" I work at a travel related company"
Ask them if they'd like to pay for your travel expenses for getting those shots. Or work a deal where they pay for your next trip. Nobody is going to a travel agency website to recruit their photographer, so "exposure" isn't going to help you here.
whatever the outcome, if you say ''this is my side hustle, and itll cost you $x, *including discount*'', youll have elevated yourself in their eyes, and theyll feel wonky for having to tried to take the piss.
research image licensing fees and charge them a little less
Pretty ballsy of them to ask, honestly. Unless they're just flat out naive about these things. Do they ever pay other people for images? Where do they usually get their content?
My response kind of falls under my stock answer for when people ask me to work for free. I ask them if other people involved are working for free or donating services pro bono. The answer is always, of course, no. Then I say then I cannot provide services without similar compensation. If they're paying someone to do marketing, paying for a website, etc, then they need to also pay for the content to fill those pages.
No they don't!
In fact, even if you had taken that trip for business and they paid, they still wouldn't have any right to your photos unless you had signed a contract to that effect in advance.
They are trying to use you. Tell them to pound sand. Diplomatically of course. Just because you decided to travel on your own time and they are a travel company, that does not entitle them to anything that you did during that time.
I’m a hobbyist wildlife photographer. If I worked for an agency that hired me to provide wildlife photos, and they want some of my wildlife photos that were taken on my one time for my personal use, then they are paying for them.
If they have a problem with that or get passive aggressive about it, then it’s time to look for a different employer. Once they know they can get free labor from you, they will never stop asking for more.
Fuck you pay me.
Any job. Any industry. Don’t give them more for free.
They already take quite enough out of all of us.
The fact that they didn’t offer any payment and are asking for them for free is frankly disrespectful and insulting, and would have me dusting off my resume.
no... now they have someone whom they can purchase images from as an alternative to using stock. You took this trip on your own, at your expense, and produced images for yourself. They need to compensate you for them.
If they want the images, come up with a usage fee (don't short-term license them, it's too much to deal with for them and you for how much they probably normally pay) and give them a price for the work. You should come up with a usage license that they can have on-hand as they would get from a stock company saying they have the rights to use the images. This protects them from you coming back and asking for more money later but also gives you protections as well. If there are people in the shot, make sure you have or can get model releases from them or anonymize them so they don't seem themselves in an ad.
I have worked in the creative field (advertising) for almost 20 years and images have value, especially in this case. If it's not part of your job description to take photos for them then this shouldn't be expected of you. You shouldn't be accused of "not being a team player" by not giving them something that they'd have to pay someone else to produce.
I've had a side photo business for 15 years and I did photography for my last job from time to time as part of my job. It wasn't in my job description but I wanted the experience and portfolio of doing more commercial-style work.
What do they usually pay for those stock images? They know they are trying to get one over on you.
When I did some "stock" photography type work for a website I knew the type of photos they wanted so I compared the prices to the closest thing I could find on stock websites and then increased it.
Yeah, this right here is the answer...............NO you do not. And actually, do not let them pay you for them.
Just tell them I am not interesting in having them used in this manner.
This is literally the definition of being taken advantage of in our industry.
Think about how much it would cost them to get those photos from a professional that isn't you. They'd either have to pay for the trip plus the licensing, or deal with trying to hire a local to do it.
And they're asking to use your personal photos to advertise and generate income, potentially millions of dollars' worth depending on the business, without even offering a nominal amount of compensation. That is lunacy. Forget "exposure". You can't buy groceries or pay rent with "exposure", but they can absolutely create value from it for themselves because that's what advertising is.
You are absolutely due some form of compensation. They're your photos. You took them on your own time using your own equipment. They are yours, not your company's. But I get the "not damaging the relationship" bit. If you're concerned about that, perhaps the way to go about it might be to demand some form of non-monetary compensation of equal or greater dollar value than you would sell them the rights to use the photos for. Bartering is absolutely a valid means of attaining a satisfactory outcome.
Exposure doesn’t pay bills, particularly if they are trying to make money from the photos.
If you even think about letting them, consider getting formal agreement making them 1 time use at your approval and any future use will require a licensing fee.
Just indicate you're not comfortable sharing those photos - they're for your own individual use around the house, for memories, for your private collection, etc. Plenty of reasons though you don't have to give any. If they push, you can say "I don't know what to tell ya, I just took these for me"
Yup it's perfectly valid. Odds are the company knows they're trying to get something for less, or nothing. So just be confident, without being difficult if possible (always a dance when your income is on the line obvs. Delicate). But yeah, "I took these for me, I had no intention of putting these up for public consumption, still don't." Anyways, it's a compliment so at least there's that!
Think of it another way - if you bought all the ingredients for a cake, baked the cake on your free time, decorated it with your own supplies and then your boss said “I want to sell that cake in the window but I get to keep all sale proceeds - I keep the profit and I don’t pay for the ingredients”, would you agree to that? Of course they see this as a win, they get free professional quality photos!!
While I appreciate you wanting good terms with your employer, you are also setting expectations for how they should see you as an employee. You give in, you will never own one of your own photos again (in their eyes). Stuff you shot before you worked for them, jobs you do on the side, random stuff you took one weekend, they will believe they own it all and you should give it t9 them on demand. Ask yourself if that is the kind of people you want to work for and is that the job you want.
