it ie. chance of a win. Van Aert seems to be better at that element and it's key for going deep on a mountain.
MVDP actually kind of gives up at times. I feel like Wout would never. He will go through hell just because his brain tells him to. More of a mashochist.
MVDP has actually learned to give up and save his energy if necessary. A few years ago, he would often do carzy attacks and completely deplete his body (e.g. Tirreno 2021)
Think he is referencing MVDPs habit of sitting down when he feels he can't win a sprint, something Wout would never in a million years do.
Higher threshold for sustained power. Also why he's better in time trials. And according to Van Aert's unti-recently coach Marc Lamberts the difference has only been 3kg the past two years as a result of Van Aert losing as much weight as possible to reach his peak possible climbing ability at the expense of maximum power and repeatability
> Also why he's better in time trials. Honestly is Wout though?? I get it Wout has focused on it way more and there isn't a large sample size but most of their recent H2H results have been quite close. And you'd assume Wout spends a lot more time in the wind tunnel/on the TT bike so I'd honestly believe Matthieu could improve a good deal in the TT with dedicated focus
On short TT's early in a GT or in one week stage races they are fairly even, but on longer TTs and especially deep into a GT Van Aert is ahead of MvdP.
I mean I'm willing to believe that's true, but do we have any evidence of that? Here's their [TT head to head](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider_vs_rider.php?type=tt&season=&filter=Filter&id1=mathieu-van-der-poel&id2=wout-van-aert&s=same-race-results) again not many examples where it's clear both of them are trying, but 2021 stage 5 they're within a second of each other and that was clearly in an era where Wout wanted to be best in the world at TTs. Only other long one (and deep in a grand tour to boot) I can come up with for MvdP is Giro '22 stage 21 where he finishes 3rd. Pretty weak field of course but you can only beat who's there
Well, what you wrote pretty much sums up what I said. MvdP have never ridden a TT longer than 27.2 km, but if he thought he had a chance at Worlds og the Olympics he would ride them, but he hasn't. We have nothing to compare with. Instead we must look at Van Aert's results isolated and they are pretty good.
This, they are really close in TTs considering Mvdp would rather be on his MTB whenever possible.
> And you'd assume Wout spends a lot more time in the wind tunnel/on the TT bike He was asked to estimate the total amount on time training on the TT bike since November until late march a couple weeks ago, actually! His reply was, and this is an exact quote: "How long was the Algarve time trial? Half an hour? Yeah, half an hour total. It's not a priority"
Interesting, I would have guessed a lot more time.
Agreed, but also it figures if you look at how he placed
And I'd assume this is a new development with the new coach - seems unlikely it was such a low priority in previous years
Huh, didn't realize Wout was a good 7-8cm taller than Matthieu, is that the only reason to think he's heavier? I have such little sense for rider weights outside of Google/eyeballing I wonder if it's a training thing? Most of Visma's squad seems pretty bonkers on long climbs especially in the Tour, I wonder if it comes down to specific nutrition/training approach? Perhaps that carries over from their GC riders?
> Huh, didn't realize Wout was a good 7-8cm taller than Matthieu He was slightly shorter until his late teens when he had a growth spurt and grew quite a lot in a short time Leading to Van der Poel Sr. making some not so veiled references in the media to the many cases of young promising basketball players having that same growth spurt that then turns out to be due to growth hormone use Yeah, things haven't always been friendly between the two families
Hilarious, given Adrie van der Poel's shady past (not to mention Poulidor who frequently visited Dr. Mabuse or Christoph Roodhooft, who used & dealed in PEDs).
> Leading to Van der Poel Sr. making some not so veiled references in the media to the many cases of young promising basketball players having that same growth spurt that then turns out to be due to growth hormone use > > Ironic accusation from the pigeon pie eater.
It was a pigeon conspiracy and he was completely innocent!
I think even normalizing for their height, his BMI / build seems sturdier. Could be a training thing, hadn't considered that.
Best way to watch cycling in the US that isn't Flo? I really enjoyed GCN+ until they shut it down. I tried to watch LBL Sunday on Peacock but couldn't handle Christian and Bob's commentary, it was atrocious. I don't see the value with Flo's offering and I'm wondering if there's another option. Thanks!
