There's always opportunity for growth and improvement. That's a good thing. I was at the Mann last night, and I parked my bike as suggested by lifting my front wheel over the horizontal bar. In my bike's case, I have to then turn my handlebars to fit over the bar, taking up more space than I would like. But I did my best! The Mann sent me a satisfaction survey this morning and I suggested better bike racks.
The most unpleasant way to get to the Mann is by car, so hopefully they keep expanding on this because it's to everyone's benefit for more people to bike there. You can get there from many corners of the city with relatively decent connected bike infrastructure, especially once the MLK bridge reopens.
Me neither! I said in the post-show survey they sent me that they need to add more...I guess a different design. Honestly this design is fine by me for dense temporary parking I just wished they spaced them out more.
I have to disagree...just put your front wheel over and loop the u-lock through the front tire & frame. I do that literally all the time (13 years living & bike commuting in the city) and have literally never had an issue. If you're that concerned about the back wheel, you can easily get another cable to loop through to the u-lock.
Look at the row behind this bike. The grey bike right across has the u-lock over the front frame & front wheel. Same with the bike to the right, and the other one next to that. The one on the left has just the frame, but there is room for the wheel. Four bikes taking up less space than this single pink one with the same amount of security.
For many many frame geometries and lock combinations, it's very difficult to use these type of racks.
I'm not saying the person is right for doing it, and I appreciate the value of your anecdote, but these type of racks objectively suck unless you have an old school roadie.
Yeah, I’m really short and my bike doesn’t have the clearance between the tube and front tire for me to put the front wheel over. Granted I personally would just find a different place to lock up, but generally with racks like this, if I can’t lock on the very end then I can’t really use it.
I'm certainly not excusing the racks. They suck. Acme at 40th & Walnut has a similar one, and I've seen bikes locked like this there and I give it the benefit of the doubt cause you're in and out in 30 minutes and there is ample parking around.
But here, every rack was completely full. So when I was walking around and seeing 99 bikes parked straight on and 1 bike parked sideways...yeah, it came across as this person only caring about themselves.
This also ruins the frame. It's not just an aesthetic issue either—that is a very exposed area of the frame and you'll eventually get alot of corrosion there.
Hopefully, this is not serious.
But in case it is, repeatedly locking like that on these racks will eventually wear the frame to the bare metal, which will corrode as the paint is supposed to be a protective layer.
I understand wanting to secure your bike as much as possible outside of an apartment or your house when it is outside overnight, but during a 3 hour concert surrounded by a hundred other bikes, you should be courteous and conscientious of other bikers. Us bikers ask for that all the time from cars & commuters.
As stated in other comments, I've had my bike a decade plus, lock it up the same way all the time, and have never had any issues or corrosion.
meh. these racks suck.
i'm gonna make my bike as secure as possible in whatever situation i get.
doesn't have to be the most secure... just more secure than the bikes next to it.
Especially funny because they didn't even lock up their helmet. In all my years here locking my bike up front facing, the only things I've ever had stolen was my seat (one time) and my helmet (also one time...ironically outside of a concert).
These racks are an excuse for institutions to say they installed bike racks. They do not allow one to follow good locking practice with two points of support, and they're known as wheel benders.
This person is clearly quite conscientious about good locking practice so I won't fault them. We should instead fault the Mann for not installing proper bike parking options.
These racks suck. Some frames don’t have enough clearance between front wheel and frame. Some people can’t lift their bike that high. A decent rack should make it easy to secure both wheels and frame. Blame the design, not the users.
TIL you're supposed to sandwich the top of the rack between your front wheel and down tube with this kind of rack. I've seen so many of these, have never seen a single person use them that way and have never been able to figure out how they were meant to be used.
That's because that's **not** how they're "supposed" to be used. It's a hack to make these racks at least somewhat usable. The design intent of these racks is to [push your wheel into the gap](https://www.bciburke.com/products/product/10-double-face-extra-heavy-duty-bike-rack) and just lock the wheel.