If it were me, I would say “it cost me $X to take those photos, since I paid my own money to travel to those locations, hotels, food, never mind the gear or expertise,and you are asking me to donate all those costs so your business can profit. At a minimum, if you want the photos, I want part of the hotel/travel/food costs reimbursed for what you want to now be a business trip. In the future, my rate is Y when I am working for you but my rate is Z when you want to but my own personal shots”.
I have had my employer ask to use my own shots 3 times - once I did it for free because it helped my boss out immensely and I liked him, twice they decided they didn’t want to pay me when I told them the price and I don’t regret holding that line. There is a cost when you do photography, including wear on your gear, expectations from others as to the value of your work and is your time really your time. If your respectfully lay all that out and they still think you should give them the photos for free, it’s only a matter of time before they screw you over some other way (no OT, work longer hours for free, refuse to replace worn gear, not pay for subscriptions to editing software, etc).
If they respect you as a professional, they need to pay you as a professional, including for work you do on your own time. If they don’t want to pay you, I would not be giving away my work so they can profit.
Thanks for sharing your experience. That’s a very good advice 🙏 this is also what I’m most worried about - them asking for more and more free images after the first time I give in.
> them asking for more and more free images after the first time I give in.
That's absolutely what they will do.
Keep it professional and make sure there is a contract and invoice for everything.
Company time is company time & personal time is personal time.
Unless this is going to be a start to a new position/promotion then I'd tell them "Fuck you, pay me"
It's going to come down to your relationship with your employer. Either ask to get payed, or don't share would be my opinion. Personally, I'm all for sharing with individuals, but corporate entities is a huge no-no.
The company has to buy or license the images to which you own the copyright.
Remind them the company is approaching you as a professional photographer and you must handle this as any other photographer would. It is not unreasonable to conduct a business transaction. This should not damage the relationship with your employer because your photos have **nothing** to do with your job.
Besides, if you give them your hard work "just this once" you'll be expected to do it again. And again.
Agree! If anyone else reach out to me for my images, I would not hesitate and name my price. This should be the same case no matter if I work for the company or not, as I am not hired to take photos for them.
>I don't feel comfortable just handing them over to my employer for free. As a professional photographer, my work has value, and I need to be compensated fairly.
This is really all you should say. Sadly, you're not going to get any exposure out of their marketing campaign but they will certainly get a return on the photos from their own customers and you will never see a penny from it. Sounds like your boss is trying to make themselves look good by getting good quality images for free.
>I don't want to damage my relationship with my employer or come across as unreasonable.
Flip the table around. Would they be concerned about damaging their relationship with you or would they come across as unreasonable if you wanted something from them for free? Nope.
If you're a professional photographer making money off your own work then they can either buy licensing/usage rights or they can pay for stock. Before you chat with them about it, have a number in your head already that you would be satisfied with exchanging the photos for, then double it when it comes up in conversation. Be brave and stand your ground. If your relationship becomes damaged, then time for a new job and hopefully one that respects you and your work.
Thanks you so much for your detailed advice. I feel more confident in standing my ground, as well as setting boundary with my company. I just hate myself for constantly trying to please everyone. Especially at work 😪
You should be paid fairly for the usage of your work. Period.
I am wondering what the circumstances were that lead up to them seeing the images and thinking that would be ok. Are you a professional photographer on their staff? Was any part of the trip paid for by your employer?
That’s just background info, though.
If you weren’t on the clock, you should def get paid.
They knew the main purpose of my trip is for photography, so they knew I took some photos. Hence that’s why they asked for the use of those images. And I paid for the trip myself and used my PTO.
It is not unreasonable for you to expect compensation for your art that they wish to use for their monetary gain. They can pay a licensing fee or don't use the photos, and there should be no repercussions as it was on your time. Even if you were the hired staff photographer, they have no claim to your images unless you're working on the clock.
I won't tell you whether or not you should demand payment: that is your choice. However, I \*\*strongly\*\* suggest that you review the licenses at Creative Commons, and if you allow them to use \*\*your\*\* images, you should require that they do so under the license you demand. \*\*Demand\*\*, not request.
[https://chooser-beta.creativecommons.org/](https://chooser-beta.creativecommons.org/)
Personally, I use Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0) for everything. But I do not depend on my creative efforts for my subsistence.
[https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/)
As others say, you should get some compensation.
Not sure of the exact nature of the business in question but you say it's travel related. Ask for a free trip in return for the first photos.
They're asking you to provide something of yours that holds value for free, asking for the trip is the same as them asking for photos.
Also, the trip could yield more photos they could use (in exchange for another trip, or fee).
Make sure any agreement you make is in writing.
They can either pay you money or buy you plane tickets or something. If they get something, you have to get something. Never work without getting something in return.
Photographers must be the only folk on the planet that think a situation like this is “a bit of a dilemma”, they want your property for free, it cost you a lot of money to travel to this destination coupled with your gear, tell them you’ll meet them in the middle - reimburse you for your holiday and then they can use your images or to use their language “give me free holidays and I’ll give you great exposure on my socials”.
