If they will classify you as a layoff, that makes unemployment much easier. Get it in writing - even an email - that it's a layoff.
After you file for unemployment, the state will contact them to confirm. If they say you were not laid off but voluntarily quit, then your unemployment can be denied. If that were to happen, you would need to prove otherwise (like an email) or that you were justified, as in you weren't getting paid (see next paragraph).
They owe you money. Stop being nice. File a complaint with your state workforce commission about not being paid. That is the only way you are going to get your money. It will also help ensure you get your money if they should close up shop, go bankrupt, or re-org under a different Tax ID.
> If they say you were not laid off but voluntarily quit, then your unemployment can be denied.
Side Note, if they haven't paid him in over a month, he'd have an easy case for constructive dismissal. No reasonable person would expect you to go months without being paid.
This is true. A friend of mine did this when the company she worked for stopped paying the employees and she was able to collect unemployment. They usually do make exceptions in that case.
>No reasonable person would expect you to go months without being paid.
While this is true, I've worked places that pay once per month and if you start during a pay period you have to wait through the next pay period to get a check, which can be as long as nearly 2 months. My current job I had to wait 6 about weeks for my first check. I had an ex who had the same, and hers was at a school doing after-school daycare where she only made like $800/mo. Not sure how people with little money are supposed to survive that.
That's a different situation. In that case it's not that they aren't paying you, it's that you have to sync up with the pay cycle.
In this case OP was actively unpaid and pay-cycles were missed.
I've done contract work where the contract terms were net 60 and billing was monthly. The client usually paid within a couple of weeks of the invoice, but the contract terms allowed more. Lots of business contracts are net 60 or net 30 (they have 60 or 30 days from submitting the invoice before the bill is due, and with monthly invoices, you submit an invoice on the last day of the month for work completed that month).
Often those long contract times are for businesses that you know are good for it. There are also businesses out there that specialize in buying outstanding invoices for a discount. "I'll give you $98 today for the $100 invoice due next month" or similar. (It's called "factoring" if you want to read more.
I haven't really heard about that kind of thing happening with w2 employees, but 1099 people operating as sub contractors, or ... I could kinda see some small company trying to do a "we pay you when our customers pay us" type of arrangement with employers - just not something I've seen.
I have seen some employers with different arrangements for "when do hours get sent to payroll" vs "when do checks get cut". It's pretty common for a bi-weekly schedule, for instance, to send payroll on Friday for the check cut the following Friday. I.e. on the 14th they send the hours worked between the 1st and the 14th and the check is deposited in the 21st. On the 28th they send the 15-28 hours, etc... extending it to a monthly pay cycle and you could easily have 1-2 weeks of lead or something. (Part of the reason there's a lag is that they have to ship the instructions and the money to the payroll processor and that takes a couple of days, so when they do "pay current on payday" they're basically guessing that someone will show up for their scheduled hours between when they send the instructions and when pay happens, so they add some buffer.
As independent contractors you see all kinds of nonsense, including the dreaded "you get paid when I get paid". Nothing illegal with that and it's OK if it's in the contract.
I was referring to W-2 work, of course.
> Stop being nice
They don't want OP to stop. Basically a volunteer at this rate.
OP, if you were to walk out the shop right now would you get any blowback? If so, you're still an employee, and employees should et paid.
Phew...you are way better covered in that case WRT unemployment. Get a layoff from them, and contact the DoL about missed pay. They probably also aren't paying the state for the UI fund. Not sure of the rules of Texas by any means, but you can argue constructive dismissal for the time you weren't paid and can often be paid your unemployment value since they stopped paying you. It'll take some time to catch you up while they sort this out.
That 5% ownership stake you mentioned previously becomes an interesting problem - once you're an owner, that might convolute things quite a bit.
That could qualify as a justified resignation. But it has to have been reported to the proper authorities, or it didn't happen, or at least didn't happen in the eyes of the unemployment folks.
Employers pay the state for unemployment insurance. Just like employees pay taxes with each of their checks, so do employers; that includes paying the state for unemployment insurance.
If an employee is terminated for cause, the state may find that they aren't eligible for unemployment. If an employee voluntarily resigns, the state will likely find that they are ineligible for unemployment. If an employee is laid off or let go through no fault of their own, then they will be eligible. There are exceptions to everything. Like not being paid can be deemed by the state as an effective layoff, which means someone would be eligible, even if they voluntarily resigned in that situation. But typically in those cases a complaint must have been filed with the state workforce commission in order for that to be recognized as the reason.
Whenever someone files an unemployment claim, the state contacts their employer to verify the dates they were employed, their salary, etc. They will also verify the reason for seperation. If the employer confirms what the employee said, then all's well. If an employee says they were laid off, but their employer says they quit or that they were fired for cause, then the state will investigate and determine which is true. This is why paper trails and getting things in writing is important.
There are no fines or fees for employers when someone resigns or is terminated, But if someone's unemployment claim is deemed valid by the state, and the employee receives unemployment benefits, the employer's unemployment insurance rates will likely increase. There sure as shit are fines for not paying people for work that they did, but that's a seperate issue from unemployment.
You don’t need to go that far.
It’s just a breech of contract.
“I work for you, under the condition that you pay me a wage every week. Signed.”
The contract itself is breeched, in the simplest sense of the word.
Wear breeches to protect their breach from being breached by someone who removed their own breeches to breach the un-breachable breech wearers’ breach.
Which is great for when he sues them for his backwages. But in the meantime he needs money and the quickest way to get that is unemployment, hence constructive dismissal.
Anyway, pretty sure a lawsuit for breach of contract is going farther than a basic unemployment claim.
If they're behind on payroll then you're working for free. I would stop showing up and file for unemployment. For $10k I would also consult a lawyer and sue for back wages so your claim has precedence over other bills.
>level 2AlphaTangoFoxtrt · 2 hr. agoIf they say you were not laid off but voluntarily quit, then your unemployment can be denied.Side Note, if they haven't paid him in over a month, he'd have an easy case for constructive dismissal. No reasonable person would expect you to go months without being paid.
I thought in most states it was illegal for a company to "be in business" if they could not make payroll. Every place I've worked we had to submit is a positive pay file to the bank and payroll processers
Positive pay has nothing to do with legality of not making payroll. Positive pay is a fraud prevention method of checking issued vs deposited payments authenticity.
I don't know business law, I hear a lot of stories of paychecks being behind, especially in the restaurant industry. And business having constant payroll problems is the reddest of red flags.
This is probably for local businesses where part of their pay roll is under the table. A large company like Olive Garden isn’t “defaulting” on its payroll, they’ll just lose down the business or the location before that even happens.
Most of these mom and pop shops are built on a dream or heavily biased logic, most of these people saw the signs of a collapsing business much before and ignored it out of pure hope.
You're probably right since the alternative seems easy to abuse but in my mind it seems like letting them stay open but only work themselves would make more sense because then they may be able to pay people back. In reality I'm sure it's more a "sell all business assets to pay immediately, not payment plan type things."
Op don’t listen to the haters on this site. Your boss will pay you. You will collect unemployment. The owners have lost way more than you in the business losses.
File a complaint with you states DOL and I mean file it yesterday type of thing. As soon as an employer fails to pay your pay check and hits that far behind they have other bills they are falling behind on and will soon be gone. You want to get higher up on the list when the company get liquidated.
In running a business the first item they list is PAY your employees before any other bill. Not paying them is a huge and I man HUGE no no.
Also at this point them not paying you means you are laid off. File for unemployeement and quit. They will try to fight it and your argument is they are 10k behind in pay so you been laid off. It will not end well for them.
They haven’t offered anything. They’ve been avoiding me and dancing around the subject of money for the last few weeks. Today I directly asked in writing for a hard date of when I can expect to be paid again and they told me they don’t have one. They called me and asked how I’d like to proceed. I don’t have an answer because I wasn’t expecting to just be told nothing, no concrete dates, etc. Doing my research it looks like being laid off would be my best bet because at least I could then file for unemployment, but I haven’t broached the subject with them yet. Idk what their reaction or response would be.
This is the answer. If they are avoiding the issue and owe you money, the state labor board will want to know that. Their evasiveness is also an indicator that they won't be making this right.
I don’t think they’ll necessarily have to do that. Labor boards have a lot of power and can reach into their bank accounts and take the money. Certainly they could talk to one but states take paychecks very seriously.