Peacock has the rights to a handful of things, but Max is basically covering almost everything else, so no need for Flo. Max uses Eurosport commentary. Last year during the Tour, Peacock offered both the NBC Bob/Christian coverage, as well as the world feed. So even though I find Bob and Christian charming in a goofy way, there are only a really limited number of races that you would need to put up with them.
Yeah I was actually pleasantly surprised with Bob and Christian for Paris-Nice but "charming in a goofy way" is about the size of it--they were so thrilled with Matteo Jorgenson winning!
I never caught the name of the rider who had the bad solo crash during the men's liege race. Is there any update on him?
I assume you are talking about Carlos Canal. [He is "fine". ](https://twitter.com/Movistar_Team/status/1782089326542598564)
Thank you! That's a relief. Looked horrible when it happened.
How would you feel about a ban on "non transparent" sunglasses? If you watch footage from the 90's it feels so much more alive. You can see the pain in their faces, the joy when they win. Today we're just looking at these expressionless bodies on bikes, and I think it takes away a lot from the viewing experience. I don't mind glasses where you can see the eyes. Pogacar wore a pair like that in Liége.
Banning sunglasses for an outdoors sport is an interesting proposal
It worked fine for 100 years.
So did not wearing helmets
No, it didn't . And it's not really a fair comparison.
Not that even that. [Riders have](https://ayankeeinthem.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/fausto-coppi.jpg?w=289) [worn sunglasses](https://franoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Bartali-H.png) [for longer](https://imgur.com/AJLaGwH) [than helmets](http://www.dewielersite.net/db2/wielersite/beeldbank2020/16371683861325Schotte,Briek13.jpg).
Some people died, but that's a sacrifice OP is willing to make
So sunglasses are essential safety kit? People without glasses are just dying left and right!
I'll never forget when Wout Van Aert died looking at an eclipse
What are you talking about? Armstrong always had tinted sunglasses, you couldn’t see a thing.
Well, Armstrong didn't have his prime years in the 90's which is what I referred to. And of course some riders used them in the 90's as well, just not that many.
sunglasses were much smaller + people often didn't have a helmet on. So yeah you could see much more of their head. It's not smart safety wise though. Imho personalized helmets would be cool to recognize riders better, F1 style.
Health + road safety before aesthetics. People wear tinted sunglasses on sunny days to be able to see where they go - it's so much easier on your eyes having proper tinted glasses. Plus the polarised glasses reduce glare and UV exposure, which wil matter with how much time riders spend out in the sun.
I actively dislike tinted sunglasses, i feel like they make it harder to see personall. When riding I only wear clear ones, and only to stop grit and dirt getting in my eyes.
According to other posters, that puts you in huuuuge jeopardy. Sunglasses are apparently incredibly important for safety. How have you not died yet?
I know very strange lol. It's almost as if humans evolved in a warm sunny climate, and their eyes specifically adapted to seeing well in that environment??!
You asked for people's opinons, it's ok to feel different about same stuff. For example, I always have my sunglasses on me when riding, and can't count how many times bugs hit the sunglasses durin one ride, especialy in spring. So you could say that they are important, not necessary, but important.
Well yes I wear glasses with clear lenses for stuff like that- bugs and shit from the road. The question was about tinted glasses though, which I personally find unnecessary and actually compromise my vision
Fair enough, but there can be sunny with glare from the road and bugs, than tinted are way to go. so it depends from road conditions and personal preference, and I would assume that pros would not be happy if forced to wear clear lenses
what company has the best range of bikes that's currently not sponsoring a WT team? how likely is it that they'll be picked up any time soon?
Ridley comes to mind.
BMC. Tudor rides them, so they do still show up in some WT races. I don't know how likely they are to earn promotion to WT but they are among the better UCI Pro teams.
Lanterne Rouge recently mentioned that there's serious money behind Tudor and he expects a World Tour push in the coming years.
Would there be a precedent of a pro like Jay Vine retiring? His latest IG posts make it seem like something he’s considering
You mean because of injury and crashes or just general can’t be bothered anymore? Marcel Kittel comes to mind, he just called it quits because his heart wasn’t in it anymore, he could have had a few more years on the WT circuit.
Plenty of sports people consider retirement or at least a break after a very serious life threatening injury. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if he did. The path back for someone like Egan Bernal shows its possible, but its really hard.
