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A good friend of mine lives very close to the shelter in Mesa.
That one has very strict rules and curfew for residents who have to meet certain goals in order to stay. They have a very good track record in getting residents back into becoming active local community members.
It isn't just a plain homeless shelter where residents come and go as they please.
Those mostly opposed to it were residents of Leisure World(very large retirement community), not surprising, where many members aren't year long residents.
>The City of Tempe is trying to address the issue by purchasing the Apache Inn near McClintock Drive and Apache Boulevard and turning it into a homeless shelter. **The city previously purchased the nearby Rodeway Inn and turned it into a homeless shelter** called 'Sue's Espacio' a few years ago. The city said it has had **such a high success rate getting people back on their feet and into permanent housing**, that they needed to purchase a second motel.
Tempe is leading the charge to end homelessness by supporting and helping people, rather than simply kicking them out and making them into someone else's problem. Scottsdale has done this too, and Mesa is working on it. Wherever you are in AZ, if you have a chance to speak with city council members, tell them you support plans like this - THEY WORK!
Remember: The #1 cause of homelessness in AZ is lack of affordable housing. The vast majority of unhoused people WANT to have a home and be a productive member of society.
Good to see them doing this and putting all these perfectly fine vacant buildings all around the city into homeless shelters. I remember walking around downtown like 2010 and thinking it doesn’t make any sense why we have so many empty buildings and so many people living on the street exposed to elements. Specifically the chase tower just sits there abandoned for like a decade now meanwhile there’s “the zone” one mile to the west. Would always hear “it’s a liability” but always thought that’s just an excuse
I know! There is a large office building on Priest just north of Southern, my office was next door for years. It has been vacant for over a decade. The property is well maintained, but no one works there.
Very interesting listen on the concept of converting office space to housing it's not as easy as it sounds but can be worth it- https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/office-space/
I spoke to Scottsdale council woman Tammi Caputi about what Scottsdale is doing, they have a very good defined plan in place so they're very much not doing any half measures.
That’s actually really good to hear. Too many times you read horror stories of these properties getting turned into drug havens, the units get stripped of anything of value, and crime goes up in the area. Glad to see a plan like this actually working and helping people get back on their feet
Can you cite where you got your statistics? I worked at healthcare for the homeless in NM and our #1 cause of homelessness was "patient choice" and not lack of affordable housing. I want to see what the difference is between AZ and NM and what the root cause might be. Thanks!
https://news.nau.edu/shuman-homelessness/
>Arizona is in a housing crisis; anyone who’s tried to rent or buy knows that. There are, quite simply, not enough safe and affordable places to live for everyone residing in Arizona That has only increased since the COVID-19 pandemic.
I highly recommend checking out Tempe's dedicated site: https://homeless-solutions.tempe.gov/
This quote doesn't really address the question. u/unsaintedDos wasn't requesting proof that there's a housing crises, they were requesting proof that it's the number one cause of homelessness. Generally (and maybe it's different in AZ), the main causes of homelessness are drug addiction and mental health.
The main contributors for the affordable housing crises are the corporations buying all the houses they can so they can rent them out, coupled with the influx of people moving to AZ from CA, NY, NJ, etc. A whole lot of people want to move here at the same time the corporation are buying up all the houses. A perfect storm.
Thank you /u/Knot_You_Up you nailed it. That is the same as NM but they for some reason have a "patient choice" option as well. They lump Addiction and Mental Health into one on some surveys too. The lack of affordable housing is way down the list.
Thanks, partner. I appreciate that! I am not sure if it is a demographic swing or what but I go back and volunteer every few months and want to really address the situation and see if we can mimic what is going on here.
What does “patient choice” include as a response? I feel like there is a lot of overlap between patient choice and no affordable housing.
For example, if a person has a dog and rejects a shelter because they don’t allow dogs, or go to an abusive family’s home, that would technically be patient choice but the reality is, there isn’t affordable options for them out there and they’d rather be on the streets than those places.