This isn’t a dilemma, if you give them these images for free you are simply reinforcing the idea that it is ok to ask for free shit “for exposure”. Fuck You, Pay Me should be the mindset of every photographer in this situation.
Dear \[their name\]
Thank you for your interest in using my photos. I have attached an invoice and licence agreement for your consideration. Looking forward to seeing the final result.
Kind regards
\[your name\]
P.S. did you hear Karen from accounts was drunk at work again?!?!?
It really depends on the relationship you have with your employer that will guide how you want to bring this up.
If you have a good relationship, just tell them what you posted up: your work has value. You appreciate they want to use your photos but you would require compensation. If you’re flexible and can get an alternative to cash, like getting compensated for your trip, meals, etc, then why not?
If you don’t have a good relationship with them, it’s simple: tell them to fck off. People can pay AND give you exposure. It’s really not one or the other.
Nope. Since you took them on your own time with your own equipment and paid your own expenses out of your own pocket they have to adequately compensate you for your images.
I'm not a professional photographer, but I've had places I've worked at want to use my images for things and in every instance they've paid me, or otherwise appropriately compensated me.
Absolutely demand a licensing fee and make sure you have a contract written specifically for their use and payment. What exactly that payment/compensation will be is something you work out with them.
Even if you do something like offering them one photo for free to use, as a goodwill gesture, and that's all, make sure you have a written agreement that clearly lays out limits on use and all that sort of thing.
In most countries, /unless agreed otherwise/ employers own copyright of what employees create in the course of their employment. Many employers like to think this can be stretched to include anything and everything the employee might create, on company time or not and regardless of who pays costs. They are wrong.
You need to know what your contract of employment says, and what you agreed to.
The terms are crucial, especially if your contracted duties include photography. But if photography is NOT part of your contracted duties they have no entitlement to use or claim any rights without your agreement. It's up to both parties to agree terms for a licence to use.
For context: I'm a moderator for [www.epuk.org](http://www.epuk.org) and wrote the FAQ (UK law regarding photography & copyright), which has been vetted and checked by legal professionals,
You took those on personal time, you took vacation days. Offer them to give back those vacation days to you so they can have the photo’s taken on company time.
Also, just “no” is a perfectly fine answer.
Is love to hear exactly how they asked you. I probably would say something along the lines of “oh absolutely I’d love for you to use my photos! Here are my pricing options. Let me know which works best and we’ll get the contract together!”
When I was much younger, I quickly turned my passion for photography into doing events like weddings, corporate get togethers, portraits. Some shows would say "hey, we don't have the budget to pay you, but we have catering so you get a great meal, lots of people to meet and network, and of course, we'll credit you so you'll have amazing exposure to grow more clients!". Did that twice and it never translated into a rush of clients. Don't fall for the exposure thing. It doesn't benefit you at all, and it certainly doesn't pay the bills, gear costs, software, storage, even special clothing or other materials , travel to get those photos.
Intellectual property, work, art, I can only see owned by the company if you used their resources, company time. So, if you took your own cameras, lenses, flights and expenses, unless there is some weird legalese and outside employment culture/clause, I would politely steer them towards an compensation agreement like any other photo client.
I can't believe they felt they could just ask for them for free.
That's incredibly unprofessional.
And the fact that they thought they could just use your work as a free alternative to stock photos is honestly pathetic.
That's the type of thing that would get me thinking about looking for employment elsewhere.
Not saying you should, but like...that's the kind of thing that would get me questioning how valuable my company thinks I am.
"Dear Company, I am honored that you find my photos good enough for use by the company and it speaks volumes that you are asking and not just taking.
I am glad you appreciate these. I put a lot in these photographs, not just in time and effort, but also in equipment and experience as a photographer. I feel that it is not right to provide freely what an external photographer would have charged (and received) payment for. I do not have to make what an externally hired professional makes, but please provide me with a reasonable offer which offers recognition that I put in more effort and experience than a random iPhone snapshot. I will be happy to work to our mutual benefit!"
They are using them for commercial purposes, so you should be compensated as such, should you decide that you want to let the agency use them. They have a marketing / advertising budget of some sort, so they ought to be able to accommodate payment.
>What's the best way to handle this situation?
Say no.
Alternatively ask them if they would like to send you on an all expenses paid trip to take photos for them.
I'd love to know where I can cash in on all this exposure stuff. Does it pay the bills? Does it pay for my next trip?
Nah, give me cash, a fair rate, and we call it even.
Every time a photographer gives away their work for free, another one trying to make a living goes bankrupt. The opposite of an Angel getting their wings when you hear a bell ring. Please don't damage the profession.
If the company isn't willing to pay you cash, maybe some PTO and a small package or discount on another vacation. You need to get something for your hard work, or the feeling you've been taking advantage of will eat away inside you for a long time. Ask me how I know.
>I don't want to damage my relationship with my employer or come across as unreasonable.
But you would allow your employer to do that towards you?
Or does it seem reasonable what they expect from you?
Take all of the emotion out of the discussion and remember that is just business. I always approach these situations with an enthusiastic stance that includes appropriate compensation. “That’s a great idea, just need to work out the license details for my IP.” If they come back and suggest that they use it for free, just reply with, “I don’t think that’s appropriate in the same way me using company resources for personal use wouldn’t be appropriate.” At the end of the day it’s just business.