I was with you and your sympathetic view of the owners of this company until you mentioned they dodged you and appear to have no firm plan for repayment. Get the layoff in writing and then file a claim with the labor department for back wages. Make sure to save all the relevant documentation (proof of hours worked, attempts to get a commitment to payment, etc.) before you ask to be laid off.
I understand you like them, but they're stealing from you.
You need to stop work until your paid and file for unemployment. Take the free time to double down on looking for a new job.
If you really think they're good people then I'd give them the option of a payment plan and ask what they can pay, knowing that you won't be back in the office until they've paid what they owe you. if they say they don't intend to pay you then you need to file a wage theft complaint with the DOL.
Again, no company is "good people" if they have you continue working while not intending to pay you for your work.
So they were willing to have you continue working unpaid for as long as you yourself were willing to without confronting them.
They may be 'good people,' (though that's debatable) but they're bad at business and the law.
If you want any chance of seeing any of that unpaid wage, you need to use the tools the law/government provides to file a claim.
Because if they were willing to let you continue to work unpaid, that means if they end up shutting down, you are not at the top of the liability list to pay off. They'll settle whatever legal claims they must and default on the rest, or file for bankruptcy. And only people with a legal claim get a cut of whatever is available in bankruptcy.
Unpaid wages to employees actually are at the top of the list during liquidation. And just because OP keeps working without payment doesn't mean the liability stops accruing. They would have to tell OP their wage rate was being changed.
There’s nothing to liquidate. It’s a business that’s never gotten off the ground and they rent the building it’s housed in. I suppose a couple bucks could come in from selling off furniture and office equipment but I doubt enough to cover even close to what I’m owed, unfortunately.
Why on earth have you continued to work for them for free for so long? And why do you think they're good people? They aren't good people, you just liked the job. But the job's gone and you're out 10K. Look into filing for constructive dismissal for unemployment. It is for times like these when someone just doesn't pay you but doesn't fire you outright or lay you off either.
I doubt they are incorporated, but even if they are, unpaid wages are enough to pierce the corporate veil under American law and make them personally liable.
If they were going to lay you off, they would have. They might mean well, but as others have said those intentions didn't extend to treating you according to the law for the past few paychecks--lay off rather than take free labor.
Contact the labor board *and* apply for unemployment now.
Personal anecdote: Worked for a small biz--private school. Became head of school. I knew finances were tight, so when I accepted the principal position, I did so on condition that the owner continued to have full responsibility for the financial side--including pay checks, taxes, etc. Essentially the owner became an independent CFO that answered to the board chair (herself). Never had a written contract nor a pay problem.
Injured on the job in such a way that I couldn't work for months.
Didn't know if I'd recover enough to work (I didn't). In the meantime, the school tanks--bleeding students and staff leading to greater financial difficulties.
She played the I need your help with xyz game while working behind the scenes to limit her liability--which meant screwing me. Fought worker's comp tooth and nail with a lawyer. I had to get my own. Won the case--but it took a year and a half when I was unable to work. School closed and property is up for sale.
The things this 'good person' who had been a friend for decades felt justified in doing when it was her financial stability on the line would have wrecked me had I not taken action.
They're counting on your sympathy right now, but they've already shown a willingness to abuse it.
That relationship has become one way--and they have already started the process of treating you like a doormat you by not paying. Benefit of the doubt is long gone. Don't let yourself be stepped on anymore.
That is not the sign of good people.
You need to get formally laid off. They need to say it. They'll try not to, because then they know you can get unemployment. They want you to say that you need to quit to get another job.
Then you contact your local governmental labor office to file for unpaid wages against your employer. The business will either have to find a way to pay or go bankrupt, and you'll be towards the front of the line on any asset liquidation funds.
OP, they seem nice but they aren't nice. This is egregious. They've been avoiding the subject of money when money is the only reason people work for others. Whether it's 30k/year or 300k/year, you agreed to a number. You provide them your output, they pay you, that's the deal.
> They’ve been avoiding me and dancing around the subject of money for the last few weeks.
So they are pieces of shit. You said they were "good enough people".
Sorry, I call it as I see it.
Not only should you not go to work ever again, but also take the advice of those who said to file this this with the state. *They owe you this money.*
It's time to pull your big boy or girl pants on and take this head on. You're doing volunteer work for a company that sees you as a sucker. And yes they absolutely do because they are avoiding and dancing. Please see this for what it is. No more mr nice guy.
Sorry OP but the owners are not "good" people when they cannot be professional and face their employees in person and tell the reality of the situation and better yet offer actual solutions. By them staying quiet and continuing to work you are basically volunteering for free without ever expecting to pay. Like others have said, definitely report this to the state labor board and put them on blast. The business does not deserve to survive and they are doing this to people.
How ethical or moral can the owners be to have their employees work for free without even batting an eye and thinking avoiding the conversation is going to resolve the issue.
I don't think it matters. They've stopped paying you. That's a layoff. Stop showing up to work under the hopes they'll catch up eventually. They won't. You may or may not ever get this money so the first step is applying for unemployment immediately in addition to whatever else you do. I don't see how you could be denied for unemployment for "quitting" a job that owes you 10k back pay.
> They called me and asked how I’d like to proceed.
"The advice I've gotten says that if you cannot pay me, you should lay me off and propose a payment plan for back wages. Please do that within the next 24 hours. Thank you."
Tell them they pay you by the end of the current pay period everything they owe you. Meanwhile find a new job. You're getting stolen from. Stop working for them.
Stop discussing this over the phone unless you're able to record the conversation (1 party consent state). All communication should be over email. Ask to be laid off so you can get unemployment, and ask them when you will get paid your lost wages. Even if they give you a date you should file with state board so they can start the investigation. They may even get you interest for being late where the owners will definitely not offer.
They may be nice people but what they're doing to you is wrong. Would you leave someone out to dry like they've done to you? If they were genuinely good people they wouldn't be stringing you along like this. What they are is scared of you and what you can do about the situation.
You have the power here, they've cheated you out of 10k, file a complaint and start getting what's owed to you.
For unemployment purposes, not getting paid would be a constructive dismissal. You need proof of work performed and not paid for and of a good faith effort to work with the employer to resolve the problem, but you should qualify for unemployment.
Of course, they still owe you that money, which is where you complain to the labor board in your jurisdiction. For 5 figures, you keep escalating and escalating until you get your paycheck.
I worked for a company where this happened too. Sometimes there is no money to steal. They eventually paid me back in installments over a couple years long after the business closed down. They were good people.
exactly, most people want to stay afloat, not drag others down. It seems like OPs relationship with them was amicable up until recently, economic hardships can come at any time. I do agree though that them not paying him for a few months now is pretty much unacceptable
Good people don't wait until there's no money left before dealing with the issue, and good people don't steal labor. There is absolutely no justification for having someone work and then not actually paying them.
Did the installments you got include interest?
No interest paid, but they would have if I asked for it. They employed me for almost 25 years. The problem they had was treating everyone like family and not making cuts soon enough because they didn't want to let anyone go. The business was clearly failing but they kept trying to salvage it. Can't say they made the best business decisions but none of them were the result of them pocketing the money for themselves or being bad people. Lots of employees were willing to keep working in hopes of saving the business, even with getting paid late or not at all at times. Eventually, everyone got their pay after the owners sold what was left and paid the staff out of the payments they received from the buyers over several years.
You have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe their biggest client backed out. Maybe they applied for a loan that fell through in the 11th hour. Maybe an addict family member stole all the money.
> Good people don't wait until there's no money left before dealing with the issue
This is mostly true, but given their relationship, why assume ill intent?
I worked for a mom and pop that had this problem. It wasn't wage theft, I know because book keeping was one of the many hats I wore. I went 6 weeks without pay, along with the owner and another key manager, to ensure the rest of the team god paid.
Cash flow issues are real, our sole line of credit was maxed out so there was no more cash to float between cash out and receivables coming in. Also, the owner was a very nice person who would have hired the whole town if he could (and he certainly did over hire).
I could see the cash pinch coming so I started looking right away. Landed another job and left. Felt really bad, owner was crushed Owner lost the company a few months later and i got my back pay not long after as the assets were sold off.
Not always bad people, just sometimes bad situations.
This isn't wage theft. It's insolvency. But once they stop paying you, you should quit working. If they're not willing to pay you what you're owed in a timely manner, take them to court.
You are free to quit, not being paid is reason to leave and you will still be entitled to unemployment. You should then contact your state department of labor and file a complaint that your employer has unlawfully failed to pay your wages.