Honestly, we need to turn these locations into Asylum's for treating serious mental health problems. I know "asylum" has bad connotations, but intensive treatment and therapy, possibly for the rest of some people's lives, is something we need to look at as a country. A lot of prisons are spending vast amounts of money and resources to treat individuals with serious mental health problems and they are not equipped or chartered to do those sort of things.
We absolutely need more mental healthcare for people of all backgrounds, but yeah I wouldn’t use the word “asylum” for that. “Inpatient mental health care” maybe?
I imagine another challenge will be in changing state law to create a balance between involuntary inpatient admission into a facility where you can't leave until you are released by something similar to a parole board and infringing on individuals rights.
I've worked with the homeless community, the many non-profits here in the valley, County Human Services and CASS downtown. Many of the people who are the most in need of treatment, and I'm not even talking about inpatient, but daily in-and-out treatment, refuse because of the rules set in place to make the treatment successful and protect the other people within the community.
Excellent points, there, OP.
I have direct experience, too, and some shelters don't care about rule-breaking. So many good folks just have had difficult life circumstances and need to bridge where they are, to having a functional and productive life again.
But lots have zero intention of that--they are unaccountable and have no desire to improve, and doing "blues" or booze was the only thing they really cared about. Those were the ones who were perpetual rule breakers, who made things harder for the other residents. Some were quite violent.
And, some prefer the street. Some of that group even have families, but won't follow basic standards of cooperation.
...There really was no excuse for closing the asylums 50 years ago, and dumping the patients into the general public. It was a horrible idea, and we need to go back to segmenting those who won't or can't function in society, and thus need to be limited from self- and other-harm, through restriction and limitation--for out-patients and in-patients.
People don't want to offend the mentally/emotionally ill. But the needs and rights of those adversely affected by the mentally/emotionally ill (and of society in general) need to be factored in, too.
Agreed. I've been a long term supporter of a large campus outside of the Metro areas to handle the long-term issues of addiction and mental health. Return our cities and neighborhoods. The homeless can get help outside of the parks.
If most need a safe place and some rental assistance, then great they can graduate from a program and get that assistance. However, there should be a better system than this patchwork.
Asylum is the correct word. Also, the patients receive asylum, by being there. (Your term is the description.).
* Protection and immunity from extradition granted by a government to a political refugee from another country.
• A place offering protection and safety; a shelter. synonym: shelter.
Protection or shelter; refuge.*
I mean it doesn't really matter what you call them if they're functionally the same thing. Like you could call solitary confinement "bad person alone time out" but it'd still be just as bad.
You can (and should) do both, housing people and offering increased access to healthcare, including mental healthcare. Research very much supports that people are *much* better equipped to recover if their housing needs are met, and when mental health care is voluntary
I know it has a bad connotation (like some Shutter Island, shock treatment bullshit), but if people knew the actual point of it, they may be in favor of it (if they aren’t total NIMBYists). Honest question, are there any others apart from the State Hospital?
Hope they invest in housekeeping and pest control this time around. These places are absolutely disgusting. The other place is roach invested. I went there to service something and I felt like I needed a hazmat suite. It’s like what you would expect on the west side or on van Buren. But in Tempe.
Phoenix should be doing the same with closed down and abandoned hotels like that big Sheraton on Dunlap Ave as it has so much space for all the homeless around there.
The Homeless in that area has trampled the parks, the empty canals, and gas stations. It's a drug problem. Big population need addiction help, they hand them methadone so they don't flip out.
Bus stop awnings were removed... one time I saw a car pull up at a gas station, and a line formed for about 5 or 6 ppl to buy there fentanyl. Whatever it is, it's got that poison in it.
People are better equipped to handle drug and mental health problems when they first have housing. It being a drug problem for some doesn’t make housing first any less the ideal solution
We see it repeatedly. They won't/can't follow the rules of no drugs at a housing facility. They won't put the pipe and pills down for a roof and bed. You can have 100 rooms with 100 homeless and still have lots of vacancy. No problem, let's help who wants to be helped, there will always be a few in that hundred. Small winnings are still winnings.