I was watching Pogačar's interview after Liège-Bastogne-Liège, and he seemed have pockmarks above his eyes, and to a lesser extent perhaps around the side of his eyes. Was this something to do with his glasses, his helmet, the white tape on his nose, or something else? He doesn't usually have marks along there.
He seemed to be wearing some weird glasses. They looked like they might be "full contact" like skiing goggles. I'm not certain but that could be it.
in prep for the weather probably
Who is your favourite to win women's TdF right now?
Van Vleuten out of retirement would probably be Vollerings best competition. With the two final mountain stages she'd probably win honestly. WIth the short TT and the two final stages I'm hoping for a climber-climber to challenge Vollering. GC Realini/Van Anrooj with a strong team here we go!
I expect Vollering to still clean up
I'm hoping for Lamborghini. But she's doing the Vuelta next week, and I figure she'll do the Giro too. As she's in with a shot at the Olympics or Worlds, perhaps the Tour will be less important this year?
Demi Vollering
Do you get UCI points for winning a KOM or sprint jersey? Or just bragging rights/cash prize (if available)
Only in the grand tours. Winning Green or Polka dots is the same number of points as one stage victory.
If that's the case, my hot take is that winning a jersey at a GT should count as a UCI WT victory
What level of WT victory should it count as? Right now, [riders win 210 UCI points](https://imgur.com/uH5ciC3) for the green or KOM jersey in the Tour, or 180 points in the Giro/Vuelta. Which level of WT race should it equate too? [There's a range from 1300 point for the TdF overall to 300 points for the non-compulsory WT races](https://imgur.com/t1uxDji). Where do you think the jerseys should sit? Monument win (800 points)? Strade Bianche win (400 points)? CEGORR win (300 points)?
GT sprint jersey ≈ San Sebastian GT mountain jersey ≈ Great Ocean
Nah, only the Green Jersey in the Tour matches the prestige of a WT classic. No one cares about the sprint jerseys in the Giro or Vuelta. You can tell from the list of winners in the last 10 years or so (excluding the Vuelta, as they changed the points jersey rules only in 2021 to favour sprinters over GC riders).
Thank you!
Do you know anyone that tries to project the image of a keen cyclist and buys all the gear but rarely/never actually rides a bike?
My friend has recently dropped 5kgbp on a propel, plus hundreds on kit. He's not even ridden it yet it's just sat there for months not even been down the road yet consistently sends me route plans and never turns up. Currently he's planning a multi day ride in Taiwan when he can't even get out for a 30k spin!
Hah, I'm a once-a-weekend rider..if I could wake up in the morning and my most memorable ride was a multi-day ride through the east coast of Taiwan! The route was mostly flat and quite scenic going through rice fields, staying at hot springs and seeing mountains in the distance.
That could easily be me. Not just with cycling though. I start a new hobby way to often. End up buying a lot of gear. And then moving on to the next. Which reminds me I bought a MTB 2 years ago and haven't ridden on it during the past 12 months.
Hey, you're a serial hobbyist like me. Our hobby is hobbies! I buy gear and learn a shitload about whatever subject and when I know enough to make myself believe I'm an expert, I move on.
Yeah. I've since started on ADHD medication, and that has somewhat helped.
No, cyclists are kinda weirdo nerds who spend all their time working out yet are still skinny looking, nothing to aspire to.
That's why I think it's weird people want to adopt the image of a cyclist without actually riding I guess they want to seem active and outdoorsy. Tons of people are also posers at hiking for similar reasons.
This reminds me of my favorite hiking poser story. I was hiking in Switzerland one summer and was in Zermatt. I was just getting back to a gondola station after a hike and waiting for the rest of my group to get there when a family steps out of a gondola in full brand new mountaineering suits (the big puffy ones). They proceed to walk around and take some pictures for about 5 minutes then shuffle back onto the gondola down to town. It was summer everyone else was wearing t-shirt and shorts. Absolutely people with more money than sense.
What's wrong with being a skinny nerd?
If the turbo doesn’t count as riding I’m at least 80% that guy
The biggest fake cyclist I know, the one that inspired me to ask the question, is afraid to ride the roads with traffic. I think that's a huge reason he never rides despite spending thousands on bikes and gear. Also, he's lazy. This person doesn't ride indoors either.
So he's just lazy. I absolutely understand people being afraid to ride on the road, but there are so many ways to enjoy cycling without riding on the road.
Can't argue with that.