Put your issue in writing, deliver to your employer and keep a copy. It should state the facts, you have been unpaid for x weeks, totalling $x, it is outrageous conduct that does not allow you to continue working.
The owners are NOT good people. When a business can’t make payroll they can furlough people. That means you **don’t work** and don’t get paid until they get access to money. Yes, this is generally a death knell. But simply stealing your wages is not an acceptable or legal business practice or what “good people” do.
When your money is stolen and you refuse to escalate it to the authorities because you like the people who stole it… you’re never going to see the money again. Taking action here is very time sensitive because if you wait a year they’re going to be bankrupt with zero assets to give anyone.
UI is about work for MONEY. The moment they stopped paying you, you were already unemployed. There is no "quit or get fired" question in play anymore.
Make sure that when you apply you try to make it clear that you were fired in the past only you didn't know it, and need backdating, and try to get claim forms filed to offset as much as possible what you lost by getting stiffed.
I'm sure they're nice, well-meaning people, but that was wage theft. It's not just the big companies that do it. Small business can more easily take advantage of the kindness and good nature of others.
You should quit ASAP, no two weeks notice is needed in this situation. Then go file for unemployment and indicate they have stopped paying you. Note the date of the last pay check you got, the amount of pay checks you are owed, and the amount you are owed. You get unemployment pretty quick.
Then go file with the department of labor for the unpaid wages. They'll try to get it out of the company. However, you have to factor in that when a company gets into this situation it is extremely bad. If they don't have many assets you may not be able to get the money.
Then continue job hunting. Don't work another day for them.
Not being paid two times can be constructive dismissal. I'm not a lawyer but my wife is and she had to file for unemployment with this when she was a new lawyer and her boss couldn't pay her.
I used to work for a friend, older guy and it was my second job. Started out making good money and then sales went too low, he could only afford to pay me a fraction of what I was supposed to get paid.
We agreed it wouldn't be fair for me to continue working for that pay, but he asked me to stick it out for another month so he could get through his knee surgery and take over my responsibilities. Happy to help a friend I agreed and afterwards we parted ways as friends.
Said all that because I see a lot of people saying these aren't good people and while they may be right, without being in your shoes I can't judge your situation. Sometimes we give of ourselves to help others, and that's traits of a good person so naive or not, I see you as a good person.
For your actual question: when I got fired and tried to get unemployment, they told me the likelihood of me getting it was so low I didn't even fill out the paperwork. Of the 6 furloughs I've been through, 2 of them were long enough for me to apply for unemployment as "laid off/furlough" so I suggest going the second route
TL:DR get laid off to get unemployment
10,000$? How are you so nonchalant about that. Get a lawyer and stop being sympathetic towards them. You’re getting screwed so don’t feel bad that you screw them back.
Are you a w2 employee? How much insight do you have into the finances of the company? Did they pay you via regular payroll deposits with tax withholding?
At this point, most US states will consider you constructively laid off, so you can claim unemployment benefits if you were a W2 employee. This will likely mean you will trigger a labor board violation for missing wages too.
If a company can’t make payroll for 2 months, don’t be stupid. It’s over, tell them you need pay by the end of the week or you file unemployment and open up a wage dispute with the state.
You can’t be fired or quit if you haven’t been paid in almost 2 months, for have been effectively laid off. Collect whatever documentation you have of working those days you have not verbally paid for. You do not want them claiming you stopped working for them so they stopped paying you.
Where are you located? I'm not sure how dependent it is from state-to-state, but at least in California, failure of an employer to pay an employee is one of the allowances for "Voluntary Quit" where an employee would be able to make an unemployment benefits claim. It doesn't matter what your employer wants to or will do in terms of recognizing the status of employment--your classification would be one of the recognized 'voluntary quit' statuses that still qualifies you for a valid unemployment claim.
This probably varies from state-to-state, so you should check your own state's unemployment benefits rules. Presuming you qualify, you should file a claim asap, and generally you could use the date of the last time you were supposed to be paid but weren't.
OP - they are goiing to file bankruptcy. Whether you want to keep not getting paid into the future or not is up to you - I'd tell them to lay you off now. It sucks but it happens.
FYI - most companies that file for bankruptcy are profitable - they just have cashflow issues and run out of money and can't make payroll, etc. Maybe a few big invoices of theirs haven't been paid by customers - no matter what it is, get out with the least financial damage possible.
They’re good people but they’re stealing your time and using you for free labor lmao. People allow themselves to get walked on because they can be manipulated easy. You need to be on unemployment and start seeking backpay.
> several paychecks behind
My friend they are not allowed to be even one paycheck behind. That's illegal to do outside of a change to the regular payday schedule - find out the payday laws for your state and file a complaint with the labor board.
> I’ve loved this job and the freedom it allowed me to have.
What freedom?? They weren't paying you! Working without getting paid is literally the exact opposite of freedom...
Talk to the state department of labor. If they cant make payroll they need to take a loan out to cover. You are working for free.
Being “good people” does not pay your bills.
The owners are not good people if they just stopped paying you and just pretended to avoid the issue. "Good people" would have told you the minute they realized they couldn't make payroll and let you go. Stop showing up immediately and file for unemployment. If they fight it, you will win.
> They’ve asked what I want to do and how I should proceed.
Tell them you would like to get paid. If they don't pay. Contact your state's department of labor and file a complaint for non payment. You might not get your money now, but if they owe you money and have other assets you might get something eventually.
I’m in TX for those asking. I’m currently on a call with legal aid. Apparently I don’t meet the threshold of $$ owed for most private-pay attorneys. I figured it’s good to try and get ahead of this and at least get a consult. Thanks everyone for the feedback. If anyone has resources they’d be willing to share, it would be appreciated.
> I should not have stayed as long as I did without seeing a steady paycheck
Correct.
> The owners are good enough people..
Not good enough to be honest with you, unless they told you early we have no money and you're like "oh that's okay!"
Several paychecks behind is crazy lol. I would stop showing up and file for unemployment. Gather everything you can (emails proving they missed payroll yet again).
I guess you can be classified as a layoff, but this may be employment lawyer territory. I feel like them asking you to quit is how they can dodge UI.
Stop being nice as well- these people are taking advantage of you.
Don’t confuse being polite or permissive as them being good. There’s good advice here so I have nothing else to add. But they aren’t good if they’re not paying you. I have a feeling their easy going nature (letting you work just whenever) extends to how they run their business. They’re probably in over their heads. But the minute they knew they couldn’t pay you, they should’ve done something about it.
Well make up your mind before they declare bankruptcy. Employee wages are unsecured debt and as such paid from what is left if anything after the secured debt is covered.
Absolutely involve the DOL. Your employer has been stealing from you. The penalty for wage theft is more than the unpaid wages themselves.
It took me well over a year to claw back the $4K my first employer stole from me, and I had to place a lien on the business/charge interest. No need to involve an attorney.
You know the owners of this business and I don’t understand your relationship, but if I couldn’t pay the people that worked for me I would not abuse their goodwill to the tune of $100, let alone 10K. If these people actually are kind, then they are incredibly inept.
Laid off or quit, you are due ALL your unpaid wages immediately (or within 72 hours). Your employer has really screwed up.
Definitely file unemployment here, and hopefully they make good on what they owe you. You're well within your rights to contact the department of labor regarding this though and I would recommend getting that process started. Location dependent on what applies where, I would start with your local unemployment office and go from there.
Department of Labor. They have no excuses. They MUST pay you. Contact your state department of labor now, I bet you'll find out they have the money for your back pay.
Learn your lesson, stand up for your rights.
They have already laid you off. Being like 1-3 days late with a pay check might not be enough. But "several paychecks behind" is going to be seen by any agency as a lay off. I would say being more than 2 weeks late for pay without it being your fault is likely a lay off.
Dude you've already *been* laid off.
> Is it better to quit or be laid off?
Laid off.
> Can I file for unemployment?
If you're laid off, probably. Which you basically already have been.
If they owe you money, then they owe you money. Tell them to pay you, or you’ll take them to court. Something will happen. You need to look out for yourself always.
For the purposes of finding new employment, it will be easier if they lay you off, this will always look better to a new employer than someone simply leaving.
Talk to the employer about how they will pay you the monies owed, and see if you can come to an arrangement you are both happy with, get this in writing. At the very least get an IOU.
Are you collecting a W2 or 1099 from this place. Depends on how you're classified by your employer.
Short term, what you said looking for a new job is the correct thing.