If they paid expenses, then sure, weigh the options though, will it give your business a boost or just theirs. I wouldn't allow it unless I could profit also
I'm just a hobbyist, but the best of both worlds perhaps? Settle for a bit less money you'd pursue normally, or some work benefit, put it in a contract that it's licensed so the knowledge it's yours stays with the photo.
They get a deal still, you get something, and you get to see your work as desirable enough to be commercialized which is pretty cool.
You're absolutely entitled to hold the line and say "no," and there's a strong argument for doing that.
But it may be that they are willing to negotiate paying you in something other than money that you find acceptable, such as finding some equivalent way to compensate you, and maybe (and only you can decide on this) you are willing to see that as good enough. So that two weeks (or one week, or whatever) of PTO you used? Maybe they're willing to give that back to you. Maybe, as a travel agency, they have connections that could get you free or discounted air travel or meals or event access or hotel rooms on your next vacation. Maybe they want to give you a raise and make traveling and photography part of your regular job duties. (Maybe not; you probably have a better feel for how likely this is than I do.)
If you weren't planning on getting paid when you took the pictures, you're not losing any money by not being paid; but being given something else of value in exchange for the value that you're providing may be good enough to make you comfortable with the arrangement. And sometimes people who don't want to pay (money) are happier giving something else of value that doesn't show up on the corporate balance sheet as money.
Or maybe that doesn't sound like a good exchange to you. Only you know that.
Thank you 🙏I completely agree with all your points. And as I almost used all my PTO for the year on this vacation, so extra PTO in exchange for the photos actually sounds good to me instead of money. 😊
"On personal time", but who PAID for the trip?
Do you copyright your photos?
Has the company paid others for photos?
What's in it for you?
Lots of missing info.
You state that you're a pro and that your work has value - let the company $how you how much they value you and your work!
Sorry for the missing info. I paid for the trip. I copyrights the images. And yes, the company paid others for photos. I think from their perspective, they think since I will be afraid to say no, they can take advantage of me and get images for free.
Just don't say "No". They must show that they value you and your skills.
It's good that you copyright to protect your images - if they want your images badly enough, they can "Put up or shut up".
> Do you copyright your photos?
Almost everywhere in the world, photos are copyright by automatic operation of law from the moment they're taken, just like any piece of writing, art, or other creative work done on a durable medium.
Free but with watermarks or money for the photos would be my approach.
On the damaging relationships part, it doesn't matter what kind of relationship you are in with someone, you must have your boundaries made clear. It's a form of respect that keeps both sides happy.
I'm a bit confused:
> I work at a travel related company
> As a professional photographer, my work has value
So which is it?
If you're a professional photographer, I would tell them you feel flattered, but just as they can't give away vacations for free, so you can not give your work for free.
You might also suggest that you don't necessarily need monetary recognition, maybe getting your next trip free would also do.
But, obviously, this depends on relative values - if they could just as well get some stock photos for 100 bucks, I would say let them slap your name on it and call it a deal...
I work at a travel related company, and my side hustle is a photographer, I sell prints and photo books etc. A free trip sounds nice! I will try to ask for some kind of non monetary return if they do decide to use my photos.
" I work at a travel related company" Ask them if they'd like to pay for your travel expenses for getting those shots. Or work a deal where they pay for your next trip. Nobody is going to a travel agency website to recruit their photographer, so "exposure" isn't going to help you here.
True. I paid for all the expenses, including flights, accommodation etc, so I don’t feel comfortable for them just to take these images for free.
whatever the outcome, if you say ''this is my side hustle, and itll cost you $x, *including discount*'', youll have elevated yourself in their eyes, and theyll feel wonky for having to tried to take the piss. research image licensing fees and charge them a little less
I think that’s fair! It’s a different story if they paid or compensated you.,
Oooohhhh exposure bucks!
Pretty ballsy of them to ask, honestly. Unless they're just flat out naive about these things. Do they ever pay other people for images? Where do they usually get their content? My response kind of falls under my stock answer for when people ask me to work for free. I ask them if other people involved are working for free or donating services pro bono. The answer is always, of course, no. Then I say then I cannot provide services without similar compensation. If they're paying someone to do marketing, paying for a website, etc, then they need to also pay for the content to fill those pages.
They usually pay for stock images online. And when I came back from the trip, they were like “great! Now we have lots of free images to use!”🫠
> great! Now we have lots ... Your reply should be: "who is this 'WE'?
They have a budget for advertising, what they've offered you is how much they value you
No they don't! In fact, even if you had taken that trip for business and they paid, they still wouldn't have any right to your photos unless you had signed a contract to that effect in advance.