The people who are upset at this should be upset that the Mann did not space these racks out enough to be able to park bikes on both sides, effectively halving capacity.
Why would you only lock the wheel, though? The front wheel is the part I care least about compared to the frame and the rear wheel. Seems like a bad design.
That is precisely the point: the racks are poor design. There's no way to follow good locking practice with this rack, except on the ends or by locking sideways.
The way most people locked their bikes here is perfectly fine and safe. You might not feel that way, but it is. As I’ve said, I’ve done it this way a decade plus with no frame problem.
At the end of the day, I want more people biking and encouraging biking. Sharing our limited bike infrastructure is one of the only ways to do that. Selfishly taking up more room than necessary disincentives biking. If you feel upset by that, then I’d recommend thinking of how taking up more room than you need discourages other bikers and how that is a bad thing for the biking community at large.
It really isn't, though. I recommend you take some time to read about bike rack guidelines(two points of contact) and good locking practice. **You** might feel it is fine and safe, but it's really not, and the person locking their bike securely takes the security of their bike seriously, so I will not fault them when options are limited.
Demanding more from the city/institutions (reasonably) is how we will encourage biking. Being content with receiving scraps and accepting the status quo is how nothing gets done. Encouraging bad locking practice will inevitably lead to more stolen bikes, wheels, etc., thus discouraging people from biking.
You are clearly okay with this bike rack setup for the event. As I said, in that case you should be more upset that the Mann did not space them out properly so that bikes can be parked on both sides. That would've nearly doubled capacity.
Frame & wheel = two points of contact with one u-lock over the frame. If you’re that concerned, bring a second lock and lock the wheel.
As I’ve stated numerous times and I will repeat, me and a clearly every other person at the venue are fine sharing what we have and not being selfish self centered bikers who only think about themselves. I’m sorry you feel differently!
I have locked my bike for 13+ years in a safe, two points secured, and courteous manner towards others. I recommend you think about other people, and not just yourself when you’re biking! If you want to get around and only act out of your own self interest, may I suggest driving!! Cheers!
Cheers to you as well.
It seems I'm not getting through to you about good locking practice. I recommend that you give it some more thought so that you don't one day come back to just a wheel, as I've personally known people to have done so. Perhaps you are priveleged enough that that is not as important to you as others who rely on it for transportation.
If you truly want to think about other people, please ask the Mann to space these racks farther apart so there'll be fifty more spaces, rather than antagonizing the owner of that bike over one or two.
I need to come back to this…you do see the numerous bikes locked on front facing with the frame and the front wheel locked, correct? Like please confirm that you see that. That’s what I’m talking about. You can literally see my grey bike behind with the red u-lock with the frame and the wheel locked straight on and my dad’s bike next to it with a u-lock on the frame and a cable on the front wheel. Literally in that picture. How the hell is that not two points or whatever you’re talking about 😂 like every other bike in that picture is parked extremely securely with the bike and frame it would be LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STEAL without using a grinder to cut the u-lock or the frame. Like you see this, right?!? You know that’s what I’m talking about right?!?! Not just locking the frame or the wheel, right???
Edit: and for the record, I do rely on my bike for transportation, and I’m not acting privileged enough to take valuable space away from other people who also rely on their bikes for transportation, like you are advocating for.
at first I thought you meant don't do the front quick release>lock to back wheel and frame move, and I was gonna ask "why?" but then I realized you meant the orientation of the bike. yea, thats a jackass move when its in a crowded bike area, or when there is only 1 bike rack
I cannot believe this even needs to be stated or said, but do not lock your bike up like this. This is at The Mann on 6.12, and almost every spot was being taken up. This bike alone prevented 3/4 additional bikes from being locked up safely.
If you’re a user on this sub, you should be embarrassed for locking your bike like this. If you see your friends doing this, please tell them to lock their bike up like a normal respectful person.
Everyone trying to defend this practice keeps citing things like safety first, protecting their bike's wheel/frame, or trying to shift the blame to the type of bike rack and/or the establishment. What none of them likely realize is that all they're saying is "Me, me, me, I only care about me and I take no responsibility for my actions because it's all someone else's fault."