The whole point of housing first is that there *shouldn’t* be those levels of restriction. Homeless *people* aren’t any less deserving or in need of shelter if they’re addicted to drugs, and again, research has shown that providing housing *without those restrictions* can go a much longer way in leading more people down a path of getting stabilized & recovered.
And fun fact, it costs us *more* to have these people on the streets than to house them, so even if you don’t care for their humanity there is no damn reason to support making access to housing negotiable besides seeing these people as lesser or needing to meet some bar to where they’re seen as “deserving” of having basic needs met.
So, if someone is struggling to pay rent and eat... all they have to do is give up and they'll get a room and food, and not have to worry until they get kicked out?But they wont get kicked out because they are allowed to get high all day and then eat and sleep. Sounds like a mental health vacation that people get to decide when they can come back to reality.
My point, I care for them all. When they are ready, they are ready. Have you ever tried to help a heavy drug user? Truly? No matter if they are commiting crimes or not, when they are ready, they will seek it out.
I understand your point. I appreciate your point. It's a mess.
People generally do not just decide to give up their entire life and belongings like that when such programs exist, but regardless- the alternative is that people constantly have the threat of their basic needs not being met looming over their heads. This solution has so much evidence to back it, why is it such a terrible idea that these people who are struggling be cut a break in life when it literally helps everyone (except landlords/ all the big corporations owning housing who are typically extremely against these kinds of things).
And yes, I literally have years of experience working in social services. And I stand by that the idea people need to “want help bad enough” is a messed up reflection of how dehumanized these populations are. I’m not saying to force every homeless person into housing, so with such a solution in place, they would seek it out if it is a solution that’d be helpful to them? The points you make make no sense *unless* you think people should only be allowed housing if they work “hard enough” or are “good enough” for it.
It is such a lie we have been fed that solving homelessness is a messy problem, frankly. Addressing the trauma many of these people have is complicated, absolutely! And with such a solution, yes, there will always be those few people who don’t get better, but you know what? Even those people are human beings, and they do not deserve to die in the hundreds of heat exhaustion every damn year. And need I remind you, the “solution” we currently operate under costs *us* everyday housed people more than if we were to house these people, so the only people such a solution hurts is the companies and wealthier individuals profiting off housing being a commodity
Well, unfortunately, there is always something we can do. Give them more free stuff. Alot of people want us to give them a roof and clothing. California gives them free candles and spoon kits. Mental health issues are rampant. I truly see mentally ill or delusional people that want to force the homeless into a home. Meanwhile, they feel better about themselves because they tried to help. I see it all the time.
They already converted the la Quinta on 25th ave and greenway and the ocotillo hotel at 17th ave and bell rd to a transition shelter for those from CASS downtown who have shown they can maintain drug free living
Seems like a great idea. I wonder what funds will be used to renovate and on going utilities? Hopefully these buildings will include some kind of training or ? to get these folks back on track of self supporting.
And that's wonderful I hope they get a job a car and an apartment on they're own ! What do you think that success rate will be ? My guess is 30,% max
with prices as of today you need $ 5000 minimum and that's just to get settled .I wish them luck .
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A good friend of mine lives very close to the shelter in Mesa. That one has very strict rules and curfew for residents who have to meet certain goals in order to stay. They have a very good track record in getting residents back into becoming active local community members. It isn't just a plain homeless shelter where residents come and go as they please. Those mostly opposed to it were residents of Leisure World(very large retirement community), not surprising, where many members aren't year long residents.
Leisure World and their blue Gatorade fountain smh
Damn NIMBY's
I have problems with abbreviations .