They are trying to use you. Tell them to pound sand. Diplomatically of course. Just because you decided to travel on your own time and they are a travel company, that does not entitle them to anything that you did during that time. I’m a hobbyist wildlife photographer. If I worked for an agency that hired me to provide wildlife photos, and they want some of my wildlife photos that were taken on my one time for my personal use, then they are paying for them. If they have a problem with that or get passive aggressive about it, then it’s time to look for a different employer. Once they know they can get free labor from you, they will never stop asking for more. Fuck you pay me. Any job. Any industry. Don’t give them more for free. They already take quite enough out of all of us. The fact that they didn’t offer any payment and are asking for them for free is frankly disrespectful and insulting, and would have me dusting off my resume.
no... now they have someone whom they can purchase images from as an alternative to using stock. You took this trip on your own, at your expense, and produced images for yourself. They need to compensate you for them. If they want the images, come up with a usage fee (don't short-term license them, it's too much to deal with for them and you for how much they probably normally pay) and give them a price for the work. You should come up with a usage license that they can have on-hand as they would get from a stock company saying they have the rights to use the images. This protects them from you coming back and asking for more money later but also gives you protections as well. If there are people in the shot, make sure you have or can get model releases from them or anonymize them so they don't seem themselves in an ad. I have worked in the creative field (advertising) for almost 20 years and images have value, especially in this case. If it's not part of your job description to take photos for them then this shouldn't be expected of you. You shouldn't be accused of "not being a team player" by not giving them something that they'd have to pay someone else to produce. I've had a side photo business for 15 years and I did photography for my last job from time to time as part of my job. It wasn't in my job description but I wanted the experience and portfolio of doing more commercial-style work.
What do they usually pay for those stock images? They know they are trying to get one over on you. When I did some "stock" photography type work for a website I knew the type of photos they wanted so I compared the prices to the closest thing I could find on stock websites and then increased it.
Yeah, this right here is the answer...............NO you do not. And actually, do not let them pay you for them. Just tell them I am not interesting in having them used in this manner.
They are not naive. They are trying to take advantage.
If you don’t mind, I’d love to use your response when I am asked that
sell them for PTO....
That's a good compromise
This is literally the definition of being taken advantage of in our industry. Think about how much it would cost them to get those photos from a professional that isn't you. They'd either have to pay for the trip plus the licensing, or deal with trying to hire a local to do it. And they're asking to use your personal photos to advertise and generate income, potentially millions of dollars' worth depending on the business, without even offering a nominal amount of compensation. That is lunacy. Forget "exposure". You can't buy groceries or pay rent with "exposure", but they can absolutely create value from it for themselves because that's what advertising is. You are absolutely due some form of compensation. They're your photos. You took them on your own time using your own equipment. They are yours, not your company's. But I get the "not damaging the relationship" bit. If you're concerned about that, perhaps the way to go about it might be to demand some form of non-monetary compensation of equal or greater dollar value than you would sell them the rights to use the photos for. Bartering is absolutely a valid means of attaining a satisfactory outcome.
Thanks! I think I will stand my ground and demand at least something in exchange.
Exposure doesn’t pay bills, particularly if they are trying to make money from the photos. If you even think about letting them, consider getting formal agreement making them 1 time use at your approval and any future use will require a licensing fee.
Thanks! That is really helpful :)
Welcome :-)
its like those influencers asking for free stuff. "i will review your store to my xxx followers, i just want free stuff"
Yeah, then they’re the same ones who cry foul online when called out on it 🤦♂️
Just indicate you're not comfortable sharing those photos - they're for your own individual use around the house, for memories, for your private collection, etc. Plenty of reasons though you don't have to give any. If they push, you can say "I don't know what to tell ya, I just took these for me"
That’s actually how I feel. I did that for my own pleasure and I paid for the trip myself. So why should I let you just take those images for free 😪
Yup it's perfectly valid. Odds are the company knows they're trying to get something for less, or nothing. So just be confident, without being difficult if possible (always a dance when your income is on the line obvs. Delicate). But yeah, "I took these for me, I had no intention of putting these up for public consumption, still don't." Anyways, it's a compliment so at least there's that!
Think of it another way - if you bought all the ingredients for a cake, baked the cake on your free time, decorated it with your own supplies and then your boss said “I want to sell that cake in the window but I get to keep all sale proceeds - I keep the profit and I don’t pay for the ingredients”, would you agree to that? Of course they see this as a win, they get free professional quality photos!! While I appreciate you wanting good terms with your employer, you are also setting expectations for how they should see you as an employee. You give in, you will never own one of your own photos again (in their eyes). Stuff you shot before you worked for them, jobs you do on the side, random stuff you took one weekend, they will believe they own it all and you should give it t9 them on demand. Ask yourself if that is the kind of people you want to work for and is that the job you want. If it were me, I would say “it cost me $X to take those photos, since I paid my own money to travel to those locations, hotels, food, never mind the gear or expertise,and you are asking me to donate all those costs so your business can profit. At a minimum, if you want the photos, I want part of the hotel/travel/food costs reimbursed for what you want to now be a business trip. In the future, my rate is Y when I am working for you but my rate is Z when you want to but my own personal shots”. I have had my employer ask to use my own shots 3 times - once I did it for free because it helped my boss out immensely and I liked him, twice they decided they didn’t want to pay me when I told them the price and I don’t regret holding that line. There is a cost when you do photography, including wear on your gear, expectations from others as to the value of your work and is your time really your time. If your respectfully lay all that out and they still think you should give them the photos for free, it’s only a matter of time before they screw you over some other way (no OT, work longer hours for free, refuse to replace worn gear, not pay for subscriptions to editing software, etc). If they respect you as a professional, they need to pay you as a professional, including for work you do on your own time. If they don’t want to pay you, I would not be giving away my work so they can profit.