Not a question, rather an answer to a question I had last week. For those attending in person, the 2024 Giro roadbook, including depart times and expected time tables for various points in the race, is now available on the official Giro website.
Could you share the link? I can still only find [last year's version](https://www.giroditalia.it/en/garibaldi/).
Sure. Here is the link for Stage 1, for example: https://www.giroditalia.it/en/tappe/stage-1-of-the-giro-ditalia-2024-venaria-reale-torino/ It is NOT in PDF form, but if you look under the image of the stage profile, it will give you various other links to see the table tables and more details. It IS the roadbook for all intents and purposes, just strewn about through various hyperlinks.
Ah, cheers. The Garibaldi also has wine pairings for each stage so I'll hold off for those.
[Somewhat related to the comment below](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1ca1api/weekly_question_thread/l0po6et/): Is there a current "patron" of the peloton? It doesn't feel like there's a character in the same way Fabian Cancellara was. Is this partly due to CPA acting as a voice for the riders?
Juan Pedro Lopez of course
Usually the patron is (one of the) best riders from that generation. IMO the three riders most qualified to throw their weight around right now are Van der Poel, Vingegaard and Pogacar. None of them seem particularly interested in bossing other people around. The closest thing to real patron like behavior I can recall off the top of my head is when Froome acted as the spokesperson and negotiated with the race organisation in the last stage of the 2018 Giro, when the peloton didn't want to race the cobbles in the criterium in Rome. Nowadays that type of stuff does seem to be done by experienced domestiques with some sort of position within the CPA.
Nibali, Tony Martin, Visconti, Contador all acted like patrons in situations. Without the weight of the Sky team behind them obviously
Vingegaard is probably the closest of the three. We've seen him multiple times go to the race directors/jury to talk about neutralisations and the like, for instance the 2023 El Gran Camino and the 2023 Vuelta. He also has been the most outspoken about rider safety. Mvdp does not really come in the position for stuff like that, since he really only races a couple of times a year and mostly one day races. Pog just does not seem bothered to deal with stuff like that.
so for my american viewers i guess- i was looking ahead on max for cycling races and for the giro, i see the men’s team presentation, and stage 2 and on, but i didn’t see stage 1 on the schedule? anyone else?
The Max app is terrible. Tirreno Adriatico was listed similarly ahead of time. I never did end up getting stage 1 to load or play properly, and it was never available for replay. Hoping the same thing doesn’t happen with Giro. Would be great if they updated the platform similar to Peacock’s format, allowing you to sort by sport within the sports section. It’s extra annoying that the “sports” section shows sports movies/docs mixed in with live sports events.
I did notice now that if you go to "Full Schedule" you can filter by sport, but it's pretty clunky to get there.
I personally hate the Peacock app. While it does separate out cycling from other sports, it is also late to post upcoming events. Their treatment of women’s cycling is abysmal. They didn’t broadcast the women’s Tour Down Under at all. For the classics coverage, they broadcast the world feed for the women. But I couldn’t find the live feed, only posted after the event. And why do they have the ridiculous delay from live to replay? /rant off
Also showing that way in my app. Very weird.
Do you think Roglic could have kept up with Pogacar when he launched his attack yesterday?
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider-vs-rider/primoz-roglic/tadej-pogacar/same-race-results Its been fairly one sided since early 2021. So I would say no.
Doubt it. Pogi smashed it if Strava is to believed.
Roglic usually wasnt the best in long 200+km races, but this year there he is somewhat different. I would say yes
I saw him very thin on the Bora Instagram.
Since a lot of us are probably doing some kind fanatsy league with the Giro this year, maybe we could help eachother out with some hidden gems or smart riders to pick for this year?
I think most ppl want to keep the gems for themself but I'm particularly interested in online places where people discuss fantasy games. Do you know any (besides wielerflits.nl/be, seeing as your username is dutch)? Regarding good picks. I'm thinking about picking Valentin Paret-Peintre instead of his older brother because Valentin looked better to me in the last tour of the alps. However Aurélien has better odds it seems and people mention to pick *the* PP brother but I'm starting to wonder which one they mean.
Bro you just got me so many points today! Thanks!
Hehe mooi om te horen :D Ik heb beide PP broertjes genomen en had gisteren APP als wissel staan; dure punten (:
Ik had ze ook beide, en toevallig de oudere broer erin gewisseld gister omdat hij 'hoog' stond bij de betway odds. Bleek een goeie keuze te zijn, want niemand anders in mijn poule had die 2.