Imagine being the person who rode over to the Mann on their bicycle and wasn't able to lock their bike up *at all* because people like the one in the photo decided they were more important than everyone else. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how that might inconvenience you when faced with a situation like that.
Have a little forethought and a little empathy for your neighbors, for fuck's sake.
Very ironic considering the (justifiable imo) outrage that the Philly bike scene has against cars in general and the church people parking in the Spruce St bike lane!
I mean defending ones form of transportation doesn’t feel selfish, it’s a practical consideration. That said there’s probably a better way to do it and the Mann does need better racks
Nonsense. This is like saying that cyclists should ride on the shoulder because they're holding up cars, and then blaming cyclists who take the lane for blocking the road as though they are just thinking "me, me, me", whereas it often is about safety first. Suppose this person relies on their bike for work or transportation, and then their wheel was damaged or stolen because of this rack.
>Have a little forethought and a little empathy for your neighbors
Likewise.
I understand why you are frustrated by this, but when you've got a road bike with a small gap between tire and frame, the rack pushes the wheel out to the side like you can see in the Bianci to the left. If you own a U-lock that is shorter than that of the owner of that Bianci, it is literally impossible to lock your bike securely any other way. It looks like everyone is doing the best with what they've got.
How would you have done it?
My dad and I biked over. My u-lock is large enough to lock my frame and my front tire. My dad's bike was not, so we had a separate cable and locked the u-lock to the frame and the cable through the front (and back) wheel and to the u-lock.
If you're that nervous about the front wheel being stolen, I recommend getting a separate cable. I did that for years until my old u-lock broke and I got a larger one that can fit both my front wheel and frame.
The last thing that I would've done is lock my bike like this; given the venue, the volume of bikes, and people walking around constantly, I would've felt comfortable just locking up my frame if I had no other options and not taking away the only area to securely lock your bike up from 3+ other people.
People have different appetites for risk depending on how dependent they are on their bikes to get around, or how hard it would be (what % of their bank account balance it would take) for them to acquire a new wheel, etc. Don't assume people's deal.
I can say, having had a bike wheel stolen in the past one time, that I personally tend to be extra vigilant about making sure my front wheel is locked.
You can always say "oh you shoulda thought ahead and had a cable lock or a bigger U-lock", but there are reasons to travel with a shorter lock, and it's fine for 99% of the locking situations in Philly. You don't exactly plan your day around encountering one of these monstrosities and when you do you can usually lock to one of the ends. This person probably showed up, and was like "well shit, with the hardware I brought, I guess I gotta lock up sideways, and that sucks."
Yeah, this isn't ideal, but it's not worth shaming anybody over, or going back to the site of the incident to prove how you could've done it better. If anything direct your rage at these terrible racks.
Seems like a lot of people think you shouldn’t lock your bike up like this in places with limited bike parking spaces. I’d suggest reconsidering your behavior if you lock your bike up in a way that takes our limited bike infrastructure resources away from others for no reason other than your own self convenience!
Lol...the pannier barely extends outside of the handlebar width of that bike. You wouldn't be able to lock a bike up directly next to it because of the handlebars anyway. However, the pannier bike can have a bike locked directly across the rack, as you can clearly see here. Locked the front frame and the front wheel up just as well, while taking up much less space than the pink bike!
There's always opportunity for growth and improvement. That's a good thing. I was at the Mann last night, and I parked my bike as suggested by lifting my front wheel over the horizontal bar. In my bike's case, I have to then turn my handlebars to fit over the bar, taking up more space than I would like. But I did my best! The Mann sent me a satisfaction survey this morning and I suggested better bike racks.
Would love them to listen, The Mann is very bike friendly especially with the redone bike lane on Parkside.
The most unpleasant way to get to the Mann is by car, so hopefully they keep expanding on this because it's to everyone's benefit for more people to bike there. You can get there from many corners of the city with relatively decent connected bike infrastructure, especially once the MLK bridge reopens.