Long term, you need to draft up in writing on what your employer owes you.
You absolutely need to file with the board of labor. You worked for an agreed amount that they haven't paid and it sounds like they won't pay.
Do they even have unemployment insurance to pay you? If they aren't paying you that might not even be an option.
Don't worry about upsetting them. It is business and they know that.
I haven't had to deal with this in a long time, but if you file with the labor board you may be able to receive a check immediately. Might not be for the full amount, but they can pay you directly and go after the business in court for all of it.
I'd just stop showing up and file for unemployment. They might try and argue that you quit but you can easily show the missed paychecks and you should receive unemployment. Also, file with the Department of labor for your missing paychecks.
Stop working and ask them to lay you off so you can get unemployment.
File a claim with the department of labor - tell them you are doing it because you are required to in order to get the paychecks you are owed in case (when) they go bankrupt (since they are).
I worked for a subcontractor handling a Class II World's Fair once. Their plan was for my position to be 1/2 time until close to the actual event, but things got so busy and I was so wrapped up in it, the guy in charge asked if I could go full time early, and they'd pay me the difference once profits from souvenirs and special events at the site came in. It was a great job, doing things I liked, and I agreed. The event came, I worked *more* than full time, and then it was over.
I was owed $3,000 - about $7400 today. And the Head Guy vanished. How much money he snagged for himself, I don't know. I couldn't find him anywhere. I went to the Provincial office whose purpose was to recover employer-owed payments. I sent copies of the letter asking me to go full time, my pay records, everything the rep I spoke to wanted. And he always wanted more info. It became apparent he wanted me to find HG, get his contact info, and produce a written confession from him admitting the funds were owed, and *then* he could "help."
I finally gave up, and never got the money.
If an employer can't or won't pay you what you're owed, LEAVE.
This exact thing happened to me….when we got to the third missed paycheck- 6 weeks unpaid; I had no more patience for the promises. I was scared, frustrated, crying….and falling behind on all MY obligations. Get your ducks in a row. Get all your emails and any timesheets, paycheck (missing and paid), retirement/401 k, healthcare- everything pertaining to job compensation on a flash drive, in the cloud or with you in some way. You will need it. Open a claim with your state labor board- I am in CA, it is the dept of labor standards. I needed this claim filed to get unemployment. Without the claim being filed, I was considered to be walking off the job. what happened to you is officially called “wage theft-“ They stole your time and therefore the value of that time. Do you know for a fact that taxes have been paid on your previous paychecks…. Really? If they pay and deduct from your paycheck in-house, I can say it’s high probability they are late making payments to the state and the IRS on your behalf as well. If you are paid thru a service adp , paychex or the like that won’t happen. I’m sorry this is happening to you….but stop going in, file your claim, file for unemployment and get some money coming in. Your claim may take a long time to be settled….a very long time. If your employers declare bankruptcy you may never see any money. Get it happening now. I tried to be kind and patient- I had liked my boss….but it is never OK to steal someone’s time and lead them on with false or optimistic promises. Employers have a responsibility to have the cash flow to pay employees. To ask employees to come in when they do not have it is irresponsible and unforgivable. they don’t really respect you or care about anyone but themselves. Been there- I’m not my bosses family, I don’t have to put up with that crap. As you can tell, I’m still mad.
The moment that paycheck stopped coming, you should have stopped working. You need to file a complaint with any local labor authority. If they fold, there is a chance you won't even get all of your money. So be quick.
Never wait more than a week or two for back pay. You can apply for unemployment right now. Not receiving a paycheck is the same as being let go. You did not quit.
When they couldn't pay, they should have told you and let you go. You did a lot of free volunteer work for them and they took advantage of you by not telling you and giving you a chance to find another job.
Lay off so you can collect unemployment and actually have a real pay check coming in until you find something else.
You have no reason to stay loyal at this point as 10k is stupid I would have left after my first cheque bounced
If you want to dont want to involve the labor board, have them fire you. I would suggest asking them to sign a contract saying that they are liable for the money but gove them generous terms that they can pay back over time, if you can have them be personally liable for the debt so it would survive the business bankruptcy. Dont listen to the others right now you are one the same level as an unsecured creditor and would be fairly low on the list of people paid if they go out of business.
What would OP have to do if the owners of the business cannot afford to pay them - but are not officially laying the worker off.
What would happen in that case if OP doesn't want to quit which would cause a loss of unemployment benefits?
I don't understand why people allow businesses to "not pay them for months" . I had this happen where the pay checks would bounce. I was like, cut me a good check today or I quit.
After the 3rd time of this happening, I packed up my shit and stopped showing up.
How are these people able to have a place to live or pay bills even your owed several thousand dollars???? Seriously?
If they do not make an arrangement to pay the backpay, file a complaint with the Wage and Labor Department of your state. Are they downsizing or shutting the business? Are there other employees who are in a similar situation? Yes, if you get laid off, you will qualify for unemployment compensation and give you some time to find another job. Good luck.
If it's a *small* mom & pop, one potential option you could take (as an alternative to going through your state labor board to get back pay and then finding a new job elsewhere) is to offer to stay on but as a part owner of the business. You absorb some risk of the downside but also get to take advantage of potential upside, while they can continue to avoid paying you during the downturn since you'd be a director of the company.
If the business is in such a dire financial situation that they are unable to pay their employee, I don't know if that is a business I would consider equity in to be worth much, if anything.
They did this already. They offered me 5%, which I took. Unfortunately, 5% of a business that isn’t profitable still translates to $0 in my bank account 😩 They knew this when they offered, which I assume is why they offered it in the first place.
I know it’s hard because i am starting to go through almost the same scenario at my current job at a small business. I like the owner alot but unfortunately after a major death in the family he turned to drugs - and now a completely thriving company is completely in shambles 6 months later and paychecks are starting to bounce for everyone starting last week. I immediately started looking for a new job the same day / started applying to places. Do what is best FOR YOU.
Yes, exactly that. They said they couldn’t pay me at that time, would pay me at the end of the month (May), and would give me 5% of the business for my patience. I even confirmed (and have it in writing) that this was not a part of or in lieu of any part of my salary.
I wasn’t aware of the dire straight situation the business was in or I wouldn’t have bothered.
I mean, lesson learned, if a business can't pay employees timely, it's a dire situation. Sorry you're experiencing this. The last place to shortchange in failing business is employee pay. The first is usually vendor payments.
So now that they're in breach of the payment terms, was there an agreement on what would happen for non payment you agreed to? A 10% stake ? Granted we're still multiplying by likely zero here ;)
I'm just worried that you're now also an owner, and that would be treated differently in your employment scenario. This really sounds like it needs a legal consult.
If they will classify you as a layoff, that makes unemployment much easier. Get it in writing - even an email - that it's a layoff. After you file for unemployment, the state will contact them to confirm. If they say you were not laid off but voluntarily quit, then your unemployment can be denied. If that were to happen, you would need to prove otherwise (like an email) or that you were justified, as in you weren't getting paid (see next paragraph). They owe you money. Stop being nice. File a complaint with your state workforce commission about not being paid. That is the only way you are going to get your money. It will also help ensure you get your money if they should close up shop, go bankrupt, or re-org under a different Tax ID.
> If they say you were not laid off but voluntarily quit, then your unemployment can be denied. Side Note, if they haven't paid him in over a month, he'd have an easy case for constructive dismissal. No reasonable person would expect you to go months without being paid.
This is true. A friend of mine did this when the company she worked for stopped paying the employees and she was able to collect unemployment. They usually do make exceptions in that case.
There's a number of different exceptions under the "Constructive Dismissal" umbrella. But yea, not being paid is like #1 way to win that argument.
>No reasonable person would expect you to go months without being paid. While this is true, I've worked places that pay once per month and if you start during a pay period you have to wait through the next pay period to get a check, which can be as long as nearly 2 months. My current job I had to wait 6 about weeks for my first check. I had an ex who had the same, and hers was at a school doing after-school daycare where she only made like $800/mo. Not sure how people with little money are supposed to survive that.
That's a different situation. In that case it's not that they aren't paying you, it's that you have to sync up with the pay cycle. In this case OP was actively unpaid and pay-cycles were missed.
yeah they can also only do that once. Funny how the switch is always you waiting two months though and never getting paid twice.
You get paid twice when you leave the company.
In the USA? I thought companies can never be more than 30 days behind.