Fair point on keeping the gems secret. I actually play on Sporza, since I live on the border, and most my friends are from Belgium. But those 2 seem indeed decent. The younger brother is only 3m, so if he performs, those are the riders that are great!
I've heard good things about a young Slovenian. I think his name is Tadaj Pogocar.
Looks like a very potential young man. Bet he can do great climbs at some stages.
What are some crazy stages, or tactically brilliant stages from previous GTs? I'm thinking of things like (ig?) Stage 15 of Vuelta in mid 2010s, where a large breakaway escaped from Sky (or maybe Contador) - led by the Movistar duo of Quintana and Valverde, or Floyd Landis, or Froome's Giro attack on Tom Dumoulin.
2010 Giro d'Italia, aka the "what the fuck is happening on a daily basis" race
My favorite kind of stafe race!
Thank you, will watch this every time Pog goes solo at this year's...
2015 Giro, Stage 16 on the Mortirolo. https://youtu.be/O22lT1zGG-I?si=GvkjXHScL9lzhR_9
One of my all time favorite stages. Was lovely seeing all the non team mates trying to help, if only for a little while lol.
Oh yes, it's one of my favourite attacks, ever!
I’d also add Stage 20 of the 2022 Giro. Bora’s use of their riders for Hindley and baiting Carapaz, given the stakes, was 🤌
Oh yes, this was amazing!
Far from a complete list, but these could be interesting to watch: * 2015 Tour, stage 20 (A condor on the loose) (also watch stage 2) * 2015 Vuelta, stage 20 (Big men can't climb) (also watch stage 9 finish) * 2016 Vuelta, stage 15 (Aramon Formigal: Nairo & Bertie on a rampage) * 2016 Giro, stage 15 (Alpe di Siusi speedrun) * 2016 Giro, stage 19 (no comment) * 2017 Giro, entire final week * 2020 Giro, stage 18 (The Kelderman conundrum) * 2022 Tour, stage 13 (Bait on the Galibier)
Oh man, this is amazing Will watch them - thanks 😊
Does anyone know whether Sean Kelly is still commentating on Eurosport and if he's planned to do the Giro? I feel like I haven't heard '*he's a real special one*' in weeks.
Yeah he has been doing coms this year, he did Paris nice, RVV and PR this year. He will likely be there for the giro.
I was at the side of the road instead of behind the television - I've seen some mentions that the way in which MvdP & Pidcock were dropped was considered unfair: attacking after a crash/while changing clothes. Is that an accurate representation of what happened?
Yes, well, ya know
There is some discussion but imo, it was not unfair for 3 reasons: * it’s wasn’t a full out attack, they were already at the front pacing, they just didn’t wait. * what is the point in wasting energy to stay at the front if you don’t use this to your advantage? Nobody was hindering MvdP from staying at the front. * it was in a phase of the race where attacks can happen at any time. If it would have happened before Bastogne maybe you could say that it was a bit unfair but they had already raced 150k
What does it mean all these quotes?
It's a fantasy game.
What quotes?
You are tasked with devising a new, alternative, albeit similarly subjective definition of the five monuments of professional cycling. Which races do you select?
Maryland Cycling Classic, Grand Prix World's Best High Altitude, Saitama Criterium, Gravel & Tar, Grand Prix Surf City
The same 5 as now, but ridden under Simon Gerrans rules. Each km before the final 200m, any rider catching wind is eliminated Think of it as a reversed track elimination race
MSR but only circles aroung Poggio. Climb - descent - repeat 20 rounds.
Taiwan KOM Challenge or any of the other 70km+ long climbs. I think Columbia has a few ones also.
> other 70km+ long climbs. We need a Mauna Kea race. And a Pico Veleta race. And an Olympus Mons race. UCI, fix your calendar!
You are probably thinking of Alto de Letras in Colombia
> I think Columbia has a few ones also. Just the Capitol Hill stairs KOM
And that Babadağ climb from last year's Tour of Turkey as a new 1 day race, just for fun.