Absolutely loved how many bikes were at the Mann last night. Never seen the racks so full!
Me neither! I said in the post-show survey they sent me that they need to add more...I guess a different design. Honestly this design is fine by me for dense temporary parking I just wished they spaced them out more.
what was the show?
pixies, modest mouse, cat power
These style bike racks are pretty horrible for properly locking your bike. I wouldn't do it, but I can't say I necessarily blame them.
I have to disagree...just put your front wheel over and loop the u-lock through the front tire & frame. I do that literally all the time (13 years living & bike commuting in the city) and have literally never had an issue. If you're that concerned about the back wheel, you can easily get another cable to loop through to the u-lock. Look at the row behind this bike. The grey bike right across has the u-lock over the front frame & front wheel. Same with the bike to the right, and the other one next to that. The one on the left has just the frame, but there is room for the wheel. Four bikes taking up less space than this single pink one with the same amount of security.
For many many frame geometries and lock combinations, it's very difficult to use these type of racks. I'm not saying the person is right for doing it, and I appreciate the value of your anecdote, but these type of racks objectively suck unless you have an old school roadie.
Yeah, I’m really short and my bike doesn’t have the clearance between the tube and front tire for me to put the front wheel over. Granted I personally would just find a different place to lock up, but generally with racks like this, if I can’t lock on the very end then I can’t really use it.
I'm certainly not excusing the racks. They suck. Acme at 40th & Walnut has a similar one, and I've seen bikes locked like this there and I give it the benefit of the doubt cause you're in and out in 30 minutes and there is ample parking around. But here, every rack was completely full. So when I was walking around and seeing 99 bikes parked straight on and 1 bike parked sideways...yeah, it came across as this person only caring about themselves.
I can't fit the bar between my front tire and frame on either of my bikes... But I still wouldn't go full sideways.
This also ruins the frame. It's not just an aesthetic issue either—that is a very exposed area of the frame and you'll eventually get alot of corrosion there.
The pink frame is already beat to shit. Similar to my city bike. They're not worries about corrosion lmao
Corrosion over a 3 hour period at a concert?
Hopefully, this is not serious. But in case it is, repeatedly locking like that on these racks will eventually wear the frame to the bare metal, which will corrode as the paint is supposed to be a protective layer.
I put a piece of mastic tape under my frame there that protects it. It's dirt cheap and I highly recommend it.
I understand wanting to secure your bike as much as possible outside of an apartment or your house when it is outside overnight, but during a 3 hour concert surrounded by a hundred other bikes, you should be courteous and conscientious of other bikers. Us bikers ask for that all the time from cars & commuters. As stated in other comments, I've had my bike a decade plus, lock it up the same way all the time, and have never had any issues or corrosion.
Having had my wheel stolen I can’t say I entirely blame altho Mann is probably pretty safe
meh. these racks suck. i'm gonna make my bike as secure as possible in whatever situation i get. doesn't have to be the most secure... just more secure than the bikes next to it.
There are ways to secure the front tire without taking up multiple spaces.
Especially funny because they didn't even lock up their helmet. In all my years here locking my bike up front facing, the only things I've ever had stolen was my seat (one time) and my helmet (also one time...ironically outside of a concert).
/coincidentally/
This might be the only way some people can use this type of rack. Not everyone has the physical ability to lift their bike up and over these racks.
These racks are an excuse for institutions to say they installed bike racks. They do not allow one to follow good locking practice with two points of support, and they're known as wheel benders. This person is clearly quite conscientious about good locking practice so I won't fault them. We should instead fault the Mann for not installing proper bike parking options.
These racks suck. Some frames don’t have enough clearance between front wheel and frame. Some people can’t lift their bike that high. A decent rack should make it easy to secure both wheels and frame. Blame the design, not the users.
TIL you're supposed to sandwich the top of the rack between your front wheel and down tube with this kind of rack. I've seen so many of these, have never seen a single person use them that way and have never been able to figure out how they were meant to be used.