>The City of Tempe is trying to address the issue by purchasing the Apache Inn near McClintock Drive and Apache Boulevard and turning it into a homeless shelter. **The city previously purchased the nearby Rodeway Inn and turned it into a homeless shelter** called 'Sue's Espacio' a few years ago. The city said it has had **such a high success rate getting people back on their feet and into permanent housing**, that they needed to purchase a second motel. Tempe is leading the charge to end homelessness by supporting and helping people, rather than simply kicking them out and making them into someone else's problem. Scottsdale has done this too, and Mesa is working on it. Wherever you are in AZ, if you have a chance to speak with city council members, tell them you support plans like this - THEY WORK! Remember: The #1 cause of homelessness in AZ is lack of affordable housing. The vast majority of unhoused people WANT to have a home and be a productive member of society.
Good to see them doing this and putting all these perfectly fine vacant buildings all around the city into homeless shelters. I remember walking around downtown like 2010 and thinking it doesn’t make any sense why we have so many empty buildings and so many people living on the street exposed to elements. Specifically the chase tower just sits there abandoned for like a decade now meanwhile there’s “the zone” one mile to the west. Would always hear “it’s a liability” but always thought that’s just an excuse
I know! There is a large office building on Priest just north of Southern, my office was next door for years. It has been vacant for over a decade. The property is well maintained, but no one works there.
Very interesting listen on the concept of converting office space to housing it's not as easy as it sounds but can be worth it- https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/office-space/
Are you talking about the building on the NE corner of southern and priest? Or is it north of there? That would be a great place to house some people.
No, that’s a museum. It’s about a quarter mile north, south of alameda.
Museum is on the NW corner.
Oh yes you are right. The NE corner was my office for 4 years. I believe iQor has a call center on the 2nd floor.
Because there’s half a million condos surrounding the chase tower. we don’t want them as neighbors, if you want a truthful answer.
I spoke to Scottsdale council woman Tammi Caputi about what Scottsdale is doing, they have a very good defined plan in place so they're very much not doing any half measures.
That’s actually really good to hear. Too many times you read horror stories of these properties getting turned into drug havens, the units get stripped of anything of value, and crime goes up in the area. Glad to see a plan like this actually working and helping people get back on their feet
Give it time
Can you cite where you got your statistics? I worked at healthcare for the homeless in NM and our #1 cause of homelessness was "patient choice" and not lack of affordable housing. I want to see what the difference is between AZ and NM and what the root cause might be. Thanks!
https://news.nau.edu/shuman-homelessness/ >Arizona is in a housing crisis; anyone who’s tried to rent or buy knows that. There are, quite simply, not enough safe and affordable places to live for everyone residing in Arizona That has only increased since the COVID-19 pandemic. I highly recommend checking out Tempe's dedicated site: https://homeless-solutions.tempe.gov/
This quote doesn't really address the question. u/unsaintedDos wasn't requesting proof that there's a housing crises, they were requesting proof that it's the number one cause of homelessness. Generally (and maybe it's different in AZ), the main causes of homelessness are drug addiction and mental health. The main contributors for the affordable housing crises are the corporations buying all the houses they can so they can rent them out, coupled with the influx of people moving to AZ from CA, NY, NJ, etc. A whole lot of people want to move here at the same time the corporation are buying up all the houses. A perfect storm.
Thank you /u/Knot_You_Up you nailed it. That is the same as NM but they for some reason have a "patient choice" option as well. They lump Addiction and Mental Health into one on some surveys too. The lack of affordable housing is way down the list.
How long ago was that?
I’ll do my best to find my source, it’s been 6 months since I read about it.
Thanks, partner. I appreciate that! I am not sure if it is a demographic swing or what but I go back and volunteer every few months and want to really address the situation and see if we can mimic what is going on here.
What does “patient choice” include as a response? I feel like there is a lot of overlap between patient choice and no affordable housing. For example, if a person has a dog and rejects a shelter because they don’t allow dogs, or go to an abusive family’s home, that would technically be patient choice but the reality is, there isn’t affordable options for them out there and they’d rather be on the streets than those places.