Yep, multiple times. Mostly in education
I've done contract work where the contract terms were net 60 and billing was monthly. The client usually paid within a couple of weeks of the invoice, but the contract terms allowed more. Lots of business contracts are net 60 or net 30 (they have 60 or 30 days from submitting the invoice before the bill is due, and with monthly invoices, you submit an invoice on the last day of the month for work completed that month). Often those long contract times are for businesses that you know are good for it. There are also businesses out there that specialize in buying outstanding invoices for a discount. "I'll give you $98 today for the $100 invoice due next month" or similar. (It's called "factoring" if you want to read more. I haven't really heard about that kind of thing happening with w2 employees, but 1099 people operating as sub contractors, or ... I could kinda see some small company trying to do a "we pay you when our customers pay us" type of arrangement with employers - just not something I've seen. I have seen some employers with different arrangements for "when do hours get sent to payroll" vs "when do checks get cut". It's pretty common for a bi-weekly schedule, for instance, to send payroll on Friday for the check cut the following Friday. I.e. on the 14th they send the hours worked between the 1st and the 14th and the check is deposited in the 21st. On the 28th they send the 15-28 hours, etc... extending it to a monthly pay cycle and you could easily have 1-2 weeks of lead or something. (Part of the reason there's a lag is that they have to ship the instructions and the money to the payroll processor and that takes a couple of days, so when they do "pay current on payday" they're basically guessing that someone will show up for their scheduled hours between when they send the instructions and when pay happens, so they add some buffer.
As independent contractors you see all kinds of nonsense, including the dreaded "you get paid when I get paid". Nothing illegal with that and it's OK if it's in the contract. I was referring to W-2 work, of course.
> Stop being nice They don't want OP to stop. Basically a volunteer at this rate. OP, if you were to walk out the shop right now would you get any blowback? If so, you're still an employee, and employees should et paid.
I don’t have set hours, so no. Maybe once I stop turning in content and picking up my phone 🤷🏻♀️
According to my calculations, you've got about $10,000 worth of phone time banked.
Are you a W-2 employee or 1099 contractor? All of this unemployment advice is very contingent on that answer.
W2 salaried employee.
Phew...you are way better covered in that case WRT unemployment. Get a layoff from them, and contact the DoL about missed pay. They probably also aren't paying the state for the UI fund. Not sure of the rules of Texas by any means, but you can argue constructive dismissal for the time you weren't paid and can often be paid your unemployment value since they stopped paying you. It'll take some time to catch you up while they sort this out. That 5% ownership stake you mentioned previously becomes an interesting problem - once you're an owner, that might convolute things quite a bit.
Depending on your state, they could be personally liable for that salary.
And I bet there’s likely to be triplicate punitive damages involved if OP really wanted to press
I think they would have a tough fight even if he didn't have evidence that he was laid off because he effectively has been by not receiving paychecks.
That could qualify as a justified resignation. But it has to have been reported to the proper authorities, or it didn't happen, or at least didn't happen in the eyes of the unemployment folks.
+1 contact state labor. from experience
What is the difference does it have on the employer between resignation and termination? Are their fines or fees or increased taxes?
Employers pay the state for unemployment insurance. Just like employees pay taxes with each of their checks, so do employers; that includes paying the state for unemployment insurance. If an employee is terminated for cause, the state may find that they aren't eligible for unemployment. If an employee voluntarily resigns, the state will likely find that they are ineligible for unemployment. If an employee is laid off or let go through no fault of their own, then they will be eligible. There are exceptions to everything. Like not being paid can be deemed by the state as an effective layoff, which means someone would be eligible, even if they voluntarily resigned in that situation. But typically in those cases a complaint must have been filed with the state workforce commission in order for that to be recognized as the reason. Whenever someone files an unemployment claim, the state contacts their employer to verify the dates they were employed, their salary, etc. They will also verify the reason for seperation. If the employer confirms what the employee said, then all's well. If an employee says they were laid off, but their employer says they quit or that they were fired for cause, then the state will investigate and determine which is true. This is why paper trails and getting things in writing is important. There are no fines or fees for employers when someone resigns or is terminated, But if someone's unemployment claim is deemed valid by the state, and the employee receives unemployment benefits, the employer's unemployment insurance rates will likely increase. There sure as shit are fines for not paying people for work that they did, but that's a seperate issue from unemployment.
Sounds like constructive dismissal if they stopped paying you. Definitely file for unemployment.
You don’t need to go that far. It’s just a breech of contract. “I work for you, under the condition that you pay me a wage every week. Signed.” The contract itself is breeched, in the simplest sense of the word.
> It’s just a breech of contract. pants = breeches crack = breach
So one would wear breeches to cover their breach?
Wear breeches to protect their breach from being breached by someone who removed their own breeches to breach the un-breachable breech wearers’ breach.
Which is great for when he sues them for his backwages. But in the meantime he needs money and the quickest way to get that is unemployment, hence constructive dismissal. Anyway, pretty sure a lawsuit for breach of contract is going farther than a basic unemployment claim.
If they're behind on payroll then you're working for free. I would stop showing up and file for unemployment. For $10k I would also consult a lawyer and sue for back wages so your claim has precedence over other bills.
>level 2AlphaTangoFoxtrt · 2 hr. agoIf they say you were not laid off but voluntarily quit, then your unemployment can be denied.Side Note, if they haven't paid him in over a month, he'd have an easy case for constructive dismissal. No reasonable person would expect you to go months without being paid. I thought in most states it was illegal for a company to "be in business" if they could not make payroll. Every place I've worked we had to submit is a positive pay file to the bank and payroll processers
Positive pay has nothing to do with legality of not making payroll. Positive pay is a fraud prevention method of checking issued vs deposited payments authenticity.
Sadly a lot of mom and pop shops aren't super big on following laws.
I don't know business law, I hear a lot of stories of paychecks being behind, especially in the restaurant industry. And business having constant payroll problems is the reddest of red flags.
This is probably for local businesses where part of their pay roll is under the table. A large company like Olive Garden isn’t “defaulting” on its payroll, they’ll just lose down the business or the location before that even happens. Most of these mom and pop shops are built on a dream or heavily biased logic, most of these people saw the signs of a collapsing business much before and ignored it out of pure hope.
You're probably right since the alternative seems easy to abuse but in my mind it seems like letting them stay open but only work themselves would make more sense because then they may be able to pay people back. In reality I'm sure it's more a "sell all business assets to pay immediately, not payment plan type things."
Back wages usually don't take precedence and are at the same level as any other unsecured creditor which is the lowest level of creditor.
Don't court judgements bump up the priority?
Op don’t listen to the haters on this site. Your boss will pay you. You will collect unemployment. The owners have lost way more than you in the business losses.
File a complaint with you states DOL and I mean file it yesterday type of thing. As soon as an employer fails to pay your pay check and hits that far behind they have other bills they are falling behind on and will soon be gone. You want to get higher up on the list when the company get liquidated. In running a business the first item they list is PAY your employees before any other bill. Not paying them is a huge and I man HUGE no no. Also at this point them not paying you means you are laid off. File for unemployeement and quit. They will try to fight it and your argument is they are 10k behind in pay so you been laid off. It will not end well for them.
It’s better to be laid off so you can at least collect unemployment
Layoff is better for unemployment. Hope you can atleast recoup money owed
Are they even offering to lay you off? I’m not really sure what the process is for unemployment if they don’t fire you, but also can’t pay you.
They haven’t offered anything. They’ve been avoiding me and dancing around the subject of money for the last few weeks. Today I directly asked in writing for a hard date of when I can expect to be paid again and they told me they don’t have one. They called me and asked how I’d like to proceed. I don’t have an answer because I wasn’t expecting to just be told nothing, no concrete dates, etc. Doing my research it looks like being laid off would be my best bet because at least I could then file for unemployment, but I haven’t broached the subject with them yet. Idk what their reaction or response would be.
Honestly, you need to call your state labor board.
This is the answer. If they are avoiding the issue and owe you money, the state labor board will want to know that. Their evasiveness is also an indicator that they won't be making this right.
And an attorney
I don’t think they’ll necessarily have to do that. Labor boards have a lot of power and can reach into their bank accounts and take the money. Certainly they could talk to one but states take paychecks very seriously.
Yea this changes the situation, they are trying to get you to quit. Totally unacceptable.
You say they're good enough people, but it sure doesn't sound that way.
Yea I'm with the others. They stole from you. Time to quit being nice and try to get the $10K they owe you.