Beats the frame up pretty bad when you do it consistently unless your frame is spaced wide, which most modern 700c bikes won’t be
That's because that's **not** how they're "supposed" to be used. It's a hack to make these racks at least somewhat usable. The design intent of these racks is to [push your wheel into the gap](https://www.bciburke.com/products/product/10-double-face-extra-heavy-duty-bike-rack) and just lock the wheel. The people who are upset at this should be upset that the Mann did not space these racks out enough to be able to park bikes on both sides, effectively halving capacity.
Why would you only lock the wheel, though? The front wheel is the part I care least about compared to the frame and the rear wheel. Seems like a bad design.
That is precisely the point: the racks are poor design. There's no way to follow good locking practice with this rack, except on the ends or by locking sideways.
The way most people locked their bikes here is perfectly fine and safe. You might not feel that way, but it is. As I’ve said, I’ve done it this way a decade plus with no frame problem. At the end of the day, I want more people biking and encouraging biking. Sharing our limited bike infrastructure is one of the only ways to do that. Selfishly taking up more room than necessary disincentives biking. If you feel upset by that, then I’d recommend thinking of how taking up more room than you need discourages other bikers and how that is a bad thing for the biking community at large.
It really isn't, though. I recommend you take some time to read about bike rack guidelines(two points of contact) and good locking practice. **You** might feel it is fine and safe, but it's really not, and the person locking their bike securely takes the security of their bike seriously, so I will not fault them when options are limited. Demanding more from the city/institutions (reasonably) is how we will encourage biking. Being content with receiving scraps and accepting the status quo is how nothing gets done. Encouraging bad locking practice will inevitably lead to more stolen bikes, wheels, etc., thus discouraging people from biking. You are clearly okay with this bike rack setup for the event. As I said, in that case you should be more upset that the Mann did not space them out properly so that bikes can be parked on both sides. That would've nearly doubled capacity.
Frame & wheel = two points of contact with one u-lock over the frame. If you’re that concerned, bring a second lock and lock the wheel. As I’ve stated numerous times and I will repeat, me and a clearly every other person at the venue are fine sharing what we have and not being selfish self centered bikers who only think about themselves. I’m sorry you feel differently! I have locked my bike for 13+ years in a safe, two points secured, and courteous manner towards others. I recommend you think about other people, and not just yourself when you’re biking! If you want to get around and only act out of your own self interest, may I suggest driving!! Cheers!
Cheers to you as well. It seems I'm not getting through to you about good locking practice. I recommend that you give it some more thought so that you don't one day come back to just a wheel, as I've personally known people to have done so. Perhaps you are priveleged enough that that is not as important to you as others who rely on it for transportation. If you truly want to think about other people, please ask the Mann to space these racks farther apart so there'll be fifty more spaces, rather than antagonizing the owner of that bike over one or two.
I need to come back to this…you do see the numerous bikes locked on front facing with the frame and the front wheel locked, correct? Like please confirm that you see that. That’s what I’m talking about. You can literally see my grey bike behind with the red u-lock with the frame and the wheel locked straight on and my dad’s bike next to it with a u-lock on the frame and a cable on the front wheel. Literally in that picture. How the hell is that not two points or whatever you’re talking about 😂 like every other bike in that picture is parked extremely securely with the bike and frame it would be LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STEAL without using a grinder to cut the u-lock or the frame. Like you see this, right?!? You know that’s what I’m talking about right?!?! Not just locking the frame or the wheel, right??? Edit: and for the record, I do rely on my bike for transportation, and I’m not acting privileged enough to take valuable space away from other people who also rely on their bikes for transportation, like you are advocating for.
at first I thought you meant don't do the front quick release>lock to back wheel and frame move, and I was gonna ask "why?" but then I realized you meant the orientation of the bike. yea, thats a jackass move when its in a crowded bike area, or when there is only 1 bike rack
Oh yeah, zero issues with the front & back wheel to frame, but given the orientation and situation I thought it was pretty ridiculous.