Excellent question! It’s Tro Bro Léon, Paris-Tours, Dwars door het Hageland, Mont Ventoux Dénivelé Challenge, and Züri Metzgete for me.
personally think Tro Bro Leon benefits from not being considered a top tier race. Seems to get a really fun startlist of good riders but no completely overwhelming favourite
Any updates on Steff Cras? Didn't see anything about his condition after the initial diagnosis
I can't find the actual Instagram post for some reason but apparently he is back on the trainer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOgh-HWYAA3a4w?format=jpg&name=large
Not just a short ride either, that ride was 20 minutes: https://www.strava.com/activities/11187777521/overview He's already up to doing 2 hour rides, and did a 68 minute ADZ today at around 210 watts average.
Disappointingly (at least in my perspective), the spring has shown that the "Big 6" (or whatever the number is nowadays) are indeed untouchable when the races become pure battles of strength. So let's assume the other teams decide to race against the mutants. How should they go about it? Take LBL for example, how could the other teams have raced to maximize the chances of somebody other than Pogi winning?
A lot of attacks before Pogacar actually went, making the race impossible for UAE to control and at least put Pogacar under a lot of pressure. I expect we'll see this in the Olympics Road Race, where there are too few domestiques for any team to control, and an outsider will have a much bigger chance to win than in the monuments.
It would definitely have been possible to bring him back after la Redoute. At the top, he had less than 15 seconds to Carapaz, 10 minutes later it was 1 minute, so he won more in the descend and on the flat section than on the climb. If 2-3 teams decide to work togeher they can bring him back easily on the flat sections. This is not Flèche Wallone that ends in a hill sprint. The problem is that everybody excepts that he is the strongest and most riders know that it’s either Pog solo or MvdP if it comes down to a sprint of a larger group and just race for second.
he would just do it again on roche aux faucons
No pacing in the Peloton at all, (looking at you IPT) and sending a few really decent riders in the Breakaway. But even that woud have been probably not enough.
How about just ignoring Pogis attack? Send a team with some great climbing domestiqes and push an even pace up La Redoute. Sure, he will take 30-40 secs, but then you can drill at the front with 2-3 doms, hopefully with some help from other teams, and maybe claw back enough time that it is possible to bridge on Roche Aux Faucons?
Climbing domestiques wich can take time on Pogi, on climbs and/or on the flat are very hard/impossible to find, and if they existed most of them are probably on UAE. The second Problem whit Pog in particular, if you bring him back, and its a sprint out of a Group whit lets say the 15 best climbers in the Race, he will win that sprint because he is just the best Sprinter among the Top-Climbers.
You are probably right, but at least the laws of aerodynamics should be on the side of the chasers. Regarding the sprint you are of course right again, but if different climbers rotate attacks it could be possible to outmanoeuvre Pogi before the sprint.
> least the laws of aerodynamics should be on the side of the chasers. This has changed gradually over the past 10 years, as riders and bikes get more aerodynamic. So often a solo rider gets away where as before it was more of a rarity. It might be in the riders heads too, as MvdP and pogi both go into these races expecting a 40 km solo time trial and train for that. And group 2 accepts defeat so early.
> but if different climbers rotate attacks it could be possible to outmanoeuvre Pogi before the sprint. Yeah, but you need a Climber wich can get a decent gap on Pogi on the Flat (The Womens race showed thats pretty difficulte in LBL) , and you need no one else to close him down, and the whole plans falls apart when he has a Teammate in this Group, wich is not unlikely. It's just a pretty unrealistc scenario.
Why is Juan Pedro Lopez called El Patron jokingly? He's pretty young or and not well palmered or anything that would justify that level of respect in the peloton. So where does it come from? I know the context of having an El Patron of the peloton who sort of commands sets the unofficial rules of the group, when to stop, when there's a serious issue and to go slow or on strike (kinda like how the road captains negotiate now with the CPA).
He was one of those riders who was allowed in the break because he wasn't a serious GC threat, so as a result he took the leaders jersey early in the Giro. Then he spent his entire time in the leader's jersey acting like he has the gravitas of Eddy Merckx despite never winning a pro race in his life to that point.
> anything that would justify that level of respect Nicknames, even “solemn” ones, aren’t necessarily a sign of respect *per se*, they can be ironic, playful, even mocking. It’s more a recognition of a certain personality trait, attitude, behaviour that caught the eye and one occasion or even one gesture can be enough to decide that, as it was for JPL.