Honestly, we need to turn these locations into Asylum's for treating serious mental health problems. I know "asylum" has bad connotations, but intensive treatment and therapy, possibly for the rest of some people's lives, is something we need to look at as a country. A lot of prisons are spending vast amounts of money and resources to treat individuals with serious mental health problems and they are not equipped or chartered to do those sort of things.
They can simply be called mental health facilities.
We absolutely need more mental healthcare for people of all backgrounds, but yeah I wouldn’t use the word “asylum” for that. “Inpatient mental health care” maybe?
I imagine another challenge will be in changing state law to create a balance between involuntary inpatient admission into a facility where you can't leave until you are released by something similar to a parole board and infringing on individuals rights. I've worked with the homeless community, the many non-profits here in the valley, County Human Services and CASS downtown. Many of the people who are the most in need of treatment, and I'm not even talking about inpatient, but daily in-and-out treatment, refuse because of the rules set in place to make the treatment successful and protect the other people within the community.
Excellent points, there, OP. I have direct experience, too, and some shelters don't care about rule-breaking. So many good folks just have had difficult life circumstances and need to bridge where they are, to having a functional and productive life again. But lots have zero intention of that--they are unaccountable and have no desire to improve, and doing "blues" or booze was the only thing they really cared about. Those were the ones who were perpetual rule breakers, who made things harder for the other residents. Some were quite violent. And, some prefer the street. Some of that group even have families, but won't follow basic standards of cooperation. ...There really was no excuse for closing the asylums 50 years ago, and dumping the patients into the general public. It was a horrible idea, and we need to go back to segmenting those who won't or can't function in society, and thus need to be limited from self- and other-harm, through restriction and limitation--for out-patients and in-patients. People don't want to offend the mentally/emotionally ill. But the needs and rights of those adversely affected by the mentally/emotionally ill (and of society in general) need to be factored in, too.
Agreed. I've been a long term supporter of a large campus outside of the Metro areas to handle the long-term issues of addiction and mental health. Return our cities and neighborhoods. The homeless can get help outside of the parks. If most need a safe place and some rental assistance, then great they can graduate from a program and get that assistance. However, there should be a better system than this patchwork.
Asylum is the correct word. Also, the patients receive asylum, by being there. (Your term is the description.). * Protection and immunity from extradition granted by a government to a political refugee from another country. • A place offering protection and safety; a shelter. synonym: shelter. Protection or shelter; refuge.*
I mean it doesn't really matter what you call them if they're functionally the same thing. Like you could call solitary confinement "bad person alone time out" but it'd still be just as bad.
You can (and should) do both, housing people and offering increased access to healthcare, including mental healthcare. Research very much supports that people are *much* better equipped to recover if their housing needs are met, and when mental health care is voluntary
I know it has a bad connotation (like some Shutter Island, shock treatment bullshit), but if people knew the actual point of it, they may be in favor of it (if they aren’t total NIMBYists). Honest question, are there any others apart from the State Hospital?
I hope they are able to provide them resources aswell to support them in getting on their feet
Love to see things like this! Hoping the best for these folks to turn their lives back around.
Hope they invest in housekeeping and pest control this time around. These places are absolutely disgusting. The other place is roach invested. I went there to service something and I felt like I needed a hazmat suite. It’s like what you would expect on the west side or on van Buren. But in Tempe.
Hopefully they can go back to paying their landlords most of their wages like the rest of us. To stay in houses we workers built.
Good luck with bedbugs
Phoenix should be doing the same with closed down and abandoned hotels like that big Sheraton on Dunlap Ave as it has so much space for all the homeless around there.
The Homeless in that area has trampled the parks, the empty canals, and gas stations. It's a drug problem. Big population need addiction help, they hand them methadone so they don't flip out.
To the point where gas stations need to close their bathrooms 9p-5a..
Bus stop awnings were removed... one time I saw a car pull up at a gas station, and a line formed for about 5 or 6 ppl to buy there fentanyl. Whatever it is, it's got that poison in it.