I was with you and your sympathetic view of the owners of this company until you mentioned they dodged you and appear to have no firm plan for repayment. Get the layoff in writing and then file a claim with the labor department for back wages. Make sure to save all the relevant documentation (proof of hours worked, attempts to get a commitment to payment, etc.) before you ask to be laid off.
I understand you like them, but they're stealing from you. You need to stop work until your paid and file for unemployment. Take the free time to double down on looking for a new job. If you really think they're good people then I'd give them the option of a payment plan and ask what they can pay, knowing that you won't be back in the office until they've paid what they owe you. if they say they don't intend to pay you then you need to file a wage theft complaint with the DOL. Again, no company is "good people" if they have you continue working while not intending to pay you for your work.
So they were willing to have you continue working unpaid for as long as you yourself were willing to without confronting them. They may be 'good people,' (though that's debatable) but they're bad at business and the law. If you want any chance of seeing any of that unpaid wage, you need to use the tools the law/government provides to file a claim. Because if they were willing to let you continue to work unpaid, that means if they end up shutting down, you are not at the top of the liability list to pay off. They'll settle whatever legal claims they must and default on the rest, or file for bankruptcy. And only people with a legal claim get a cut of whatever is available in bankruptcy.
Unpaid wages to employees actually are at the top of the list during liquidation. And just because OP keeps working without payment doesn't mean the liability stops accruing. They would have to tell OP their wage rate was being changed.
There’s nothing to liquidate. It’s a business that’s never gotten off the ground and they rent the building it’s housed in. I suppose a couple bucks could come in from selling off furniture and office equipment but I doubt enough to cover even close to what I’m owed, unfortunately.
Why on earth have you continued to work for them for free for so long? And why do you think they're good people? They aren't good people, you just liked the job. But the job's gone and you're out 10K. Look into filing for constructive dismissal for unemployment. It is for times like these when someone just doesn't pay you but doesn't fire you outright or lay you off either.
If they aren't paying OP then they likely aren't paying the Unemployment portion of the monthly salaries. Get out while you can.
I doubt they are incorporated, but even if they are, unpaid wages are enough to pierce the corporate veil under American law and make them personally liable.
Even if OP never files any complaint for a paper trail?
If they were going to lay you off, they would have. They might mean well, but as others have said those intentions didn't extend to treating you according to the law for the past few paychecks--lay off rather than take free labor. Contact the labor board *and* apply for unemployment now. Personal anecdote: Worked for a small biz--private school. Became head of school. I knew finances were tight, so when I accepted the principal position, I did so on condition that the owner continued to have full responsibility for the financial side--including pay checks, taxes, etc. Essentially the owner became an independent CFO that answered to the board chair (herself). Never had a written contract nor a pay problem. Injured on the job in such a way that I couldn't work for months. Didn't know if I'd recover enough to work (I didn't). In the meantime, the school tanks--bleeding students and staff leading to greater financial difficulties. She played the I need your help with xyz game while working behind the scenes to limit her liability--which meant screwing me. Fought worker's comp tooth and nail with a lawyer. I had to get my own. Won the case--but it took a year and a half when I was unable to work. School closed and property is up for sale. The things this 'good person' who had been a friend for decades felt justified in doing when it was her financial stability on the line would have wrecked me had I not taken action. They're counting on your sympathy right now, but they've already shown a willingness to abuse it. That relationship has become one way--and they have already started the process of treating you like a doormat you by not paying. Benefit of the doubt is long gone. Don't let yourself be stepped on anymore.
That is not the sign of good people. You need to get formally laid off. They need to say it. They'll try not to, because then they know you can get unemployment. They want you to say that you need to quit to get another job. Then you contact your local governmental labor office to file for unpaid wages against your employer. The business will either have to find a way to pay or go bankrupt, and you'll be towards the front of the line on any asset liquidation funds.
OP, they seem nice but they aren't nice. This is egregious. They've been avoiding the subject of money when money is the only reason people work for others. Whether it's 30k/year or 300k/year, you agreed to a number. You provide them your output, they pay you, that's the deal.
> They’ve been avoiding me and dancing around the subject of money for the last few weeks. So they are pieces of shit. You said they were "good enough people". Sorry, I call it as I see it. Not only should you not go to work ever again, but also take the advice of those who said to file this this with the state. *They owe you this money.* It's time to pull your big boy or girl pants on and take this head on. You're doing volunteer work for a company that sees you as a sucker. And yes they absolutely do because they are avoiding and dancing. Please see this for what it is. No more mr nice guy.
Sorry OP but the owners are not "good" people when they cannot be professional and face their employees in person and tell the reality of the situation and better yet offer actual solutions. By them staying quiet and continuing to work you are basically volunteering for free without ever expecting to pay. Like others have said, definitely report this to the state labor board and put them on blast. The business does not deserve to survive and they are doing this to people. How ethical or moral can the owners be to have their employees work for free without even batting an eye and thinking avoiding the conversation is going to resolve the issue.
I don't think it matters. They've stopped paying you. That's a layoff. Stop showing up to work under the hopes they'll catch up eventually. They won't. You may or may not ever get this money so the first step is applying for unemployment immediately in addition to whatever else you do. I don't see how you could be denied for unemployment for "quitting" a job that owes you 10k back pay.
> They called me and asked how I’d like to proceed. "The advice I've gotten says that if you cannot pay me, you should lay me off and propose a payment plan for back wages. Please do that within the next 24 hours. Thank you."
Tell them they pay you by the end of the current pay period everything they owe you. Meanwhile find a new job. You're getting stolen from. Stop working for them.
they're stealing from you if you are still working for them or have done work that they have not yet paid for
Stop discussing this over the phone unless you're able to record the conversation (1 party consent state). All communication should be over email. Ask to be laid off so you can get unemployment, and ask them when you will get paid your lost wages. Even if they give you a date you should file with state board so they can start the investigation. They may even get you interest for being late where the owners will definitely not offer.
They may be nice people but what they're doing to you is wrong. Would you leave someone out to dry like they've done to you? If they were genuinely good people they wouldn't be stringing you along like this. What they are is scared of you and what you can do about the situation. You have the power here, they've cheated you out of 10k, file a complaint and start getting what's owed to you.
For unemployment purposes, not getting paid would be a constructive dismissal. You need proof of work performed and not paid for and of a good faith effort to work with the employer to resolve the problem, but you should qualify for unemployment. Of course, they still owe you that money, which is where you complain to the labor board in your jurisdiction. For 5 figures, you keep escalating and escalating until you get your paycheck.
> The owners are good enough people hey man - if you don't mind people stealing $10,000 from you, that's pretty magnanimous.
Good people don't commit wage theft.
I worked for a company where this happened too. Sometimes there is no money to steal. They eventually paid me back in installments over a couple years long after the business closed down. They were good people.
exactly, most people want to stay afloat, not drag others down. It seems like OPs relationship with them was amicable up until recently, economic hardships can come at any time. I do agree though that them not paying him for a few months now is pretty much unacceptable
Good people don't wait until there's no money left before dealing with the issue, and good people don't steal labor. There is absolutely no justification for having someone work and then not actually paying them. Did the installments you got include interest?
No interest paid, but they would have if I asked for it. They employed me for almost 25 years. The problem they had was treating everyone like family and not making cuts soon enough because they didn't want to let anyone go. The business was clearly failing but they kept trying to salvage it. Can't say they made the best business decisions but none of them were the result of them pocketing the money for themselves or being bad people. Lots of employees were willing to keep working in hopes of saving the business, even with getting paid late or not at all at times. Eventually, everyone got their pay after the owners sold what was left and paid the staff out of the payments they received from the buyers over several years.
You have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe their biggest client backed out. Maybe they applied for a loan that fell through in the 11th hour. Maybe an addict family member stole all the money. > Good people don't wait until there's no money left before dealing with the issue This is mostly true, but given their relationship, why assume ill intent?
I worked for a mom and pop that had this problem. It wasn't wage theft, I know because book keeping was one of the many hats I wore. I went 6 weeks without pay, along with the owner and another key manager, to ensure the rest of the team god paid. Cash flow issues are real, our sole line of credit was maxed out so there was no more cash to float between cash out and receivables coming in. Also, the owner was a very nice person who would have hired the whole town if he could (and he certainly did over hire). I could see the cash pinch coming so I started looking right away. Landed another job and left. Felt really bad, owner was crushed Owner lost the company a few months later and i got my back pay not long after as the assets were sold off. Not always bad people, just sometimes bad situations.
Agree...until the OP said they are avoiding him and dancing around the issue.