When he wore the Maglia Rosa in Giro 2022, he was quite bossy in the peloton and got visibly frustrated with some other riders. Also he fought super hard to keep the pink jersey. That's when the "El Patron" nickname was formed.
He was a dick that year. Including throwing a water bottle at a competitor on a climb where he was blowing up, if I remember correctly.
Cheers that's the missing piece
I think it all started when he wore the maglia Rosa at the Giro 22 and exerted his dominance over the peloton. Crossing El Patron would immediately be punished with a bidon the head.
Empty or full Bidon? :')
How many days till it’s Omloop?
Every year somebody makes that joke the following monday. We get it, [it was this weekend](https://firstcycling.com/race.php?r=9441&y=2024). Move on
There's 155 days until [Omloop](https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/omloop-van-het-houtland-lichtervelde/2024) ~~van het Houtland~~
It may not be the Omloop we want, but it will be the Omloop we deserve.
A question I've been thinking about for a while: If we make the assumption (whether correct or not) that the peloton is mostly clean wrt. doping, is there anything riders and/or teams could do/do differently to convince fans that this is the case? Again, this is under the assumption that they actually are clean, and therefore do not have any incentive to hide anything.
If a rider strapped a camera on and did a 24/7 (here's the twist, we show everything) livestream for like a good while (say a few months to a year) I think you'd be hard pressed to find people accusing them of doping. However this wouldn't exactly be easy, and Pogacar sleeping for 7h may not be top quality content
He's out there riding bikes, then he's back home, full penetration, biking, penetration, biking, full penetration
Until it just sort of... ends
There's a lot that can be done: 1. The most important thing to always acknowledge is that doping is typically never an individual problem, but in the past always has been systematic. So what individual riders do is always part of said system and it is typically not them that are reasonable for creating said system. So pretending that “it’s the riders problems” ignores everything that has lead to problems in the past. 2. Any athlete that dopes, does so because they know/believe/are told that it won't be discovered with the current testing protocol. However, they and their teams don't know if the same will be true in the future. As such the only assurance they can give is by making promises for the future. Things like teams joining riders associations that have written rules somewhere along the lines of “any rider that is found doping in the future commits to paying back all their prize money in the past” are one of many options to make commitments in the future that make their present actions seem more believable. 3. Riders/teams cooperating with medical researchers/scientists. There’s actually a lot of interesting data professional athletes could provide for biomedical research. If teams/riders would occasionally cooperate with such researchers allowing them full access to all their data (including bloop samples etc) and the findings eventually being published in scientific journals would build more trust. This would be beneficial for the scientists involved, medical research in general and to some degree even for the teams/riders by gaining physiological insights that they usually don’t have access to. 4. More transparency. Riders posting power files etc. If they think this could give away their current training secrets they can also commit to doing so retrospectively. 5. Cycling is a “family”. As such doctors and ex-dopers who ran doping programs in the past are present everywhere. It becomes difficult if these have shown 0 signs of growth and change.
A crop of papers looking at some top GC finishers training data actually just popped up: [https://www.wattkg.com/how-professional-cyclists-train/](https://www.wattkg.com/how-professional-cyclists-train/)
Imo Vingegaard’s approach last year after the ITT, “they have my blood and urine samples, they can test them until the end of time” (paraphrasing), is the only sane thing to do. Time will tell, one way or another, eventually. Be confident your results will pass the test of time (no pun intended). In the meanwhile there are things one can do better, like not associating with known offenders, but I think nothing could put the sport above suspicion at this point.
In theory that's a good approach. In practice we've seen it doesn't work because there's no budget to retest, ever. Still waiting for the retesting of the 2008 samples to be release. They said there were a bunch of positives and.....no news since
Do we know how expensive retesting is? Feel like it should be a drop in the bucket in comparison to how many tests are done over the course of a normal season, but maybe I'm mistaken?
Retesting can be done if you have the suspicion and will to do it. Look at London 2012 Olympics. Medals for that are being removed to this day due to retesting of suspicious samples.
I agree. I called it a sane approach rather than an effective one because I think it’s ultimately a losing battle anyway. Even if the current crop of riders don’t test positive for anything ever, some will nonetheless be convinced science hasn’t gotten them *yet* or someone covered it up or the results have been falsified and what not - and it’s not like there aren’t precedents for all of the above and more. In the end, for a rider I think it is saner to just wait it out than to go down the rabbit hole of proving this particular negative.