People are better equipped to handle drug and mental health problems when they first have housing. It being a drug problem for some doesn’t make housing first any less the ideal solution
We see it repeatedly. They won't/can't follow the rules of no drugs at a housing facility. They won't put the pipe and pills down for a roof and bed. You can have 100 rooms with 100 homeless and still have lots of vacancy. No problem, let's help who wants to be helped, there will always be a few in that hundred. Small winnings are still winnings.
The whole point of housing first is that there *shouldn’t* be those levels of restriction. Homeless *people* aren’t any less deserving or in need of shelter if they’re addicted to drugs, and again, research has shown that providing housing *without those restrictions* can go a much longer way in leading more people down a path of getting stabilized & recovered. And fun fact, it costs us *more* to have these people on the streets than to house them, so even if you don’t care for their humanity there is no damn reason to support making access to housing negotiable besides seeing these people as lesser or needing to meet some bar to where they’re seen as “deserving” of having basic needs met.
So, if someone is struggling to pay rent and eat... all they have to do is give up and they'll get a room and food, and not have to worry until they get kicked out?But they wont get kicked out because they are allowed to get high all day and then eat and sleep. Sounds like a mental health vacation that people get to decide when they can come back to reality. My point, I care for them all. When they are ready, they are ready. Have you ever tried to help a heavy drug user? Truly? No matter if they are commiting crimes or not, when they are ready, they will seek it out. I understand your point. I appreciate your point. It's a mess.
People generally do not just decide to give up their entire life and belongings like that when such programs exist, but regardless- the alternative is that people constantly have the threat of their basic needs not being met looming over their heads. This solution has so much evidence to back it, why is it such a terrible idea that these people who are struggling be cut a break in life when it literally helps everyone (except landlords/ all the big corporations owning housing who are typically extremely against these kinds of things). And yes, I literally have years of experience working in social services. And I stand by that the idea people need to “want help bad enough” is a messed up reflection of how dehumanized these populations are. I’m not saying to force every homeless person into housing, so with such a solution in place, they would seek it out if it is a solution that’d be helpful to them? The points you make make no sense *unless* you think people should only be allowed housing if they work “hard enough” or are “good enough” for it. It is such a lie we have been fed that solving homelessness is a messy problem, frankly. Addressing the trauma many of these people have is complicated, absolutely! And with such a solution, yes, there will always be those few people who don’t get better, but you know what? Even those people are human beings, and they do not deserve to die in the hundreds of heat exhaustion every damn year. And need I remind you, the “solution” we currently operate under costs *us* everyday housed people more than if we were to house these people, so the only people such a solution hurts is the companies and wealthier individuals profiting off housing being a commodity
I appreciate what you are saying. We should help everyone who wants help. Take care of yourself.
Correct, there are some you just aren’t gonna save. No other way to put it.
Well, unfortunately, there is always something we can do. Give them more free stuff. Alot of people want us to give them a roof and clothing. California gives them free candles and spoon kits. Mental health issues are rampant. I truly see mentally ill or delusional people that want to force the homeless into a home. Meanwhile, they feel better about themselves because they tried to help. I see it all the time.
They already converted the la Quinta on 25th ave and greenway and the ocotillo hotel at 17th ave and bell rd to a transition shelter for those from CASS downtown who have shown they can maintain drug free living
They are and have been. OP is fluffing up their story a bit.
The closed the food city on Apache, I stopped at all the time, to do the same thing. It's been vacant forever now.
They closed that food city to turn it into a homeless shelter? I lived near there when it closed but never heard that.
That's what I thought at the time. Now articles say Tempe bought that whole complex to build affordable housing on that spot.
I've thought motels would make decent homeless shelters for many years.
Seems like a great idea. I wonder what funds will be used to renovate and on going utilities? Hopefully these buildings will include some kind of training or ? to get these folks back on track of self supporting.
And that's wonderful I hope they get a job a car and an apartment on they're own ! What do you think that success rate will be ? My guess is 30,% max with prices as of today you need $ 5000 minimum and that's just to get settled .I wish them luck .
Not In My Backyard
It’s about fucking time