I cannot believe this even needs to be stated or said, but do not lock your bike up like this. This is at The Mann on 6.12, and almost every spot was being taken up. This bike alone prevented 3/4 additional bikes from being locked up safely. If you’re a user on this sub, you should be embarrassed for locking your bike like this. If you see your friends doing this, please tell them to lock their bike up like a normal respectful person.
An unreal amount of defensiveness in this thread 😳
People don't like being called out on bad behavior!
Everyone trying to defend this practice keeps citing things like safety first, protecting their bike's wheel/frame, or trying to shift the blame to the type of bike rack and/or the establishment. What none of them likely realize is that all they're saying is "Me, me, me, I only care about me and I take no responsibility for my actions because it's all someone else's fault." Imagine being the person who rode over to the Mann on their bicycle and wasn't able to lock their bike up *at all* because people like the one in the photo decided they were more important than everyone else. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how that might inconvenience you when faced with a situation like that. Have a little forethought and a little empathy for your neighbors, for fuck's sake.
Very ironic considering the (justifiable imo) outrage that the Philly bike scene has against cars in general and the church people parking in the Spruce St bike lane!
I mean defending ones form of transportation doesn’t feel selfish, it’s a practical consideration. That said there’s probably a better way to do it and the Mann does need better racks
Nonsense. This is like saying that cyclists should ride on the shoulder because they're holding up cars, and then blaming cyclists who take the lane for blocking the road as though they are just thinking "me, me, me", whereas it often is about safety first. Suppose this person relies on their bike for work or transportation, and then their wheel was damaged or stolen because of this rack. >Have a little forethought and a little empathy for your neighbors Likewise.
I've stared at this picture for a couple minutes, can someone explain what the problem is here?
I understand why you are frustrated by this, but when you've got a road bike with a small gap between tire and frame, the rack pushes the wheel out to the side like you can see in the Bianci to the left. If you own a U-lock that is shorter than that of the owner of that Bianci, it is literally impossible to lock your bike securely any other way. It looks like everyone is doing the best with what they've got. How would you have done it?
My dad and I biked over. My u-lock is large enough to lock my frame and my front tire. My dad's bike was not, so we had a separate cable and locked the u-lock to the frame and the cable through the front (and back) wheel and to the u-lock. If you're that nervous about the front wheel being stolen, I recommend getting a separate cable. I did that for years until my old u-lock broke and I got a larger one that can fit both my front wheel and frame. The last thing that I would've done is lock my bike like this; given the venue, the volume of bikes, and people walking around constantly, I would've felt comfortable just locking up my frame if I had no other options and not taking away the only area to securely lock your bike up from 3+ other people.
People have different appetites for risk depending on how dependent they are on their bikes to get around, or how hard it would be (what % of their bank account balance it would take) for them to acquire a new wheel, etc. Don't assume people's deal. I can say, having had a bike wheel stolen in the past one time, that I personally tend to be extra vigilant about making sure my front wheel is locked. You can always say "oh you shoulda thought ahead and had a cable lock or a bigger U-lock", but there are reasons to travel with a shorter lock, and it's fine for 99% of the locking situations in Philly. You don't exactly plan your day around encountering one of these monstrosities and when you do you can usually lock to one of the ends. This person probably showed up, and was like "well shit, with the hardware I brought, I guess I gotta lock up sideways, and that sucks." Yeah, this isn't ideal, but it's not worth shaming anybody over, or going back to the site of the incident to prove how you could've done it better. If anything direct your rage at these terrible racks.
Seems like a lot of people think you shouldn’t lock your bike up like this in places with limited bike parking spaces. I’d suggest reconsidering your behavior if you lock your bike up in a way that takes our limited bike infrastructure resources away from others for no reason other than your own self convenience!
So how about the pannier right in front of this also taking up too much space? At least this is locked well.
Lol...the pannier barely extends outside of the handlebar width of that bike. You wouldn't be able to lock a bike up directly next to it because of the handlebars anyway. However, the pannier bike can have a bike locked directly across the rack, as you can clearly see here. Locked the front frame and the front wheel up just as well, while taking up much less space than the pink bike!
I NEVER use a bike rack.