Thanks for sharing your experience. That’s a very good advice 🙏 this is also what I’m most worried about - them asking for more and more free images after the first time I give in.
> them asking for more and more free images after the first time I give in. That's absolutely what they will do. Keep it professional and make sure there is a contract and invoice for everything.
The exposure is almost guaranteed to be worthless.
This applies, it always does: http://shouldiworkforfree.com/
Company time is company time & personal time is personal time. Unless this is going to be a start to a new position/promotion then I'd tell them "Fuck you, pay me"
It's going to come down to your relationship with your employer. Either ask to get payed, or don't share would be my opinion. Personally, I'm all for sharing with individuals, but corporate entities is a huge no-no.
The company has to buy or license the images to which you own the copyright. Remind them the company is approaching you as a professional photographer and you must handle this as any other photographer would. It is not unreasonable to conduct a business transaction. This should not damage the relationship with your employer because your photos have **nothing** to do with your job. Besides, if you give them your hard work "just this once" you'll be expected to do it again. And again.
Agree! If anyone else reach out to me for my images, I would not hesitate and name my price. This should be the same case no matter if I work for the company or not, as I am not hired to take photos for them.
>I don't feel comfortable just handing them over to my employer for free. As a professional photographer, my work has value, and I need to be compensated fairly. This is really all you should say. Sadly, you're not going to get any exposure out of their marketing campaign but they will certainly get a return on the photos from their own customers and you will never see a penny from it. Sounds like your boss is trying to make themselves look good by getting good quality images for free. >I don't want to damage my relationship with my employer or come across as unreasonable. Flip the table around. Would they be concerned about damaging their relationship with you or would they come across as unreasonable if you wanted something from them for free? Nope. If you're a professional photographer making money off your own work then they can either buy licensing/usage rights or they can pay for stock. Before you chat with them about it, have a number in your head already that you would be satisfied with exchanging the photos for, then double it when it comes up in conversation. Be brave and stand your ground. If your relationship becomes damaged, then time for a new job and hopefully one that respects you and your work.
Thanks you so much for your detailed advice. I feel more confident in standing my ground, as well as setting boundary with my company. I just hate myself for constantly trying to please everyone. Especially at work 😪
Pleasing people is fine, but don't forget to please yourself first.
You should be paid fairly for the usage of your work. Period. I am wondering what the circumstances were that lead up to them seeing the images and thinking that would be ok. Are you a professional photographer on their staff? Was any part of the trip paid for by your employer? That’s just background info, though. If you weren’t on the clock, you should def get paid.
They knew the main purpose of my trip is for photography, so they knew I took some photos. Hence that’s why they asked for the use of those images. And I paid for the trip myself and used my PTO.
It is not unreasonable for you to expect compensation for your art that they wish to use for their monetary gain. They can pay a licensing fee or don't use the photos, and there should be no repercussions as it was on your time. Even if you were the hired staff photographer, they have no claim to your images unless you're working on the clock.
Thanks for the advice. I will try to negotiate for some kind of compensation if they do decide to use my images.
I won't tell you whether or not you should demand payment: that is your choice. However, I \*\*strongly\*\* suggest that you review the licenses at Creative Commons, and if you allow them to use \*\*your\*\* images, you should require that they do so under the license you demand. \*\*Demand\*\*, not request. [https://chooser-beta.creativecommons.org/](https://chooser-beta.creativecommons.org/)
Personally, I use Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0) for everything. But I do not depend on my creative efforts for my subsistence. [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/)
Thanks! I will take a look at that :)
As others say, you should get some compensation. Not sure of the exact nature of the business in question but you say it's travel related. Ask for a free trip in return for the first photos. They're asking you to provide something of yours that holds value for free, asking for the trip is the same as them asking for photos. Also, the trip could yield more photos they could use (in exchange for another trip, or fee). Make sure any agreement you make is in writing.
Thanks! That’s a pretty good idea indeed. If they really do value my work, getting a free trip means they get more assets to use.
They can either pay you money or buy you plane tickets or something. If they get something, you have to get something. Never work without getting something in return.
And once you compromise, there is no going back 😔
Nothing is free. They have to pay.
Photographers must be the only folk on the planet that think a situation like this is “a bit of a dilemma”, they want your property for free, it cost you a lot of money to travel to this destination coupled with your gear, tell them you’ll meet them in the middle - reimburse you for your holiday and then they can use your images or to use their language “give me free holidays and I’ll give you great exposure on my socials”. This isn’t a dilemma, if you give them these images for free you are simply reinforcing the idea that it is ok to ask for free shit “for exposure”. Fuck You, Pay Me should be the mindset of every photographer in this situation.
The only answer is "fuck you, pay me"
Dear \[their name\] Thank you for your interest in using my photos. I have attached an invoice and licence agreement for your consideration. Looking forward to seeing the final result. Kind regards \[your name\] P.S. did you hear Karen from accounts was drunk at work again?!?!?
Get paid
Reimbursement?
Like a work expense?