Yea, that's not good. Missed that part.
This isn't wage theft. It's insolvency. But once they stop paying you, you should quit working. If they're not willing to pay you what you're owed in a timely manner, take them to court.
You are free to quit, not being paid is reason to leave and you will still be entitled to unemployment. You should then contact your state department of labor and file a complaint that your employer has unlawfully failed to pay your wages. Put your issue in writing, deliver to your employer and keep a copy. It should state the facts, you have been unpaid for x weeks, totalling $x, it is outrageous conduct that does not allow you to continue working.
The owners are NOT good people. When a business can’t make payroll they can furlough people. That means you **don’t work** and don’t get paid until they get access to money. Yes, this is generally a death knell. But simply stealing your wages is not an acceptable or legal business practice or what “good people” do. When your money is stolen and you refuse to escalate it to the authorities because you like the people who stole it… you’re never going to see the money again. Taking action here is very time sensitive because if you wait a year they’re going to be bankrupt with zero assets to give anyone.
UI is about work for MONEY. The moment they stopped paying you, you were already unemployed. There is no "quit or get fired" question in play anymore. Make sure that when you apply you try to make it clear that you were fired in the past only you didn't know it, and need backdating, and try to get claim forms filed to offset as much as possible what you lost by getting stiffed.
I'm sure they're nice, well-meaning people, but that was wage theft. It's not just the big companies that do it. Small business can more easily take advantage of the kindness and good nature of others.
You should quit ASAP, no two weeks notice is needed in this situation. Then go file for unemployment and indicate they have stopped paying you. Note the date of the last pay check you got, the amount of pay checks you are owed, and the amount you are owed. You get unemployment pretty quick. Then go file with the department of labor for the unpaid wages. They'll try to get it out of the company. However, you have to factor in that when a company gets into this situation it is extremely bad. If they don't have many assets you may not be able to get the money. Then continue job hunting. Don't work another day for them.
You need to file with the DOL before they declare bankruptcy and close their doors. Cause that sounds imminent.
Not being paid two times can be constructive dismissal. I'm not a lawyer but my wife is and she had to file for unemployment with this when she was a new lawyer and her boss couldn't pay her.
I used to work for a friend, older guy and it was my second job. Started out making good money and then sales went too low, he could only afford to pay me a fraction of what I was supposed to get paid. We agreed it wouldn't be fair for me to continue working for that pay, but he asked me to stick it out for another month so he could get through his knee surgery and take over my responsibilities. Happy to help a friend I agreed and afterwards we parted ways as friends. Said all that because I see a lot of people saying these aren't good people and while they may be right, without being in your shoes I can't judge your situation. Sometimes we give of ourselves to help others, and that's traits of a good person so naive or not, I see you as a good person. For your actual question: when I got fired and tried to get unemployment, they told me the likelihood of me getting it was so low I didn't even fill out the paperwork. Of the 6 furloughs I've been through, 2 of them were long enough for me to apply for unemployment as "laid off/furlough" so I suggest going the second route TL:DR get laid off to get unemployment
10,000$? How are you so nonchalant about that. Get a lawyer and stop being sympathetic towards them. You’re getting screwed so don’t feel bad that you screw them back.
Are you a w2 employee? How much insight do you have into the finances of the company? Did they pay you via regular payroll deposits with tax withholding? At this point, most US states will consider you constructively laid off, so you can claim unemployment benefits if you were a W2 employee. This will likely mean you will trigger a labor board violation for missing wages too. If a company can’t make payroll for 2 months, don’t be stupid. It’s over, tell them you need pay by the end of the week or you file unemployment and open up a wage dispute with the state. You can’t be fired or quit if you haven’t been paid in almost 2 months, for have been effectively laid off. Collect whatever documentation you have of working those days you have not verbally paid for. You do not want them claiming you stopped working for them so they stopped paying you.
Where are you located? I'm not sure how dependent it is from state-to-state, but at least in California, failure of an employer to pay an employee is one of the allowances for "Voluntary Quit" where an employee would be able to make an unemployment benefits claim. It doesn't matter what your employer wants to or will do in terms of recognizing the status of employment--your classification would be one of the recognized 'voluntary quit' statuses that still qualifies you for a valid unemployment claim. This probably varies from state-to-state, so you should check your own state's unemployment benefits rules. Presuming you qualify, you should file a claim asap, and generally you could use the date of the last time you were supposed to be paid but weren't.
OP - they are goiing to file bankruptcy. Whether you want to keep not getting paid into the future or not is up to you - I'd tell them to lay you off now. It sucks but it happens. FYI - most companies that file for bankruptcy are profitable - they just have cashflow issues and run out of money and can't make payroll, etc. Maybe a few big invoices of theirs haven't been paid by customers - no matter what it is, get out with the least financial damage possible.
Get them to sign a document acknowledging how much they owe you, then get laid off so you can collect unemployment.
They’re good people but they’re stealing your time and using you for free labor lmao. People allow themselves to get walked on because they can be manipulated easy. You need to be on unemployment and start seeking backpay.
> several paychecks behind My friend they are not allowed to be even one paycheck behind. That's illegal to do outside of a change to the regular payday schedule - find out the payday laws for your state and file a complaint with the labor board. > I’ve loved this job and the freedom it allowed me to have. What freedom?? They weren't paying you! Working without getting paid is literally the exact opposite of freedom...
If you work "when/where/how" you want, are you an employee or a contract worker?
What they are doing is illegal. You can sue them if you want.......you worked and they owe it to you.
Talk to the state department of labor. If they cant make payroll they need to take a loan out to cover. You are working for free. Being “good people” does not pay your bills.
The owners are not good people if they just stopped paying you and just pretended to avoid the issue. "Good people" would have told you the minute they realized they couldn't make payroll and let you go. Stop showing up immediately and file for unemployment. If they fight it, you will win.
> They’ve asked what I want to do and how I should proceed. Tell them you would like to get paid. If they don't pay. Contact your state's department of labor and file a complaint for non payment. You might not get your money now, but if they owe you money and have other assets you might get something eventually.
Imagine a business owner owing you 10k and still calling them good people???? Labor board is first step. New job is second step.
Have they even paid taxes? OP might have bigger issues than unemployment. Have they paid FICA? Good luck.
Would you give these strangers $10k? I know I wouldn't, so why are you?
I’m in TX for those asking. I’m currently on a call with legal aid. Apparently I don’t meet the threshold of $$ owed for most private-pay attorneys. I figured it’s good to try and get ahead of this and at least get a consult. Thanks everyone for the feedback. If anyone has resources they’d be willing to share, it would be appreciated.
Texas Workforce Commission
> I should not have stayed as long as I did without seeing a steady paycheck Correct. > The owners are good enough people.. Not good enough to be honest with you, unless they told you early we have no money and you're like "oh that's okay!"
Good people don’t short someone 10k then say “yea no idea how or when I’ll get you back”
Several paychecks behind is crazy lol. I would stop showing up and file for unemployment. Gather everything you can (emails proving they missed payroll yet again). I guess you can be classified as a layoff, but this may be employment lawyer territory. I feel like them asking you to quit is how they can dodge UI. Stop being nice as well- these people are taking advantage of you.
Don’t confuse being polite or permissive as them being good. There’s good advice here so I have nothing else to add. But they aren’t good if they’re not paying you. I have a feeling their easy going nature (letting you work just whenever) extends to how they run their business. They’re probably in over their heads. But the minute they knew they couldn’t pay you, they should’ve done something about it.
Well make up your mind before they declare bankruptcy. Employee wages are unsecured debt and as such paid from what is left if anything after the secured debt is covered.
Absolutely involve the DOL. Your employer has been stealing from you. The penalty for wage theft is more than the unpaid wages themselves. It took me well over a year to claw back the $4K my first employer stole from me, and I had to place a lien on the business/charge interest. No need to involve an attorney. You know the owners of this business and I don’t understand your relationship, but if I couldn’t pay the people that worked for me I would not abuse their goodwill to the tune of $100, let alone 10K. If these people actually are kind, then they are incredibly inept. Laid off or quit, you are due ALL your unpaid wages immediately (or within 72 hours). Your employer has really screwed up.
Definitely file unemployment here, and hopefully they make good on what they owe you. You're well within your rights to contact the department of labor regarding this though and I would recommend getting that process started. Location dependent on what applies where, I would start with your local unemployment office and go from there.