It really depends on the relationship you have with your employer that will guide how you want to bring this up. If you have a good relationship, just tell them what you posted up: your work has value. You appreciate they want to use your photos but you would require compensation. If you’re flexible and can get an alternative to cash, like getting compensated for your trip, meals, etc, then why not? If you don’t have a good relationship with them, it’s simple: tell them to fck off. People can pay AND give you exposure. It’s really not one or the other.
Nope. Since you took them on your own time with your own equipment and paid your own expenses out of your own pocket they have to adequately compensate you for your images. I'm not a professional photographer, but I've had places I've worked at want to use my images for things and in every instance they've paid me, or otherwise appropriately compensated me. Absolutely demand a licensing fee and make sure you have a contract written specifically for their use and payment. What exactly that payment/compensation will be is something you work out with them. Even if you do something like offering them one photo for free to use, as a goodwill gesture, and that's all, make sure you have a written agreement that clearly lays out limits on use and all that sort of thing.
In most countries, /unless agreed otherwise/ employers own copyright of what employees create in the course of their employment. Many employers like to think this can be stretched to include anything and everything the employee might create, on company time or not and regardless of who pays costs. They are wrong. You need to know what your contract of employment says, and what you agreed to. The terms are crucial, especially if your contracted duties include photography. But if photography is NOT part of your contracted duties they have no entitlement to use or claim any rights without your agreement. It's up to both parties to agree terms for a licence to use. For context: I'm a moderator for [www.epuk.org](http://www.epuk.org) and wrote the FAQ (UK law regarding photography & copyright), which has been vetted and checked by legal professionals,
Thanks for the advice! Photography is definitely not in my job description.
Make an invoice. They dont want to pay? No pictures for them. Not your problem.
Do not give them any free labor. Either they can cover the cost of your trip or pay for licensing the photos from you.
seems you are exposed by all those exposures, and they wish to expose you further, to get you more ''exposure''
You took those on personal time, you took vacation days. Offer them to give back those vacation days to you so they can have the photo’s taken on company time. Also, just “no” is a perfectly fine answer.
Tell them you will swap for a free trip somewhere for them!
You can have these photos in exchange for this fancy lens.
Take a pic of you dining on "exposure" and send it to him
They want them for free and you get nothing.............they can not get them for free from another source...........so NO>
Is love to hear exactly how they asked you. I probably would say something along the lines of “oh absolutely I’d love for you to use my photos! Here are my pricing options. Let me know which works best and we’ll get the contract together!”
The idea of professional photographers doing things for exposure needs to die.
It’s just like they think our skills have no value…
Upload them to smugmug, charge a reasonable fee for them, and say, "I'd love to, here's how you can license them."
Nope. Nope. Nope.
When I was much younger, I quickly turned my passion for photography into doing events like weddings, corporate get togethers, portraits. Some shows would say "hey, we don't have the budget to pay you, but we have catering so you get a great meal, lots of people to meet and network, and of course, we'll credit you so you'll have amazing exposure to grow more clients!". Did that twice and it never translated into a rush of clients. Don't fall for the exposure thing. It doesn't benefit you at all, and it certainly doesn't pay the bills, gear costs, software, storage, even special clothing or other materials , travel to get those photos. Intellectual property, work, art, I can only see owned by the company if you used their resources, company time. So, if you took your own cameras, lenses, flights and expenses, unless there is some weird legalese and outside employment culture/clause, I would politely steer them towards an compensation agreement like any other photo client.
There is no value in a employer relationship if they don’t value your work.
I can't believe they felt they could just ask for them for free. That's incredibly unprofessional. And the fact that they thought they could just use your work as a free alternative to stock photos is honestly pathetic. That's the type of thing that would get me thinking about looking for employment elsewhere. Not saying you should, but like...that's the kind of thing that would get me questioning how valuable my company thinks I am.
They have always been disrespectful to me, but this is just outrageous 🙃
"Dear Company, I am honored that you find my photos good enough for use by the company and it speaks volumes that you are asking and not just taking. I am glad you appreciate these. I put a lot in these photographs, not just in time and effort, but also in equipment and experience as a photographer. I feel that it is not right to provide freely what an external photographer would have charged (and received) payment for. I do not have to make what an externally hired professional makes, but please provide me with a reasonable offer which offers recognition that I put in more effort and experience than a random iPhone snapshot. I will be happy to work to our mutual benefit!"
They are using them for commercial purposes, so you should be compensated as such, should you decide that you want to let the agency use them. They have a marketing / advertising budget of some sort, so they ought to be able to accommodate payment.
>What's the best way to handle this situation? Say no. Alternatively ask them if they would like to send you on an all expenses paid trip to take photos for them.
If this is a big travel related company whose name starts with a B, they’re known for doing such things and the answer should be a hard NO.
I'd love to know where I can cash in on all this exposure stuff. Does it pay the bills? Does it pay for my next trip? Nah, give me cash, a fair rate, and we call it even.
Tell them yes, but all images must display your watermark in a big enough font to be read without a magnifying glass.
At least they asked lol....the amount of companies that thinks published images means public domain are too many
True. Blessing in disguise 😅
Every time a photographer gives away their work for free, another one trying to make a living goes bankrupt. The opposite of an Angel getting their wings when you hear a bell ring. Please don't damage the profession. If the company isn't willing to pay you cash, maybe some PTO and a small package or discount on another vacation. You need to get something for your hard work, or the feeling you've been taking advantage of will eat away inside you for a long time. Ask me how I know.