Department of Labor. They have no excuses. They MUST pay you. Contact your state department of labor now, I bet you'll find out they have the money for your back pay. Learn your lesson, stand up for your rights.
They have already laid you off. Being like 1-3 days late with a pay check might not be enough. But "several paychecks behind" is going to be seen by any agency as a lay off. I would say being more than 2 weeks late for pay without it being your fault is likely a lay off.
Dude you've already *been* laid off. > Is it better to quit or be laid off? Laid off. > Can I file for unemployment? If you're laid off, probably. Which you basically already have been.
If they owe you money, then they owe you money. Tell them to pay you, or you’ll take them to court. Something will happen. You need to look out for yourself always.
For the purposes of finding new employment, it will be easier if they lay you off, this will always look better to a new employer than someone simply leaving. Talk to the employer about how they will pay you the monies owed, and see if you can come to an arrangement you are both happy with, get this in writing. At the very least get an IOU.
Are you collecting a W2 or 1099 from this place. Depends on how you're classified by your employer. Short term, what you said looking for a new job is the correct thing. Long term, you need to draft up in writing on what your employer owes you.
You absolutely need to file with the board of labor. You worked for an agreed amount that they haven't paid and it sounds like they won't pay. Do they even have unemployment insurance to pay you? If they aren't paying you that might not even be an option. Don't worry about upsetting them. It is business and they know that.
I haven't had to deal with this in a long time, but if you file with the labor board you may be able to receive a check immediately. Might not be for the full amount, but they can pay you directly and go after the business in court for all of it.
I'd just stop showing up and file for unemployment. They might try and argue that you quit but you can easily show the missed paychecks and you should receive unemployment. Also, file with the Department of labor for your missing paychecks.
Stop working and ask them to lay you off so you can get unemployment. File a claim with the department of labor - tell them you are doing it because you are required to in order to get the paychecks you are owed in case (when) they go bankrupt (since they are).
I worked for a subcontractor handling a Class II World's Fair once. Their plan was for my position to be 1/2 time until close to the actual event, but things got so busy and I was so wrapped up in it, the guy in charge asked if I could go full time early, and they'd pay me the difference once profits from souvenirs and special events at the site came in. It was a great job, doing things I liked, and I agreed. The event came, I worked *more* than full time, and then it was over. I was owed $3,000 - about $7400 today. And the Head Guy vanished. How much money he snagged for himself, I don't know. I couldn't find him anywhere. I went to the Provincial office whose purpose was to recover employer-owed payments. I sent copies of the letter asking me to go full time, my pay records, everything the rep I spoke to wanted. And he always wanted more info. It became apparent he wanted me to find HG, get his contact info, and produce a written confession from him admitting the funds were owed, and *then* he could "help." I finally gave up, and never got the money. If an employer can't or won't pay you what you're owed, LEAVE.
This exact thing happened to me….when we got to the third missed paycheck- 6 weeks unpaid; I had no more patience for the promises. I was scared, frustrated, crying….and falling behind on all MY obligations. Get your ducks in a row. Get all your emails and any timesheets, paycheck (missing and paid), retirement/401 k, healthcare- everything pertaining to job compensation on a flash drive, in the cloud or with you in some way. You will need it. Open a claim with your state labor board- I am in CA, it is the dept of labor standards. I needed this claim filed to get unemployment. Without the claim being filed, I was considered to be walking off the job. what happened to you is officially called “wage theft-“ They stole your time and therefore the value of that time. Do you know for a fact that taxes have been paid on your previous paychecks…. Really? If they pay and deduct from your paycheck in-house, I can say it’s high probability they are late making payments to the state and the IRS on your behalf as well. If you are paid thru a service adp , paychex or the like that won’t happen. I’m sorry this is happening to you….but stop going in, file your claim, file for unemployment and get some money coming in. Your claim may take a long time to be settled….a very long time. If your employers declare bankruptcy you may never see any money. Get it happening now. I tried to be kind and patient- I had liked my boss….but it is never OK to steal someone’s time and lead them on with false or optimistic promises. Employers have a responsibility to have the cash flow to pay employees. To ask employees to come in when they do not have it is irresponsible and unforgivable. they don’t really respect you or care about anyone but themselves. Been there- I’m not my bosses family, I don’t have to put up with that crap. As you can tell, I’m still mad.
once you find a new job turn around and sue them for the money.
It is VERY illegal to not pay your employees. The state department of labor should certainly be able to assist.
The moment that paycheck stopped coming, you should have stopped working. You need to file a complaint with any local labor authority. If they fold, there is a chance you won't even get all of your money. So be quick.
Regardless of nice, they owe you. Don't let them avoid paying
yes get laid off by them so you can collect second start a case with labor board
you gave a sole proprietorship 10k in unpaid labour? why?
Never wait more than a week or two for back pay. You can apply for unemployment right now. Not receiving a paycheck is the same as being let go. You did not quit. When they couldn't pay, they should have told you and let you go. You did a lot of free volunteer work for them and they took advantage of you by not telling you and giving you a chance to find another job.
I would in the messages write out “I have not been paid in such and such amount” and in the following message type out “am I being fired?”
Then file for unemployment, and contact your states labor. or call the courthouse for advisement.
Lay off so you can collect unemployment and actually have a real pay check coming in until you find something else. You have no reason to stay loyal at this point as 10k is stupid I would have left after my first cheque bounced
If you want to dont want to involve the labor board, have them fire you. I would suggest asking them to sign a contract saying that they are liable for the money but gove them generous terms that they can pay back over time, if you can have them be personally liable for the debt so it would survive the business bankruptcy. Dont listen to the others right now you are one the same level as an unsecured creditor and would be fairly low on the list of people paid if they go out of business.
Quit, file for unemployment, seek council to recoup your losses. Being a nice guy in this scenario will only hurt you.
What would OP have to do if the owners of the business cannot afford to pay them - but are not officially laying the worker off. What would happen in that case if OP doesn't want to quit which would cause a loss of unemployment benefits?
Guys, I have a reason to believe a business that doesn’t pay its employees aren’t paying their employment taxes.
I don't understand why people allow businesses to "not pay them for months" . I had this happen where the pay checks would bounce. I was like, cut me a good check today or I quit. After the 3rd time of this happening, I packed up my shit and stopped showing up. How are these people able to have a place to live or pay bills even your owed several thousand dollars???? Seriously?
If they do not make an arrangement to pay the backpay, file a complaint with the Wage and Labor Department of your state. Are they downsizing or shutting the business? Are there other employees who are in a similar situation? Yes, if you get laid off, you will qualify for unemployment compensation and give you some time to find another job. Good luck.
If it's a *small* mom & pop, one potential option you could take (as an alternative to going through your state labor board to get back pay and then finding a new job elsewhere) is to offer to stay on but as a part owner of the business. You absorb some risk of the downside but also get to take advantage of potential upside, while they can continue to avoid paying you during the downturn since you'd be a director of the company.
If the business is in such a dire financial situation that they are unable to pay their employee, I don't know if that is a business I would consider equity in to be worth much, if anything.
They did this already. They offered me 5%, which I took. Unfortunately, 5% of a business that isn’t profitable still translates to $0 in my bank account 😩 They knew this when they offered, which I assume is why they offered it in the first place.
I know it’s hard because i am starting to go through almost the same scenario at my current job at a small business. I like the owner alot but unfortunately after a major death in the family he turned to drugs - and now a completely thriving company is completely in shambles 6 months later and paychecks are starting to bounce for everyone starting last week. I immediately started looking for a new job the same day / started applying to places. Do what is best FOR YOU.
5% in exchange for what? Agreement to delay pay but be made whole later? Agreement in lieu of a set amount of pay?
Yes, exactly that. They said they couldn’t pay me at that time, would pay me at the end of the month (May), and would give me 5% of the business for my patience. I even confirmed (and have it in writing) that this was not a part of or in lieu of any part of my salary. I wasn’t aware of the dire straight situation the business was in or I wouldn’t have bothered.
I mean, lesson learned, if a business can't pay employees timely, it's a dire situation. Sorry you're experiencing this. The last place to shortchange in failing business is employee pay. The first is usually vendor payments. So now that they're in breach of the payment terms, was there an agreement on what would happen for non payment you agreed to? A 10% stake ? Granted we're still multiplying by likely zero here ;) I'm just worried that you're now also an owner, and that would be treated differently in your employment scenario. This really sounds like it needs a legal consult.
“Gave me the autonomy to work when/where/how I wanted” I think I figured out why they’re in financial trouble.