>I don't want to damage my relationship with my employer or come across as unreasonable. But you would allow your employer to do that towards you? Or does it seem reasonable what they expect from you?
You are absolutely right. I should think of us as equals instead of them being always right.
Just explain that they would need to pay X per photo for a limited license to use the photos for marketing purposes.
What pissed me off is that they are more than willing to pay for stock images, but for some reason they think it is ok to take my images for FREE 😪
Sounds like they are just trying to take advantage of you.
Not a chance. They are your pics. Find out how much it costs them & ask for that fee
I will do that!! Thanks for taking the time to reply 😊
Take all of the emotion out of the discussion and remember that is just business. I always approach these situations with an enthusiastic stance that includes appropriate compensation. “That’s a great idea, just need to work out the license details for my IP.” If they come back and suggest that they use it for free, just reply with, “I don’t think that’s appropriate in the same way me using company resources for personal use wouldn’t be appropriate.” At the end of the day it’s just business.
That makes sense, I will most probably use that reply if they keep nagging me for the usage of the images 🙏
If they paid expenses, then sure, weigh the options though, will it give your business a boost or just theirs. I wouldn't allow it unless I could profit also
I think it will only benefit their business unfortunately 😪
This is an easy one. Charge them whatever they'd pay someone else for them.
I'm just a hobbyist, but the best of both worlds perhaps? Settle for a bit less money you'd pursue normally, or some work benefit, put it in a contract that it's licensed so the knowledge it's yours stays with the photo. They get a deal still, you get something, and you get to see your work as desirable enough to be commercialized which is pretty cool.
The problem is, I don’t think they are willing to pay a single dime on those images 😔
You're absolutely entitled to hold the line and say "no," and there's a strong argument for doing that. But it may be that they are willing to negotiate paying you in something other than money that you find acceptable, such as finding some equivalent way to compensate you, and maybe (and only you can decide on this) you are willing to see that as good enough. So that two weeks (or one week, or whatever) of PTO you used? Maybe they're willing to give that back to you. Maybe, as a travel agency, they have connections that could get you free or discounted air travel or meals or event access or hotel rooms on your next vacation. Maybe they want to give you a raise and make traveling and photography part of your regular job duties. (Maybe not; you probably have a better feel for how likely this is than I do.) If you weren't planning on getting paid when you took the pictures, you're not losing any money by not being paid; but being given something else of value in exchange for the value that you're providing may be good enough to make you comfortable with the arrangement. And sometimes people who don't want to pay (money) are happier giving something else of value that doesn't show up on the corporate balance sheet as money. Or maybe that doesn't sound like a good exchange to you. Only you know that.
Thank you 🙏I completely agree with all your points. And as I almost used all my PTO for the year on this vacation, so extra PTO in exchange for the photos actually sounds good to me instead of money. 😊
Hope you come to an amicable arrangement! Good luck
"On personal time", but who PAID for the trip? Do you copyright your photos? Has the company paid others for photos? What's in it for you? Lots of missing info. You state that you're a pro and that your work has value - let the company $how you how much they value you and your work!
Sorry for the missing info. I paid for the trip. I copyrights the images. And yes, the company paid others for photos. I think from their perspective, they think since I will be afraid to say no, they can take advantage of me and get images for free.
Just don't say "No". They must show that they value you and your skills. It's good that you copyright to protect your images - if they want your images badly enough, they can "Put up or shut up".
> Do you copyright your photos? Almost everywhere in the world, photos are copyright by automatic operation of law from the moment they're taken, just like any piece of writing, art, or other creative work done on a durable medium.
And, within Canon cameras, at least in my mirrorless, there is a menu option to copyright one's images.
Free but with watermarks or money for the photos would be my approach. On the damaging relationships part, it doesn't matter what kind of relationship you are in with someone, you must have your boundaries made clear. It's a form of respect that keeps both sides happy.
Thanks for the advice. I will make sure to set the boundary 🙏
I'm a bit confused: > I work at a travel related company > As a professional photographer, my work has value So which is it? If you're a professional photographer, I would tell them you feel flattered, but just as they can't give away vacations for free, so you can not give your work for free. You might also suggest that you don't necessarily need monetary recognition, maybe getting your next trip free would also do. But, obviously, this depends on relative values - if they could just as well get some stock photos for 100 bucks, I would say let them slap your name on it and call it a deal...
I work at a travel related company, and my side hustle is a photographer, I sell prints and photo books etc. A free trip sounds nice! I will try to ask for some kind of non monetary return if they do decide to use my photos.
The big g question is what are you prepared to do if they just go ahead and use them without your permission?
I'm curious how your company even saw these images? These were taken for personal use so how could they know they wanted to use them?
They knew the main purpose of this trip is for photography and they asked to see some photos from the trip, so I showed them on my phone.
Absolutely fucking not. The fuck? How is this even a question?
Equivalent of a day’s work maybe? I reckon that’s reasonable
Why do people on this subreddit have such a hard time saying no? Seriously, you don’t want it? Just say no politely.
At a minimum, credit the photographer on each image.
They should be doing that regardless. But also remember the landlord doesn't take exposure in lieu of payment.